24. Lori Marriott on Humanist Climate Action

"A key tenet of humanism is empathy. Whether that's empathy for those around us or to all humans, but also we should extend that to all life of exists, and then forward in time, to future generations." - Lori Marriott

This week, Katia & Mark join the panel to discuss the merits of identifying with the humanist label. Plus we hear from Lori Marriott, Coordinator of Humanist Climate Action.

References:

• Humanists UK: Defining Humanism
• Humanists International: What is Humanism?
• Humanists UK: How Humanist are you Quiz?
• UnderstandingHumanism.org.uk: Five Core Features

Follow Lori Marriott & Humanist Climate Action:

• Follow Lori on X
• HCA Homepage
  • Sign up for newsletter
  • Read past newsletters
  • Email HCA: climateaction@humanists.uk
  • Follow HCA on Facebook, Instagram, and X

Lori's References:

• Green your pension: how you can help the environment
• Not the End of the World, How to be the First Generation to Build a Sustainable Planet, Hannah Ritchie
• Climate Disinformation, European Commission

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to Humanism. Now the podcast from the Central London Humanists. I'm your host, james Hodgson. This week, we will be discussing how do you know if you're a humanist, does it matter if people identify as humanist, and what role should climate action take in humanist campaigning? Plus, we'll have our interview with the coordinator for humanist climate action, laurie Marriott. So, to discuss all of this and more, I'm delighted to be joined by two fellow committee members at the Central London of Humanists, Katia and Mark. Welcome back to the show, and our icebreaker question this week for you both is what is your favourite time of the day and why so, katia, I'll come to you first. Welcome back. And what's your favorite time of the day and why so, katia, I'll come to you first. Welcome back, and what's your favorite time of the day?

Speaker 2: 0:49

Hi James, Thanks for having me back. I think my favorite time is really early in the morning, when everything is still quite quiet and the day hasn't quite started yet. I'm an early riser. It's kind of the moment when I can really just reflect, and not on something specifically, I'll. You know I do that a bit later in the day, but I just let my mind drift and it allows me to kind of recap what has happened, think about you, know what it means and have an easy kind of start to the day. It can be a little bit nerve-wracking, but most of the time it's quite positive. But it has to be when the phone isn't yet ringing, when you're not expected to be anywhere yet.

Speaker 1: 1:38

Fantastic. And Mark, welcome back again. And same question to you what's your favorite time of the day? Yeah, Hi.

Speaker 3: 1:43

James, and thanks for having me back looking forward to this. Uh, yeah, I actually like mid-morning, so I'm sort of sequentially following on from katya, because I'm not particularly uh good at the very beginning of the day. I like to takes me a little while to get going and, uh, by mid-morning I've sort of done all the necessary tasks and, uh, I often sort of get my my um early morning admin out of the way as well, checking emails and stuff. So by mid-morning I feel like I've got. I've got everything I needed to do that didn't necessarily want to do done, and now I'm ready. It's still still plenty of the day left and I'm sort of looking forward to what comes up.

Speaker 1: 2:20

Yeah, it seems there's a common theme there.

Speaker 1: 2:21

It's when is the best time to reflect and think.

Speaker 1: 2:25

So I think for me, one of my favourite things is to go for a morning walk as soon as I wake up, so if I can time that with sunrise, I do find that a great time to plan the day and, similarly, be alone with my thoughts and try to start the day as we need to go on.

Speaker 1: 2:42

So thank you very much for that. Now our main theme this week comes from a couple of conversations which I've had recently where I've been discussing both involvement with the Central London group and running this podcast, where people I've met have said that they're familiar with humanism, they understand all of the main um values and beliefs and they respect and agree with them all, but they don't necessarily feel that they should identify with the label being humanist um. So I thought this was an interesting discussion to have, particularly with two fellow members of the committee here. Um really around. Is it important to identify with the term? When did we as members of the committee realize that we were humanist, or decide that we were humanist? As a sort of opening question Katia, how and when did you realize that you were a humanist?

Speaker 2: 3:39

This is a question I've been asked, and I ask this of other people as well, because you get to know them quite a bit from the answer. So it's not a particularly short answer. I didn't know much about humanism before I came to London, to the UK. I'd lived in Mexico and the US and in France. So when I came to the UK, to London, I didn't know many people. I wasn't looking for a humanist group particularly. I was actually looking for a book group. I wanted a nonfiction book group and so I went along to the Central London Humanist Book Group.

Speaker 2: 4:14

Later I found out that it was a humanist, that it was organized by humanists. I got to know the people in the group, found them friendly, found myself being like minded with them. So it was through spending time, you know, socializing, meeting humanists, that I realized that we shared a lot and therefore I was also a humanist. We would need to talk about books, was also a humanist. We would meet to talk about books.

Speaker 2: 4:47

Then, you know, I started organizing theater. All that kind of topics where we would share, socialize over, made me realize that we shared the same not exactly the same values, because it doesn't have to be a perfect fit in my opinion, but enough that I wanted to spend more time with them. And eventually I wanted to help and I wanted to be on the side of the people organizing the events, so that there would be more events like the ones that had allowed me to find this fabulous group of people. So I joined the committee, but so it was kind of a almost by chance that I learned about humanism. And then, you know, as soon as I was offered a place on the committee, I took it.

Speaker 1: 5:40

I think that's interesting. Yeah, this idea of shared activities can often lead to realizationisation of shared values, and really we're talking about a sense of belonging community here as well. So, yes, I think, whilst people can agree with the values, it's whether you actually want to socialise and be part of an active group, I think, makes a big difference, mark. How about for you? When did did you first realize that?

Speaker 3: 6:03

uh, you identified with the humanist label uh, yes, uh, just just a quickly comment on what katya said. I think it that's a really great point about you don't have to sort of come to humanism from a sort of uh, a philosophical point of perspective. You can. You know, our group is a is a community group that runs social and educational events and people can, anybody can come along and find out. You know sort of what's my osmosis, whether or not humanism is for you. So I just, you know, I just that was a really great point For me.

Speaker 3: 6:33

It was a little bit different in that I think I always knew I was. I knew what my values were in terms of not being religious, being non-religious all my life and also being a secularist as well, wanting to see a more secular society and also having broadly progressive values. And I'd always found that the main outlet for those sorts of values would be political parties. But the problem I have with that is they can be, you know, divisive and toxic and, uh, you know there's a focus on getting elected which drives a lot of negatives within the political sphere. So, whereas something more values by. So when I sort of came across humanism, which I think was probably around about the early 2000s. Um, I immediately thought well, here is something that reflects my values, but isn't party political, isn't't divisive, is much more of a unifying sort of foundational force. So, yeah, that was what really drew me to it, and when I first became aware of it this was quite a long time ago, this was probably about 2005,.

