Episode 28: Avoiding Fraud with Detective David Elliott

Detective David Elliott provides valuable insights on common financial crimes and scams, emphasizing the importance of caution and vigilance. The episode also offers practical tips such as consulting with banks, staying informed about scams, and seeking law enforcement help when needed. Overall, the key message is to be aware and seek professional guidance to safeguard against falling victim to financial fraud.

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Transcript

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Have you ever heard of a money mule? Me either, but today I sit down with Detective David Elliott to discuss financial crimes and how to avoid getting your money stolen.

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And welcome to the Retire Early, Retire Now podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Kelly, owner of Palm Valley Wealth Management. And I'm excited for the 28th episode of this podcast because we have very special guests, Detective David Elliott. He specializes in investigating financial crimes. And in our discussion today, we talk about common schemes, of ways that people get their money stolen or become victim of frauds, who's most acceptable, what type of schemes there are, and how to avoid these schemes. So if you like this podcast, go ahead and leave a review on your favorite podcasting app. And normally I would say share this with any friend, but today I have a specific request to share this, share this with your grandmother, your grandfather, maybe have parents that could use these type of tips. More often than not, I hear about elderly people getting their money stolen because they just don't know about these schemes. Technology has advanced so quickly, that it's easy to potentially get your money stolen if you're not aware of them. So, go ahead and help your grandmother out. And share this with her so that she can understand, ways that she can avoid getting her money stolen.

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And welcome David Elliott to the retire early retire now podcast. I'm excited to have you on, uh, I've, I've been wanting to have you on for a while. You're actually the hardest guest I've, uh, had to beg to come on. Um, and just, just for context, for those who are listening, I'm known to have about 25 years. and, uh, I'm excited to have him on, never thought with David getting, uh,

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He's

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getting a criminal justice or criminology degree and me getting a biology degree in college, That we'd be sitting here talking about financial crimes, uh, and doing, doing not similar work, but I'm trying to help people create financial freedom and David's trying to help them keep their financial freedom by not getting their money stolen and fighting crime in that sense. So, uh, today I really just wanted to talk about what type of crimes there are out there that you should be aware of. Because it's, it's becoming more and more prevalent, like, kind of the history of people getting scammed was back in the late 90s, early 2000s, when the internet wasn't really around as much, people would get these calls and they'd say, hey, Uh, so and so, I need you to send money, blah, blah, blah, and people will send the money, and then next thing you know, their money's stolen, and so now they're a lot more complex with cryptocurrency and things of that nature, so I thought it would be super valuable to have David on because that's what he lives day to day is, uh, investigating these crimes so that we can find those bad guys and get them off the streets. without further ado, here's David Elliott. Why don't you go ahead and give us your background, how did you get into law enforcement and then how did you end up investigating financial crimes?

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Okay. Um, I got into law enforcement right after I graduated from FSU and did the basic law enforcement training, and then did about six years on patrol. after my six years on patrol, I went into, property crimes, which is I was doing a little bit of burglaries and, Majority of what I was trying to get based into doing was the, the financial crimes. So over the course of my years being on patrol, that's kind of what I focused on to try to get all the fraud calls I could get and get as much knowledge as I could with that. So, and that leads me to, to where I'm at now. I'm a member of the IFCI, which is the International Association of Financial Crimes Investigators. So that gives me access to networking with federal agencies, networking with, bank investigators. And then I go to a conference once a year, that's about a week long to go and talk about schemes of defraud, all sorts of other frauds, thefts, stuff that they're kind of seeing. Nationwide and worldwide on what's kind of coming down the pipe with everything. So,

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Yeah, I would imagine it's a, it's a rat race, if you will, with how often these, these criminals are creating new ways to, to steal money and then you having to learn them and then learn how to stop them before they, they happen. I would imagine there's a ton of education and, and, uh, I was unaware of the, the association that you're a part of what, I guess, giving you access to, to more agencies, I guess it helps more efficient. Okay. efficiency in your investigation, be able to track money and things of that nature. And so, what, what does the process look like if, if I am a person that I think I've been frauded out of money or what have you, like how would I even begin to get to the point where you're investigating my situation? So, there's

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There's a couple of different avenues. there's one way they can do is just, they can report it federally online, which is, I, or I see three. gov. that usually goes to all the main federal agencies. they use that to find out if there's other schemes that are bigger or other victims that are doing, had the same. victimization to find bigger schemes. or you can just simply go to your local sheriff's office or PD and, make an initial report that you've been defrauded out of money.

