31 ~ Self-Discovery Through Solo Travel with Heather Markel

Tune in to hear how Heather Markel ditched her desk to travel full time.  She shares her journey from corporate life to a nomadic existence as a travel coach spans 39 countries, revealing the profound allure of wanderlust and the rewards of listening to her inner calling. 

In our conversation, we delve into the realities of solo travel, particularly for women, exploring themes of self-reliance, cultural immersion, and safety. We offer insights into the lessons learned and resilience gained through traversing unfamiliar territories alone, from forming global friendships to navigating bureaucratic hurdles. 

Heather's experiences serve as a guide for those dreaming of more travel. Join us as we reflect on the pursuit of personal freedom, authentic living, and the profound impact of following one's passions with unwavering determination.

In this episode, you will learn about:

• How Heather ditched her desk  to travel full time. 
• The joys and challenges of full time travel.
• Insights into solo travel, highlighting its challenges and rewards, especially for women, including self-reliance, cultural immersion, and safety precautions.
• Exploration of the transformative power of travel in shaping identity and worldview, with Heather's experiences serving as a testament to the pursuit of authentic living and the fulfillment of desires.
• Reflections on the profound impact of listening to one's inner calling, embracing change, and living true to oneself, offering inspiration for those seeking transformation and self-discovery through travel.

Connect with Heather:
Website: https://HeatherBegins.com
YouTube: https://youtube.com/heathermarkel
Strategy Call: http://TravelLifestyleStrategy.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/heathermarkel
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/fulltimetravelersandnomads

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Desire is Medicine. We are two very different women living a life led by desire, inviting you into our world.

Speaker 2: 0:16

I'm Brenda. I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life. Motherhood, relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within.

Speaker 1: 0:32

I'm a middle school teacher turned coach and guide of the feminine, and I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and hopefully the highest version of me. I don't have children. I've never been married. I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate, as in some down and low shady spaces. I was the epitome of tired and wired, and my path led me to explore desire. I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Even after decades of inner work, we are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious. We believe that listening to and following the nudge of desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.

Speaker 1: 1:12

On the Desires Medicine podcast. We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire, piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire. Welcome everyone. Hey, brenda, so happy to be with you here once again.

Speaker 2: 1:33

So good to be here with you, Catherine.

Speaker 1: 1:44

Today we have the lovely Heather Markell. Heather does full-time travel and business. She's a full-time actually a New York Times featured full-time travel and business coach, who is herself a full-time traveler. After more than 25 years stuck behind a corporate desk, heather quit her corporate career in 2017, expecting to take a six-month career break to travel the world. Instead, she found her calling and, more than six years later, she's been to 33 countries on six continents, including being marooned in New Zealand two years during the pandemic. She's now a TEDx speaker and a best selling author. Heather helps her clients to transition to the full-time travel lifestyle by teaching them the fundamentals of affording, sustaining and adapting to the lifestyle, so they can ditch their desk and discover their destiny through full-time travel. Welcome, heather.

Speaker 3: 2:38

Thank you, very excited to be here.

Speaker 1: 2:40

Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for being here, and I'm just going to say that Heather is. You can't see her and we're still not doing video guys, so you won't be able. We're not sharing this, we just do this video so we can see each other, but she's always smiling. And I say always based on the two times that I've seen her, or three times that I've seen her in person.

Speaker 1: 3:02

I had the lovely pleasure of meeting her this January at a networking event. It was actually a business event, but I'll call it a networking event to keep it simple and at these events you're just kind of chatting and getting to know people and what do they do, and usually I meet real estate people and you meet investment people, tons of investment people. I mean, this is New York City, and then I'm speaking with Heather and she starts to tell me that she literally travels the world, but not in the. I'm a trust fund baby and I travel the world. Or I'm a teacher and I have two months off, and so I'm here and there no, no, no, no, no, no off, and so I'm here and there, no, no, no, no, no, no, like she literally is living, not out of a suitcase. She's living in another country and then from there she doesn't come back to like home base. She goes to then another country and then another country.

Speaker 1: 3:56

And I thought to myself this is absolutely fascinating on so many levels. I thought, oh my God, this is a woman who is following her desire. I said we have got to have you on the podcast. I can't wait to tell Brenda that I met someone that is living this way on purpose. It sounds almost like something I would see on CNN or, I don't know, the Disney channel. There's a certain layer of almost fantasy, as if I can't grasp it in my little brain as reality. How did it even come to be for you? How did that desire bubble up in you? Do you remember?