Speaker 3: 7:37

There was an early iteration of this group, central London Humanists, before we became what we are now, a sort of really large group. So I went to some of their events, including a really interesting talk by Stuart Lee, the comedian, who was talking about Jerry Springer, the musical and how he'd written I think it's called the Libretto for that. So, yeah, and then I disengaged for quite a long time, but that was really how I first got involved. And then, more recently, my involvement with this group sort of resumed through doing the One Life course which was organized by this group and I think Katya was probably involved in the first running of that. I know Damien was, and so, yeah, that was a really um, good introduction uh to me, and I sort of learned more about what humanism really was as well through doing that I think that's definitely true.

Speaker 1: 8:32

A lot of people discover it, uh, discover what humanism is, potentially sometime before they fully sign up to saying yes, that's what I am, and I think, because we're not a group that's known for, um, you know, evangelizing necessarily and trying to convert people um, that it can tend to be more of a slow process, and I guess that that point about, uh, it's very important not for us to be too academic.

Speaker 1: 8:59

I think we can sometimes humanism can sometimes be quite an academic pursuit, but actually it is about the, the social elements, as the type of people that you want to socialise with, and I think that that is important in the types of events which we run, as well for any other local groups to really have a mixture of the events.

Speaker 1: 9:16

As you say, some people find it through the book group, some through the talks and the socials, and we definitely see in our community that there are different pockets of the membership that like to come along to each series of events, and that's how we've managed to grow the community. I think I guess one of the things that came out in the conversations that I was having was this idea of whether there is a set list of beliefs that people would have to subscribe to or sign up to if they were to say, yes, I am a humanist, subscribe to or sign up to if they were to say, yes, I am a humanist. And I think that's where there can be the final hurdle of hesitation, of saying, well, I don't necessarily want to sign up to something. And I know, mark, for you said obviously this is not a political movement and of course we're known for not having dogma, but do you think there are any beliefs that we would expect of fellow members of the group if they were to say I am a humanist?

Speaker 3: 10:06

Yes.

Speaker 3: 10:06

So I think expect of fellow members of the group if they were to say I am a humanist, uh, yes, so I I think that this is a really interesting question because I think that, uh, you know, in a non-party sense, humanism is quite a liberal uh movement, um, and it's, it tends to be quite, you know, tolerant, non-dogmatic and uh, and very open-minded, and so I think, in a way, there's almost a there's a there's a crisis in liberalism, in a sense that you know, by not being if we're so non-dogmatic, and so I think, in a way, there's almost a, there's a there's a crisis in liberalism, in a sense that you know, by not being if we're so non-dogmatic and so non-assertive in our views, we almost sort of stand aside and allow others to to trample over us, but so, so I think that quite a lot of people do have that issue.

Speaker 3: 10:38

Where they don't, then it's almost like a humanists are instinctively non-joiners, so, but I personally think there are some things, some fundamental values that are important to humanists and you sort of, if you don't believe in those things, then then you probably aren't a humanist. So I think you know being rational and open-minded, being non-dogmatic, you know trusting in science, uh, as a way to analyze and assess, um, you know, their understanding of the natural world and public policymaking. But at the same time also we are you know, we are a kind and compassionate and inclusive group of people as well, and I think we believe that is foundational and important, very important, I think. Also, in reality, I have yet to meet a humanist who isn't either an atheist or an agnostic. I think some people will be sort of thinking about these issues and have sort of mixed views, so I'd put that under the badge of agnosticism. But I don't meet many people who are both humanists and devoutly religious. So in reality, in practice, I think that tends to be the tendency.

Speaker 1: 11:43

Yeah, I think you're right. It's more about in practice. These are the beliefs that people hold, rather than anything that is, as you say, prescribed perhaps, but I think we might have an issue in telling people that we expect them to be non-dogmatic. There might be a slight contradiction there. But yeah, is there anything that you would add, katia?

Speaker 2: 12:04

I think that was quite complete from Mark. I do think that there are, it's, more tendencies than criteria, so we tend to be more evidence based. I guess the only thing that I would add is I have, when I meet a humanist, when I meet a fellow humanist, I will have higher expectations vis-a-vis their rationality, vis-a-vis their compassion, right. So I don't know if that's a belief that I expect a humanist to have, but it is my, and some people might not think that that's fair, but I do have higher expectations and I think in a sense that's fair.

Speaker 2: 12:54

I believe that humanists are people who have stopped to think about certain things. They tend to be non-religious, agnostic or actually downright atheists, because they've had a thought, they've said oh, is religion really the thing that is going to help us be better people? And if they've come to the same answer as I have, I think we're better when we think for ourselves and when we accept dogma from a religion or even a political party. So this having higher expectations is linked for me to the fact that we are free thinkers. I think free thinkers in general can even just even explain themselves better. We are just as rational as anyone else, just as smart, very often just as informed. But we have asked certain questions and come to certain answers. So for instance, on God and religion, on science and its value to us. I guess that's the only thing I would add.

Speaker 1: 14:06

I think that's a really interesting point, important point as well In the conversations I had, that inspired us having this discussion today. That was one of the questions that came up. Actually, why is it different than just saying you're agnostic or being atheist, or is it the same as those things? And I think that thoughtfulness is the key difference there.

Speaker 1: 14:27

I think a lot of people might nominally be agnostic or maybe have come to the conclusion that they're atheist, but it's in the thinking about the role that religion plays, or thinking about the role of science and, in particular, the big ethical questions, that mean that somebody might say, well, actually, no, I positively identify with being a humanist, rather than just saying, you know, I don't know about these big questions. And I totally agree with your point in terms of holding members of the group to a higher standard as well, and I think it's also important to remember that if you are going to be, you know, openly, uh, you know presenting and identifying with a label, then try and be a good representative of that label as well and try and also hold yourself to a higher standard so that, um, you're reflecting positively for anybody who's who's finding out about, whether it be humanism or something else for the first time mark, did you have something to add?

Speaker 3: 15:24

this is something that came up quite recently, actually, when I was talking about humanism, explaining it to somebody I know very well, and they actually very much in tune with what you were both just saying, but at a slightly different angle, is that they had a concern that any group that sort of set it up, set itself up as of try to um, uh, champion a set of moral standards, explicit moral standards, which I think is is to some extent part of humanism, or certainly very heavily implied.

Speaker 3: 15:53

That that was in, in a sense, uh, for them raising a bit of a, a, a red flag, because they there was a concern about sort of people being pious and sanctimonious and that very often the sort of people we've seen this with, say religious groups, certain religious groups where people will hold certain moral principles in public but in private be practicing the opposite and the sort of hypocrisy that can come with that. So I think I notice a general tendency amongst humans to be quite wary of stepping down too hard in terms of moral injunctions and that we are quite cautious about that, and probably rightly so. But that's not to say that there aren't certain moral principles that we at least try to adhere to.

Speaker 1: 16:38

Definitely. I think I would agree with your friend there. I think any group defining themselves as more rational or more ethical is on the road towards righteousness, which I'm a big fan of Jonathan Haidt's Righteous Mind and I think you can see that anywhere. And I think if we were to define ourselves as more righteous, that becomes problematic quite quickly. That becomes problematic quite quickly If you look at the definition of what a humanist is in the Humanist International briefing.

