Kendra Cunov on relational resets, expanding your energetic range, and feeling more human

In today's episode, I had such a wonderful conversation with Kendra! Kendra is founder of The Collective and The Fierce Grace Incubator. She has been studying, facilitating, and (most importantly) practicing Authentic Relating, Embodiment Practices & Deep Intimacy Work for over twenty years. Kendra has worked with thousands of men, women & couples in the areas of embodiment, intimacy, communication & full self-expression. She co-founded Authentic World, as well as The Embodied Relationship & Intimacy Training Salon, and pioneered some of the most cutting edge relation work on the planet. She works with organizations & leaders, as well as men, women & couples, who know that presence, truth, connection & integrity are our truest access points to success - in business & in love.

She is launching an upcoming offering called Embodied Wholeness. The first class is Feb 7 and the series will be ongoing. People can drop in or sign up for a series of 4 at a time - These classes are for all genders, ages, identities and physical abilities.

In today's episode, we start our conversation chatting through relational resets and the no man diet. We go into some practical examples of this in everyday relating and then switch over to feelings of safety and moving through your healing processes slowly through the concept of titration. Afterward, we flow with the topic of energetic range and what it's like to feel into the wholeness of our experiences. We close by talking through and getting curious about what might it be like if we actually allowed ourselves to be and feel fulfilled?

Connect with Kendra on IG
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Transcript

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Good morning, Kendra. Welcome to the podcast. Good morning. Thank you.

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Adriana Douglas: Yes, I'm so glad to have you here. I've been following your work, for

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Adriana Douglas: I feel like at least a year, a little bit over a year now, and I've been so inspired, by the way, that you approach relationships and the way that you approach

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Adriana Douglas: sharing your story in general, I've found it to be really

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Adriana Douglas: full of integrity and honesty, and to the point that it

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Adriana Douglas: has made me feel like I understand better just how to human. So thank you. Thank you. And I'd love to start out

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Adriana Douglas: chatting with you really about how I found your work, which was. if through relational resets.

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Adriana Douglas: Umhm, and what what that might mean to an audience member listening whether they're in a relationship or not at this time what it might, what it might look like for them to

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Adriana Douglas: take a step back

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Adriana Douglas: and and

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Adriana Douglas: assess relationships in their life.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Yeah, so

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know, the program I have is a No man diet. I also have a like a class I taught that's called the Relational Reset, which is just free and anyone can watch it. It's probably 90 min and so obviously it doesn't lead through the entire process. But it gives just some some guide posts along the way.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and both of those I mean. It's interesting. When you were talking, when you said relationships, I spent my mind sort of went like, oh, like any relationship.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): because sometimes we do need these pauses in friendship or but it's different. And and so both the relational reset, and then only on diet are geared more towards romantic relationship, romantic, sexual, intimate relationship.

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And

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know, the 2 things that I am asked about most often

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): are, what would this program be like for women who are in re? You know, relationships. They don't want to leave that. They're basically happy in and then what would this look like for men?

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And and so again, it's like, every year, I'm like, do I have time to create a new program? Am I gonna am. We gonna create the one for women or relationships. Am I gonna create the one for mine like, anyway, it hasn't happened yet last like 6 years. But those are the 2 places I get drawn most.

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because there is something so valuable about this kind of pause.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And so I am going to speak most

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right now, I would say people. But I would say, women right who are in again. It can be like, you know, you're dissatisfied. You're sort of chronically dating.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you either, you know, actually dissatisfied in your relationship, or sort of dissatisfied with chronically dating, never seeming to meet the right kind of person. You know, on and off a lot of serial monogamy, I mean a lot of the women who come into the No Man diet actually, what they realize is they haven't been single in like 20 years, you know, or since they were 15, or you know whatever that whatever that is, so it can be. And then sometimes there's women who've been, you know, single for a long time. Sometimes women will feel like they've been single for a long time and then realize they've never really been single. But it's that they haven't really had that kind of intimacy they wanna have.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And what I find about that kind of container is. It's like.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): it's not. Obviously, it's not that dating sex relationship men, you know, whatever you want to call it, that that like we. that there's anything bad or wrong about that, or that we, you know, want to stop that for the rest of our lives. But sometimes.

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when we're in places where there's like compulsive or habitual behavior, or

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): relational dynamics that have just become so entrenched either within ourselves or or between 2 or more people

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stepping outside of the system completely and and pausing.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): can help us see what's actually happening and actually reset habitual patterns like so often we're like, Well, can't I just change it like while I like like, can't I, you know, change whatever this this habit is, I have with eating while I'm eating, you know ice cream and better like, what can I do at the same time? And it's not that we can't right. Obviously, sometimes we are still in relationships. We wanna stay in, and there's work to be done there. But sometimes it's also like, you know what I'm gonna step outside this

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): for a specific period of time. so that I can get a little bit more perspective about what's actually happening inside myself.

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Adriana Douglas: I love that you mentioned the the reset of the patterns and the pause, because that's where

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Adriana Douglas: the transformation can happen. That's where you're able to finally

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Adriana Douglas: catch something and right create, create, create a new behavior. And I would say, from what you mentioned, I probably lean toward more serial monogamy where it was like, Oh, my gosh!

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Adriana Douglas: You know, who am I? Without

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Adriana Douglas: without a relationship without a framework, without

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Adriana Douglas: without that person to kind of lean on. And I found that one of the things that I learned was. where am I using a relationship as sort of like a way to not

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Adriana Douglas: maybe

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Adriana Douglas: step into the the things I wanted to do or the the the purpose or the creation, right, like creativity, creating this, podcast creating, creating, designing my life intentionally. I feel like relationships were a place where I sort of

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Adriana Douglas: hung out comfortably, and allowed that to kind of

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Adriana Douglas: be the thing or the reason that other things didn't happen. So that was one of the the big takeaways I had from from my relational

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Adriana Douglas: reset, and I would say that it helped tremendously to to understand

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Adriana Douglas: just how you show up

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Adriana Douglas: in any relationship as well, because once. You're not in partnership, and I've been learning this a lot from the Gene Keys. If you're familiar with the gene keys the Venus sequence like

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Adriana Douglas: it talks about if you're not in currently in partnership, that all of a sudden all the other relationships become the relationships that you're working on through this Venus sequence. And so I found it fascinating to see even how I relate to others when not

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Adriana Douglas: in a relationship. II don't know if you could speak to that. But it's been interesting. Just seen how how we relate in general, with

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): what I love about what you said, and I find so common is that often, you know this discovery of Oh, who am I not in relationship? And often there's a lot of fear.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know. If I mean, first of all, we just don't even address. We don't even look at that because it's like a it's like a hidden fear in the background. And then the possibility of a re reset comes up, and it's like, No, no, no, that would be too scary. And then there's this discovery, and so often I mean the most common

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): comment I get from women in the No man diet is like, Oh, this doesn't have anything to do with men at all, I'm like, I know. But if I told you that at the beginning you might not join but this th, that discovery of oh, this is what I wanna do, and what I love about it is, you know, I found this in my own life with my own relational reset, and then I see it so often.

