The Five Solas: Solus Christus (Timeless) - Part 4 of a 6 Part Series

We continue our series on the Five Solas with Sola Christus (Christ Alone).  We look at Jesus Christ and how the doctrine of Christ Alone has ebbed and flowed over the years.  

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Transcript

Greg [00:00:01]:
Oh, yeah. Halfway through, I started losing my voice. Oh, right. Yeah.

Dave [00:00:04]:
No. That's all that was about? Yeah.

Greg [00:00:07]:
That's all. Singing earlier.

Chad [00:00:09]:
This is a podcast, sir. If mister Craig loses his voice, we are dead in the water. Yeah.

Dave [00:00:16]:
Are we though?

Greg [00:00:42]:
I was doing a Memorial Day concert today. Okay. Patriotic songs. Sure.

Dave [00:00:48]:
It's a grand old flag. It's a high flying flag. Oh, that would do that one.

Greg [00:00:52]:
No. I didn't.

Dave [00:00:56]:
It's a emblem of

Greg [00:00:58]:
I did. Yeah. This land is my land. This land is yours.

Dave [00:01:02]:
Such a hippie song.

Greg [00:01:03]:
It was. Yeah.

Dave [00:01:03]:
It was quite the hippie song.

Greg [00:01:05]:
I did the, yeah, America the Beautiful.

Dave [00:01:07]:
Nice.

Greg [00:01:08]:
What else did I do?

Dave [00:01:10]:
I don't know. You're gonna have to tell me. But I can sing the words. Yeah. The grapes of wrath are stored. Yeah. The lightning swift sword. His truth is marching on glory, glory, hallelujah.

Dave [00:01:27]:
Yeah. The highest

Greg [00:01:28]:
It's not necessary patriotic, but I did, country roads take me home to the place I belong.

Dave [00:01:37]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's a kind of patriotic

Greg [00:01:41]:
esque. Yeah. It's just like the home country American. Americana.

Dave [00:01:47]:
Merck.

Chad [00:01:47]:
There's no other country you're gonna hear that in.

Greg [00:01:50]:
Right. Yeah. They I threw them off when I did O Canada.

Chad [00:01:54]:
Oh, so I don't think you'll be offended by this. But if you are, just contact HR. They'll add it to my record. Okay. Went to the air show, last summer. Yeah. And they announced they said, we'll now begin with the playing of the national anthem. And the boys and I were going back to the to the truck to, like, set up and everything.

Chad [00:02:14]:
So we're mid stride, and I say, okay. Stop. And we stop, and we look at the flag, and they start playing O Canada. I said, okay. Wait for the real one. And we kept going

Dave [00:02:23]:
on to wait for the real one. So we

Chad [00:02:26]:
kept on going back to where we're going.

Greg [00:02:28]:
Yeah. If you were to go to a Tigers game this weekend, you gotta listen through 2 national anthems because they're

Dave [00:02:34]:
They're playing

Greg [00:02:35]:
Toronto Blue Jays are in for a 4 game series.

Chad [00:02:39]:
Yep.

Dave [00:02:39]:
You know, I used to think Blue Jays would be really nice birds. They're really super aggressive. They're mean.

Greg [00:02:44]:
They are. Yeah.

Dave [00:02:45]:
They're like the big bully out there.

Greg [00:02:46]:
They're my favorite bird.

Dave [00:02:47]:
The bully of birds. It kinda figures.

Greg [00:02:49]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:02:50]:
I I could see that guy. You big bully. You know what's even more aggressive than a Blue Jay? It's a Stellar Jay. A Stellar Jay are bigger than Blue Jays, and they they look like Blue Jays. They're out west. No. Look at

Chad [00:03:03]:
the The sound's made up. Yeah.

Dave [00:03:05]:
No. I remember it was so we were out. I remember we were coming back across the states. We flew home from Japan. Mhmm. From Yes. From Japan.

Greg [00:03:16]:
Okay.

Dave [00:03:16]:
Okay. And we stopped, and we did this tour of these this tour of national parks. And we stopped to get lunch out. We got lunch out, and we sat down on this picnic picnic table, and it was like the movie The Birds. Oh, it's like this this flock of stellar jade, like, chirping. Like, really chirping at us. And if you looked away, they would come up and grab your chips. I mean, they were super, super aggressive.

Dave [00:03:44]:
And and where was this? This was at that was at Kings Canyon, but we were doing Yosemite Kings Canyon and some of the California National Parks.

Chad [00:03:51]:
So they followed you from Japan?

Dave [00:03:53]:
No. They're these are This is an invasive species This

Chad [00:03:56]:
is and it's your fault.

Dave [00:03:57]:
Yeah. Okay. Plain to you. Yep. I I think they're native to the United States.

Chad [00:04:02]:
They are now.

Dave [00:04:03]:
Native American.

Chad [00:04:05]:
They're native now.

Dave [00:04:10]:
Yeah. Put that send that one up to HR. Yep. This has gotta make the this is so good. No. Stellar J's, they're really interesting. Look. You can look them up.

Dave [00:04:18]:
I have actually, I have a picture of 1 on my phone because when Danielle and Scott and I went out there to Yosemite camping, I saw 1 on the trail, and I snapped the photo. And you said, I did that. And I made sure with my nephew who is a big birder. Mhmm. Birder, not big bird, but he's a big birder. No. This this I Josh, hope you appreciate this.

Greg [00:04:42]:
Call me a big birder.

Dave [00:04:43]:
Yes. He would take he would not take that as an insult. So this is great, but and I hope he hears this. Okay. He recently went to Kenya to visit one of his cousins, my niece, who helps run an orphanage over there. He was like I was like, are you gonna take some time to tour? And he goes, yeah. And I'm expecting, like, can't wait to see the lions and the right? Giraffe. He's like, yeah.

Dave [00:05:06]:
There's, like, over 250 species of birds over there that only are in Africa. So I'm really excited about taking some photos, and I was like, lions? You wanna see lions or hippopotamus? Or and he was like, yeah. That too. So Nice. Yeah. All in all All that. So he's my stellar J source. He is a faithful listener.

Dave [00:05:27]:
He Oh. Yeah. So Very cool. Hey,

Chad [00:05:30]:
Josh. Welcome.

Dave [00:05:36]:
Turned into a sixties

Greg [00:05:37]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:05:38]:
I guess. Poetry reading. Anyway, wow. How'd we get to all because of Memorial Day singing. Yeah.

Chad [00:05:45]:
Which I'm sure Memorial Day singing. I'm sure you were going somewhere with that story.