Speaker 1: 17:12

There's four points there, but one word is repeated quite often, which is strive. It's that humanists strive to be rational and we strive to be ethical, and I think that's a really important distinction, rather than saying that we are. And to Katia's point, it means you can also hold people to those standards and sort of ask you know, if you do disagree with someone, ask are they striving to consider all of the evidence or aiming to be rational? Even if we have different ways of coming to the well, even if we come to different conclusions and perhaps have different ways of getting there, are we following those principles? So I think that's really important to bear in mind as well and to hold ourselves to those standards. And so I guess the final question on this point is you know, does this matter? Do we care if people who maybe share our values also want to identify with the humanist term? Katia, as someone who kind of came to this, as you say, via a different route, what do you think?

Speaker 2: 18:05

Humanism can be a label and I would say that because it is a label, it is going to be cultural in a big sense, in an important sense. So I would say no, I can say that I didn't identify as a humanist for most of my life, whilst holding broadly the same beliefs as I do now that I am a humanist. So you know, in my case it's easy to explain I didn't grow up in the UK, I grew up in Mexico, the US, and I spent a lot of time in France, and these are not places where humanism is that big, it's not as present in everyday life as it is in the UK. That doesn't mean that people in those countries don't have the same beliefs and wouldn't identify as humanists were they, for instance, living in the UK. I can share some conversations that I've just very recently had in France with some friends in France who would not call themselves humanists at all. For them, being an atheist is quite just a matter of fact. It's not something that has to be politicized or campaigned for in any way in France.

Speaker 2: 19:37

There is a little bit of an issue now in France with the laïcité, with the laws, but for everyday people, you know they have been most of them have been brought up atheist. They would talk about issues. They would be more political, I find, about certain issues. So, for instance, the words that are used. So in the UK, for instance, you hear a lot the cost of living crisis right In France. You would hear on both sides of the center. So I see most politicians in France being on the left or the right of a center and they would talk about things like social justice and why, you know, housing has to be better for schools, for teachers, for nurses, etc. Because of social justice. And this is said on the right of center. So the humanist issues of compassion are very widespread across countries.

Speaker 2: 20:52

That don't then say, well, if you're compassionate, you're a humanist. They would say, well, if you're compassionate, you're a socialist perhaps. Or they would say, if you are an atheist, well then you're in favor of laïcité. But even if you're religious, you can be in favor of secularism. In France, even religious people are in favor. Most religious people are in favor of secularism. They don't have to label themselves anything other than secularists, and that is a very Republican thing to be. And you can be on the right or on the left of the center. I just think that the label doesn't matter as much.

Speaker 1: 21:36

Mark, how about for you? Do you think it's good for more people to identify openly as being humanist?

Speaker 3: 21:44

Yes, I'm going to flip my answer around and address the political, the broader issues first, in response to the really interesting point that Katya made, that I hadn't really thought of. So I think that, in a social sense, in a societal sense, actually there is a value in people identifying as humanist in our setting because, unlike France, we're not a secular republic, we're a theocratic monarchy, frankly, and the church is extremely powerful here. You know, look at the number of religious faith schools. You know, we all know about bishops in the House of Lords. We're still, as a society, which is actually quite non-religious. We are formally I won't say dominated, but our society and politics are very influenced by religion. So, actually, if you want to see a more secular society, then it's not going to happen by accident, it's going to mean people actually taking some sort of action, being a humanist. Actually, you know, politics is a numbers game, isn't it? It's about whether it's people expressing their views, or the way they vote, or the amount of money they put forward. That's what determines what happens in the social sphere, in the political sphere. So if we want to see a more secular society, then being an open humanist and supporting humanist causes is one way to achieve that, and so I think in that sense, on a more personal level, I don't think it matters as much.

Speaker 3: 23:02

If people want to, you know the way they choose to live their lives, the label they want to give themselves. If they're you know, if they have good values and they are, you know they take an approach to understanding the natural world based on science and reason rather than superstition and dogma, then you know. That's why I don't really care what they call themselves. I think it does help personally to have, it can help to have a label.

Speaker 3: 23:33

If you're looking to sort of I don't know, almost give yourself a sense of boundaries, and if you're the type of person who likes to have something that you can really identify with psychologically, I find it is useful to have a bit of a label and also to have a community. Which helps me reinforce those ideas and values, and I think an example would actually be for me is that I think I've become more interested in science as a consequence of being involved with humanism. I've read more books about popular science because it's part of the culture of humanism, so in fact, there's been a real benefit in actually in terms of my understanding of the world and things that I should really have read about a long time ago. So, yeah, I think that it's a matter of personal choice, but I think there are certain benefits to being explicit about your humanist beliefs and values.

Speaker 2: 24:26

I do kind of struggle with whether we should be more political, whether humanism should be more political, because I think that, as Mark has just said, politics is a number of games and I feel there are many more humanists in a place like the UK that would be of value politically than are being used politically, and so many things have to change in the UK.

Speaker 2: 24:59

Right now, we have these campaigns from Humanism UK. I think we'll talk about this when we come to the topic of climate action. Some of the things that we could help change are really important matters. So, whilst I understand that we shouldn't go around evangelizing and that we were a social group and humanism isn't necessarily political, after spending a little bit of time in France, I've come back thinking, well, wait a minute, everything is political, like even saying, oh, I'm not going to be political, because if I go political, then these consequences. You often ask on the podcast what have you changed your mind on recently? And I think I'm going. I'm flip-flopping back and forth with we should be more political, we shouldn't be political. I think we need to at least talk about it and maybe use the advantage of having a voice and maybe use the advantage of having a voice, of having a group that is big here in the UK to make changes.

Speaker 1: 26:07

Yeah, I think representation matters in a couple of different ways. I think one, yes, the strength of your voice. If there are more people who identify with the group, then, yes, you are more likely to be listened to. Group then, yes, you, you, you are that you are more likely to be listened to. But I also think, um.

Speaker 1: 26:24

I think the way that I came to be comfortable identifying with the, the label, was through a lot of, like the humanist uk patrons who were people that I'd found through other means. You know often scientists or comedians or writers, and you realize with, with the numbers of people that you, that you like and you follow their work and you think they seem like a nice person and an interesting, thoughtful person, and then they mention it in an interview oh, I'm a humanist and they don't have to go into the details. But that that for me, was the way in which I felt comfortable with it. So I think the more people who are sort of openly identifying um from a diverse range of backgrounds as well, like a set of experiences, more likely others are going to feel comfortable being open about their beliefs as well. So I think these are all important topics, but I agree that we shouldn't demand it of people, but it is helpful, I think so hopefully we can encourage more through this podcast as we go forward.

