The Market Hustle
Engineering an Empowered Life (guest: Vonn) Ep. 12
In this episode, we speak with Vonn (known as @itsthewealth4me on Twitter), an inspiring engineer with a diverse skill set. Born and raised in New York, she shares her journey of navigating her career towards the admirable goal of homeownership and building a life free of financial struggles.
Vonn's story shows what's possible with a clear plan, staying disciplined, and the curiosity to explore the unknown.
In this episode, we speak with Vonn (known as @itsthewealth4me on Twitter), an inspiring engineer with a diverse skill set. Born and raised in New York, she shares her journey of navigating her career towards the admirable goal of homeownership and building a life free of financial struggles.
Vonn's story shows what's possible with a clear plan, staying disciplined, and the curiosity to explore the unknown.
Hey everyone, welcome back to another Market Hustle podcast. Today I have our co-host Pierce Pierce. How are you doing today, man? I'm doing well, man.
Speaker 3:Today was a final sunny day in California after the last seven days of quote unquote torrential downpour. I mean it's been super rainy before, but I mean it's been like this before. I don't know what everyone's freaking out about. I mean it's just drive slower and stay inside if you can. I mean, other than that, dude, today was a sunny day, so I mean I can't complain. The weather's nice.
Speaker 2:That's good. That's good. Yeah, I heard about California kind of getting some downpour. You're starting to get some of that Washington weather kind of what we deal with on a daily basis Exactly Contaminating us, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, today we have a special guest with us. Her name is Vaughn Vaughn. Do you go by Vaughn or do you go by another name? I know you're Vaughn on. Twitter.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I go by Vaughn.
Speaker 2:Go by. Okay, cool, yeah. So Vaughn's all the way over here. She's joining us on this podcast. She took the time out of her day to come on here, share her story, share her insights. I've actually been following her page on Twitter for, I want to say, about six months now and she's been putting out some amazing educational content, just some great insights, some great unique insights. A lot of this financial content on Twitter and just Instagram in general. It can start to feel like a little echo chambery and I feel like Vaughn's page has started to bring more of a refreshing take on things, which has been amazing on my end. So, vaughn, welcome to the podcast and thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor. I used to have Instagram a long time ago and I used to follow your platform, and a few people that I know personally follow your platform on Instagram. I know you have, I think, almost 900,000 followers over there and I remember when you were first really starting that page. So to see your growth on Instagram and also on Twitter, it's been great to watch and I also enjoyed your content. So that's why I have followed you on Instagram and also on Twitter and I'm happy that we've had the chance to connect and interact. So thank you for this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, I'm definitely excited for this and just for more context for all the listeners. The best part about these podcasts when we bring on guests is like we usually, like I'm learning about the guests as you're listening and learning about the guests too. Like this is the first time Vaughn actually sat down with us to have these conversations. Like we've talked a little bit in the DMs. But the cool part about these podcasts when we have these guests on is like we're all learning together and Vaughn's going to be able to share some just key insights along her journey and her life, like what she's learned, and hopefully help a few of you gather some of those insights and skip some of the mistakes that are common when you're a beginner investor. So that all being said, Vaughn, so like I don't know, maybe tell us a little bit about just like what you do for a guy. From what I understand, you're an engineer. Is that correct?
Speaker 4:Yes, so just a little bit about me. I'm Vaughn. I am born and raised in New York. I grew up in the suburbs outside New York City, so about 20 minutes from Manhattan, in the town called Mount Vernon, new York. And my background my bachelor's degrees in electrical engineering. Then I did my masters in microelectronics engineering and from there I've been really lucky to have worked in big tech. I worked in GovTech and now I'm working for a little bit more of a smaller scale company doing a little bit more specialized design work for some of the safety hardware in regards to school shootings and big technology and working a little bit more from AI development. So that's kind of what I've been spending my time with right now.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. So I'm kind of curious, like, how have you figured out your background, your path, like when it comes to your employment path, like have you been like constantly learning about like different routes that are available to you, or have you had some sort of mentor? Like I'm just curious like how you've kind of ended up on your path because, especially working in big tech, like you have quite the experience, which is amazing. But I guess, like, how did you kind of end up where you are when it came to like make a decision? Like have you been doing it because you've always been kind of fascinated by the tech side of things, or was it more so of just trying to like maximize the opportunity when it comes to generating an income for yourself?
Speaker 4:Sure. So originally I wanted to be an anesthesiologist. My mom is an R and nurse and I had the opportunity to go to work with her one day. And then I realized I hate the hospital. It's too much for me. I'm not into blood and guts and people dying. It's just too much. And I tried to give it another try. But my grandfather ended up having surgery and it took me a really long time to wake up from the anesthesia and then that's when I canceled it out and said no way, this is too much responsibility, I don't want to go down that career path.
Speaker 4:So back in that time there wasn't really like a huge push for STEM like there is now, and I really was just one day looking on the computer like I think it was 2008 when the recession was happening. I was looking up online and I'm like what is a recession proof career? Because I remember hearing so many people saying that there were layoffs. I didn't really know what that meant, because I was in high school at the time. I was like I'm just going to look online If there's any information about what kind of careers are out there that are recession proof.
Speaker 4:So when I looked online, they were mentioning something like about engineering and I was kind of like, okay, I don't know what that is, but let me look into it and see if that aligns with what I'm interested in. So I would say, growing up I've always been like a top student and I've always really excelled in math and sciences. So I was like you know what? I think that I can kind of flip this instead of going to medical route, I can also use these skills going in the tech route. And like back then, of course, like nobody was telling women to go into engineering, it was like people are looking at me like I'm crazy. When.
Speaker 4:I said that I wanted to go into electrical engineering, they were kind of like why are you doing that? No, I don't know any woman that does that for work.
Speaker 2:So isn't? Aren't those classes like 90% male Like yeah?
Speaker 4:So I'm a bullet, yeah. So, doing my experience in both undergrad and grad school, I was one of the only women and that was, you know, that was a huge challenge. But even in my you know, in my professional career I'm usually one of the only women Like my job that I work in. Now we just hired a woman like two weeks ago, but prior to that I was the only woman in my team.
Speaker 4:So I think over the over the years I've kind of grown accustomed to it but, I definitely appreciate the messaging that's out there now to you know, kind of say that there's a lot of assortment in tech. I think people have such a limited viewpoint in regards to the opportunities but you know, tech spans across like a plethora of areas you have.
Speaker 4:You know, I've worked in drug tech, I've worked in big tech. Now we have beauty tech, we have environmental tech, so there's so many different things out there and you know, of course everybody's trying to look into seeing what's going to develop from AI and that's going to create a whole bunch of new opportunities.
Speaker 4:So I really think I can't say that I had a mentor because, like I said, when I went into it at that time nobody really knew what it was, what engineering really was Like. I remember at the time people were saying to me you mean electrician and I'm like no electrical engineer, but people just kept saying electrician. So I just was like all right, fine, because you know explaining that to people. And then when I decided to do my masters and my electronics they were like what the hell are you talking about? So you know, for a long time it's like my dad, he's a teacher and he would just go to work and say she does something with computers. So that's what people think. They think I'm an electrician or I'm like a computer engineer. So I didn't really have a mentor.
Speaker 4:Most of my journey professionally and even investing, was really just taking a leap, a lot of learning things the hard way and they silly, because I was really one-on-one. I didn't really have any guidance and I think the first really step that I took to kind of defining my career was when I went and did my master's. So the particular school that I went to do my master's with was like the top program in the country for my colleagues engineering, and at that particular time there was a big tech company that I was targeting and I looked online and they said, like you know, this particular school really recruits this part, this company really recruits very heavily from this school. So I was like, okay, if I get into the school then I have an opportunity to get within this company and ended up working out that way. So that was really the first step in the journey.
Speaker 4:So during my undergraduate I had did an internship every single year, which was kind of like unheard of at that time. But I just said, you know, I need to get out there. If I'm, you know, a woman in this field, I got to try to get out there because it was, like I said, there weren't really a lot of opportunities at that time. So a lot of companies that I ended up working for post school were companies that I had interned with. The current. The current company that I work with now was probably like one of the first companies that I didn't have any connections, any ties, anything in regards to that and they had actually reached out to me on LinkedIn. So that was kind of out of nowhere.
