014: We All Practice Santeria // with Alexis Arredondo and Eric Labrado

Discover the spiritual depths of Mexican folk magic and witchcraft as we welcome Alexis Arredondo and Eric Labrado, esteemed authors, and the insightful founders of City Alchemist in Austin, Texas. We discuss Santería, and the sacred art of divination. Our guests unravel the complexities of these often misunderstood practices and reveal how they infuse positivity into their followers' lives.

This episode presents a tapestry of personal spiritual narratives that chart the course from childhood hauntings to  the importance of keeping a spiritual equilibrium. Listen to stories of healing spaces and souls, understanding the spirit present in all things, and learn how even the act of cleansing one's home can be a sacred ritual. Join us for reflections on life's journey, the intertwining of spirituality with daily demands, and the joy in rediscovering one's spiritual essence.

To buy Alexis and Eric's book Magia Magia: Invoking Mexican Magic: Click here
To buy Alexis and Eric's book Blood of Brujeria: Click here

To check out the City Alchemist shop, book a reading, or take a course:
https://www.cityalchemist.co/

Transcript

Lauren: 0:06

Wayfether Media presents Claire Voyaging. Hey, hello, how's it going? Well, what do you think? I don't know, I don't know anymore. It's fine, we'll say it's fine. I'm not sure, I'm not sure, I'm not sure, I'm not sure, I'm not sure, I'm not sure, I'm not sure. I'm not sure, I'm not sure, I'm not sure, I'm not sure. We'll say it's fine, that's exciting. What's new Frank?

Frank: 0:36

Oh nothing we.

Lauren: 0:39

We both had some wardrobe malfunctions today for some upcoming weddings.

Frank: 0:45

Yeah, I had a lot of nip slips. When you say wardrobe malfunction, that's the only thing I think of.

Lauren: 0:52

That's true, our clothes weren't falling off, or something.

Frank: 0:55

Listen, here's the truth. I fatted out of a suit and Lauren went to a tailor who did the reverse of a tailor.

Lauren: 1:02

So you messed up my dress a little bit.

Frank: 1:04

We're not going to out anybody.

Lauren: 1:06

No, we're not. But man, some material was just getting ruffled and we were mad.

Frank: 1:14

Material and feathers. This is our complain cast.

Lauren: 1:17

Yeah, here it is.

Frank: 1:18

Hey, lauren, yeah. Any updates.

Lauren: 1:21

Yeah. So here's this. We'd like to thank our newest supporter on Buy Me a Coffee. What yeah? Gargantua Jones-Borb Jr bought us some coffees. Thank you, gargantua.

Frank: 1:40

Gargantua supporters like you.

Lauren: 1:42

If you want to support the show, go to buymeacoffeecom. Slash clear voyaging and we'll give youa shout out, just like we did for Gargantua.

Frank: 1:51

No matter what your name is.

Lauren: 1:53

Okay.

Frank: 1:54

What else is up?

Lauren: 1:56

We had some fascinating guests with us this week, I think.

Frank: 1:59

We did.

Lauren: 2:01

I think you are just plucking people straight from your favorite podcast, one of your favorite podcasts called the Night Owl Podcast. I am yeah, we had Sarah Reeves and this time we've got two more guests that are featured on that podcast. But if you don't know what the Night Owl Podcast is and you like investigations surrounding haunted locations, check it out. It's like we're just pitching this podcast and the host doesn't know about it. We might as well tell them. By the way, we've been like selling your podcast pretty hard, but anyway, they do deep dive investigations with mediums and people that do house cleansings, witchcraft, stuff like that, and featured pretty often on that show are the guests that we have. For today's episode. It's Alexis Arradondo and Eric Labrado, who are founders of a shop in Austin, texas, called City Alchemist. Yeah, they are. They are co-authors of two books which they will discuss, and they have tons of knowledge surrounding Santoria, witchcraft and Mexican folk magic.

Frank: 3:07

They taught us a lot.

Lauren: 3:08

They taught us a lot.

Frank: 3:09

I don't know.

Lauren: 3:10

I didn't know what any of those things were.

Frank: 3:12

Yeah, I'm in the dark, Lauren's in the void.

Lauren: 3:15

Very, very. It's so dark I can't see. But yeah, they taught like I think there's a lot of assumption around things like Santoria. Or if you hear the word witchcraft, you just think it's bad. Or if you heard like Mexican folk magic, just not knowing what something is. People have a bad connotation with things or like stay away from that. But they're lovely, wonderful people and they like we had a nice time talking to them and we learned a lot, and we hope you do too.

Frank: 3:49

Enjoy, gentlemen, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having us. Absolutely yeah. Usually with this thing, we just ask everybody to introduce themselves in your own words and just give us a little background on how you got started and in what your current expertise is.

Alexis: 4:09

Okay, my name is Alexis Ardondo. I'm from South Texas originally and kind of grew up with, like the legends of South Texas, the stories of witches and healers known as Granderos, and I grew up about 30 miles from a very famous healer known as Don Perito Jaramillo back in the early 1900s and so very much enamored with that ever since a very young age and then it just kind of never went away and wanted to know more about it, eventually starting to learn the practice of good under the small healing as well as Brughidia. And then I met Eric in 2011-ish here in Austin and we realized that we had very similar ideas of the way we kind of grew up and the things that we enjoyed about spirituality and magic and started City Alchemist for a few books, and that's kind of where we're at now.

Eric: 5:03

That's awesome. Yeah, so my name is Eric. My name is Eric Lombarado. I grew up in El Paso, texas. I share a pretty similar story to Alexis. My family, specifically my maternal side, my mom's side kind of raised me in this sort of like folk practices like Curandidis, moe and Higisidia, and I was really encouraged to explore, to develop, I guess, just learning more about these sorts of things and guided by them as well. Yeah, like Alexis said, we met in Austin and wrote two books I think it's the first book, they're the first books on English regarding Mexican folk magic and we started City Alchemist in 2020.

Frank: 5:53

That's awesome. And just for anybody who doesn't know what is the City Alchemist.

