033: Divine Timing & Living into your Purpose // with Pam Sears

Pam Sears, an evidential psychic medium and author, shares her remarkable journey from a traumatic childhood to becoming a spiritual healer for thousands. Learn how she overcame adversity and found her calling, eventually making a significant impact via TikTok and through her insightful books, including a unique children's story about spirit guides.

What role does spirituality play in healing trauma? Pam delves into the transformative power of platforms like TikTok, helping people find spiritual comfort and purpose. She shares her insights on personal growth, the evolution of spiritual awareness, and the importance of focusing on positive interactions. We also touch on her experience as a hospice massage therapist and the profound psychic moments that shaped her path, emphasizing the necessity of questioning and trusting in spiritual guides.

Pam is helping the next generation stay connected to their spiritual senses through her children's book "No! No Nap!" She discusses the inspiration behind the story and her efforts to normalize spiritual experiences for kids. Join us for an inspiring conversation filled with valuable lessons on healing, spirituality, and personal growth, and see how Pam Sears is making a difference one message at a time.

To book a session with Pam, buy one of her books, or learn more about her:
Visit PamSears.com
Follow on TikTok
Follow on YouTube

Transcript

Lauren: 0:01

Hey pals, in this episode we talked with Pam Sears, an evidential psychic medium and author of three books, one of which is a children's book about a little boy meeting his spirit guides. We talk about how Pam found her healing path and met some travelers along the way, like angels disguised as people, and I'm still very intrigued by it and could not stop talking about it. I'm your host, lauren Leon, and I'm still very intrigued by it, and could not stop talking about it.

Frank: 0:26

I'm your host, lauren Leon, and I'm Frank.

Lauren: 0:26

We are a married couple learning how to develop our own intuition, and this is episode 33 of Clairvoyaging Wayfeather Media presents Claire Voyaging Hi Frank.

Frank: 0:56

Frank's not available for that.

Lauren: 0:57

Oh no, you don't like that, I did.

Frank: 1:02

Hey guys.

Lauren: 1:04

What's going on. You know I was, I just went on a work trip and, boy, boy, were my arms tired.

Frank: 1:12

No, we have, we have a fly. We have a rule you cannot make bad jokes until the the intro music has ended, because then you can't cut it out it's a tough cut. Yep, it's a tough cut. You're welcome, but it's all. It's also the part of the show where we're the most insecure and most likely to fail well, sorry, so you get what you pay for what so it's it's free. So yeah, you can I put a ring it.

Lauren: 1:45

I'm talking about the podcast. Oh, here's a little window into our marriage.

Frank: 1:56

Anyway, what you got.

Lauren: 1:59

Guys, our journal is finally getting fixed and reprinted. It's been a long road, but we'll get there soon.

Frank: 2:05

Sorry about that.

Lauren: 2:06

Yeah, it's one of those like what lesson are we learning from this? Do you know, frank, are we there?

Frank: 2:13

yet Do you know?

Lauren: 2:14

No, We've got 100 free mistakes. Those go in promo packs. Which leads me to the next thing, which is if you write a review on Apple Podcasts, or even if you just post it, like you like our show, send us a screenshot and we'll send you a promo pack which is now including one of our journals.

Frank: 2:35

Which it still works.

Lauren: 2:37

It still works. I sent out a few. I said here you go.

Frank: 2:40

Some of the printing is less than satisfactory quality.

Lauren: 2:44

So that's what happened, yeah anyway, we have a great episode today. We talked with the lovely pam sears. She's made quite a name for herself through tiktok. She has a career as a psychic medium, and then she got this little like nudge. She heard a message that said now do tiktok, which I think is really funny and amazing.

Frank: 3:07

She has such a great demeanor and essence and she's lovely, and she's the author of three books, one of which, one of which I just bought five minutes ago oh yeah, yeah, I saw that it's called.

Lauren: 3:21

No, no nap no, no nap it's about a boy who doesn't want to take a nap and then, while he's like, in his room, he throws a tantrum and while he's in his room, his spirit guides get in touch with him.

Frank: 3:32

Yeah, and I don't want to spoil the story, but also I can't, because I haven't read it yet, because it's coming yeah but I'm excited but that's so fun.

Lauren: 3:40

what a great way to teach something and also kind of integrate spirit guides which I didn't even know existed until like six months ago, Like whenever we started this podcast.

Frank: 3:52

I mean, I'd heard of it.

Lauren: 3:54

Yeah, but I was like, oh, they're like old ancestors and I'm coming to find out. It's a whole other thing.

Frank: 4:01

Could be anybody.

Lauren: 4:02

Yeah, could be anybody. You could choose them, like Lucy Jane.

Frank: 4:06

Yeah.

Lauren: 4:07

So this is a wild ride. Thanks for coming with us and we hope you enjoy the lovely Pam Sears as much as we did.

Frank: 4:15

She's amazing. Let's hit it.

Lauren: 4:17

Roll it, frank Pam Sears. Thank you so much for joining us on, claire Voyaging, we're so happy to have you with us. Thank you, can you tell us a bit about yourself and how you got to what you're doing now as a psychic, intuitive medium?