Speaker 2:Wow, were those paid internships Like when you were going through that, or was that more of just like you volunteering to learn?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so that was also very unique at the time because my focus has gone into a recession career, was more so thinking of once I graduate, then I'll make money. So when I started going into tech internships, I didn't realize that they were paying engineering students all this money. So I think, like my first internship that I did. I think that was my sophomore year of college. We're following my sophomore year of college going into my junior year. My first internship paid me like $35 an hour. And at that point, in time.
Speaker 4:I had never. I didn't really, I still didn't really understand money like that, but I knew like okay, this is something.
Speaker 2:Like keep going down this road yeah.
Speaker 4:Like a few people, like you know, some of my friends that I they weren't able to get internships at that time, so like they would go back home and, like you know, do the typical college job of working at like Popeyes or working at Target or working, you know, at a convenience store. And I was saying to them, like these people are from, I'm from Darwin, and they're like I'm making minimum wage and I was like, okay, so I really didn't think anything of it. I was like I said I was really green to everything, I didn't have any real prior understanding. And that's when I like once I really started looking up and saying, okay, they'll pay a student this. Then what are they really paying, you know, for people who graduate from school? Yeah.
Speaker 4:So I kind of had an understanding of salary, but I didn't really know what that meant. Like I knew, like when I went to my masters initially, before you could apply, they sent something in the mail, like you know. You said you fill out the thing online and it's like I'm interested. Then they send something to you in the mail and it says, like you know, if you want to pick this major, this is the range of our graduates. And something that was important to me at the time is I didn't want to attend the school that didn't have at least like a 96% placement rate of students who graduate and have a job by graduation or at least within six months. So, yeah, when I, when I use their data that they provided, based off the students, that's when I started going down a rabbit hole of looking online like, honestly, the internet saved my life.
Speaker 4:I was just looking online all the time and then that's when I kind of find out how to do like a market analysis, and then that's when I really started to see like what opportunity was out there for engineers in terms of salary. So a lot of this stuff was just going online and going on Google and just at that point in time, even then people were doing really financial videos on YouTube like maybe. Yeah.
Speaker 4:But it wasn't really like a thing. So whatever was on Google was what you knew and whatever the school told you was kind of like you know your basis.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean I'll go ahead, pierce.
Speaker 3:I was just curious what resources did you use online, like any particular websites or anything like that, that you were able to find a conclusion of what you were looking for?
Speaker 4:So I think that I'm trying to think back then. It was probably like that. That's the thing is. I don't even think back then and I don't want to age myself. I don't even think back then like indeed was, indeed, was. I remember the internship that I had once I finished undergraduate. I applied to on indeed, prior to that, I think that's like what indeed was kind of just getting publicized as a website to use, not to say that that it was just created at that time, but that's when people were saying, oh, go on, indeed, you can get a job from the. But I think before then was maybe like pay scalecom or something like that, some really old website that was out there, but it was. It was really just generally Google and then whatever popped up at the time, like it wasn't, it wasn't even that. I don't remember really what it was, but I think it might have been a scale. I think that was a website.
Speaker 2:That's what's even like crazier Von, just listening to you here like explain everything. Like even just 10 years ago it was a lot more difficult to find information on the entrance.
Speaker 2:Yes of course, I would say it's even more overwhelming Like things just weren't as organized Like. Thankfully, we have platforms like Google, twitter, like Instagram, like they kind of like have these algorithms where they try to like organize the contents in a better way, based on like where you're at. But back then, like it was a lot more difficult to like find things. Like you actually had to read through lengthy articles like find the answers to things.
Speaker 2:So I mean this you know all this just like really says a lot about your not only your desire to just learn and grow as a person, but also your curiosity, like just all these traits, your grit to like push past, like all these you know. You know just society, like the societal messaging of you know, though, engineering, like why are you going to that field? Like there's just so much, like just all these forces. Like it just says a lot about, like your personality and your desire to like really learn how to get yourself situated into better situations. Like that's admirable, super inspiring. But I'm also just kind of curious like do you, how do you think? Like do you think it's easier to find that information nowadays? Like I'm sure it is, but like I guess what resources would you recommend people nowadays Like knowing what you know now?
Speaker 2:Like if you were to talk, have a conversation with your younger self, like what would you kind of tell them to look at when it comes to career planning?
Speaker 2:Or even just you know, nowadays, like the whole narrative around college is starting to come out to where you know, hey, maybe you should start to run the ROI of if you're going to take out student loans, like make sure the education you're getting is actually worth it.
Speaker 2:Like make sure there's a job at the other end of that, because, of course, like engineering, like it's an amazing skill and like you touched on it, it's such a broad skill Like there's so much you can do in just the technology field in general and eventually with where AI's go and like I could see it where, like we're all going to be in technology probably 10 years down the road, you know you're going to have to learn some sort of either just using the chat, gbt type of stuff, or just like learning basic technology skills. Like we're all going to have to learn it in one way or another because technology is engulfing the world. But I'm just curious like what would you tell your younger self now, knowing what you know? Like, hey, what resources would you would you look at? Like what, maybe even what pages would you follow, like based on what you know now, to help people kind of plan a career path for them over the next five to 10 years?
Speaker 4:Sure, so I don't have any children. But I always think from the perspective and I tweet about this often like looking at the world to my. Some of my friends have children and they're finally in their teenage, they're in their teenage groupings. So now they're starting to say to me, like what should I be saying to them about school? So, being an engineering, I consider engineering an elite profession. A lot of the people that I've met in engineering are generational engineers. Like I worked at one particular company where I had a coworker that was like, oh, I remember where his grandfather worked here. I remember when his dad worked here. Now he's working here. When I did the internship at the company, I was there with their, with their sons. So I definitely think when you're immersed in that environment, you're growing up in that environment.
Speaker 4:Education is not just a conversation that you have once you're in high school. So that's where I would start is. I've had a chance to like speak at schools and I've also had a chance to do engineering in another country, and I'll say this that by that middle school, aging is where you really start to lose a lot of people, and then I think people are going through those changes like that going from being like a little kid to trying to figure out their identity. And then, by the time you get to high school, there's all those societal pressures and peer pressure, and then people are just want to get out of school. They don't? They're having such a hard time in high school. They're not even thinking about college.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so when I had a chance to speak at school was like an elementary school, and when you walked into school they had like all these banners of different colleges and I was like you know what that's the thing is. Sometimes people feel that you have to do something that's either expensive or something that really requires a lot of effort, I'm like, whereas now we have the opportunity to just sit your kids down when they're in fifth grade and have them watch YouTube videos of you know, we have all these like day in the life of a college student and there's so much information online.
Speaker 4:So, I think that's that's where I would start, because the only way before that you wanted to do a career or not is after you took the student loan out. Now we have the information where you can really see people's journey online has been documented, from when they first applied to undergraduate, when they graduated Now, what they're doing in a professional life. But you get to see a little bit more insight into dorm life. You can see videos in regards to different college admissions process. So I definitely would say to utilize start early and utilize social media. In regards to videos, I know like a lot of people don't read, because now we're so teched out that that concentration is like terrible. It's like yeah.
Speaker 4:So that's why I'm like I believe that you have to meet people where they're at. So that's why I say, probably pushing the video. But also it's free to go to a college open house and there's no specific age grouping that you have to be to attend a college open house. So if you just start, like in middle school, just go into a few college open houses in your local area. When you go to open house you can get information on the programs. You can see things for yourself. You can speak to professors. They can give you information on some of the high school immersion programs that they have. So when your kid is in middle school, they're starting to understand.
Speaker 4:Like you know, what I do through ninth to 12th grade is really what defines my path, and I know sometimes people don't like to say that because there's a lot of narratives of you can figure out your life at any time, but I mean most people that I know. Now, looking back, you know my 30s. They're always like I wish I would have took high schools more serious. I wish I would have been more informed about college. I wish I'd have done better in undergraduates so I could get the scholarships for college. So I really think that in American culture we wait too late. When I was taking SAT prep in high school, my instructor was saying, like he teaches SAT prep to other cultures and they're starting in sixth grade, and that was you know, that was back in 2008. So it's like there's no. When we see people get perfect SAT scores, we're thinking, oh, they're just winging it kind of how we are in American culture and people are not thinking like this person has been prepared to take this test and preparing to get into school and preparing to do the best that they can in high school since sixth grade. So I think that's part of the conversation.