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extra report that you didn't, you frauded out of money. Yeah, in some of

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those cases, usually the smaller amounts and when I say smaller amounts, it's, it's usually under the thousands and that may not be small amounts for some people, but for the cases and stuff that we have to work, but usually the first thing we would do is advise you to contact your bank, let them know. that they have, you've been a victim of fraud. and a lot of times the banks will tell you if they want a fraud report. and that comes into the amounts on, on their end. So if you have something where it's like a 5, 000 fraud and they have a suspect, usually they're going to do a suspicious activity report. So they're going to want a report. if it's, I believe 20, 000 or more with no suspect, they're still going to want to report. So a lot of those times they're going to want you to make reports just to prove that. You're not saying that I'm committing fraud or I'm just saying that this charge is invalid and just trying to get the money back from the bank. Usually most of those people aren't going to go and make a report with a law enforcement agency if they're not really a victim of fraud.

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Yeah, they want to make sure that you're legit and not just trying to get something for a purchase. Maybe you regret buying or what happened. Yep. I know I've done that a couple of times where I've regretted a purchase, but I wonder if I could just, uh, go ahead and decline this transaction, but I don't think it works quite that way.

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So,

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I guess let's start out with just a couple of general tips. If you were. sitting in front of a, a room full of people and, and your, task was to help people avoid getting fraud. What are some simple, maybe two or three things that they can do, on a regular basis just to, to make sure that they're, increasing their likelihood that they're avoiding fraud?

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So, the best thing I advise to most people is Get a credit card company like Experian or Credit Karma, one of those companies that tracks your credit, and lock your credit. So that'll prevent anybody that's trying to open up loans in your account, credit cards in your account, they're not going to be able to do it. Me personally, I have mine locked. I can't even go to Home Depot and get a credit card until I unlock it. So that's one Avenue. but knowledge is kind of power in this, in this aspect where anytime that you just reading up on your own and knowing about all these schemes and the frauds and that kind of stuff, really helps. obviously the best thing to do is if something sounds suspicious, it probably is. and don't be so quick to give money to somebody that you just don't understand what's going on or don't personally know. a lot of times you can go and call. Your local bank and tell them kind of what's going on. And a lot of times they'll be able to tell you, yeah, you're trying, someone's trying to scam you. So that's usually probably the best way of calling your banks, locking your credit. and then just basically just reading up on your own, trying to figure out some of the fraud schemes that they're doing. and I'm sure that's what we're gonna talk about. Yeah. quite in depth, so. Yep.

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out some fraud schemes that they're doing. and I'm sure that's what we're going to talk about. so thank you for that and, and so now what I want to do is I want to get into essentially David texting me a bunch of different schemes and things of that nature. And so what I want to do is start talking about what those schemes are, who's most vulnerable to those schemes, and then easy ways to kind of avoid those. the first thing I want to start with and talking with David before this podcast, this one is kind of like a broad scheme. it typically happens with, a bunch of different types of money laundering schemes. what is called is money mule and I alluded this and in the intro is, is a money mule. And so what is a money mule, David?

