Ep. 8 - Building Soccer Success from Scratch: Insights and Inspirations with Ben Freakley

Ever wonder how successful soccer franchises are built from scratch? Tune into this episode of the Pitch to Pro podcast where we bring on our guest, Ben Freakley, an illustrious figure in the world of professional soccer. With a rich history as a former player, coach, and general manager in the United Soccer League, Ben weaves the enthralling tale of crafting the South Georgia Tormenta community from the ground up, proving that teamwork, community involvement, and fiery passion are the keys to creating a thriving club.

We venture down South to explore the exhilarating soccer scene in South Georgia and Northwest Arkansas, where teams like Atlanta United and Tampa Bay Rowdies are making seismic waves. Through Ben's insights, we peel away at the layers of the unique experiences of coaching and playing in these smaller markets. Beyond just tactics and strategies, our discussion pivots to Ben's background in sports psychology, and its instrumental role in the success of a team.

Lastly, we plunge into a critical yet often side-lined topic in sports - mental health. We emphasize its importance, the need for open conversations and supportive environments within teams, and the crucial role of individualized coaching and positivity in youth sports. So, whether you're a sports enthusiast, a player, or just keen on psychology, this episode is packed with vital insights and stirring stories. Let's kick off this exciting journey into the heart of professional soccer.

Transcript

Wes Harris: 0:04

Pitch to Pro is the official podcast of USL Arkansas. This will be our platform to tell our story about the club and the special place that we call home, northwest Arkansas. This is a journey we want to bring you along for the ride. We'll share what's going on behind the curtain, help educate the community at large about soccer, our league, and give updates on the progress of the club along the way. Together, we'll explore and unpack our journey to professional soccer, the magic that is NWA, our community, and talk all things soccer from on the pitch to behind the scenes. Telling the story of our club. Pitch to Pro podcast is proudly sponsored by PodcastVideoscom. Podcastvideoscom is Northwest Arkansas's premier podcast recording studio, equipped with industry-leading equipment. The recording studio and services save you time, money and hassle. They are dedicated to helping you create, record and publish high-quality podcasts for your audience. Be sure to check them out today at PodcastVideoscom.

Wes Harris: 1:07

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Pitch to Pro podcast. I'm your host, wes Harris, managing director for USL Arkansas. We are Northwest Arkansas's professional soccer club playing in the United Soccer League. Today, I have a really special guest here to talk with us, who has a ton of just great experience in and around soccer, the game as well as our league. Mr Ben Freakley. Thank you so much, sir, for jumping on here with us.

Wes Harris: 1:35

Ben was just a little. I'll let him introduce himself. But just as a bit of a background here, ben was a player, he's played the game, he's helped the club get up and running from the ground up in USL. He was a coach correct me if I'm wrong but also a sporting director at a little bit jumped in that space as well General manager, general manager. So even bigger. I stand, corrected, thank you, sir. And now does some incredible work in the sports psychology space, working with some various clubs across different leagues. So, ben, I kind of teach you up there. But what I want you to do is just introduce yourself just a little bit, your background, before we kind of jump into some of your incredible stories that I would love to get into today with the audience.

Ben Freakley: 2:20

You got it. Wes First off. Thanks for having me today. This is what you guys are doing. Incredible to be watching and in a town that I already love living in, this is just an incredible bonus to be adding this level of the game here. So my family and I are so excited.

Ben Freakley: 2:39

My background, as you said, I've been in sport and most of soccer. My whole life was college soccer player at Georgia Southern University and I know there are a couple of fellow Eagles that live here in Bentonville, arkansas as well. I've been to all my fellow Eagles. When it went right into college soccer coaching right away and along the way, probably 10 years in felt that the psychological part of the game was a big gap in my coaching toolkit. So around 2010 is when I went back to school, continued to coach, also added a master's and ultimately a doctoral degree in sport and performance psychology, and for the last almost 10 years now, my full-time job has been in sport and performance psychology.