Speaker 4:And then I also think people have to be honest about what they're intimidated about. I know sometimes, if maybe your parent didn't go to college, they're like I don't know what to do Instead of you know, just go, even like going online and just reading you. They may not know every single piece of information, but nowadays we have so many different things to reach people at different levels of understanding. And I think when people are going into blindly you see the videos on TikTok of people crying saying that they didn't realize that their major wasn't going to pay any money Personally, I find that kind of unacceptable because I'm like in the last five years technology has completely taken off, so any information that you want to know is there and I just think sometimes people are not utilizing it, because there's a responsibility based off what kind of information you consume.
Speaker 4:And I also think people feel very intimidated by picking a harder major, because I remember when I was an undergraduate I was telling people I'm going to do engineering. They were like you're going to waste your whole college experience, like when I would go to a library. They're like you're not going to go to the party. I'm like no, this is serious. And it was just like so many people I met at the time who were just like saying and this is nothing against any other major. But they were saying like, oh, I took English because it only had one math. I took criminal justice because it really didn't have. It wasn't that challenging. I could do it in my sleep.
Speaker 4:And I was just saying to them like okay, but what do you want to do after this? So I think that's the second part of the conversation is, once people pick a major, they have to start thinking from the first day that you go to college. You have to think about what you're going to do after that. Waiting until your senior year, two months before graduation, saying what am I going to do, that's you know. That's not smart, that's not a plan. Or just graduating and not having any kind of internships or any kind of connection. I mean nowadays you can make a connection on LinkedIn. Before that was like you know that wasn't a thing.
Speaker 4:So I personally feel that we're very lazy and our approach to college and you see it, I think I seen on Twitter they were talking about people are paying $120,000 a year for college trainers and all this kind of stuff. I think that's kind of overzealous, but people are taking it serious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I completely agree because, like, even that's kind of like my general experience, like when I was going through my college experience, is, you know, I try to take a different approach where, like I'm like I'm investing money, like I'm spending thousands of dollars a year on this education, like I want to make sure I extract as much out of it as possible, but a lot of my like you know, classmates, like maybe, especially if they're like parents paid for it, like they just saw it as like a big party, and I'm like you know, whatever, like you know, cool for them, cool, cool.
Speaker 2:Like I'm not like anti having fun but at the same time, like you're like this is like an important part of our lives, like we should take it a little bit seriously, because everything we learn, like the skills that we can grasp here, like when you're going through the college and learning, or just like even if you're not going to college, like even if you're just like early on your life, like sitting there going through YouTube videos, like the earlier you start to stack these skills in your life, like the sooner, like the only, the further along you're going to get because it's going to compound. Like all those skills that you learn early on in life are only going to benefit you as you go through that first career. Like whatever job you get, it's going to help you, you know, like succeed in that skill first of all, but then also learn more stuff. And like the people, especially people at higher levels in you, like they can tell if you're actually serious, like they can see that desire, they can see that curiosity, like even in Vaughan. Like I'm sure everybody can feel it, like everybody can understand, like she is serious about her career and like the skills that she's learning. She took college seriously, she's taken her resources, like she's used every single moment of her life and used it intentionally, versus just kind of screwing it all away and saying you know whatever, just kind of like easing their way through life.
Speaker 2:Like, again, I hate to like sit here and like try to judge people but at the same time, like if you're complaining with where you're at currently in your life, it is worth like taking a step back and just kind of auditing like hey, what choices am I making now? Like am I making the most of my time? Like, am I investing? You know kind of just tying it from the investment standpoint, like every like, how are you investing your time throughout your day? Like, are you soaking in knowledge? Are you surrounding yourself around people who are at slightly higher levels than you so you can actually learn? Like I think these are.
Speaker 2:I wish they were like bigger conversations on a, you know, bigger societal level, but even just kind of tracking back to the college part. Like now I'm happy that we are having more of these discussions around like hey, is the college majors worth it? You know I'm starting to see people like just kind of approach college a little bit more differently than we have in the past, where before, even when I was going to college, you know, back in 2015, there were, you know, there was still like a big pressure of like, hey, go to school, like it was expected that you went to college, right, and it wasn't until recently where people are just like, yes, like college is important, like you know, especially if you're going to go out and try to improve your skills but at the same time, like you're not. Don't just go in and take $100,000 of student loan debt and get a degree in whale watching or whatever the hell it is. You know, like make sure there's something at the end of your degree on what you're doing. So like I think these are super important conversations and I wish you know, especially like for me, like when I was navigating the college experience, like I was the first person in my family to get a degree, so like I was confused, like I didn't really know what I was doing. Completely Luckily, I had some like career counselors and people like that at my university that helped me kind of guide me a little bit more.
Speaker 2:But nowadays, like I do agree with you, vaughn like there really is little excuse that you can use with how many different resources are on the internet today. Like there's so many free resources on YouTube, on Twitter, on even on TikTok. You know there's some good content on TikTok. I hate the shit on TikTok, but like, if you follow the right people, you can get the right content in your feed, and that's kind of what it's.
Speaker 2:That's what it comes down to is like, where do you I think a lot of it's just having that that honest conversation with yourself is like, where do I want to go in life? Like, what direction do I want to head in? And then what are you doing to surround yourself around the information or even just the network of people that will help you get there? And luckily, like I get it that not everybody has access to higher level people to help them learn in the real world.
Speaker 2:But nowadays, like you have the digital world right, like you can surround yourself around these networks of digital people without having to even pay anything, which is incredible. And I think that'll become more obvious, like maybe 10, 15 years down the road, where people start to realize like, oh, maybe there is more to this internet thing than just means of cats and you know I love the memes and I love cats and everything but you know, maybe there's more to it. You know, like, maybe we can actually learn real skills from the internet. And that kind of leads me to my next question, bon have you seen like this transition I know there's like this saying where you know you can get a job in tech without actually having a college degree Like, what's your experience been with that? Like, have you seen people be able to just get like certifications or just kind of build their own things and be able to land jobs in the tech world?
Speaker 4:So I want to be honest with you In regards to that. I did see an increase without doing COVID, but I think that that was really because a lot of companies weren't really sure what was going on. The economy was up one minute, then I mean even the market was up, and then next minute it's completely gone. And also a lot of companies were receiving the federal assistance and SBA assistance, so they had money to spend, you know. I my concern.
Speaker 4:I guess, if I can take a step back, my concern around the messaging now has nothing to do with me going to school, nothing with you going to school, nothing with the listeners going to school. My concern is with the messaging that college is not needed, there's no filler, because even if someone takes a certificate or a bootcamp and they get into tech, depending on what the market looks like, it could still be a limitation. Now, personally, because I went to school twice, I've never really ran into any job that I was applied for or interviewed for that I didn't at least offer for. So I don't know what the process looks like if somebody is just going based off of a certificate. I don't know if someone has a bachelor's degree Plus a certificate, if that's a different process or if there's just a specialized boot camp certificate. But in my current company, every person that I work with has at least a bachelor's degree. So I don't currently work with and I don't think I worked with anyone throughout my career up until this point that was hired with just a certification. But I've seen it. I've connected with people online who have.
Speaker 4:So I'm not against it, but I think the messaging, the anti-college messaging we're starting to see it unfold negatively when they I think they did like a survey with the Gen Alpha and they asked him like what do you want to be when you grow up? So, like when I was growing up, it was like you want to be a teacher, you want to be a lawyer, you want to be a doctor, you know, like that was a standard thing, and I think their careers were like I want to be an influencer, youtube star, something like that. And I'm like people don't realize and that's why I say I don't think millennials sometimes understand, as a group, who we are, because we still see ourselves as really young kids. And I'm like we have to realize that when we go online and we express our frustration with the college process just like you said when you went to school in 2015, you received a message and like go to school, that's what you do. So we get online and we say colleges are scan. Now they're like well, we're not going to do that, so we're just going to do YouTube and all this other stuff.
Speaker 4:But I'm like that's not sustainable. So it challenges me because I understand both sides, but I'm always wondering what does that look like? Because you have AI taking jobs away. We also have AI creating new jobs, but in order to do those jobs you're going to have to have some type of training and I don't think initially that they're going to give those opportunities to people who don't have education. I think Tech in general is a very snobby field, so when I did start to see people getting their own certification, I was really happy for them, because I remember one time I did an internship and I was the only person in the group that had a master's. I was in a master's program. Everybody else was PhDs and initially they were really mad about that because it was a startup company and at that point in time people saw prestige in their educations of they were a PhD group.