Eric: 5:57

It's a metaphysical supply shop here, based in Austin, texas, so we sell things like candles, incense, tarot. We have really good readers there and we just try to be a resource for the community, specifically cater to all sorts of traditions. So we're pretty eclectic and we like to kind of help people find their path. If we don't know the answer, then we probably know somebody that will guide them to.

Frank: 6:24

That's awesome, and I know what the City Alchemist is because I'm a fan of the Night Owl podcast. I've listened to every single episode and we just recently interviewed Sarah, who is an amazing person. I know she's not necessarily on the show anymore, is that right?

Alexis: 6:39

Correct, yeah, she left Right now we're actually doing this really cool thing where we're bringing in like guest mediums. So it's really cool because it's not just having mediums who like hit on things, but also like trying different mediums out and see what each one picks up. Oh, that's cool, and we'll get like one medium who picks up exactly like one thing and then this other medium comes in and picks up the exact something of something else, and it's been really, really fun.

Lauren: 7:03

That's like a puzzle piece, like I'm sure there's like missing pieces, you know, from one medium to another. That's cool.

Frank: 7:10

It's really cool.

Lauren: 7:11

Yeah, and just to clarify, we're talking about. Sarah Reeves who was our guest on episode 12. And she's amazing.

Alexis: 7:20

She's good people.

Lauren: 7:21

Oh yeah.

Frank: 7:22

Yeah, yeah, definitely, and I expected just to have a nice conversation about as normal as this kind of stuff gets, and she ended up like teaching me a lot about myself and I was not expecting that, but maybe I should have. You guys are both familiar in Mexican folk magic, is that right? Are you both of Mexican descent?

Alexis: 7:42

Correct. Yeah, Like Eric was saying, we're the first. Our books are the first books written by people of Mexican descent in English about the practice of Mexican witchcraft. As far as we know, there are other books out there, a lot of Mexican witchcraft in English, but ours is the first by people, basically people of Mexican descent, as well as the practice of how to actually do it, not just about it or like a scientific study. So the first one is called Machia Machia, invoking Mexican magic Machia is just the Spanish word for magic and then the second one is blood of Lujia, and that one is more painful magic. They call it a painful magic text, which we never intended to be when we wrote it.

Frank: 8:29

Okay, so this is a good jumping off point. One of the reasons why we created this podcast in the first place is because we have a younger family member who started having undeniably psychic experiences. We noticed, in kind of managing that, that there's aren't a lot of resources out there and, having grown up Catholic myself, the amount of fear surrounded by any of these topics is it's potent, and I want to make sure that we're in a place where we are educating our listeners and making sure that we're dispelling some of the negativity that these practices don't necessarily deserve. So I mean, I just I went to New Orleans recently. They're so into voodoo and I noticed that you know what voodoo isn't actually all of that a bad thing, but, like, if you ask any bit about voodoo, like your, your, your normie out there, they're going to be like, hey, don't even talk about that stuff. And I know.

Frank: 9:18

Same thing with Santaria. I have a, I have a Cuban background, my dad is from Cuba and that's a four letter word as far as they're concerned. And I want to know, like, from your perspectives, what is the, the Mexican folk magic, what is the, the Mexican folk witchcraft? And like, what is Santaria? I know that's a loaded question, but make this not scary for people Like read our book yeah, yeah, without giving no spoilers, no spoilers.

Alexis: 9:46

Um, I mean, I know Eric can definitely talk on Santaria. He is a santero, so he can definitely speak on that. Um, as you know, we're both from the border, so we understand this, because it's a Mexican magic is just part of our culture. A lot of people don't even realize they're doing it. To be perfectly honest, the same people that would probably say it's evil or it's you know, stay away from it, are the same people that are pretty much practicing it.

Alexis: 10:09

You know, we had people growing up that would cleanse our cleanses each other with eggs or they would um certain things like putting a rosary by the bed or putting a rosary in a glass of water or things like that, and not realizing that that is Mexican folk magic. It's not just something that you know we do because we saw it in a movie or something like that. It was literally passed down generation to generation. So, um, folk magic, I think, is the biggest way to look at it, or what we call itchisera. It's like folk magic because it is something that is passed down generation to generation, something that's passed down from person to person, even like, oh, you know, take an egg and cleanse yourself.

Alexis: 10:49

Or, um, you know, put this thing over the door, the saint over the door, and it'll keep you protected. Or, um, oh, your, your daughter won't, you know, can get pregnant or won't have a boyfriend. Hang same Anthony upside down and and she'll find a boyfriend, you know. And people do it, not because it's, you know, dark or archaic, but it's because they, they'll try it, They'll bring it to try anything. So we always tell people you know it's funny like many people will be 100% Catholic or Christian or conservative, but when the time comes they'll come see us, right, yeah?

Lauren: 11:25

It's not how it is, yeah.

Alexis: 11:27

The same way in New Orleans, I feel the same way in Haking, boatoo and a few other traditions, but when it comes to Sancturia, I mean, and Mexican magic as well, eric, I'd love to hear what you have to say about that.

Eric: 11:37

So I personally feel that practices like Sancturia Mexican ground that is, most specifically, help us navigate a chaotic world. So we are given and we understand within these systems that we are not the only ones um inhabiting this, this world. So we have deities, we have spirits, ancestors, earth spirits as well, that are all on different levels of elevation, understanding and development. So, with Sancturia, coranderismo, coranderismo, mexican folk healing, it allows us to really be aligned with our authentic selves, right, and helps us be directly on our path, meaning that we are living out our destiny, right.

Eric: 12:36

So if you strip away everything in Santirya specifically, we're really looking at, are we living to our fullest potential, right? So in Santirya, you are in alignment with certain energies, certain deities, which we call Orishas, right? And these energies, these deities, they protect us, they remove things from our path, they help us manifest things that are within our destiny, and I would say the same thing applies to Kudanvadi's more as well. It helps us align our body, mind and spirit so we're able to, just like I said at the beginning, really navigate this chaotic world. Just a little bit of help, you know.

Lauren: 13:22

So is Santirya considerate. I really don't know very much about it at all, is it?

Frank: 13:29

Oh, hold on, Lauren, doesn't practice Santirya.