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which is then, you know, post reset or no man, diet or cleanse

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): beginning to date or getting into relationship. We will actually see ourselves start to play out some of our old patterns

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): have, and we're so much more aware like we'll go like Oh, I mean, I remember so clearly seeing I was like, oh, this is that thing that I do.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Oh, no.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): actually, if that's the like, if I can't be in this dynamic without doing this, that's not worth it. So either, I'm gonna just I'm gonna actually change that which it often feels like risking the relationship.

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you know. But that's it's sort of worth it. At that point. When you see what's on the other side, you start to realize like that is worth it. There is no relationship, and it's not even like a big dramatic. It's just like, Oh.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): no, I'm going to show up this way that I'd found in myself during the reset. And if this person the right person to be with me like that. That is okay. Like, I am. So okay with that.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): So yeah.

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Adriana Douglas: maybe maybe with that. we could talk a little bit about

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Adriana Douglas: the resisting the ending, because I would say, too, it's like you you just mentioned. You kind of see the pattern you catch it like it's not worth it, Umhm, but I know in the at least for me, and I'm sure maybe others could really just like in the back of your mind like that. Is it worth it, you know, like, do I resist this

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Adriana Douglas: cycle? Or you really could come almost complete the pattern or complete the cycle in a way, after you've been aware of it. And you're like, I'm not going there again. Yeah, and how we try to find all the ways to not

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Adriana Douglas: let something end.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Well, I wanna speak to that in 2 ways. So one is that I would say so for me. You know what I saw with who is now my partner. and we had. We had been in partnership before, too, so it was like we were re-entering something, and I could see I was like, Oh, look! That's what we did before, and that's what we're doing now. And it wasn't like, oh, so I'm ending the relationship.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): What I, what I was really aware of was my own part in that pattern, and how easy it was to say he's doing this thing. But I was like, Oh, but I now refuse right. I have had time to see, and I can see clearly how I am participating, and I just

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): did me differently if if you will like. Literally, it wasn't even a conversation again. I mean, I think there's really important relational conversations to have about dynamics and a lot of times there's an internal piece that's like. And what if, even without a conversation and some sort of agreement that it's okay? What if I just go like, oh, this is how I'm gonna be

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): like a small example with my partner was

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the ways in which I would sort of withhold affection, because I thought it made him uncomfortable like I'm a I'm more effusive. He's a little bit more reserved, you know. I'm more like. And these, and then I had gotten into a pattern of like, oh, I guess we don't do that, because that's not how he wants it.

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And then I was like, oh, but this is how I'm gonna be in relationship. And if that doesn't work, that's totally cool.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): But I'm gonna you know, and it wasn't like, Hey, can we have a conversation about what's okay and what's not. And you know, I'm more effusive. And you're not. And let's negotiate this. I was just like, I'm gonna be the kind of emotionally affectionate, effusive person I am. And I trust I'm not gonna cross his boundaries and violate, you know. But I also trust that actually, if that doesn't work, he'll let me know, and then we can discover where we go. And it totally changed our dynamic

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and things that I just thought weren't going to be welcome, actually became welcome when I brought them without assuming they weren't okay.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): So that's slightly different than what you're talking about resisting the ending. So I just wanna give people both. I think that speaks to both, you know, if you have had some kind of reset, and then you see the pattern. Or even if you're in a long term relationship.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I'm trying to remember. I think I have a

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): a piece that I wrote, that's it's about shifting dynamics and long term relationships. and and that often it can take. And it really, I mean, I want to say, it's hugely brave and courageous right like it really take feels like a risk because it is changing a dynamic. But it doesn't necessarily mean the end.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): The courage to show up the way you want to show up, even if it's outside the habit that you have in your long-term relationship.

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Adriana Douglas: It

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feels so cool

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Adriana Douglas: to hear you share that, because it also is in a way teaching me, teaching us.

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Adriana Douglas: There's this, there's this dance of like, when to bring something up and when to not. And you're saying you're you're you're holding both, you're saying.

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Adriana Douglas: have the hard, have the conversations when the conversations are necessary or required, or would benefit, but also like sometimes

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Adriana Douglas: the change is just

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): within us, and shifting a little bit to

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Adriana Douglas: to change the experience versus having to have this conversation about the affection or about like that would just maybe not create the shift, like the shift, is in the embodiment.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): It totally is. And I think that's one of the. It's really one of the challenges, because it really is a both. And you know, I mean, of course, there are conversations to be had. So I always wanna make sure that that's clear. But I do think that kind of current

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): culture.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): at least in kind of the personal growth embodiment. You know, therapeutic realm we've gotten really caught in this dynamic of like talking things out. And that's it's a little bit like the map is not the territory right? Like the words are not the actual experience.

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and what I have discovered for myself and and a lot. I talked to women about this. I think that it probably is also true for men, but that a lot of times we're actually we're trying to create like a sense of safety, of saying, I wanna do this? Will you tell me it's okay.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): so that I feel safe before I do it

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): right? I wanna tell you I love you. I wanna run up and hug you when I see you. Will you tell me ahead of time that that's gonna be okay, so that it doesn't feel like a risk to do it rather than you know what it is a risk. And actually, some people aren't gonna want my affection. And and am I willing to risk that like. Partly it's out of love for myself, just II love that I am this way. Enough

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): that it's okay with me. If I run up to hug you, and someone doesn't want to be hugged.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And also I just like I love love enough that I'm gonna bring my love the way that I love

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and risk that some people don't want it.

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Adriana Douglas: and

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Adriana Douglas: that feeling that you mentioned of risk that's so important. I think we forget sometimes like

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Adriana Douglas: that a risk, a risk can feel scary. But it can also be really liberating. Yes. to the, to the human experience. Yeah, I mean. And again, I think it's a it's so complex and multi layered because I think it. I think there is a certain realm of safety. You know, we need like a certain amount of safety to grow. But then there can also be this level of like. No, I have to feel so safe. I have to know I'm never going to be rejected. You know, I have to make sure that everything's okay. No one's ever gonna say anything hurtful. And and I think we all individually need to find the places we feel safe enough

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): to do. The thing that actually feels like risk.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): because risk itself will never actually feel safe. This is baked into it. And so to to be discerning, you know, is this

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): the the person that I feel safe enough with it? Is this the relationship I feel safe enough. Do I feel safe enough inside myself?