Speaker 4:They didn't want master's people. So now it's kind of like we went from that to basically throw your degree in the garbage is worthless, type of thing, and I'm like I don't know. There's so many different ways that the messaging can go. But I read about literacy rates. I read about some of I think the uptick in school shootings and all those things that are happening is because the kids really don't have any direction.
Speaker 4:I think for Maliyah's, going to college and moving forward after college was our template. We had that template of a direction that you follow through in life and now we've given Gen Z and Gen Alpha pretty much no direction because we're like anti every single thing that we were told and they're just like they're completely out of whack and crazy because they don't know what to do, and you see it in the schools now. So I read a lot about the curriculum being condensed and things being pulled out and I was like as a society, how does how is this going to work? We're completely anti college and people. I don't think that most of our society is going to transition from anti college to trades. I think a lot of time when people say, oh, you can just do a trade. I'm like most people do not like getting dirty.
Speaker 2:We're in a we're living in a time most people don't most people don't even like leaving their house.
Speaker 4:I'm like most people don't even like leaving their house. So that's, that's a time limit. So I can't imagine. I mean, the numbers are just not there to support that. That is the alternative. So I'm like what is the alternative? Because if there's no college, then that leads to people saying, well then I don't need high school because I, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do. Do you think like a lot of this is just like the advanced, like just how fast the world's changing with technology? That you know I follow Naval Naval's an awesome page to follow, but he's basically one of his like philosophies is that like institutions, especially like universities, like it's, it's getting harder for them to keep up with, like the curriculum, like actually teaching the right curriculum to allow people to have the skill sets that's needed to operate or even work in a modern business. Because a lot of like you know, one of the big skepticisms about college right now is that a lot of the information is just kind of outdated. But I will completely agree with you, bond, that I do think.
Speaker 2:You know, I think society, like what we do, is like we can only go like one extreme or the other. It's like right now. You know, maybe 10 years ago we were kind of in the extreme of like college is great, you must go to college, you're going to be a failure. And now we're kind of ebbing back to that other side of like colleges complete waste of time, don't go to college, it's just a complete waste of money. And of course the answer is likely somewhere in the middle where there's still value in college, like even just learning basic critical thinking skills or just learning how to learn in general. Like one of the biggest skills that I learned in college was how to learn, like sitting there taking the time to think through things and actually read, because it's hard to actually want to like unless, like you're an exception where you're just like this, this person that grows up just like constantly wanting to learn, like a lot of people aren't. So the school environment kind of helps teach you how to learn, which is which is definitely a positive side of it.
Speaker 2:But I do kind of fear, like I completely agree that I do think we kind of are going more towards the direction of just like demonizing school, but of course, like there's still some like valid criticisms of you know, is these are these institutions adapting fast enough for how fast the world's changing? And, of course, like I think the problem with that is, like, while we're kind of having this discussion, like while the millennials are even just like the older generations, like as they have these debates of like if it is worth it or not, we are kind of confusing the younger generations or just younger people because, like half the people are saying, yes, go to college. The other half is like, no, it's a complete waste of time. You could just quickly learn a skill on YouTube and you'll be able to get into any tech company, because there's just like this romanticized story of, like, that's how it works.
Speaker 2:But it's great to have this conversation with you, bob, because you're able to just bring some information like in the reality side of things. And, pierce, maybe you can like chime in on this Like is this something you've experienced? I know you know you're not like yeah, I love to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 3:So I didn't take high school pretty seriously, probably up until my sophomore year. I kind of just, you know freshman year, just kind of pissing off doing my own thing. And then I started taking it a bit seriously and I graduated with like a three, six and currently in school right now. But for those people who didn't take those things seriously, like I didn't, high school was just fun for me. I was never a partier, but I just didn't like to show up for class all the time. And so for those people who didn't take school seriously this is a question directed at both of you guys Is there what, what, what suggestions do you guys have for these people to get on track, to get on course, to maybe hop in school? You know what's a start and you know where do you start and where do you finish. So whoever would like to take that question first maybe Vaughn, if you could answer that, I'm super interested.
Speaker 4:Okay. So I think that question is kind of multi dimensional because there's two. There's two sides, two clear sides to me. So the first one is if you didn't take school seriously but you didn't also compound that with other bad choices. And then the other side of that is if you didn't take school seriously but then you compounded it with a series of bad choices. So most people at least people that I know they kind of play around in high school.
Speaker 4:The particular high school that I went to only had like a 42% graduation rate at the time. So I know a lot of people who dropped out of school. They need to help their parents. They needed to. Oh, they just decided they were going to work. I think when I had graduated high school, my year had like the highest graduation. I think we had like 85%, which was like crazy, and my valedictorian at the time she had went to Dartmouth and it was like we were in the newspaper and everything because we had never had like in a long time that high of a graduation rate. So most of the people when I graduated in high school took school seriously.
Speaker 4:My core friend group like every single person that's in my friend group has at least a master's degree. They're all working professionals, so in that sense they were kind of able, even though they didn't start off maybe in the best environment of schooling. They didn't compound that with additional mistakes once they got to school, like they took college very seriously. So I also have people on the other side who went to school but then they were just partying all the time and their parents said like I'm not going to pay for that. So you got to come home and some of those people I speak with on like every week or something like that, and they're always telling me like they wish that they didn't do that, because now we're in our 30s and it's like 40 staring at you, but now you have to.
Speaker 4:In some people's mind they feel like now I have to go backwards and I have to go back to school and I have to do another three years or another four years because I'm going to change my major, then I have to go through the internship role, then I have to get an entry level role. So I know some people who really didn't take it seriously and they're panicking because they're like OK, I'm 30 now and by the time I've finished doing what I need to do. I'm going to be 35 or 36. And I'm just going to be entry level at that time, and then you know. Of course, we don't know what's going to happen with AI, so people are just really panicking right now.
Speaker 4:So the advice that I would give to people is if you're not going to take high school seriously, once you get out of high school, you have to take the life that starts then seriously. You can't do both, because it's going to take much more effort to dig yourself out of whatever holds you have or you have created in your life on top of not having education. Now we can say which degrees are better and what you know, which way in life is better, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4:But there's tons of data that shows if you go to college, I think you have an opportunity to earn like two million more dollars than someone who had just graduated from high school and I think, because of influencer culture and you know the online culture that's came since the pandemic and people see, like some people who didn't go to college to drive in G wagons and they travel across the world. They think, oh, that's possible for everyone.
Speaker 2:And I'm not. You see the extremes yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm not here to put limitations on anyone, but the average person that I know in New York who didn't graduate from college or dropped out of college, like the people that went to high school and this is not against anybody, but they're working at, like, targ, you know, they're working at Marshals and they're 32, 35. And they're kind of like. I don't know, I don't know what to do, and some of them have children now and they're like I don't know where I'm going to find the time to go back to school.
Speaker 3:And I just think school is good for some people.
Speaker 4:Yeah Well, so I do have one friend who did go back to school recently to do her RN and she had a child of 16 years old and then during the pandemic she told me she was going to go back to school and do her GED and then get in school to do our RN. And she did it and she got honors all the way through. So she was my one friend that had into school. So in her case she got motivated and she always felt like, oh, I'm still behind because you guys are so much further ahead and I'm totally like you're 30 now and you just finished your RN, so now you're really where everyone else is, you're not. That it's about catching up, but I do think going back to school can be worth it. But I think a lot of people get intimidated.
Speaker 2:She has two children, so sometimes people get intimidated when they have children and then they have a husband or wife or other responsibilities, like being older, going to college, like people, there's a stigma of like, oh, you know, you just feel like everybody's judging you but in reality, like just a little context, Like a lot of the people who listen to this podcast, like they're in the 25 to 35 age group. So I'm sure there's a lot of people who can resonate, like maybe they are in that situation of like hey, I'm 34, 32,. Like maybe I didn't take my 20s as seriously as I wish I did, you know, and like maybe you don't have advice because, like I know, we're all learning as we're going through life ourselves. But do you have any advice to? Maybe like the 32 year old, the 33 year old who is sitting here, like they're just, they have the desire, like they want to better the trajectory of their life right now, but maybe they feel a little overwhelmed with, like all these different messaging that is coming at them. I'm not sure if you've helped anybody like that or if you would have any advice to them, because, again, we're all at different points in our life, but I'm sure a lot of people fall into that category. With the messages that I get on Instagram this is a constant thing where people are just like, hey, what do I do? Like I'm tired of working this dead end job. Like I kind of want to set myself up on a better trajectory.