Ben Freakley: 3:27

I worked a couple of years with special operations forces, specifically with the Army Rangers, doing performance psychology with them. I spent five years with the Toronto Blue Jays working in the minor and major league baseball and then more recently, I work for myself now and consult with one of your future opponents, the Tampa Bay Routies Great, great organization, incredible people, incredible players there, and also with Atlanta United. Those are two of my big clients that I have the opportunity to work with and, as you mentioned as well along the way, had an extremely memorable stop with Tormenta and literally watched a pile of dirt turn into some training fields, eventually a stadium, and watched a whole community rally around the game and had an opportunity to be wear a couple hats there as the general manager and first-ever head coach of Tormenta, and they've gone on to do some incredible things, winning a championship last year, and also have some amazing people that are working there, and it's neat, a lot of the people that I coached are now working at some level at the club there as well. That's super cool.

Ben Freakley: 4:47

I want to know a little bit about me.

Wes Harris: 4:48

Yeah, that's awesome, thank you, and you kind of teed me up there really nicely to kind of dovetail into kind of what I wanted to just jump in and talk with you a little bit about next, which is we're doing something that not many people get to do, which is start a professional sports franchise from scratch, from nothing and build it from the ground up with a community and there are very few people that are able to say that they have done that or been around to do that or see that in some way, and you're definitely one of those and in this league with a special community like the South Georgia Tormenta community and that club and that team, can you talk a little bit about your experience there and that story of kind of how you help that club kind of get up and run in?

Ben Freakley: 5:35

Well, I was really like. You know, it takes a team. It really takes a team. There are no small parts in something like this. There may be certain roles that are more community facing and some may be more behind the scenes, but it absolutely takes a team. I was extremely lucky with Tormenta that I had people like Darren Vantassel, who just rolled up his sleeves from the beginning and was all in on wanting to do this, and you also had people like we had a woman, heidi Jeffers, who was a local, I think, icon for me in the community and just knew how to Market and get the community involved.

Ben Freakley: 6:29

She didn't need she didn't know anything about soccer, sure, and she didn't need to you don't, you she just she, just she was an expert in how to get people to care about local projects, and that's what I see you guys doing as well. The first time I met with you, and even the location of where you choose to chose to have that first meeting together and Near where the stadium was gonna be Mm-hmm, I just left there thinking, oh, these guys are thinking about this from every level. And back then we were. We were thinking about how to involve the university. Mm-hmm, we had Georgia Southern University right there and we needed to be a great partner with them.

Ben Freakley: 7:09

And then you need to be, and then you needed to be thinking about Local youth clubs. I mean, yeah, what an opportunity for kids in smaller areas, smaller soccer markets, to watch high-level soccer and maybe be sitting in the stands and thinking to themselves I might be able to do that as well, that's, and you've got some vicarious experience taking place. I mean, I remember being at a Rowdy's game a couple years ago and my son wasn't even 10 at the time.

Ben Freakley: 7:41

Yeah saying dad, I want to play soccer next year and that's, that's those. Those things are gonna happen here in Bentonville. Yeah and in the Northwest Arkansas area because of what you guys are doing. Yeah we were trying to think about those same things. How is our project going to inspire the youth market? How's it gonna be a? How can we be a great partner to the university? How can local businesses Want to want to tie in to what we're doing? We wanted to be a model of of excellence.

Ben Freakley: 8:13

You know we wanted to put a product out on the field that really inspired people and and played a good brand of soccer as well, so I'm not telling you anything you don't know. There are a lot of layers that that we were thinking about.

Wes Harris: 8:26

Yeah, right then back then there's a ton. No, that's great and you actually said something that is kind of interesting and I want to come back to a lot of people and Maybe not, but it's just in conversations that I've had with folks is a lot of people think that a lot of these owners or Investors, you know they, they know a ton about running a soccer team and the reality is you know they and I'm not, I don't want this to be misconstrued in any way a lot of how people come into Owning or running or being a part of the project in a meaningful way, whatever that looks like, it doesn't necessarily mean that they have this grand experience of Building and running a soccer club. Not everybody has a Warren Smith experience or a Ben Freakley experience. They just care about the community and they are just active members and know how to rally people around a cause or an initiative and get people about an exciting project and and get people excited about it.

Wes Harris: 9:37

And so I think it's passion for a community in a place and an understanding of the power of sport and having everybody has a, has a, a story about the power of sport. Whatever that might be and whatever you know capacity. Everybody can appreciate that and I think that's kind of an interesting thing when you kind of step back and think about Not everybody's a soccer expert that has gone on and Founded or funded or whatever on a professional soccer level. They just care about their communities and they want to build something special with them, especially in the USL, where it's not. It's it's kind of a different model than then MLS or NBA or NFL. It's a different model. It's so much, you know, more community based and ingrained in that and very grassroots, and so I thought that that was really interesting that you brought that up and talked about that, and your success with the tormento was kind of foundational in that aspect.