Greg [00:05:49]:
Yeah. By the way. Oh, yeah. Halfway through, I started losing my voice.

Chad [00:05:53]:
Oh, right.

Dave [00:05:54]:
Yeah. That's all. That's

Greg [00:05:57]:
all. Singing earlier.

Chad [00:05:59]:
This is a podcast, sir. If mister Greg loses his voice, we are dead in the water. Yeah.

Dave [00:06:06]:
Are we, though? I mean, we've all done this with kind of weak voices. So He could at least do this. I don't know. I hope I hope your voice holds up, Greg. We don't wanna ruin the podcast. Didn't you have something you wanted to start with, or is

Greg [00:06:24]:
it too late? I do. I have a goal for us.

Dave [00:06:27]:
Oh, okay. What is this goal? Okay.

Greg [00:06:29]:
So I was driving today, and I was listening to my second favorite podcast. And I'm not gonna name it, but it's my second favorite podcast.

Dave [00:06:36]:
Probably Paul Washer podcast.

Greg [00:06:41]:
I can't How

Dave [00:06:41]:
come you're looking at me like I

Greg [00:06:43]:
nailed it? Listen to Paul Washer while I'm driving. I'm too convicted. Yeah. Okay. So they they were referencing back to their 200th episode. And when they had their 200th episode, they started using video too. Okay. And so they're, like, recording with video all of their podcasts too, so their listeners can now also watch them.

Greg [00:07:05]:
And I was just thinking, like, if we had a goal like that to where we were watching, where where our listeners now could, like, watch us when we get to

Dave [00:07:14]:
to some

Greg [00:07:14]:
point, because I would love for people to be able to watch Dave when he's reading from his NASB. Because, like, that thing, what what do you think it weighs, Chad?

Dave [00:07:25]:
Like, I It's like a family Bible.

Chad [00:07:27]:
I'd say 4 or £5.

Greg [00:07:29]:
I'd remember, like, 15, 20. It's tough. Like, when he's holding that thing up trying to read it and you see his arm drifting

Dave [00:07:36]:
and It has the g my family genealogy from the 1600.

Greg [00:07:39]:
If we were to if we were to record more If we were to record more than once a week, he'd he'd get really buff holding that thing off. It's true. And I I would just love for the world to be able to see him wrestle with that thing.

Dave [00:07:51]:
I'm proud of my little my little nappy.

Greg [00:07:53]:
It's it's gigantic. It's pretty big. Well and it's because he's like

Dave [00:07:57]:
It's like an old preacher's bible.

Greg [00:07:59]:
I use my bible on my phone, but he can't see his phone to use that. And then there was the one time he tried to use his iPad, but the one button on it was too confusing for him. So he's been using his NASD bible ever since then.

Dave [00:08:12]:
A line here. I I don't know. Like, let me cross the line just a little bit.

Chad [00:08:20]:
And we'll never go to video.

Greg [00:08:22]:
He'll he'll forget by

Chad [00:08:24]:
tomorrow. Man. Wow.

Dave [00:08:27]:
I just don't know how much longer that's gonna be funny. That's the only thing that I I just don't know how much longer people are gonna laugh at that same joke. I think we've been doing that since day 1.

Chad [00:08:38]:
Is that how you remember it?

Dave [00:08:41]:
It's gotta be. Yeah. There's that. Come on. Come on. Dave, I love you. Oh, thanks. K.

Dave [00:09:01]:
Jack, if I could just get chat I mean, Greg to say that.

Greg [00:09:04]:
He doesn't even know my name anymore. The signs are there.

Dave [00:09:07]:
Bob? Bob, is that you? Good. By the way, isn't it like the 40th anniversary of the Valley Girl song this this year? You don't remember Valley Girl, the song? I remember, like, the Please tell me somebody out there knows the song. But that that was a song, and it's it's not a it's not a compliment. It was the song was actually an insult to all the San Fernando Valley people. Yeah. And Frank Zappa actually said he disdained people from this San Fernando Valley.

Greg [00:09:42]:
Alright. There goes our West Coast listeners.

Dave [00:09:44]:
Yeah. I didn't say that. Frank Zappa said that. Right. Okay. So

Chad [00:09:49]:
Yeah. I remember, like, valley girl culture and valley girl stereotypes when I was a kid, but I don't remember a song that Yeah.

Dave [00:09:56]:
No. The the thing that spread it was this song by Moon Okay. Moon Zappa, and she did the the valley talk.

Chad [00:10:04]:
Speaking of Valley girls, our topic for the night, sola Christus.

Dave [00:10:09]:
Well, I was Mary a Valley girl? Is that what we're gonna have to

Greg [00:10:13]:
find out.

Dave [00:10:13]:
Great transition. Nazareth Valley.

Chad [00:10:15]:
I'm getting pretty good at these transitions.

Dave [00:10:17]:
That was a really good seagu.

Greg [00:10:19]:
Yes.

Dave [00:10:21]:
Wow. Oh. The ultimate valley girl. Mary. I ask again.

Chad [00:10:29]:
Well, let's see. Catholics who they just dropped.

Dave [00:10:32]:
Yeah. Well, if if they weren't gonna drop Yeah. If they weren't gonna drop. You just dropped them. Yeah. If I didn't if they didn't drop at the beginning of the episode, by the end of the episode,

Chad [00:10:42]:
then I'd be very

Dave [00:10:43]:
happy with this.

Chad [00:10:44]:
So That's true. Yeah. But here we are in part 4 of our 6 part series on the 5 solas, sola Christus. And am I saying that right? Sola Christus? Solas

Dave [00:10:57]:
Christus. Sola Christus. Sola Christus. Generally, I've heard the church churchy Latin speakers go Christus.

Chad [00:11:05]:
I wondered about that. Alright. So Christ alone. So I ended up looking through the history of this again and kinda kinda trying to pull it all together here. And what I found out once again was that if you look back through church history starting, you know, 1st, 2nd century AD, kinda like the faith alone, it's easier to define what it's not than what it is. Mhmm. So the idea of Christ alone was really a response to the Catholic church and the veneration of Mary and the saints, and elevating Mary and the saints to a position of parody, with with Jesus in in a lot of people's minds.

Dave [00:11:51]:
So fair enough? I don't think a Catholic apologist would agree with that 100%.

Chad [00:11:58]:
Right. Probably not.

Greg [00:11:58]:
Yeah. Probably not. And I wouldn't say that it was a a response. It was just clarifying an original teaching Yeah. Because of the drift away from

Dave [00:12:08]:
the

Greg [00:12:08]:
original teaching. Right.