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So a money mule is essentially someone that's more or less a middleman. usually the fraud doesn't start with a money mule. It's usually another fraud that is involving them. an example of that would be, They're talking to somebody within a romance scam, which we'll talk about later. But, and that person says, Hey, you're going to receive this amount of money. and I want you to send it to this account or vice versa. There's numbers of things that they can tell them to do with these accounts. The money mule essentially is a person that is accepting the money and either moving it for suspect unknowingly or knowingly. and that's kind of their role. So a lot of times they used to prey on some of the disabled folks or that were less fortunate with money and said, Hey, if you open up a bank account, we can deposit this amount of money into you. And you, so say for instance, they said, we're going to put 1, 000 in your account. you can take 100 and just send the 900 to this person's account. and so that's what they try to do is they try to use multiple different money mules and the aspect of trying to, to hide the money or move the money and making it more difficult for investigators. but a lot of people don't know is if you are a money mule, you are committing a crime. Now a lot of the times we have to go and reach out to these people and explain Hey, you are committing a crime. Majority of the time, we're not going to arrest you being the first time, not knowing that you're here and committing a crime. But if you continue to keep doing that and continue to keep accepting money and moving money, then we will come back in. We'll charge you because you now know that you are committing a crime.

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you acknowledge, you acknowledge that you know the law at this point, and so

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so

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yeah, this is kind of the middle point of how people, we were talking about before we got live here, before we went live, that basically this is a way that the criminals kind of clean the money. If I'm the criminal and I'm sending David money and David sends it to some unknown account, Well, it looks like David's clean, so it's not a red flag to the bank. And so this is how they do it. one of the things that you mentioned is called a romance scam. to me, romance scam, praying on, disabled people, maybe elderly people that have a certain type of like dementia and things of that nature, where maybe they're not thinking as clearly. Um, really what these scammers are trying to do is prey on those people because they see a vulnerability, right? let's kind of hop into what a romance scam is. Yeah,

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Yeah. So essentially that is, a lot of times we kind of saw. even more so when you had the war going on, you had a lot of the people that would claim they're, they're veterans overseas and, they start talking to somebody either through instant messenger, Facebook, any type of social media platform, plenty of fish, like any of these dating websites. over the course of time, usually like a month or two trying to get their confidence up and, let their guard down. So where they would say, Hey, I'm trying to get back to the States. a lot of times they'll say, I can't get back to the States because of a passport issue. If you're able to send me this amount of money, then that's what they would do is that's how they get, they play it. They pray on. People's emotions, and being in love or being lonely, and they have somebody that's finally, talking to them and giving them some sort of comfort. And they think, well, I'm just helping them out, so I'm sending them money. And, which in turn is, a lot of times when they send it to that one account, that's not even your suspect's account. That comes back to that being a Money Mule's account. And that person being part of a romance scam, and it just kind of, Compounds on that. But that's essentially the bare bones of of it is they just prey on people's on people's wanting to be loved. and that emotion. there's times that I've gone out and talk to people that were money mule as part of a romance scam and They're just like, well, I just don't believe you. Like I know this person is my boyfriend.

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I've talked to this person multiple

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I've talked to this person multiple times and I'm like, well, have you ever talked to him on the phone or have you ever seen him? And like, well, I've talked to him on the phone, but I was like, have you FaceTime with them? Have you video chatted? No, I've never done any of that. I know they're a real person. I know they love me. And that's just what it's so hard to break some of these people because they'll still continue to do it thinking that they're in love and they're. Yeah, it's

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It's like a ultimate, if you're of a certain age, you'll, you'll remember the show. It's like a ultimate game of a catfish there,

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catfish there. Except they're not

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except they're not just, pretending to be a different person. They're actually stealing your money. So even worse, to be honest, and, and so I would suspect, a couple of different people would be, more vulnerable than others. Maybe somebody that is older that maybe is recently divorced or maybe they have never been married before or they're they're just elderly and kind of confused and maybe they're they're a widow or something of that nature. And so they are longing for that companionship. and so it's easy to play on that emotion. And then, hey, I need money to, to do this or that and next thing you know, you're out 20, 000 or whatever

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this mm-hmm,

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sum of amount is. So the next thing I wanted to jump in and I quite often hear this, not only from, from people like you that investigate these type of crimes, but from, just different businesses and that is business email compromise or, These these criminals are getting into your email and one common one that I've heard about a lot is when people are having a Real estate transaction, right? The title company has to receive that money into their escrow. Well, that email will get hacked they'll change a couple digits on the routing number or Account number next thing, you know, you're 200, 000 down payment is somewhere in India or across the country in a different bank account so Explain kind of that and how prevalent that is. I feel like Since you've been doing this, this specific type of investigating, that is probably one of the most common things that I've heard you talk about with me. The initial

