Clairvoyaging
Normalize Your Spiritual Journey!
After a close family member experienced an undeniably psychic event that shocked believers and skeptics alike, Lauren and Frank (an open-minded but naturally skeptical married couple from the suburbs of California) decided that it was time to learn more about things that can't be easily explained.
Lauren and Frank Leon interview experts about the esoteric sciences. Through spiritual growth and trauma healing, they attempt to enhance their intuition and unlock their psychic abilities. They'll ask the stupid questions you've always wanted the answers to.
Clairvoyaging offers a glimpse into the couple's exploration of diverse esoteric subjects, with warmth, humor, and genuine curiosity, Lauren and Frank navigate these intricate domains, inviting experts and practitioners to share their insights, experiences, and wisdom.
Each episode explores the expertise of their guest. Topics include the vast spectrum of psychic abilities, mediumship, energy healing, divination, tarot, spirit communication, astral projection, remote viewing, auras, past lives, dream interpretation, intuitive awakening, spiritual empowerment, and channeling messages from guides and higher consciousness.
Whether you're a seasoned esoteric enthusiast or a newcomer to these mystical arts, this podcast encourages reflection and self-exploration, inspiring a deeper connection with the mystical aspects of life, and how to integrate open-mindedness with the struggle of adulting in everyday American life.
Clairvoyaging is your gateway to the extraordinary.
Visit www.clairvoyaging.com merchandise or to access free resources to help you on your spiritual journey.
Email us: clairvoyagingpodcast@gmail.com
Support us: www.buymeacoffee.com/clairvoyaging
Clairvoyaging is a production of Wayfeather Media.
Clairvoyaging
015: Meet Gwen // Psychic Kids Setting Boundaries
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Our latest episode invites you on a journey through 6-year-old Gwen's world. Over the last year, our niece Gwen has been experiencing some psychic events, so she and her parents have been on a quest to make her feel more comfortable with her experiences and her gifts.
The conversation shifts to the nuances of Gwen's spiritual encounters, providing an insightful look into her developing psyche. With each anecdote, she enlivens the discussion—from the sobering premonition of a school employee's loss to the challenge of sleeping alone. Gwen articulates her experiences with an honesty that's both refreshing and also pure 6-year old chaos.
Gwen's charisma shines through, leaving us enamored with her spirit and strength. Her balance of the extraordinary with the everyday invites us to view the world with a dash of wonder and a greater appreciation for the unknown. Join us for this heartfelt episode, and perhaps you'll walk away with a new perspective on the incredible gifts that children, like Gwen, can share with the world.
Frank and Lauren now offer Spiritual Coaching and Empowerment Workshops. Visit www.clairvoyaging.com/services and use code VOYAGER at checkout for 15% off.
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Way Feather Media presents Claire Voyaging what's up?
FrankHey, hey.
GwenWelcome back to another fantastic episode of Claire Voyaging, where every intro is better than the last. We know exactly what we're talking about today. I'm here with my wife, lauren. How are you doing, lauren?
LaurenI'm so good. Thank you so much.
GwenMy mouth filled with spit when I did that.
LaurenCongratulations.
GwenWe're not meant for the radio.
LaurenYou know what we did it? We did three weddings in a row. We're sorry, we took last week off. We got weddings to go to Frankie's brother. Dan got married.
GwenBig Dan got married.
LaurenYeah, congrats to Dan and Raquel.
GwenCongrats to Dan and Raquel and every family member involved. Yeah, it was amazing. We had a great time.
LaurenYeah, so quick update, Frankie. We'd like to thank our newest supporter on Buy Me a Coffee, wouldn't we?
GwenWe would. Who is it?
LaurenBonesamagra bought us some coffees.
GwenBonesamagra.
LaurenOkay, you know I'm starting to think. You listeners are making up names and I'm here for it.
GwenBonesamagra I like it. Do you know that's a reference to? No, it's from Spider-Man. It's from the Sam Raimi Spider-Man, the first one. Oh, with Toby McGuire, bonesaw, bonesamagra, bonesaws, ready. You don't remember that?
LaurenEvery origin story for Spider-Man has been different, so Nah, that one's like the classic one. Okay.
GwenHey Lauren.
LaurenHey.
GwenAny announcements.