Pam Sears: 4:38

Actually, ever since I was little, ever since I was little, I didn't know exactly what was happening, but I was always hearing people. I was little. Ever since I was little, I didn't know exactly what was happening, but I was always hearing people. I was always talking to people and my mom would say, oh God, there, there she goes again. You know who you're talking to. And I would say my friends, and. But I didn't. You know, it wasn't scary or anything.

Pam Sears: 5:02

Now, I did come from a very violent household, lots of trauma, and so there were parts of me I didn't even know what it was about, but I tried to, like, just put myself in a bubble and shut everybody out, okay, but I fully shut out the voices, yeah, no, and that's okay. I just thought, and a lot of times I thought, am I just like answering myself in my head, you know, but I? So I blocked a lot of that for a lot of years. Okay, just for my own protection. But then as I got older, it got stronger and stronger and stronger as an adult. Finally, I went and did some therapy, lots and lots of therapy, to help me go through that trauma and healing.

Pam Sears: 5:56

And then, all of a sudden, it was like hello, hello, it's time. I was probably actually 30. I still was hearing, but I didn't put it towards anything other than just me and my friends. Okay, so I was 30. It's almost like spirit said this is the time when you said you were going to step into your purpose. You were going to step into your purpose and the interesting thing is I didn't listen. Oh, I didn't listen because single mom, two children.

Frank: 6:34

Inconvenient.

Pam Sears: 6:35

Health benefits yeah, health benefits, health insurance benefits. But I knew I didn't belong there anymore. But until one day I walked in and I got fired. Oh, that'll do it.

Frank: 6:49

We're going to have a talk about that.

Pam Sears: 6:52

Yeah, that'll do it. That'll do it, yeah. And I remember I was like crushed and I had my best friend said congratulations and I thought what the hell? And I remember I was swimming my laps in the pool and I said what do I do now? What am I going to do? And I heard a very deep voice. I was the only one in the pool and the deep voice said massage. And I went massage and I stood up out of my swimming laps and that began the journey. I started in massage college, learned a lot of healing techniques and from there everything just opened up. I didn't think anything of it, I just thought okay, and I knew that I wanted to work with people. I knew I wanted to help people and for those out there who might be similar to me, that you know are neurodivergent or whatever you want to call ADHD, add, the corporate world was a struggle for me, same.

Pam Sears: 7:56

Because it was all up here and working with my hands. I didn't have to do anything other than just do my work, and that's where I belong.

Lauren: 8:08

Yeah, that makes sense. That speaks to me, yeah.

Pam Sears: 8:14

It was interesting to me how everything came in divine timing. Okay. So, being a massage therapist, I thought, okay, this is it, this is my purpose, this is it. And I remember there was an elderly man who came for his very first massage I worked for doctor's office and I remember he had like the widest hair and he had the most crystal blue eyes I had ever seen. And I thought this guy's a little different anyway.

Pam Sears: 8:48

So I'm the massage therapist, he's the patient, and he begins to tell me that he has this issue, you know, with the arm. And I'm like, okay, I'll do such and such. And he goes no, let's try something different today. And I'm like, like, who's the massage therapist here? He kept talking to me about energy. Oh, like, what are you? What are you talking about? And he's, he kept going on and talking about how he wanted me to do some things with the arm. And I remember the my, my spirit team saying just do it, just listen, just do it. So I humored the guy and he said I want you to place your hands over this area, I want you to feel for discrepancies in energy and things like that. And so I thought it was the craziest thing in the world. But I did, and I did feel the discrepancies and when I felt that he asked me to move those energies out, okay, and when that session was like halfway done, I said who are you? And he said I'm just a traveler.

Lauren: 10:02

Oh, and he said it me time for me.

Pam Sears: 10:06

He said it's time for you to do your work. What Never saw him, again Never saw him. And that was the next level.

Frank: 10:18

Hold on. I need a second with that one that like who do you think I don't want to ask questions yet, but I usually want to? I want you to finish your story. Who do you think I don't ask questions yet, but I usually want to? I want you to finish your story. Who do you think that was?

Pam Sears: 10:31

There are travelers. There are travelers in the cosmos. They set that's. Their goal is to help people move into their purposes, you know. But some somebody kept saying, kept saying, oh, you met a traveler, how neat is that? They're, you know, they're spirit beings in a human body. Well, we're all spirit beings in a human body, but their specific goal is to travel around and help people. That's who I thought it was. Okay. Wow, a guide yes, yes, okay. Wow, a guy yes, yes, absolutely One of those guys that steps in temporarily and then moves on.

Frank: 11:12

Have you met anybody?

Pam Sears: 11:12

like that since Several.

Frank: 11:14

Okay, okay, okay, finish your story. I'm floored by that.

Pam Sears: 11:18

Several, several, several things. Several things have happened during the course of this. Several things have happened during the course of this and after a bit I began to. In my massage practice, I began energy healing to mediumship and giving messages as I was in their energy field. Whoa, and I didn't realize that that would be the next thing. That happened, yeah, but it seemed to be in divine timing and so, because I'm already in their energy field, it just made it so much easier for spirit to show up. Yeah, so I did that for a long, long time.