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of the most common things that I've heard you talk about with me. transactions with selling a house. It's what they focus on is any of these companies that do large transactions, any of these bigger companies. So the scammer will try to. they'll put malware on somebody's computer. So usually that's going to be, they're going to try to prey on one of the newer employees or send some sort of email where they're able to click and put malware on there. And they will literally just sit and watch emails constantly, seeing what they're doing, seeing what their transactions are, seeing where they're moving the money. And then at some point, they will make a fake email and what they will do. say for instance, I guess you have, an email that says Hunter Kelly and then one, two, three, four is his legitimate email. What they will do is instead of putting that one, they'll put an L so you don't see it and they'll create the email that looks exactly the same. But until you look at the actual email address, that's the only way you usually know that it's fraudulent. so say for instance, Hunter is The person they're trying to victimize, they will send a letter or a email to them saying, Hey, we have a new invoice that we need you to pay. We have recently changed our banks. Here's our new routing information. and then what they will do is they'll put a phone number at the bottom of that and try to get that person to call that phone number, which will come back to the scammers. And the scammer will be, yes, we've changed your information or changed our bank routing information. yep, just send the money. So, They will usually send that money not knowing that they're actually sending it to a fraudulent account And in that aspect they'll be out the money that they sent them and the money that they're required to pay for that invoice for example, so A lot of times we our goal is to try to figure out where that compromise happened And um and go from there, but those are one of the more complex ones. And that's kind of what these larger corporations overseas and that kind of stuff kind of kind of prey on to try to get the most bang for their buck. and that's in the billions of dollars that they're doing frauds now with those, just because of the technology and how crazy things have

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in the billions of dollars that they're doing for us now with those, just because of the technology and, and how critical it is to us. They would have all this training. And so to me, it's more top of mind, but someone that doesn't do it very often, I could see how easily someone could get tricked and a funny story. We, we had this older, gentleman that worked in our firm, for a short amount of time and they would, they would, the it department would send these phishing emails like to test, right. And they would always send out the reports and this guy would always click on it. But I'm just like. They look so much different than any other email. It's like, I don't know how you're clicking on it, but maybe it's just because he was older. and that's why I worry about the, the senior population. And, and one of the big things that the regulators look for is that, that elder abuse. Not only from the scammers, but from a standpoint of, of caregivers and, and things of that nature still in money. Be aware of those emails. And I guess the easiest way, at least to me, is if you see an email that looks legit, but maybe you're not, you're unsure, really dive into that email address and say, okay, is this an email address site? I remember, and then I wouldn't call the number on the email, I would call, if it's Bank of America for instance, I would get on Bank of America's website and then call that number, so that you would understand, or that you know for sure you are calling Bank of America, and they can tell you, oh, this is legit, or this is, this is illegitimate.

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Right. Yeah. What I did when I was buying my house and I had to do a wire transfer is, instead of calling them, I actually went up personally to the mortgage company. I said, Hey, can you print out your wiring instructions? they looked at me like I was kind of weird cause I'm probably the only person that does that. But if I know that they're printing it out from their computer and it's, and I'm seeing the person physically, it's not going to usually be. an incorrect one, but they, they usually focus on these, the law firms, mortgage companies, just any type of company that does big, large transactions. So, I mean, there's cases where people send out 10 million for their usual payments of stuff, and, um, now they're out the 20 million because they still gotta pay the 10 million to the vendor, so.

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Yep. And, yeah, I didn't quite go as far as you and my last, uh, real estate transaction when we bought our most recent house, but I did call them as I was making the wire. and oddly enough, the lady did not send the right amount. She left the zero off. And then they looked at me weird because there wasn't enough money. So then I had to go back to Bank of America and have them do it again. but in any case, I called them just because of that reason. And again, I think for us, and especially you, it's more top of mind because I'm getting training because my regulators are worried about

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am sleeping

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my clients losing money and then obviously you're investigating those criminals.