Speaker 3: 4:37

Yeah, so I lived with a French host family when I was 16, family when I was 16, and I went kicking and screaming and speaking high school French and I came out of that month fluent in French, having, like, really, I had my first alcoholic beverage, my first real boyfriend, like you know, and and was really embedded in French culture, fell in love with cows Cause that's something you need to know about me I love cows and when I left, I think that's what seeded this idea of not just traveling but immersing in cultures. And so instead of doing that, I mean the closest I got to that actually at the beginning of my career was I worked for British Telecom and because of all my at that point I spoke six languages and had, you know, a lot of travel under my belt. They made me the joint venture liaison and I just started my career with them like boop boop, just bopping off to different countries and making relations, like it was sort of my dream job. And then in the world of telecom there were mergers, acquisitions and unfortunately that didn't work out. So I was transitioned to a different company and my job became very domestic and I realized as the years went by and I was kind of trying to get this, you know, the pension, the benefits. I married the wrong guy for me. I was just like I felt like I was going after all of these societal accomplishments that I would get. And then I'd be like, well, why am I not happy? Like I got this, I got married, I got promoted, I got the you know, but something's still missing.

Speaker 3: 6:27

And it was great when I, when I came back from my what I thought? Because I really thought this was a career break and when I came back from the first leg of it and realized it was more, I found a journal entry from I don't know five or 10 years before, where I had written something like what, if I quit my job and did what I love most, which is traveling and meeting new people, I wonder what my life would be like. It was something like that and I was like ooh, goosebumps, you know. And I unfortunately waited until, you know, for 10 years. I kept talking about you know, I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to go. You know, take this break. And that would be every January I'd say that and every December I would realize I hadn't done it and I'd get more and more depressed as the years went by, and then, you know, january would come back and I'd start up again, except in January of 2017 that I didn't bounce back and I started. Instead of being depressed for a week, the depression lasted into January and then my heart started hurting and I realized you know, I've had other physical pain in my life that I didn't act on. That became a real serious health impediment and I'm not letting this one do that to me. And that pain is what made me commit to finally quitting, which I did later that year.

Speaker 3: 7:54

And, like I said, I went into this. I really thought I was doing it for maybe six months and as I was doing it, I just realized, wait, I love what I'm doing right now. Why on earth would I stop? And then I asked myself that question and I mentioned in my TEDx talk that I really just it came down to saying you know what? I've been living my life with this idea that that travel revolves around the work I'm doing. And I'm just curious, if I spin that on my head and I revolved work around travel and just look at my life completely differently, how could I do that? And that's what really opened the door to me entering and sustaining this lifestyle.

Speaker 1: 8:40

I mean it's just mind blowing. You talk about how it tilted on its head and I mean, when you talk to me about it, I feel like I'm tilted on my head. It just it's so upside down, but yet so perfect, right? It's so wild to wrap my head around that. I mean, brenda, is it easier for you? Am I like the odd person here? Does it make? I don't know? I feel yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:03

I love how intrigued you are about this, catherine. I really do. I love your curiosity and your turn on about this, and it is pretty unusual for people to travel in this way like you are, heather, and so I just love what you're bringing here and I'm so no, it's not crazy. I think it's like a really different way to live and it's not crazy. I think it's like a really different way to live and it's so cool.

Speaker 2: 9:26

And I really what I heard in your share was someone who wrote this journal entry all those years ago and then you kind of forgot about it and then you went out on this path thinking you know, oh, this might make me happier, this might make me happy, like doing all the things that you thought you were supposed to do, which we really, as women, I think we all have some version of that story.

Speaker 2: 9:49

I know I do, and I just love your version of it. And I was also intrigued when you said something was still missing. Like something was still missing and then it manifested for you with a longer depression and physical pain in your body, and it is painful to not have what you want in your life and it is painful to kind of go against yourself in those ways and you don't see it until you see it, and it feels like you really listen to your body there and I'm so curious because I'm thinking about you finding this journal entry and it's like and where you wrote what if? What if I quit my job and traveled the world? That is so inspiring, it really is. And my question for you is like wow, you've got the travel bug, woman, and it's so beautiful. And I'm so curious, like there's something in your soul that gets fed from this travel and I am so curious to hear that.

Speaker 3: 10:54

Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting that you say that, because when I was researching for my TEDx, I learned I didn't think about this. You know, we as humans used to be hunter, gatherers and nomads, so really it's wired into our souls to do the life that I'm living. So I think, for me, what, what lights me up? Is it? Just it does feel like it's part of me. It feels like travel. You know my look.