LaurenYeah, I just want to say we've appreciated the support and the love we've gotten for this podcast and if you could share it with your friends, sweet listener, or write a review on whatever podcast platform you're listening on, that helps us grow and we would really appreciate that. So thanks in advance.
GwenYeah, you should tell everybody about what you did today.
LaurenOh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I started taking in-person clients for Reiki. I started practicing out of an acupuncture clinic in Westlake called Aim Wellness Center, and they specialize a lot in women's health reproductive health, fertility, that kind of thing, but just kind of general acupuncture too. So I'm going to be their Reiki practitioner over there. I just booked my first session today.
GwenI mean that's super sweet. It's in two weeks. There we go. I'll toss everybody your website real quick, just in case Lauren's offering distance Reiki too. So if you want to and you know we're going to have some. Oh, I had an idea. We should drop a clear voyaging like a coupon code or something. Special for clear voyaging yeah, for listeners, yeah, okay, let's do that next time. Next time, keep an ear out.
LaurenGo to hellolaurenleoncom and you can book a distance Reiki session with me, half hour hour. Whatever you're feeling, let's do a session. People listeners.
GwenSo, lauren, what's this week's?
Laurenepisode about. Well, we have a special guest this week, frank, and I thought that we should hear from our sweet niece Gwen. We brought her in for questioning, questioning yeah, it did feel a little interrogating. No, I'm just kidding.
GwenGwen is six.
LaurenYeah. So just to recap the story of Gwen who has a fake name, by the way, so that we can protect her identity she had a big year in 2023. She experienced some psychic events which you will hear about straight from the source, and she and her parents have been on a quest to help make her feel more comfortable with her experiences and her gifts. And she's also inspired Frank and me to start this podcast, because we wanted to learn more about what she might be experiencing. She wasn't really talking about what she was feeling at first, but now that she's been working through it and learning about boundaries and facing her fears, she's more confident and willing to chat, but she's six, so we got what we could out of her, and it went off the rails a few times.
GwenIt went off the rails a few times.
LaurenI'm editing Her feeling as six year old is really funny.
GwenYou put a fancy microphone in front of a six year old and you know what you're going to get. And she did a good job. She did, but you know it got weird at a couple of points. So I edited a lot of the weird out, but just for funsies I left a lot of the weird in.
LaurenYeah, did you keep in any of her? Can you delete that part?
GwenNo, I don't remember. She knew when she was being weird and she was requesting during the interview. She was requesting that I edit some of it out.
LaurenYeah, it was very sweet it was. Anyway, please enjoy little Gwen and her story.
GwenHi Gwen.
FrankHi Hi.
GwenHow's it going?
FrankGood.
GwenHow was school today?
FrankPerfect.
GwenPerfect.
LaurenPerfect Wow.
FrankYeah.
GwenListeners, we are recording this on Valentine's Day, so I think Gwen did have a good day at school today.
LaurenYeah, did you get candy or something? Didn't they give you candy? A bunch of candy. Whoa, that's fun.
GwenAnd you brought some fun sunglasses that I'm wearing. They are heart shaped sunglasses.
FrankYep.
GwenYou're not wearing yours right now because you said it hurts you with the headphones. Yep, all right, that's fine, hey, gwen.
LaurenThanks for coming in, gwen. Yeah, of course anytime, oh man. Oh man, what a character.
GwenWe've told some of the people that listened to our podcast a little bit about you, but I want you to tell us a little bit more about you, so I have a couple of questions for you, okay.
FrankOkay.
GwenAll right, how old are you? Six, how old are you?
FrankKindergarten.
GwenInteresting.
FrankOh.
GwenInteresting, can you? What are your favorite hobbies? What's?
Frankthat mean.
GwenYou know like what do you do, Like sports or activities that you do that.
LaurenWhat do you do for fun?
FrankUm, after school, sometimes they do hip hop, and then, and then on Mondays, and then on Wednesdays, I go to gymnastics, gymnastics.
GwenI've seen you do the gymnastics. You're nailing it.
LaurenYeah, thanks. I like your dance moves. I've seen you do some dance moves before.
GwenI mean, the dance moves are out of control. They're killer, thanks, A couple of other questions. What's your favorite movie right now?
FrankStar Wars. You're kidding.
LaurenWhoa.
GwenYou have no idea how happy that makes me.
LaurenYou probably do know how happy that makes me that is Uncle Frank's absolute favorite.
GwenI love it so much. What's your favorite food?