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So,

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one thing I didn't write down that I, I would like to talk about, just, just thinking about in our conversation, how do you see, elderly people or have you investigated elderly, elderly, elderly people getting their money stolen from caregivers? What are some things that maybe, maybe I, I hired somebody to help out with my grandmother or my mother, and you suspect some sort of financial abuse, what, what should those family members be looking out for?

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Okay. Yeah. So some of these cases I, I like working in these cases and I take them kind of personally, especially when these people are preying on some of the older individuals that have cognitive issues. but some of the things are it's just, it's just as simple as leaving your checkbook out, out in the open. and they'll go out and they'll see the checkbook and they'll either just simply steal the check and write it to themselves or, write to somebody else and cash it in their account. There's a number of ways that they can do it. But, I know that they're supposed to trust a lot of these people that are their caregivers. Um, but the best thing to do is when they're coming over there, make sure you hide all your financial documents, put them in a safe where they can't get access to them. because I mean, times are tough and everybody's struggling for money. And if they're able to, figure out a way to get some quick cash. Maybe it's just a thousand dollars that may not register on that elderly person's, account. They'll, they'll steal it. best thing.

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And sorry to cut you off, but, and Long story short, I have a little bit of experience in this field as far as like secondhand, my mother's worked in this field for a long time. And so, I know that these caregivers don't necessarily make the most money. And so not that I'm insinuating that caregivers are bad or anything like that, but, when times do get tough and maybe I'm desperate for money and I'm taking care of this person that has millions of dollars, it can be tempting to go ahead and do that. I guess. One of the ways that I could see potentially mitigating this risk outside of just hiding your financial documents is potentially giving that family member that you trust, maybe your daughter, your son, or your spouse that doesn't have this particular ailment, power of attorney to do financial audits, so that, hey, there's a 10, 000 check that was cashed. Where did, how did, How did this money get cashed and where did it come from? and so making sure that you have some checks and balances doing proper estate planning so that if you get to a point where you're incapacitated to not make those decisions, having a power of attorney, of someone that you trust to audit that, could go a long way in the way of, helping yourself out, but helping, helping your kids and your family. I

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whenever they're getting checks or something like that? It needs to be. I need to be called. I need to know what's going on. so that would also prevent them if they're being involved in another scam, romance game or whatever it is, and they're trying to cash a check on their end. They're like, well, yeah, they, it's their account. They can cash it. It's a person. Yeah, no. But they go and call the person that has power of attorney and they're like, no, they shouldn't be cashing that check. So it's just another avenue to help protect them.

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Yeah, no, that's, that's good information there, I didn't, I assume, obviously, people could get power of attorneys, but I didn't know you could set up those alerts, so that's, that's good information there. a lot of these scams that we've talked about, have been, I guess, more geared toward, elderly. Um, individuals, I'd like to transition into one other, probably more common one and then get into cryptocurrency because that is becoming obviously more and more prevalent as cryptocurrency becomes more popular, as a means of, Moving money. but before we jump into that gas skimmers, gas skimmers are very popular. They've been in the news a bunch. I just have some, I guess, personal questions about that. How do these criminals actually get the skimmers on there? Because I feel like there's video cameras everywhere. The gas stations sometimes are open 24 hours a day. How are they able to get that skimmer on there? Anyways, to be able to do that.

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It does not take long. I mean, when I say it's quick, like 7 seconds quick. I'm not going to tell you exactly how they get access into them. but what they'll do is they'll, they're able to get access into the, the gas, pumps usually, and they'll put the, the reader in there that can read the mag stripe. And some of them get as sophisticated as putting a, I guess you could say like a, keypad over the original keypad. So if somebody is using a debit card and they're using their pin number, they punch in that pin number and it'll come back to them. So they know the mag stripe and they know the pin number. So from that they can either go on the dark web and they'll go and sell that person's information on the dark web, or they can go and put it on to, another credit card to make money off of that. they haven't been getting, I guess they're more focusing on the gas cameras. They used to put them on, like Bank of America's and those ATMs and it essentially just go over the top The, the card reader, um, that's kind of gone away with the chip reading. We don't really see much of that. but even when I go to the ATM, a lot of them, they don't even have this anymore, but you can pull on the outside of the ATM, reader. And if that pops right off, then that's a skimmer. Nobody's going to have. reader that pops right off. So if that does happen, obviously go in there and contact that bank and let them know that they have a skimmer on there. Um, but they'll put them inside of the actual ATM itself that's able to read the max, right? And they've even gotten sophisticated as now where it's Bluetooth or cellular. So you can be in a whole nother country and they can read what's going on in skimmer and they can make their own cards that way. So it's kind of an endless, Way they're able to make money. but it's, it's always gonna be progressing.