Pam Sears: 12:16

Um, and then, when I decided to retire from massage practice, um, spirits like well, you're going to devote like full time now to your mediumship practice. Okay, let the younger ones do the massage work. I mean, I'm 70. So I've been doing it for 25 some odd years. Wow, wow. And what was interesting is when I said to my sons there's going to come a time when I leave Phoenix, move up north, volunteer at my sacred place, and they're like OK, covid, hit, there was my sign. Yeah, so I packed up the house, sold the house, moved up here, thinking I was just going to be doing a volunteer park ranger. But then, all of a sudden, social media opened, wide open, and I'm kind of rural I'm outside the city now so the energy here is so conducive for me to expand that that all of a sudden boom and it's like the more things that happen and I practice and allow that's a big word, allow the more it happened. And so that's currently where I'm at is doing the social media um several places.

Frank: 13:43

So that's my story social media several places, so that's my story.

Lauren: 13:47

I like that story. I love that story Did your spirit guides because you have, like, a lot of followers on TikTok, was there a put it out on social media? Did you get a spirit guide guidance for that too.

Pam Sears: 14:04

When I moved here, okay, and I and I thought well, I'm semi-retired, let's see, you know what I, what I'm gonna do here, and I had my private practice for the longest time of just the personal one-on-one, and the voice was, and I remember specifically it was Thanksgiving and the voice said TikTok. And I went I'm not, I'm not doing that, I'm not doing that. And the voice is like yeah, you are.

Lauren: 14:29

That's such a funny message to get.

Pam Sears: 14:31

It's a funny message. It goes yes, you are, and yes you are because that's where you're needed. Wow, and I thought you know I learned a long time ago why argue yeah, it's not going to do them good. They're going to keep pounding until Because, think about this, we've already agreed to do it. It's just a matter of being reminded that we're supposed to be, at this point in time, the next divine timing to do this.

Pam Sears: 15:00

So I did, I started it up and it was a little bit insane. And then I realized there was a lot of things on there that I didn't like, yeah, and so I said I'm not going to do this, I'm going to just get out of this TikTok. And the voice said there are people who need you. Wow, forget the negative. Yeah, stay with the positive. And it just made so much sense after I started realizing people that found me and they needed, they needed guidance and they needed help. So many people are wanting help. You know they're reaching out, so you know as much as some of it is negative and there's a lot of stuff on there I don't agree with. I understand when spirit guides said but you're needed and you agreed to it.

Lauren: 15:53

Yeah, do you find that you have like a huge range of audience, or do you have like this is the people that I am speaking to, like this is my little niche of.

Pam Sears: 16:08

It's my little niche and there's, there's just like and of course, you know, I made a promise to myself that I would not do any form of mediumship sessions for those under 18. I've been a child advocate for so many years and I just I think they should be kept safe. All right so. But you know, I have people all the way up, I mean all ages, and I'm impressed with some of the younger ones 20s, you know opening up to their own spirituality. I love that. That's great.

Frank: 16:46

It's funny, when TikTok first came around, I was extremely resistant, cause I'm like you know you get and we're dealing with this on a for a certain extent too, with the podcast of like, trying to break out of where the algorithm is is forcing us to be. So when I first signed up to TikTok, I you know it asks you those basic questions. I am a man, I am of this age or whatever and I was like I'm like, okay, let's see what this is about. Literally everything was half naked girls dancing, cause that is the demographic it believes I belong to and.

Frank: 17:18

I was like Whoa, this is they're. They're too young for me and also I'm married, so like this is this is for the kids.

Lauren: 17:25

Yeah.

Frank: 17:25

And then, as soon as I trained that algorithm, like wait a minute. There's people like like Pam on there who, like are interested in things that I'm interested in. Now it's starting to connect me with the people that.

Pam Sears: 17:35

I like yeah, yes, yes, exactly, you know you just. And sometimes you got to clear your algorithm out and start all over again because, all of a sudden, where did that come from?

Pam Sears: 17:46

And so I my my purpose in life and what I love and my passion is to bring forward, you know, comfort for people and healing. Everyone wants to know is my loved one? Okay, yeah, did my loved one cross over to the light? Everybody, you know there's a lot of grief and there's a lot of pain, yeah, and even if I have a bunch of people you know say on my live and I always do a lot of mediumship sessions on there, even if I didn't bring someone forward for that person, they can hear that someone else's loved one validates that they're still around, that they watch. So even if you don't get a session on there you can't give everybody a session, but they all can go away with some comfort Seeing it through someone else.

Lauren: 18:42

you're like okay things seem to be okay in general. It also gives a little bit of comfort, I think, for ourselves, because there is that fear of what is after this and should I be scared to die and all that. So it's helpful on both fronts, right.

Frank: 19:03

Okay.

Lauren: 19:08

I'm going to switch gears. A little bit frank goes into this mode of like.

Frank: 19:10

I've been marinating on a few things I take notes and then I always I have a couple of questions. You said that you always knew you were talking to people, or like your friends your friends? Yeah, at what point were you able to identify them as actual, like spirit guides or your spirit team?

