Toronto: Tree City of the World

This week we return to our conversation with the City of Toronto’s Director of Urban Forestry, Kim Statham. Last episode we talked about some of the challenges and opportunities facing Toronto’s urban forest, but this episode we take a step back, and contextualize these issues more broadly. Kim discusses Toronto’s participation in the United Nations Environment Program, where cities from around the world collaborate to promote ecological restoration and facilitate knowledge exchange.
In addition to the role cities play on the international stage to reach our climate and biodiversity goals, Kim explains how subnational governments can contribute through building both physical ecological corridors and relational ones. We also learn about how Toronto’s approach to urban forestry has earned its status as a leader in this arena.

Check out Toronto's Tree City of the World Award news release.

Make sure to check out the show notes on the podcast webpage for more links and helpful resources.

You can help this community grow by sharing the podcast with your friends.

Restorers: A Water Street Podcast
Over these short episodes, we will be introducing you to the heroes who are working in...

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Purpose & Profit Club™ for Nonprofits
The Playbook to Raise & Reach Millions Faster Than Ever Before -- No gimmicks!

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Transcript

Jan Sumner: 0:00

Welcome to the Clear Cut. Hi, I'm Janet Sumner, Executive Director at Wildlands League.

Kaya Adleman: 0:08

And I'm Kaya Adelman, Carbon Manager at Wildlands League.

Jan Sumner: 0:14

Wildlands League is a Canadian conservation organization working on protecting the natural world.

Kaya Adleman: 0:21

The Clear Cut is bringing to you the much-needed conversation on Canadian forest management and how we can better protect one of Canada's most important ecosystems, as our forests are reaching a tipping point.

Jan Sumner: 0:40

So this is episode two, with Kim Statham, who is the director of forestry for the city of Toronto urban forestry, where we have trees where most Canadians live, which is in places that are highly populated. The trees are competing with office towers and condo buildings and all kinds of road networks, et cetera. These brave souls are making sure that we have a really good tree canopy cover, which is going to ultimately help us with droughts, floods and heat and keep our cities safer as we experience more change from climate change. So it's exciting to have this conversation.

Kaya Adleman: 1:29

Yeah, definitely. I think it's timely too. We had a heat dome in eastern Canada. I don't know about you, jan, but have you been feeling the effects of the cooling from Toronto's urban tree canopy?

Jan Sumner: 1:44

Well, I actually have a lot of trees in my neighborhood, so we do feel it Like if you go along some of these streets with all the big trees, especially when the sun's over top and in the sunshine it just it really hits you, and then all of a sudden you're underneath the trees and it's like ah, relief. And if there's grass underneath or there's other vegetation as well that you can, you can feel that cooling and in the morning walks and things like that, you get the um, the dew on the trees and on the vegetation underneath and that definitely feels so much better.

Kaya Adleman: 2:19

Yeah, I went for a run earlier this week and I was purposefully picking out the places the sides of the road where there were trees, and it definitely did make a difference in this weather.

Jan Sumner: 2:33

Yeah, I had dinner with a friend of mine the other night down in the very southern part of Toronto near Union Station and his walk. He had to go, you know, a fair distance north and he was saying he was going to pick his streets to maximize the tree coverage and he'd already done the math. He'd already figured out all the ways in which he could find a path that got him some trees. So, yeah, I think people are drawn to it out of necessity, but also because it's just much more pleasant the bird song, etc. Big birders love the trees. Kim's going to start this episode off talking about how Toronto has received another Tree City of the World Award, which is great, and I want to also stress in terms of laying this out.

Jan Sumner: 3:24

We've talked to Kim, who's at the City of Toronto. It's, yes, it's one of our largest cities, but it's an example 11 other cities around the world who were chosen under the United Nations Environment Program to think about all the other projects that they could be doing and learn from each other, etc. Etc. And I was asked to speak at a conference I think it was over a year ago now and Vancouver had been positioning itself as a sponge city and thinking about how green infrastructure, which is what vegetation and plants and trees are called, can help with droughts and flooding and heat. And other cities have the same kind of mindset, as I mentioned London, ontario, but I know Edmonton and many other cities across Canada are thinking in this regard. We just chose Toronto because we had access and we could have chosen many other cities to profile. So this is just an example of how urban forestry can or is improving the natural world in and around where most Canadians live.