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Right? Do I feel resourced enough? Do I have other external resources that make me feel safe enough to take a risk. and and yes, to be discerning around that, and then to go like alright.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know. Fuck it.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): it's just worth it's worth a risk.

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Adriana Douglas: I wonder how we could talk about

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Adriana Douglas: safety at many different layers or levels. But I wonder how

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Adriana Douglas: how, maybe, if there's some practical tips or embodiment practices of

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Adriana Douglas: cultivating that safety to kind of get to this space of like, I'm going to take the risk. I'm going to do it, anyway. Like, yeah, or the spaces that might feel nourishing to folks to actually replenish

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Adriana Douglas: whether it's in nature, whether it's in community to actually cultivate this safety.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her):  yeah, I mean for me, nature is a really big one, and II think it's tricky like not everybody has necessarily grown up or had that feel safe in their lives, or feels really connected to that. Ultimately, I do think that that is like our innate state is to co-regulate with nature. But we might need to titrate that, depending on what again has felt safe in our lives.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): So, finding that I do think, though, and again, it's, I think there is like tie trading is probably a really important piece here.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Because I do think that some of it does have to do with spending time with ourselves. and that we actually find that's part of how we find that we're safe within ourselves

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is kind of that sense.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I mean, you didn't say this outright.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): but there's almost a way that what that's what I heard you speaking to is like, oh, I stay in relationship

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): because there's a little bit it feels unsafe to be on my own like I don't quite know, and it's really the unknown. It's not even that we would have a direct thought. Being with me is scary. We just be like being with me is unknown. Therefore it might be scary right, and that can be intimate relationship that can be all kinds of things. But I think even today it's so often as like not going for a walk without listening to a, podcast.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): It's so true. And so what? Again, it's not that there's anything wrong with that. But this, but it creates an experience, like an like, an unconscious experience in our side, in ourselves.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): That be, it becomes that to be alone with ourselves is unknown, and therefore feels unsafe.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): So I would recommend to people like titrate, you know, go for like a like a short walk without your phone, without a podcast without a friend. You know just just what just like be with your own thoughts and the sounds around you. And again, that might be it. You know there might be human sounds around you, or you might find like a bike path within the city, right where there's a little bit of birds. It's a little bit quieter, it's

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and it's like, Oh, this, actually, I'm okay with just me. And we start to realize that we're safer than we thought we were.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her):  I mean again, it really depends on where people are at. But you're talking about, how do we create safety? I mean, I think it's important to recognize

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): that we probably do have habit responses that that sometimes make us feel unsafe when we are safe.

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But at the same time I do really encourage people like to trust their own body.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and so, if your body I mean this is one of the interesting things is that I will work with people who will say, You know, when this happens my breath gets tight, and I tighten my body, and I'd like to learn how to relax

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): in that circumstance, and my first response will often be well, let's listen like your body is actually asking you for something.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): So, for instance, you know, when we all know it's sort of better to breathe long and deep now, but that that holding of the breath is information. There's actually our body is saying like, Oh, I'm not sure. Maybe I need something. Maybe I need

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know some assurance rather than overriding that, and just being like no, no breath long and deep. And then you'll feel safer.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): It's like, Okay, well, can I?

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And this, this is a little, you know, it can happen in nature, I think a lot, but it can happen wherever you are, which is sometimes, you know, when we have an automatic, not safe response is that it can be helpful to to pause and look around right? Where am I? What can I actually see

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): what's actually happening around me

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and not? It's not to try to convince ourselves like I feel unsafe. But I'm gonna convince myself unsafe. But it's letting our senses come in contact with reality around us and go what is actually happening right now?

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And is it safe or unsafe?

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Adriana Douglas: I relate to that

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Adriana Douglas: so much, and especially 2 things, one, the comment you made about tight trading. I think that was I that was underrated for me completely like in the beginning

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Adriana Douglas: have of really a, you know, relational reset or healing journey.

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Adriana Douglas: I found myself wanting to achieve, achieve.

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Adriana Douglas: you know, grow, grow, and

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Adriana Douglas: and go too fast, and what happened was like I had to slow down like my body was like, we can't go that fast in this arena, and also to your point about being on your own. For me. It was this journey about like being able to expand my capacity and my range of like being able to feel so. The example you used about the walk was perfect, and that was something I found myself doing it like, Can I actually go for a walk, and just like Do nothing.

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Adriana Douglas: I don't have to be entertained. I can just be entertained by nature, and that was difficult, and it's like something that you think is so silly when you're like. Oh, my gosh! I could go for a walk with, you know, but in this day and age, with like

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Adriana Douglas:  technology and our attention being pulled in a million different directions.

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Adriana Douglas: the slowing down felt really really important to even be able to

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): be open to this discussion about safety if that makes sense like, yes, yes.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): yeah. I mean, I

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): probably your listeners, you know, understand Titration. But I wanted like the example give, and and I don't know if everyone did this in school. I think I was in fifth grade, and we would get a penny, and then we had like a cup of water, and then a water dropper, and the experiment was, if you fill up the dropper of water and you just put the whole thing on top of the penny. It it all goes right off.

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but if you take the water dropper completely full again, and one drop at a time you drop it on top of the penny or the coin.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): It, you know it builds that tension point over the water, and you can put the entire dropper of water on the penny one drop at a time

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): in a way that you could not do if you just put it all on at the same time, and so on, titrating, being understanding at what speed and amount. And you use this word earlier? Can I digest

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): what I am offering myself.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and even if it's all super foods and like nutrient death like actually, I still need one bite at a time, and I still need to chew it before I swallow it. And sometimes ISI you know I need to like, take a break from eating altogether, and that I think you know, when we're talking about personal growth that can look like.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): yeah, doing things that aren't growth.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): or there aren't always, you know, deep introspection, or like feel your feelings 24 7 all the time, and go to the deepest set, you know. It's like, Oh, no! Sometimes we just need to breathe, and we just need to look at the clouds. We just need to have a conversation about.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know, light things like, yeah, that

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Adriana Douglas: that has been a big lesson, as it has been like

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Adriana Douglas: you can live the teachings. I found myself constantly in the theory.

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Adriana Douglas: Yeah. And being a little bit again, we talk about, afraid to

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Adriana Douglas: put the theory into practice, and just

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Adriana Douglas: live without holding on to the, to the teachings and the learning. So much so

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I definitely am.