Ben Freakley: 10:39

And so I think from my experience Darren owner, still owner, yeah and his wife Nita, they, they did all those things that you just said. They were phenomenal around bridge, building relationships, making Making a case for why it made sense. One of the things they were also and were elite with during my time there Is they also knew when to get out of the way.

Ben Freakley: 11:06

Yeah and so when they, when, when an organization brings in somebody like yourself or eventually brings in a sporting director or general manager or head coach Mm-hmm, you know the, these leaders and owners, they lean into their strengths. They may be excellent at finance, they may be excellent at strategy, but they're also really good at knowing how to empower people and let others lean into their strikes. And that was certainly my experience at Tormenta Darren and I knew the things that we needed to do together and we also needed. We also knew areas where I would flex into to my experiences and strengths and he would flex in to his, but we also just you can't do this without an elite level of collaboration.

Wes Harris: 11:52

Yeah, and I think you bring up a fantastic point and, as you know, I think Chris and I our co-founder has spent a long time in the corporate world and corporate America, and I think that that's very true of any good leader or good teammate, even where you have to recognize, when you are not the subject matter expert and what is your role then become? You become I'm a follower and support system. Now, how can I best support you and let you run and do the things that you are great at and this is why you're here is to do those things and be the expert in that area. And this is why you hire a general manager, and this is why you hire a head coach, and this is why you hire an operations person and all those different things. And so I think you bring up an excellent, excellent point. And then it's also and this is something we'll get into a little bit later is also that's very you can transfer that right onto the field and you have a team that understands each other's weaknesses, where you may need to cover for this player and where you need to just get out of the way and let them take that person on 1v1, because that's what they're great at and you just need to give them space right. And so I think that I love that comment and it has so many different applications into, yes, what we're doing on and off the pitch, but also just for people in general, as they kind of look to build their careers and continue to go.

Wes Harris: 13:25

Recognize when it's time to lead. If you're in that type of a role and then recognize when you're as that leader, it is your role to kind of take a step back and support and let your people run, and so there's a ton of examples where we can get into that. But that's such a great point. I love that. So, thank you. Talk a little bit about the. Tormento is a great example. You're there in South Georgia and you have a professional soccer team in USL. We're here in Northwest Arkansas, another Southern market. You've got Louisville, one of the top markets in the USL in the South. I think this is it's interesting and kind of a paradox of a story in a way, but a lot of successful professional soccer markets, especially in our league. You've got Atlanta United, one of the biggest fanpaces in all of Major League soccer and North America soccer.

Ben Freakley: 14:23

And you can talk about that.

Wes Harris: 14:26

You've got Tampa Bay Routies. The South, I think, gets this stigma or this reputation as being football country and American football country. Or basketball You've got some great basketball programs and soccer just isn't. It's not quite there. This is baseball country, basketball and football. But you've got this incredible list and number FC Dallas, all these pro clubs and programs that are doing so so well. Houston just made a big run in the MLS. Cup.

Wes Harris: 15:05

Talk a little bit about that from kind of your perspective and it's a really interesting story to me and I love to see it just as a soccer fan in freak. But has you know how USL has kind of been able to jump into these pockets and these markets that are outside of the top 25, 30 DMAs that your mate MLS or NBAs that they stick to, and it's true in other parts of the country too? But I feel like they've also been really able to kind of take advantage of what this kind of sleeper soccer market in the South.

Ben Freakley: 15:40

Back in 2016, when we had our first home, we aimed at Tormenta, I mean, and it was PDL back then. I mean it's USL, but back then they called it PDL and I think we had 3,500 people, yeah, and I just remember walking out and saying the same thing that night. I mean, I said wow, and I had to remind myself you're here to coach the team, but this is really cool and I was so excited for all of us.

Ben Freakley: 16:16

We had a saying at Tormento which is pros, start here.