Kaya Adleman: 4:39

Yeah, so thanks, kim, and make sure to check out the first part of our interview, if you haven't already, and I'm excited to to learn more about urban forestry did you see our news release on earth day?

Jan Sumner: 4:57

sorry, no, no, no, I did not see that, but you go ahead with your news release on earth day. Please tell us all about it.

Kim Statham: 5:03

So I was so pleased. I've spent lots of wonderful, wonderful Earth Days. This one was extra special. We announced that Toronto has just received its fifth consecutive Tree City of the World Award, awarded by the Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations and the Arbor Day Foundation. I was so pleased to join Deputy Mayor McKelvey and our General Manager of Parks, forestry and Recreation, howie Dayton, to raise a flag at Scarborough Civic Centre to honour this. We're really proud this is very reflective of the program, of the team, of the work that we do and so pleased to join all of the other cities that were recognised as well. Five years ago, there were 59 cities recognised and in 20, for 2023, 200, roughly 200 cities were recognized. This is a fantastic network of tree cities around the world that know what they have, that have plans for their protection and their expansion and make efforts to celebrate with communities you know in their, in their neighborhoods.

Kaya Adleman: 6:35

Do you want to talk a little bit about the United Nations Environment Program? Do.

Kim Statham: 6:41

Yes, so we were really pleased to have Toronto City Council support to apply to a program late last year, late 2023. This is a program called Generation Restoration, being organized by the United Nations Environment Program and ICLEI, and we found out late last year that Toronto was chosen as a role model city. We joined one of nine other role model cities around the world and we joined about 11 pilot cities around the world. The premise of this program is to promote ecological restoration and to facilitate knowledge exchange between cities. We know that and we've talked about this already that subnational governments have a huge role to play in biodiversity conservation and nature-based solutions. Cities have impacts, but they also have incredible support, funding programs to address all of these things. You know all of all of these things and it it's it's really a network where model cities will serve, as you know, champions of restoration, with peer to peer exchanges, contributing knowledge, development of tools and, and you know, discussions to look at how and what role cities play in global biodiversity conservation.

Kim Statham: 8:29

We were very excited to be chosen as one of the role model cities. We're absolutely thrilled that Montreal has also since joined those ranks. So those are the two Canadian cities which are representing through this program, both cities with huge commitment to biodiversity Of course Montreal hosted COP 15 last year and within the UN decade on ecosystem restoration, these are conversations we need to be having and, again, not just, you know, connecting. You know. I love the conversation we've had today. We've talked about, well, how do we connect with local municipalities, how do we connect, you know, federally and provincially, and this is a program that Toronto is involved in, that's connecting cities globally. We have a lot to learn, we have a lot to share and it's a two-year program that we're so, so thrilled to be supporting.

Jan Sumner: 10:15

Because I think you attended something in was it Paris? And not going to give away your secrets, but I wonder, are there some of the other cities that you've already taken note of and you've kind of gone? Oh, I really like what they do on that, or I'm interested in that and can you give us maybe a sneak preview before you've completed your two years.

Kim Statham: 10:42

So when I attended the first workshop in December, I filled up three notebooks of ideas and inspiration and I think what struck me the most is how similar we are to other cities in a global environment. Quezon City, Philippines, you know, have mangrove forests. I don't have. We don't have mangrove forests here, but the role that they play related to protecting cities from, you know, ocean currents and flooding, flood risk is very similar to how our river valleys here in Toronto serve as flood conveyance.