Pam Sears: 19:29

I would say I mean during my, my 20s, I was out partying and doing my own um. So I would say, like the late 20s, early 30s is when, all of a sudden, I began to explore more of my own spirituality and that's when I realized, oh, these are people, these are guides and they're my helpers. So I was excited about that because I wanted to learn who are you? Give me more input, you know?

Frank: 20:02

Yeah, Did you like read or learn something? Or is it just from like, like meditation, or how did you determine what they were?

Pam Sears: 20:10

I don't meditate well. Um, I do what I call walking meditations in nature. That's where I get most of my downloads. Um, I read a lot of books. I read a lot of books, a lot of um past life, a lot of spiritual books. One of the ones that opened my eyes the most is the book called Journey of Souls by Dr Michael Newton. When I read that, I thought to myself yep, there it is. There's everything I've always believed in, and someone wrote it in a book.

Lauren: 20:45

I'm intrigued.

Pam Sears: 20:48

Now I began to communicate with my guides and say can you give me some input, can you tell me this, can you show me this? And the more I asked, and then the validations that I got, more came. The validations that I got, more came. So it was a matter of me myself and I communicating, because when I was developing, I was developing on my own. There was no development circles, yeah, there wasn't classes or courses, it was just me and my spirit guides.

Frank: 21:20

I mean that's such a good point because, at a day and age where everyone feels like they can connect with anybody, there always feels like, and for me too, I feel like I need to find the right group to help me, and there's so many options and I know that if I were to just take the time and look internally, I have all the answers. I need Correct, but like there's such a, I think that that's one of the pitfalls of the internet and globalization in general is that we outsource our intuition to other people.

Pam Sears: 21:56

Yes, yes, I agree. I mean, you know, are development circles helpful for some people?

Frank: 22:03

Sure, oh yeah.

Pam Sears: 22:03

You know, I'm sure you know the right ones. You know, like you said, there's a lot out there and you know, sometimes people are learning things that maybe aren't for the highest good, okay Right, but we, you know, we believe others above ourselves and we're not supposed to do that. We are supposed to believe ourselves first.

Frank: 22:26

Yeah, first and foremost yeah, and I'm, I'm guilty of it, I'm in, I made a podcast to talk to other people, but, in the same respect, like there is like an incredible knowledge base that we can tap into and like, um, I think we can learn a lot in a shorter period of time. Yes, you said that. So, like you're, you're in your twenties, you're in your mid to late twenties and you have recognized what your spirit team is, what your spirit guides are. And at what point did you? What was the impetus for you to get into therapy in your thirties?

Pam Sears: 23:00

You know going through a divorce, you know having children, and I've never really looked into some of that past trauma. You know, let me put it this way, it happens a lot for all of us. It's the soul. It's the soul knowing it's time. Yes, yeah, it's like I had that undeniable urge to say you know what I got to deal with this, I got to look at that and by doing that then other things opened wide open, even more so. So it's like if we do what our guidance is telling us to do, the awesome things that come. We can't even, you know, foresee any of that. Is it painful to go through some trauma and go through therapy? Absolutely? Is it worth it? Yes, it's worth it.

Frank: 23:54

So, having worked through that, what was the before and after for you? What did that open up for you?

Pam Sears: 24:03

But before was being closed off more. I mean, yes, I was still communicating and hearing spirit and things, but I was closed off to let me just say love and you know communicating with people and you know friendships. Afterwards, you know, one of the things that I did was I began to volunteer at a child crisis shelter to help those babies, you know, and that, yeah, it was just incredible to sit in a room with little ones and just I didn't have to do anything. As healers we don't have to do anything, we just are there and the energy just goes out and the children were just loving every bit of it. And after the therapy, then I began to realize, you know, some of the stuff that I was holding on to didn't belong to me, didn't belong to me. If I can release that and let it go, I make room for other things in my life. And that's when you know things like really busted wide open and all of a sudden I found myself in the old MSN chat room days. I don't think you guys know about that, but in the old MSN chat room days I was always seeking and learning and I was in spiritual chat rooms and all of a sudden I found myself in a chat room that I don't know how in the hell I got in there.

Pam Sears: 25:31

Okay, this lady's name was illuminated to me. I mean, it lit up the next thing. I know things were coming out of my mouth that I had. I didn't even know what was being said, what was happening here. It's like, oh wow, somebody was, almost, like you know, talking for me and I would be typing as fast as I was talking and I kept thinking to myself I don't believe this. I don't know what this is, but I don't believe that this is happening. And course I wasn't trusting. And then one of the things that really struck me towards the end of that information I was giving it was a young widow and I started giving her a song and the lyrics and she said that was our wedding song. Wow, and there I'll tell you what I was up all night like. This is, this is real, this is, yeah, something that I can do, that I can help people, and I'm like but why me? Why me? Why not? Why not? Why not?

Pam Sears: 26:42

yeah, that's so affirming that was one francisco's question too, like what why me why?

Lauren: 26:43

not? Why not, why not yeah? That's so affirming that was one Francisco's question too. Like, like it's almost like it feels too big for for you. Like, who am I to like be trusted with this information or this vulnerable, sensitive stuff? That's a responsibility that feels big.