Chad [00:12:10]:
Okay. Yeah. That's fair.

Dave [00:12:12]:
Yeah. And I think it it's not just Mary. It's also the church that took the place of Christ in some ways. Yeah. Yeah. The church

Chad [00:12:19]:
and Is mediator and dispenser and

Dave [00:12:22]:
Yeah. And I and I don't know like, I think the statement solas Christus is clearly a reaction of the Catholic church. But I think it's also helpful to think through in terms of, okay, so do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved? Right. And I think the gospel is about Jesus the Messiah. And so that that's an issue as well in terms of, like, if we're gonna be missionaries, is it okay just to talk about God? Or do we go to some places, believes in God, generic, some generic God that are they saved? Are they Christians? Are they just they don't know it yet, or what's going on there? So I think that that's a angle worth talking about. You know? But I wouldn't make that the main point. But Okay.

Chad [00:13:08]:
Probably not a direct response. I like your the way you put it, Greg. More of a clarification. Right? Yeah. And some of the drift that happened over the years. Reestablishing. Reestablishing. Yeah.

Chad [00:13:18]:
Back to the basics. So as early as the 3rd century, we see prayers to Mary emerging in old Roman catacombs. Nobody really knows where, the veneration of Mary started or the veneration of the saints started, but the early bad records, not a lot's written down, that sort of thing. But in the 2nd 3rd century, we start to see this veneration of the saints and veneration of Mary. And suddenly in 431 at the Council of Ephesus, the concept of Theotokos,

Greg [00:13:49]:
I believe,

Chad [00:13:51]:
declaring Mary the mother of God was affirmed. And shortly after that, you're seeing you start seeing churches named for Mary or or dedicated to Mary start peppering Europe and the Middle East. Also, I'm wondering if you guys can kinda comment on this, Mariology and Christology. Are you guys familiar with these terms?

Dave [00:14:11]:
Yeah. So Christology generally would be Christology. Sorry. That's okay. It's okay. I wasn't I was I was trying to sneak it in there without you noticing.

Chad [00:14:19]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:14:20]:
Christology is the doctrine of Christ.

Chad [00:14:22]:
Now I have an esteem issue.

Dave [00:14:26]:
Anyway.

Greg [00:14:27]:
Okay. Sorry. Christology.

Dave [00:14:28]:
So so so are you talking about Christology or Chris Mariology or Mariology? Because those those are two different things. Maryology would be the study of Mary, and Mary ology would be the worship of Mary. Wow. Okay. So, like, idolatry, Mariolatry. Okay. Yeah. So those are two distinct terms.

Chad [00:14:49]:
Yeah. I was thinking of Mary Maryology. Okay. So, like, a doctrine of

Dave [00:14:54]:
of the virgin Mary or something like that. Right.

Chad [00:14:57]:
And Christology. Yeah.

Greg [00:14:58]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:14:58]:
So those would be 2 different doctrines. Right. Yeah.

Chad [00:15:01]:
Okay. Right. So tell me about Mary alatry because I didn't really come across that.

Dave [00:15:08]:
So Mary alatry would be more our accusation or the Protestant accusation of the Catholic position. They would claim that it's veneration. Okay. Right. So they would make a distinction between worship and veneration. Right.

Greg [00:15:25]:
And they have two levels of veneration. What what are the technical terms for them? Because there's veneration there's veneration of the saints that's like a lower veneration, and then there's veneration of Mary, and that's, like, one step higher. Mhmm. And they're not worship because there's worship of God, and God is God Jesus are the only ones that are worthy of worship. And then there's veneration, which is this special respect Honor. Honor. There's special respect and honor for Mary and the saints. And there's a higher veneration for Mary and a lower veneration for the saints.

Greg [00:16:01]:
And there's a special term for the veneration that I can't remember what they are. And the by the magic of Google, I'll have it in a moment. Okay. That's cool.

Dave [00:16:10]:
From the Protestant perspective, when you pray to ask mercy from, there's a very fine line.

Chad [00:16:17]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:16:17]:
And I I think there's a lot of times when it gets crossed between veneration and worship.

Greg [00:16:22]:
Okay. You ready for this? Ready. Alright. Dulia, d u l I a, the lesser form of veneration given to angels, saints, relics and images. Okay. Dulia. Hyperdulia, a special form of veneration given to the blessed Virgin Mary, her relics and images. Okay.

Dave [00:16:46]:
So that's Hooper Dulia would be like super du lea in English. Okay. Like, it would be it's all that's saying. It's like a little bit that's funny.

Greg [00:16:55]:
And then and then and there's there's latria, which is the highest level of veneration given only to God, and it's also known as worship or adoration.

Dave [00:17:06]:
What was that last one again?

Greg [00:17:08]:
Latria, latria.

Dave [00:17:11]:
Those are Greek terms, different Greek terms for for veneration or worship.

Chad [00:17:15]:
Okay.

Dave [00:17:16]:
Letria is especially is in general also has connotation of service, worship by service, like not like feeding the poor service, but doing something in service of God. Right. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, that's interesting. From a like I said, from a Protestant perspective, it really does feel like, they they claim not to worship, and officially, that's the position. But it hate to say it, but it just really starts to feel like some Mary worship going on at some level when you literally, you're you're just calling her. They have the doctrine.

Dave [00:17:51]:
Mhmm. They have the doctrine of the immaculate conception. When I was growing up, I thought the immaculate conception was Jesus virgin birth. Right. But that's not it. That they believe that Mary had an immaculate conception because sin did not get passed down to her. Right. Right.

Dave [00:18:07]:
So she was she didn't she didn't have the sin of Adam. And then while we ask her for mercy, the saints and Mary are able to dole out grace in some way or another. That I have not heard exactly what they mean by that, But anytime you have something or someone other than Jesus and God, the father, and spirit giving out grace in some way Yeah. That sounds pretty shitty to me. So, like, I I wanna give them credit for saying, look. We make a distinction, but I I think at a popular level at the ground roots

Chad [00:18:39]:
or grassroots.

Dave [00:18:40]:
Grassroots, that's the word. The grassroots level really does seem to be that there's some Mary worship, especially in South America when you see some of the Yeah. Parades and weird things that happen. Yeah. Tramp trips and Marys icon out throughout.

Chad [00:18:54]:
Yeah. And and, functionally, there's people that will bury certain things in their front yard to sell their house and rearrange the statues on the fireplace to get certain forms of blessing and and all sorts of other manner of things.

Dave [00:19:08]:
So have you seen the the Mary in the front yard with a an old bathtub used as a

Greg [00:19:14]:
cover. Burying the clamshell?

