013: Dream Paths // Time Doesn't Work Like That Here

This is a special episode featuring Lauren's brother Josh, a life-long skeptic turned seeker. He recounts a recent dream, where he believes he was visited by the spirit of their late brother Ian. The conversation  between Lauren and Josh touches on the mysterious ways dreams can help us navigate grief, offering solace and a rare sense of tranquility that lingers into waking life.

This episode of Clairvoyaging is more than just our stories; it's an invitation for you to reflect on your dream encounters and consider the profound connections that may extend beyond our waking understanding.

To find out more about Dream Paths (mentioned at the top of the episode), visit:
https://dreampaths.net/

Transcript

Lauren: 0:06

Way Father Media presents Claire Voyaging Hello.

Frank: 0:14

Hello, hello.

Lauren: 0:17

Howdy-do.

Frank: 0:17

Howdy-do-dee. Welcome to another episode of Claire Voyaging.

Lauren: 0:22

Claire Voyaging, today's episode yes.

Frank: 0:25

As you know, is about dreams. This is part of a new series we're doing. We have the Travelogue series, where we kind of talk about how signs and just interesting things that happen while we or others are going about their daily lives. But today it's about dreams and dream visitations and signs that happen while we're not so conscious. Exactly yeah, this one comes from my previous episode yeah.

Lauren: 0:54

This one comes from my brother, my brother Josh. What?

Frank: 0:59

I don't know. This one comes from my brother.

Lauren: 1:02

Why I sounded so southern. This one comes from my brother.

Frank: 1:06

Give us a background.

Lauren: 1:07

Okay, so this is my brother Josh's story of a dream visitation that he had recently about our brother Ian, who died 19 years ago. As a lot of our listeners know, If you want to hear more about Ian and the signs he's left me, listen to my episode called Travelogue, the Corn and the Orb. So Josh had a dream visitation of him and this is our conversation about it. I just want to preface all of this with the fact that my brother Josh is probably the biggest skeptic.

Frank: 1:42

I know Biggest skeptic.

Lauren: 1:45

Lifelong just does not believe anything. He wants proof. He doesn't believe most stories, astrology. He's like that's not real.

Frank: 1:55

He's a man of science and we respect him for it.

Lauren: 1:57

Yes, it takes a lot to convince him that something is real. So a lot of his beliefs fundamentally changed. When our niece Gwen had her psychic event last year. It was like life changing for him just to hear about. So now he actually believes in that there's something that happens after we die. There are spirits. He was like well, now I believe it, and he has told me he has way less fear when it comes to dying. That helped change his mind about it too, like take away a lot of the fear. So that's what makes this story extra cool, because it's like he is in it in his dream. He's like fully like I was visited by our brother Ian.

Frank: 2:47

Oh, and if you want to know more about what happened to our niece Gwen, you should just start from the top. Go to episode one, check it out. Yeah, and I guess, if you don't know, welcome to Clear Voyaging. My name is Frank, this is my wife, lauren, and we get weird I have. Before we move on with the episode, I have a couple of housekeeping notes.

Lauren: 3:06

Tell me.

Frank: 3:06

Okay, the first one is super boring. Our Buy Me a Coffee site was shh.

Lauren: 3:13

Just kidding.

Frank: 3:14

Buy Me a Coffee was. Our site was down, or at least some of the buttons weren't working. Some of the buttons were invisible. So if you try to give us any support which, thank you so much, wasn't working and honestly I wouldn't have caught it Our good supporter, will G, let us know all about it. Yeah, thank you, will again for being a stand-up panel.

Lauren: 3:35

Again, I mean just a solid fan supporter friend.

Frank: 3:39

Yeah, it's working now Well, except for when I went on earlier today and it was in Spanish. But I think that was more of a personal problem.

Lauren: 3:46

That was a Frank issue. Yeah, he's like why is this in Spanish? Yeah, it took a little troubleshooting, we got it.

Frank: 3:53

It's up now Go to wwwbuymeacoffeecom. Backslash, claire Voyaging, if you wanna give it a look see.

Lauren: 3:59

That's the one, so thank you for your support and your continued support in the future.

Frank: 4:04

One last thing. While we're on the subject of dreams, I wanted to plug my buddy's website that he's building. The website is actually called Dream Paths, so we are naming this series of episodes after the website. My buddy, nate. I've known him for a long time, nate Sigard. He's done a couple of remarkable things, quite a smart gent.