Kim Statham: 11:36

I was so impressed by Cape Town, South Africa, and the work that they're doing with, with their very unique invasive species species I've never heard of before but in terms of the same challenges that we have in Toronto with, with invasive species, with management techniques, with, you know, public support and funding to to address that, address that challenge. I think it was said, their city has the most biodiversity, it's the most biodiverse city in the world, and just it was so inspiring to meet and to learn what they're doing. To meet and to learn what they're doing. The other city that I was so impressed by was Kanazawa City in Japan, and what they brought to the table was preserving biodiversity by supporting cultural samurai gardens, how to care and prune and sustain these gardens with tourism and younger generations that that may travel and come and have an opportunity to learn and sustain that knowledge. So it so, that was so inspiring.

Jan Sumner: 13:26

Wow, that's amazing when cities get a chance to connect right, because usually it's countries talking to each other, sometimes it's provinces speaking to certain US states kind of thing, or maybe a Mexican state, but it's not as common where you're kind of in the same room as a bunch of other cities who are maybe struggling with the same kinds of things Toronto is struggling with.

Kim Statham: 13:49

And one of the takeaways. Again, we're at the beginning of this network and this program, but what we're looking to figure out together is financing how do we globally finance nature-based solutions? It is a very interesting conversation because we and when I say we, I mean different cities, different levels of government, collect different data, we monitor our natural resources in different ways and so and we have different funding models or lack thereof, you know entirely. And so this is going to be a really interesting conversation that I think will benefit international level conversations, national governments and subnational governments on again, we have collective goals. How do we measure collectively? How do we finance collectively? And, you know, make those collective decisions, if you will, all for that common goal of biodiversity protection and ecosystem restoration, that common goal of biodiversity protection and ecosystem restoration.

Jan Sumner: 15:14

Well, I don't want to neglect the fact that Canada does have its own organizing framework for cities with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, but getting a chance to learn from an international scale what other countries and cities and cultures are doing in their municipalities, it's really quite an incredible opportunity. So I'm glad that Toronto's at that table and Montreal so those are two great cities in Canada. We now have qualified to be able to run commercials on our podcast. This may not seem like a good thing for some people, but for us at the Clear Cut, it's a very good thing. It means that you, our public, are now downloading over a thousand copies of each episode a month, which is fantastic, and it puts us into a new bracket where people want to actually advertise on the podcast.

Jan Sumner: 16:09

We are going to do our very best to make sure that the ads that run on the podcast are something that may be of relevance or of interest to you, and hope that you can listen to these ads and see them as a marker of success and your faith in the podcast. So thank you so much for listening to the Clear Cut. I know that, kaya, and I appreciate it so very, very much, thank you. The clear cut. I know that, kaya, and I appreciate it. So very, very much Thank you. I know that I'm very proud of the trees and the canopy cover and certainly during the pandemic it was the only place to be was in one of the city parks. I mean, I go there quite often anyway but it was just you could see people's relief just being in a place where they could at least nod to each other, say hi and be, out there in nature.

Jan Sumner: 16:56

It was really quite fantastic. And of course, we have a lot of wildlife in and around the city of Toronto as well, which take advantage of all of the places that we call forests and tree canopy and you know things like that, so it makes Toronto a very busy place as well and you get a chance to really see nature.

Kim Statham: 17:16

I think there is nothing more spectacular than you know. Driving along one of the ravines, I can think of York Mills and Yonge Street there was a bit of a backup but I couldn't understand why. But I did when I crawled up in traffic and deer grazing just off the road. You see them along the Don Valley Parkway in the Lower Don Parkland. I live in a downtown ward and I came home one day to having an opossum that's right, an opossum napping on my back deck. He might not have been napping before we got there, but we certainly startled him when we came in from from school and work. So he might have, uh, immediately played, played that uh that dead card but it's, um, it's.

Kim Statham: 18:07

It's so important to understand that we share, you know, this space and those are amazing indicator species to know or to really reflect or speak to the health of the natural world that we have here in the city. It's a perfect time of year. We have migratory birds coming back. I walk the dog in the mornings and there's a Carolina wren every year for a few weeks that, you know, is making its way through and stops in in my neighborhood, and that's that's what's really incredible about this network that we have is taking stocks, taking notice, um, not just appreciating you know the shade that trees provide as you walk down the street, but maybe the scent of their flowers, the birds that are. You know that call them home. You know the other wildlife that we might see if you live, work or play in one of Toronto's larger natural areas. It's really quite incredible.