Speaker 2:Like I'm under the philosophy that you know, yes, it's ideal to set yourself up as early as possible in your 20s or even earlier. Like, if you can, if you can get to that point, but, of course, like we all have different paths of life, like even things that might be out of your control. Like you have a family dynamic that is just not ideal. Like there's a lot of toxicity toxicity and you have no like role models. And then maybe it's not until you're in your 30s that you start to like get your shit together and be willing to learn, have you like?
Speaker 2:Do you have any advice to those people who are maybe in that like early 30s that want to learn? They have the desire to learn. Maybe they do feel a little intimidated, you know. Maybe they it's hard for them to take one step back. Maybe they do have to take a step back to get to that entry level job, but that has a better trajectory. I'm not sure if you've seen any of that like your line of work, but I'm curious to get your thoughts around that.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I think there's 2 main things there. I think the first part is stop comparing, because a lot of people feel, you know, intimidated. I think people are judging them because they're comparing themselves to someone else's maybe a little bit further ahead to them. So stop comparing. And the number 2, take ownership, because there are variables. Even if you're in a situation in life that you're not in love with, there are various variables that you can work with. So it doesn't necessarily have to be that someone goes to 4 year university. There's a lot of programs at a 2 year university like, I think, radiology tech, surgical tech. These are starting out careers, I think that pay like at least 60 to $70,000 in after 2 years of school. Am I local area, like in New York? We have both seas.
Speaker 4:I don't know if you guys have that where you are, but you can get like trade training at both seas, so you can become an LPN or you can become an electrician or you become a plumber, and they're very affordable and they're in a lot of different areas, so you can go that route as well. But I think the main thing is that people are always watching someone else and I think in my journey maybe that was my blessing, because I didn't have anyone else, was always used to be that I never watched anyone else, like even now. Like you know, there's tons of people I connect with online who have already hit that million dollar net worth by this point early in their 30s, and it's like I could be viewing that so many different ways. Most people view it as like a negative thing, like, oh, they're heading either this or that, whereas for me, I'm always like, okay, I'm not that far from that, but I want to make sure that I'm learning from them, I'm connecting with them.
Speaker 4:There's some type of Twitter space that's happening. I want to join it. If they recommend a book to me, I'm going to read it, and I think people just have to be open. But also utilizing social media. Like you said, the digital world is being created. That is your best bet. We're not just limited to our local environment anymore, and I think allowing yourself to be limited to your local environment is a choice, and we don't have to be. If you want to learn the way that millionaires think and how they act and where they go, we can do that. Yeah.
Speaker 4:If you want to see how people are living in a different country and you decide that you go to a different country and live and do a job over there, that's a possibility. I think our you know Twitter. I'm always saying, like our mindset, I've never had the mindset of I can't do this. I've never had the mindset of I'm intimidated by this. I always just felt I may not have all the information, but I can learn it. I may not know exactly who I need to connect with, but I'll just search online until I find something and then I'll use that to get to the next step.
Speaker 4:So, I just tried to have a positive mindset.
Speaker 4:I know that people get really hard on themselves, but yeah one thing I live by is Every way that you go, you are there. So if you beat yourself up every single place that you go, you're bringing that energy with yourself. So I believe that you have to treat your. You have to even if you're not feeling the best about where you are in life, even if you're not feeling, even if you realize you made terrible money mistakes, you made terrible life. You know life choices. You can change that if you say to yourself OK, I can't do that anymore. This is what I'm going to try to do and I I also think Sometimes people want to.
Speaker 4:Okay, so I write on Twitter sometimes. I think the other day I said from 18 to 40 is 22 years. So if you're meeting someone at 35 and they've been committed since 18, they've been committed for 17 years consistently. So you can't say, oh, this person at 35 is here, why am I not there? You're not there because you haven't been committed for 17 years and the way that they are. But people don't understand that. You know they're like oh, this person is my age and they're doing this and I'm doing this. Where did I go wrong? And the thing is, it's not necessarily that you went wrong, but you can't compare somebody who's were day in and day out and job hop and went over here and do all that and say we should have the same result, and I think sometimes that's my issue with social media is that people may not understand the specific details to where someone is.
Speaker 4:And they'll say if someone says, oh, I have a million dollars invested, they're like, of course you do because you have this job, or of course you do because you have this friend. And it's like I'll say from my own experience, if I didn't have any discipline financially, I would be blowing the money right now because I don't know anyone who's really financially stable. I don't really know anyone who has a high level of understanding of financial literacy. And I'm a single person, I'm having children. So I would be blowing the money right now if I didn't have, if I didn't say to myself I'm not going to do that to get in control.
Speaker 4:And I think people, you have to allow yourself to be a student of life. I'm very hard on myself, but at the end of the day, I'm always like I'm a student of life. I don't know. I'm going to be turning 32 soon and I'm really excited about that because it's a new age. I've never been turned 32 before and it's a new year to learn. I don't ever want to be an expert at anything. I want to have the mindset to continue to learn and I think that's what people have to do.
Speaker 4:If you're in your 30s your early 30s, mid 30s, late 30s, and you realize, hey, I went wrong. You have so much information from high school until that age group that you can pick from and say, okay, I realized I did that wrong, so let me not do this. Oh, I did that great. And when I was 27, let me go back to that. There was this thing in high school that really interests me. I'm sure there's more information about it online right now. I think sometimes when people are unhappy with their life, they just throw every single thing that's happened before them away and consider it useless. And I'm like don't do that, because you have to learn, it's dangerous.
Speaker 4:Where you went wrong is every mistake that I've made in my life has been the thing that's propelled me forward. So I don't view my mistakes. I'm hard on myself, but I don't view my mistakes as a negative because I'm like okay, this happened because I need to learn something. Let me sit down with myself and think about what that is where I went wrong, what I can do better, and now that I'm at the next level, I have this information and I'm not going to repeat that again.
Speaker 4:So I just think that's what we have to start doing in our 30s is not repeating the same thing that we know doesn't give us a positive result.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, no, that's powerful stuff right there.
Speaker 2:And to me, just kind of listening to you explain all of this Vaughn, to me it sounds like I mean, for one thing, as you go throughout this journey of improving your skills, sharpening your skills, like learning, you start to build that internal self-esteem.
Speaker 2:So now you're at the point where you're like I have the living proof of, I have the experience of being able to push past hurdles and to get into uncomfortable situations and still thrive and learn and absorb the knowledge, which is huge because you're building that internal self-esteem in yourself. And this is something I've kind of realized is a lot of people who are maybe in their early 30s, mid 30s. One thing I see them struggle with is like, if they don't have that track record, like maybe they just haven't gone through that initial journey of like getting serious with what they want out of life, it's hard for them to commit to these like longer term things because they just don't have that. They're very part of themselves because they have a very low self-esteem, because they haven't had any real experience of transitioning in one way or another. So I'm not sure if that's something you've noticed where it kind of does kind of boil down from that self-esteem and not to kind of build an excuse for people.
Speaker 4:Like. Of course, the answer to that is like. I think I completely understand it because, in addition to being like the only person in engineering like, I'm also six feet tall, which a lot of people don't know, and I've been six feet tall since the seventh grade, so that's I've always been tall my whole life. But I think during that point in time, like middle school is terrible, people are horrible. And.
Speaker 4:I've had a lot of situations in my life where, you know, like a period of time when I took a little bit more awkward and it was kind of like you know, I was good at school and I played sports growing up, so that kind of gave me friends, but I always felt like I'm very different from a lot of people. And then I have a sister and she's like this social dynamic person. She's a beauty queen, she's like everyone knows her, they love her, and then for a long time it was kind of like there's just me, right. And I think that there was a period in time when I was younger I was going to that like social self-esteem thing and trying to figure out like I know I'm smart, is that all there there is with me, like who am I? Is her person, where am I going to take this? Where am I going to go in life? So for a long time where I was figuring out the self-esteem part, I was really focusing on hitting the books because I felt like I'm good at this, so I'm going to stick with this until I figure everything else out. So that's why I say you may not you don't have to 100% be in a good place with yourself. To accomplish things, you have to, whatever your thing is, run with that and then figure out the other stuff about your identity and who you are along the way.