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Adriana Douglas: I definitely have appreciated

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Adriana Douglas: just the relational reset piece in general, because it

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Adriana Douglas: a lot of that is putting it into practice. It's kind of it's not just learning. It's actually real time in your real life, in your current reality, like

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Adriana Douglas:  experiencing versus, you know, virtual or or more programs to learn more. And so

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Adriana Douglas: that's been something that is definitely. you know, for anyone that

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Adriana Douglas: that hasn't experienced a reset or anybody that is

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Adriana Douglas: maybe to kind of close close the topic a little bit about relational resets. If anybody

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Adriana Douglas: is sort of on the fence about one, is there? I'm sure there are people that come to you wanting to do it, but either aren't ready or right, are scared of the uncertainty, or just not sure. Are there kind of any words of wisdom that you

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Adriana Douglas: pass along in terms of

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Adriana Douglas: when this would be the right thing for somebody, and how

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Adriana Douglas: and how they could make the decision

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): or the discernment.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her):  I mean, it's one of those tricky things, and this is what I say to people when they reach out is that I just say, you know I trust you so. I think it's always important

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): for people to feel like they. They get to make their own decision and their own time.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I will say that to the best of my knowledge, I mean, I've never had anybody come back and tell me that they have regretted

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): doing the no man, diet or doing really never like. Oh, man, I really shouldn't have done that.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): But I have had actually, there have been a many times where I've had somebody reach out to me one year

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): with interest. not sign up.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And then I only teach the program once a year, and so then the next year they reach out again, and they're like, I wish I had done it last year. What I what I do wanna say about it's a it's it's really about relational reset, or it's really about anything is that I always it's like.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): it's like, while that's true. While I've had people say, I wish I had done it last year, you know, cause here I am again a year later, wanting to do the same thing. What I think is important about our lives is that actually, we have the opportunity in every moment.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And so any moment. And again, it's not even about a relational reset. It's just like the moment we get to choose like like. Oh, I you know I didn't want to spend time with myself all last week, but like right now I can, and I don't need to spend a lot of time thinking about how I avoided myself all last week.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I can just do it right now. You know I didn't have that conversation with that person that I knew I really should have had a month ago. Okay, great. But you know what I can have it right now.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): It, you know, like, whatever it is we can. We can pick it up right now.

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Adriana Douglas: It's so true. and it speaks to

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Adriana Douglas: our ability to. as you're saying right now be in the present and

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Adriana Douglas: and repair. It almost sounds a little bit like repair, right? In a way you can repair or

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Adriana Douglas:  readjust, and you don't have to

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Adriana Douglas: go into

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Adriana Douglas: patterns of blame, or a guilt, or of shame for for not doing the thing in the exact moment that you thought it should happen or expected, or in the way that you thought something was supposed to go down. So I

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Adriana Douglas: I appreciate you appreciate you sharing that. And

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Adriana Douglas: and I'm curious if we could go into. We talked a little about safety and capacity, so maybe we could talk about the our energetic range and and

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Adriana Douglas: and how we can sort of get attached to one way of being or another. And I'm curious if this could relate to the dance of masculine and feminine

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Adriana Douglas: at all. Or if we we table that for a second and and go into that a little later.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Well, I say, that's one of the realms, you know, if we're gonna talk about energetic range, I mean, that's just one of the

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): it's one of the polarities in the universe, if you will. And

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): So I think you know, there's just ways to touch on that in that realm in the broadest sense.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And this is actually I was talking to you about the class series in body fullness, like in a in a big way. That's the inspiration for that class series. It has to do with this idea that that

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I mean. And I'm not even specifically said, like, we're not necessarily here to be more masculine or more feminine. We're be. We're here to be more human.

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Adriana Douglas: which is a great discussion cause I think we've kind of skewed like. Oh, if I'm missing masculine, I need to go take feminine. Oh, like, it's become a little bit of a

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): discussion on kind of what I feel like, what you're lacking or what you're missing to go. Yeah.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): get the other side. And again, that can be like that can be an access point. Right? We go like, oh, my range is limited here. Well, let me expand right? That can be an access point. But to me, I think it's really important to always come back to like. But the purpose

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): is so that we become more fully human and

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And so I do think, you know, I mean whatever you believe about Karma, and what you just come into the world with, and then the process of your conception and your birth, and then family were raised in, and then the culture you grew up in, and then your first relationships, and like all the stuff and then the culture that we live in now and then, you know, I mean, who even knows right that there are a lot. There's all kinds of things coming externally that say, you should be like this, you shouldn't be like this.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And then there's just our own selves that have ideas about who we are and who we're not, and and and over time, you know, it is true that a lot of us find like, Oh, we have these very narrow range, and some of it we feel really obvious that just feels like, well, the culture says, I'm supposed to be da. We're often a little bit less

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): aware of what can be a little bit more subtle are the places where I go like. Well, you know I'm just not that kind of person.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And where that's like that's an kind of an internal limitation. and it can happen in all kinds of ways. I mean you even hear it. People will be like, well, I'm a really great coach, but I'm just not good at putting myself out there.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): You know. I'm just not the kind of person that can market themselves. And it's kinda like, Okay, I mean, that's fine. And that's a place of energetic range. The willingness again. I mean even what we talked about at the beginning, around risk right? The willingness, the risk to be seen and and and it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Right? It's not like, oh, if you're gonna be seen, you have to do it this particular way, you know. But oh, what is it? What is it to let go?

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Not only of things that we think might be unacceptable? Culturally, you know, my father told me my mother told me the city I live in. It's only okay to do death to death, or you know whatever, but also to start to relax around. I am this kind of person, or I'm not this kind of person.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know. For me, for instance, it's like, Well, I just. I'm like not the kind of person who wears red lipstick or so, you know, it'd be things like that. Why not? You know I don't know, so I think they can be. Some of them can be kind of larger things. And then, like you were saying that that the practice being the access point sometimes these things that seem so tiny

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): actually touch on things that are so much deeper

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): like. I gave myself a practice actually at 1 point to wear lipstick every day for 30 days, and it was so hard. Oh, my gosh! And it's like who cares, you know, and it doesn't even really matter and stuff when it like. Oh, it brought up stuff about who I? You know what I look like, and and am I feminine enough, and Will might, you know, I mean, it's just brought up. So that was like again, kind of on the surface. But actually it was like deep.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): It was like deep grief, and

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): through this seemingly, maybe, silly, practice of buying lipstick every day for 30. I have. I have another one for you. I've been really into clothes this year, but similar to your lipstick example, brought up so many things to get. Can I wear? That is that color? Okay, is that texture like there's been so many mental gymnastics that have been happening just about something as simple as getting dressed for the day. So I so relate to the

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Adriana Douglas: these almost like these unassuming practices that actually become

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Adriana Douglas: a lot more like medicine than maybe even like sometimes, you know, doing worksheets of talking and thinking about your origin story right? Like sometimes it's in the it's in the red lipstick that you find the answer, and not necessarily in like

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Adriana Douglas: more journaling, although journaling's fabulous just

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): right again, both. And but I do think that there is that point. And and again, sometimes we can understand some of me like I understand that this happened. And my mother said this. And then this happened, and this is why I never quite move through it rather than like, Oh, my God! I'm literally putting on the lipstick. And now I'm gonna walk out the door and like in the process of now walking down the street. I am

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): II am addressing this thing that I know, but I can't quite resolve unless I bring it. You know, I would say through my body, right, unless I actually have some action, movement, gesture, expression. Because this is

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): well, we maybe more than our bodies. Right? We're born into these bodies we're born like in. And we move through the world as these bodies.