Dave [00:19:17]:
Is that that's a good way to say it, but they bury back like, take an old bathtub, and they would turn it side up on on its side, I guess, or long ways up, bury it halfway in, and that creates this nice little Oh, like like protection for Mary, and you put the Mary in your front yard with half a bathtub showing. Is that what that is? Yeah. They did that. I see it in the Scranton area a lot.

Chad [00:19:40]:
The more you know. The Catholic position, as I understand it, is that understanding Mary's role helps people understand Christ better.

Dave [00:19:52]:
How? That I mean, that was a very cynical sounding question, but that's a give yeah.

Chad [00:19:59]:
Yeah. I I I'm not ready to defend it. I just that's that's

Dave [00:20:03]:
yeah. And I've heard things directly from Catholic people that I know

Chad [00:20:07]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:20:08]:
To the effect that, well, why wouldn't you pray for Mary? Because why wouldn't Jesus listen to his mother? Like, everybody listens to their mother. Right?

Greg [00:20:16]:
Because Jesus said I and the Father are 1, not I and my mother are 1.

Dave [00:20:19]:
Right. No. I agree with you. But, I mean, that's the kind of thing you hear, and that's what, you know, when you talk about veneration and praying too. So there's so much theological stuff that we're holding off on. So Yeah. It for a few minutes. So be patient with us, but Yeah.

Dave [00:20:33]:
Since we hit some of this history. But Right. How many mediators do we need? We know that.

Chad [00:20:38]:
I I will tell you what.

Greg [00:20:39]:
This is the mediator.

Chad [00:20:43]:
I will tell you what. I have had some discussions with Catholic friends in the past about this sort of thing. And in my own readings, the one thing that they point out is that Mary did have a unique relationship with Christ in all of history. She was the only one to carry him within her and was the first to meet him. So this is all very true, but I keep going back to none of that is recorded in the scripture. I mean, it's a fact, and it's it's true, but if if you go through the 4 4, gospels Mhmm.

Greg [00:21:15]:
That Just the

Dave [00:21:16]:
there's just faith in them. Yeah. Mary's gonna be honored to say that. Yeah. Well yeah. Right? I mean, that that is stated in I think when the when that scripture is preached, Mary's honored. And I think that's probably the extent when we need to honor Mary.

Chad [00:21:34]:
Yeah. The story the birth story is only in 3 of the 4 gospels. Right? I mean, in Mark. Yeah. Here he is. Yeah.

Dave [00:21:41]:
It's Jesus. Hey. He's getting baptized.

Chad [00:21:44]:
Yeah. Let's go. So for the veneration of the saints, this shows up a little earlier in church history. 2nd century, we start seeing again catacomb inscriptions and pictures and and writings, about the saints. It's kinda murky as to when this really got underway. But by the 10th century, the Catholic church was starting to try to officially recognize, quote, unquote, the saints. And by the, by 1234, pope Gregory the Gregory. Greg.

Chad [00:22:15]:
Gregor.

Greg [00:22:16]:
He's the

Chad [00:22:16]:
one that canonized the veneration of the saints into an official, operationalized church process where, you know, you gotta have these characteristics, and then the church will recognize you as a saint.

Dave [00:22:29]:
So if you wanna if you wanna really know some of the reasons why things happened, particularly in the the Western church, in Rome in particular, just study Roman religion.

Chad [00:22:41]:
Okay.

Dave [00:22:41]:
So, nuns, go back and look up Vestal Virgins in Rome.

Chad [00:22:48]:
Oh, we're talking like the Roman Empire.

Dave [00:22:51]:
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So nuns are basically Vestal Persians, basically syncretism with with Roman religion. There's a all sorts of there's all sorts of of parallels between Rome, ancient Rome Right. And the Catholic church and how they mixed how they developed Christianity.

Greg [00:23:11]:
So, you know, there's a whole other episode right there. We could take we could take how the Roman church appropriated culture into the church and just look at parallels today of how the church is tries to appropriate culture. And Yep. There's there's really some unfortunate things that you can see going on. Yeah. But that's a whole other episode.

Dave [00:23:33]:
Yeah. That would be that'd be fun. Yeah. Put it on the list. Put it on the list. Unless someone buy it buy. Oh, we don't

Chad [00:23:39]:
have anymore. Stop it. We had to do a disclaimer and everything. We have to do another one. 599.

Dave [00:23:49]:
We just raised the price.

Chad [00:23:50]:
I think yeah. That's right. Inflation. Okay. So 1234, that gets us within a few 100 years of Martin Luther and the 95 Theses. The idea of sola Christus Christus, Christ alone, really tries to reestablish Christ as the center of church life. And I know that today when after the reformation, it's still kinda sporty in some parts of the country as you alluded to with, you know, borderline Mary ship Mary worship, borderline saint worship. I have to believe that in the late 1400 and early 1500 after the plague and after, you know, basically close to a 1000 years of so called dark ages or middle ages, whatever we want, medieval times, this stuff had to be off the charts.

Chad [00:24:40]:
Right? So yeah. So, again, a lot of the reading that I did on this, kinda classifies Christ alone as like a rejection. You would say correction or clarification of the veneration of Mary and the saints, and relics and really an attempt to refocus

Dave [00:25:02]:
Mhmm.

Chad [00:25:02]:
On the sufficiency of Christ. I don't know if we wanna talk about that a little bit, but

Dave [00:25:08]:
You wanna talk about modern versions of that, or are you talking about ancient versions of that?

Chad [00:25:12]:
I'm not sure. Anything. I'm up for whatever.

Dave [00:25:17]:
It's your chance to

Greg [00:25:18]:
have in mind, Dave? Yeah.

Dave [00:25:19]:
It's your chance to go after me, sir.

Greg [00:25:20]:
Ancient word you said ancient and modern. What do you mean?

Chad [00:25:23]:
We're talking about Christ alone as it emerges in the 95 theses at the start of

Dave [00:25:28]:
Okay. Yep. So Yeah.

Chad [00:25:31]:
Why why did Martin Luther need to have the, you know, the 95 theses? Why was Christ alone emphasized so so thoroughly even though there's not, like, one? Well, you've read all 95, right, at this point?

Dave [00:25:47]:
It's been a long time, but, yes, I have. Okay. I'll I I wanna I wanna scan them over again before our next step. But, yeah, I I I have read through all of them. It really why was it necessary? It was necessary because of just how off track the church was in the west. Luther compares the church to the Whore of Babylon. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave [00:26:12]:
And because it was so corrupt and so off message that it I forget what book it was. I think 1525. You know what's the book I'm talking about.