Jan Sumner: 19:16

It's good that you remind me of that because I remember a few years ago I was helping the federal government design its plan for how to protect 30% of Canada by 2030. And as we were doing that and thinking through that Canada by 2030. And as we were doing that and thinking through that and it was to motivate provinces and encourage Indigenous-led protection and get to that 30% by 2030. And I would say that a number of people got lost in that 30% and thought, oh well, that's not going to include me because we're in a city, we don't have that much land we can't. Oh well, that's not going to include me because we're in a city, we don't have that much land, we can't do a big protection, it's not going to add a percentage point to Canada's target, etc. And I know that municipalities were not entirely left out, but largely left out of that equation because it was really trying to get the big percentages. And I think we could have done a better job, and I count myself in and amongst the people who didn't necessarily get it all the way right. I mean, we did move the needle on protection, there's no question. But one of the things that I think that we forgot or that we don't focus on yet is that getting to 30% by 2030, this target, that is international, is there because we actually want to protect ecosystems and make sure that they're thriving and healthy, and we often think, okay, well, it's the site of an ecosystem. You can draw a boundary around it, it's geographically located, but the reality is that many of these species that you were just mentioning, like, for example, monarch butterflies, are very important to people who are living in cities. We see the monarch butterfly gardens being put up. We also understand that birds are dependent on having all different kinds of places where they can land and feed or rest on their migratory paths.

Jan Sumner: 21:13

So if we go about the business of, let's say, protecting a large area, like we've been working on in Hudson Bay and James Bay, which is part of Canada's boreal forest, to protect all those areas where it's like a big bug stew up there, and people often say, well, you know why do they go to the boreal? And they say, oh well, because it's where they, it's their breeding grounds, and I'm like, no, they go up to feast on bugs. They just love the bugs up there, so they go all the way up there. They're feasting on the bugs. But then they got to fly south and some of them are going as far south as Antarctica. So where are they going to stop?

Jan Sumner: 21:47

That's a heck of a journey. Like are you? You could maybe find a farmer's field, maybe you can get a tree along the way. But some of our cities, like those ravines that you talk about, those are flyways. Those are places where birds just go through them and they launch themselves out across the Great Lake Lake, ontario, and then go through the US and then they're down to South America, et cetera. But imagine if we didn't have cities like Toronto or many other cities that had incredible vegetation cover and tree cover that those birds could find respite and food along their journeys, both migrating south and then coming back north again. So it's an important part of that 30 by 30, because if the goal is to get to healthy, thriving ecosystems, we need to think about the migratory patterns of birds, for sure for monarch butterflies, for many others, and if we don't, then we're missing a beat, because you can't just protect an area in the north and one in the south and say good luck, hope you make it. It's not going to happen.

Kim Statham: 22:50

And isn't that? You know, exactly what we learn in, you know, ecosystem management 101 is that we cannot have these isolated patches of habitat. You need ecological corridors, both visually and on the ground, for migrating species. And in Toronto, our ravine system, by its nature, is north to south, all of the headwaters, all of the rivers that run through the city and in Lake Ontario, and so you know, when we're looking at, how do we collectively look at protected lands, does it matter if it's a ravine in Toronto? Does it matter if it's Canada's first urban national park, in Rouge National Urban Park? It doesn't.

Kim Statham: 23:37

To the bird that is migrating, to monarchs that come up to roost and rest and to seek, you know, habitat, food, shelter. And that's what I think is really interesting and where the, you know, opportunities remain in terms of this collaboration and in terms of, you know, federal, provincial, municipal goals towards biodiversity protection, ecosystem services, nature-based solutions. Nature-based solutions. Nature is a collection of these spaces and that's what we need to turn our minds to, what happens, you know, just outside our boundaries and how can we collectively reach goals which are common goals you've spoken a few times about the.