Frank: 4:21

But this particular project he's working on is an online dream journal, so you can log in there. What you do is you basically describe your dream and it uses AI to analyze your dream and create relational metadata, so you can kind of track and find trends in your dreams or you can compare them to the community if you wish to do so publicly. You don't have to, though. Also, the really cool feature about it which is maybe it's just an aesthetic thing, but it uses your dream description to generate an AI image, so it kind of creates like a really cool framed image of what your dream is. You can more easily remember it, so it's not just a bunch of words everywhere. That's cool, it's very cool, it's very cool. So go check it out. The website is dreampathsnet. It's in a closed debate right now, so I think it's invite only, but you can sign up to the newsletter and keep tabs on it See how it's going.

Lauren: 5:08

And if you have a story of a dream visitation or a time you followed your intuition, or a sign that you've received from the universe or loved one that's passed away, send it over to us.

Frank: 5:22

Go to ClaireVoyagingcom and click on submit a story, and there's instructions there.

Lauren: 5:27

Yeah, and with that please enjoy the story of Josh's dream visitation.

Frank: 5:33

All right Ready.

Lauren: 5:35

Yeah.

Josh: 5:36

I'm going to tell you about Josh's dream visitation Josh, josh, josh, josh, josh, josh, josh, josh, josh, josh, josh. So I don't have every detail perfect, because it was a dream. Some things are very and very sure about this. First of all, I've never died in a dream. I've always woken up before I died, and I've had hundreds, dozens of dreams where I'm about to be dead, about to drown, about to hit the ground, about to be shot, about to, about to, about to.

Josh: 6:02

So, in this dream, though, I was in the passenger seat and the kids were in the back and Emily was driving, and then, all of a sudden, I just heard a loud noise, right. And then, after I heard the loud noise, I was standing outside the car behind it, and I'm like, how did I get here? And then I looked into the car and I could see the kids and my wife were okay, but I was slumped over. I'm like, oh my God, did I just die? What are my kids gonna do? What is Emily gonna do? They're gonna have to mourn me. They mourn me, they depend on me. How could they live without me? How could I let this happen? Like, how could this happen? And then, as I'm thinking those things, actually my body was still moving a little bit and as it stopped as it as it like I was still, I saw the me in the car breathing heavily, and as the breath slowed down, this hole started to grow under me, started as like a pinhole, started to grow bigger and bigger and bigger, and I knew that I would fall into it. Now I don't believe in heaven or hell, so to me there's no negative symbology about going down.

Josh: 7:13

So eventually, like I fell in this hole. All of a sudden I was in this like green field and there was no one there except somebody standing off in the distance and I could tell from behind. It was Ian. And as I started to move and walk, I felt like I was floating more than walking and going way faster than I should have. He looked like he was a half a mile away, but I got to him really fast and he turned around and I go, ian.

Josh: 7:46

He says hey. I said I think I think I just died. He said yep. I said what are my kids gonna do? What's everybody gonna do? He said something like that's not up to you or like that's not your concern. Okay, well, how long have you been here? And he goes.

Josh: 8:08

Time doesn't work like that. Here, I'm like what do you mean? I'm like, how long have I been here? Did I just die? He's like, like I said, time doesn't work like that. Here, I'm like, what does that mean? And he goes it doesn't matter, there's no future, there's no past, everything is united here. That doesn't make sense. Like my body is still warm up there. He's like, maybe maybe it's been years, maybe something changed in you. And I said, well, okay, like where am I? And he's like, oh, it's not a place. This is where you want it to be. This was appealing to you. Not that I want it to be dead, but like I said, is this field, is this heaven? He's like, not really. This is what may bring you peace or more comfort. And I said, okay, like are you comfortable? He said, yeah, I'm comfortable, or something like that. I said, like, what have you been doing this whole time? You know?

Lauren: 9:08

That's such a huge question.

Josh: 9:10

Right. And then once again he says time doesn't work like that. Here I'm like where is here? He's like here is everywhere. God, what are you talking about? Are you actually my brother or is this a dream? He's like I'm not sure. And I'm like oh my God, god. And I was like do you miss us? He said something like I don't have to, or something like that, or like almost as if he's still here. I said like we miss you. He said I know, I just started pitter pattering him with questions, you know, because I said are my kids gonna be okay? How can I go visit my kids? You know, if you can visit me, can I visit them? He's like it's possible. He would not give me yes or no answers. I'm like, oh my God, like tell me, have you come to me before? And he said something stupid like what do you think? I'm like, oh my God. He's like answering my questions.