Speaker 4:I personally feel if you don't have self-esteem, it's going to ruin all your chances. Because I know so many people who have the gift of gab and they show you know, they show up looking nice, but they have no education and they can get in a room with anyone because they have the confidence and they have the self-esteem. And I know people who have all the accomplishments and you know they're beating themselves down and their self-esteem is in the toilet, but they should be able to walk into any room and they're like the best person in the room, but they don't see themselves like that. So I definitely think, like I said before, that was something that really boosted my self-esteem was once I started saying to myself everywhere you go, you're there, so you can't hate yourself, because every single place you go, you are there and you're going to teach people how to treat you. If I was walking around down the dumps every place that I went, you know other people are going to be with me that way.
Speaker 4:So that's why I tweet a lot on Twitter Like it's a good day to work on your confidence because I realize if we can go like you know, like a little bit financial. I don't spend money on things to impress anybody because I'm 100% confident in myself. I love who I am. I would never want to be someone else. I would never want to put myself in a bad financial situation to get validation or to fit in with any particular group of people or to do something online to get views or likes or something like that. Like honestly, I go back and forth about deleting my Twitter sometimes, but it's definitely social media.
Speaker 4:I really see how not having confidence is making people go left. And then when you start looking up the numbers, like the suicides and the thing like it's rising each year I think last year was like the highest ever and I'm like people are in a really bad place with themselves. And then I started having these conversations with people online and they're like oh, when I see this particular person buying a house at 30 and I don't have a house I feel it completely tanks myself a scene. Or when I told her last year like investing $75,000 for the year, I got a lot of support.
Speaker 4:There was people who DMed me like that made them feel terrible because they're older than we and they don't even have 75,000 invested in account, since they've been working since 18 years old and they're struggling with their financial confidence and also struggling with the identity outside of that, because outside of the money, maybe they don't physically look how they want to at their particular age, or just some of the like you talked about earlier, some of the family dynamic situations that they're in. So in these days and times, society is way more cutthroat and people care so much about what you look and what you have that if you don't have your confidence and your self-esteem, you're going to be feeling that every day.
Speaker 4:So that's what I always say before people touch money or do anything, get yourself in a good place.
Speaker 4:Because a lot of the mistakes that we make with money or even personally are because we're not solid in who we are and what we feel about ourselves and we're looking for that extra validation, either through buying something to feel better or buying something so people will think that we're cool or more important or something like that.
Speaker 4:And it really is. And, like I said, I say that as somebody who my younger years went through that whole self-esteem thing, not necessarily because I didn't like myself, but because a lot of the messaging of me wanting to channel excellence like that's always been something that I was really focused on from young was really like being the best against myself. And people didn't really understand that because it was like no, you have to compete against this person, you have to give this, give that person. I was like no, I just need to be the best against myself. So sometimes I got mixed reactions from people in regards to that and you know, at that point in time everybody kind of thought the same, acted the same and they were like what the hell are you talking about? And some of those comments were things that kind of pushed my self-esteem down at that time.
Speaker 4:But, I think once I just started taking ownership of my identity, who I am, who I want to be, once I had those conversations with myself. From what through that? Like there's nothing that anyone can say I do to me at this point in time, so and that has nothing to do with money, and I think that's the best way to build your self-esteem and confidence is without money. If you try to build your self-esteem and confidence with money, you're going to be in trouble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's one of the huge issues that we see with like all the overspending, with credit card debts, with people spending more money than they're making. Like that's one of the biggest financial hurdles, or just issues. People have A lot of that boils down to these self-esteem issues, where they're using money to build this lifestyle, to project this lifestyle on social media Instagram, twitter, whatever it is. They want to project that because they have these deeper issues in themselves that they haven't resolved. And you know, of course you could sit here and be like how do we resolve that? Like it really is an internal game, which is the most important game that will ever be, and that's why it's only fair. Like the only comparison that you should ever make when it comes to any sort of progress is in yourself, because as soon as you start pointing fingers or moving your attention to somebody else and using them as a guideline, it's game over, because they are living a completely different life, they have completely different experiences. Like of course, it's fine to want to go and try to learn from other people who are ahead of you and kind of see how they went about things, but as soon as you start like hey, I need to be at this level at this age because they were at it. Like it's not even a fair comparison. Like, think about that for a second. Like, stop and think about that. If you start to sit here and break down like, hey, I have to be at this point at this age because that person was in it, you don't even like, you have no. Like everybody has a different life. So, like, do you want their exact life experience? Like, do you even the first off? Even if you want the external life experience, you don't know the internal life experience of that person. So there's that point of view. But at the same point, like the only progress that you should ever care about is your own progress. Like, how are you better than you were the day before? Like that's something I say often because it's the only guideline or post that you should use as a, as a mark of progress, because it's the only fair mark of progress to use. Like even von.
Speaker 2:Like kind of what you were touching earlier with the investing 75,000, like somebody who's brand new to investing and maybe they don't understand that. You know, getting to that level takes time because you have to go through those initial levels of understand research, of doing your homework. Like Bob didn't just like magically start investing lots of money, like she took the time to do this research, to learn, to get to that point. But even then, like she grew she's. She's spent decade, like over a decade, like even decades, learning this, the skill, like sharpening her skills, taking her education serious. So it's not like she just got to that point magically by finding some random tech company that just let her in for the hell of it. Like she's.
Speaker 2:Like you've gone through this journey, this massive journey. You've invested your time for decades to get to this point, to actually get to that milestone where you can invest any $5,000. So for somebody who's like maybe 31, they're like, hey, you know, maybe I haven't taken it as seriously. And if they start comparing themselves to you and like maybe they haven't done that journey, like they haven't gone on the educational journey, so it's a fair comparison because first of all, yes, she is further along than you, but at the same time, like, just focus on your own journey because if you start investing and maybe, like maybe you can invest like $5,000. Like that's your first milestone is investing $5,000 in a year. Like that's huge progress in your own life.
Speaker 2:But if you start to get down on yourself because you're not reaching the milestones that other people are making, like it's just it's kind of the definition of insanity, like truthfully, because if you take a step back, like it doesn't even have anything to do with you First of all and you got to be proud of the progress you're making with where you're at.
Speaker 2:Like of course, we all wish we can go back and make different decisions, like I wish I could make different decisions, but we got to work with what the cars we have right now and work where we're at in life right now. And the minute you start to detract from that and just start looking elsewhere is when things start to go downhill. That's what I've noticed in my own life, like whenever I get off track and start paying attention to other things, it's just the progress slows down in my own life. So like the only time progress has ever really started to like move forward with my own life is when I pay attention on my own situation and my own progress. And I'm sure Bonnie can attest to that, and even Pierce as well.
Speaker 3:I mean I think growing up in South Orange County, you know, you're, you see a lot of things. I mean you see, you see 17 year old kids driving $3 million cars.
Speaker 4:I don't know what to say.
Speaker 3:I mean, you see, $4 million houses on the regular. I mean that's an average neighborhood in some South of the county or cities and stuff like that. And my dad's always growing up telling me that comparisons a thief of joy and I think it really is. Like you know, I'm very blessed in my life with, with everything I have. But you know, I think it's a it's a compounding effect for, you know, having having the confidence and the self esteem you know you have to like. You know we had a podcast, couple of episodes to go on how you know compound interest and stuff like that. But I also think it ties into your decisions and everything that you make. It's a compounding effect If you make one good decision, it's easier to make a second good decision, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3:And so I think it's you know, the you know, comparison is just one of those things that, if you continue to do, you'll never be happy with where you're at. And so it's like, you know, take a step back and, just, you know, enjoy what you have, enjoy the moment and say, ok, well, how can I make myself better? You know, I recently had an Instagram post on my personal pages. Like you know, my New Year's resolution was I was going to be better than who I was last year. It's like I'm not going to be better on who my dad was at 21 or who my brother was at 21. No, I do better who I who than who I was last year, because my only competition in life is myself, you know, on who I can become.
Speaker 2:And agree more. Yeah, I mean yeah, no. Vaughn, first off, I just greatly appreciate you for coming on here and sharing your journey, being super transparent and being willing to help our audience Hopefully perceive things just from a new angle, because I again I love the content you're constantly putting out there on Twitter, especially like the career content, like helping people kind of get a better idea of making better decisions when it comes to adapting to this world that is just growing rapidly and changing insanely fast with, like AI and all that stuff. So kudos to you for everything you're doing on Twitter. I guess the one question I have just kind of the last question what's one thing that you would tell a younger version of yourself let's say you actually sat down with your 18 year old self like everything you know now like what would you? What's like one piece of advice that you would hopefully give them that would help your younger self just skyrocket past the levels that you had to go through with a more struggle.