Jan Sumner: 24:40

you know that's the border of toronto and that's and and I imagine you're also having conversations just outside the border of toronto, because those ecosystems are, whether it's the headwaters for the Don or the Humber, those headwaters are elsewhere, and so we have to actually be working together with other municipalities as they think through their plans as well. How does that work for a city like Toronto? How do you go about that?

Kim Statham: 25:05

Well, I think initiatives like 30 by 30 um kind of are the vehicle to have those conversations so of interest. Of the six rivers that run through toronto on their on their path down to lake ontario, only one has its headwaters within our municipal boundaries and that's highland, which is right in between the Rouge and the Don. And so land use planning decisions that happen in headwaters have an impact through the city and that's why it's important that we work with conservation authorities in this area. We work with Toronto and Region Conservation Authority to consider those impacts. You know I've talked a lot about our goals and about the great things across Toronto's urban forest.

Kim Statham: 26:00

You know, one of the things that is a challenge that we see we're seeing trends from our two tree canopy studies is that loss of permeable space is the loss of a plantable area. Cities need to grow, housing is critical and every city, you know, needs to and has housing plans. There is a way to balance housing with nature, with tree canopy as trees being one of the critical elements of livable cities. And so, you know, as we look toward the future on, you know, opportunities to expand, we very much keep in mind. Well, where are we seeing the challenges and where are we losing ground, literally and figuratively?

Jan Sumner: 26:54

I do want to ask a question also about ecological corridors, and I'm going to ask you if you have anything to do with the Meadoway project. Sure yeah, I can speak to that, okay, yeah, let's do Meadoway. So let's talk about Meadoway. I'm talking about all of the favorite places that I like to go. So the Meadoway is basically the hydro corridor across quite a big swath of Toronto and they're they're returning it to being a Meadoway, right, yeah, okay, maybe you can talk about that, kim. That'd be great.

Kim Statham: 27:23

So you know, we have natural ecological corridors and we have human made ecological corridors, and the Meadoway is a fantastic project led by the Toronto and Region Conservation Authority with amazing support from the Weston Family Foundation. I've been grateful to be on some walks and some openings of the different reaches and different areas of the trail. It is so important from both an ecological perspective but also an accessibility perspective and getting people into places to experience the benefits of trees and nature. One of the things that I'm most excited about the Meadoway is what it connects, so not just communities and the people of Toronto, but key ecological areas. In the future, the Meadoway will connect Rouge National Urban Park right into the heart of downtown Toronto, into the Don Valley and into our ravine system.

Kim Statham: 28:32

When we think of corridors and travel networks, you know, looking to improve options for cycling and walking and connectivity in our, you know, natural, more natural spaces is so important and this is a key, key project. Imagine, you know, living in a condo with no outdoor, private outdoor space and being able to hop on your bike, get on the Dawn Trail, take the Meadoway all the way out to to Rouge National Urban Park. Would be, would be just incredible, and that's the vision and that's the goal. We're really excited about it.

Jan Sumner: 29:55

Yeah, I don't live that far from Rouge National Urban Park and the Wildlands League office is down at Richmond and Spadina.

Jan Sumner: 30:04

And I remember a number of times I would, and this is when I was just cycling through the Taylor Massey Creek area and then going down there to but come upon a big buck deer sitting there early in the morning and I've also cycled the other route which is going from here to Rouge National Urban Park now, and that is, you know, it's yes, it's underneath hydro towers, but it is breathtaking how big it is and the number of birds that are in there, and they're meadow birds, right Like you could hear them sitting in the ground of birds that are in there.

Jan Sumner: 30:40

And then and they're meadow birds, right like you could, you could hear them sitting in the ground. They're not in trees, they're sitting in the grasses and they're just like humming along and the crickets are going and it feels like the, the meadows of my childhood. Um, you know, it's that that kind of very uh, in the heat of the summer, that just sort of clicking, clacking sound, and it's just, yeah, it's just magical. And so being able to get on your bike and ride through that is amazing and I think it will really help in terms of the mental health of people in the city, but also in terms of the wildlife, like all those flying creatures and the mammal movement that goes through there as well. Right, it's going to be really quite spectacular.