Pam Sears: 27:06

Yeah, and like all this began to happen after I went and looked at my own garbage, but I was still like it took a long time for me to say, but all the things that have happened to me in my life and there's been a lot I don't understand why I'm going to be the one that's going to help people, or one of the people that helps people. And you know, then I began to realize those of us who have looked at our traumas, you know, face those fears. Why not help others? Yeah, okay, yeah, do the same, and so that would make sense.

Lauren: 27:45

Okay, that would make sense we've been talking about that a lot lately where, like I've been trying to put into action, I have a lot of, I have a lot of trauma and grief and, um, I'm like, well, I gotta do something with it. So, using it a smoker and a drinker, okay.

Pam Sears: 28:28

When I was doing little mini chair massages at a metaphysical store way back when I had a lady come sit and I was working on her shoulders and she said I have a message for you and I'm like what? And she said you have to quit smoking because spirit says it's a smoke screen and they can't get through as well as they want to get through. And I'm like what, you know what? It made a lot of sense when she told me that you know when something feels right and sure enough, you know when. I eventually gave that up and the drinking. It's amazing when you give up certain things, that kind of confine you, yeah, you just open. You know, I keep getting cracked open left and right. And here I am 70, you know and I moved up here four years ago I'm still getting cracked open. It's never ending.

Lauren: 29:26

That's incredible, that's a journey. You also keep, I mean these messages from people, just kind of like giving you these little nudges. How cool is that.

Frank: 29:38

I can't get over the traveler, I'm still like. We'll get to the traveler. We'll get to the traveler.

Lauren: 29:42

I just keep thinking about it.

Frank: 29:45

Something regarding the smoking and drinking and stuff. I'm not a heavy drinker or anything like that, but I have noticed lately when I go to a party and I have a couple of drinks, even if I never really feel like intoxicated in any way but and this just happened to me recently the next day I am a shell. Up to many days afterwards. I'm a shell of myself. I'm like I feel terrible and I I don't know if I have like a larger medical issue going on or if, like I am just being led to stop doing that entirely, which I keep feeling it's that. I keep feeling like it's that, and because I'm I'm so deep into wanting to like evolve my own spirituality that I gotta, I think exactly yeah.

Pam Sears: 30:30

And people said to me what do you mean? You, just because I drink heavy to block a lot of the pain out, you can't just stop drinking, you, you have to go to aa. And I said I just stopped. I just woke up one day and I said and they're like, you know, some people can stop. I had my guides and I had my helpers and I just stopped.

Frank: 30:54

That's amazing I don't miss it.

Pam Sears: 30:56

I don't miss it at all.

Frank: 30:58

Well, you have a richer life. Now I'm assuming I do. Yeah.

Pam Sears: 31:03

I do.

Frank: 31:04

So let me ask you now. So you were in therapy. You've explained that through your life you keep getting cracked open, but I want to know exactly what getting fired did for you, because you said that was a difficult transition for you. Like, what was your thought process and how did you come out on the other end with that?

Pam Sears: 31:22

It caused a lot of fear. It caused a lot of fear. It caused a lot of fear because I've been in the corporate world for 20 years. I have these two young children, okay, at a steady income. It made me totally afraid and I thought to myself I knew that I did not belong in that corporate world, but I didn't know where I belonged. But I also, as I said, you know, had that my spirit guides and I knew that they were going to help me. I just had no idea that it was going to start with massage college and I still doubted myself, like, should I just go find another job at a corporate job? But you know what, when we listen to that internal GPS, it kept saying no, no, we got you, we got your back.

Frank: 32:17

I'm laughing because we're both laughing. Yeah, I'm laughing. We're laughing because you are saying my words right now, Like this is the exact thing that Frank is having.

Lauren: 32:28

So maybe you are the person sending a message to Frank, because that's exactly what he's been talking about lately.

Frank: 32:34

And Nazia, I'm sorry listeners, you've heard it too much, but to the 20 years I've worked in corporate stuff for 20 years. I got laid off in November. I haven't looked for another corporate job because I'm not being led to find another one, but I don't know what to do. I have an idea, but it's a very loose idea and I'm not as practiced at interfacing with my spirit guide, so I feel a little helpless right now. But also I know that if I'm going to do anything.

Pam Sears: 33:06

I need to work through my personal traumas, which is what I've been talking about a lot lately. Now also and I'm sure you'll understand this as well when I'm going through that, I'm saying bring me some signs, Bring me some concrete evidence or something about what it is, and if I'm going to be doing it, it is it the right thing to do, and I had already learned from my spirit guides. We had an agreement and I would say I want an in my face sign yep have you asked that question.

Frank: 33:41

frank, sometimes I have some kind of weird block and this is what I was realizing even last night. I say to myself I got to ask that question and I don't actually get around to asking it, even though I know I have it. There's something about verbalizing it that I have like a block. I need to work through it. Just ask the question. But this all, yeah, just ask the question. But this also comes back to what you were saying, Pam. Like you had talked about getting into a position in yourself where you can allow things to happen. Were you in a way, like at some point, like trying to force something else? Because I am?