Lauren: 13:33

Oh, no, oh, here it comes.

Frank: 13:36

And she doesn't have a crystal ball.

Lauren: 13:38

Are we?

Frank: 13:39

No, but she had a million dollars. But listen. Oh, my God. I wanted to make sure I brought everybody down a little bit yeah.

Lauren: 13:48

yeah, I'm sure you don't hear this song. They're exploded very often, right.

Frank: 13:53

Continue, please. Yeah, we hear it all the time.

Lauren: 13:56

Sorry, he can't help himself. I'm sorry about him. So is it like more ritual type stuff? Is it more on like a religious like? How would you categorize it?

Eric: 14:09

That's a really good question, I think. Personally I cannot speak for everybody, but I would think about it or I would probably term it the spiritual path, spiritual practice as opposed to a religion. I mean, it is definitely a religion in its own right because we do have a corpus of it's not really literature, but it's an orally transmitted belief system, basically right. But the reason I feel like it's more of a spiritual practice is because it really helps us develop a relationship to again our authentic selves and our connection to our personal deity, our personal orisha. So we become protected, like I said, protected by them. But rituals should not be happening every day. These are usually when we want to bring certain elements into our life, whether it's a fresh start, a business, children, et cetera, right. So that's why we would implore those style of rituals, yeah.

Frank: 15:11

Is there an California like American version of an orisha? Is that something that is there like maybe another term for that, that is, I don't know more translated to like Catholicism or people of Christian faith or Judaism or anything else? Or is that just California? I say California because that's a good question. Yeah.

Eric: 15:33

I think, if we had to, maybe and this is just me speaking I think if we had to maybe compare it to something, I would probably compare it to an angel.

Lauren: 15:46

Okay, Okay, okay.

Frank: 15:49

That's what I was looking for, cause that's kind of what it sounded like to me.

Lauren: 15:52

Yeah, I was going to ask cause like.

Eric: 15:53

It's pretty complex, though, right? Orishas are ancestors. They're elemental spirits. They're kings and queens. They've lived on this earth. Some of them have, some of them haven't. There's just a. They're in their own category, okay.

Lauren: 16:09

Are they separate from? Like your spirit guides, like your spirit team is that, or are they kind of in that category so they're separate Like? Are they specifically like assigned to you, or can everyone kind of talk to the same Orisha?

Eric: 16:24

So good question Believe it or not? We believe. Before you come and incarnate on this world, in this world, you actually choose your Orisha. So even you two have personal Orishas, okay, and they are discovered right. And divination, we don't guess, we don't assume. This is why this spiritual path, this religion, is quite strong, because everything is done via divination. We have to find out first, there's no guessing.

Lauren: 16:51

And how do you do that?

Frank: 16:53

Yeah, what's the? What are the common divination practices?

Lauren: 16:55

Yeah.

Eric: 16:56

So there's, there's three common types of divination within Santeria you have at the, you have Ifa, which is kind of its own class right. Most commonly employed would be Ifa or, specifically for me and my house, myile. We would use Kauri shells, which we've called, we call Delogun right. So that is Oracle using Kauri shells. What kind? Of shells. Yeah, kauri shells. If you look at it you're like, oh, I know what that is. Yeah, yeah, you've seen them like on surfer, like surfer necklaces, things like that.

Lauren: 17:32

Oh, okay.

Eric: 17:33

And then the last form of divination would be called Ogi. In Santeria we specifically use coconut to four pieces of coconut to ask yes or no questions, but specifically to understand and you know, see who your Orisha is. You would use Delogun or Ifa.

Frank: 17:51

Man, you guys grew up with shells. It sounds like I had a magic eight ball and it's just not as cool yeah. No, that's cool, yeah, usually breaks half the time.

Alexis: 18:02

Have you ever watched somebody doing like Delogun or Ifa? It's so intricate and complicated that you're just like, wow, this is like a form of divination that very few people will actually know and know how to do it correctly, and it's nothing. Any divination you've ever seen, really not even tarot cards.

Lauren: 18:18

Yeah, I was going to ask how separated are, like tarot cards versus the shells. Very, very separated, so so separate, like not even close, cause. Yeah, it seems like anybody can learn how to read tarot, but this sounds really complex.

Eric: 18:35

Yeah, but even tarot is very. Yeah, but tarot is actually very complex, right, it depends on how far you take it.

Lauren: 18:41

Right, do you have one, orisha?

Eric: 18:44

So in Luku Mi, santaria, we have one Orisha, that is, we are initiated to, but we would have, technically, a mother and a father, right? So there's female and male Orishas and it doesn't matter what your gender is or anything like that. You will always have two male Orishas. So if me, for instance, I'm initiated to the Orisha Oshun, which is female, so I also have a counterpart to that which is male, and that would be Ogun. So technically you can say two, but even if you don't get initiated, you will have one.

Eric: 19:24

Oshun has seen a lot of popularity within the last couple of years. She's definitely a complex Orisha. Typically, when people start understanding and start reading about Santaria, they come to associate her with the river, sweet things and by honey, vanity, beauty, love, sexuality, et cetera. Right, you got the good one. Well, the more you develop within the religion, you understand that they're complex, just like we're complex. So we have many faces. Right, we walk many paths. So Oshun is also a warrior, she's also a business woman, she's also a mother. So these Orishas, it's better not to think of them so one dimensional, because they have, again, many sort of paths. Oh, this is very interesting.

Frank: 20:13

I have never heard of any of this.

Lauren: 20:15

No, me neither. It's very fascinating.

Frank: 20:18

Again, growing up in like a split household where I'm definitely more white than Cuban as far as like culturally associated, I always got like I've heard of throwing shells. I didn't know what it was called, but again like the context was always pretty bad. When does this dive into what everyone is so associating with darker stuff? What's the darker end of this that everyone is so afraid of?

Alexis: 20:43

Well, when it comes to Sanctadia, it's mostly like one of the biggest stigmas. I think or thing that people shy away from is that it does require animal sacrifice for ceremonies and rituals.

Frank: 20:54

Got it.