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going to be progressing.

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Yeah, that's correct.

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as much as, as much as I follow Dave Ramsey and think that he's done a great job and all these other financial gurus, like the prime example why I recommend credit cards to clients is because if I get a transaction that I know that is fraudulent, guess what? I can call them. They can cancel it and there's no skin off my back. If someone takes, physically takes money out of my account, well now I got to call David and he may or may not be able to get to it. and just so long to that, whatever amount of money

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And if it goes through a debit card in, You can still run it as credit, but if you decide not to and you put your pin number in there they have your pin number now

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Mm hmm.

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not reimburse you so I know credit cards and people are upset about using them because the interest rate so bad but if you Treat the credit card like a debit card And pay it off, then you're not going to be even involved with the interest. but I, I use my credit card for all my transactions that I have to swipe just because I know if that gets compromised, at least it's not directly connected to my bank

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Yeah, the money isn't physically coming out because it's, you technically have a loan for at least a few weeks until you pay it off. so yeah, use a credit card, use it responsibly. Obviously don't, don't accrue a bunch of, Interest on those balances and things of that nature get those things paid off. But, as far as security, it's, it's the best way to go, especially with those skimmers. And so let's dive into cryptocurrency. obviously the, this is one that I guess the elderly community probably doesn't understand. and just give like a quick overview. Obviously cryptocurrency is a digital currency. Type of money or currency that there is. And then, and then you have these digital wallets. And so what are some common ways, that you see that people are getting money stolen and things of that nature?

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Okay. So with cryptocurrency, it's not basically just for the older population that are getting scammed out of it. It's even getting now to the younger generation because that's what everybody is trying to get involved into. But majority of these scams that they will get, a lot that we're seeing is they'll get. you have malware on your Mac book pro or you have malware on your computer and it'll be a link that you need to call this number. We'll end up calling that number and they'll say, Hey, we've done a scan on your computer. Um, you have all these sorts of viruses pictures that aren't supposed to be there. the feds are going to get involved. The problem or the way to prevent this is we need to have let's say 10, 000 to fix this problem. So we suggest the best thing for you to do is to take your money out of your bank of America account or out of your vice or account. And we need to put it into cryptocurrency considering the way the banks are going and getting so crazy with inflation and collapsing and stuff like that. We need to put it into Bitcoin. So they'll have the person go to the account or go to their bank account. They'll take out the money and they'll start putting money into these Bitcoin ATM machines. They'll do up to I mean you can do I guess up to a hundred thousand dollars in transactions, but They'll have them just start putting money in putting money in and they'll give them me an address to send it to So that person doesn't even have to have a crypto account. They could have 100 and they're told

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have 100 and they're sending the money

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-19: 29:51

Yeah, they're sending the money to the Crypto address. So, and I'll kind of backtrack with this. So there's a difference between an address and a wallet. So a wallet can be a collection of addresses. So the guess the best way to explain what a wallet would be would be more or less your bank account that would have your checking and your savings account. Your address could be like one of your checking accounts. So they're having them send it to an address. And that address is a public address that anybody can see on the cryptocurrency ledger. So, those cases that I will get, they will give me the address it went to, and then I'll continue to track to see where the money went after that address. but people have been doing cryptocurrency scams and thinking that law enforcement can't track it, and we kind of can't, so.

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-18: 30:41

And I guess that's where my question was going to go next is, is do you find it more difficult to track the cryptocurrency money versus just a normal, like, I guess, more traditional type fraud case?