Speaker 1: 27:21

Well, thank you very much, katia and Mark, for your insights there. We will be back to review after this week's interview with Laurie Marriott. Laurie Marriott is the coordinator with Humanist Climate Action, a volunteer led network of Humanist UK members and supporters committed to redefining lifestyles and campaigning for policies that promote low carbon. Supporters committed to redefining lifestyles and campaigning for policies that promote low-carbon, ethical and sustainable living in the light of the degeneration of the Earth's climate and biodiversity. Laurie Marriott, thank you very much for joining us on Humanism Now.

Speaker 4: 27:51

Hi James, thanks very much for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be here, always keen, obviously, to be speaking about kind of environmental stuff and humanist stuff as well.

Speaker 1: 28:00

Perfect. Well, with that in mind, can you share with us your personal journey to both to humanism and joining Humanist UK, and how that led into the particular focus on climate action?

Speaker 4: 28:12

Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's kind of a tale of two kind of streams of my interests coming together. So back when I was at university, which is probably about 2007, 2008, um, I saw an event advertised and it was actually, uh, andrew Copson was coming to speak and kind of tell people about humanism, what it was, and he's obviously chief exec of Humanist UK now and that was quite a while ago, so it just shows how long he's kind of been involved in, uh, in humanism. Um, yeah, I heard him speak. I was really inspired. It felt like coming home, if I can kind of, you know, use that that phrase, um, and it just, yeah, really made me realize this is for me. I'm a humanist. You know, these are all my values, this is kind of exactly what I believe. Um, you know all the people um that I speak to who are humanists you know we don't always necessarily 100 agree, but you know, we, I feel like we have the connection and kind of understand each other.

Speaker 4: 29:06

So at the same time, um, at university, I was also becoming interested and active in environmental campaigning, as quite a lot of people do. So there were those kind of two, two streams running alongside each other and they started to come together, um, when I actually, you know, after I'd left uni and kind of got a job, had a little bit of disposable income, so I actually joined what was then the British Humanist Association at a Green Party conference. So it was those two things kind of starting to come together. Meanwhile, I think, the British Humanist Association decided to join the Stop Climate Chaos Coalition I did to join the Stop Climate Chaos Coalition and then out of that decision grew a group called Humanists for a Better World who were kind of had a bit of a broader remit, as the name might suggest, but were obviously kind of, you know, getting involved in that side of things and in climate campaigning and so on.

Speaker 4: 29:56

And then out of that evolved Humanist Climate Action, which was actually launched during the pandemic. So when I saw that Humanist UK was kind of putting together this group and focusing more on climate action, I knew that I definitely wanted to be involved in that. So they kind of put the call out for the members and a coordinator and, yeah, I applied for that role. I think that was during the pandemic, so it must have been about three years ago or something like that. So, yeah, humanist Climate Action we are, there's about kind of nine or 10 of us, so we're all volunteers, which, you know, a lot of, a lot of people have day jobs, so we do kind of try our best, giving our own, our time and so on. But yeah, it just makes sense to me to kind of bring my humanism and, uh, my, my interest and passion for the climate and, um, those two things together are you also looking for for more volunteers?

Speaker 4: 30:52

uh, I think we're always looking for help. Certainly there are um a kind of set number of people that are allowed to be um on the committee. Um, we have actually just hired someone to focus on social media, which was we definitely needed a bit of help on. I'm not particularly kind of social media savvy myself in any way, so you know, we definitely needed a bit on that and we're hoping to kind of reach more people by, you know, posting more and kind of being more visible on social media in that way. We've also just hired someone to kind of focus on Northern Ireland and someone to focus on Wales as well. So again, we can kind of maybe reach and focus on those kind of regions a bit more. But yeah, we're always looking for supporters and I'm sure I can tell you later how people can get involved a bit more.

Speaker 1: 31:39

Absolutely yeah, and we'll definitely include all the links in the show notes for sure. Um, and thank you very much for your story and background to this point and and how it seemed like a natural fit in. In your opinion, do you think that climate action now should be a central feature for anyone who holds humanist values?

Speaker 4: 32:00

Yeah, I really really do Absolutely, kind of 100%. Yeah, it comes from what I've just said, really, that it's just natural in my mind for those two things kind of to go together. So let me tell you kind of, I think, the two key reasons why One is that for me, part or a massive part or a key tenet of humanism is empathy. So whether that's empathy for kind of those around us in our immediate social circles, whether it's going wider to the societies we live in, but also like to other countries all around the world, to kind of all humans, but you can also send that even further to animals, animals, to all life that kind of exists on the planet, and then also forward in time, so to future generations, both of humans and you know other animals that live on this planet. So if we think about kind of that empathy and then we think about how we're using so how humans specifically are using, uh, the planetary resource we we have at the rate we are, how we're kind of destroying biodiversity around the world and generally just behaving like our actions aren't really affecting our environment, those two things aren't compatible, that empathy and kind of those actions and behavior and empathy. For me it's quite a strong foundation for ethical behavior. For me it's quite a strong foundation for ethical behavior. So I think, when you are holding those values, if you want to act those out in your life and the way you live, also in how society is organized, you know, to make those two things compatible, I do feel that kind of respecting the planet all needs to be kind of part of the same thing, needs to be kind of part of the same thing.

Speaker 4: 33:43

Secondly, um, you know this might almost come across a bit spiritual, um in a way, but I feel of you know, a very deep connection to the natural world. I have, you know, since I was a child, um, and also an absolute kind of fascination with the way that science can explain, you know, the complex web of life around us. You know, obviously we all know about kind of darwin and all that kind of thing, and for me that appreciation, or is actually enhanced by the knowledge that you know all these, all these things, all these connections were formed over eons by evolution rather than by a creator. So that's actually, you know, a wondrous thing to me. So I see human beings as part of this complex system, but then I also see that we're not respecting the balance of that system, so we're behaving as if we're outside it, even though we are a part of it.

Speaker 4: 34:31

So we are treating the earth as if it's not kind of the only one, um, and without the belief that actually, you know, someone or something's going to drop in and save us which I don't obviously believe there are and that it's just this one life. I have just this one life. We have just this one planet. That really convinces me that we actually need to take responsibility for our actions and our activities as a species as a whole. But I mean, what do you think, james? Do you? Would you kind of agree with that? Have you got how do you see it? Kind of sitting with your humanist values?

Speaker 1: 35:02

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I mean. That definitely resonates with me completely. I think what I would add is to draw on the very last point you made there about responsibility. I think, as you mentioned, rather than accepting that we are of the natural world or even of the universe, rather than accepting that we are of the natural world or you know even of the universe, if you want to go, you know, even further back in time and we're, we're, we're, we're made of these natural causes and elements, is not to shirk our responsibility.

Speaker 1: 35:30

I think the fact that we have developed to be aware of where we came from and aware of our surroundings, but also develop the awareness of our impact on our environment, means that we have a huge responsibility, not just to the planet as it is but, I think, to future generations as well. I think we've been given this incredible opportunity, or have developed this incredible opportunity, I guess, as a species that is so aware and can achieve such amazing things. One of my driving factors is that we're able to flourish as much as possible in the future and maximize human potential, and core to that is preserving the only environment we know that can sustain us. So I do feel as though in. In a way we have a special place, um, because we have that awareness and those capabilities to to have a change, to have an impact on the environment. So, yes, it definitely speaks to me. I'm sure almost all of our members and listeners would be supportive of the cause, but I guess it comes down to action, and so I'm interested.

