6. Javan Lev Poblador, Young Humanists Special!

On this episode of Humanism Now, we're exploring the inspiring world of young humanists. Our co-host AJ and new panellist Nicole, fellow coordinators of Young Humanist UK share what campaigns and activities motivate Humanists in the 18-35 age range.

Nicole also shares her experience of starting a new humanist group in Leicester and the joys of bringing humanist values to life through meaningful Humanists Ceremonies.

AJ & Nicole share how they became engaged with Humanism and offer advice for anyone looking to set up a new group or attract more young members. In discussing events and campaign that encourage greater engagement, we explore the alignment of humanism with climate and social justice activism.

In this week's guest interview ,  Javan Lev Poblador, International Coordinator for the Young Humanists International Group, provides insights in to the Global Young Humanist movement, describes the state of humanism in the Philippines and highlights some of the lesser known human impacts of the growing climate crisis.

Finally, in our mailbag section we discuss what events and campaign topics appeal most you Young Humanists.

Episode references:

• Leicester Humanists Launch Event, with Andrew Copson,  8 Nov 2023
• Young Humanists UK
• Young Humanists International
• HUK: Setting up a local group

About Javan Lev Poblador:

• Young Humanists International 
• YHI on

Transcript

James H: 0:00

Hello and welcome to episode six of Humanism, now the podcast brought to you by the Central London Humanists. My name's James, your host, and this week all about young humanists. Who are they, what do they care about and how can more young people get involved in humanist movements? To discuss this and more, we're delighted to be joined later by Jay Van, the chair of Young Humanist International. But to kick things off, I'm delighted to be joined by our regular co-host, aj Hi.

AJ: 0:28

James.

James H: 0:28

And for the first time, I'm delighted to welcome a new panelist here, Nicole, fellow coordinator, young humanist alongside AJ. Nicole, thanks for joining us. How are you?

Nicole : 0:38

I'm very well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be making my debut today.

James H: 0:43

Well, it's our pleasure. So, since this is your first time on Humanism Now, I think it'd be great to learn a little bit more about you and your route to humanism. So, nicole, tell us a bit more about yourself and how you came to be involved with the Young Humanist Group and CLH.

Nicole : 0:59

Absolutely. So I have been a humanist since I was about 12, I think, like many people, but I didn't really realise it until a few years ago. It was in the pandemic. Actually, I was looking for some meaning in my life and something to do and something to focus myself, and I came across humanism. And then during that I was like, oh, I've already, I was living by all these things. I agreed with all these things and this is a wonderful way to meet like-minded people and put good things into the world.

Nicole : 1:28

So I decided to get involved in I guess it was 2021 or 2020, like I said during the pandemic, and through that I started volunteering with young humanists because, as a young person myself, I thought that was a good place to start, and since then I've really kind of got stuck in with all elements and quite proud to be a young person representing in all those elements. So I'm a school speaker, I do interfaith dialogue, I've just set up a local branch. So I live in Leicester and so I've just set up a local branch of humanists here, which is very exciting and very new, and the biggest thing that I do is I'm a humanist funeral and wedding celebrant. So that's what I do now for my real job, as it were.

James H: 2:13

I think you might be our second humanist celebrant to join the panel. We are hoping to cover this in more detail, but I just wondered if you could share a little bit more about what that involves and what that's been like as a career for you.

Nicole : 2:29

Absolutely. So obviously we understand the humanist philosophy and I'm sure most people listening completely understand it. So the meaning in the ritual and community aspects come from ourselves and what we interpret and what we interpret to be the meaning, rather than something spiritual or supernatural. So a lot of traditional meaning in funerals and weddings comes from the fact that it's a God looking or something like that, or the religion or things about the afterlife. But of course, as people who don't believe in that, those things ring hollow. So to replace that with something meaningful to us and for those majority of people now who don't believe in those sorts of things is really, really meaningful and it's really wonderful to see how my work really impacts people.

Nicole : 3:16

So I think as humanists, a lot of us get caught up in over intellectualising and over philosophising, which is something that I love. But to really see humanism in action, on the ground, as it were, being like I'm going to deliver this meaningful funeral to tell the story of somebody's life and help people with the grieving process, that's kind of really what it's all about and seeing what it is in function and humanist funerals and weddings are completely personalised. So it's a lot about getting to know the people you're working with for a long time, working with them over a really long period of time just to get to know them and make sure you're doing what they want and something that's meaningful to them, not a generic process. So, yeah, it's really, really meaningful to me. I really, really enjoy it and I think it's a really good thing that we can deliver as humanists.

Nicole : 4:09

And it's a lot of how people find out about humanism. Actually, they attend usually a funeral and they're like, oh, this philosophy is exactly what I thought and that's exactly what I've always believed. And you do get some very funny comments from religious people afterwards who say, oh, you know, for a funeral without God, that was really meaningful. And after being not sure if I should be slightly offended, and then you're like, okay, they mean that as a compliment. So, yeah, it's a really fulfilling word.

James H: 4:39

It certainly sounds like it's projecting a very positive invitation to humanism and I've definitely heard that reflected elsewhere, that it's one of the ways that more and more people are discovering humanist values, and I think that from most of the stats, the celebrants, celebrations, or particularly weddings, funerals, baby namings are becoming more and more popular, absolutely, and I'd be interested to know a little bit about your experience setting up the group in Leicester. When was that founded and how's it been?

Nicole : 5:14

going. So it's in very early stages because our launch event is in just over two weeks, I think. So so far we've just had some pre meetings. So we're very lucky that we had a really strong core of people connected through the dialogue network. So Jeremy Rodal, who's in charge of the dialogue network, he emailed all of us, said, hey, there's now six of you in Leicester, do you want to get together? And then we did and we're like why is there not a wider group, community group for us here? So we've decided to set it up. So we've been planning for about six months.

Nicole : 5:51

I'm very lucky to have lots of intelligent, hardworking people already on our committee, even though we haven't really started yet. But it's been really good. We've done some pre meetings and it's been very interesting seeing who's come, what their ideas are for humanism in the city, how we can make it uniquely a Leicester thing because Leicester is quite a unique place and what our point will be and how we can make it make sure that we're attracting a diverse range of people, but particularly young people. I think that myself and some other younger people we've already got. We're hoping that it's going to be partly a self fulfilling prophecy. If you've got younger leadership. You know how to attract more younger people.

James H: 6:32

Congratulations and all the best of luck with it and thank you very much for leading us on to our main topic here today. So, for those who are not aware, Nicole and AJ are UK coordinators for the Young Humanist Group, which sits as part of Humanist UK. So we wanted to take the time today really to do a bit of a deep dive into young humanists, what perhaps makes this group unique and particularly the issues and campaigns that young humanists are most passionate about. So I guess probably the best place to start is AJ and Nicole. How would you define a young humanist?