Speaker 3: 11:22

My parents took me, I think, my first international trip. I think I was two and I lived. Well, I, I lived, oh, I lived in New York, but anyway, my parents took me with them to the Canary Islands and apparently I had jet lag and fell asleep like face first in my spaghetti after ordering dinner, and you know. So travel has always been a part of me and I remember when I was maybe five, my parents took me to Canada and I was using some thing in the playground where you like, you're spinning around or something, and this, this kid was there, with his father maybe, and said something to me and I knew it was not English and I was like I just looked at him and and somehow I understood that he wanted to turn on this thing I was using and so like just these little snippets of of moments where you know, language came in and fascinated me, or being in another place, and you know, just getting comfortable with the idea of travel. And then I knew after I lived, and again I went kicking and screaming into this host family when I was 16. And I, and then I loved the cultural immersion and so I think my soul yeah, I mean gosh since two I've been traveling the world, but travel has meant many different things to go with my parents, and then it was well, travel is this way to immerse in a culture. And then I got to, you know, work in Paris for a year and then it took on a whole deeper kind of perspective. And then travel was escape, right, vacation, escape from this life that I'm not really happy living. So I'm like I'm living my life, for you know the two weeks or the four weeks of the year that I'm not at my finding my resourcefulness about creating new connections, and even I've changed during my travels. So you know, finding new pieces of myself as I go coming. I think manifestation is much more powerful as a full-time traveler than it was when I was, because I guess you just notice when you're especially when you're traveling solo, that you're traveling alone, by yourself, for yourself, and so whatever experiences you're having are very much down to you. And so the power in recognizing that you can create the life that you want. And if it's not quite as you want, you know like well, figure out what you want to change and make that happen, and then the focus you can have on.

Speaker 3: 14:29

I have to tell you like there's been times when it's like weird, and I'll just think out loud or in my head, oh I really want this or I need this. And like one of the funniest examples was I was in Uruguay and I needed a paperclip because I needed, you know, I needed to open my cell phone, the iPhone, and like change my SIM card, and they didn't have like classic stationery stores and I couldn't find one anywhere. And I'm like huh, I don't know how I'm going to do this. And I went on a wine tasting tour and met this lovely family from Brazil and after our day of tasting great wines was over, they left us off at a playground and their nine-year-old daughter went and played on the slide. And you know, I was just looking at the scene and I like looked down at my foot and there next to my foot is a paperclip. I just was like, okay, so you know, it's just fun how life the journey is of travel.

Speaker 1: 15:29

Beautiful. Thank you for all of that. There's just so many places to go.

Speaker 2: 15:33

Right, so many places to go In so many ways Inside and outside.

Speaker 1: 15:41

Do you have a burning one, brenda? Go for it. I feel moved to go in a different direction. I have a. I have a question like an intimacy connection question.

Speaker 2: 15:52

I felt that, yeah, I felt that I just want to say like, okay, let's do it okay.

Speaker 1: 16:09

So part of us as women brenda touched on it briefly earlier we're conditioned, right. We I mean not just women, women and men, we're all conditioned, based on our lineage, our ancestry, our parents, our family, extended family, our school, the people around us, this kinds of thing. But you have this interesting change in that dynamic because the cultural conditioning for you, I am assuming, is different, because you've had so many at this point I think it was 33 countries, right and if it's cultural immersion, that means that you must see change in this arena. I could go so many places with this question, but what I'm going to try to bring it in and just say what, if anything, do you think has been the biggest like oh aha in that arena, like I was raised to see this as this or what I saw was this, but what I really see is that so, and actually actually it's been 39 countries, unless you count.

Speaker 3: 17:15

I went back to South Africa for the second time last year and I'm about to go to Argentina for the second time, but 39 new countries and more countries than that in total. But I think a big aha is around, probably around media politics and perceptions. And I remember in 1991, I was studying in Paris and this was pretty interesting. Actually, I was there during the Gulf War and you know, for me all that changed during the day was if I walked into a bank I had to open my bag and show them the contents. That was literally the only change I noticed, but my friends and family back home were terrified. Heather, you need to come home. We're seeing, this is in the paper. You're in danger, you know, and I'm like huh, that's really odd. You're telling me I'm in danger, but literally I'm not, or I don't feel that way, or you know. So that's when I learned about like media is hyper sensationalizing things that are. I mean, as we know, they sell advertising space, right. So it's really like so something's going on here for me, where that's when I started not trusting news, cause I'm like clearly what they're describing is not quite the experience that I'm having, not quite the experience that I'm having.