Alexis: 20:55

But when we see that, immediately we think of 80s, sectanic panic and all these portable images in the doorhead. We don't think about the fact that if you go to McDonald's your chicken nuggets were going to be a whole, but there are hundreds of chickens spread on a line where their heads cut off really quickly. Yeah, obsessed that's a great point.

Alexis: 21:16

Whereas if you ever actually do watch a Sanctadia ceremony, the chicken is cared for, it's fed, it's given water, it is actually bathed ritually, it is killed ritually, blood ritually and then eaten, thank you. So if you think about it from the perspective of like, if you go to the store here, there's hundreds of chickens ready processed for you. If you go to a place like Nigeria, where the tradition of Sanctalia comes from originally, they don't have that, so they have to literally grab a chicken, kill the chicken, process the chicken. But in this tradition, let's kill the chicken, offer its life to our deity, because without them we cannot continue, and then we are also gonna eat that offering as part of our ceremony. So I think that that's where we probably see the biggest like darkness aspect of it. And then, of course, just like any other African traditional religion, there is a witchcraft in Sanctalia. There is witchcraft in these traditions as well. There's like there's a witchcraft in every community. Pretty much all over the world there's some form of witchcraft.

Frank: 22:24

And that's funny. So we're just making dinner here and we're just also thanking our Aresha. This makes sense.

Lauren: 22:31

That makes sense where yeah, where, like one story follows another and like it grows into fear, like you hear, like they're doing this, and then it's like, well, that's scary, and then you don't know about it, you don't learn about it, and it's just becomes this like Fear of the unknown.

Frank: 22:50

The classic, as usual.

Eric: 22:51

And I think also as well, you touch upon something that Sanctalia and these traditions that are developed in Africa are very secretive because you have to be initiated to participate. There is no outsiders coming in and participating in certain rituals. You would have to have received something to see something or to engage in something. You have to receive something first before you can see how that ritual is done, so everything is very secretive. It's an it's it's initiatory based right. We have our elders who have been passed along these oral traditions for many, many, many years generations.

Frank: 23:30

Okay. Yeah. I mean you're supposed to be baptized in Catholicism as well.

Lauren: 23:34

Well, I mean with Reiki, you're supposed to have an attunement.

Eric: 23:38

Like someone is the one that like gives you, you know, access or whatever, like, yeah, that's we would say the same thing, probably at Mexican Guaranda de Eastmore, to some extent even Hechicidia, which is like magic and sorcery, and Brujitia as well, which is which crops. So you see this, you see the same thing. It's passed on from generation to generation. That's why these traditions are called living traditions.

Lauren: 24:02

Right, eric, does all of your family practice or like. How does that work as far as like generations go, or like with you specifically?

Eric: 24:11

Specifically in Santeria I am the first one of that knocked on the door, as they say, and went in right For Guaranda de Eastmore, Hechicidia, brujitia. I do have family members that practice as well, like I'm sure many Chicano, mexican-american and Mexican people have had family members somewhere down the line that have practiced.

Lauren: 24:35

Are you? You're a medium too.

Eric: 24:37

Yeah, Alexis and I are both mediums, Are you both? We're both states. Yeah, Alexis is very much one as well. You know there's different types of mediums and my I come from a family that are mediums as well, so I grew up a lot with mediumship in my family.

Lauren: 24:54

Oh, wow.

Frank: 24:56

That's awesome. I mean it sounds like you came from a family that is more open to this type of thing. Did you have any like negative connotations you had to work through when you were growing up with your mediumship ability, or when did your mediumship ability actually present itself?

Eric: 25:12

For me specifically, one of my first memories, to be quite honest with you, is the same spirits, and I don't see them anymore, but I can see them in my mind's eye and I can feel them and I can get messages directly from them. But really, my mediumship probably started about my development. I should say probably started about 15 years ago. I lived in San Antonio for a while San Antonio, texas, and there's a lot of stuff that goes down in San Antonio, oh, really. So I started learning from people there. Yeah, anywhere there's a large Hispanic Latino population. There's some stuff going on. What about you, alexis?

Alexis: 25:53

With me my mediumship. Definitely as a kid there was some weird stuff here and there, sensing stuff I didn't even know I was. I found out many years later that I was grown. I did grow up in a haunted house and was always this one area Like. I was always afraid of this one room, which oddly enough, was our room where we kept all our toys. But I was always afraid of that room. And then I found out many, many years later that there was a spirit that was usually seen there.

Alexis: 26:20

So never really encouraged, I didn't get the like oh yes, be a medium and you can see spirits or anything like that is growing up, not for my parents At least. I did have an uncle that did kind of practice a lot of these traditions, but very, very quietly and privately. Then, as I continued, it wasn't until about 2003, so about 21 years ago or so, that I started connecting with Mexican folks known as Santa Muerte, very popular Mexican folks, and that's kind of how I started developing more of my practice with Brujería, echicería and Curandabismo and then from there my path just kind of continued even more so until now and now I'd say in the more recent years has my medium hit a higher level working with the podcast, working with clients, with students even, and then doing readings and things along those lines and helping people on those aspects. That's definitely how it's expanded more these days.

Lauren: 27:20

Oh, wow. So it's like, yeah, it's been developing.

Alexis: 27:23

It's been a journey, because I've even found like I think it was until about maybe three years ago I've always used cards, not tarot cards. I actually used Lotharia cards like Mexican bingo cards, Because I grew up playing Mexican bingo with my family and so I would see these cards consistently and I kind of started developing a connection to working with them as a way of reading, and I find myself using the cards mostly as a jumping off point now. So the card kind of gives me the general symbol and now the messages kind of just kind of flow through. But it was very weird, like maybe three or four years ago, where I hit like a point where I was like, oh, there are no cards in front of me and messages are coming out.

Frank: 28:05

Nice.

Alexis: 28:06

So a continuous development, and then, not long around the same time and I don't know if Sarah recounted the story or not, but she may have told you about how she went through spiritual growths- yeah.