Kim Statham: 31:22

So, yeah, and Toronto also has a pollinator strategy and start from the ground. We need those places, we need the space and we need the different species to support those pollinators. And these are, when we think of the makeup of Toronto's natural areas, from intact forest to edge forest, to riparian zones, to rivers, to wetlands, right down to a waterfront, and you know that dynamic shoreline it is. You know we're very lucky to have this resource and the wildlife that it supports and we very much have, you know, can go hand in hand with the evolution of our city.

Jan Sumner: 32:18

The evolution of our city, the evolution of how people live, where people live, and you know this critical green infrastructure that really is necessary and I want to say a big thank you to Kim for walking us through what happens on urban forestry, and we probably haven't covered it all, but I do know that there are many municipalities across Canada who are working on urban forestry. They might have vegetation targets. I grew up in a city called London, ontario, which is called the Forest City, or that's what they called it. So still today you can go through town and see many businesses called Forest City and insert whatever business it does.

Jan Sumner: 33:09

But yeah, so it's pretty incredible that many Canadian cities identify with ravine systems or they might have big natural areas. I know Edmonton has a ravine system through it and we've got floodplains that exist in other cities in the prairies and in southern Alberta. And then, of course, vancouver has that incredible Stanley Park and Halifax has amazing areas as well. So right across this country our cities are full of amazing wildlife, vegetation and trees and it's so great to be able to just dive in a little bit on what's happening with the city that I live in and getting to because Kim and I know each other getting the chance to dive in on what's happening in the city of Toronto and how urban forestry works because it's a big part of everyday people's lives.

Kaya Adleman: 34:02

Yeah, I might also just want to add that the majority of Canadians live in cities, so what's happening in our own hometowns, our own urban areas, is pretty important, and it's something that people can get involved in pretty easily, I would say, or more easily than at the federal government level per se.

Kim Statham: 34:24

Absolutely. I mean people experience trees at a neighborhood level. It's a human scale. You see that tree grow, the tree I planted in the backyard. I have seen that and we, you know you have that connection. I think that, um, there are so many good programs for people to to get involved if they're interested. Toronto urban forestry has talks and tours. We have a recent partnership with tor Public Library. Trees and Books it's about as good as it gets. We do hands-on stewardship, volunteer planting events. We partner with organizations that do third-party or community-led, I should say, events as well. There's so many ways to get involved. Events as well. There's so many ways to get involved. I can name a few if it's helpful. Toronto urban forestry has a number of different ways to to engage, whether it's virtual, whether it's in person, whether you want to learn more or whether you want to get your hands dirty. We have a very popular event count, very populated event calendar spring and fall, and stewardship through the summers. So we can put the website for more information in your show notes later.

Jan Sumner: 36:08

And I was just going to say for all of our listeners if you're feeling your city's left out, we'd be more than happy to have a conversation on air with anybody else who wants to talk and rave about the incredible job they're doing on urban forestry for their city, because we really stand by those who are doing the hard work of taking care of our city's trees and vegetation. It's very important I know that kai and I both benefit from, or in montreal and me in toronto from how our folks inside the city are taking care of the natural areas, and a big shout out and kudos to all of them and to anybody who's working in a city context or a municipality or township or whatever you want to call it, because it is how Canadians are connecting to the natural world and it, it, it creates the very foundation upon which our love grows for our natural world. So, thank you, thank you, thank you, okay.

Kaya Adleman: 37:03

Yeah, I couldn't say I don't think I can follow that up, um, but yeah, I I I do think that I'm really glad that we had this conversation. Thanks, kim. I really did learn um a lot and I am really really impressed with all the work that you've been doing, and you know as someone from Montreal, there's a lot of shade no pun intended towards Toronto, but makes me appreciate the city that much more. So thank you.

Kim Statham: 37:34

Well, if I can say on behalf of civil servants everywhere, it is our absolute honor and pleasure to be working in service of urban forests. I am so grateful for the time and the conversation and thank you, Kaya and Janet. This has been a real pleasure.