Ben Freakley: 16:20

Because it was the PDL and it was the first pathway into pro and before even fans came through the gate, you know, we were just thinking about how to take care of the players. You know, we felt if you really looked after them and took care of them and took as much off their plate as you could, then they could really focus on putting a great product out on the field West. That night, 3,500 people came out to that game and we lost that night. But we won in terms of the experience and we did things that I thought were essential. For example, placing portable stands right behind the goal During a college soccer season. For whatever reason, georgia Southern wasn't doing that, which I thought was even hurting the experience for the university players, but we were able to make that happen for the pro team and you would have players that would score a goal and run right behind the goal and be able to celebrate with the fans and that made them feel like they were a part of the experience.

Ben Freakley: 17:35

And it just the way that Tormento was able to transform a college soccer track and soccer complex to make it feel like a soccer specific environment. Again, there's no small parts and we would have our players on game day moving those bleachers out behind us. The stuff you don't see about, kind of like you said, different markets that's definitely not happening at Atlanta United.

Ben Freakley: 18:06

On game day you aren't having players move that around, so it was just so much work that went in. But what I saw, the players were absolutely invested and because we took such great care of them when we asked them to help move bleachers and things like that, they didn't say a word about it. They really felt like it was really unique what they were getting to do and we were all reminded each other. We were the first ones that ever got to do something like this and you're getting to experience that as well, as you know.

Wes Harris: 18:39

Yeah, yeah, and it's great. I mean you talk about, I mean even talk about, like Atlanta, and the fandom that you experienced there when you're there. Man, that's just gotta be wild. They pack that place and, for those that don't know, they play in the same stadium that the Falcons do Mercedes fans.

Ben Freakley: 18:57

No, the Falcons play in the same stadium that they play in the same stadium.

Wes Harris: 19:01

There you go, there you go, and that's, I'm sure, what Atlanta United fans would say. But I mean, that's the ownership that they have there, right, in terms of the emotional ownership over that town and that club. I mean, you get to experience it firsthand, man, talk about it.

Ben Freakley: 19:19

I don't even I can't really put that into words. I remember my first time walking across the bends for the first ever game that I got to attend, and the person kind of escorted me across was kind of walking me and I said do you mind if we just stop for a minute?

Ben Freakley: 19:38

Yeah, take it all in To be able to out on the field and to look up. And I've been to many games there now and every single time electricity is coursing through your veins when you walk through there. I've been there when there's been 40,000. I've been there when there's 70,000. And every time you can feel an entire city behind their team and what they do. In the supporters section. I know you recently had on a local supporters group and what that brings that aspect, the social element that a group like that brings to the team. Wes, I was at one of our playoff games against Columbus when Shonday, one of our players, he kind of missed a sitter and it was a tough moment for him and then for the next almost three minutes the entire stadium was chanting that guy's name. I mean, you talk about home field advantage and this is a message for anybody that listens to this. You think, oh well, going or not going to the game doesn't make that much, it makes a difference.

Wes Harris: 20:45

Absolutely.

Ben Freakley: 20:46

The players on the field can absolutely feel when they have a whole community behind them and if there's ever that kind of 12th man advantage, that's what that home field element brings to it. Going to a game at the Benz is for any soccer fan it's a must, and I've talked to many players on the Atlanta United team that have played in Champions League games, that have played in stadiums all over the world, and the Mercedes-Benz Stadium is at the top of their list of best places to play.

Wes Harris: 21:14

That's awesome. That's awesome. I mean, unfortunately, we won't be building a 60 or 70,000 seat stadium. Maybe one day, guys, but not in the foreseeable near future. But I can promise you that the atmosphere that we want to bring and aspire to bring and so too does our supporters group, if you hear them talk is going to build that and create that in our own way and make our house just an absolute fortress. And so I loved what Carlos said no matter what happens on the field, you have to win in the stands.

Ben Freakley: 21:51

I love that.

Wes Harris: 21:52

And you have to be able to look back and say that you did everything you could as a fan and we brought the atmosphere, and if it was an unfortunate result, we'll live to fight another day, but our guys and ladies knew that we were there to support them with everything that we had.

Ben Freakley: 22:07

So can't ask for more than that.

Wes Harris: 22:10

No, no, you can't, and that's what we're going to do. That's what we're going to do. So you talked a little bit about it, Northwest Arkansas and John kind of moving into our project and you're so excited about it, and we've talked with you a couple of times and just appreciate your insight so much as someone that's been around sport been around pro sports, been around soccer, been around USO, been around MLS, MLB. Now you've been a resident of NWA for a few years. What about this market? Have you seen, like we all know that this is going to work internally, but and I think a lot of people can feel that it is and it's exciting but from your perspective, why do you think this is going to work? And in this market, specifically this sport? Talk a little bit about what makes you excited about a USL clone coming to Northwest Arkansas.