AJ: 7:10

Yeah, so the 18 to 35 age range is what we usually take in Humanist UK and we follow young humanists international will be hearing from Jay Van Lescher on the podcast and they also take it from the UN, so it's quite a broadly used age definition category for NGOs and charities. So it's a very rough boundary and of course we always welcome people who are young at heart, even if they are in a pushing the age range, as I am, and it's good to have Nicole and hopefully some other actually young people on the podcast representing young humanists rather than just my aging visage. I'm 32, so I'm not got long left in Young Humanist UK. But that age range was chosen particularly to focus on and we'll discuss a bit about this when we get to the demographics and humanist students and universities a bit later. But we feel that, looking at other faith and belief groups, they really capture young people, you know, sometimes in quite a cynical way, which you know we want to be wary of. But exposure to humanist ideas at that very formative period and particularly as they come into adulthood, maybe leave you know home for the first time. We know that many of our members and supporters are apostates, so leaving a family environment and able to spread their wings intellectually and philosophically, can be quite a good time for them to be exposed to humanist ideas. And that's that 1835 age range, the lower end of that age range. And then, as they go through university, they graduate, they come into the world of work. I know that we've talked to a project ideas, james, you've had about humanizing work, humanizing life, humanizing relationships, etc. So those are projects that maybe come down the line in the UK humanist community and partnered with Humanist UK. We also have other projects in the pipeline, such as Humanist in Tech and the Humanist Business Network, which I tried to get going a few years ago, but I think now we've got some renewed effort in that.

AJ: 9:14

So we're trying to offer young people a pipeline that can not only enable them to be more active in society and young people are very, very socially active. There's very. You just have to look at the headlines to see what the social justice issues are environmental justice, which Jayvon and you talked about a lot in the upcoming interview later on this podcast. So allow them to engage and have a framework for them to engage with other like-minded people and also with other faith and belief group activists and also the wider public at large on these social justice issues, but not just using them as activists, but we also want to give back to them and ensure that their personal development as humanists, as free thinkers, as rationalists, as agnostics, secularists and atheists that's also developed, as well as their career as well, through the networks humanist networks, humanist and tech networks, humanizing work, ethical considerations around work and pay, and also social justice in the work environment as well, and also relationship.

AJ: 10:16

So we can see that in that formative period that young humanists go through, we really there's a lot for us to do. I mean, we're a very small organization in that sense. We only have a few people on the committee. We're trying to recruit and grow. We're very much supported by Humanist UK as a wider organization and also with links to Javen and his team in what Young Humanists International because Humanist UK is a member of Humanist International and the youth groups both are Young Humanists UK and also other youth groups, for example in Norway, in Italy, in other parts of the world, are also connected to Humanist International. So that's kind of a flavor of what Young Humanists are and how we try and pitch Young Humanists UK activities.

Nicole : 11:03

It's not trying to be, I suppose some all the humanists who dislike the separation between young and not young, but that's not the point of it at all. It's more showing young people how humanism can be a boon and a positive for their lives. And there's certain things that, while important to young people, we might not focus on. So I'm sure you'll know that one of Humanist UK's big campaigns is assisted dying, and that's something I really care about, something quite a lot of young people will actually think is important, but hopefully it's not something we're actually thinking about for our own lives, because hopefully we won't die for quite a long time, whereas obviously a lot of people who are reaching much older age are going to. That's going to be their focus.

Nicole : 11:48

It's kind of framing things with a future, a long future, in mind. So that's one of the reasons that climate activism is such a big thing among younger people and not just within humanism either. But we have longer to live on the world and lots of people are thinking about whether they want children, even what the future for their children is going to be like. So a lot of it's framing it and, like AJ said, things like career development, because lots of people come to humanism when they're retired, so they don't necessarily need those things, either for self-development or career development because they've had a long career. But for people who are just starting out, just left university, showing them that hey, here's this, volunteering you can do, meet new people, maybe even find the career you actually want through volunteering opportunities and through how humanism can help you develop in that, I suppose we can also mention a bit about what our presence looks like on the ground in terms of the meetings that we organise.

AJ: 12:48

A lot of what we do is online, so Young Humanist UK is a national presence, as opposed to the local groups such as Central London Humanists and other international groups like Young Humanist International. A lot of our activities are online, but we do also organise local socials. So, for example, around the major keynote events and the annual conference that the UK has this year was in Liverpool we had a very successful social that was organised as part of that, while everyone's a lot of humanists are in the same town. And also, for example, we have a Voltaire lecture coming up and there'll be a humanist social associated with that. There'll be other future socials, for example in the Darwin Day lecture next year in February and the Bosnian-Franklin lecture. So when there are major humanist UK events, we organise socials in that town to go along with that event. But also even when there is no event, we may pick a certain area where we have newly recruited an ambassador, for example, and then have a social there. So socials are a big aspect of it, because I think that's one way that young people are really looking to get involved with and have an easy onboarding ramp into finding out what humanist UK and also what young humanists is and sort of pull the curtain back a bit.

AJ: 14:03

Nicole and I just had a meeting earlier today with an LSE student union group called Humanist Open Mind and watched this space. There'll be more information coming out of this ahead, but that's part of our humanist students' outreach, which is also part of humanist UK and young humanist remit, because 18 to 35 is that university age range, as you mentioned before. So partnering with student union societies and helping them find their humanist identity, benefit from humanist UK patrons and speakers and keynote contacts in that network and also benefiting from our business and tech humanist and tech network, for example these are all things that we can do as a working in partnership with societies such as the Humanist Open Minds and ideally we'd like to see young humanist societies or humanist UK societies open in all of the major UK universities. We have a very good, open and very good relationship with Sussex Uni and the lead chaplain there, james Croft, who I'm sure will have on the podcast at some point who's the first humanist lead chaplain for the university chaplaincy team in any UK university. He's ex-Harvard, ex-oxbridge, really, really a complicit and also just an amazing and fun person to talk to and you can see why he makes such a good chaplain.

AJ: 15:29

So when there's universities like that that already have some humanist elements in their staff and administration and their well-being teams, we're going to target those as opportunities to then have a young student, young humanist student society in that university and then they can then interface with the local humanist group. For example, there's a local humanist group in Brighton and Sussex Uni is nearby. So in this way we can build up a patchwork of humanist communities, young humanist communities, to complement the already existing partner groups and sections and branches that make up the rest of humanist UK. And we're learning how to do this from our international contacts young humanist international, humanist international and what other people, for example in the US, have done with their humanist networks, with what the rationalist students have done in India, for example, with their networks. So they're very much inspired by our brothers and sisters in humanist networks around the world and we're trying to apply that here in the UK.