Jan Sumner: 38:02

Well, kaya, that wraps another podcast where I have learned so very much, even if I thought I knew stuff. I learned so very much. I didn't know that toronto had a pollinator strategy oh, yeah, I didn't know that either no, very important.

Jan Sumner: 38:19

Yeah, we didn't so that was cool. And then all the programs that she talks about. We will actually include those, because she gives a lot of examples throughout the podcast of other organizations that they're working with, where you can get um free trees, where you can have conversations. And again, I know that this exists in other places. I recently did a conference down in London, ontario, where the city was present and they were providing free trees to people who wanted to sign up and get a tree. Actually, you could walk away right from the conference the Grow Wild, go Wild conference. That was put on by Carolinian Canada. So check out in your local city to see if they have some kind of program like that. I don't have a guarantee, but certainly anybody who's listening in Toronto you can take it from Kim that there is a free tree possibility in your future.

Kaya Adleman: 39:14

Yeah, it's very cool.

Jan Sumner: 39:15

Yeah, Any other major takeaways for you Kaya.

Kaya Adleman: 39:18

Oh yeah, definitely. Well, I think for me, the United Nations Environment Program, or UNEP program, was really cool to learn about. I think seeing the collaboration among like subnational actors to work towards like meeting our climate and biodiversity goals was really interesting. You know, I think information sharing in these programs across cities in the global context is super. All of these initiatives are super critical to meeting those goals that we have outlined for 2030 and 2050.

Kaya Adleman: 40:06

And, as someone who lives in a city, these concepts seem very accessible to me. Like you were saying and Kim was saying, there's ways to get involved and see what urban forestry initiatives are happening locally. See what urban forestry initiatives are happening locally. When we talk about forestry on the podcast and forest management on the podcast, a lot of times these concepts seem very far removed from us because they seem to be happening in very rural places where a lot of people who listen to the podcast might not necessarily have direct access to. And one of my other takeaways was I was connecting a lot of the themes from this interview with Kim to our episodes with Harvey Locke where we talked about the three phases of the nature needs half movement, so protecting already intact places, creating networks of nature connectivity for areas partially disturbed by industrial activities and then restoring already disturbed areas, and so this is kind of the restoration piece and when we talked about the Meadoway, a bit of the connectivity piece as well.

Jan Sumner: 41:14

Ooh thread in the needle there Kaya. Just thread in the needle, that's awesome.

Kaya Adleman: 41:18

I love that I have my dartboard with the peg and the string.

Jan Sumner: 41:23

That's fantastic. The other takeaway I don't have anything nearly as articulate as that, but the other thing that I wanted to mention was just how she highlighted the benefits of how they have improved. She comes from a very Western science training and now they've added and learned from the Indigenous knowledge and the incorporation of Indigenous knowledge, especially with the prescribed burn in High Park, so that is very interesting to me. That is a real example of how the world is actually changing as we start to open our minds and our hearts and work with indigenous people, and how we benefit, how the world benefits and how the practices that we are engaged in all change for the better.

Jan Sumner: 42:13

So that was really good and of course, I just I love having a conversation about all the places that we go and we walk and she highlights the many parks that she likes and for me it reminded my in my backyard was the, the ravine, with the uh, the Don Valley, and so I used to walk through there all the time. I had a dog at the time and used to walk through that place and I I just loved it. So, yeah, it was great to revisit that and think about the trees of the city I live in. If you like listening to the Clear Cut and want to keep the content coming, support the show. It would mean a lot to Kaya and I. The link to do so will be in the episode description below.

Kaya Adleman: 42:54

You can also become a supporter by going to our website at wwwwildlandsleagueorg. Slash the clear cut and also make sure to leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming platform. It would really help the podcast and stay tuned for new episodes by following us on social media.

Jan Sumner: 43:15

That's at Wildlands League on Instagram, twitter and Facebook or LinkedIn, of course.

Kaya Adleman: 43:22

See you next time.