Speaker 1: 36:35

A couple of questions, really. I'd love to come on to the actions that you're taking now and what you've got planned in the future, but I'm also curious to know, know do you ever encounter objections, counterpoints from from fellow humanists who say this is not, this is not our priority or this is not in line with humanist values at the moment? Has that been conversations that you've had?

Speaker 4: 36:53

yes, so that there's a couple of angles there.

Speaker 4: 36:55

One is, um, obviously humanist uk kind of has um several campaigning priorities which we all support, things like legalising humanist marriage, legalising assisted dying.

Speaker 4: 37:08

On the face of it, those are obviously kind of a bit divorced, maybe, from environmental concerns. They're not necessarily kind of intertwined. They are kind of more about social, ethical issues. So humanist uk, um, you know, has has its own priorities as well and I think sometimes those are maybe, you know, in conflict with other religious groups that might have different opinions, um, whereas some of the environmental things may be are like more of an opportunity for interfaith cooperation as well. So I think sometimes people that are humanists maybe just have slightly different priorities and it's not necessarily that they wouldn't, you know, support us or make kind of greener choices in their everyday lives or anything like that. It's just maybe that they think Humanist UK, you know, has specific priorities that they should be focusing on, which, you know, absolutely fair enough. I think we need to try and bring everybody with us in general. So everything that we can do to kind of convince people to to support in any way, it is always going to be a positive thing as well.

Speaker 4: 38:14

Also, the other thing I was going to say I just remembered the other angle is that we get the question quite often, you know, do we support groups like extinction rebellion? Do we support, um, you know, kind of the just stop oil type approach of, you know, blocking roads or throwing paint on the you know paintings and in art galleries and things like that? Um, obviously, as a branch of a would you know, we have to be very firm. We'd never encourage anyone to break the law in any way. At the same time, we recognize that there are different ways to be an environmental activist, and I think that's something that I've been thinking about recently is that almost anything can be an act of activism if that makes sense. So even if you're painting a painting and putting it up in your window and that's inspiring someone that's walking past to think or something, that's still an act of activism. So really small things can actually kind of be that way.

Speaker 4: 39:16

I think, you know, there's probably quite an overlap in terms of membership of supporters of humanist climate action and groups like Extinction Rebellion, and we did join one of their protests last year. It must have been last year because it was last March, because they'd actually taken kind of changed their stance slightly. So it was a very family friendly protest and it was a very kind of nonviolent, just direct action kind of changed their stance slightly. So it was a very family-friendly protest and it was, you know, a very kind of non-violent, just direct action kind of march, completely legal, with just lots of different groups coming together. So there were lots of different faith groups there and you know all different environmental NGOs, organisations, community organisations.

Speaker 4: 39:58

It was almost just like a big party. To be honest, we were there on the Biodiversity Day, know well, not everyone, but lots of people were dressed up in animal costumes and masks and things like that. So it was almost just kind of a very, you know, festive atmosphere. So I think you know it is an ongoing discussion in society about how we protest, how we're allowed to protest, um, and the impact that different kinds of protest and activism can have, um. So I think that's a really interesting question. It is one that that comes up um again, just to repeat, we would obviously never encourage anyone to break the law, um, yeah, anything to do with kind of humanist climate action absolutely yeah, and I I really think this can't, this can't be a polarized political topic anymore that people want to make it right.

Speaker 1: 40:47

And, yes, we can. We can be aligned on on the overall message and outcomes of the campaigns, but we don't have to support everybody's, everybody's methods, and I think that's the thing. You don't have to support someone. 100, say you, say you know we can agree on and campaign in the same direction. Definitely yeah, and it's great to hear that this is also, in many, many occasions, an interfaith campaign as well. And again, this is not. This is something that we can all come together and align on. Talk us through some of the activities that you're involved in, and also in your experience of the activities that you're involved in, um, and and also in your experience, what have been the most impactful way that your humanist climate action or individuals or community groups like ours, um can align and and have a real world impact sure.

Speaker 4: 41:36

So, um, some of the the work that humanist climate action does is um kind government facing. I guess you'd say so. When the government's releasing consultations or select committee inquiries on anything that we feel we can contribute to, we're kind of making responses to those, making sure that the humanist voice is heard. Making sure that the humanist voice is heard. So, for example, the government are, I have to say, quite slowly banning plastic packaging. So they're almost consulting item by item. So, for example, there was a consultation on plastic cutlery, there was another one on kind of takeaway boxes. So it's a bit of a drawn out process. But you know there's different things to take into account there, like how quickly that should happen. What should the alternative be? Obviously, then, you need to make sure the alternative is actually still a more sustainable version than the plastic kind of one was. So it's different things like that that we've contributed to some kind of larger ones as well to do with biodiversity targets and things like that. So those are just kind of obviously ad hoc when they come up. We try to respond and make sure that the humanist voice is kind of being heard and supporting kind of the best possible actions in those areas. We're also obviously trying to encourage humanists themselves to live as sustainable lives as possible. I mean, I just want to preface this bit by saying we have been living in a cost of living crisis and making Sometimes making sustainable choices in what you buy or what you do, it can be more expensive. So I think we always need to keep that in mind when we're talking about this, because what people are able to do with their individual lifestyles is, you know, is very variable. So we always kind of need to make sure we're kind of saying that, rather than just expecting everyone you know to instantly buy an electric car or something like that. I think there are lots of small shifts that people can make. You know, it's the obvious stuff. I'm sure you've heard it all before. It's eating less meat, it's trying to buy kind of locally sourced food and goods, using public transport, swapping to cycling or walking for the short journeys where you can, cutting down on flying where you can.

Speaker 4: 43:56

The one thing I did want to talk about, which is actually one of the most impactful things that you can do it's not too difficult and it potentially won't actually cost you anything and that is looking at where your money is. So who do you bank with? What's their investment policy? You know where. Where is your money, where are your savings, what are they being invested in and, importantly, where is your pension? So hopefully you have one, where is it?

Speaker 4: 44:21

So there's some research to show that actually switching to a greener pension can have the same impact on your personal carbon footprint as stopping flying, and you can change your pension. You're almost at the click of a button. There are quite a few options nowadays, so there's everything from pensions that just kind of state that they don't invest in fossil fuels and then there's ones that are kind of actively supporting green investment and innovation and kind of green businesses around the world as well. So it does require a little bit of research and, obviously, just a little disclaimer.