Chad [00:26:22]:
I will have the book in a second.

Dave [00:26:24]:
Yeah. He's basically saying, look. We have we have so lost our way. We've so added layers on top of the gospel that we need to get back to. Hey. There's no under there's no other name by which man must be saved. I mean, to me, that's kind of the thumbnail of historical reason why. It must have been a must have been a a letter.

Chad [00:26:50]:
Why, Dave, are you talking about on the Babylonian Captivity of the Church?

Dave [00:26:54]:
Yes.

Chad [00:26:55]:
I thought you were.

Dave [00:26:56]:
Yes. Thank you. It wasn't the Whore of Babylon.

Chad [00:26:58]:
And I and I did and I didn't just spend 10 minutes looking it up. My chat, you're so well read.

Dave [00:27:04]:
I am. Can't believe you knew that right off the top of

Chad [00:27:06]:
your head. Amazing, isn't it? Almost unbelievable.

Dave [00:27:11]:
Yeah. So, anyway, the the church was just so captured by false doctrine from from Luther's perspective that the return to the simplicity of, okay, what is what is the absolute core of the gospel, Who is our object of faith? And it's and do we need all these extra layers? And in particular, do we need the church? Is the church the vessel of salvation? Is it have you ever heard of the the nave of the church? No. It's if you look at church architecture, there's a nave. A lot of the terms that you use in the architecture of the church are nautical sounding. It's because the picture is the church is the ship that gets you to heaven. So you have the nave, right, which is kinda sounds like navy spelled that nave, p e. Anyway, yeah. So we we actually our library was part of a that the Bible college I went to was a former Mhmm.

Dave [00:28:07]:
Catholic monastery that was purchased in the sixties. Used to be a training center for Catholic missionaries to the to Asia. And so our library was literally the the old church, and we had the old altar was still in there, and, you know, they'd done a lot of iconoclastic work over the years, but in the but they had left up a lot of the cool stuff. Yeah. Anyway, so we we had some pretty cool things that we could see from church history just going to our library.

Greg [00:28:36]:
So if

Dave [00:28:36]:
you look

Greg [00:28:36]:
in the front of a lot of older churches, it's not just a straight wall. There's there's all these parts going back, and all of these little walls make all these little corners. And when all these corners come up to the peaked roof Mhmm. They're making arrows. So when you look up in the front of a church, you see all of these arrows that are pointing to the heavens. So that's one of the nautical things that pointing.

Dave [00:29:04]:
Yeah. And then there's lots of cross shape. Like, the a lot of the chapels have a cross shape to them where you have 2 side rooms that come off partway through it, and then right around the intersection of the cross is where you have the altar. Mhmm. And then above the altar is a gold dome because that's where God resides. Right? So, yeah, very fascinating. And I already told you, I think, a few weeks ago that there's a lot of there's a lot of key imagery in the building because Peter was given to the keys of the kingdom and all that.

Chad [00:29:38]:
The kingdom. Yeah.

Dave [00:29:39]:
You know, papal authority. So all

Chad [00:29:41]:
of the symbology is reinforcing you need to come here Mhmm.

Dave [00:29:46]:
To be found. Is in the church. Yeah. Even even think about think about even this, stained glass windows. Yeah. Stained glass windows cannot be enjoyed from the outside. You really only see stained glass windows being beautiful from the inside of the church, and that's very, very specifically philosophically designed that way. Mhmm.

Dave [00:30:08]:
So, anyway, the the church was the vessel. Yeah. Right? And there was no salvation outside the church. And that's why even today when programs like on Catholic television or you hear Catholic apologists, they talk about people coming home. Right. Because the church is the mothership. It's the home. Mhmm.

Dave [00:30:27]:
And people who go off and join other churches have left home, and there is no salvation outside of the Catholic church. And so coming home is a big deal Mhmm. Because you've actually got a chance to get to heaven.

Chad [00:30:42]:
The idea of Christ alone does a lot to to really cement Protestant values around the idea of direct accessibility of Christ, through faith, prayer, and scripture. Right? I mean, this this kind of takes the shackles off of us. We don't have to be in this one place at this one time anymore to to commune with God, to to have access to Christ. Right?

Dave [00:31:09]:
Right. Because we have one mediator.

Greg [00:31:11]:
Yeah. Yeah. So salvation isn't through church. It's not through an institution. It's not through works. It's not through acts. It's not through a man. It's not through, an organization.

Greg [00:31:21]:
It's not through anything. It's through Christ alone. There you go. And and that's what we really need to dive into now, what that means and what that looks like.

Dave [00:31:31]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Chad [00:31:32]:
I have a couple of verses, the easy ones. Yeah. Go for it. So John 146, Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.

Greg [00:31:47]:
Mhmm.

Chad [00:31:48]:
It's pretty straightforward. It really is.

Greg [00:31:50]:
So like I said, these are these So what was the precursor to that? Like, what what's going on right before that?

Chad [00:31:55]:
Oh, I don't know. Well, John 14:4 was in there.

Dave [00:32:01]:
Yep. John's John's hard to John's its own beast, so you gotta

Greg [00:32:05]:
In my father's house, there are many rooms.

Chad [00:32:07]:
Yes. Yes. Talking to Thomas.

Dave [00:32:10]:
Passover and Uproot.

Chad [00:32:12]:
Yep. Yep. That's it. So

Greg [00:32:15]:
I go to I'm going in to and I go to prepare a place for you

Dave [00:32:20]:
Yep.

Greg [00:32:20]:
If it were not so or yeah. In my father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go, I'm coming back for you Mhmm. As I jingle all the cords in the room. And and Thomas says, how would we know? And do you have it there? Because I don't have the whole thing memorized.

Dave [00:32:42]:
Oh, okay. Alright. Alright. Alright. Glad you said rooms, though, because use some translation say I

Greg [00:32:46]:
got a mansion up over the

Chad [00:32:49]:
hilltop. Alright. So I'm going to go ahead and put this in context because context manager.

Greg [00:32:56]:
And Mason over hilltop is public domain. We don't need to worry about that. You can leave

Chad [00:32:59]:
it in if you want. Will do. We'll do John 14 1 through 7. I was like There

Greg [00:33:06]:
you go.

Chad [00:33:07]:
Don't let your heart be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me. This is Jesus speaking. In my father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I'm going to prepare a place for you? If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come again and take you, to myself so that where I am, you may be also. You know the way to where I am going. Lord, Thomas said, we don't know where you're going. How can we know the way? Jesus told them, I am the way, the truth, and the life.