Speaker 4:I have to. I want to be honest with you about this and I don't want this to come off arrogant, but I really would like to say sorry to the 18 year old self version of me, because I was pushing her so hard at the time and I think now, looking back at the journey, there were so many things that I was focusing on and pushing myself on that, in the grand scheme of things, didn't really matter the plan that I have right now. You know, when I first went to college that was why I went to college, because I ultimately want to buy a house I moved a lot when I was younger and I was always like I want a house. So I figured everyone else I know has a house went to college. So I'm going to go to college and I'm going to do this job, because I think I do that job and I can get a house. So I had a plan from 18 to 30. This is what I was going to do to get a house and, honestly, I held myself because I plan 100% which was really crazy during that time to make that happen and I got a house at 27. And you know, getting a house, getting a house in New York is like crazy.
Speaker 4:So when I told people like I'm going to buy a house, they were like what the hell are you talking about? And I was like no, I'm going to do it by myself. They're like what? So that journey of you know, learning how to job hop, learning how to negotiate a sale, learning how to save, learning how to you know, just not spend recklessly like doing all those things I was really early in my career or really late in my student journey was kind of crazy, doing it with no guidance, and I was like 100% intensity. And that's why I always say don't compare yourself, because a lot of times you see things online and you don't know what that person's intensity is like. And I'm one of those people when I'm serious like even like I said last year when I said I was going to invest $25,000 for the year people would tell me like that's a good goal and I told them like no, this is happening, this is not a goal. This is how you know.
Speaker 2:Like it's a reality.
Speaker 4:If I put that out there, that's happening and that's just who I am as a person. So, even though this year having to go for $100,000, people were kind of like are you sure I'm like? Listen, I don't put anything out there that I'm not sure about.
Speaker 4:So, I think during that time from then to now, I really really hard on myself. I pushed myself, I barely slept. I was in the library all the time and I also played a sport in college. So I was like going crazy with that. And then I was focused on graduate school and then I really didn't know anyone at the time that I went to graduate school. So I was thinking like the only way you get into graduate school is if you have a 4.0.
Speaker 4:So from my undergraduate engineering program I graduated the top student in my class because I was like going psycho, crazy, like if I don't get in graduate school, then I'm not going to be able to get a house and my life is going to be over. Like I was just going so crazy with myself at that time and I think if I would have taken a little step back, I think I still would have got the same result. So that's why I say I don't think that there's anything that I would take to myself to do differently, because when I look back at the lack of information I had at the time and just going off raw energy, I'm like really impressed with my younger self. And that's why I said.
Speaker 4:I don't want that to sound arrogant. So if I had to say anything to her I would say thank you and I'm sorry for making you be like a maniac about everything, but I don't necessarily. I don't really think that there's anything that I would have done differently, because I'm like I was very meticulous. I still am very meticulous and I'm not one of those people I don't really say that I have goals, Like I struggle with that word. It's like once I decide that needs to be done, it's getting done.
Speaker 4:So during my journey, like once I say like you know, I am not gonna drink at college, I'm not gonna try drugs at college, I'm just gonna go to the library all the time After I practice, I'm just gonna go to the library.
Speaker 4:I'm going to do internships every year. I'm also gonna fulfill my sports requirement and do internships at the same time, which is like really crazy. And then I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go to the school because they have a direct connection with this company that I'm really interested in. I know if I work at that company, they're gonna pay me enough so that I can start saving to get my house. And then from there, just every single thing was really planned out, sought out and I gave myself like zero requirements to fail. So I definitely owe myself an apology and that's part of the reason why I'm like I have to retire by 40, because I had pushed myself so hard in the early years that I don't personally don't know if I'm gonna have the brainpower to work past 40 without taking some type of break, because even now, like in the things that I'm doing, I'm like I was really going crazy.
Speaker 4:So I need you know I'm like okay, I think I can push to 40 and then I need to take some kind of break, because it was really intense and all the emotions of the journey and feeling like I can't fail because if I fail I'm gonna be working at Target. You know like I'm not saying that anything gets anybody who is, but that was just never the vision that I have for my life and I always had really big goals. So I'm like, if I put it out there, I don't want somebody to be like, because when I went to school there was a lot of people like, oh, I'm gonna be pre-med, I'm gonna be pre-med. And then once they started taking the classes, they were kind of like oh no, so you know, putting engineering out there.
Speaker 4:People were kind of like you're gonna take calculus and you're gonna take physics and you're gonna do thermodynamics and you're gonna do all these classes. And I was kind of like, yeah, I'm just good, Whatever I need to do, I'm gonna do it because I need to get a house. So it was just a really crazy time and it wasn't like a lot of support back then for women trying to get into that. And then, like I said, I played a sport. So people have this perspective of like the dumb jock. So when I was really serious about school, I kind of got a little bit of a pushback about that, Because they're like that's not usual. And then it was kind of like you put your time in school, it was a sport, and you know just unnecessary stuff that just had me on tent all the time.
Speaker 4:So I really just want to apologize.
Speaker 2:No that's.
Speaker 4:It's about younger self.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's first off. It's incredible because to me it just shows that you, you built that confidence in yourself because when you committed to something you stuck to it. And I think that's what a lot of people struggle with is like they commit to something but then when it gets hard they kind of just back off it. And maybe that's something like with playing sports, like that kind of helped build that discipline in yourself, that self-discipline, or even just seeing other people's situations and kind of using that as like hey, I don't want to end up here. So like what do I need to do to not end up in that situation? I think that's like incredible internal motivation which it seems like it has paid off significantly in your own life.
Speaker 2:But I just kind of a quick follow-up question have you noticed yourself like in your 30s like, do you have like a better balance, maybe what's even your ideology around balance? Do you believe in balance? Like I'm curious to just hear your thoughts around that in. You know, do you enjoy more of what you work or are you still like just on that mission for early retirement and then you're going to focus more on the enjoyment part of life?
Speaker 4:No. So I'm going to be honest with you. I think I went in a complete other direction, because I've actually taken off work before just because I needed to just watch a movie and light a candle. So my younger version of myself would have never did that. Yeah, I'd have been like no, I can't do that. I have to do this today. This needs to happen. So that's something that I wanted to say earlier when we were talking about what can people do if they may have not taken their younger years serious, and they're trying to get serious now.
Speaker 4:For me, I always felt like I don't want to be on that grind journey forever. When you're young, you have so much more energy. You're like a sponge to everything. So you're just like OK, I can do this right now. At least in my mind. I was like I can do this right now, but I'm not going to be doing this when I'm older. That was my thing. So now that I'm older, I guess I'm like now it's really about strategy.
Speaker 4:I don't believe in necessarily working hard Right now. It's about working smart. I've already worked hard. I know that if I continue to be an engineer for the rest of my life, I'll make six figures. That's pretty much a guarantee. I'll probably always work out a job that has a bonus. I'll probably always work for a job that gives stock, because that's just the way that the industry is set up, unless AI comes and they completely change the way that tech companies do offer.
Speaker 4:I at least know that, at least within the next eight years that I plan to work, that if I want to get another job, that I probably could get another job that will pay me more than what I'm making now or something similar. And at least as long as I show up and do what I need to do, I have a lot of very unique and specific skills that I'll get paid for. And if I need to do additional certification or go to some type of training, if I need to do that, I can. So I don't feel limited. But everything for me right now is about strategy.
Speaker 4:I can't do like I said, because I did all those crazy hours of studying and all the research online for hours and all that kind of stuff was mostly because I couldn't live with the reality of if it didn't work out. I always knew what I really wanted for my life and I knew that on the other side of not working out. That's not the life I wanted for me, so that was never my option and that was really my feeling, like I can't handle what it looks like if it doesn't work out. So, like I said, I bought a house for 27. Right now I live in like kind of like an upper middle class neighborhood, like a very residential area. I was and I only I really got into this area because the pandemic happened.