Pam Sears: 34:15

No, no, I learned early on in one of my books. I even wrote a poem called Fighting the River. I just realized if we fight and we fight and we fight, it's just wasting so much precious energy. If we go with the flow of the river, like my poem says, there you go and are there waves and rapids? Yeah, there you go, you just. And are there waves and rapids? Yeah, but there's also the smooth times. But all of it is important. How can we go out and help other people find their way or bring comfort when we haven't done our own? Yeah, yeah.

Pam Sears: 35:05

So I just said, okay, I tell you what I'm going to be gentle with me, were they gentle?

Frank: 35:07

no, that's part of the fun, though, right, like living on earth like.

Lauren: 35:11

It's not about like having an easy time, it's about the challenge yeah, yes, and like getting kicked in the butt when you really need it because you're like, okay, okay, I'm not listening, fine.

Pam Sears: 35:22

Yeah, you know, and you get to the point where you say bring it, come on. Yeah, careful, did I just say that?

Frank: 35:33

Oh my gosh, all right. Okay, is there as far as like your early development? Is there anything else you want to throw in that I haven't actually asked about Because I'm going to let.

Pam Sears: 35:47

Lauren start asking about travelers. I want to hear about more travelers. I just think that you know, in early development, you know not listening to outside forces and listening to the inside. I mean I had plenty of people say you know you're wackadoodle, right, you know you're wackadoodle, yeah, and you just have to go, okay, just whatever. Yeah, and it was just a matter of really trusting. I mean, it took a lot of me to even have that trust with my guys because I was like, okay, all right, we got this. So it's about listening and not listen to the outer forces that's, that's great I mean, that's the game, isn't it?

Frank: 36:32

yeah, inner intuition yeah, yes, yes uh, you know, I will ask you one more thing. I I actually don't have actual question formulated for this, but I'm hoping maybe you can enlighten me a little bit. Gosh, you know, since we've been engaging in this community, I so deeply want to develop myself so that I can help other people. And you're the same, lauren's the same. Uh, all the all of the you know gifted and intuitive people that we've spoken to are the same. Um, it seems like something that's so built into our nature to want to, to want to do, and I can't help but think that it's like I don't know if it's a calling. I mean, I'm sure there are people who aren't living into their like souls contract and they like don't want to help people. They want to do something else, but it's just it's just an observation.

Pam Sears: 37:20

I believe that the collective, the collective, are coming together because things have to change. Things have to change on this earth, all right. Things have to change. Things have to change on this earth, all right. So, as a collective, I feel that we're all you know, this is something that we all want and we should all be collectively. We should all be opening our own selves up and listening and having that own spirit, our own spiritual journey. Does that mean everyone's going to be out there? You know, um, giving sessions and such, oh god, no, we, you know there, no, yeah, um, it's. It's not meant for everyone to do that, but I do believe that what we can do as a community is to help, collectively, those learn to honor their own spirit and their own journeys.

Lauren: 38:15

Do you find that like there are more people opening up now versus even 10 or 15, 20?

Pam Sears: 38:23

years ago.

Lauren: 38:24

Yes, do you sense like an urgency, like you were saying, like the collective is, like it's this understanding of, like oh yikes cracking wide open versus just me.

Pam Sears: 38:41

Collectively there's a cracking wide open.

Pam Sears: 38:44

Yeah, okay, that's what it seems like yeah, look at the world right now, look at all the issues and such, and you know, and I think that's why so many people are like, that's why they're on social media, that's why they're, you know, unfortunately, some go from psychic room to medium room, to tarot room, to Oracle card rooms seeking answers. You know that's not the best thing to do either, right, but you can still get that help, that little um, a little bit of information, that helps that spark within you grow yeah yeah I've heard this period of time called uh referred to as a decision point and then how you want to have.

Frank: 39:31

You know, your reality, or our collective reality, evolve and I sometimes wonder if that's if I'm finding those things because I'm seeking them, or if they've always been there. And you know what I mean. Like how much is happening in my head versus like what are we all going through?

Pam Sears: 39:46

I think. I personally think it's always been there.

Frank: 39:50

Yeah, yeah.

Pam Sears: 39:51

It's always been there. It's like that little tiny flame deep inside, okay, and that all of a sudden you feed the fire. You feed the fire and it grows. But I think it's always been there.

Frank: 40:05

So, along the lines of that, then, like we, we had our friend Emily. Oh, anybody who listens to the show knows Emily Bullsakes. She went to Venice with us to canvas strangers about what their experiences were.

Lauren: 40:15

It was pretty fun. What's your thing? Episode.

Frank: 40:18

Yeah, she came over just the other night and we were talking about is this? We're all kind of going on the spiritual journey together and is this actually happening, or are we collectively going crazy, like our little group of friends and it, like you know, even talking to you, pam, like you're saying there was a period of your life where you're like, am I going crazy? And people are questioning me Are you going crazy? It just seems like it's part of the transition into, like, maybe a better it's okay to question.

Pam Sears: 40:48

It's okay to question, yeah Cause okay to question? Yeah, because they want us, our, our guides want us to question, because how do you, how do you grow you question, yeah, right, right yeah, yeah, there's always like the fear in the background that like, oh, I'm being duped by something, or, like you know, I'm, I'm you've bought into some nonsense yeah I mean think, think of that traveler guy.

Pam Sears: 41:12

I thought this, you know this guy's nuts and I'm being duped. What's going on here? Who's the massage therapist here? And then, all of a sudden, like things began to open up, but without my guide saying just just do it yeah, just do it.

Lauren: 41:28

Did you? Did you learn any like energy healing after like Reiki or any other?

Pam Sears: 41:35

I wasn't really drawn to Reiki. I was drawn to therapeutic touch, as he was showing me above the body. Therapeutic touch is not touching the body, it's above the body and it's dealing with the energy field. I was very drawn to that and I was actually taught um the technique, therapeutic touch, by the nurse healers association. And it's interesting because one and you run into all these spiritual people that are like little educators, little teachers, and they said you've always had it, but you didn't know you had it. Yeah, and you know you didn't need to take a class. But I mean, taking a class helped me put things in perspective. Yeah, but they're like you know, when healers are born, they don't have to do anything, they're just there. They can be in a group of a room full of people, they can be in a group of a room full of people, they can be whatever, they're just there. But I just and that began to help me also, which I didn't say you- know there's a long journey of my life.

Pam Sears: 42:48

I became a hospice massage therapist for nine years. Whoa, the amount of techniques that I used for that was incredible. Talk about nine years. I had some psychic experiences that blew my mind. Oh, I bet.

Lauren: 43:05

Like helping people transition into the like you're kind of helping with the bridge.

Pam Sears: 43:12

If you want a quick story, I have so many and some of the stories the hospice stories are in my book. I had a gentleman and I went to his house and you know we do lymphatic work and we do the energy work and massage and I remember him saying can you get up and change the TV? Because he wanted a cooking show. So I got up to change the station and there was somebody that was right behind me and in my head I'm saying who's this? And I heard she said this is Barbara. Now, you know, anyone who's professional psychic medium knows you don't go blurting things out to people without consent and all that. And I knew his religious background. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't a good idea. Okay, that's fine. And I began to work with him and then he said something to me. He said hey, did I ever show you a picture of my wife? She died five years ago. And I said no. And he said this is Barbara. And I knew that Barbara was there to escort him home. And the next week he did crossover.

Frank: 44:26

I can only imagine working in hospice is like just a crash course in everything that related to yeah, gosh, yeah, that's to.

Lauren: 44:33

Yes, yeah, gosh.

Frank: 44:34

Yeah, that's a tough gig yeah.

Lauren: 44:37

But also such a beautiful thing to do. My sister-in-law is a hospice nurse. And she is, she just, she loves it and she just finds it such a beautiful thing.

Pam Sears: 44:50

And being an infant massage specialist, I got a lot of the children and, um, you know, my heart has just been incredibly full when I had all that work. Uh, it's not work. Passion, I would say passion. Yeah, my heart still stays full after nine years. I knew that it was time to move on to do something else yeah, that's amazing what other?

Lauren: 45:19

what other traveler stories?

Frank: 45:21

it's traveler time. Wait, actually, I want to make sure we're respectful of your time. Do you have a hard out or anything?

Pam Sears: 45:27

I'm good, I'm good okay, oh, I have an interesting one story that once again, still working for the chiropractor, the doctor's office, and I had an elderly woman come in, okay, and I was. She was face up and I was working on, you know, maybe the upper part of her body, maybe the upper part of her body, and she said, and once again, her eyes boom, boom, boom, those sparkly blue eyes. And she said there's somebody else in the room with us and I'm like what? No? And she said yes, and I'm like I don't think so.

Pam Sears: 46:10

And I thought, oh, you know, I got a lady here, that's, you know, maybe not all, you know, maybe not all there. And she goes, yeah, and she described what he looked like. It was almost like, you know, the old priest with the hat and the robe, and you know, she goes, he's so regal and he's just awesome. And I went, just awesome, and I went, okay, and I just thought I'm not going to engage in this conversation. And she said he helps you do your work. And I'm like what she goes? Yeah, he helped you do your work.

Pam Sears: 46:46

And I'm thinking in my mind I don't believe it. And she said he, he's telling me that you don't believe him. And I'm like, okay, and she said he's telling me to tell you that yesterday you were given a gift of a snow globe and inside the snow globe was a bird and it's a music box, because I collect music boxes. And you, it's a music box because I collect music boxes and you took it home and you put it on the second shelf there on the right before going down the hallway. And that's exactly what happened. That's exactly what happened. There's no way that she would have known that. And then I thought to myself oh man, here we go again. Now what? But I began to realize, because when we're say, we're being guided to place our hands over maybe a certain part of the body, why not have someone working with us to help with that? Because we're not the healers, the healing flows through us. So I accepted that's who he was. His name was Joshua.

Lauren: 48:00

Was that another little like breakthrough or did it help you kind of interact with that spirit?

Pam Sears: 48:05

It helped me more to know that I wasn't alone in trying to help people. I knew I had my guides okay but I wasn't alone in trying to do this healing work and this energy work. I wasn't by myself. I had somebody helping me and that made a huge difference for me. Like, just do place your hands. Somebody said how did you know to put your hand over there? And I'm like I don't know.

Lauren: 48:44

You know hands you know, somebody said how did you know to?