Chad [00:33:41]:
No one comes to the father except through me. If you know me, you will also know my father. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.

Greg [00:33:51]:
So I love this verse this passage because they're they're anxious because Jesus has been talking about leaving them Yeah. That he's gonna go. And Jesus is giving them some assurances that his going he's he's going to come back. He's giving them the assurance that he's preparing a place for them, that there is something

Chad [00:34:12]:
Mhmm.

Greg [00:34:12]:
That there's something that is more. He's giving them assurance not to be anxious and not to worry. And and they say, how do we know? Like, how do we know where you're going? How do we know? And Jesus lays it out and says, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. It it's clear. It's it's as clear as it can be. I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.

Greg [00:34:39]:
No one. There's no other way. Mhmm. And Jesus makes this exclusive claim over and over and over again, and and the New Testament makes this exclusive claim over and over again. And this exclusive claim is at odds with the claim of every other religion. Like, you see the bumper sticker that says coexist? You can't coexist when everybody's making contradictory statements. Right. You can't.

Greg [00:35:08]:
We can be nice to each other.

Dave [00:35:10]:
Well, Well, it depends on what you mean by coexist. But yeah. Yeah. I agree.

Greg [00:35:13]:
There there is only one way. There's only one way. And I think one of the one of the great things that that's in here is is at the end when Jesus says, if you had known me, you would have known my father also. From now on, you do know him and have seen him. And this is a mind blowing statement because, like, the idea that they have seen the father, that they would have seen God Right.

Dave [00:35:40]:
And Jesus Especially in light of the old testament.

Greg [00:35:42]:
Yeah. Light

Dave [00:35:42]:
of the Old Testament.

Greg [00:35:43]:
The Old Testament, no one has seen the Father. And wait a minute, Jesus is saying if if you've known me, you have known the Father. And we're gonna see that unfold a little bit more today, at least in the passage that I'm gonna talk about later on. Jesus is the revelation of God. Mhmm. He Hebrews talks about that. All of all of scripture talks about that. Jesus is the revelation of God, and we know God through Jesus, and, we know salvation through Jesus.

Dave [00:36:12]:
So acts 4 12, in in the context there, Peter and, John had been arrested, and they're called before the, thinks it's a scribes and the Pharisees that arrest him. In in verse 12, they say this, and there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under which under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved. And, of course, they're talking about Jesus Christ of Nazareth. So it's pretty straightforward. It's not the church. It's not a saint. No one can intercede for us. No one can get us any extra grace.

Dave [00:36:53]:
It was one name under heaven by which we must be saved. Do you mind if I

Chad [00:36:57]:
do the next one? And then you guys can Yeah. Take off like you always do with good stuff.

Greg [00:37:05]:
Good stuff.

Dave [00:37:06]:
Chad said it first.

Chad [00:37:07]:
I did. I did. First Timothy 2:5. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus. We want a context for this one too?

Greg [00:37:19]:
Well, I think the context for that is the the old testament. Yeah. And you you've got the whole sacrificial system, the temple, the tabernacle, the then the temple, and the whole priestly system that's set up. And this whole time, everybody the like, they're bringing their offerings, and they're going through the high priest. And then once a year, the high priest, on the day of atonement, makes the offering on behalf of all of Israel. And then this high priest is the mediator between God and man. And and now all of their 100 and 100 and 100 of years of history, and that has now changed. And, and it's saying that there is now, there is one, sorry, what's the verse again? There is one God and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ.

Greg [00:38:10]:
Mhmm. It's not this high priest that that's been doing this. That was just that was just a picture of what was to come. There's always been something better to come, and that something better is Jesus Christ. Mhmm. And salvation is only through that one man, the mediator, Jesus Christ.

Dave [00:38:28]:
Yeah. Because He is our priest King. Right? He's a better high priest, and he's the only one we need, which really begs the question then, why do you feel the need to have other intercessors for you? Direct access to the father through the superior high priest and king Jesus Christ. Right? Do we need Mary? No. Do we need saints? No. We we don't have to ask somebody to go to Jesus for us. We don't have to ask somebody to go to God for us. That's why we pray to the father in Jesus' name.

Dave [00:39:00]:
We don't pray to Jesus. We pray to the father in Jesus' name.

Chad [00:39:03]:
When we ask why we want all these mediators back after Jesus says and scripture reveals, he is the way, the truth, and life. He is the mediator. He is everything. He's the only way. Suddenly, we're free of all that, but it's in our nature to want to be slaves. And so much like the Israelites after they left Egypt, 15 minutes up the road, they're like, we should go back and be slaves. We had

Dave [00:39:30]:
food then.

Chad [00:39:31]:
Let's do that. Yep. Yeah.

Greg [00:39:33]:
Yeah. It's in the nature to be slaves. It's in the nature to it's in our nature to question, did God really say? Is that enough?

Dave [00:39:41]:
Yeah.

Greg [00:39:41]:
And it's in our nature to want to be God and to be in control and to say, yeah. I don't think God quite has it right. I I wanna be in control and do it my way. I think I know better than God. I think I have a better way. Yeah. Which is the first commandment, you shall have no other gods before me. Yeah.

Greg [00:39:57]:
And that's the first commandment that man always wants to break Yeah. Is to say, I know a better way. Yeah. I'm gonna do it my way. Yeah. I did it my way.

Chad [00:40:10]:
And Yep. It's a music intense episode. Yeah. Well, I did not see that coming out of

Dave [00:40:15]:
that was for educational purposes.

Greg [00:40:17]:
Yeah. That was for educational purposes.

Chad [00:40:19]:
We hope you stand educated. Mhmm.

Dave [00:40:22]:
One mediator. Don't need Mary. As much as I appreciate the faith that she showed when the angel first revealed himself to her and said, you're gonna bear a child, she's like, wait. How can that be? And then she says, be it unto me as according to your word. Right? Mixing the little King James language in there from my childhood. Yeah. That and she's complimented for a great faith. I wish we had time to look at Luke 1 and 2, the parallel between Zechariah and Mary there.

Dave [00:40:48]:
There's an interesting contrast there. Mary is complimented. She asked a question like, well, how's it gonna be? I've never been with a man. How how am I gonna have a baby? But it actually Zechariah is told in language very parallel to Abraham and Sarah is told, you're going to have a child in your old age, and he didn't believe him. And there was a precedent for him. And literally that whole section where they're talking to Zechariah, that he's gonna have a baby, There's words directly from the Abraham account

Greg [00:41:21]:
Mhmm.