Lauren: 10:02

There's like a riddle.

Josh: 10:05

It was awful in a way. And then I walked a few steps forward and he put his hand on my shoulder and he goes, he goes, he goes, josh, I go, yeah, he goes, don't worry about me. And I said, but my kids, my family, how would they live without me? And he said like there's so much more than that, they'll be fine, you'll be fine, let it go. And I'm like I can't. I need to see them graduate, I wanna see them get married. I can't imagine how Desi and Julian would get along without me. And he just said don't be afraid, it's gonna be okay. And then, like in my dream, all of a sudden I felt peace. Yeah, I like didn't feel as afraid. And because Ian seemed so happy and because he suffered so much before he died and all this stuff and he was in such a good spirit, I felt like that I that it's okay. And I turned around and he was gone. And then I woke up.

Lauren: 11:03

Oh my God. Yeah, it's almost like he gave you a little piece of what it's like. He's like okay, you're curious about the other side, so like I'm gonna give you the tiniest glimpse.

Josh: 11:20

Right, but not answer any questions.

Lauren: 11:22

Yeah, I can't like and that's breaking a rule or something.

Josh: 11:25

Yeah, People call it cheating, I guess, if they tell you too much, yeah, but how weird is it that my brain, which is a panicked brain, allowed me to stay asleep after I died that?

Lauren: 11:39

doesn't ever happen.

Josh: 11:40

Like my body, my physical body, takes over, wakes me up and spares me from the trauma. But it's almost like my mind knew that in the end it wasn't gonna be trauma and it let me deal with it and go through it for the first time ever. And then, after I got through that bad part, I got to see Ian. So it was like almost like my mind knew that, like, even though this is really scary and your heart rate's probably really high in real life, like there's something else in store for you or something, because you know people don't at least most people that I know rarely die in their dreams and I've never died. I've also never seen Ian in a dream for a long time anywhere that on the edge of my bed, right.

Josh: 12:23

So it was really weird. It wasn't even nothing was familiar. The car wasn't familiar, the street wasn't familiar, nothing was familiar, nothing was mine. I had no memories of this field or this like crashed into a wall somewhere that I'd never seen before and it was like all new and it just didn't seem like it came out of my mind. It just seemed like it was more than that. It was really crazy and I'll never forget it, all the answers that I gave you, that he gave me like. None of them aren't exact, but it's the gist of what it was yeah, yeah, the feeling.

Josh: 12:59

He had an attitude of like a shrugged shoulder attitude, like it's okay, like rocks, like why are you so worked up? And I'm like you know, because I'm fucking dead. You know this just happened. I don't want to be dead. Yeah, but he made it seem like maybe it didn't just happen.

Lauren: 13:18

I like in a dream, yeah.

Josh: 13:22

Like I'm like because I remember asking how long have I been here, how long have you been here, and he would always tell me that, like basically your concept of time from the waking world to the living world, it has no meaning here.

Lauren: 13:35

So stop thinking like that, that's so amazing it's also like him putting his hand on your shoulder and saying don't worry about it is just classic, ian, like that was him. Like he was there and like as soon as you said that.

Josh: 13:53

That was like all I needed to hear, because yeah, oh yeah, the don't worry about it part, yeah, the fact that I had so many more questions to ask, that he disappeared. And then that's the he disappeared. And then I woke up. Incredible, that's Like like like why I could have woken up after I chased him for a while, yeah, or after a bunch of other stuff happened, but like he put his hand on my shoulder, said it was going to be OK. I asked another question, I turned around, he was gone and I woke up and I'm like, oh my God, I need to remember this dream, you know. And then I actually fell back asleep and I had forgotten the dream. That night I'm walking around the block with Emily and it just came to me, the whole thing came to me, and I just spit it out to Emily.

Lauren: 14:34

Wow.

Josh: 14:36

Yeah, it was crazy, and I've been thinking about it every day since.

Lauren: 14:40

Yeah, I mean.

Josh: 14:42

Yeah.

Lauren: 14:42

That's like loaded. I feel like it is loaded. I really feel like you got like this little tiny snapshot.