Speaker 4: 44:54

It's important for everyone to do their own research and to make financial choices that are right for them, but it is something that can have quite an impact because, as well, kind of once you've made that decision, it's kind of just ticking away in the background. So it's not something you know, almost you don't. It's almost a one-off. You don't need to actively you know, do it or think about it. You know how many people kind of think about their pension on a day-to-day basis. It's just kind of something that you can do, and then you know that your money, um, you know, is actually, uh, being invested that in things that aren't detrimental to the planet. So, um, yeah, it's quite an interesting one that isn't talked about so much as well and I guess that's a good, a good way of almost consumer activism as well.

Speaker 1: 45:34

You know if you are choosing where you spend your money, and it's definitely the case that there's a lot of greenwashing out there, so thorough research is required in terms of how green a green fund actually is. That's how a lot of individuals can have an impact.

Speaker 4: 45:48

Um, exactly yeah, and have an impact on the larger corporate world as well. I think because exactly the more people that are making that choice eventually, the more kind of companies and businesses that will catch on and be like, oh, actually, we need to have this as an option. So then the more options there will be for consumers as well.

Speaker 1: 46:13

Yeah, because my thought as you were talking was you know, during the cost of living crisis is becoming more and more difficult, challenging rather than you know, actually this just being driven by either the regulators, the governments or the big corporations themselves. But I guess this is another way to put pressure on corporations to change their practices.

Speaker 4: 46:32

Yeah, money does speak.

Speaker 1: 46:35

Have you read Hannah Ritchie's book? Not, not the end of the world as well.

Speaker 1: 46:38

That was uh no, I'll write that one down that's good I can recommend to listeners as well for a you know, with lots of small tips and a lot of focus on a point you mentioned about particularly red meats um, whether if you, if you do eat meat, where is it sourced from? Um, and yeah, effectively cutting down on beef and lamb can have a huge environmental impact. So all of these things it's just useful to know. And again, there's a lot of contradictory information that I think is out there as well. We're living in an age of you know, where there's so much contradictory facts, alternative facts, disinformation, misinformation which is being circulated online. Unfortunately, something as scientifically proven as climate change is getting caught up in this storm of differences of opinion. How do you combat, both personally or through humanist climate action? How do you combat um misinformation, I guess, climate deniers?

Speaker 4: 47:40

a couple of years ago I almost would have said like, oh well, you know, almost um past the point of climate deniers, at least in this country, um, but I'm not sure if that's kind of been a bit of a resurgence um, recently. I think it is really tough because much of kind of misinformation and disinformation takes place on social media, which it's just, you know, it's too large of an arena to police or to you know, for anyone really to interact with it in that way. To you know, start twitter arguments or or however sorry, x arguments. However you want to say um about a piece of misinformation or or a claim, um, and then you've got, you know, the addition of ai writing articles. You can, you know, kind of just ask an ai bot to kind of write an article with a headline that's going to be a bit of clickbait or something and to kind of suck people in so they're clicking on things. So, um, you know, it's a bit of a wild west out there.

Speaker 4: 48:35

I'm not gonna lie on humanist climate action. What we do is just basically make sure that we are sticking to the science ourselves. So we regularly kind of review our terms of reference to make sure anything that we're promoting, all our kind of objectives, are completely aligned with the scientific consensus. And then, just in general and I think this holds true for anything you're reading or any issue, um, that you feel yourself forming an opinion about, you might say, is just to always encourage people to look beyond the headline, to look beyond the claim, to go back to the source of the information, whether that's a scientific study, whether that's you know a journalist that's that's picked up something from a political speech, whatever it might be.

Speaker 4: 49:22

Just always kind of go back to the source of the information and think about why is this person saying this? What's the validity of the claim? Um, and you know, just just try and be as rational as possible and assess the information before you actually form an opinion about it. Um, and I know that's that's quite difficult and it's quite a lot to ask for everyone you know to do that for everything that you see on the internet or, you know, while you're scrolling through social media. So I think, just really encouraging people to be skeptical, um, although maybe not to the point of kind of conspiracy, that's obviously the kind of.

Speaker 4: 49:59

The other end of extreme skepticism is then like, oh, none of this is true, so it can kind of go too far, but it is a really difficult arena and I think it's something that actually, as a society as a whole, we do need to be thinking about more and dealing with more.

Speaker 4: 50:16

So, for example, uh, the online safety bill went through parliament last year and that's really the first major piece of regulation that there's been, and it's the year you know, that was the year 2023 and social media has been around for much longer than that, so we really are kind of behind the times. And also, by the time you regulate, you know it's already changed. So it's a very difficult area, and I just think we really need to be encouraging people to be skeptical, to be rational, to look at the evidence, um, and making sure that that way of thinking is embedded in education as well, so that you know children are really just taught to focus on, on those kind of um, those ways of thinking and those ways of looking at information I mean, it's a constant struggle for all of us, as you mentioned.

Speaker 1: 51:04

You know, you can't you really can't dig into every single headline that you read and and fully go through that process, um. So yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, um. I guess we also need to encourage better journalism in that respect as well, a more of a science based approach throughout society, and I think I think that is is being encouraged as well. The next generation looking ahead towards the future what is Humanist? Climate Action's main goals and upcoming projects for the year.

Speaker 4: 51:35

So one of the main things we are working on at the moment, which is a really great opportunity for anyone that wants to get involved, is called the Great Big Green Week. So that's something that happens every year, and this year it just so happens last year as well it happens to coincide with the Humanist UK Convention, so that's quite handy for us again to kind of align those two things. So this year's theme for the Great Big Green Week is let's swap together for good. So the good thing about that theme is it can kind of be interpreted in lots of different ways. So you can take it quite literally. So, you know, instead of buying something new, you could be swapping something with your neighbour or someone in your community or family member. But you can take it more generally, and this is what we'll be doing at convention, um, and in general we'll be encouraging humanists to make a pledge to swap something in your life for a more environmentally friendly alternative. So yeah, there's loads of different ways that you could do this. It could be a bit more esoteric, kind of swapping knowledge or skills with someone you could be. You know, going back to the things we spoke about before, you could swap out a meal a week, where you usually eat meat, for a veggie alternative. You just you could organize a clothes swap with your friends. You could swap out one of your usual activities for something else, like a litter pick or a nature hike or something like that.

Speaker 4: 52:53

So the great big green week website has loads of resources and ideas taking place in June. So I really encourage people to go and look at that website as well. If you wanted to kind of set something up in your local community, you can kind of register your event on there and see what other people are up to. Lots of schools get involved, lots of other kind of community groups, so that should be good. At convention itself, we're going to have the Humanist Convention. So that should be good.

Speaker 4: 53:17

At convention itself, we're going to have the humanist convention. That is, we're going to have a stall there and encourage people to come along to be making their pledges kind of, maybe get their picture taken with their pledge and things like that. So that should be good. That's kind of our main focus coming up. And then a bit later this year, another thing that we're hoping to do and hopefully this is this podcast is the start of this as well is to engage more with local humanist groups. So we think there are lots of opportunities for local groups to be getting involved both with us but also with kind of your local areas, local projects, local environmental campaigning.