Alexis: 28:21

And these are chaotic, crazy, weird things that I hope doesn't happen to people but at the same time it does, where you basically feel like you have left your body for like a few months and it's really chaotic and hectic and weird and it feels like there's something wrong with your brain. And it happened around summer and I ran into Sarah, luckily, at this event that was like the height of that peak of that sensation and she did kind of like a little quick scan and she was like oh, you're just going through spiritual growth and she had gone through that. She had gone through that. But, like she said, the best I can give you is don't resist, just allow it to happen. Because for her she resisted and it lasted three months.

Frank: 29:07

OK, how long did that last for you?

Alexis: 29:11

About a month, about a month, maybe almost a month and a half, and it is a horrifying, terrifying experience. At the same time, it helps.

Frank: 29:21

I've heard people describing that as shedding veils. I don't know if that's the terminology you use, but you know I have.

Alexis: 29:28

But I love that terminology that makes total sense actually.

Frank: 29:32

And just having to like relearn how to integrate yourself with this new knowledge that you have.

Lauren: 29:37

So it felt like you were just like not in your own body, or did you just feel like really weird internally?

Alexis: 29:46

This is the best way I can describe it. Think about the last time you were at a grocery store and then think about, like, being in the checkout aisle and getting your purse or whatever you need to check out. Now you know how that was a memory. Imagine that, but it's in actual time. So you're there but you're not there.

Alexis: 30:06

It's almost like you were there before, but you're literally physically there. I was literally teaching classes, doing interviews. We did a lecture that day, actually the day I ran into Sarah, we did a lecture at often rich best and I was like literally talking and the whole time I'm on mind, I'm like how am I talking, how am I doing this? Oh my God, this is my saying things correctly, you know. And then at the end everybody's like applauding. It's just, it's a complete disconnect from mind and body. And then Wow, you're like on a higher psychic level and it's it's absolutely terrifying.

Lauren: 30:40

Yeah, to go through that. I feel like I've had that feeling before for half a day or something, but to have that happen for like weeks would be really pretty terrible.

Frank: 30:52

You had stories like this too.

Eric: 30:54

I mean there have been moments where I feel kind of disconnected, but I always kind of like, for me personally, what I do and this works for me is I like to take little like spiritual breaks, meaning they don't really engage like hardcore Right. So I definitely take a break to kind of not recharge, because I'm always recharge where we. We're always recharge, practicing right. Sure, not approaching it so aggressively, if that makes sense. Yeah, that's a harsh word, but yeah, you know, just take a little break here and there and then go back and you'll realize that, okay, by taking that break, going back in Now I'm now I'm experiencing everything with a prep set of eyes and understanding.

Frank: 31:33

That makes total sense to me. I mean, even you know, since Lauren and I have started engaging in our spiritual selves again, they're actually paying attention Like we. I've had moments where I'm like, oh, like I'll meditate a lot one day or like get to a next level of meditation, and the next day I, to a certain extent, feel burnt out on it. Not that I'm not interested anymore, but it's almost like I spent my fuel. I need to like, yeah, keep working on the muscle. That's funny. And I also have a full day of like a feeling very dissociative. I remember one day in particular we weren't together yet, but I was doing a lot of meditating and stuff like that. And then I went to school the next day. I was in audio engineering school and I remember driving to school in Hollywood, which you know, at the time I lived out here, so it took me like 45 minutes to get there. But when I parked I was like how did I get here? Oh God, Is it safe to drive? Should I not have driven? Yeah, yeah.

Frank: 32:29

So I'm assuming that's like maybe that's my experience with that. Honestly, that's spot on. Yeah, yeah, like I don't know how I safely traveled. Yeah the scariest part was so.

Alexis: 32:40

I went through that, which lasts a long time. She had to talk to Elaine Ireland I don't know if she mentioned she did yeah, so she talked to her and Elaine kind of helped her through it. So I had to talk to Elaine and the scariest thing with Elaine was like, yeah, you'll get maybe like two or three in your lifetime and I was like, oh no, I have to go through this again. Oh my God.

Frank: 33:03

Was it when you like felt like yourself again? Was it like a gradual process, or was it like one day, or just you felt you felt good again?

Alexis: 33:11

It was definitely a gradual process. I think the scariest part for me is like I consider myself an open minded skeptic.

Frank: 33:17

We like that.

Alexis: 33:18

Definitely open minded. Very dambly, you know, spiritual, but at the same time skeptical. Yeah, so when things like this happen, I'm looking for the scientific reason and so I, you know, I see a therapist was actually recommend all my students to see therapists and my therapist you know I'm talking about my therapist like well, I talked to a doctor and a doctor says that I'm this may be early signs of dementia and my therapist is like you're not having a real sense of dementia, like even he was like you know, because he was like mental illness, and he was like you're not, you're not mentally insane, like there's. He's like I know, you have, you know, with a therapy for years with you You're going through something spiritual. Just allow it to happen.

Alexis: 34:01

Like you know, your spiritual teachers say and and write it basically so, yeah, it's, it's a pretty intense thing. And then when it was slowly going away, not only is it gradual, but there's always that fear of like falling back into it. So there's like consistent, like like, oh God, I'm going to go back into that space again. So it was a very, very trying time for me.

Frank: 34:25

I assume it feels like having the like rug pulled out of under you and you having to. You know like I've got a job and I have to operate still as a as a human being.

Alexis: 34:36

That was the only. The only good thing about it is, you know, we run our own shop, we teach our own courses and so a lot of our own stuff is all it's all on a spiritual level. So it's okay to be in front of students and be like, by the way, I'm going through spiritual growth, I'm going to be fairly disconnected, and there may be moments where I catch myself or you know, things like those lines.

Frank: 34:54

I mean that's such a nice position to be in. That's such a nice position to be in.

Lauren: 34:58

On the other side of it. Did you notice a big difference?

Alexis: 35:02

I noticed a big difference afterwards. Yeah, but, yeah. But like I mean because that's whenever I noticed like, oh, I don't need cards to get messages anymore, they're just kind of popular stuff, definitely a feeling sensation, feeling things more.