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-19: 30:53

currency money versus just

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-18: 30:57

to JPMorgan. It's

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-19: 30:58

I guess more traditional type of case? Money from one make to another. A lot of times it's not going to be immediate, especially if it's a bigger transaction, they're going to have some holds or something like that. but the thing with those is I have to contact an investigator from let's say bank of America, then it goes to JPMorgan. Then I got to contact one of them. And a lot of times they won't give you the information that you need without a subpoena. So you need to wait probably 30 days or so unless it's like an extension circumstance and I can get it immediately but With the cryptocurrency is when they're moving it from wall to wall to wallet Then or other addresses to addresses I can track it that way what I don't have to go in

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-18: 31:44

don't have an institution to

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-19: 31:45

Yeah, keep going through them that way. But at the same time, it's sometimes harder to track, especially if they're doing a lot of movements. So it just depends on the case and how involved it is. but with the overseas kind of stuff, that's where it kind of gets really complex and they're putting them into larger accounts and moving money. It just can get really, inundated.

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-18: 32:06

where I can see it getting difficult, is Yeah, it starts out in like a domestic type situation, and then quickly it's, it's overseas. And so at that point you're like, who do you arrest? you know, like,

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-19: 32:18

so, and that's what people are like, well, if it goes overseas and they can't do anything and that's not entirely correct. So, I mean, a lot of these exchanges, they go to like a Binance or something like that. Or if somebody has a Coinbase and they're in Singapore, but they're using Coinbase, which I don't believe you can get an account with Coinbase in Singapore, but that's another rabbit. That's another rabbit hole. Get down. But, if it goes to one of those exchanges that's in America and they have to abide by the American, The American models then I am able to seize that account and take that money back. So a lot of times we may not be able to arrest somebody in In thailand or in other countries, but the best thing I can do is take the money back get it back to my victim So sometimes that's just as effective as arresting somebody because that's their main goal to get the money And if you can take that money back from them give it back to the victims. That's sometimes just as good as an arrest

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-18: 33:09

Oh, yeah. To, to me that, I mean, if I made whole, then, then yeah, it's not ideal because that guy's still out there or gal is out there scamming somebody. but, but now I'm aware of these scams and I have my money back. no harm, no foul, in the sense that I have my money back and I'm a lot less likely to, to fall for that scam again. Well, before we get out of here, are there any other tips or things that you may have wanted to talk about that we didn't cover?

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-19: 33:37

just comes back down to basically knowledge. I mean, knowledge is power in this situation to figure out, if you're going to be scammed or not. So don't be so quick to give away money. Don't be so quick to, to believe people. Um, and if someone is constantly pushing you and pushing you to give you money, then they're, they're probably trying to scam you. So just take your time with these things and, and Just give your money when you feel like it's best for you and you feel like you're not going to be scammed, but it comes back to contacting your bank and a lot of times they can help you out. Good. And

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-18: 34:10

normally I would ask how people can reach you. I'm hoping they don't have to ever reach you. but, Are there a couple of websites where we may be able to learn about these scams?

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-19: 34:18

ic3. gov is probably the best

Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite USB Audio)-18: 34:20

All right. I see three dot gov. I'll link that in the show notes, so that you can easily go there and a lot of these same scams that we talked about are on there. But as those new ones pop up, I would say maybe check it once a quarter or something like that so that you're just aware of those, those new, new scams and, hopefully this was helpful and, we'll try to have David back on, at a later date if we feel that there are more scams to talk about. we'll see you in the next one.,

Microphone (6- Shure MV7): 34:45

I just want to say thank you again to Detective David Elliott for coming on to the podcast. If you feel that you are a victim of fraud or your money has been stolen, make sure you reach out to both the institution that you are working with on the legitimate transaction, and then also local law enforcement if you believe to be, a victim of that fraud. remember. This podcast is for educational purposes only. It is not financial or investment advice. If you need help about your specific situation, please reach out to a professional in the financial tax, legal, or insurance profession, and we'll see you in the next one.