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And so I think there is that you know just you. You sparked this with

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): range, right? Energetic range. and

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): what I do find I mean what I find not always so helpful about masculine feminine is that those are really large.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): con like energetic concepts. And so if I just you know, I mean, I have women all the time. Come and say, I want to be more feminine like, okay, what does that mean to you? Does that mean wearing lipstick? Does that mean wearing a dress? Does that mean softening the front of your body? Does that mean, you know, like, what does that mean? And then we can work out. How do we then want to practice range in these areas? But that's so broad and and so for me.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I mean, I would just say in general, where I really like to. I mean, some of it, of course, is just unique, right? When you're working with people individually, then there's that sense of like, oh, this is what is needed to expand range. But as we start to recognize.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): oh, this is where I think I'm limited. Externally, this is where I have internal ideas about who I am and who I'm not. But sometimes it's so great to just play. because we don't even always know

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): we don't know what we don't know.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): So one of the places that I like to do this is actually in the non human realm, because we have a lot more ideas about the human realm, but to take on like animal archetypes, or

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): or

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elemental archetypes, or things right like oh, I might be more of like a moon person, and like sun. Energy is hard or no, I'm you know I'm I'm much more comfortable with with like Bunny Rabbit, and

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know, cat of prey is kind of more challenging. And so, being in these rooms and being like, Oh, what is that? If I'm still me and I bring this energy through who I am and and how I am feeling like, how does my body move? And maybe I'm like a very sad cat of like large cat of prey.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): But I still need to hunt, you know. So how does that actually move for my body? And we start to find like, Oh, this is

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you. Maybe this feels better than I thought it would. I was afraid of that part of myself, but actually it feels really good, or maybe I find that it's really hard to move this part of my body. And oh, I didn't even know that this wasn't even on my radar of places. I thought I needed to expand my energetic range, but, like Whoa, my haunches are really not on board with this I can't feel my tail, or I, you know I don't know, and I think that sometimes we can get more playful when we step a little bit outside of the human realm

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Adriana Douglas: that's so

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Adriana Douglas: interesting. I actually have a

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Adriana Douglas: one of the I was recommended this book by a mentor, the animal spirit guides. And so, as you were saying that I was thinking about the book, because

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Adriana Douglas: literally, even if you and I'll link this in the show notes. But even if you

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Adriana Douglas: just picked one like dragon, you know. You'll start to read

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Adriana Douglas: what it means. And then, all of a sudden, you could like you were saying the practice of the playfulness of Oh, do I feel like I embody some of these qualities or not? But it yeah, it's oh, it. It removes that

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Adriana Douglas: to me. It's like pressure. I've been thinking about that concept a lot lately. It removes the pressure, and once when there's pressure, it feels like, then there's no range. There's no freedom of movement. You're like

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Adriana Douglas: stuck.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Yes.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I mean, I think that often it becomes very, very challenging. You know, you kind of like like the pressure from this side this way and the pressure from the side. And then you're like, you know, like I don't know why they don't feel good.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And you were talking about creativity before. And again, I think this is actually this play of like, where? Then we start to realize, oh, I have. I'm have access to all these different

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): possibilities. Right? If it's energetic range, it might be different. Words come out when I'm connected to different parts of energetic range. So we think like, well, what is, you know, embodying a bunny rabbit, or, like a eagle, have anything to do with my intimate relationship?

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Again, we might find that that accessing, that eagle energy, actually suddenly different words come through. And we realize we can say things differently.  or just different ways of moving through the world, or different ways of feeling safe.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And and then, when we feel a little safer, right like oh, when I feel safer, then suddenly I have access to more creativity, or I'm more, you know, more connected to like what I my desire, what I actually wanna do or so all these things sort of, or I would say they're just not as linear, you know, as we often want them to be. It'd be so this and then this, and then this. And then this and thing, you know.

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Adriana Douglas: Yeah, that's how my brain thought this process would go. And it's been surprise every turn and twist that didn't go that way. So I love what you're saying about

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Adriana Douglas: about

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Adriana Douglas: the possibilities, because that that is something that I've learned so much about as

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Adriana Douglas: as you allow yourself to play. And these different areas

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Adriana Douglas: whether it's relationships or whether it's in business or

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Adriana Douglas: or somewhere else.

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Adriana Douglas: things do transfer from one arena to the other. So if you are practicing, you know, an eagle embodiment or characteristics from a bunny, and your healing journey, or in your relationship like

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Adriana Douglas: those things, will carry through to other areas. And

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Adriana Douglas: when you, when you mention that. I think a lot about

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Adriana Douglas: just what

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Adriana Douglas: that. what that like, what the play and the creativity can do

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Adriana Douglas: for how it can open up

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Adriana Douglas: when you allow yourself to explore these unassuming places like the creativity.

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Adriana Douglas: the creativity

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Adriana Douglas: for me started to become more apparent when I realized I could choose differently, like I could choose

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Adriana Douglas: to embody equal. I could choose to do like the choosing, I think, created a lot more freedom and possibility like the the account, I would say more accountability if you will, accountability and responsibility

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Adriana Douglas: to exploring these areas and really realizing that I had. I had the safety, or I had the range. I had the ability

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Adriana Douglas: to do this, I think, really helped me to go on the creative journey. So I'm I'm curious.

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Adriana Douglas: I'm curious. Maybe we could go more into this idea of play or this idea of kind of taking on these. It sounds to me that's like more fun, embodiment practices. It's not so serious. And I think I've found myself to become super serious. Sometimes in the healing journey it's like has to be all serious and all hard, and and I'm sure that

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Adriana Douglas: there are ways to lighten it up. That's that's where I'm going.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Absolutely I think ultimately it's I think it's incredibly important to find to find some joy and some lightness and some beauty and some play.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her):  I wanna touch on something you said. That's a little bit. II think it. It opens the space for this separate from play. But you were talking about

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): both. What I heard was like accountability and responsibility and choice and

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and I don't know exactly what opened that for you, because I think that is that that is one of the points right where it's like. But how do we get to that?