Speaker 1: 53:55

So the thing that we're going to be doing over the coming months is looking at how humanist climate action can actually kind of support um local groups in doing that that's great and I think I think that leads on nicely to, to wrap up, um, if our listeners are part of a local group or they as individuals would like to um get, what can they do and what's the best way to contact you?

Speaker 4: 54:20

Sure, yes. So one main thing to do is to sign up for our newsletter, which you can do via the Humanist UK website, and then you just kind of need to find the Humanist Climate Action section on the website. If you sign up for our newsletter it's once every two months we have all kinds of exciting things in it. So we've got interviews with humanists, some of which are patrons of Humanist UK. We've got actions that you can take, updates on campaigns. Sometimes you might have kind of a book review, and we try to encourage engagement as well.

Speaker 4: 54:51

So people that kind of respond to any of the articles we put responses in and get that kind of conversation going. You could also follow us on social media, so Instagram and x slash Twitter and just watch out for any kind of forthcoming campaigns and actions that we have coming up as well. As I mentioned, we're hoping to work with local groups more, so you might actually just get kind of an email from us popping into your local group inbox later in the year. Anyway, there's also an email address. So that's climateaction at humanistuk. And finally, if you are coming to the Humanist UK Convention in Cardiff, please do just drop by the stall, because we're very keen to chat to people really.

Speaker 1: 55:35

Fantastic. Well, we look forward to seeing you there and hope to hear more from humanist climate action um at many of our local groups very soon. So, laurie, thank you very much for your time. Before we go, our standard closing question what's something you've changed your mind on recently?

Speaker 4: 55:51

um. So I've got two things. One is more serious and related to this podcast, one less so. Um, I did recently change my pension, as I discussed during the podcast. So I did my research, made the decision and I did switch my pension over to a kind of a greener one, which invests in things that I approve of rather than disapprove of. So that's one thing, and the other one was, um, I don't know if you remember avril levine, the singer. Um, I've been listening to a podcast because there's a conspiracy theory about whether she was replaced, that she like died and was replaced at some point. Um, and I've kept changing my mind about whether I agree, but I think I've come down, um, on the side of I think avril levine is avril levine and that the evidence is on the side, that I think Avril Lavigne is Avril Lavigne and that the evidence is on the side that she has not been replaced. But I haven't finished the podcast yet, so I might change my mind again. You never know.

Speaker 1: 56:47

I thought that was going to be our first ever admission of someone believing in a conspiracy theory on the Humans and Hell podcast. We'll have to wait until the end of the series to find out. But, laurieie marriott, um, thank you for everything you're doing at humanist climate action, such an important cause. Very much looking forward to hearing more from you throughout the year and thank you for joining us on humanism now thanks so much, james welcome back to humanism now and thank you to laurie for that incredibly insightful interview.

Speaker 1: 57:17

um, she's really doing fantastic work with Humanist Climate Action and of course, we will include links to all of their campaigns if anybody listening would like to get involved. So we also welcome Laurie and with some fellow leaders in the movement for our Earth Day talk a couple of weeks ago. So we've had lots of learnings here at Central London Humanists on how we can be more involved in climate action. So I wonder, reflecting on the interview, mark, what was your main takeaway? Do you see climate action as a central issue for humanistic values?

Speaker 3: 57:50

I do actually, yes, I think there's a number of reasons why it sort of holds that position.

Speaker 3: 57:56

I think that, in the first instance, um, you know, philosophically, scientifically, it's completely aligned with our positions and stances.

Speaker 3: 58:04

It's it's a science-based uh view of um, of understanding the natural world and, as I've mentioned a few times, but it's also uh very much concerned about the well-being of of uh, of humanity and indeed all sentient beings in the world.

Speaker 3: 58:20

So if you, I think, as humanists, we care about um, about human flourishing and about about we want to protect uh the natural world, we have respect for that um, because we we have a certain awe and uh and delight in understanding and appreciating that you know the wonder, the wonders of nature, as well as some of the terrors, um and um, so understanding and appreciating the wonders of nature as well as some of the terrors, and so, yes, and the other thing is, obviously it is objectively a really pressing issue that we can't put off. We have to address it now. So, even if there were other sort of factors influencing our view, the fact that it's such a pressing crisis means that everybody has to be talking about it, and Humanism UK is very much talking about it, and hence the fact that they have this sort of subgroup which is devoted to that. So I think it's really important.

Speaker 2: 59:15

Yeah, for the reasons that Mark has just given, the fact that the science on it is now so strong, we need to, and this would also go back to why I've slightly changed my mind on how political we could be or we should be. I'm not sure. I'm only just starting to kind of not ban myself from thinking about that. Environmentalism is a pressing issue and whatever we can do, we should be doing as a humanist and even, you know, with people who aren't necessarily humanists. Everyone should be banding together and she does talk about that a little bit in the interview of how, from different you know, political parties, from different sides, even with religious people, you need to do all that you can to make this a front and center, because all of the wonderful things that we can to make this a front and center, because all of the wonderful things that we can celebrate about being empathetic and about, you know, I don't know social justice can't happen if we don't get this crisis under control.

Speaker 2: 1:00:32

My change there is that maybe it does need to be more political so that more things happen, because just doing it not actively hasn't been enough. We can say that it's a priority, but are we actively making that priority have consequences and you know, are we active enough? Are we going to regret having been so moderate and having been so reasonable in a future, in a near future action? So yeah, I think the interview again got me thinking about what can we do, about what can we do, and as a group, maybe as humanists, I'm very excited to to look at what campaigns she proposes and what, what we can participate in as humanists yeah, there's definitely much more to come this year from humanist climate action.

Speaker 1: 1:01:32

I know they're rolling out many more programs and campaigns, so it's been great to work with Laurie on that and I think it's right it came out in the interview and in the online discussion which we hosted is what is the right balance between, you know, pressuring individuals for bottom-up changes rather than you know, really pressuring governments for top-down regulatory changes, which you would think would have a wider impact sooner, and I think it's good as well.

Speaker 1: 1:02:03

One of the things we covered when we were speaking and also in the talk is that progress has been made. It's not all doom and gloom. There are practical solutions, there are pragmatic approaches to this and I think that's an important message as well that humanist climate action seem to be promoting um, but I agree that the your point, katia, that we can't just be too nice and and celebrate the small wins too much. We've got to, you know, keep the keep the uh, emphasis and focus to drive the change. I guess, just before we wrap up, was there anything you took away as practical takeaways for yourselves based on the interview? Cathy, if I come to you first, what stood out for you in terms of direct changes that any of us can be making.

Speaker 2: 1:02:53

Yeah, there were a couple of really interesting points that she made. The really hard one is I completely agree that we have to go away and look at the science before we take a position on something, and generally, this is what, for me, part of humanism is being as informed as possible on the evidence. That is, that backs up a certain position, and for me, it's very important to be kind of on the right side of science when I take a certain position and to be open to changing my mind when the science, when the evidence, actually shows that no, it wasn't A, it was actually B. It's a huge responsibility, however, because we don't have in our everyday life, we don't have the time to go research. I mean, if you try to Google some of the points about you know.