James H: 16:28

Now that's great, thank you. I'm surprised to hear there aren't more university groups already set up. I'm sure we'll have listeners, whether they're at university or they are in employment, but perhaps fall in that young humanist category, who may be wondering how they can find a local group. Nicole, since you've been through this experience quite recently, if someone was wondering how they could find fellow young humanists, or just fellow humanists, and start a group, either through their university or just through where they are regionally, what would be your recommendations for someone looking to start or find fellow humanists to connect and engage with?

Nicole : 17:09

Yeah, well, if somebody lives in the city, then that's a great place to start, because there's quite most cities in the UK I'd say probably most or you do have humanist groups and then reaching out seeing what they're doing.

Nicole : 17:22

If you're near the city, there's a lot of active groups and there's even some in some quite random places when we were doing our research setting up Lester humanists there's some quite small. There was a small village in Rutland that seems to have a local humanist group that I never would have thought if I wasn't looking at the map. But then yeah, if it doesn't exist, I'd say if you are a student at university, that's a great place to start, because lots of students at university are interested in intellectual science, epistemological things and lots of them will be humanists without knowing it. So if you would start a humanist group, there'd be lots of people, even if they're not pure humanists, would be interested in that. Lots of people like debate, discussion, again, also finding groups that are similar. So a debate group, for example, would probably have a lot more people who are humanistically inclined.

AJ: 18:18

Philosophy groups.

Nicole : 18:19

Yeah, philosophy, anything like that In terms of oh yeah, and then, if you're not a student again same sort of thing you could reach out to the Humanist UK head office. They've got really good resources for contacting people in areas being like I'm in Northampton or whatever. Be like how many humanists are here. Can you help me connect with the people who Because there's lots of people who are active and lots of things in humanist UK school speaking, being a celebrant, being a pastoral carer, and so there'll definitely be people in your area that have similar groups In terms of why there's very few student groups.

Nicole : 18:59

I was talking to I think it was Andrew Copsson.

Nicole : 19:01

He was saying that the student interest in humanism has gone in big waves and there was a really big one in the 70s and I'm not sure what actually triggered that, but that made a whole generation of humanists.

Nicole : 19:14

Then it dipped down and then for people our sort of age Richard Dawkins, the God Delusion and the other horsemen of new atheism all came out when we were young teenagers and I think that was quite influential to quite a lot of people. So when I know, when I was at university, there was quite a lot of humanist groups and active humanist groups and skeptic groups and that sort of thing. But lately, and particularly since the pandemic, those things have kind of fallen by the wayside, particularly in favor of things like environment, police use, lgbt. Of course we know that those things are huge things within humanist thought, but I think not people don't necessarily know that. So I think having a student group that was like, if you're a humanist, we massively care about LGBT rights, the environment, all this sort of thing. So it's a lot more of an all-encompassing thing than the specific interest. So I think there'd be lots of students that would be interested.

James H: 20:08

Yeah, I definitely think having more public events and speakers that are around these topics, or just having speakers they may not be talking about humanism directly or philosophical topics directly, but just identifying as I am a humanist this is what I believe as part of their wider worldview I think it makes a huge difference. So I would suspect it does go in the waves of when the books are on trend, for sure.

Nicole : 20:31

I was at a university just the other day because it was a volunteering fair, so we went as less to humanists and obviously, when you're explaining from the ground what humanism is, when someone might have no idea, but I think that's it Just if you're a student being an ambassador for what being a humanist is, which is a lot of being a good person, but being a critical thinker and all these sorts of things and telling people what humanism is, because, yeah, they said, it's awareness on the ground of what it is as a thing, even if people aren't. It just that it's a valid philosophy.

AJ: 21:03

The way that we have structured young humanists as well, having executive committee that's nationally responsible, but then having local ambassadors we mentioned before. That also helps us make sure, ensure that there's a humanist representation on, for example, interfaith panel debates and discussions, where there may be a Hindu representative, a Jewish representative, a J and a C, but very often they all leave out a secular representative. And it's changing now. For example, my face is a bit more well known in London, but there's the whole rest of the country and by the big cities like Manchester, birmingham, leeds, et cetera, but we need more ambassadors there. So if people who are listening either at university or outside of university would like to get involved, please do contact us at young humanists on socials, because that's something that we can easily make happen and there is a massive doth of humanists, young humanist views, out there and we can provide the training and the guidance and how.

AJ: 22:01

So, for example, we just had an opportunity to come up recently for a young humanist two young humanists to speak and represent humanist UK at a dialogue forum and meeting with a VIP from the US Embassy, so that in London it's a London-based opportunity. So those kinds of opportunities are just invaluable. Through volunteering with young humanists. I got to represent humanist UK and humanist international at International Ministerial Conference last summer, again in London, with 800 faith and belief representatives and diplomats from all over the world, from every country, and the UK from Commonwealth office was hosting it and Nicole also was there as well and we both prepped together. It was that was a great opportunity and then we can then bring back the learnings that we got from those opportunities to our ambassadors and provide training within the young humanists team and the volunteer team. So those are the kind of development opportunities that we feel they're there and they're ready to be snapped up. Just needs people to step forward.

James H: 23:04

If anybody is listening and they'd like to be involved, feel free to reach out to us. We're happy to help make some introductions as well here at Humanism. Now, Just one point I'd like to pick up on. I think you both touched on the two key issues that really motivate and energize young people at the moment. One is obviously in climate action, the other this broad range of topics which constitutes social justice. I'd be interested to understand what you see as the relationship between both of those topics really, but maybe we could start with social justice. When you're talking to young people, do you think it's easy to inspire them to humanism through the causes of social justice?

Nicole : 23:38

Yeah, I think that particularly if someone was already interested in that sort of thing and already an activist or wanting to be an activist within that sort of thing, I think that could definitely attract them because we can be like obviously, while humanists don't have a monolithic viewpoint, we'll largely agree about specific things. So, for example, being a homophobe, you couldn't be a humanist and a homophobe at the same time. That doesn't make sense. But those sorts of things and projecting that, like being pro-social justice, is kind of inherent to humanism. And when you look at the history of humanist activism, even just in Britain but in the world, a lot of it is the social justice movements. So a big example is humanist UK was one of the huge pushes for legalizing same-sex marriage in the UK.

Nicole : 24:29

And I think when people hear about that sort of thing they're like oh, it's not just people sitting around talking about science and how they don't believe in God, because it's not, as we know.

Nicole : 24:39

And we can have these philosophical, interesting discussions and debates about the little details within those sorts of things, but ultimately humanism on the ground is this sort of activism and caring about people and human dignity is kind of number one and I think that seeing it in a functional light, I think having both of those parts of humanism, both the function and then the interesting intellectual sides, they work together as one and I think bringing an intellectual voice to some of these social justice movements is really interesting because a lot of the time it's driven by pure emotion, and obviously there's nothing wrong with emotion and these things are emotional. But if you're trying to convince someone of your position, having a reasoned argument with emotional elements is far better than just kind of crying and screaming because you see, in a lot in like modern discourse and about people's opinions, it becomes a very either angry or sad and without much actual discussion, and I don't think that's helpful for anybody.