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And I, one of the things that I do want

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): for people is is even to have like choice around choice. And it's not, it's not. It's not quite accurate, but it's close enough which is starting to recognize like. If again.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I think, and maybe this resonates with your experience or not, but that it's like things don't seem like a choice. And and then there is this opening where it's like, Oh, I could do something differently.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): but usually it just feels like, Well, I can't, because yes, I have to do this, or else.

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Adriana Douglas: yeah, I can't do this because

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and and so again, like, if we're just looking at like, what is the access point? Sometimes I think, just starting to notice what those sentences are is helpful. It opens up like, well, I can't do that because this person will be mad.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Oh, okay. And then that's just a little bit more specific.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Then just the looming. I can't do that because something very bad that is definitely gonna happen and ruin my life, and if we go I can't say this, because they'll be mad at me.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and I'll lose my job.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Yes, there's one wrong we can start to go. Is that true? We can. We can actually question a little bit. And then, even if we go like well, I don't know that for sure, but it's too scary of a possibility. We start to be able to go. It actually does come.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And I wanna put this in the wrong, positive responsibility, like, it's actually okay. It is totally okay to say I'm not willing to say that right now. because I it's too much of a risk for me to imagine that I could lose my job

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): when I'm supporting 2 children like that is an acceptable choice. And I think again, sometimes people go like well, if I'm only afraid of them being mad, and I don't know if they will, and like I should be able to risk everything.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and it becomes an all or nothing, rather than but O, or we just won't even tell ourselves the truth that the reason I won't say it is because I'm afraid they'll get mad, and I might lose my job. So if we can just like name those pieces, and then and then be willing to say, That's I can choose either way.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and then there are some things where we go like. Oh, I you know, I'm afraid this thing will. I'm trying to think of a different example. But there's, you know, there's other things where it's like

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): right. Oh, I don't, you know I well, I can't run up and hug my boyfriend, because he might.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know, reject me, or it might seem like it. And then I'll be like.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I'm just gonna try it like I actually I can choose, and then I can choose how to respond to that, so there might be a moment where I'm like. I am willing to risk that

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Kendra Cunov (she/her):  or I'm willing to. You know. I'm willing to wear red. I can't wear real red lipstick because people are gonna judge me as a slut. you know, and then I'd be like, okay, first of all, is that true? Like? I don't know. And they might.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And am I willing, like like, okay? And am I willing to that. There might be some people who do that, and other people who want and like. But when we tell the truth about what comes after those.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know I can't, or else or I have to, because then we I think that's part of what opens up the like the breath almost of

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): oh, is that something I'm willing to risk? Or do I, you know? Do I really know that? Or is that just something I've thought for so long? It seems true.

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Adriana Douglas: When I, when I hear you say that about the the original example about the job.

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Adriana Douglas: Yeah, the thing that I was thinking of for a moment was just that idea of kind of worst case scenario catastrophizing like. Instead of going to this positive responsibility. As you're saying, there's like this default of like

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Adriana Douglas: worst case scenario, right? Like all the things that could go wrong. And we don't necessarily

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Adriana Douglas: think about what could go

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Adriana Douglas: right. And also, like you're saying.

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Adriana Douglas: I definitely, I definitely fill in my experience. It it

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Adriana Douglas: it took a while and a lot of a lot of baby shifts before I, even in some air arenas saw, saw, saw, saw, possibility like possibility wasn't available to me in the beginning. I was too

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Adriana Douglas: risk shame. You know what I'm trying to do. I don't know if that's what I'm trying to do. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do that

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Adriana Douglas: as like a shame to shape to. It was like shame based. I would see it, and I'd be like, Oh, my God! I'm so ashamed that I am not even in possibility like how could I not be in this state that everybody says is available? So I think there's even a discussion open of like

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): the steps to getting into the re positive responsibility. Yeah. So again, I think sometimes it is just that, like the the telling the truth about what's so.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her):  And then II mean, I think there's like multiple

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): things one is is just

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): again more as like a thought experiment and change is to go, oh, so like what is the worst that could happen, and what is the best that could happen? And I mean, I do think, like again, on the end of the Internet, there tends to be like a real polarization. And so there's the people going like

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): best case scenario. And the truth is, we don't know at all what's gonna happen like we don't know. The worst is gonna happen. But we it's not to. Then suddenly convince ourselves that the best will happen either.

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Adriana Douglas: is probably something we haven't even thought of is what's actually so. I think some of it also is just recognizing like, Oh, this is like the worst I can imagine. This is the best I can imagine. These are some other possibilities I can imagine. And

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and this I mean in some way this comes back to that, that risk which is like, and I don't know. And are they kind of titrating again, like my capacity to be in the unknown?

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Here's what I can do. And here's what I don't have control over, which is frankly a lot. And I mean, I almost feel emotional about it, because I just think like that's so much this

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): human realm is like how tender it is to live in a world where the truth is like we, we don't control a lot. And we wanna control a lot.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and that. And it's kinda like we've been sold that that's where safety is is being control rather than.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And this is where I do think this links back to energetic range.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): which is, I would say, that our, you know, and by safety I don't mean nothing bad will ever happen. Things always go our way. But I would say our true safety

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): comes from our ability to respond in the moment.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): because if something happens that I wasn't expecting like, do I do? I have that kind of fluidity

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to respond in a moment.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Do I have what I need in the moment to like respond. Maybe this is what's called for, maybe this or that, and the more that I can develop both what we talked about, which is like, Oh, I'm actually comfortable with myself.

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and the more I can also develop that like, I have ability to respond to many different circumstances, the more that I walk through the world. And I'm like, actually, I'm okay.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): because I'm going to be okay, like, if something happens, I didn't expect like, I'll find a way to respond.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): oh, which is what I really wanted to say about worst case scenario, which is at the best experience I ever had around. This was

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): was when I was very first gonna launch this program I lead called Fierce Grace, and I was just terrified like I was so excited about the program. But I wasn't talking about it all. I was like withholding, withholding because I was like Oh, God! As soon as they say it and like. And this woman I was in this program

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and one of the other women in the program. We got paired up. And and she basically was like, Well, what's the worst thing that could happen?