Dave [00:41:21]:
Being used, the Septuagint of the Abraham account being used, reminding us that, hey. There's a precedent here for Zechariah, whereas Mary has no there's no virgin birth in the Old Testament to that extent. Right? So there is Isaiah 7, but but it's not like Zechariah has Abraham to to to look back to as

Chad [00:41:41]:
an example. Well, Adam and Eve weren't born either.

Dave [00:41:44]:
No step. Just saying. That's true. All just That's true. Saying. Okay. Is that is that how you feel when I say some stuff, Greg?

Greg [00:41:56]:
I wasn't listening.

Chad [00:41:57]:
Yeah. Best thing for you. So looking through this, is there a danger of going too far the other way? Is there a is there a danger of going too far the other way and saying, I've got Jesus. I don't need church. Well I've got Jesus. I don't need anything or anyone.

Dave [00:42:12]:
Yeah. I guess from a very strict perspective, no. I don't think I don't think you can ever say enough. It's just Jesus, solos Christus. Right? But if you say, okay. Now that I'm saved, I don't need to go to church. Now that's a different issue. Right? But in terms of theologically what we're talking about with reference to salvation, there's there's no danger in overreacting and saying it's just Jesus.

Dave [00:42:36]:
But if you're talking about, okay, now that I'm a Christian, I believe in Christ alone, faith alone, grace alone. Alright. Now do I not wanna be with other believers? Yeah. There's a problem there, but it's on a different category, I would say.

Greg [00:42:50]:
Mhmm. I agree. Okay.

Dave [00:42:53]:
Hardly or not? Not gonna demand a hearty agreement. No. I agree.

Greg [00:42:57]:
Yeah. Alright.

Chad [00:42:58]:
Any other any

Greg [00:42:59]:
other thoughts?

Chad [00:43:00]:
No. I got

Dave [00:43:00]:
Oh, we got so many thoughts

Greg [00:43:02]:
about the Christ. That was yeah. It was right up right

Dave [00:43:04]:
here. Right.

Greg [00:43:05]:
Matthew chapter 11 starting in verse 25. At that time, Jesus declared, I thank you, father, lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children. Yes, father. So for such was your gracious will. So Jesus is starting off here saying, you know, God has hidden something, and he's revealed it to little children. So this is really important to to understand and break down. In verse 27, all things have been handed over to me by my father, and no one knows the son except the father, and no one knows the father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. So I think that verse 27 is one of the most important verses in the New Testament for understanding the gospel, for understanding salvation, for understanding all of this.

Greg [00:44:08]:
Because in here, Jesus is saying, like, everything has been given to him. He's he's hidden it all from the wise. He's hidden all of the truths of the gospel from from everyone who thinks that they know. He's hidden it. It's been handed over to him, and no one knows the son except the father, and no one knows the father except the son. That that there is this relationship that the 2 of them have, that all the fullness of the Father is in the Son, all the fullness of the Son is in the Father from eternity past to now, and God has imparted all of that to Jesus Christ. And and now Jesus entering the earth in human flesh, God is revealing himself to man, but it's only to the ones that he wants to reveal himself to. Dave's looking at me skeptically.

Dave [00:45:06]:
No? No? No. Not at all. I'm I'm with you.

Greg [00:45:10]:
He's he's I feel like you're looking at me with skepticism. No.

Dave [00:45:13]:
I was going, you wanna go there? I'm I'm with you. And He

Greg [00:45:18]:
says, and no one knows the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. And then in verse 28, He says, come to me all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. So it's like all of the all of the people who have labored, they they, they have struggled. He's about to give them rest. What is he gonna give them rest from? Verse 29, take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. Take My yoke, it is easy, and my burden is light. Jesus here is revealing that everything has been hidden from the wise, that he is God's revelation to the people, that he's only going to reveal himself to the ones that that he chooses, and that's who the Father has chosen, and that He is going to give people rest, and He is going to give them His low yoke, which is easy. This is talking about salvation, that those who will believe in His work on the cross will receive forgiveness, that the work that he did, the work that Jesus did will be given to them, that they've done nothing.

Greg [00:46:48]:
And and I talked about this last week about the the wretched, the wretched person, blessed are the poor in spirit. The wretched person reaches out their hand knowing that they have absolutely nothing. And and that's the picture here of of the little children who take his yoke. They they can't do anything. There is nothing that they can do, and Jesus gives them eternal life, because he's done it all. And I wanna jump over then because people say that, like, Christ alone, that sounds so narrow. Like, you Jesus bible people, you just sound so narrow all the time with your Christianity. So I wanna look at Colossians chapter 1.

Greg [00:47:29]:
K. Okay? So now through the magic of video editing or my nimble fingers, we'll get there very quickly. Colossians chapter 1 verse 15. Talking of Jesus, it says, he is the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him, all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him and through him and for him, and he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. He is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in him he might have might be preeminent. For in him, all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Greg [00:48:35]:
So this is talking about Jesus, about him being the firstborn of all creation, that that he's preeminent in everything, that by Him, everything that was made has been made. There is nothing that exists without Jesus. There is nothing that continues to exist without Him holding it together. Atoms are held together by Him. Galaxies are held together by Him. Human bodies are held together by Him. Every person that breathes, breathes because of him. The earth spins on its axis because of him.

Greg [00:49:13]:
Thrones, dominions, rulers, authorities, all things exist because of him. Okay?

Dave [00:49:21]:
Preach.

Greg [00:49:21]:
What's happening in China, what's happening in Ukraine, what's happening in the United States, in Mexico, everywhere in the world, he's controlling it all. He has absolute control. We get worried. We fret because we think something. He is sovereign over it all. More than that, he is the head of the body of the church. He's the head of the church. Mhmm.

Greg [00:49:44]:
He is intimately involved in each one of our lives. For in him, all of the fullness of God was pleased to dwell. Every every bit of the fullness of the deity of God, this incredible miracle of of God putting on flesh and walking on earth, fully God and fully man, so that he could reconcile men to himself and and doing it on a cross. K? This isn't Jesus being narrow. It is because he is so great, there is no room for anything else. So when we say Christ alone, it's not it's not a narrow thing. There's just not room for anything else. There's not room for Mohammed.

Greg [00:50:27]:
There's not room for Joseph Smith. There's not room for Hinduism. There's not room for anything else but Christ alone because nothing else works, and nothing else fits. That's all I got, Dave.

Dave [00:50:40]:
Is that all? That was good. That's all. Preach, man. No doubt. Yeah. That was good stuff.

Greg [00:50:45]:
I got a good stuff from Dave.