Alexis: 35:15

Okay, it's been a very even like with Eric. When Eric does cleansing this is one of the reasons I love when he does workings he his guides kind of come through and channel messages to give to the person he's cleansing. And that had never really been a thing for me. It was more so just kind of like my guide's telling me what needs to be done and then getting it done. But now it's more so like that, like now they're starting to be like oh, and let them know this or just tell them this word you know and you tell them that word of them, immediately, like tears are coming out of their mouth. So because it's things they need to hear, it's things that come through messages from their guides or their guardians.

Lauren: 35:57

I'm still curious, like how information comes in. You just hear like a word that you're like I'm supposed to say this. You just know that, yeah, I'm getting this.

Alexis: 36:05

Yeah, here's the word comes out. You know, and I know, with Eric it's very different, because Eric Eric picks up on that too, but he also has guides that speak through him. So he will literally get full blown senses and stories and things that he has to tell clients. Wow.

Frank: 36:22

Before I get into this like weird last question How's the shop going? Great?

Alexis: 36:28

Great. We are consistently working. I mean, if you know this, you know you know this just from the amount of times we emailed back and forth we're consistently working on something. We're always adding things and changing things around. One of the reasons we opened up City Alchemist was because oh, we saw this the story, like Eric and I love to go shopping at various like witch shops and botanicas and things like that but we couldn't find like the exact shop we wanted to shop at, so we kind of had to make it our own. That's so nice, yeah, so that's great.

Alexis: 37:03

We made our own prop, you know, and we're consistently adding things. We just we have an online school now that we teach everything from Goendari Sma to Necromancy to traditional witchcraft. We do online courses through our website as well. We have a new class coming up that Eric is gonna be orchestrating on candle magic. We see clients, we do cleansings, we even do candle fixing, which is a little more of a dying art in the community around here, especially, which is basically where you get a 70 candle maybe like, for example, a road opening candle or a money candle and we will add the oils and the powders and everything to it and fix it, so that all you have to do is light it, set it and forget it, as they say.

Lauren: 37:52

I don't wanna mess. Do you ship to California?

Frank: 37:56

I want a candle. Yeah, absolutely Okay, candle fixing.

Lauren: 38:00

Yeah, we do Candle fixing.

Alexis: 38:02

Candle fixing, or they call it velas compuestas is what it's called in like Spanish, or velas is another word which, like, means prepared candles.

Frank: 38:10

So you throw out a term real quick and I wanna make sure, because I what is Necromancy Cause when I think Necromancy. I have played a lot of Skyrim and I'm thinking about just bringing zombies back, so I'm sure it's not that.

Alexis: 38:24

Yeah, I often refer to myself as a modern day Necromancer, and the reason for that is because Necromancy is essentially working with the dead, either through communication or through spiritual interaction. Okay. That's my definition of it, at least. So a lot of these traditions, even like Santria and another Cuban Congo based tradition known as Palo Mayome, and then a Brazilian tradition that we practice which is called Quimbanda these are all Necromanic practices, meaning that they are practices that communicate and work with spirits. Okay.

Alexis: 39:01

When you think Necromancy, yes, your mind immediately goes to medieval times of bringing forth corpses and making skulls and all kinds of things.

Alexis: 39:10

Yes, but modern day Necromancy is more so being able to connect with spirits in all their forms, whether it be a human spirit, an animal spirit, a spirit of nature, and being able to work with that spirit. So, for example, in Palo Mayome, which is very similar to Santria, they have very similar connections. It's just more Congo based as opposed to Nigerian based. We believe that every object, plant, tree, every organism, everything has spirit, and so we have the ability to work with those spirits in order to make things happen.

Alexis: 39:46

So, for example, whenever we need a spiritual bath, we don't just grab some basil and some rosemary and say well, apparently this is supposed to clean you. So here you go, just touch yourself with this bath. We grab basil and rosemary, because those are spirits themselves, and one of them is a spirit of healing and one of them is a spirit of cleansing and another one may be a spirit of removing negativity. And so by macerating those spirits altogether into life force, which is water, we are literally creating a new spirit, if you will, that is going to cleanse and remove the negativity from our body. So it's not just a simple add this, add that you're done. It's a ceremony, it is a tradition, it is a way of connecting with the spirits of everything to create some form of action or magic.

Frank: 40:36

And you're creating a new spirit through combining these spirits and combined with your intention.

Alexis: 40:43

Yes, absolutely, and that's something that we do. In Palo, we create what are called perendas or gangas Even in Kibanda they're called asentamentos and they are essentially a combination of a main spirit that we're working with or in Palo de Cala, muerto, which literally means a death or a dead, and then we combine them with animal, plant, mineral, all these things that have their own spirit, into one giant spiritual pot, essentially, which is called an asentamento in Brazil or a prenda in Cuba, and by doing that now we have a very powerful natural force that is not only a human spirit, but is a human spirit that is now combined with the essences of nature, spirits.

Frank: 41:32

OK, ok, it's kind of like oh boy, oh boy. Again I got kids. It sounds kind of like Elsa's like big ice monster thing, but like you know it was friendly, it helped her out. It really what a bad example.

Alexis: 41:49

And they can be friendly. That's the thing is that Palo gets a big stigma for being a dark religion because they use things like human bones and work with spirits. But essentially a Palo Brahma can be used to heal someone just as much as it can be used to hurt them. So it really is. It does lie in the heart of the person who is the practitioner and the things we talk about in our in our Brujaria book. But Brujaria is that witchcraft, like dark magic, essentially exists not just because we want to hurt people for fun. It's mostly because sometimes the law is not on our side. So what better way to do to have that justice than to call in spirit and make sure that our justice is taken account?

Frank: 42:32

Gotcha. So it's in the, it's in the eye of the necromancer, as they say, as the common saying.

Lauren: 42:39

As everyone says, common phrase.

Frank: 42:43

Alexis, there was an episode of the Night Owl podcast that was pretty impactful to me and you were present. I remember you played a big role in it. You had to. I remember you were gathering a bunch of I think you were hitting a drum and you had a bunch of herbs and all this stuff and you said you were working with the spirits of of the land to kind of bring like a homeostasis back to this house that had kind of fallen out of balance.

Alexis: 43:04

Yeah, I think that was the. If I'm not mistaken, that's the murder house episode.