Speaker 3: 18:46

Ironically, I went to the Balkans two years ago and went all through the former Yugoslavia and I'm like, you know, while I was in Paris for the Gulf War in 1991, there was a Yugoslavian war going on and I had no idea and I'm like, wow, I was alive then. I was, you know. So there's all these things going on that you hear about or you didn't hear about, and over and over as I've traveled, I've learned our perceptions of a country could be misinformed by a political need to, you know, maybe cut off tourism somewhere. You know, maybe cut off tourism somewhere, and and then you go there and it's just, the people are lovely, like it's nothing, like they said in this article. I don't get it. So I think I've just learned to try and take things a bit with a grain of salt, cause the other thing I learned, like I was in Cape town.

Speaker 3: 19:40

Cape Town is a dangerous city and when I was there the first time, my mother was petrified for me and she had read some article about some woman who was murdered in Cape Town. And when I said, oh, is it this one in this location? She said yes, I said well, just to give you some reference. That's kind of like if you were in Manhattan and I read about an incident in Brooklyn, and you know you thinking I should be worried about you, like it. It just doesn't make sense. And so I learned that, like also, when you have never been somewhere, everything gets lumped together. You'd have no frame of reference for geography. So it's just like, oh, this happened in Brazil, so Brazil is a dangerous country, when in fact it was like this specific location that you know you're not supposed to go, and somebody went and you know this happened. So I just think that's been a big, big aha. It's just recognizing that the world is the world through my eyes is often quite different than the world that I've seen through the eyes of the media.

Speaker 2: 20:52

What a beautiful lesson, Heather. That is really beautiful Gaining perspective about the world, Wow, you know it's funny because I learned that lesson from a different perspective when my son was traveling when he was in his early twenties a couple of years ago. He wanted to go to Jordan. There was something happening at that part of the world at the time and I was terrified. I did not want him to go and we had many family conversations about it and he very beautifully listened and said he was going because he wanted to share and have different experiences about the world and he wanted to video them and show the world in an accurate way. I really respected that. Anyway, he went on the trip. He made gorgeous YouTube videos that I got to watch and the country was so peaceful, the people were so beautiful, there was no war or any danger where he was at all. So I really appreciate hearing this story because I received this lesson from a different perspective. So I really appreciate hearing that. Thank you for that.

Speaker 3: 22:00

Sure.

Speaker 1: 22:11

What came to mind for me was when you said that your view of the world is different than the media's view of the world, and this is sort of me like if I were to go a few clicks back. What I was asking about was around conditioning right Like what is different in the world. When you're out there and you're living it, do you see any other differences? Being like an American born here, as a woman traveling now and I'm going to use the right number 39 countries, some you've visited more than once what would you say has been the biggest lesson around that, around?

Speaker 3: 22:55

being female, a woman traveling alone around the world. Yeah, so this one. I remember at the beginning I was told I was really brave for quitting my job and and I'm like I don't. I don't know you say that, but to me it's like all I did was tell my boss I didn't want to work there anymore and leave. Like it didn't seem brave.

Speaker 3: 23:14

But I would say the journey of solo travel is brave One, because I think, whether you're a man or a woman, if you're going at it alone, I've been having like a bit of a vision quest. You know what I mean, like an adult vision quest where life has thrown situations at me where I was like, are you kidding me? I thought I dealt with this and yet I'm attracting this person again. So there's some of that soul work that goes on, and I think I've seen, also as a woman, women are treated differently around the world, and there are, you know, there are parts of the world where men are conditioned to be more macho, and a single woman is you're going to be hit on a lot, so you do need to be mindful. Uh, I've learned that. You know, safety is very important. So I have a specific set of guidelines I've learned and I just stick to them. Even if I'm in a supposedly safe place, I still stick to them, because why like, why not? Um?

Speaker 3: 24:28

So I think really the the things that come into into solo travel and conditioning maybe. I mean, like I said, I've been traveling for a long time and I studied, I lived with this host family as a teenager and then I studied in Paris and then I you know, that's when I, at the age of like 20, I was when I learned that lesson where you have a whole bunch of friends like you're like, oh, I want to go here, let's go here, and a whole bunch of friends are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go. And then it comes down to booking the travel and there's always excuses. So I've just learned to solo travel very young, because it was the only way that I was going to go and I didn't want to not go. So I think one of the things you have to get used to is sometimes you're eating out by yourself and it could be weird. I remember in Vietnam there were places where I felt like sometimes not all the time, but sometimes at dinner a waitress seemed to be uncomfortable with the fact that I was there by myself, I wasn't, but she was. And then other places I mean man, costa Rica, for example I met hordes of people because I'm by myself and someone at the next table was, you know, wanting to look out for me, and that actually has happened around the world.