Speaker 2: 1:03:49

She mentions eating local or consuming things that are local. That you know. Yes, as a general principle, yes, but it's not that simple, because you can be growing tomatoes in the UK by using a huge amount of energy in greenhouse settings, or you can say you know what? Just eat what's in season, don't eat tomatoes before June. Eat what's in season, don't eat tomatoes before June. So it's complicated.

Speaker 2: 1:04:22

She also mentioned investing in green funds, which I have personally looked into and have not found an easy answer to. There's a lot of greenwashing which she admits she talks about. There's a lot of greenwashing which she admits she talks about no-transcript, and I think that would be the point for me of humanists having a climate action wing they can go away and look at certain things and come back and present the data to the rest of us, so that we have a little bit of an advantage and not having to do all of the research all on our own all the time. And that doesn't mean that you're not then going to be responsible individually for the decision you make, but a help, I guess. So, yeah, I find it very exciting that she's taking this on, but a help, I guess.

Speaker 1: 1:05:39

So, yeah, I find it very exciting that she's taking this on Links back to a conversation we had a couple of podcasts ago actually, about science, education and understanding, and this is an incredibly complex issue. As you say, the data is there. It's not necessarily clear, but of course we'll accept that climate change is real and man-made. But actually, how best combat it? There are, you know, lots of contradiction information. So it really does help to have a group of specialists who are looking at this that we can, we can rely on and we know we're taking, you know, a humanistic approach to solutions. Mark, how about for you? Was there anything that stood out as um key takeaway from laurie's talk?

Speaker 3: 1:06:14

yeah, so, yeah, really interesting points that uh the catcher raises and I think, uh, this, this whole debate about the sort of the balance between individual action, uh, and collective governmental action, and very often we hear that actually, you know, in reality its governance is top down, which is going to be the most important thing in terms of really making those changes, and even if it comes to actually informing our decisions, that we need experts, much maligned, a group of people to uh to tell us, you know, what is the best, best way to act, even individually. So so the two things are interconnected. I mean, I personally find that I've, um, I think, probably sitting around about the time I became more more explicit about being a a humanist or, you know, really embracing human values. About the same, I became more more explicit about being a a humanist or, you know, really embracing humanism. It was about the same time I sort of also became much more conscious about things like recycling, and I think I've been influenced by certain things.

Speaker 3: 1:07:08

We had a very interesting talk about sentientism with Jamie Woodhouse and we about several talks and interventions about that, and that really made me think also about becoming less meat. I mean, I'm not, I'm one of those uh terrible flexitarians. I haven't gone fully vegan, but I do predominantly a vegan diet, and that is partly to do with the environment as well, as you know, concern for uh, for a sentient being. So, yeah, I think I think there's lots of things, uh, that one can do uh individually, but I think, yes, I take Katja's point about acting more collectively.

Speaker 3: 1:07:41

I did like what she's talked about in terms of a number of things. One thing that really stood out for me was around this humanist climate action and actually reaching out to local humanist groups such as ourselves and others to try to coordinate and encourage activism there, and that also happens to just coincide with our own group getting more organized in that respect. As we know, we're going to be launching our own sort of more campaigns and volunteering wing. We've got some exciting developments happening there, some exciting developments happening there, so it's very good timing and the person who's going to be leading for us on that new strand of activity is somebody who's very committed to environmental action. So, yeah, there's a nice synergy there.

Speaker 1: 1:08:28

We've seen a general consensus that we should be doing more activism and campaigns within our group and within other local groups. So it's great that very well timed as well that the lorry is trying to roll this out nationally. I think they're looking to do similar talks across across the UK with other local groups. So if anybody again would like to be put in touch with humanist climate action, please do let us know. We can certainly connect you, but we will include all of the links in the show notes and with that I think we've come to the end of our agenda for this week. So, katia and Mark, thank you both very much for your time. Just before we go, is there anything you would like to mention that you're you're currently working on, or we can flag to our listeners?

Speaker 2: 1:09:07

Katia, I'll come to you first well, it's not something from Central London Humanists, it's Humanists UK. A really easy event because you can join online. It's in conversation with Susie Allegra being human in the age of AI. I've read one of her books not the one that she's going to be talking about, I think this time around, it's the previous one which is, I think, Freedom to Think, A really great, a really great book that maybe I'll suggest we read in our book group. Let's join that up and when we meet socially we can discuss it. Maybe we can have a podcast session on freedom to think. I'm going to put it out there, James, if you want to take that up as a topic.

Speaker 1: 1:10:01

Absolutely, I'm looking forward to that this month Happy to and for video listeners, I'm showing here Susie's new book, which is Human Rights Robot Wrongs being Human in the Age of AI. She's a fantastic writer and incredibly well-informed on these topics. So, yes, I'd certainly recommend both books and to join the In Conversation event which is 15th of May. Online discussion with Andrew Copson and Susie Allegra will certainly be there and Mark thanks again for joining us and anything you'd like to flag, either from CLH or otherwise.

Speaker 3: 1:10:33

Yeah, I think it's fascinating to see the curtain lifted on the planning process for future podcasts happening live and on air.

Speaker 1: 1:10:40

It's very transparent. I think Katya's hacked the system. If you just mention it and it gets published, then you have to commit to it.

Speaker 3: 1:10:48

So a couple of things. One is that we have an upcoming discussion in our online discussion group about housing and the housing crisis, uh, which is going to be led by, uh, the wonderful audrey simmons. So that's going to be a really interesting discussion and, uh, um, I didn't realize this before, but there was actually a humanist housing association at one point, um, so it's something initially an issue that humanists have been really interested in for a long time. It's very, very pertinent now. The other thing is, I did mention that I attended this thing called the One Life course a few years ago during lockdown, and that's how I got involved, re-involved with this group, and it also gave me really interesting insights into what humanism is, and so that's really our introduction to humanism course.

Speaker 3: 1:11:34

It's called the One Life course. It's a what is humanism course call? It's called the one life course, but it's a, it's a, it's a what is humanism? Um, uh, course, really, and it's a six-parter um, one and a half hours each, and it's going to be run over a period of six weeks in september, october, I think. We're planning to start on september the 23rd. So I just yeah, we haven't yet publicized it, but so this is a sort of a pre-glimpse of what's coming up, so that's a really interesting thing to attend and it's online, so it's quite straightforward to join and I certainly found it really interesting and useful.

Speaker 1: 1:12:08

Yeah, we'll include a link. If anybody would like more information once that is announced, we can Google it to our mailing list. We'll announce that. So thank you, katia and Mark, for joining us this week. Just a reminder that you can follow us at on all social media, at Humanism Now pod, and if you would like to help support the podcast, we are now live on Patreon. Any support will be much appreciated. Or you can simply like, rate, review the podcast or share it with anyone else you think might be interested. We're always open to hear from you for new questions, topics or guest ideas, so please do contact us. All the links will be in the show notes, but thank you for joining us this week on Humanism Now.