Ben Freakley: 23:11

So, first traveling some with the Rowdies to bigger or smaller markets, I've seen a following. No matter where we're going, people have support. Even in Atlanta United, where they have the twos that used to be in the USL, you would still get supporters go out to that. I've been to games at Tulsa, where they play, unfortunately, inside of a baseball stadium, but that does not stop the people from coming out and supporting their team and Wes. I think that people here can be very selective in where they wanna spend their time and where they spend their money.

Ben Freakley: 24:02

Northwest Arkansas has a lot of options for hobbies, recreation and leisure, and I know that you and your team have thought about that, and so what this makes me think about I lived in Savannah, georgia, when the bananas came to town.

Ben Freakley: 24:21

I lived, and I know we're not a gimmicky experience, but what I do appreciate about what you all are doing is the idea that there's gonna be kind of a party taking place in the stands.

Ben Freakley: 24:38

There's some incredible vibes going on there and oh, by the way, there's an incredible product out on the field as well. So I think this is gonna work, because you've got a lot of soccer people that are in this area. I think this is gonna work, because there's not U of A, for example, doesn't have a men's product. They've got an incredible women's game there, but they don't have right now something for males. You guys are gonna be able to really provide that in the region. And also, just again, going back to the couple of times that I've met with you all, what you and Chris and Warren are thinking about right now the collective experience and the passion that you have and the grassroots element. I mean you guys are everywhere. They're everywhere. I was over at the Jones Center meeting with them a couple of weeks ago and your name and USL Arkansas came up and someone's like oh yeah, I see those guys everywhere and so I think the that's great to hear.

Ben Freakley: 25:41

Yeah Well, the grassroots, the really trying to building this and really the compression effort. I know you're working at the top to get partnerships, sponsors, financial backing, but you're also working at the bottom as well, just around people that love the game, and you're compressing those two together until you're ready to bring the product out there. Right.

Ben Freakley: 26:06

So I mean for me, the region that we live in. When I heard that you guys were doing this, I was like, yeah, that just makes total sense. And I think you have people here that, even though they can be selective on where they spend their time and money, they don't need to love soccer to come and experience, and it's only gonna take one or two games when it's done right Yep, when it's done right and for people just to have a great time, whether they're sitting in the supporter section or different pricing packages of seats, that experience they get is it's all it's gonna take to hook them.

Wes Harris: 26:48

It's a different experience. It is, it just is and it's so unique and special and, man, I just I can't wait Every time I get goosebumps. I literally have goosebumps right now and just thinking about it and talking about it with you in the atmosphere that we're gonna create and the special thing that we're trying to build here with the community. So, last and for me, one of the really cool things about you and your experience and is kind of your next evolution of your career and where you've been working on for the last decade or so is that, and maybe longer, that sports psychology space. Talk a little bit more about the work that you do and kind of the evolution of that space as it relates to pro sports and how it could even translate into cause. One of the things that I'm also really passionate about is youth sports, youth soccer. Talk a little bit more about what you do there and how you engage with clubs and players and staff and, yeah, Sure.

Ben Freakley: 27:57

So most of my work that I do now is a lot of individual one-on-one work with players and coaches. When I was with the Blue Jays, we came up with our what's our departmental, what's our mental performance department's philosophy, and it's this, and I still believe, into this day. Elite performers can self-regulate their attention and their emotion under pressure, in any circumstance. So you're a goalkeeper about to face a PK, or somebody about to take a penalty kick, or you're up one zero with five minutes to go.

Wes Harris: 28:37

That PK thing just real quick. One of the most mentally strenuous things that you can go through as an athlete.

Ben Freakley: 28:46

Or imagine being a baseball player with bases loaded and being the pitcher or the hitter in that moment and focusing on the right things can go very well and the wrong things can end up having you wishing you had that moment back many times over. So yeah, my help, my work that I do right now is predominantly one-on-one and it's so individualistic. Well, sports like is not a canned approach. I had two sessions with pro soccer players yesterday. One specifically wanted to talk about goals for 2024. And that, just to me, is a testament of how elite these guys are. I mean, the season just ended Just ended.