Dave [00:50:47]:
We can end.

Greg [00:50:47]:
Thank you for listening. Get Catholic to America.

Dave [00:50:52]:
Yeah. I don't know if we wanna go there, but maybe we can just talk through it real quick without reading through it. But I I think fascinating to me is Jesus as the priest king that is a priest forever. Yeah. And so Psalm 110 talks about the fact that David's Lord, that's the Messiah, that's greater than David, is going to be a priest forever according to God's oath. And he's not gonna be a Levitical priest because he's from the line of Judah. Mhmm. He's going to be a Melchizedekian priest.

Dave [00:51:24]:
And Melchizedek is this really obscure character from Genesis 14, and Abraham has a nephew that gets Lot, right, that gets kidnapped. And he gets together an army of 400, and he go chase him down. And on the way back from winning the war, he stops by this obscure out of the blue character called Melchizedek, and the name Melech Zedek is king of righteousness. And he's the king of Salem, which also means a king of peace. So this Melchizedek is this high priest of God, and Psalm 110 has this prophetic statement saying God has God has promised that the son of David, the Messiah, is gonna be this great high priest, and he's not gonna be a a Levitical priest. He's going to be a priest of the new covenant, and the new covenant priest is Melchizedek or the is Jesus in the line of Melchizedek. And then Hebrews chapter 7 goes in all this detail correlating Psalm 110 and and Hebrews, and he basically says the limitation and why the new new covenant priesthood of Melchizedek is so much superior is that you have a king priest, excuse me, who will live on forever, where death prevented the Levitical priesthood from serving forever. And we have this eternal priest who is at the right hand of the father interceding for us based on a better covenant.

Dave [00:52:55]:
And and so that's why we don't need another mediator because we have the eternal king priest Jesus who literally advocates for us at the right hand of the father. So we don't and we go directly through him to the father, so we don't need anybody else. We got through that pretty quickly. I was pretty happy with that. Mhmm. Yeah. But I'm gonna say it. Good stuff.

Dave [00:53:16]:
Good stuff.

Greg [00:53:18]:
Yeah. That's, like, 6 good stuffs today.

Dave [00:53:20]:
I've only said one just for

Greg [00:53:21]:
the record. That was the second time you said it. Judge's ruling?

Chad [00:53:24]:
That is the second time you said it.

Dave [00:53:25]:
That's it. When did I say it?

Chad [00:53:26]:
The first time.

Greg [00:53:27]:
When I was done talking, you said good stuff. Oh, okay. Like, 3 minutes ago too, Dave. I said preach. And then then you said

Chad [00:53:34]:
because you yeah. You actually did.

Dave [00:53:35]:
Yeah. Alright. Leave that leave this in so you can confirm my memory problems. Okay. Yep.

Chad [00:53:41]:
All part of

Dave [00:53:42]:
the We already confirmed it at the beginning of the episode. You forget? Oh. I'm just gonna heck I forget everything. Can we all get along? I think we're just gonna have to put a moratorium on memory jokes. Yeah. I wouldn't remember the moratorium.

Chad [00:53:58]:
I was gonna say,

Greg [00:53:58]:
we'll just do them anyway.

Dave [00:54:02]:
I'm kidding. Do we some other stuff we could talk about, but we also wanna keep the episode manageable.

Greg [00:54:09]:
Yeah. What other stuff?

Dave [00:54:12]:
Well, I think we could talk about modern attempts to replace Christ. That that might be an interesting one, but I don't I don't know if To replace? Christ. I think I think the the kind of modern Christian attempt to say you don't really need to believe in Jesus. There there's this move to say, look. As long as you embrace some sort of God, that's what you need, Or there's even the this notion of, well, if people have never heard the gospel, then they get a pass. They get a pass.

Chad [00:54:48]:
The CS Lewis kind of thing.

Greg [00:54:50]:
Yeah. I think maybe this is something for a different episode if we're talking about

Dave [00:54:53]:
that. Yeah.

Greg [00:54:55]:
Yeah. You can say in Christ alone, but but who is the Jesus that you say you believe? Mhmm. Yeah. Because your definition of Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible.

Dave [00:55:06]:
Right. Because the Jesus of the

Greg [00:55:08]:
Bible said hard things. Like, did we ever save that link about the Jesus saying hard things? It was in our text thread, but

Chad [00:55:16]:
Oh. I know where to

Greg [00:55:17]:
go back and get it from.

Chad [00:55:18]:
Okay. Yeah. Because I

Greg [00:55:19]:
think we need to do an episode on that.

Chad [00:55:21]:
Yeah. Resurface that, and I'll I'll make sure it gets in the list.

Dave [00:55:24]:
Yeah. Just to go along with what you were just saying there, Greg, about the Jesus that you worship is different. Fair warning. Read your kids' bible stories because recently, I was exposed to a bible story about Jesus' baptism by, you know, John the baptizer. And the book said, I need to get baptized to have my sins forgiven. Now this is Jesus saying this. According to

Greg [00:55:48]:
Where did that book come from?

Dave [00:55:49]:
I can't remember off the top of my head, but it was a it was a legit book for sale with just, like with heresy. Teach your children heresy.

Chad [00:56:01]:
Yeah. There's, like, layers to that onion. You can peel off. Yeah. So thanks for joining us at Catfish Ministries. We always appreciate your time. We appreciate you listening. We love doing this, and we love being able to spread God's word.

Chad [00:56:13]:
So we thank you for that. If you have any questions or comments or concerns or ideas, please feel free to reach us at the fish at catfishministries.com. Once again, that's the fish at catfishministries.com. Yeah.

Dave [00:56:28]:
But I don't think we've had a follow-up question emailed to us yet, have we? I don't we've had some follow-up suggestions.

Chad [00:56:34]:
Yeah. But we haven't had a

Dave [00:56:35]:
But I mean, like, a because I would love to do a question and answer episode. Yeah. Just kind of like, hey. Just give us random questions or follow-up questions. Yeah. And if we could get a bunch of those, then we could spend an episode responding to q and a Right. Or follow-up q and a. Right.

Dave [00:56:53]:
That'd be awesome. That'd be cool.

Chad [00:56:55]:
A whole new way to catfish. Get catfished in America. Thanks for joining us at Catfish Ministries. We hope you learned something with us and maybe had a laugh or 2 while you're at it. Please subscribe and leave a 5 star review. If you really like what you heard and wanna help us make more of these, look us up on buy me a coffee.com. We can't wait to talk to you again next time. This is Chad for Greg and Dave signing off and saying remember America, it's always a great day to get catfished.