Frank: 43:08

I think it was called the murder house. Yeah, that sounds right.

Alexis: 43:10

Yeah, that was a very, very intense case for us. It sounded nice. Yeah, stephen and I have been friends since college and we've been very interested in this for a very long time. We joke around a lot Like there's so much unedited stuff that does not make it into the podcast. Most of it is pretty much the same jokes you've been doing, like today, like it's like all that you know. We just make stupid jokes all the time.

Frank: 43:32

Yeah, that's not all about.

Alexis: 43:34

It's funny when we left that house for the first time we were silent, like we had no jokes, no wisecracks.

Alexis: 43:43

We were just stunned with how horrible it was that the people that had died there, and then just the energy in the space was just as bad. So one of the things we had to do or I had to do was create a ceremony to kind of bring that energy back, because there were some good like energies, just like just just shy of where the land kind of ended. So we had to do a ceremony to bring forth the energies back so that we could basically let the spirits know the land spirits, the good spirits, the native spirits that this home needs blessings again because of all the horrible things that had happened there. And you know, you know this when you go to a place where maybe somebody has died or somebody was killed, there's a feeling, there's a weird feeling in the air or it just seems off. That's what that is. It's the house itself has been impacted by the things that have happened there. So you have to kind of reset the land and reset the house so that good energy can kind of start flowing back through it.

Frank: 44:50

Someone who doesn't have your knowledge and skill set let's say you're my, so my dad. He flips homes and he's, like, experienced some things. I think he has a level of intuition that he hasn't quite acknowledged yet. But that said, like is there any like basic cleansing or do you really kind of need to know what you're doing and bring in an expert? Because I know everyone? You know I have Palo Santo here, I heard I never knew about Palo Santo until I listened to you talk about it, and then I also have Sage and stuff. But same thing, like I'm not an expert. I can light it up and like, do all the stuff, but I'm not.

Lauren: 45:24

And like have a crystal here and there. Yeah, I got it.

Frank: 45:26

I got it. I got a crystal right here, but it's me kind of going through the motions to a certain extent because I don't fully understand it. So I don't know, is there anything that, like your average average Joe can do, or is it just better to get a pro?

Alexis: 45:39

For basic. Like you know, the house is feeling a little off, absolutely. Palo Santo, Sage. You know, whatever those things you want to use to kind of clear the energy, is totally fine If it's more advanced than that.

Alexis: 45:52

If you're dealing with, for example, like a situation like the murder house, where there are multiple murders in one space, or you know even a space where there just seems to be a lot of horrible spiritual activity, it's really good to find a practitioner, a genuine practitioner, who can go in and kind of gauge the situation, because it's kind of like something that we say in Quiland de Lisbon not all the cures are the same. You know, if we have a line of people outside to get cleansings, you know Eric and I will do cleansings, for example for the public. We do public cleansings. We're not using the same thing on every single person. You know we're taking a quick week, doing a really quick analysis and being like okay, this is what we need to use on this person. The medicine's always going to change depending on the person and depending on the location. So it is going to require a bigger person, usually for like, a really bigger job.

Alexis: 46:46

Now, in the case of your father, who you said is like flips homes. I would actually recommend, like before he even like starts working on a property, to just do a very simple introduction Hi, I am so-and-so. I'm just here to beautify this home and make it beautiful again so that someone else is going to come here and take care of it, and then you can offer a little sage or something to the land tobacco even as an offering and saying like I'm sorry for any other things. I mean it happened on this space location. I was not present for that. I'm just here to fix and beautify this space.

Alexis: 47:19

I love that so much, that's nice.

Frank: 47:21

Love, make and peace with, With, with a space, and just like treating it with respect.

Frank: 47:25

I feel like that's so important, it's so nice and any yeah, energy that's there Like they're not feeling encroached upon, or like piss that you're coming to knock down a wall here or there, whatever yeah and also just even hearing you describe it like that sounds something that like anybody can do, like you can go in and do that and like just thanking, thanking a space for you know, allowing you to engage with it. It just sounds like something you should be doing anyway.

Alexis: 47:54

I would say we have a tendency to believe that when we buy something it's ours. Yeah right, but the land and anything else that was there before was was there before we were right.

Frank: 48:03

So that's not capitalism. Come on, alexis, I own all my stuff. No, I think that's an amazing point.

Lauren: 48:11

Yeah, when you say that you do a cleansing for someone and you take a little peak, are you, is it like their aura, their Energy, like what are you are you tapping into? Like their brain, their past lives, their life? What is it?

Alexis: 48:27

Eric, I was all of the above right.

Eric: 48:30

Yeah, I think so. I think it's difficult to Really can point it, because every medium, every good on that will go on that as different. It's really hard to explain it honestly. It's just for me. I just, I just say I'm tapping into the current, I'm tapping into their, their current, their energy, but I think that energy is a loaded term, right?

Frank: 48:53

Yeah, it doesn't really begin to describe what really is going on, right my last big question, which I kind of mentioned in the email that I sent you, was that our, our trusted family psychic, who I I lovingly refer to in the fake name of dr Claire because we're not outing him he's told me a few times he's like, he's like I don't know what's up, but like you have an envy issue, I'm like I don't really like. Sure, I mean, I see somebody with a nice car on occasion. I'm like that's a nice car, like I can't afford that. But but he says like, oh, your envy is a big deal. And I was like what are you talking about? So recently I had COVID and he said that basically my ADD brain was calm enough that he can like read it a little bit better. And he said, oh you, you smell like Santoria, you smell like you inherited someone else's envy. So he thinks that I have a slight envy curse. I don't even know if that's a thing, but, um, I believe him. Yeah, is it a thing?

Alexis: 49:48

it is a thing that is something we talk about in our books actually, oh, really, a form of sickness and that we refer to in code of the least more as in media, and media says whenever it's just one of two things, it's either Someone has been envious of you and therefore they have placed like a curse on you, not Purposefully, but just because they're envious of the things that you have, okay, and then the other one is that you know they they purposefully were like sending that energy toward you. But there's also Some people do it naturally. So, for example, they may have the envy of themselves and they give it to people on accident Because they already have that the ability to do that. Essentially, you may see this a lot with like what we call evil. I right, mom. They'll pull immediately like touch a child or touch like somebody on the head when they say, oh, they're so beautiful, and they touch their head because they don't want them to get the evil eye.

Alexis: 50:45

It's, it's the same your envious of the fact that they have beautiful hair, you're envious of the fact that we have a beautiful face, or they have gorgeous eyes. So we, we touch them as a way of connecting ourselves to them and saying don't send anything to them though, don't connect like send any envy to them. I'm okay with the fact that they have beautiful eyes or beautiful face, so that is something. But now the something, the other part of that, I'm not too sure. That's something that you would have to ask Eric about.

Frank: 51:13

Eric, any insights? Oh, I was specifically told that it was Someone who is envious not necessarily of me, but of someone else in my family, and it came to me because it couldn't get to that person they was originally intended to go to. I'm being very vague right now because I'm not trying to out anybody, but my assumption, just from hearing about it a little bit, was that it may have been on accident, but maybe not.

Eric: 51:35

I Mean it's definitely possible, right, we can just really say that's not something that might happen. As far as the Santadia context, I mean, if you have experience in this spiritual practice and religion, oh, really knowledgeable elder would be able to help you with that issue. So as far as like being passed on or I Don't know, I'm just just kind of a Try to understand it a little bit better. I've never heard or something like that. But again, I'm not saying that that does not exist. Sure does anything's possible.

Frank: 52:07

Yeah, yeah, trust me, I've never heard of it either and I never assumed. I keep telling Lauren I'm like, I'm cursed, you don't want nothing to do with me babe.

Eric: 52:15

Yeah, I don't. I think that that's. I'm a big advocate for something. Yeah, I think it deserves respect, sure, so it's be quite honest with you. I don't feel like that's something, that's that we can blame on something.

Frank: 52:26

Yeah, yeah, I would more or less blame it on someone's intentions or deep envy that ricochet onto me, Sure, which you know I'm a big. I'm always gonna talk about intentions. I think it's something people don't discuss enough. Yeah. Let's assume this was just an Unintentional but like maybe I received someone's deep envy. What would you recommend as maybe a first step for me to Maybe clear that in some way?

Eric: 52:51

Well, the medium specifically told you as an ancestral, I will definitely encourage you to set up some sort of elevation for your ancestors, for sure, what do you mean?

Frank: 53:00

by elevation.

Eric: 53:01

Right. So that way, their understanding that even in the spirit world you're able to elevate your consciousness, right To be able to say that I don't have to have this frame of thinking anymore, I don't have to be envious in the spirit world, I don't. I don't have to have Andy with me, and by doing that you start clearing up that issue. So I don't think this is a Santeria aspect. I think it's more ancestral and I think that that will probably be something for a different podcast, obviously because there's a, there's a practice in Cuba and Latin America in general, called spirit is a spirit of these most. So it's working with those types of spirits and energies. Okay, but for you, I would recommend definitely just do some elevation for your ancestors, praying for them, praying for their clarity, for sure.

Frank: 53:43

Okay, that kind of checks out with some other stuff I'm supposed to do. Yeah you're supposed to be diving pretty, pretty deep into your ancestral yeah, there's maybe some like latent psychic abilities on my side of the family that I might have. I've been too busy to pay attention to, so I'm trying to fix that.

Eric: 54:06

Yeah, for you I'm honestly feeling it's more ancestral, more, more of that elevation work that we've been talking about. You know, there's a saying that like this, and I really follows that you heal yourself. You also hear your ancestors.

Frank: 54:19

Ah yes that also checks out with something else I was told recently. Okay, this is great, that's so helpful.

Lauren: 54:27

Healing generational trauma.

Frank: 54:28

Yeah, yeah here we go. Yeah, party, party time, guys. Eric Alexis, you are awesome. Is there anything else you'd like to tell people about any of your, your practices or your work, or where they can find your books?

Alexis: 54:40

You can find our books pretty much anywhere there on Amazon. They're pretty much all over the place. We sell them through our website. When we do get them, we do sell out of them because we signed them amazing and Well, we do get them in. We'll probably have them in a few weeks, more likely, but you can get us. You can always find us at city alchemist, in our Instagram, city alchemist or Facebook messenger, anywhere. You can always reach out to us. We try to get back to you as soon as we can, or just email us at info. City alchemist co.

Alexis: 55:12

And we are the kind of people that are if we can't find the answer, we're gonna find somebody for you that will. We don't believe in just being like, no, sorry, we can't do that. You know, we're gonna try to find somebody and help you out in some way. When it's just like the podcast, we're never just gonna leave behind dry. Last words, I would just say you know, don't be discouraged by the social media can be a really good thing for practitioners. They can also be a curse, because there's so many people out there that are saying this is the right way and this is the wrong way, and so on and so forth. Look for, look for good, proper teachers. That's probably really, really important. If you can't find a proper teacher, reach out to us and we'll find somebody who we think would be perfectly suited to you. That's amazing, thank you both so much for giving us your time today.

Frank: 55:59

I might follow up more on the elevation for ancestors thing. Yeah, that's interesting.

Lauren: 56:04

You gotta talk to Eric now. Yeah, you've got it, you've got a journey. I gotta stop getting distracted. We're in the middle of like.

Frank: 56:08

We have like three weddings to go to over the night, or we just went to a wedding last week and we got two more weddings coming up. I'm in one of them, lawrence, and one of them. So it's just like I'm also trying to, like you know, awaken my, my ability to be spiritual again. It's a lot to tackle.

Alexis: 56:27

Yeah, we understand. It's harder when you actually run the spiritual business as well. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'm gonna try to get there.

Frank: 56:31

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you guys burn out sometimes. You're just like I don't want to talk about this right now, let's watch football. All right, gentlemen? Thank you so much again, thank you in touch.

Lauren: 56:51

We'd like to thank our newest supporter, gargantua Gargantua. Gargantua Jones-Borb Jr bought us some. Gargantua Jones boy, I can't do it. Gargantua Jones-Borb Jr bought us some coffees. Thank you, gargantua.

Frank: 58:02

You.