Ben Freakley: 29:33

And it's no west for the weary, it's been. I wanna get on a call, I wanna talk about my goals for preseason, my goals during the season, and it's just so fun to be in those conversations. And then another player it was. He has, toward the end of the year, made his way back from an injury and it's still not feeling great. And so the thoughts and feelings that come along with that and basically Wes, that's anxiety, that's a lot of a player's mind in the future.

Ben Freakley: 30:10

And so, again, the self-regulation of attention would be well, how do you bring your attention back onto what you are doing right now? And so it's just so unique the work that I'm doing Now from a team perspective. When I work with the entire team, it would be around team dynamics. It would be around earlier what you mentioned about role, strengths on the field, a lot of that task cohesion on the field. I know what Wes is gonna do, wes knows what Ben is gonna do and in my team sessions it's trying to help really, really pull that out, but most of it is it's one-on-one working with players and coaches about, maybe performance gaps, but also strengths as well. I think sports like gets a little bit of a stereotype that people on my field are there to play deficit detective and look for what's wrong with a player from a mental skills perspective or what's wrong with the team. But I'm equally equally and a lot of times starting with looking for what's right and trying to pull and making sure players and teams are leaning into their strengths as well.

Wes Harris: 31:23

No, that's so cool and I love your point about the individual one-on-one. It's really not a canned approach. I don't think it can be right Because everybody's different, every situation is different. You have to be able to adapt and be able to assess and diagnose and whatever here's the game plan, it's gonna be so different for each player or coach or situation or team.

Wes Harris: 31:49

How has that kind of evolved? I think even in fairly recent share timelines, because and I, you know whether it's a broader conversation, you know, as just society and and mental health and well-being has come a lot more to the forefront and become, you know, less taboo and more part of our everyday conversation and then making its way into sports and and you know, either fortunately or unfortunately, you know, their, their lives are a lot of the time in the spotlight and so, whether they like it or not, they kind of get thrust up there on this platform and you know they're kind of guinea pigs in a way, in terms of kind of what does it mean to talk about these things in the open forum and Trying to make it normal and normalizing it? Yeah, I don't steal your thunder, but like all of these things kind of really interest me and intrigue me and kind of you watch the evolution of that space over the last few years and you have you know, I think of athletes like Naomi Osaka, who took some time and just literally time off like I need to go work on on on me and just take a break just for my own health and mental health is health, all those things yeah well

Ben Freakley: 33:12

it's not my thunder, it's our responsibility. Yeah, you nailed it. This has been More normalized and we still have a long, long way to go.

Wes Harris: 33:22

Yes, we do.

Ben Freakley: 33:24

We're lucky that more and more athletes that are in the spotlight are Stepping forward and Normalizing with a lot of courage and vulnerability. This is what's going on in my life. Yeah, it was some Pretty real experiences that I had working with the blue jays that motivated me to add clinical mental health counseling to my Education. So when I was going through to Get my doctoral work it's a blended program, so it's a doctoral degree in sport and performance psychology With an emphasis in clinical mental health counseling. And, along the way, one of my mentors, who's a real legend in the field of psychology, dr Steven Hayes. He reminded me mental health is not a one in five thing. Mental health is a five out of five thing or five out of five people, and it just varies in degree, intensity and frequency. This is some. Some people have diagnosed clinical mental health issues, disorders, and other people can experience some Mental health challenges that may not need a diagnosis or long-term treatment. But we all struggle and and my goal and this is I learned this from my mentor, dr Hayes Is that we don't suffer in silence, yeah, and so I think it's our responsibility to to normalize this and and and give players a platform In in team environments that that is part of why I get employed by those teams that I mentioned earlier Is to make sure that well-being is a critical component and and and.

Ben Freakley: 35:15

If you're only a Win at all cost team, if the only conversations are about winning and performance, yeah, then the environment becomes very transactional and it can make it really tough for a player to be vocal about any challenges they may be experiencing.