Speaker 3: 25:48

So I think, I think, in terms of women and solo travel if I'm understanding your question correctly I mean it's, it's we may be warned about it, or people may think we're weird or lonely or all these connotations it's the same way media is misinforming us about travel. I think also we're misinformed about solo travel. Frankly, yes, as a woman, you have to take precautions. You just do If you. I always ask if there's a zone or place I should not go. Is it safe for me at night? And if not, I'm just in by nightfall and and then it's the.

Speaker 3: 26:35

If you're in a country like dating is a big thing. I think it's really important to understand the difference in dating cultures from country to country, because you may inadvertently give a sign of interest that you didn't mean to If you you know, so really pay attention to like what kinds of things show a guy that you're interested and don't do those things if you're not, and then I think part of it is also cultural acceptance. It's like well, you know, if I don't want to be hit on and I don't want you know these behaviors from men, I probably should avoid these countries like that. That may not that you know, and as we see around the world, I think women are speaking up more and more. So I think behavior is slowly changing. But whereas the US I think we've had a revolution around that I think other countries are way behind us Right now.

Speaker 3: 27:43

You may have to handle things differently. I mean, I had a situation in I don't like to mention specific countries because this could happen anywhere but there was a country I was in where I felt inappropriately hit on by a man who was a bit aggressive about it and he happened to work at the hostel I was staying at. So I didn't know what to do and I knew that if it came down to it, it would be his word against my word and I had no proof. So getting the police involved would probably be futile in this country. So I went to the tourist office and explained the situation and I said did I? So I went to the tourist office and explained the situation and I said, did I, was I being silly? Did I not understand a cultural cue? And they said absolutely not, like no, you, you should not have been treated that way, and you know, and they helped me handle it.

Speaker 3: 28:33

So I just think it it's. It's a journey that both requires prudence, but also it's it's that's where I feel brave is when I look back and I'm like, wow, like I went through South America for six months by bus by myself. Huh, like, like that. At some point that seemed crazy to me, like the idea of I remember a male friend of mine saying you want to take the bus from like Mexico down to like the tip of the Southern tip of Argentina, argentina. And I'm like that's crazy, and um, and now I'm like, oh yeah, actually I did some of that, so so it makes me more proud of myself and feel more accomplished.

Speaker 1: 29:16

Thank you so much for sharing that story. It does sound brave to take a bus through all of South America, oh my, okay. So how about, with this desire and this travel, this many countries? I'll switch the connection piece. How about friendships? Like, do you just make friends in every country? Is it that you're FaceTiming your friends you know in the States? Like, how does, how does your I want to call it nourishment your vitamin, nourishment vitamin, get filled?

Speaker 3: 29:54

So friendships are interesting. Look, I never expected to be traveling full time this long. Expected to be traveling full time this long, and so what I found is, yes, I've pretty much made new friends everywhere I've gone, and, in fact, when I go to Argentina next week, I'm I already reached out to these two lovely women that I met in Calafate, which is in the south of Argentina, when I was there in 2019, they're from Buenos Aires and we've already discussed getting together. So it's lovely to know, like, even though we haven't been in touch every day, that I can reach out to them five years later and be like hey, I'm coming to Buenos.

Speaker 3: 30:30

Aires, like are you guys around so? So that's lovely and I think it's a there's a beauty to friendship when you travel this much, and a sadness. So as I meet all these wonderful people, I also have to say goodbye to them, and that's my choice. So you know, I can form great friendships and then, you know, cry when I leave, and then you know, and then time goes on and you know, and then I make new friendships. So there's this like happy, sad element goes on and you know, and then I make new friendships. So there's this like happy, sad element and then part of the one of the things that happens too is friends that you've had for many, many years back in whatever you consider home. The longer you're away, the more those friendships shift. So what I mean is some friendships just become a little less close because you used to talk on the phone three times a week and now you're not talking. You know you're talking twice a year. Other friendships fade because you're just not around to nurture them, as you said. And so you know, you maybe each have different expectations of what nurturing a friendship looks like and there's only so much you can do when you're traveling, and then still other friendships become closer or more great, because there's this support and love for what you're doing and you know you each love and support each other for the journey that you're on and whatever you do, you'll keep loving and supporting each other and those friendships, I think, get even closer. So that's the myriad of it, and I think in between I mean I do have a couple of friends that I have a weekly call with.

Speaker 3: 32:13

That I've been doing for years, I mean since long before I started traveling full time, and I've stayed. I've kept to those calls. During the pandemic, when I was, you know, stuck in New Zealand, but very fortunately that's why I try to use the word marooned there I definitely had more of those weekly calls because it was wasn't going anywhere and it was nice to see the familiar faces. So but I also think I don't I don't have too many calls because now as I'm traveling because the other thing is it's I like to be out in the world that I'm in. So if I'm on calls all the time with people, then it's going to keep me from meeting those wonderful new people. So yeah, there's a sadness and a joy. I think that comes with the traveling and friendships.