Speaker 4:It needed a full renovation and I was like I saved enough money, I'm going to do it. So I did the full way, the wholeads donations. So it separated the lawn. So again, it's, it's not, it's a goodness. Everything else is gone. It's that'D be an advertisement. It's also an advertisement. Have you been clicked on at all laughter? You know, the last thing I say about doing is my way of doing this. You know, creating a space for the home. So, like I've been constantly doing different things, I haven't really been in the ему and all the time I've been caring about it. I'm like, okay, I know.
Speaker 4:I can always have a high salary. If I need to scale back, it's just me. I'm a single person and that's why I say like right now I'm investing, I think like 70, 75%, 10 months more, but I think of my salary because, because, like when I first graduated, I was living in an apartment and then between the apartment to my house expenses is only like additional 20%, $1200 a month. So investing $10,000 a month right now for me is like I don't even think about it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so it's, yes, it's just you know it's like whatever is goes away and it doesn't really impact my lifestyle because I've never inflated my lifestyle so much, but I definitely do. Quick question Sorry, just to throw out a quick question, bond.
Speaker 2:Do you notice a lot of that lifestyle inflation with, like some of your coworkers? You know I've. You know a lot of engineers have reached out to me like they kind of think they're like above the money management part of things. Like they, you know, yes, I'm going to get a little arrogant and I'm just like you know, I get it.
Speaker 2:You know you make a lot of money, but at the same time, like there's still things you have to learn. Like you kind of have to go back to the fundamentals of like money management and investing. You can't skip those initial steps, just like even in engineering, like to get to the point of where you're at, like you couldn't skip those initial steps. So like you're trying to go into another domain and skip the intro entry levels and you know that's just like doesn't work that way. So I'm curious like have you kind of noticed a lot of that with like amongst your, maybe your coworkers or just the industry in general? Yeah, so that's what I was saying earlier.
Speaker 4:If I didn't have any kind of finance understanding I would be throwing the money away because, like I said, for me to invest $10,000 and not see the money and I still can do every single thing else that I want to do. I never even blink or worry about anything. If I had that extra $10,000 a month, I don't know who I would be and what I'd be doing, but it probably wouldn't be anything good. So I've seen coworkers by really lavish things and one coworker took $100,000 out of his 401k to get a custom boat and I've seen so many, so many crazy things.
Speaker 4:So many crazy things that people have just done because they feel like they're always going to make money. So now we're seeing tech layoffs and I think I had got. I had got the job that I have now during COVID, where budgets were a lot higher.
Speaker 4:We were looking for people with more unique skills, so they were willing to pay for that. So that's why I put the money away, because I know, okay, if I went to get laid off, I don't want to be like, oh my God, I don't know what I'm going to do If I had to take a job that maybe paid a little less or something like that. And I think that that is what a lot of you see, like the outcry right now happening from tech professionals, because it was so good. They never thought that it was going to, that they were going to lose their job. So they just spend, spend, spend, spend, spend, spend.
Speaker 4:Because I mean, I know people who are working in tech making like $30,000 a month, wow, you know. And when you lose that, it's like if you want to save it, if you weren't investing, you weren't. You know, some people are doing like entrepreneurs. Some people are quitting 100% and going to entrepreneurs. If you don't have a backup plan now, you're pretty much homeless because you're going to lose everything, unless you can go with your parents or, you know, everyone doesn't have that option, so I don't take it for granted.
Speaker 4:Like I said, I love where I live. I don't live like in a super huge, like I don't live in the million dollar house plus that I probably can afford now, but I enjoy my house, I love it and I just fix it up and renovate it as I go and make it the way that I want it to be and I'm very happy in my life. Everything that I have in my life is really what I wanted. I don't feel like I have to go get something super fancy to prove something or I don't have to go to work and, you know, fill off too much so that people so I can be included in certain conversations, because there was a lot of times and I'm like they're good when they would say certain things that they took their money out of their 401k to spend on like they're going to regret that. Yeah.
Speaker 4:They're going to wish they didn't do that. So, yeah, being disciplined is not hard for me because I do live a very fruitful life, but I think that's also because I'm very grateful for every single thing that I have in my life right now, and I think overspending my money and throwing it away is like it's just puts a negative energy on all the positive things that I've really been blessed with.
Speaker 2:Of course, yeah, no, that's powerful stuff right there and hopefully people like you know if there's similar people who maybe work in tech who are listening to this podcast, like hopefully they can understand like somebody similar, like they can resonate to your story deeply and be like hey, maybe I am making $150,000 a year, but I'm not really taking the time to manage my money appropriately, or not only that like.
Speaker 2:I think one of the key things I'm seeing in your life on is, like you just understand what you value. Like you've sat down and put out this picture like what do I really want to accomplish with money in general? Like, of course, yeah, you could go out there and buy the Gucci belt or buy the boat if you wanted to get a custom made boat. Like you could potentially do that, but is that something that you value? Like, is your freedom less important than the boat? Right, like you know what do you value most? And ultimately, you know the next question is like why are we working to begin with? Like, why are we selling our time? Like, of course, like I'm sure there's parts of it that you enjoy, but at the same time, like the whole points, like one of the best things money can buy in general is the freedom to do whatever the hell you want. So, yeah, naturally, if you kind of shape up your life where, like, you don't over extend yourself in the three areas which the one is housing, second is car, third is just eating out and food, like those are the three core expenses. Like, if you're just more strategic and don't overspend in those areas, you can start to navigate through life a little bit more agile, right? Like you can find new job opportunities and take more career risk, if that's what you want to do. Or retire early, like, if you want to retire at 45, 40, you'll have that option because you're not over extending your life.
Speaker 2:Now, again, like I think this podcast is really is really well rounded, because it all kind of stems back to like, why are you doing this to begin with? Like, why do you need that fancy boat? Is because it's something that you're trying to flex? Like, are you trying to appear more bougie to your co-workers so you project this image, or is it something you know? Again, if it's something you enjoy, cool.
Speaker 2:Is it not like judging anybody for wanting fancy things? Like there's nothing wrong with wanting to buy a boat, for whatever reason, if you're a boat person, but at the same time, is it something that you actually value? Like, are you willing to spend the money on it? Is it going to come at the expense of building a better financial future for yourself? Is it going to come at the expense of making things more difficult if the economy starts to turn on a dime and maybe your job isn't as secure as you thought, because that's the one mistake, because a lot of people think they're job secure until their industry starts to get hit, like we've seen in tech, like there's a big stand, so like the past year and a half to two years has been just a complete kind of job haltings, like no more job hiring. It's been kind of frozen in a sense. And that was the complete opposite during COVID, like tech just seemed like it would expand forever. And of course that's the same thing we see in the stock market, where when we get into these frenzies, like people just think the stock market is going to go up forever.
Speaker 1:And that's the exact moment where the stock market is going to humble you.
Speaker 2:And businesses and jobs. Like they are the stock markets, like, of course, that same behavior is seen in the corporate world. So, yeah, I think this is a huge, great podcast. Thank you so much for like spending the time, vaughn, to come on here and sharing your journey. I really hope. I think it's going to impact a lot of people, for especially people that can resonate with it, who may be even work in tech. But, pierce, that being said, do you have any like specific thoughts or any last questions for Vaughn before we wrap things up?
Speaker 3:No, I just want to say thank you for your time and you gave me a lot of great topics to think about. Until you know, try to put into my own life. So I mean I really appreciate your words and your wisdom, Thank you.
Speaker 4:No, thank you guys so much for having me. I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Of course. And then, vaughn, where's a good place that our listeners can find you Like? Maybe your Twitter or any other social media platforms that you're on?
Speaker 4:Okay, yeah, no, I'm trying to get off social media. So, as of now, the only social media I have is on Twitter at. It's the wealth number four me, and we'll see how long I last on there, but that's where. That's where I am for now.
Speaker 2:Well, while she's here, do me a favor, everybody Marco Hustle community go give her a follow. Follow her content. There's a lot of amazing stuff there. Hopefully she stays a little bit longer because the gems that you put out there you just bring a unique taste or just a unique perspective to the money Twitter world. So I hope you stay there because I think you're impacting a lot more lives than you think you are, and I encourage the Marco Hustle community to go check her out and follow all the content that she's putting out there. This has been a great podcast. I can't wait to re listen to this one. We'll be back next week. Me, Buffy and Pierce will have another special guest on here. Thanks again, Vaughn, for being on this podcast and we'll see you all next week. Bye, bye. Thanks so much. I'm a hustle hustle with the market hustle.