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And I realized I never even it was like again. It was like that amorphous looming in the back like bad things she really asked the question I had to answer. I was like, Well, what is the worst that could happen? And the first thought was like, Well, no one would sign up, and I was like, Well, that's not that bad like what's happening right now, because I'm not talking, and I'm living that so.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And then I was. And then I thought, Oh, what's the worst that could happen is like.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I mean, maybe I went through a couple of steps, but I hit this point where I thought, Oh, it's that I would run the program, and people would think it was bad somehow it was bad, and somehow just. And I was like, Oh.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and then I realized that wasn't even the worst. The worst was that they'd be like it was okay.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I was like, Oh, God! You found it! And then what I realized. And this comes to the responsiveness as I was like, oh.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I would deal with that

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): like it's actually not possible that I could lead an entire 6 month program and not know until the very end that people thought Meh is alright, and then I wouldn't find some way to be responsive to like making it right.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And then I was like, Oh, okay, I'm just afraid, you know, like, like, yeah, I'm still afraid to have conversations, and I'm so, you know, like I'm just afraid I'm doing something new.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): But I trust myself to meet what I think is the worst case scenario.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): So sometimes it's not even II think. Yes, we can go. I'm holding worst case. And can I look also at best case like, what is it actually to think positive? And sometimes it's helpful to actually just get clear about like, what? What is this

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Boogeyman? Worst case that's in the closet that I've never even named.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Yeah, I love that. And and telling the truth about it, that's the thing it's like. We convince ourselves very interesting things to. To go through life and

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Adriana Douglas: telling the truth has been a really important.

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Adriana Douglas: simple, simple, not easy even just what you're saying about giving a hug or affection, or the the boyfriend example you gave of somebody running up and like hugging them. It's like

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Adriana Douglas: telling the truth that like oh, what happens if they don't receive me well, like

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Adriana Douglas: in you, deal with it in the moment you don't like

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Adriana Douglas: cause you try to come up with all these like solutions for problems that don't exist yet. Really busy up here.

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Adriana Douglas: Yeah.

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Adriana Douglas: really, speaking to some of my experiences today. Yeah. So I love I love where, where this is, where this is gone, and maybe something that I would love to

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Adriana Douglas: chat about to to close out is. And you know, for the audience. We're recording this in in December, but this conversation is always relevant.  about

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Adriana Douglas: needing things now and the holidays and meeting

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Adriana Douglas: it. It doesn't even have to be gift giving, but needing

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Adriana Douglas: an answer now, needing a

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Adriana Douglas: something, and just

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Adriana Douglas: how to sort of be okay with not having more things.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): more things, more growth more.

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Adriana Douglas: I don't know, friends, more, more more, something just the being satisfied, like how to be satisfied.

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Adriana Douglas: and not need this instant

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Adriana Douglas: instant gratification, instant delivery, instant thing to to be okay, because sometimes maybe we gravitate toward. If I get the thing, then I'm okay. because we've talked about an uncertainty, a lot and safety this

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Adriana Douglas: this conversation. So maybe we can kind of wrap it up

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Adriana Douglas: in that area.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Yeah. I mean, I love all the different layers of that that you're bringing. In a way I do think this touches on something you mentioned before, where we didn't go, which is kind of about like seasons and cycles.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): we are in December. But even January was, you know, in in the northern hemisphere, anyways gonna be mostly cold and dark, you know my garden is like, not real pretty right now.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): so I think there's both. What I loved was you said like what? How to be fulfilled? Like actually to stay with fulfillment rather than needing more. And I think there's these, these things are almost like sisters. They're not quite the same. But there's the fulfillment. And then there's also just being with like, not feeling great.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): or it being fallow time

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and there is, I mean, I just think that is probably one of the deepest practices, right? Is like, I don't feel okay. And that's okay. I'm not super happy, and that so like, it doesn't mean that there's a problem.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): What if the what if this feeling low or or sad, or just like what if this doesn't mean anything's wrong?

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And again, it's very different than like

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): maybe I should, just, you know. Woe is me! Just give up, and this is as good as it gets, and I should settle or put up with things that are not okay. It's not really the same as more just going like.

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okay, I mean, it's a little like looking around the space right kind of looking at my life not to convince myself that I should feel better. But going like

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): actually, you know, my children are well.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): my partnership is good, my home is good. It's okay that my garden is dead. It's the right time. I have enough money, you know, like kind of go like, actual things are well, and I just feel low.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Okay.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): that's what. So you know. And can I not try to change this experience.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): which leads to what you said, which, again, is like, maybe if I bought this program it would change my experience, or maybe if I bought myself a gift, or maybe if I bought my partner a gift, or maybe, if you know, like, the kids have more things or that. And I think that that really is. I think even those of us who don't think of ourselves as super tapped into consumer culture like it's just we just are

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and so the pause that we talked about earlier, I think is really helpful. Just like, okay, so I like, I, kinda I wanna I want like a zing, and and can I maybe can I make my zing a little more subtle? Right? Can I make my zing like reading a book, or can I make my saying browsing at the local bookshore store rather than like buying a shit turn on Amazon, or can I make it, you know, and and I think most people can relate. And again, this is a place of just honesty, not blame, shame, or judgment

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): we can relate to like purchasing something and being like, this is gonna be great! And then literally, not even caring when it arrives

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): like, not only did it not fill the void. It wasn't even that exciting. It was like an arrangement was like, Okay.

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Adriana Douglas: hmm, like, what next? You know, I did that this year with the library I got a library card, and the first time I went I went I went bananas. I don't know how many books I got, but it also, when you check out it tells you how much money you saved. It's like you saved this much money by not buying this. That's amazing for what I noticed after the first time I read a few about the books for sure.

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Adriana Douglas: What? When I kept going back I noticed I'd get all the books, and then I wouldn't read them like. I didn't even have time to read the amount of books that I rented. It was like, but it was in real time kinda noticing that would have been an Amazon purchase before, it would have been the like.

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Adriana Douglas: Okay, this book looks cool. Somebody recommended it. Ship. It's gonna get here tomorrow. And and so I'm so glad I

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Adriana Douglas: this is a little experiment as we talk about these these experiments that that we can do to kind of see like.

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Adriana Douglas: didn't it was so cool, and I love the library, and I love the gift that we can go and get books. And but I also was noticing where I was like, why was I getting 7 like, I don't need 7 book and then go read another book. But it's so. I mean again finding ways to this is is kind of beautiful, because again, it's almost like the titration we talked about. It's like finding ways to be engaged in that that can.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I mean.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know, maybe it is on the larger scale. Move us away from consumerism. But even on that subtle scale, to just like practice in a realm that that doesn't necessarily like get everything but but titrating right? So the library or things things in that I love that in that

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): in that realm. And then, being like, how many of these did I read? I remember last year around this time I was working with a client, and

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we were laughing about.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): You know how often someone will recommend a book, and you'll be and and like our our Goto response. Oh, put it on the list immediately. What it would be like to just say, like, that sounds amazing. I'm never gonna read it

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): like that's that should be the answer for me. At least, you know. And how often that's true. You know, it can be true TV shows. It can be so true like, there's a lot of things, and and that there's sort of this idea that we should have this endless list of things, that at some point we will get to you know the podcasts. Now, people are like, what should I watch next? It's like, I don't know, like, you're like, Go, outside.