AJ: 25:39

I can pick up on just what Nicole said there about the toxic emotional aspect and the very reactionary aspect of some of the discussions online. We've mentioned before how there are a lot of young people who are very passionate about a lot of issues there's also a lot of anxiety about the future and then bring into that mix maybe, a vacuum created by, maybe a lack of humanist representation. I'm not saying it's all our fault, but I really think that there's something positive. We could have contributed to that, and I'm referring to the Andrew Tates of the world and the Jordan Peterson's, especially Andrew Trey for young people where they do want to care about things like foreign wars, wealth, inequality, there's a lot of key issues that affect their daily lives, but the framework they've been given is one of scapegoating, is one of emotionally potent over-sympathications of issues that even amongst themselves don't make sense. I mean, I think it's from what I've seen, the Andrew Tates phenomenon. He's just seems to be able to scam people, if not abuse people directly. So they're also being led down the garden path of follow me and you'll get the ultimate truth and the matrix will be exposed. I mean, these are in any cold light of day. These are quite childish and immature ways to approach any issue, let alone something as serious as, for example, sex or gender or the wealth pay gap and so many other structural inequalities and injustice and our society.

AJ: 27:03

So because we've not, as Nicole said, maybe in the 70s, and then there was an uprising, and then there wasn't now, even though there are plenty of young people with non-religious views I mean some of the latest surveys Humanist UK has reported, and also the British Shows Plagitude Survey from 2019, suggests that 65 to 70% of young people around the 25 age group are non-religious. They have no daily relevance for supernatural beliefs or practice at all in their lives, regardless of what their parents or their families may make them do or expect them to do once in a while, maybe on Ramadan or maybe on Easter or maybe on Christmas. Regardless of that, they individually, personally, internally, have no intrinsic religious views, religious faith, supernatural faith. So they're there, but we've, in a sense, we've dropped the ball. So I think that's not a cause. It's a cause for consideration and sober reflection, but it's also a challenge and it shows us that the capacity and the head groove to grow. The ceiling is way, way above us. So there's a lot that we can do if we mobilize the correct resources.

James H: 28:07

Why is there that disparity? We do find, as Nicole mentioned, most people who into humanist groups tend to be perhaps perhaps later in life or approaching retirement age, maybe because they have more time. But why do you think there might be that gap at the moment?

Nicole : 28:23

Well, the big one is that not everyone who's not religious is a humanist. As we know, they might be quite aligned with a lot of humanist views, and I think most people are, but there are lots of people nowadays, particularly younger people and I noticed this in my daily life who are into something, something else, and it's usually not organized religion. Formal religion they're not. They wouldn't call themselves a Christian or a Hindu or a Buddhist or anything. But what they are and what they do believe is something spiritual and usually kind of a patchwork of spirituality. And I think that within younger people there is this kind of need for individuality and I think you see it especially with the internet. There's people being like oh, this is my, I'm not following being a Christian, I'm following, I believe in this and this and this, and obviously it's absolutely fine for them to believe that. But so those people don't have a humanist outlook. But obviously a lot of what we do as humanists is to represent people without formal religion, even if they themselves aren't actually humanists. I think as well, it's just the knowledge of humanism. The amount of people I talk to and explain the humanist viewpoint, they're like oh, I've agreed with that for 20 years, but they just had no idea. And then also it's kind of going back to what we're talking about with activism. It's seeing what the point is, because I remember hearing about an atheist group local to me and they called themselves Atheist when I was like 18, 19, and I was an atheist. But I was like what's the point in joining and just talking about how you don't believe in God? And I mean I don't know what that particular group was doing, but, as we know, that's not what humanists do at all, but I think that might be our perception. So a lot of it's getting like the use for daily life and I also think as well it's and this is a kind of educational thing that could be changed.

Nicole : 30:21

I don't know how much we can do, but humanism is very it's not easy answers. Humanism is not a package thing that's like here's what to think about everything. It's use these tools, which is rationalism and empathy and looking for evidence and discussion to decide for yourself. And I think that we live in quite a difficult world at the moment, especially for young people with quite an insecure future, and I think lots of people are quite frightened by that difficult answers and they kind of want easy answers, and that's when you get going back to what Ejah said. People like Andrew Tate, who just escaped goat people and this would get like racism and antisemitism or anything dogmatic or unsimplistic, and I think, unfortunately, quite a lot of people are attracted to that and I think that humanism is the cure for that in many ways, and even if people just take on elements of thinking for themselves more. But I think that's one of the things it's a difficult sell because for the people who don't already love that sort of thing, it can be quite scary.

AJ: 31:25

So, like we discussed before about humanistic spirituality, and that that also is, in my view, a way to feel that void and feel that vacuum where the people are looking for a greater meaning and for in times when the future of the civilization is uncertain, and if they're 20 years old now, they're wondering how they're gonna live another 80 years in this life.

AJ: 31:47

But we already have a lot of the tools and the inspiration if not the easy and quick answers, as Nicole says, because that would be a lie if we tried to give you these in quick answers but that we have the motivation.

AJ: 31:59

We have the tools for people to liberate themselves and to free their own minds and have independent thinking in, for example, the work of Carl Sagan, in, for example, the work of other great figures at the moment Alice Roberts and Roslyn Franklin in the past and great humanist figures whose stories we need to tell and if we tell those stories well enough and if we make the case for, for example, we young humanists and LGBT humanists we were at and we covered it in the podcast at the time the protest to pressure the prime minister, the UK prime minister, to pass the conversion therapy ban for LGBT plus conversion therapy.

AJ: 32:37

So that's a very real. There's thousands and thousands of people in the country that are being subjected to that torture, essentially, and that family pressure and emotional blackmail we can week out day in, day out, and we're part of the movement to make sure that that doesn't happen. That's not a philosophy club, that's not a debating seminar, that's not an ivory tower project of sort of champagne socialists or middle class people with their leisure time. That's actually going to apply to anyone and especially in the context of certain churches and religious practices pressuring people against their to change their sexual identity or gender identity. That can very much affect the working class and the everyday person. So the more that humanism can appeal to that and stay true to those roots, I think, the more effective we will be in changing that balance in the years to come.

James H: 33:22

I certainly think so. Yeah, and as if I can offer a bit of reflections as someone who's a little bit older than your definition of a young humanist, now I do think it's very challenging. Challenging is perhaps the one word. I think it could be quite overwhelming. There's only so much energy you can put towards them and I'm always very impressed by the younger generations and just how ethically motivated and proactive they are, and I think that's a great. It fills me with a lot of optimism for the future. But I can also understand that it's quite overwhelming and I suspect that religion probably isn't seen as a priority or sort of the infringes of the religion can make on people's freedoms. It's probably not the most top priority for a lot of young people. So I definitely think focusing on the positives of humanism, the reason, compassion and open discussion and debate that humanism encourages when approaching these topics Cause I think generally if you engage in well-meaning inquiry, then over time you're going to convince more people to come around to your way of thinking and hopefully make these positive changes that, again, I see is at the heart of most of the youth movements at the moment. Aj, nicole, thank you for all the great work that you're doing. I hope you've played up and best of luck with everything that you have to come.

James H: 34:42

As mentioned earlier, we are delighted to be joined by Jayvan, who is the International Coordinator for the Young Humanists International Group. Earlier today, I was fortunate enough to speak with Jayvan, and here's the interview. Jayvan Lev Podlador is the Young Humanist Coordinator with Humanist International. In this role, he works closely with young humanists worldwide, focusing on their development and growth as humanists. Jayvan has also been active in community work. Javan Lev Podlador is the Young Humanist Coordinator with Humanist International. In this role, he works closely with young humanists worldwide, focusing on their development and growth as humanists. Javan has also been active in community work in environmental conservation, climate justice, human rights and civic engagement since 2012. He is currently the Chief Executive of the Humanist Alliance of the Philippines International and the co-founder and the former pioneer president of the Association of Young Environmental Journalists, a youth-led environmental media organization, and I'm delighted to say that Javan joins us here on Humanism Now, javan. Welcome, hi, javan.

Javan Lev Poblador: 35:49

Thank you for having me here.

James H: 35:51

It'd be great to find out a little bit more about your role, your background and your journey to humanism, and what led you to Humanist International.

Javan Lev Poblador: 35:57

Cool, I'm excited. To start off, I've never been a part of the Humanist Movement that very long, I would say. It started directly being involved in the Humanist Movement in 2018. That was another province here in the Philippines. We didn't have my friends and I. We didn't have like a humanist organization back then. We were basically just atheist groups you know being part of like students in the university, trying to have a community all together. And then we just decided to like one day, buy now if we can formalize the group that we're in. So we reached out to different humanist organizations here in the country and we found out that happy or humanist alliance Philippines International is the one where it's most aligned with us. So we did try to apply our group in the organization.

Javan Lev Poblador: 36:58

And one thing led to another. I was made the lead chapter of happy in the Megati city when I was still staying there and you know we did try to grow the organization from there. So that was in 2018. And then, a few months after, they made me their youth ambassador for happy. And then, after being made a youth ambassador, there was a situation, or it calls for a need, for me to step up to become their chief executive at the end of 2020. And it was also during the time where humanist international opened up like their application for a social media person and also a young humanist international coordinator. So I tried to apply and I was still in school back then. So I tried to apply for these decisions and luckily it got through. So I started working formally at around February of 2021. That's when I was formally affiliated with humanist international.

James H: 38:04

Could you give a bit of a background of the state of humanism in the Philippines?

Javan Lev Poblador: 38:10

If you've also read with the freedom of thought report by humanist international. It was said there that the Philippines is a secular country, but we do have very deep roots in terms of like Christianity or Catholicism, mainly because 300 years of colonialism. So that's how the landscape is in terms of the Philippines. Even the politicians or the government they have the roots as well with the terms of religion. Whoever gets to side more or has like potential bias with the religious leaders tends to be favored mostly by the population or the voting majority. So that's why it's a bit difficult to actually live through, like the separation of church and state.

Javan Lev Poblador: 39:04

Even if it's mentioned in the Philippine constitution, and we find that a problem for us.

Javan Lev Poblador: 39:12

It results through discrimination that only for like LGBT people or other rights that we should have, like divorce we still don't have divorce law in the Philippines and abortion as well.

Javan Lev Poblador: 39:26

Those are very serious topics or rights that we should have, but we don't because of how it is being challenged in our religious system because of religious beliefs. So that's why Hapi was founded in 2014, because we wanted to ensure that Filipinos should at least be able to enjoy this rights that we currently do not have and that we should embody as well what is stated in our constitution, that the country should remain secular. So we have been running campaigns trying to at least move forward, although it is a very difficult process. And one other thing that I could probably point out, just to put into perspective the Philippines is the most friendly LGBT country in the world, but we do not have any anti-discrimination laws yet that protects them. So it's a difficult thing, and we hope that through our humanist values and organization, that is something that we hope we could attain somewhere in the future, although it is a very challenging thing to do and there are only like two humanist organizations in the country. So yeah, the fight is still ongoing.

James H: 40:45

It sounds like there's some of a disconnect between the social norms and the law. Exactly exactly.

Javan Lev Poblador: 40:52

I mean the laws that we have. We even have the fact of the blasphemy laws brought in by the Spanish colony when it colonized us. It's when you try to insult during religious practices, ceremonies, you can be persecuted using this light. So 200 or 100 year old law that is still found in the constitution. And it's quite ironic, like you said, james, that how, even if, how sacred the country is, we still have things that we have to progress into when we can say that we are a progressive country. So, yeah, it's quite ironic, I would say, and hopefully pretty much soon, in a few years from now, we can finally say that the Philippines is much more progressive than how we actually envisioned it as and have you found that membership have been growing with the humanist groups that you're involved with?

Javan Lev Poblador: 41:52

Yeah, there is definitely a need. People have been looking at alternative to religion. That's why we don't even have to degrade religion. People just find the need to come up or search for communities where they actually belong. People have been quite turned off with how religion is currently run in the country.

Javan Lev Poblador: 42:15

Some of the things are. It's a step process. I would say. Like some people would start trying to get a liberal organization like pro-LGBT, pro-abortion rights, pro-devolories, and then, starting from there, they also seek up like other things as well, like if they're atheists or agnostics, then they would go and join humanist organizations. But the thing there is the Filipinos are only familiar with such terms as agnostic or atheists. Humanism or humanists is still quite unfamiliar to them. So there is so, aside from all those campaigns that we need to do, we also need to campaign about mainstreaming the term humanism to them, that it's just more than just being a non-religious or a secular person, but it's what we stand for, what it means and how can you consider yourself as a humanist and how that is different from just being an atheist or an agnostic.

James H: 43:16

I think that's a universal concern and challenge that we all have. So can we talk a bit more about your role at Humanist International? Could you just describe the work of the Young Humanist Group?

Javan Lev Poblador: 43:27

So Young Humanist International was quite different back then. I think it was before 2018 when they had emerged. Young Humanist International and Humanist International were separate organizations. They have different memberships. So you can apply for a membership with Young Humanist International before and you can also apply for a membership with Humanist International as well, but the difference is well, I mean it's obvious that Young Humanist International only accepts young organizations with young members, but it was around the 2018 when the board of Humanist International wanted to merge with Young Humanist International within Humanist International. So that's when Young Humanist International became like a huge arm of Humanist International and for organizations that are a member of Humanist International and if they have younger groups within them, they are automatically already members of Young Humanist International.

Javan Lev Poblador: 44:31

So right now, our main mandate is working with young members of Humanist International. It's not as huge campaigns like what we do with humanist international. As much as possible, we wanted to focus on a youth perspective or youth angle. I mean, we do have, like you know, campaigns, different campaigns regarding that, but we wanted to make it separate without making it redundant. What give this international is all already doing. We do not want to have like a complete copy out of it. So we wanted to have like a youth focus on understanding, you know, what links young people around the world. How can we empower them, how can we support them as well? How can we create a network out of this youth groups that we have?

James H: 45:35

And what have you found to be the unique concerns or campaigns that young humanists are more passionate about?

Javan Lev Poblador: 45:43

I think it's more about, like you know, succession within the humanist organizations. They wanted to have a voice within their humanist organizations, like how their sentiments or feedbacks or comments are actually being considered in the whole organization. And it's further. I think you know, within the past histories we've had younger people standing up to certain campaigns. You know they have been a positive change for good. We know how capable young people are and that's one of the few things that we're doing at Young Come this International is providing them that platform or giving them the voice, because you know they're already doing that within themselves. But we wanted to provide a better scope that, hey, young humanists shouldn't be just pushed aside because just because they're young, but we wanted to make it other people to understand as well, from the senior management point of view, that the young humanists are well capable of doing these things and creating a change for good or positively contributing to the global humanist movement.

James H: 46:54

It's probably a good idea to maybe clarify at this point, when we're talking about young humanists Is there a cut off? Is there an age limit for being active in the group?

Javan Lev Poblador: 47:05

Right. So the main I would say eligibility to be part of Young Come this International would be between 18 to 35. So we're using the UN staple for what we call a youth or a young person. So it's between the 18 to 35 years old and they have to be either a member or an associate of humanists international to be part of it. But one thing, though, I think, one thing that actually works for us is we haven't been too strict about being the membership.

Javan Lev Poblador: 47:44

Like, there are cases where young people are not part of any humanist organizations, but they wanted to be part of a bigger humanist movement. So we do sometimes welcome them within our meetings, welcome them if we have any discussions, like in an online conversation or online meeting, we do invite them. I think one of the successful case studies that we had was on the case of Czech youth in this. So their leader before then didn't have a humanist organization in Czechia and Yirka, or Yiryi, sent us an email that he wants to get involved and I said like, yeah, okay, sure you can join our monthly meetings, you can be part of that. And further along the way, he was interested in how we run things and I think that was one of the few things on why he's convinced to start his own humanist organization and is also young person, so that's a great result.

Javan Lev Poblador: 48:54

Yeah, it is, it is. It's one thing that we've been continually discussing within the staff and within the board on how we can also tap more into the power of young people to like, create humanist organizations in countries where we still don't have humanist organizations that are a member of humanist international.

James H: 49:17

I'm interested to learn a little bit about how all of the campaigns that you're involved with tied together for you. I think I mentioned a lot of the areas that you're involved with in campaigning in your intro. I had to skip a whole lot more things as well. I know you're incredibly busy and active and a lot of that is tied around. It seems to me you know two broad themes. One is humanism, the other is climate action. I suspect from looking at young humanists international, that climate action is probably we know is right at the top of the agenda for young people. How do you see humanism and climate action as related to each other?

Javan Lev Poblador: 50:00

Right Before we go into this, it's important to understand what climate action really is. When people think about the climate, one of the few misconceptions they would probably say for someone who's not really that involved about the climate movement is that they would think it's only about the environment. You know, trees burning up, sea level rise, but it's a much more complicated issue. Everything is interconnected within each other. I do refer to one case study about how there are a lot of child marriages in Africa or in South Asia. Once you look at it in a singular lens, you would think like, how are child marriages connected to the climate? You know, and as humanists we do understand, like there's are the type of things that we fight about.

Javan Lev Poblador: 51:07

But there's the news article cited that because of poverty, like their parents were farmers and how the climate drastically changes over the years, they do not have any livelihood to support themselves and they had to resort to like drastic measures to help themselves and one of the things that they had to do was give up their daughters for child marriages.

Javan Lev Poblador: 51:35

And that's just a few examples. You know we do have child labors and etc. But there's all of the most of the things that we know that we are campaigning for are actually somehow related to climate action, and that's why we wanted to incorporate that into humanism as well, that it's not as far fetched as what other people might think, that it's not just about the environment, but climate action is actually human rights as well, that it affects more than just the animals, the trees, the birds, the fishes. It also affects us humans as well. And the reason why we wanted to start that with young humanists is also for a very good reason that it's going to be the younger generation who's soon going to inhabit the earth. You know, we're going to be the ones who will be feeling the full effects of the climate that we have what we're doing now, and it's only right then that we have to fight for our future.

James H: 52:43

Yeah, it's fascinating to also learn about how interconnected all of these issues really are. So thank you for all your fantastic work. I know you're super busy. It's been a pleasure to speak with you today. A couple of quick things before we go. Just in terms of your involvement in any of these campaigns, is there anything which you've changed your mind on recently?

Javan Lev Poblador: 53:05

I think not really how it changed my mind. It's more of how I've been more passionate, because the longer you've been into the movement, it's more you get to understand things. It opens your eyes into more aspects or circumstances that you might not have known before then. There were some cases that it also put you into different perspective on how you approach things. For example, in terms of climate, it's always been about doom and gloom.

Javan Lev Poblador: 53:41

But once you get into the movement you'll understand that people are so stressed about the climate action. If you just show them how horrible the situation is, there's what we call a climate fatigue. You hear all these things about hey, we're ending the earth in a few years from now. It's getting to most of us. It makes us feel hopeless. That's when being into the movement on how you actually deal with the climate, once you understand how it actually works, it's much better to provide solutions rather than just give up the problems. It is the problem that wakes us up, but it's the solutions, or the positive changes or the positive stories that actually gets us going.

James H: 54:33

Yeah, it's a lot of the time about reframing the challenge, as you mentioned, and talking about how interconnected all of these issues are and trying to appeal perhaps to someone in a different way. But I agree, I mean, we can't be hopeless, we have to be motivated and engaged. Yeah so, jayvan, thank you for helping drive that forward. Just before we go, if anybody is listening and they would like to join or be involved with Young Humanists International, what's the best way to contact the group or contact you directly?

Javan Lev Poblador: 55:02

Well, we do have a Facebook page as well Young Humanists International. They can send a message or they can also look us up at Instagram or Twitter, young Humanists International. You can pretty much find it right away. Or you can also check out the website. You can send a contact there. Just let us know what your concerns are about Young Humanists, and it usually gets forward to me.

James H: 55:27

Thank you so much for your time and thank you for joining us on Humanism Now.

Javan Lev Poblador: 55:32

Thank you, jayvan, thank you for having me.

James H: 55:34

Jayvan Lev there with Young Humanists International. The climate crisis is obviously a very important topic for young humanists currently. A Jayvan, how are young humanists engaging with climate action and what campaigns are you involved with currently?

AJ: 55:52

Just as a disclosure, I should say that I'm a director of Humanists International and the board there oversees the work that Young Humanists International does, and Jayvan has a coordinator and we're really, really lucky to have him and the rest of the team. They do some fantastic work with a global presence. Basically, humanists International tries to be a UN kind of a representative body for all humanist groups around the world. Jayvan, as the membership development officer and also the coordinator for YHI, does fantastic work and please do follow Young Humanists International on socials so you can hear more from him and from our other members. Jayvan is exactly what we need to find more of, essentially. I mean it'd be lovely to have another 50, 100, 500 of him. If you listen to the story that he was telling there and some parts of how I was watching it I wasn't actually aware of in terms of how long he'd been in the climate activist kind of movement before he sort of found humanism movement to that, that's exactly what we want and that was ideal. I'm talking about Young Humanists and that 18 to 35 age range. He was in that age range. He was at school, college, university, higher education and he was already socially active and was emboldened by environmental activism and justice and he found humanism as a good identity for himself and his colleagues as a group, as an organization, and also as an individual identity for him and for other LGBT, plus the community there in the Philippines, which luckily is quite welcoming, despite the laws being quite repressive, as he said. Is that bit of a paradox, but he found that and then he was able to then use and link up with the Philippines equivalent of Humanist UK, which is happy one of the national groups there that he now runs, and he's moved up as an activist from a local chapter leader to a youth ambassador and coordinator, now to the CEO of the national Philippines wide group. So that's a I mean not everyone can follow that route and not everyone should have been. Not everyone goes to university, nor should they, but all of the people that do and that can resonate with Jay Van story, regardless of whether they went to university or not, you can see how he's built a life for himself through that.

AJ: 58:12

And again, not everyone has to go and work for a humanist organization.

AJ: 58:15

Certainly you can be with either another faith and belief group and not be a humanist and work with us in an interfaith partnership kind of way or you can be a none of the above, or you don't have to have the label humanist or course of an agnostic.

AJ: 58:28

Whatever you want to do, and just make sure that you're involved in some way in challenging, in working to challenge some of these civilizational problems such as climate change, such as nuclear war, such as the other scientific, technological changes for example in renewable fuels as well that we need to need to work on. So he's made that for himself and I just continue to be inspired by him the more and more that I work with him, and his understanding of how humanism and climate interacts and how they overlap and how a responsible humanist, a young humanist, can bring to bear the humanist framework to help themselves be a better climber activist, or to be a better social justice activist, or to be a better wealth inequality or prison reform activist. All of these avenues are open if someone makes full use of the wisdom and the experience that's available and the guidance that's available in the humanist movement. So I was very happy that we featured him on the podcast.

Nicole : 59:32

In terms of campaigns.

Nicole : 59:33

It has covered it pretty well in terms of what we're doing, and obviously we have UK humanist climate action as well, which is very similar, you know, doing some of the things.

Nicole : 59:41

I think that the interesting thing about it with the humanist viewpoint is I don't think there's any humanist who would disagree that there is a climate crisis and that we need to do something about it, but exactly what those things are is still being debated, isn't it even?

Nicole : 59:56

You know, obviously we should be science led, evidence led, but there is no clear answer about exactly what we should be doing, and I think that constantly being open to new suggestions, what we as individuals can do and then what we should be campaigning the governments to do as well, because it needs to be both. You know, as individuals, there's only so much we can do. A lot of it is it needs to be on a policy level. So kind of making sure, yeah, just kind of getting involved in like and on the ground, then making sure that we know what we can do as well to help an individual, and I think that'll be a really good thing actually, if I'm sure humanist climate action are doing it, and I'm sure you've had one of them on. But the small and the big things combined to being a climate actionist, yeah.

AJ: 1:00:45

We've not had one of them on yet, but we should do the, and that was founded quite recently humanist climate action. That featured a lot at the Liverpool annual conference earlier this year that we all attended and you can read up more online about that. I just wanted to pick up one thing that Nicole said there about the on the ground, and both of you have mentioned the on the ground effects of what climate action looks like in reality, and Javan had an excellent case, had an example about this, showing how we can use the humanistic, empathy side of things to make climate change much more real. I mean, it's already very real. But again, perception is reality and if some people are saying, well, I don't really care about, you know, sea level rising or forests being destroyed somewhere where I can't see, but actually, in one of the case studies that he alluded to, in some parts of the world, because of what's happening with climate change and we saw this in the Syrian civil war, for example, a lot of the farmers that were driven out of the outer areas, the rural areas in Syria, came into the suburbs, the sort of shanty towns outside of Damascus, and because they were then socially precarious, anxious, frustrated at the government. That became a brilliant, fertile feeding ground for Daesh, for ISIS, to go in there and start recruiting, and then that's that laid the seeds of the civil war.

AJ: 1:01:59

Now, javan, use another example. Use an example of people in Africa having to basically engage in child abuse, human rights violations, child marriages and forced marriages because their crops have failed, because the harvests have failed. Now you wouldn't think that that's immediately linked to climate justice, but for those people, it absolutely is. So people who are passionate about, for example, fgm or sponsoring children so that they don't get forced married off in some parts of the world that do have those practices, they need to be absolutely involved with climate action. Environmental justice and the humanist movement is a brilliant way to do that. So I think he was able to in a story that he told.

AJ: 1:02:40

Javan is able to weave in that humanistic empathy and that sort of realpolitik and that pragmatic nature of which is also a humanist quality as well. We shouldn't lose that, and that's why really value empathy being part of the humanist worldview. It's not just about being a automaton, rationalist, logical you know, pure logical machine that's just sort of got the answer to everything and is busting out with facts and stats. It's also about what's the most empathetic and kind thing to do, which may not always be rationally the most obvious, and thing that's affecting me or the thing that can affect the utilitarian good. It can also be well, this is just something that I really feel passionate about and that gets me up in the morning. It could be, for example, fgm or child marriage, and humanism can offer a way to be active in that particular campaign but also link it with a larger social justice or environmental justice umbrella, which I think Javan described so visibly.

James H: 1:03:40

It's a really inspiring work and it was a fascinating story that he shared, and I think it's another interesting element of the next generation, perhaps even perhaps even younger than you guys you know growing up with I didn't take my chance, though Not just the internet, but sort of the super connectivity that we have for the internet, now that I agree with the point, nicole, that you made earlier that generally maybe young people might have more of, might find more of an individualistic view on philosophy through online content, but also I don't think we've ever been more aware of our place within the global community and able to connect with people in completely different situations and scenarios, and that's only going to increase empathy the more that people genuinely engage with that. So that's another reason, I think, for optimism.

AJ: 1:04:31

We had a World Humanist Day online Zoom meeting that brought together for the first time under the auspices of CLH and it was James's brainchild and an idea.

AJ: 1:04:42

So this year, june 21, world Humanist Day, and we will repeat that again next year. That brought together Kenyan humanists, nigerian humanists, ghanaian humanists, south American Indian humanists, australian humanists all together in one Zoom meeting. It was online but despite that, we really had a feeling of wow, okay, I can put my problems and my challenges in perspective compared to others and also learn from others. And so that kind of feeling and we also coming out of the World Humanist Congress that was in Denmark earlier this year that me and Nicole attended that kind of strength of feeling just to know that you're part of the global movement, not just again, it's nothing wrong having a local group in London or Leicester, but having both of those aspects. Some people like to operate more locally. Some people are more inspired by seeing that larger aspect of the movement. Humanism can provide both and nurturing both both the local and the regional, national and the international. I think we're very lucky to belong to such a movement.

Nicole : 1:05:42

Yeah, I completely agree with Adé. When we've been involved, one of the things that being in Young Humanists has really allowed us both to do is meet the worldwide human community humanist community, sorry and that's been really inspiring because just learning from each other and seeing how completely different the humanist view is depending on what country you're in In Britain we're not the secular country but on the ground we are very lucky. No one's going to kill us for saying that we don't believe in God, whereas in countries where it's fundamentally dangerous to say that it's a completely different kettle of fish. And learning how we can all support each other and help us through unique challenges that we might share or that we might not share, but that we're empathetic towards and can help each other, I think that's really invaluable.

James H: 1:06:34

Very important reminder. Thank you Great. Well, thank you, aj and Nicole for for that fascinating discussion on young humanists. Before we go, we have a question in our mailbag this week. It's come from one of our, a couple of our members at CLH and that both Mark, who's been on the podcast, and Shereen, who we're hoping to debut on the podcast very soon, have asked a couple of questions here that are kind of connected, so I'll put them to you in one, and that is what can be done to increase engagement and attendance of young humanists at events such as the annual convention, and perhaps another another way of asking, that is, what types of events and activities are young humanists most interested in? So, nicole, what would be your advice?

Nicole : 1:07:23

So I think one element is, if there are any young people, it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy I think I alluded to that a little bit earlier in that if you've got a younger person who turns up to an event and everyone there is over 60, obviously there's nothing wrong with the over 60s.

Nicole : 1:07:37

But they might be like this isn't for me, this isn't my social group, I'm not going to keep turning up, whereas if you even have two younger people, then as more younger people turn up, they're like oh yeah, there is, you know, and then you know, being friends with all people of different ages is a really wonderful experience, but you need that variety rather than just one off, I think, for young humanists, like we were saying, activism, I think, is a huge part for some people, and then also the social aspect, I think, is really strong.

Nicole : 1:08:05

We've been talking a lot about young people on the internet and of course it brings a lot of connectivity, but I think a lot of people are lacking a real physical community of younger people and I think having that being like let's just go to the pub we don't need to talk about. Obviously, with humans we'll, of course, end up talking about something interesting, but it's not, oh, let's have this formal debate, it's just let's have a community, and I think, including that as a strong part of it as well, rather than just the formal things. I think that would really encourage young people.

AJ: 1:08:37

And, of course, feeding in there is actually to what someone that you and I know quite well, james Bart Campola from the US, has talked about micro communities and easing that ramp of entry and the onboarding and for people to fall into the community, not necessarily going to a big talk. I mean travel costs are not insignificant nowadays. It was a cost of living crisis and especially London travel. London humanists, especially I mean Mark and Sherina, asked the question are from our colleagues at CLH. We have members coming from all over London and even outside of London as well, so the travel costs and time and the effort is not insignificant. So having online hybrid meetings and mix of those and also in person meetings, which CLH does, and also having young people on the actual committee and part of the organizing, that's also a good way. I think Javan also spoke about this as well and that's something that we as a humanist international board and why it's a team also. And besides, young people can't just be brought in just to do the social media or just to do the graphics or just to be a token young person. They need to be on boards, on committees, on subcommittees. They're in decision making and visible, doing that decision making and coming up with their own programs and given the resources to run with it. Now, that's easy said than done, but at least if you're doing that, that you know be more guaranteed to pay off. Rather than we have the young person, they do the social media. So that's one aspect of it.

AJ: 1:10:02

The other aspect is as organizers and as coordinators, we can do more as well.

AJ: 1:10:07

So we, for example, had seven volunteer free tickets, complimentary tickets to the annual convention, so we can easily use this and we didn't make use of all of them because one of our volunteers had to step back. So that's also the opportunities that we have at the young, the new scientist expo that I spoke about in previous podcast. Nicole was also there as well. That also we can allow. We can invite our fellow volunteers to join us to those kind of events the US Embassy event and other other headline VIP dialogue and interfaith event. Those opportunities, as we said at the start of the show, provide both the social aspect and you're giving to the community and your volunteer and your time, and also the other side of the twofold purpose, the other side of the coin. You're also benefiting and developing your skills and career in the NGO, interfaith charity and other related volunteer space by engaging in that. So offering that as a package and as a pitch I think should make it quite attractive for people in that 18 to 35 age range.

James H: 1:11:12

So just before we go, Nicole, I know you mentioned that you've got a launch event coming up for the Lester Humanists. Would you like to just share a bit more information in case any listeners are in the local area?

Nicole : 1:11:22

Absolutely so. While they're called Lester Humanists, it's anyone who's in Lestershire or indeed thinks that Lester isn't too far away from them. So our official launch event it's going to be on the 8th of November, which I believe is Wednesday. It's at the exchange bar which is in Lester City Centre and Andrew Copton is coming to give a little talk about the state of humanism in the UK and what he does. For anyone who doesn't know who's listening, he's Humanist UK's chief exec and also the president of Humanists International, so he knows a lot about the state of humanism both in the UK and internationally, and it should be really good. We've sent out emails to anyone who's a Humanist member in Lester but in case you've either missed them or weren't sure, come along. It should be really fun. The exchange is a cool bar. It'll just be quite relaxed. It's just a nice place to meet everyone and kind of start our local community. So it should be really good.

James H: 1:12:17

Great, that's it for another week of humanism. Now Just remain to thank AJ and Nicole.

AJ: 1:12:23

Bless James, thank you.

Nicole : 1:12:25

Thank you, it's been wonderful.

James H: 1:12:28

And wish once again Nicole all the best of luck with the new launch and thank you both for your work with young Humanists, and we will speak to you next week.