Josh: 14:50

Yeah, I mean just, but I still can't get over the fact that I'm 46 years old and I've never died in any of my dreams and I've been close to dying hundreds, literally probably hundreds of times. I have never been allowed by my physical body to stay asleep and the fact that it happened this one time and Ian was there, it was like two weird to be just a dream, because I don't get to like you, don't get to see that part. You wake up before you die like. Your body and your mind doesn't want to subject you to that like, but this time it did it did?

Lauren: 15:28

had you? Did you see yourself? Because you said you were still kind of breathing, did you?

Josh: 15:33

see yourself stop breathing or fall into the hole before now so. So as like as as my breath got slower, the hole beneath me grew and grew and grew. It started the size of like a pin, and it grew until it was the size of me or bigger, and then I just fell down, but it wasn't a scary fall. I see other weird thing whenever I used to fall in dreams, I would always wake up.

Lauren: 15:58

But I like, yeah, like you get jolted, yeah, so so, yeah, so I float.

Josh: 16:03

When I fell I didn't tell you this when I fell, first it was just darkness and then, from below, I was looking down and below me I just saw like almost like I was falling through a tunnel that was going down, and the dark tunnel opened up into this field and I just like sprung to my feet like there was no, I didn't like get hurt, I just like landed on my feet, looked up and the sky was regular, the hole was gone, it was like it wasn't real. And I still didn't really understand. Like did I just like fall in a hole? Or like you know, like I couldn't, but it's, you know. But as I, as I, as I realized I was dead, I was so panicked but I didn't think about anything. I mean, my first thought was like my kids, my wife, yeah, how, can they be okay, yeah without me, right?

Lauren: 16:54

you know how people get their near-death experiences in real life. Yeah, it's almost like you had that, without the trauma of some kind of event like yeah, yeah.

Josh: 17:06

I mean it's possible, but you know there's. There's nothing more frustrating, though, than waking up and thinking, if that really was a visitation, like why won't you tell me more? I want, I need to tell me more. Yeah, like, like. Tell me, like how you do it, how it works, how do you visit me? Where are you when you're not? How do you get here? Yeah, are you made of physical matter? Are you just like just energy? Like, who are you? How are you? Who you are? Am I?

Lauren: 17:36

can you be everywhere all the time, or like a bunch of different places simultaneously, or yeah, yeah, I mean.

Josh: 17:43

The funny thing is it's like when I woke up, I was thinking to myself, I was trying to put it together. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna have some really good like information about the afterlife or something for everybody, and I and as I went through the dream that went over his answers I'm like, oh, my god, I didn't get anything, I just got comfort. That's it but it but no information. There was no information.

Lauren: 18:04

I don't know. I feel like you did get information, though I feel like the just that idea of like time doesn't exist that way here and like you made this play like this is where you wanted to be. There's a lot of information in there. It's just not. It's not the like factual, hard evidence that you might, I didn't want.

Josh: 18:29

I didn't want, I didn't want evidence. Really I didn't. Anything he told me to me would have been evidence but I just didn't get it.

Lauren: 18:35

Yeah.

Josh: 18:36

I didn't get it. You know he wasn't willing to share and it was clear that he knew, because he had a smirk about him, like you know. You know what I mean. Like yeah, that face would like you don't worry about it you'll learn it all right now, like yeah, yeah, you know like you're gonna be dead, just like me, one day, and I'm like you know he didn't say that, but that's what I'm thinking now yeah, yeah, and it was almost it almost.

Josh: 18:59

He almost had an expression. Maybe I'm reading into it, but like I don't want to spoil it for you, the weird thing is that it was a dream, you know, and if, if my mind wanted to like soothe me with answers, it would have just given them to me. It's in my dream oh, that's so true.

Josh: 19:13

Yeah, you would have created them yourself yeah, but even in my own dream, I was not able to get any answers and I was shocked because I felt like this is my territory, like I'm the master of this of this time, although I didn't know, I didn't know I was dreaming in the dream, I guess so, but still, it was when I woke up having that, having that new kind of understanding that I was in my bed and the fact that you know my mind, which craves answers and hates open-ended questions like didn't even soothe itself with fake answers or anything.

Lauren: 19:46

Did you feel any additional peace after it, or more frustration?

Josh: 19:52

No, I don't feel more frustration. No, I know as much as I sort of knew before about the rules or whatever it might be. I felt very honored actually that he would take the time to do something so intricate. I don't know if the whole thing was set up by him. The dream, the death, I don't know that. If I just the dream was, I did happen to die in my dream and Ian took the opportunity in that kind of dream to go ahead and visit me.

Lauren: 20:23

Or you know.