Frank: 48:46

put your hand over there and I'm like I don't know. You know, yeah, we're here to awaken to our abilities and to help all, uh, the collective. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, I heard recently that the big end game in all of this is to that. We're like, basically, you know, we call ourselves human beings, but we are learning how to fully be human being, to develop to our full potential, and then, I don't know, I'm assuming, move, move that forward to the next incarnation of some kind yeah, yes, yes I mean, that's such an interesting concept to me it almost helps you put things, helps me put things into perspective of everything.

Frank: 49:19

In between is either a distraction or a lesson to learn, and once, you get yeah once you get to the point where you can like, evolve yourself and evolve those around you, then you're doing the thing you're supposed to be doing. So that comes back to like why I was asking about, like everyone, that were surrounded by being led to helping, helping people in some way, which is such a basic want to to want to help people, but also it's the the whole reason why we're here in the first place potentially so yeah it's.

Frank: 49:47

It's no small feat, it's and it's no. While it's common, it's also novel at the same time right, yeah, yeah, yes, what a conversation, awesome, yeah pam, do you have any, uh, any final thoughts? And and uh, man, I don't know. Thank you, thank you for your time.

Pam Sears: 50:06

I I do, you know, I, I was told this a long time ago if you follow your heart, it'll never steer you wrong, okay, yeah. So some people say am I following my heart or am I using my head? You'll know there's a difference. You know the difference, right, okay so, and we all have guides, we all have angels. We can all communicate with our loved ones on the other side. You don't need uh, me, nobody needs me or any other medium to communicate with their loved ones. They can do that all on their own and eventually, if you, you know, let yourself listen, you'll feel, you'll hear, you'll sense that they're there. I just think that we're just guides, helping people find their own way.

Pam Sears: 50:51

And you know, and I'm also focused on, like, we talked a bit about this, about children, and children, you know, were there to help the children, because actually, some of them are helping us. When you think about it, they're born cracked wide open and that's one of the reasons why I wrote a children's book. Yes, I meant to ask you about that Children and their spirit guides. Now I focused, and this one's called no, no, nap, and I did write it for my grandson, xander, and I put the no, no, nap because I wanted to have a story. Children's books should have a problem to solve, okay. So what I did was and I'll show you briefly he throws a temper tantrum because he doesn't want to take a nap, okay.

Pam Sears: 51:37

While he's in, timeout is when his spirit guides show up. My illustrator God sent her to me. She had never done such a book. Well, there's hardly any books out there about this. While he's in timeout, look, all his spirit guides show up. Look, that's amazing. And his main guides, liam and Lexi, and they help him understand why gnats are important and how to say sorry to mom and dad. And in the back of the book there is a page just for parents. Oh, that's so great. Just for parents Like, don't be afraid, our little ones see, hear, know's. So great. Just for parents, like, don't, don't be afraid, our little ones see, hear, know spirit. Yeah, be open. Encourage them, because when you know so many times, people say, why did children shut down after a bit? Because we say, oh, you're your imagination, that's nothing, and then we just begin to just forget. I'm hoping that with this book it helps children not forget and to stay open to spirit.

Lauren: 52:40

That's my goal, so I love that and also helps the parents keep the conversation like, healthy, supportive and open.

Frank: 52:49

Yes, so where can people find the book and where can people find you?

Pam Sears: 52:52

I do have it on amazon. It's on amazon. Um, you know I'm an author of three books, but this is the one that I've been real focused on. Yeah, so it is called no, no nap and it is. It's on amazon. Um, there are a lot of reviews. You can go and read those and get a little bit of input. Um, there are some little ones who it's helped a lot because they're already seeing spirit and now with the book, it's helping them understand. Hey, you're okay.

Frank: 53:22

Yeah, I'm going to buy that in 10 minutes.

Lauren: 53:24

Yeah.

Frank: 53:26

And you're on TikTok. Any other social media plugs you got.

Pam Sears: 53:29

I'm on TikTok, I have a YouTube channel, I have an Instagram page. I've kind of not been so much on the book face or the Facebook, shall we say, it was just a lot of troubles on there. So I'm pretty regular on those three platforms. Yes, awesome, we'll link them all.

Frank: 53:52

Pam, thank you so much for talking to us today.

Pam Sears: 53:53

This is such a pleasure, thank you for asking me to be here.

Frank: 53:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think we'll talk to you soon, and I'm definitely about to buy a book.

Pam Sears: 54:03

Thank you, I appreciate that. I mean, I've been donating it to libraries, I've been trying to donate it to, you know, schools, daycares. You know my goal is to reach those children and parents. Yeah, you know, to make things not so taboo, because it's not taboo, oh yeah.

Lauren: 54:24

That's exactly what we're going for. That's how this started.

Frank: 54:27

Yeah, absolutely, we'll put a link, in the show notes too, to the book.

Pam Sears: 54:31

Yeah, okay.

Frank: 54:33

I love that Perfect.

Pam Sears: 54:34

Thank you so much. Thank you, I appreciate it. Nice meeting both of you you as well.

Lauren: 54:40

Thank you so much, Pam We'll talk to you soon, you're welcome Bye, bye, bye.

Frank: 54:49

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