Speaker 1: 33:03

Thank you so much for sharing that, Heather. What it had me think about was family. How does the intimacy or connection stay with family? Is it just that they're family? Is it a weekly call? Does it look different?

Speaker 3: 33:19

So in my case, I have a very tiny family and I have aging parents, so I have stayed in touch with my parents with usually a weekly call or a Zoom or something like that, and now that they're getting more elderly I'm actually kind of checking in on them more and around them a bit more. So whereas before I would have been traveling for, you know, 10 months at a time, now it's going to be between one and three months at a time, because I can't, it doesn't feel right to be away as often. So, uh, so that connection is how you know it's time and space and whether I'm in the time, same time and space as family or not. And I try to bridge that gap with with technology and unfortunately technology isn't always the right means, depending on where somebody is in their life.

Speaker 1: 34:17

Yes, Thank you. So thank you so much for being so honest in that arena. I think that we could all agree that connections, whether connections and intimacy, are always finicky, and adding the travel piece right and it also changes the cadence of how often you can connect with someone that those things factor into how close we are or aren't with someone. I want to know what culture or what cultural immersion would you say was your favorite of all time. I think this is hard to answer because I'm assuming you have more favorites, but which one is either your favorite or were you like wow, I'm so blown away, I'm so surprised.

Speaker 3: 35:10

That's a great question and I may have to ponder that I think, well, I really loved Argentina One of the reasons I'm going back uh, I've. I met a lot of beautiful women who were just out for like, keeping me safe and and taking care of me and making me feel nurtured as well, and I loved being in. I went to some just crazy random remote places in Argentina that I ended up meeting someone and traveling with them for a month and going places I'm sure I would never have gone otherwise that just aren't on the map and so there's no English spoken, and so getting to practice my Spanish and just have these beautiful in the moment conversations with people that are just curious about where I'm from. So I love that about Argentina. I think New Zealand is full of beautiful people who it's a country I've never been helped so much Like. Do you know in America? I don't know if you've ever.

Speaker 3: 36:18

I'm sure you have had one of those conversations where you have some weird crazy problem with a credit card or your driver's license or something that involves bureaucracy somewhere, and you call the 800 number that's on the back of the card and you get told that they can't help you. You need to call over here and then they can't help you and lots of finger pointing and transferring. Like three months later you still haven't worked it out because you still haven't actually found someone that can just do it. Well, it's too ceiling when I have these problems. I one of them specifically was around a driver's license thing and, like I had this woman, I practically wanted to hang up on her because she just was like, okay, wait, let's, let's see if we can come up with more ideas. And she spent like 10 or 20 minutes with me trying to strategize have you tried this? Have you tried this? What about this? I was just flabbergasted. So that lovely think outside the box and, you know, try something different approach and the willingness to be there and not just sort of view you as a pain in the butt but actually want to help you.

Speaker 3: 37:27

I think it's a lovely part of Argentina. I should mention also another thing. I'm sorry that was New Zealand. I should mention also another thing. I'm sorry that was New Zealand. I was just thinking another thing that I love about Argentina. If you love Malbec, like I do, I have never seen a poor like they do in Argentina, like for you know, $4 or something you get. This like. They feel like the whole glass there's. It makes me think of, um, what was the show where Monica from friends she did this other show for a while and she had that big wine glass that basically you could dump the entire wine bottle into, and it's like, it's sort of like that. You know, it's this giant glass of wine that you get for you know four dollars, and so I love that about Argentina. I love that about Argentina, and let's see Africa too is fascinating in many ways when you kind of see there's this place in Cape Town.

Speaker 3: 38:21

I loved, in 2019, where there was this community. It was in one of the most dangerous parts of town and yet all of these. It was this really cool street where, like, there was a restaurant and a bar and, uh, the free walking tours that they did there were there. There was like, basically, this whole community. I would eat at the restaurant and he would. If he would run out of wine, he'd go get the wine from the bar across the street and you know they had, so somehow they worked out like I would pay him but he would deal with with the bar, and then, uh, there was these guys that sold the best jerky I've ever had of all different varieties, and you know they would. They would all work together. And then there was a weekly food fair and the restaurant would let you sit in his tables and chairs. Even if you were eating food from a food vendor that wasn't anything to do with him and he got no money from it.

Speaker 3: 39:18

So just that idea of community, I think, and I've seen that in other places, the spirit of community that works in very different ways that I've seen and I'm sure in.

Speaker 3: 39:32

Look, I'm from New York City, which is a huge city. I know there are neighborhoods where I'm sure people come together as a community and I know that even in my community it's the same. When you go to the same places over and over, you often get known and you see things that you didn't notice from afar. But because I'm always traveling right now I'm not seeing it in my own city. So I guess I pay more attention to how people treat each other in other places and that's part of what makes me love some of these cultures is the ones that are really helpful. But to be fair, I mean I have found everywhere I've been like beautiful people and helpful people. So when you ask me that question, it's very hard for me to to pick a favorite, because I've had favorite parts of numerous countries that I've been to. Probably every country is a favorite in some way, so it's hard for me to answer.

Speaker 1: 40:31

That's such a beautiful response. Thank you so much. I'm going to see if you allow us to go in a little deeper here with a deeper question for you. So, here on the Desires Medicine podcast, brenda and I often talk about how it's our belief that desire carves us, into the people that we're becoming, carves us and to the people that we're becoming. If you could speak to the version of you in 2017, seven years ago, when you decided you were going to do this, if you were the prophecy, the angel prophet, saying to that version of you hey, this is X, y and Z is what's in front of you, and you will be this on the other side, what would you say?

Speaker 3: 41:23

That's another profound question I think I would say in front of you is a landscape that you get to create as you want it, and there will be some tough times when you don't realize that you can create the landscape and you're just experiencing the landscape or being victim to the landscape. And when you learn how to recreate the landscape the way that you want it, what lies ahead for you is this amazing empowerment that you'll be able to recreate your own life and help other people do the same for theirs and offer the inspiration and the wisdom that comes from that experience.

Speaker 2: 42:22

That is so beautiful, such a beautiful metaphor for life. I'm so curious. I have so many questions. We're going to have to keep you forever.

Speaker 3: 42:34

I'm free until the end of the day. When I make so curious, I have so many questions we're going to have to keep you forever. I'm afraid I don't have time to say when I make my flight.

Speaker 2: 42:37

Great. That last question Catherine asked was exactly my question and I'm wondering if you can even go deeper with that I'm so curious about, because you've had this desire. What is something that you've learned about yourself on the journey? You've talked about many things here. I feel your heart opening with the beauty and the sadness, and learning about the world and being brave and picking up on cultural cues. There's so many things and I'm just so curious. What have you learned about yourself?

Speaker 3: 43:12

So one of the big things. Actually, I've even even look, as much as I learn, I also still wrestle with self things, right. So, and one of those came up actually just recently, so before I left. I mean, I know that I was very rooted in what other people thought of me and use that as a reason not to do things. What would somebody think of me if I did this? Oh, you know so, and now I think, throughout my journey, I've seen a lot of me wrestling with choices because I somehow get overwhelmed by someone else's desire, their desire for me to choose something other than what my desire wants to choose for myself. And you know it still happens.

Speaker 3: 44:07

And sometimes, when I'm, you know, like have to be in you know a city I know well, for longer than I expected to be, that starts happening, and so even like it's it's silly, but once again I was, there's the landscape, I can choose to go wherever I want. And I booked a flight. I just recently, like booked a flight to Mexico and I'm like I'm starting to plan it and looking into it, and the more I'm doing that, the more I'm feeling like I don't know if I want to go, like this just isn't. When I, when I look at people's YouTube videos and I and I understand what the experience I can expect here is this, I don't know if I want that experience. And then I'm looking at reasons maybe I shouldn't go, and I got into this frenzy until I finally said, maybe I don't want to go there oh my gosh, maybe. And I and I think the the 2017 me would have probably stuck it out and just be like, okay, well, you booked the ticket, so just go. Just be like okay, well, you booked the ticket, so just go. And this time I was like, nah, I'm going to go to Argentina.

Speaker 3: 45:20

So I think just being the awareness of when I'm not connected to myself and trying really hard to do the personal work to reconnect and then figure out what do I want is is something that I both struggle with and that I've learned. It's a process I've learned. So, before I might've said, oh, heather, like nice little girl, yes, yes, dear, you know, it's nice that you want that, but you've already chosen this path. Now I'm willing to say, whoa, hold up, something's going on here. Let's honor that, let's look at that and let's pick a like, make a different choice, and I don't think I allowed myself to change my choices before and I give myself permission to do that now, and it feels so much better.

Speaker 1: 46:15

So normally Brenda asked this question, but I'm going to jump in and ask because we're sort of winding down here. We'd love to keep you forever, but we're not going to do that. We're nicer than that. We don't really hold people hostages all the time. Thank you, you're welcome. What is a big desire of yours?

Speaker 3: 46:38

Right now, a big desire of mine is to meet a had the courage to do over the past six plus years. I'd love to meet a man who's done his own work and, you know, is ready for an adventure where we can, you know, be the best versions of ourselves and be even better than the best version of ourselves and bring that out to the world.

Speaker 1: 47:15

I love that. Thank you so much for sharing my pleasure. What, if anything, do you would you like to say? Is there anything left unsaid here today? Is there any closing thoughts for you?

Speaker 3: 47:29

You know, I reached a point right. I mentioned earlier that I spent 10 years wrestling with this idea and this desire and not taking action on it. At the end of 2017 or early 2018, I, you know, I had finally committed to do this and I realized and I said to one of my friends. I said I know that if, if I don't quit this year 2017, that after all these years of trying and not doing it, next year, I'm going to go the other way. I'm going to start giving up this dream. Don't go. And I'm going to start making peace with my choice to not do it.

Speaker 3: 48:24

And I felt nauseous as I said it and I knew like one of the things that propelled me to do this was this idea of I would never. I kept seeing myself like, if I don't do this, I'm going to. I could see myself being 90 and looking back at my life and still wondering with regret what might have happened if I had had the courage all those years ago. How would my life be different all those years ago? How would my life be different? And so I would just say I'm so grateful to myself for allowing my future, 90 year old, to be able to look back on her life with pride and know I made something of my life. I followed that passion. I did something and I have like 100,000 photos on my iPhone to remind me of, like you know, all these crazy, amazing places I've been in, these experiences I've had, in these people that I've met. That would never have happened if I didn't take that first step.

Speaker 2: 49:24

That is so beautiful.

Speaker 1: 49:25

Thank you. It always starts with the first step. It does. Brenda, do you have any last thoughts?

Speaker 2: 49:31

What would you say to someone who's listening and like, wow, I could ditch my desk and travel the world. What would be your? Because you have an amazing YouTube channel and we'll drop that in the show notes and we'll ask you before we go where our listeners can contact you. But what would be your number one tip to people who are listening to this and going, oh wow, I could do this?

Speaker 3: 49:56

I. My tip would be do it and, you know, identify what. Why are you not doing if you really have the desire to do this? I would say number one this is a lifestyle available to everyone. I I've seen so many judgments, you know, especially early on. You know, oh, it must be nice. You know it's good that some people can do this, because there's an assumption that you have to be a trust fund kid or wealthy to live this lifestyle. You absolutely do not.

Speaker 3: 50:26

Yes, you can expect, if you know, on a budget of like $500 or $1, dollars a month, you can expect a very different experience than a budget of five or $10,000 a month. So clearly, but you can do it. Yes, you can. There are certain places in the world and certain ways. You can live this lifestyle on 500 or a thousand dollars a month. It is possible. So challenge yourself to think about what is really holding you back from doing this and what would be a first step for you. And I know that for me, it was definitely the money and not being able to understand what does travel money look like, and I spent a year being extremely frugal and creating, creating a huge, huge padding of savings. So you know, whatever your biggest fear or biggest block is to starting to take the steps for this lifestyle, I would just encourage you to turn that fear into a question and then, because questions have answers, fears do not. So, once you turn that fear into a question, go research the answer and start making it happen.

Speaker 1: 51:38

That was so good.

Speaker 2: 51:40

So gorgeous. Thank you, sure. Do you have any other questions, catherine?

Speaker 1: 51:48

No, I just want to say thank you so much for joining us here, heather. I really it was a pleasure to meet you. Your story feels so special and I'm so happy that you came on to share it. I just feel honored to know you and to have witnessed someone to be living such a it feels like so generative life.

Speaker 1: 52:10

Like as an outsider looking in, yes, I have so many curiosities. I'm like, oh my God, this just blows my mind, the ability to do that and at the same time, it's like, wow, here is a gorgeous example of a woman really backing her desire, of a woman living her desire and you said this phrase today of you get to ask yourself like, where are my resources? And I thought that was so beautiful. It's like you get to be with the spirit of community and back yourself all at the same time. So I can't say enough. Thank you so much. We will definitely, in the show notes, put all your links in there. I'm sure people will have questions. They'll be able to see your TEDx and all that other stuff. Yes, thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 3: 53:01

Thank you for having me. It's been a real pleasure and, yeah, I'm happy to be in contact. If you want to reach out to me and ask me questions or, you know, set up a call. I'm happy to talk to you about how you can start this lifestyle.

Speaker 2: 53:20

Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast.

Speaker 1: 53:29

Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others.

Speaker 3: 53:33

You can find our handles in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.