Josh: 20:24

I don't know. You know, I'm not exactly sure how it worked. I also didn't ask all the questions that I would want to ask. Now I'm like I should have asked this, I should have asked this, but like, yeah, well, like I can't, like doesn't work like that.

Lauren: 20:36

Right, yeah, I mean, yeah, your brain is like swimming with one. If you thought you died then like yeah, there's like so many questions just about your family, let alone like Ian, like there's two different things. So yeah, right.

Josh: 20:53

It was. It was really crazy the fact that, yeah, the fact that in my other dreams I was not dead, I was totally alive and in my bed, in my place of living, and I was in a strange place and a strange car that I didn't recognize, oh my God.

Lauren: 21:08

And yeah, it was really trippy, yeah, wow.

Josh: 21:13

Maybe if I had slept too much longer I would have forgotten, but I almost feel like Ian was going to make sure that I didn't forget this one.

Lauren: 21:19

Well, there's been times where I'm like Ian was in my dream and I have like a feeling like his energy was there, but like yeah, yeah, that was just me inserting him in a dream when it's like feels more profound or like, yeah, really strong than I remember it, no matter when I wake up.

Josh: 21:41

This was the most profound one I've ever had, because I got to talk to Ian for much longer, and usually when he, when he's on the edge of my bed, he says very few, if any, words. He almost looks at me and I look at him and but this time it was such a, it was such like a, like a meeting of two brothers.

Josh: 22:00

You know, like after after so long, and I'm dying to get back in that dream. Now I don't know if I I don't know if I can ever have that dream again, because you know, I mean, what are the chances I'm ever going to be able to die again in a dream Like that just does never happen to me.

Lauren: 22:16

Yeah.

Josh: 22:18

So so I don't know if there's a to be continued, but you know I'm like waiting with more questions in my waking life that I hope to ask if never happened again. But I think it's a lost cause. I don't think I'm going to be able to ask them or get the answers anyway.

Lauren: 22:30

I think that's part of the thing where it like they can't tell you too much or they can't connect too much.

Josh: 22:38

What if people on the other side are like it's, like it's so great here. I don't want you to like kill yourself and let go of your life.

Lauren: 22:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, if they make it out to be like this is the best.

Josh: 22:50

Thing.

Lauren: 22:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you just want to meet them there all the time, then like you, you know, kind of lose sight of your actual real life because you're like this is cool.

Josh: 23:05

I'm going to go dream more. I'm waiting for a day that I see this fictional park in real life and be like, oh, because I remember it really well. Yeah, I remember the layout really well and I just remember the trees and everything really well. Wow, it was definitely daytime too, which was cool, because usually in my dreams when Ian comes to sit in my bed, it's still a dark room, my room, yeah, so, but this time it was bright and very easy to see the details of Ian's face and baggy clothes and whereas usually I don't get those kind of details. So there was definitely more to this one.

Lauren: 23:46

So he was dressed like, like, as if he was 25.

Josh: 23:52

You know what? Honestly, I don't remember exactly what he was wearing, but I know I remember he just had big, oversized clothes, big clothes, like always. Yeah, you know. So you know, maybe I put, maybe I put those on him. Maybe that was some of the things that I did. I'm not. It's probably it could be a combination of two minds putting together that dream.

Lauren: 24:12

Mine and his.

Josh: 24:13

Right, you know what I mean. Wow, it's very complex when you look, when you think about, like, if it really is a visitation, there has to be some of me and some of someone else in there, otherwise it's not a visitation. So, yeah, I feel like that my brain was in charge of some of the details, yeah, and Ian's brain, or mine, was in charge of some of the details, you know. But definitely I tried to fill in the blanks, probably, and yeah, he wasn't allowed to fill in all the blanks.

Lauren: 24:39

Oh my God, that's still like so cool it is. It was really cool.

Josh: 24:45

I've been really actually happy about it since I had the dream, Like I feel like it was a little bit of a reunion and I can sleep more peacefully.

Frank: 24:53

Yeah.

Josh: 24:53

You know, man, Because I had I had been craving a visit from him again.

Lauren: 25:00

He must have known.

Josh: 25:02

Must have.

Frank: 25:09

Thank you for listening. Visit wwwclairvoyagingcom for show notes, merch or just to say hi. If you'd like to support our journey, visit wwwbuymeacoffeecom. Backslash Claire Voyaging. This has been a production of Wayfeather Media.