Ben Freakley: 35:35

But if you're an environment where you're ready to offer, yes, we want to win. We're never gonna take that off the table when this team gets stood up, you guys want to go undefeated why wouldn't you? Yeah, but we also want to operationalize success in looking at what type of resources Do we provide for our players as well, and I think that's that's why I'm so grateful. The organizations that I've had a chance to be a part of. Roles like mine are not just box-checking they. They give people like me a real opportunity To get in and to do work and to help players when when they need help, and I think the more proactive we can be with this, the more we normalize it, the more players are gonna feel like they're an environment where they can be set up to bring their best out when it's time to perform, because they know they have people that are there to support them as well.

Wes Harris: 36:33

Yeah, no, and I Love this episode, I love this topic, I love you. Know I could talk to you all day, man, how does this? I Think it's also important to talk about how this translates into the youth game, and I Think work that still needs to be done because I think now we're starting to normalize it and talk about it in the professional space. But also there's a lot to be said about everything and and the the strains on a Growing youth and maturing youth, the teenager, all the things of life now, especially in this day and age, with all the technology, social media pressures and everything else about just being a teenager. Oh, by the way, you're now a, you know, potentially a high-level athlete trying to make it to the next level and the pressures that come with that. You know, and you know. I think that there's a lot more room, not just at the professional level, but especially even into the youth space within sports. Yep.

Ben Freakley: 37:33

Yeah, we need to be supporting coaches. Coach. It's been my experience that most of the coaches that I come across are are as enthusiastic as you and I are yeah about how to Understand the psychological, social, emotional needs of athletes.

Ben Freakley: 37:56

There is a Great model out there comes out of Canada in terms of long-term athlete development, which is pretty prescriptive of what different ages and stages need and the athletes journey. Yeah, by the time, by the time athletes are putting on that USL Jersey Winning is absolutely a priority. At nine years old, it's not right. And the challenge that we have, especially in our country, is, you know, we we over emphasize the result and we under emphasize developmental opportunities, technical development opportunities, psychological development opportunities, emotional development opportunities. But I but I think for the most part a lot of the coaches that I've come across are eager to learn this. Yeah, and I think that there are little things that we can do as coaches to bake sports psychology concepts into the environment, for example, getting our players to reflect more. I think if I had only one opportunity to get in front of a group of coaches, I would want to encourage them to hold back more on the prescriptive directive, instructive, telling all the time and maybe lean more into curiosity with players and be more of a guide for players, to empower them and ask them questions like Wes, when you were getting all the ball there.

Ben Freakley: 39:32

You played back to the goalkeeper. But what were your other options? Oh, coach, I could have dribbled inside. Okay, you get a dribble inside. Then what would have happened? And then players are really feeling a real sense of self and self-expression. And there's just so much great research out there on the self-determination theory and some environmental factors like autonomy and competence and sense of belonging that can prime motivation and just with a few tweaks to the environment, those can be the differences between players choosing to stay in the sport and continue to develop versus. You know, I didn't really feel like I belonged. I felt like my coach just yelled at me on the time and didn't really praise me that much. Peace out, I'm going to go try another sport or quit altogether.

Wes Harris: 40:22

Or quit altogether, yeah, which is just the worst scenario.

Ben Freakley: 40:26

Yeah, you're right.

Wes Harris: 40:27

As a coach I do coach youth and my number one goal. I have two goals One did they? Three goals. One did they have fun? Two did they learn something? And three I don't need. I would love it if they got better, but as long as they're learning, that should come. What age they're seven.

Ben Freakley: 40:47

Yeah, I tell moms and dads all the time they're seven. I tell moms all the time if your player is seven, eight or nine and at the end of the season they want to play again.

Wes Harris: 40:56

the next season. You've done your job. That's my number three.

Ben Freakley: 40:59

That's the metric.

Wes Harris: 41:00

That's it, that's success. They want to play again. Did they sign up again for the next year or the next season? Then great.

Ben Freakley: 41:05

As they get older, we can add on, we can assess different things, but at seven, if they want to play where they're eight. You were an amazing coach.

Wes Harris: 41:16

Well, that's awesome, man and gosh, we could make 10 podcast episodes together. But for now I'll say thank you one more time for coming out and just a reminder to everybody to just go online. Appreciate your support, go online, find us at pitch2procom, uslarkinsawcom. At pitch2pro and at uslarkinsaw, engage with us, talk to us. We want to hear from you and can't wait to continue building this with you guys. Until next time. Thanks for joining us on Pitch2Pro. Thanks, ben.

Ben Freakley: 41:46

Thank you.