FrankFrench fries and chicken.
LaurenOh, french fries Solid choice.
GwenWhat a weakness for me.
LaurenI think I am six.
GwenNo, you're not, you're like hip hop, star Wars and French fries.
LaurenFrench fries and chicken, yeah, hey Gwen. Yeah.
GwenWhat do you want to be when you?
Frankgrow up A singer.
GwenA singer.
FrankOh.
GwenLike uh, who's your favorite singer?
FrankTaylor Swift Taylor Swiftie Okay oh wow, hey uh, Gwen.
GwenYeah, can you sing a little bit of Taylor Swift for us right now? Just a little bit.
FrankOkay, I jumped in the back of the car and I cried like a baby and uh, uh, uh, yeah, Nice, you nailed it that's good.
GwenGood job, I like that Thanks.
LaurenI jumped. I jumped in the back of the car. I like that.
GwenOkay, all right, I'm going to start asking you some questions. You know why we brought you on here today, right?
FrankYep.
GwenWhat do you think we're going to ask you questions about?
FrankUm spirits.
GwenYeah, a little bit. And how come? Why you though?
FrankUm, I kind of have powers, yes, I mean.
LaurenYeah, I like, I like, I like the name powers. That's amazing, gwen you know what they say.
GwenThey say that everybody has those gifts, but some people are better at using them than others, and I think you might be pretty naturally good at using your abilities. What do you think?
FrankYeah.
GwenYeah, me too Okay. So let's talk about real quick. Let's talk about the first time you realized you had abilities. What, what happened?
FrankUm, the first time, I realized. Well, I saw a ghost, a spirit. It was in the garage. I became friends with her, though, oh wow.
GwenDo you remember how long ago was that?
FrankI don't remember.
GwenYou don't remember.
FrankNo, that's okay.
LaurenBecause don't know time.
Exploring Gwen's Spiritual Abilities
GwenYeah, that was a stupid question. So you met a spirit in your garage and what did? What did? What did the spirit look like?
FrankWell, she was kind of blue. Her hair was long, she didn't have any pupils. What do you mean? No pupils? I mean the black part in your eye, uh-huh pupils.
GwenWhat do you mean? No pupils?
FrankI mean the black part in your eye that helps you see. And now my eyelashes. She didn't have any legs and she had fingers and all kinds of that stuff Arms, hands, fingers arms, no legs, or she's just like floating around. She was like at the top of the ceiling.
GwenOkay, and that was the first time, mm-hmm, okay.
LaurenDid you feel scared or were you like that's weird.
FrankI kind of felt scared yeah.
GwenWhat did you do?
FrankI was by myself and then I saw something and I ran. You ran back inside.
GwenDid you tell anybody?
LaurenNo, why didn't you? You didn't tell your parents? Were you scared to tell them?
FrankUm no, Okay.
GwenHow come you didn't say anything? You just didn't, didn't feel like it.
FrankYeah.
GwenAlright, that's fine. What about? What about? It made you scared?
FrankIt's just looking at the spirit for the first time. It just brings all of the emotions and stuff.
GwenDude, that that makes sense. If Uncle Frank or Auntie Lo saw a spirit, it would probably be pretty freaky at first, until you get used to it. Can I ask you a question, mm-hmm, have you gotten used to it or is it still kind of freaky?
FrankI got used to it really quickly.
LaurenOh, wow, um. We heard a story about one day when you were at school, you talked to a yard duty. Yeah, yeah, what happened.
FrankWell, I just thought that her mom died, and then I told it to her.
LaurenYou said. You said hey, your mom died, mm-hmm Did something. Tell you that.
FrankIt just came up Like a spirit told me or something.
GwenI don't really know. You didn't see anything, you just heard something, or what happened.
FrankUm, it just came right to my brain.
GwenOkay, so it was like a thought.
LaurenYeah.
GwenOkay.
LaurenBut you didn't know if it was your thought or someone else's.
GwenYeah, interesting.
LaurenDid you feel bad telling her or were you like? She needs to know this.
FrankUm, she needs to know this. Actually, I don't even know what I felt.
GwenYeah, because, Gwen, that's a pretty crazy thing to have just pop in your head.
LaurenYeah.
GwenYou know, like that's, was that the first time something like that had happened. Yeah, were you just had a thought in your head suddenly.
FrankMm-hmm.
GwenYeah, so that was the first time a thought popped in your head.
FrankYeah.
GwenOkay.
LaurenHas that happened again? No, were you just like on the playground and you walked over to her?
FrankUm, I was on the black top and then, well, I kind of forget, I mixed up with other things. Oh, okay.
LaurenWell, I remember your parents saying that the next day the yard duty came over to you and said you were right. How did you know that?
FrankI kind of forget, because it was like one year ago, that makes sense.
LaurenI can't remember things that happened like three days ago.
GwenBut you do remember that it happened.
FrankYeah.
GwenAll right. I wanted to ask you this when you told that to the yard duty lady, did anybody else at the school find out that you told her that?
FrankYes, my um, my teacher.
LaurenDid she? Did she ask you about it?
FrankUh yeah, she said hey, gwen, how did you know? Her mom died, and and that's all I remember.
LaurenYou don't remember what you said back? Yeah, do you ever feel like that yard duty lady's mom is like hanging around at the school.
FrankNo, no, no, I think she went back up to heaven.
LaurenOh, the yard duty lady's mom is now in heaven and her spirit isn't isn't hanging around anymore, Yep.
GwenSo spirits go to heaven after they they leave.
FrankYep.
GwenHow do you know that?
FrankUm, it's my presence.
GwenYour presence. You just know that.
LaurenYeah. So, gwen, your parents have told us that you've gotten a little more comfortable talking about spirits or things that you've sensed. How does it make you feel?
FrankGood Fabulous, actually Really good Fabulous. It's hard to explain.
GwenNo, gwen, it's okay. How does when you sense spirits? How does it? How does it make you feel?
FrankReally happy.
GwenReally happy.
FrankYeah.
GwenAre you ever scared? Sometimes, Sometimes Yep, when you're scared.
FrankWhat do you do? Um just say please get out.
GwenIs there anything else you do?
FrankWe say a mantra every night.
GwenA mantra Mm-hmm.
FrankDo you know what a mantra is?
GwenUh, you can tell me please.
FrankWell, it's a thing to keep. Keep good spirits in your house and leave the bad spirits Go somewhere else.
GwenSo what do you say? That's smart yeah.
FrankYeah, you're setting it. You're setting it down. Great song Yep, I say I'm too young. Please leave me alone. Only abandoned family are allowed. The rest of you please get out. Thank you, michael. Michael, I mean Archangel Michael please protect me with your blue light. Also, I do not want to hear you or see you or feel you or know that you're even here. Thank you, that's so polite.
GwenHow come you say all those things to Archangel Michael?
FrankNot all of those things.
GwenWell, you say I don't want to see you, hear you or all the things you said. Why do you say that?
FrankBecause I just don't feel like hearing is when I'm not seeing wings or seeing anything.
GwenYou think it would freak you out.
LaurenYep, I get it.
GwenYeah, me too.
LaurenI feel like that would freak me out too. But yeah, you want Archangel Michael's protection, so you say a mantra and that's before bedtime. Yep, do you say anything out loud any other time? We?
Frankstarted a thing about sleeping in my room for seven days, and if I get it all seven days, I get an award. You get an award.
LaurenHave you made it to seven days yet? No. I keep waking myself up, you keep waking up and then you end up. Where do you end up?
FrankIn my mom and dad's room.
GwenUgh so annoying. Why is it annoying?
FrankI'm never going to get to my award.
GwenOh yeah, I know what are you feeling, what makes you go to your mom and dad's room.
FrankBecause I wake up myself.
GwenBut why don't you just stay in your room?
FrankI don't know, don't ask me.
GwenAre you scared?
FrankKind of.
GwenIt's okay to be scared. I get scared sometimes.
LaurenYeah, I mean a lot of kids your age get scared of things. Do you feel like more bothered in the middle of the night or do you just feel scared?
FrankI feel more bothered just because of movies. Oh, because of movies Like Star Wars and Anakin and all that stuff.
GwenWait a minute. You said Star Wars is your favorite movie, and now Anakin scares you.
FrankI like Anakin but sometimes I just think of him and he makes me like scared.
GwenI have a big question what Do you think they're still good in Anakin?
FrankYeah. And also because he cut off his head.
GwenI know, but Gwen, gwen.
FrankWhat.
GwenDoesn't that make him a bad guy?
FrankYeah, but I still like him, uh, oh.
GwenWait, are you a bad guy? Quite a conflict? No, okay, okay, you just have hope that Anakin's. There's still some good in Anakin.
FrankYeah, because the last thing Padme said in the third movie, Obi-Wan Kenobi I know they're still good inside him.
GwenShe did say that.
FrankAw. And then all she did is this yeah, and she had twins.
GwenShe did no spoilers though.
LaurenYeah.
GwenMaybe not everybody knows what happens in Star Wars yet.
LaurenYeah, people are still waiting for all the episodes to come out first.
GwenYeah, Okay, Wait Gwen.
FrankYeah.
GwenSo you wake up. You wake up in the middle night, you go to your mom and dad's room and it's. Is it because spirits are bothering you, or is it because you are just kind of afraid and because of movies?
FrankI'm just kind of afraid, and of movies Okay.
GwenWell, I'm going to have to talk to your mom and dad about their choices, because it sounds like they're they're blowing out a little bit. What do you mean blowing it? I mean like, if you're waking up because you're afraid of movies, maybe they're letting you watch the wrong movies, dude.
FrankNo, I love Star Wars.
GwenYeah, maybe you know what the truth is. I watch scary movies too, and they scare me, and sometimes it makes me not fall asleep.
FrankSo I love, I love Star Wars and.
LaurenOkay, I have a question Do you like having this gift or ability, or do you wish you didn't have it?
FrankI love having this ability.
Exploring Spirit Communication With Gwen
LaurenYou do, yeah. Do you wish you could turn it off, or do you want to use it at some point when you're older?
FrankSometimes I wish I can turn it off, and then sometimes I want to use it when I'm older.
GwenYou want to be able to control it better.
LaurenUm yeah, okay, we've talked to some cool adults that have similar abilities as you and it's really meaningful to them because they get to help people connect with friends and family and loved ones that have passed into the spirit world. So they think they are able to help people with healing, like their emotions and hearing from someone who's passed away. Do you wish you could do that.
FrankYeah.
GwenMaybe when you get older, maybe you can like sing songs about spirits.
FrankYeah, I don't know. No, no, no, no, don't be weird, that'll be weird.
GwenOkay, even if it is weird, why don't you give us an example of what that would sound like? Sing a little spirit song.
FrankI love spirits. They make me rise and shine.
GwenWow.
FrankI love spirits like my rock and shine.
LaurenDoes that hurt you? You doing alright Fine.
GwenYeah, gwen, can I ask you a question?
FrankYeah.
GwenWhat do you want to say to people who are kind of afraid of spirits?
FrankIt's fine, it's just normal. Everyone has abilities.
GwenOkay, but do you think spirits are always scary?
FrankNo, some are really really nice.
LaurenOkay. Do you see them in your mind or do you see them with your eyes?
FrankIt's kind of complicated.
LaurenI don't know. Okay, they're in your garage. Did you see the lady with your eyes like as if I was right here, or did you see her like in your mind and my mind.
FrankI actually don't know. I forgot.
LaurenThat's okay. That's so interesting. Can you tell if you hear a Spirit, or does it sound like your own voice? And Just something you know I?
FrankDon't really know.
LaurenLike the feeling that popped into your head about your the yard duty lady. Was there a voice or was it just?
Frankyour brain, you it just popped.
LaurenIt popped in so well. I remember your parents telling us that sometimes you have bad dreams. Do you think you're being communicated to or talked to from spirits while you're dreaming?
FrankUm, can I tell you about one dream? Yeah, there's one dream about me and my friend where we were playing in the attic and Guy that was a ghost Jumped up and we got scared and we ran down the stairs and he said Wait, don't, wait, don't leave. The next morning, the morning, in the morning, I told my mom and dad and I kind of felt scared.
LaurenDid you know who that person was? No, how'd you know it was a ghost? I Just Felt like it, I sensed it, you sensed it, I see.
FrankCan we be done with this interview?
LaurenYes.
GwenMore questions for you.
FrankOkay.
GwenDo you know anybody else who can send spirits?
FrankNo no.
GwenDo you think it would make you feel more comfortable if you did know somebody else who could send spirits?
FrankYes.
GwenAuntie Lowe and Uncle Frank watch a show called psychic kids and Sometimes they get a bunch of kids to go on a trip together and they kind of explore their abilities together and they always end up being friends at the end and sometimes I wonder if we can do something like that with you.
LaurenIt helps those kids not feel so alone. Yeah, that'd be cool if you could meet another kid that had abilities like yours, right?
FrankRight, and I also watched one of those episodes.
GwenYou did? Yeah, we sent them one.
FrankWell, there's a girl and there was a ghost in the attic and and that girl asked the girl if she needs help and she said they kind of freaked me out, oh oh, you can hear the, you can hear the spirits voice. Yes.
GwenYeah, yeah, you know, but but all those kids that were working on that together, do you think they were all friends?
FrankYes, I.
GwenKind of think that by doing that they made a good friendship and they were supportive of each other.
LaurenThe host of that show. His name is Chip coffee. He always tells the kids fear is the worst thing because it it controls you instead of you having control over your emotions or your boundaries.
FrankYeah, and I also watched the second episode about a kid getting lost the show is not sponsored by a clairvoyaging in any way.
LaurenHey, gwen. Yeah, what's the coolest part about sensing spirits?
FrankYou get to talk to them.
GwenWhy do you think they talk to you?
FrankBecause they need help.
GwenThey need help. Yeah you think you'll be able to help them one day?
LaurenYeah, do you know what they need help with?
GwenNo you just know that they need help with something.
FrankYeah, what does it yonks?
Laurenthat was a young, six year old guest Looks like man, I guess our show is boring.
FrankI was just yawning, I know, but you're making it sound boring.
LaurenLet me put you to sleep, glenn.
GwenOh my gosh, glenn, you better get used to talking into a microphone, because, especially if you're gonna be a singer- yeah. Okay.
LaurenI think the Valentine's candy is kicking in.
GwenYeah, no kidding.
FrankNo, I didn't eat any Valentine's.
GwenThis is just naturally you.
FrankYeah.
GwenYou're a mess. You're a mess kid.
FrankI'm gonna get out of this room right now, wait.
GwenI have one more question. Bye, bye, no, I have a question.
FrankWhat.
GwenWell, it's not a question. I want you to do something.
FrankYeah.
GwenI want you to tell us a joke.
FrankOkay, where do cows like to go for fun? Where the movies?
GwenVery good, can I use that nice?
FrankYeah okay. I love that.
GwenWhat's your favorite color?
FrankI have two actually, oh that's interesting.
GwenTell us about it actually four. Okay, how do they multiply pink one?
Frankred two purple three blue, black.
GwenThat's five.
FrankYellow, orange, green.
GwenWe're off the rails entire rainbow. We're off the rails and this might be off brand. I'm not even sure. We gave it a try. We gave it a try and we literally started a brand because of you and suddenly you're off brand. What do you think about that?
FrankI'm gonna get out of this room right now.
GwenOkay, and if?
Frankyou want me to tell a joke? Ask me right now.
GwenI don't do you have another joke. Yep, I'm gonna put you in a headlock and give you a noogie. Who's there?
Chaos Hour With Gwen and Frank
FrankWho, who, who are you? What?
Gwenwow did you write that? No okay, I just need a booking agent. Okay, you stole that joke. Wow, cool Dane cook.
LaurenLadies and gentlemen, this has been Gwen. Thank you very much.
GwenAnd that's without. This is Gwen without sugar. Can you imagine with?
LaurenThank you for joining us today.
GwenHey Glenn, bye, wait, Glenn.
FrankYeah.
GwenUncle Frank and Antelope Love you.
LaurenWe love you. What so you know?
GwenDo you love us, or what that's? Why we have a that's why we have a limiter break everyone's ear drums.
LaurenYeah, all right, get out of here, kid.
FrankI'm waiting for you guys to get out here.
GwenGwen, do you want your own show?
Laurenyou, you and Uncle Frank can host, a co-host, a show together.
GwenChaos hour with Gwen.
LaurenYeah, do not.
GwenSay hi to everybody. Hey, hey, gwen Mm-hmm. You know everyone was interested in hearing about you and hearing from you. Do you want to tell anybody anything before you go?
FrankNo.
GwenWell, here you have it first Claire voyaging exclusive. Bye, gwen.
FrankYes, it was a terrible interview.
GwenThank you for listening. Visit WWW dot Claire voyaging dot com for show notes, merch, or just to say hi. If you'd like to support our journey, visit WWW dot buy me a coffee dot com. Backslash, claire voyaging. This has been a production of Wayfeather Media.
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