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Adriana Douglas: stop, watching

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and to be willing. And if there's almost. I mean, it's weird, because even with a show it can be this embarrassment if somebody says, Oh, my God, this thing is so good! If you were just like that's amazing. I'm never gonna watch it like you wouldn't. I would just rarely say that to somebody be like and it I told, I trust your your recommendation. I'm sure it's really good.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Thank you for the recommendation. I'm not. I'm not gonna read that book.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I think they'd be taken aback. Probably. Well, some would be like, I love your honesty, and some people would probably be like, what? Yeah, well, and most of the time, I mean, sometimes people are genuinely recommending totally, but a lot of times they're just saying something that they did. And then we go like, I'll put it on the list rather than like, Wow, tell me more, you know, or that sounds really interesting, or what? How'd you read that? Or

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Kendra Cunov (she/her):  So II don't wanna lose that piece that you brought in around fulfillment because I actually important. It's like again, it feels like a sister topic, because it often tugs on something very similar, but in a different way.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): which is, you know, people often are. Are they want to work with like, how do I? How do I work with this longing that I have basically this void, this longing it's about can be about intimate relationship. You know, it can be all these different things.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And that often is sitting with like, Yeah, what if I what if I just feel this way? And it doesn't actually mean that I need anything that anything's wrong.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): but I find that, interestingly, people are afraid of feeling fulfilled. And again, I don't know like how

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): intrinsic this is to the human condition or how kind of current culture it is, I'm gonna say, for right now is irrelevant to the conversation, and just say we, I see it a lot, which is that people are actually afraid of feeling fulfilled, because then we are afraid we will never do anything ever again. Like if I if II mean, wanna with the No man diet. The way it comes up is I will have women literally say.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): I'm afraid that I'll be okay without a partner like, I'm afraid to do the program because I might actually feel okay without a partner. I'm like.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): can you hear yourself? We also then tend to think if I genuinely feel okay without a partner, that means I will not have a partner, or I can't have a partner, or I'll never relate to people like, I'll never want to have sex again, or something like other than what if I just genuinely feel? Okay?

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And I could also be interested in people. Yeah.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her):  What if I genuinely, if I if I not

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): bypass and lie about what I you know, maybe doesn't work for me in my life, but like, if I really sit in satisfaction around my life, this fear of like. But what if then I don't make more money? Or what if I never create a new program, or what if?

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): What if I'm just like a lazy lump on the couch? And I don't do anything because I'm fulfilled. I think that's the fear, you know, rather than find it like, what might we create

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from

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): it? Feels like it's like deep-seated fulfillment. It's almost like it's connected to belonging like what might we fulfill? What might we create, or how might we live our lives

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): if we were actually satisfied. and there was still life to be lived.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And so I would. I guess I would just say to anyone listening like to notice like again, it's not about lying, you know if you're like, but I'm not really satisfied with you know. Such and such don't lie to yourself, but but to notice the places, you know, and again, it can. Sometimes it can just be telling the truth to ourselves about moments

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): that are deeply

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): fulfilling like oh, right now.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know, I mean, I have these moments. Sometimes we're like, I'll look at one of my watch. My kids doing something, or like my partner will be out at the beach, and I'll just be like, oh, like this moment is actually, it's absolutely full.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And can I? Can I take some pause to actually breathe that in and just go like this right now.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): We're not going to stay here forever, but like this is as good as it gets. This really is.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and and it and I guess what I wanna say is, if people hearing this like, if you do have that moment and you feel that, and then you feel that little tug that goes like, I think that's I think that's common these days. I think it's kind of like a stress response.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): and that there's something that we've been trained that like

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): that, that it's that it would be scary to be fulfilled. You know, it's like the culture wants to pull on us and go like you're not gonna be a functioning member of society or

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Adriana Douglas: And remember. there was a

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Adriana Douglas: a talk that I sat through at some point in the last year or 2, and it was something similar. It was like, when you have a moment of just feeling like the joy or the happiness yet to stop and be like in this moment, like I am full. I am joyful, I'm happy. And I and it's it's so cool

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Adriana Douglas: to actually experience one of those moments and actually name it because I think naming it kind of to go for full circle with this conversation

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Adriana Douglas: can help create that safety can help create that

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Adriana Douglas: that moment of you know, inner stability and security. And inner

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Adriana Douglas: okay, ness and then as you mentioned that little voice that comes after to be able to be like, oh. wait like I caught you like the voice that kind of tries to stop the moment.

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Adriana Douglas:  is also important, because it just shows how how much self-awareness you've cultivated.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Yes, I mean, I do want to. And then I mean, it's probably a great place to, you know. To leave people is like

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): to just remember that every moment of self awareness is a moment to celebrate. So, even if what it is is noticing. Oh, look! I was taking myself out of my fulfillment rather than like, why did you do that? No, no, no! And just not be like Oh, look! Look! I noticed, and because I noticed I can actually bring my attention back to my satisfaction.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): And so and then I did just wanna say on a really practical level. And this is why, in every single program I run, I have some sort of reflection process

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): that has people reflect on the positive

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because we're less

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): trained to do that. So we're much more trained to see. You know what isn't the way I want it in this moment, or how much farther do I have to go? Or you know people will say like, Well, I only did that practice 3 times this week.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): you know, rather than that practice 3 times this week. So so I think that one of the ways we can start to train ourselves to notice those moments is, you know, again, whether it's daily or weekly.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): probably weekly is about as long as it should go, because then we'll just forget. So I do highly recommend. But even if it's just a simple thing of like. What am I proud of? What went? Well.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): what made me smile this past week? What is something that I handled really well. And and again, none of this is to ignore the things that we might not be happy about, but simply to to take some of that attention and put it on. What am I proud of?

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): What did I do, really? Well. you know what went better than I expected.

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Adriana Douglas: That's a really good place, to to close and and to invite, to invite the audience listening to whenever they are listening to this, to maybe

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Adriana Douglas: do that, practice the the day or week that that you listen to this? Well, it's fresh. Well, it's fresh in the mind cause, I agree. We definitely skew toward the

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Adriana Douglas: what went wrong. What was the problem? What was the this? And not like just giving yourself credit?

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Years, all credit is is

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Adriana Douglas: is huge, the validation is is huge, and you know, as you mentioned, not to bypass the yeah. And then I think it actually gives us a pathway cause if we go, this is what went well, like great this. It's actually rather than showing me where I don't want to go. It's actually showing me the pathway of where I want to go more often.

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Adriana Douglas: I love that. Thank you so much for your time and sharing your stories and and your wisdom, and II so appreciate it, and I know the audience will will appreciate the conversation as well.

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Kendra Cunov (she/her): Yeah, it was really a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks.