The Catfishing of America (A Timely Episode from July 2, 2024)

The Catfish Boys take some time in the current events / political arena to examine the fallout of the June 28 Biden/Trump debate.  It was very apparent during that debate that many of the theories of Biden's cognitive decline were more factual than many media outlets let on.  We put the whole thing into a Biblical perspective.  Has America been catfished?  Has America been catfished before?  What's a believer to do in the modern political climate?

Thank you for listening!

To inquire about advertising with Catfish Ministries, LLC send an email to thefish@catfishministires.com 

Transcript

Greg [00:00:02]:
Greatest. Like like, when Jesus says, truly, truly, I say to you, he's just saying, believe me.

Dave [00:00:09]:
That's Stan. Just how many how many Trump references can you make, man? That was awesome. It's at least 3 like that, man.

Greg [00:00:52]:
You know what yesterday was? What was yesterday?

Dave [00:00:54]:
Canada Day. Oi. Oi. That just means 3 days 2 days before 4th July.

Chad [00:01:03]:
So the first

Dave [00:01:04]:
Was that recorded? Because that needs to stay on. That is record you are. This little segment, that needs to stay on.

Chad [00:01:12]:
Yes. The 2 +1. Okay. Yeah.

Dave [00:01:16]:
Good good job, dude. I'm just saying. Canada is just a reminder that 4th July is around the corner.

Greg [00:01:28]:
Oh, I

Dave [00:01:28]:
love your country.

Greg [00:01:29]:
Mhmm.

Dave [00:01:29]:
It's great to drive through if I wanna get to New York quicker. I did go to Quebec with my wife, though, on one of our anniversaries. Did you? Yeah. We drove up through Montreal Mhmm. And then went to Quebec. I'm sorry. Are you yeah. No.

Dave [00:01:48]:
I liked it. I I learned what fromage is.

Greg [00:01:52]:
It's cheese. Yeah. Just like your jokes.

Dave [00:01:56]:
Wait. My jokes are cheesy? No. Oh, we got it. But how would you say fromage in French? Like truly not from you wouldn't call it fromaggi, would you?

Greg [00:02:08]:
Something like that. Fromaggile.

Chad [00:02:12]:
You're drifting into Italian. From Agile.

Dave [00:02:17]:
Alright. Trivia.

Chad [00:02:18]:
Okay. Trivia.

Dave [00:02:18]:
What do Japanese and Italian languages have in common? Not a joke. Serious Okay. Linguistical thing. Linguistical.

Chad [00:02:29]:
I do not know. They have

Dave [00:02:30]:
the exact same vowel sounds. Yeah.

Chad [00:02:40]:
Interesting. So

Dave [00:02:41]:
So they don't vary.

Chad [00:02:42]:
How did you know the Japanese vowel sounds?

Dave [00:02:47]:
You just died to push that button. What button? I don't know what button.

Greg [00:02:51]:
I don't know.

Chad [00:02:52]:
But how do

Dave [00:02:52]:
you do that? I grew up there as a missionary kid. Alright. I did that just for you.

Greg [00:02:58]:
Behind the button. Hi.

Dave [00:02:59]:
Did that. It's a little it's a little cleaner. Yes. It's probably. I I mean, I've cleaned it up. It's the same button.

Chad [00:03:04]:
It's the same it's the same button, but the sound that comes out of

Dave [00:03:07]:
the button, I think it was I liked it. I liked it. No. I think it was the same sound that I heard last time.

Greg [00:03:12]:
Okay.

Chad [00:03:12]:
Alright. And, hopefully I

Dave [00:03:14]:
I want a go time, reference, though.

Greg [00:03:17]:
Okay.

Dave [00:03:17]:
I I don't think people the first time we use it, people really knew it wasn't me saying that.

Greg [00:03:21]:
Wow.

Chad [00:03:21]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:03:22]:
So what is this button that you have there?

Chad [00:03:24]:
So this button is Dave's go time button as originally spake on our Okay. Right. Spoken on our

Greg [00:03:32]:
so, like, when Dave's been in the car for a really long time and he pulls up at the gas station, and he, like, jumps out really fast, and Joanna's like, what are you doing, Dave? He says

Dave [00:03:43]:
If it's go time, it's go time. There you go.

Chad [00:03:45]:
There we go.

Dave [00:03:46]:
Nice setup, Greg. Mhmm. Yeah. Alright. If it's go time, it's go time.

Chad [00:03:50]:
That was live, Dave. This is prerecorded Dave.

Dave [00:03:54]:
If it's go time, it's go time.

Greg [00:03:56]:
Okay. Subtle differences.

Dave [00:03:57]:
There are. It's not quite as buttery as my voice is today.

Chad [00:04:01]:
You sounded so much happier back

Greg [00:04:03]:
then. Buttery.

Dave [00:04:05]:
I stole that line from you. You said I had buttery smooth voice.

Greg [00:04:09]:
And then I

Dave [00:04:10]:
Not cheesy smooth voice. Velveeti cheese. Velveeta cheese. The Velveeta. Smooth. It's like Velveeta cheese. The

Chad [00:04:21]:
queso for your ear.

Dave [00:04:23]:
I don't know what that means. Wow. I know what queso means. I just didn't think it was funny. That's all I'm saying. Okay. Yeah. Fine.

Dave [00:04:33]:
Nice try.

Chad [00:04:34]:
Be that way.

Dave [00:04:35]:
Greg's been heaving lots of sighs about being lost Already. Podcasts.

Greg [00:04:39]:
Alright.

Dave [00:04:39]:
I know. Already too.

Greg [00:04:40]:
I haven't seen you in 3 weeks.

Dave [00:04:42]:
I know. You miss me?

Chad [00:04:45]:
To our listeners, this episode is being recorded after a 3 week hiatus. We prerecorded a few episodes so that you would be able to get

Dave [00:04:54]:
Dave's to miss a beat.

Chad [00:04:56]:
That's right. Get Dave's Velveeta tones in there. Velveeta.

Dave [00:05:02]:
Buttery smooth tones. Yes. I've never been accused of that just for the record.

Greg [00:05:07]:
It's been accused a lot of things, but not that.

Dave [00:05:11]:
Just there's so much I wanna say right now. I'm just gonna be good. Say it.

Greg [00:05:16]:
Nope. Nope. Okay.

Dave [00:05:19]:
I I just take such joy when I hear Greg go, oh, Dave, what Dave said. Now I want you to remember though, you you said, oh, you don't have any stones? And then I said something that was completely innocuous, and you go, the things Dave says. And that was on that's on record. That is has been recorded and posted.

Greg [00:05:43]:
I'm trying to think. The things Dave says.

Chad [00:05:46]:
Yeah. When which episode was that?

Dave [00:05:50]:
A couple back, I think.

Greg [00:05:51]:
Okay.

Dave [00:05:51]:
Yeah. Couple back. So it might have been part 4.

Greg [00:05:56]:
Okay. Yeah.

Dave [00:05:57]:
By the way, one of our listeners Mhmm. Jeff from close to us, I won't say where he's from, told us he he pointed out that he was shocked that we didn't use something, a way of saying the the 6 episodes on the 5 solas. Oh. And he pulled it from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, I believe. Here it is. He said, well, first of all, he he said the next time I preach, I I mean, he's expecting incense, but he said, the last book is subtitled the 5th book in the ever increasingly misnamed 4 book trilogy. So so we need to modify that to the 6th episode in the ever increasingly misnamed

Chad [00:06:44]:
5 episode series.

Dave [00:06:46]:
4 episode trilogy on the 5 solace.

Chad [00:06:49]:
Okay.

Dave [00:06:50]:
So that's for you, Jeff.

Greg [00:06:51]:
Okay. I that would be good.

Chad [00:06:54]:
That would be good. Next time we do a series, we will screw it up like that. I guarantee it.

Dave [00:06:58]:
Yeah. That just sounds like Hitchhiker's Guide, doesn't it?

Chad [00:07:01]:
It does. It completely does. 42.

Dave [00:07:05]:
Always. Always. If you don't know what that reference is, read the book.

Chad [00:07:09]:
Mhmm. Yeah. So tonight, we're doing a special episode. We haven't done one of these for months. It's current events episode. Something I like something I like to call the catfishing of America. Oh, no. Yeah.

Chad [00:07:27]:
Do we wanna know? Yeah. So this is July 2, 2024. Day after Canada Day. Day after Canada Day. And according to Dave, one day before Independence Day.

Dave [00:07:39]:
Did I

Greg [00:07:39]:
really say that? You did.

Chad [00:07:40]:
You did. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave [00:07:42]:
2 days before Independence Day. This is gonna be a fun episode. I could tell. We're in a we're all in a feisty mood today.

Greg [00:07:49]:
We are. We are. Love it.

Chad [00:07:51]:
So the catfishing of America. So the thing that kind of sparked this idea was the debate between president Biden and former president Trump a few nights ago.

Dave [00:08:03]:
Oh, no.

Chad [00:08:04]:
I know. Oh, no. And We're gonna go there. We are. We are. I I know I said we weren't gonna name names, but I'm naming names.

Dave [00:08:12]:
We're gonna go there. If it's go time, it's go time.

Chad [00:08:15]:
If you saw the debate, you saw something very unexpected. You saw Wait.

Greg [00:08:20]:
Wait. Some people saw something

Dave [00:08:22]:
very unexpected. Unexpected.

Chad [00:08:25]:
I think even to myself. I didn't even I mean, I didn't even think it was gonna be that bad.

Greg [00:08:31]:
Okay.

Chad [00:08:32]:
I've suspected that president Biden has had cognitive issues for a while having seen a number of people age out.

Dave [00:08:40]:
What made you think that? Oh,

Chad [00:08:45]:
a series of things. But as you look at certain news channels and you look at certain, you know, commentators that have been saying for three and a half years, he's sharp as a tack and good to go, you kinda have to start to wonder, has America been catfished? Oh. And part of me wonders, has America ever not been catfished? Because it seems like every president we get and most political figures we get end up near the end of their term, House, Senate, whatever. A series of scandals comes out, and you have to wonder, are any of these people real? So, I mean, is the media projection of them that we see on our TVs

Dave [00:09:31]:
So Are we being catfished as in is the media trying to sell a product that we okay. Now I get it.

Chad [00:09:38]:
The catfishing of America.

Dave [00:09:38]:
The catfishing of America. Yes. That's a bad catfishing.

Chad [00:09:42]:
It is. Not

Dave [00:09:43]:
what we do with good catfishing.

Chad [00:09:45]:
This is good catfishing.

Dave [00:09:48]:
No. No mistake. Yeah. Okay. Or America's misapprehension of politicians or maybe even bad expectations, are you saying?

Chad [00:10:06]:
Miss comprehension.

Dave [00:10:08]:
Okay. Purposeful or not? Or, like, maybe maybe attaching too much value to them?

Chad [00:10:14]:
I think so.

Dave [00:10:15]:
Okay. I think Like, almost like, hey. We have a human messiah. It's the next politician.

Chad [00:10:20]:
Right.

Dave [00:10:21]:
Okay.

Chad [00:10:21]:
I mean, I know in the last few days, I've seen videos on Twitter and other places of people just having absolute On on what? X.

Greg [00:10:33]:
Okay. Thank you. So sorry. Okay.

Dave [00:10:34]:
I still called just for the record.

Chad [00:10:36]:
Yeah. So I've I've seen videos of people on X and other channels just having absolute meltdowns about these political figures, some believers, some not and, you know, just so upset that the Supreme Court decided this or so upset that their favorite candidate didn't look good and it makes me sad. It really does that someone would put so much of their self worth and self value into a political figure. And again, I'll say it again, a political a projection of a political figure that isn't even real. Mhmm. You know, I mean, nobody is what they seem to be on TV. So I don't know. I thought we could discuss that a little bit and just see where it goes.

Dave [00:11:23]:
But as Christians, should we even be talking about politics? Absolutely not. No. Well, I mean, there is there is that kind of a Amish kind of a withdrawal kind of a there's there's actually a theological bent or school of thought on that that basically says as as Christians, we withdraw because we're only about God's kingdom, not about. Ah, yes. See, you know, the Lutherans Luther had called the 2 kingdoms. You have God's kingdom and man's kingdom.

Greg [00:11:54]:
Mhmm.

Dave [00:11:55]:
And Christians live in both of those kingdoms and have responsibilities in both. Yep. And then there was the more, Mennonite Anabaptist withdrawal slash Amish eventually. Notion withdrawal and not being involved in politics. You know me. I love Bible exposition and Christian worldview. So how do we, from the scriptures, defend a notion that as Christians we should be involved in political discourse or political activity?

Greg [00:12:27]:
Yeah. Or

Dave [00:12:29]:
should we just withdraw? Yeah. And we can just cut the episode now.

Chad [00:12:32]:
Yeah. We that that would be easy editing for me.

Dave [00:12:36]:
But that was much fun for us.

Chad [00:12:38]:
Give to Caesar what is Caesar and God what is God's. The end.

Dave [00:12:42]:
No. That's fair. That's that's a no. That's actually a very standard.

Greg [00:12:46]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:12:46]:
Right. That's a no. That's not I wasn't trying to insult you when I said Oh, I know. I know. I know. So banal, Jack. Real original. Oh, why don't you just quote the Bible? Yeah.

Dave [00:12:59]:
So and I I know we've talked about this passage before, but I think it's worth mentioning again. Mhmm. Philippians 127. Most translations say something like let your, conduct be worthy of the gospel, or let your lifestyle be worthy of the gospel, or I think King James had a conversation. But that actually says let your con let your conduct as a citizen be worthy of the gospel. Right. And one of the one of the ways that I've often hear that misinterpreted is that they inject chapter, late chapter 2 and 3 back into chapter 1.

Greg [00:13:34]:
Mhmm.

Dave [00:13:34]:
Because, ultimately, the book says, look, your citizenship ultimately is in heaven, but he doesn't say that until chapter 3. And before that he says, look, let your citizenship, let you let your conduct as a citizen be worthy of the gospel. And so I don't think you can read 3 back into it and say, there he's talking about heavenly citizenship, particularly with the people in Philippi

Greg [00:14:00]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:14:00]:
Who, like I said, I know we've talked about this before, but they were a really unusual situation in that city of Philippi. The the citizens of the city were actually citizens of Rome, which is a really unique thing in the world because if you lived in Asia Minor, you did not generally have Roman citizenship as a whole city state, but they did. And so people in in in Philippi had this huge kind of a self image slash pride in the fact that they were citizens. And so when Paul says, let your citizen your conduct as citizens be worthy of the gospel, I don't think they would have read that as your citizenship is in heaven. Now I think, ultimately, what he's saying is in the book is you can't think of yourself just as Roman citizens, that you have to conclude eventually and bring it back to play that you are citizens of heaven, and you can't put too much stock in your earthly citizenship. But I really struggle with the idea of saying that chapter 1 verse 27 is talking about your heavenly citizenship. Okay. And so I think there's another justification that seems pretty direct.

Dave [00:15:09]:
Like, okay. So however you appropriately do citizenship, and that depends on what kind of a country you're in. If you're a part of a representative republic, then you're do that in a gospel worthy way. If you're part of a part of a dictatorship, whatever that means Mhmm. As a citizen, you do that in a in a gospel, right, worthy way. So I I think from a Christian perspective then, sounds more like as members as Christians who are members of a representative republic, it sounds to me like we have a responsibility to represent Christ in how we think about and engage in political activity. In fact, I think it behooves us to do that, and I think that's why the west has been so different from the rest of the world. It's the only really the west is where human dignity comes from, and that comes from actually engaging your politics from a biblical perspective.

Dave [00:16:05]:
You know, the Christians who say, well, we shouldn't be involved in politics, I'm not sure you wanna really go there. Yeah. But but I think we're suffering right now because there's a dearth of it. People are too afraid because we've allowed people, whoever, to say to us what that's we don't talk about politics, and we don't talk about religion. Right. I think it's straight from Satan. He's just been able to talk our culture into saying there's 2 things you don't do in polite company, talk religion, talk politics. And I think both of those are absolutely fair game and our responsibility to be engaged with.

Greg [00:16:37]:
Yeah. So I'd like to build on that. Like, 1st Corinthians 10:31 says, whatever your hands try to do to to the glory of God, do all things to the glory of God. Mhmm. And there's this idea of, that the Puritans had of common grace that every every man, every man, woman, what you do is is part of the common grace. Like, the man who works, his work isn't just for himself. It and it's it's for the glory of God, but it it benefits his family, but it benefits other man. The work that you do, it benefits everyone around you.

Greg [00:17:15]:
And we have this notion that work is, like, some jobs are more important than others. And the lawyer, maybe that's a bad example for some of our friends. The doc you know, the physician, that's an esteemed job. The lawyer, that's an esteemed job. The chemist, that's an esteemed job. But the sanitation worker, you know, the janitor that's mopping the floors, cleaning up the bathroom, not so. Every single job has value and worth and is good for the common good. And it and it gives grace to everyone, and everybody going to work benefits everybody else.

Greg [00:17:53]:
And whatever we do, we do it to the glory of God. We're doing it to the glory of God, and it benefits us. It benefits our family, benefits everyone else. And that that includes our civic duty. And as believers, we have a responsibility primarily to the gospel, to if you're a father, a husband, to to your family, to your wife, to your children, but then also to be a good neighbor and to be a responsible citizen, to be a productive member of society. And being a productive member of society means being properly and responsibly engaged. It means knowing the laws, obeying the laws, and it means being part of the, the process in society of whatever the the government is. And in the United States, we have we have a mechanism for that.

Greg [00:18:47]:
We have a government that's set up. We have a means for electing representatives, for electing local, state, and federal government officials. We have a means for holding them responsible. So we have the privilege, the right, and the responsibility to engage in that, but also to to know and to learn and to understand the why. And that's where that's one of the problems that I think we're facing is people, not only have they just disengaged, but they've really become ignorant about it. And I don't mean ignorant in in a really insulting way. I mean, ignorant means without knowledge. And they so so many people have become completely without knowledge of of the way government is supposed to work, the way it was set up to work, what it means of what the branches of government, what their function is, where it be where their power begins, where it ends, what the separation between the different branches of government is, where they derive their power from, how far they can reach with that power.

Greg [00:20:01]:
Part of that has to do with, what we have given up to the education system. Part of that has to do with how prolific media has become over the last 40 years with the advent of cable and the 24 hour news cycle, just constantly pumping information into our homes, and and people really drinking at the fountain of that, constant news cycle. There are many people who think that this steady stream of information has given them more knowledge. But in many ways, it has made them ignorant because it has become so one-sided in what they're hearing, or it has become so calculated in what they're hearing, or, it has become so easy to engage in confirmation bias where you can just choose to listen to the things you like to reinforce your biases.

Dave [00:21:01]:
I agree with that, by the way, big time.

Greg [00:21:04]:
Yeah. Yeah. See what he

Dave [00:21:05]:
can do. That bias.

Greg [00:21:06]:
Yes. And and then

Chad [00:21:08]:
No objection.

Greg [00:21:09]:
And then with with, with corporations taking over media groups, they they control so much of their narrative, And and you can see that. You you can go online, and you can see these videos of nightly nightly newscast where they where they tell start telling a news story, and the anchor reads a line, and then they'll show another news story from a newsroom in another state and then another state. And they're reading the exact same story over and over and over and over again. And it's just this constant thing repeated. Yep. And and you're like, okay, well, they're just telling the same story. But then you start to find out that, you know, in a lot of ways, the media has lied to us.

Dave [00:21:53]:
Right.

Greg [00:21:53]:
And we're seeing that over and over and over again, that the media has lied about many, many things. In so many ways. Campaigns lie about things all the time. We've known that politicians lie. If their lips are how do you know a politician is lying if his lips are moving? Yeah. But for the media to lie, and and they they're supposed to be they talk about being defenders of the truth, and democracy dies in darkness, so media's gotta be there to defend it. But over the last year, especially, you've seen so many news stories that the media has held up that this is the truth, this is the fact, and they've been debunked. Yeah.

Greg [00:22:39]:
Mhmm. They lied about this story. Yep. They lied about this story. And and the question to ask about the media then is, did the media participate in a lie? Was the media colluding with this political figure or political party? Or is the media completely incompetent and unable to do journalism?

Dave [00:23:03]:
Right. Or is it all of the above?

Greg [00:23:05]:
Or is it all of the all of the above? And and what people need to start asking themselves is, why should we trust the media? Like, why should we believe what they say? We really need to start digging deeper. We really need to start to see them asking harder questions, than they've asked before. Because when we watch this debate and then after the debate, you saw all of these media figures in absolute panic and shock over what they saw, and a lot of people were were just saying, we've been seeing this happening for over a year now. You mean you, journalist, didn't have an inkling of suspicion about this?

Dave [00:23:54]:
Right.

Greg [00:23:54]:
Like, where was your thinking cap? What's going on? Yeah.

Chad [00:23:59]:
And I kinda blame people too. You know? Yeah. We're responsible. The consumer of the media because some of these places, they said that this candidates perfect and, you know, whatever, for years. And then you see the disaster unfold. Why do you still watch that channel?

Dave [00:24:21]:
Yeah. I

Chad [00:24:22]:
mean, they still have an audience. Yeah.

Greg [00:24:24]:
So when you talk about the catfishing of America Mhmm. On one hand, you have the media and the corporations and all these people putting forward something that isn't true, a politician or a figure that isn't what it's supposed to be. But on the other hand, you have the American American public that is hoping for something, wanting for something, longing for something, desperate for something, and they see this dream set in front of them by the media, and they're just they're like, okay. I'm gonna grab that. I'm gonna grab that hero that you put in front of me or that messiah figure that you impulsive. Person that is going to save us from they're gonna save us from the foreign power. They're gonna save us from poverty. They're gonna save us from debt.

Greg [00:25:20]:
They're gonna save us from climate catastrophe, whatever it is, they're gonna save us. Yeah. And people are people are desperate for that. And and when everything is a tragedy, when everything is urgent, when everything is a crisis, you create this impending need to be saved. Mhmm. And people just are attracted to it. Yeah. And that's why they're so easily catfished.

Dave [00:25:45]:
Yeah.

Chad [00:25:46]:
That is it. And I'm I'm drawing your connection back to something you both earlier said, what's the role of a believer in civic life?

Dave [00:25:55]:
Mhmm.

Chad [00:25:56]:
And I think folks that end up constantly looking for the next messianic figure on their TV, on their phone, on their on their tablet, whatever. Part of the reason they're doing that is they're not properly engaged as believers.

Greg [00:26:12]:
Mhmm.

Chad [00:26:13]:
Right? I mean, their faith is not where it needs to be because, I mean, I think the 3 of us are pretty level headed where, you know, if if our candidate, whoever that may be, takes a nosedive or whatever, I don't think we're gonna be crying on

Greg [00:26:29]:
I've got my I've got my bunker ready. Yeah. The oh, wait. I wasn't supposed to say that.

Dave [00:26:34]:
Right. I wanna know where this is. Where's the entrance?

Greg [00:26:37]:
I'm not telling you. That's right. You haven't earned my trust yet. You can't

Dave [00:26:41]:
Not in the circle of trust.

Greg [00:26:42]:
You don't know how many days it is till 4th July. I can't let you in.

Dave [00:26:47]:
That's for the record. It's 2.

Greg [00:26:49]:
You sure? Nope. Well, by the time everyone hears that, they're gonna be like, Dave, it was 3 weeks ago.

Chad [00:26:55]:
That's right.

Dave [00:26:55]:
It's true. I know when 14th July is. You know, our national holiday, 21st.

Chad [00:27:04]:
You know, I'm just gonna publish this on a day you don't name just to make this worse.

Dave [00:27:08]:
Be great. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, I lost my train of thought now. Wow. What a shot.

Greg [00:27:19]:
Doesn't take much.

Dave [00:27:21]:
Just make me say a string of three numbers. I'll lose my track. The stuff I self deprecate for you guys.

Chad [00:27:31]:
That's the

Greg [00:27:32]:
hack. Hey. You you wanna know, do you know what be Beethoven's favorite fruit was when he was a baby? What? No. No. No.

Dave [00:27:41]:
Oh, very nice. I guessed that. I didn't know that.

Greg [00:27:43]:
Yeah. No. No. No.

Dave [00:27:44]:
See, I did that right with

Chad [00:27:46]:
the TV?

Dave [00:27:56]:
So, I can't I can't. I lost track. It's not good. Breaking news. Teddy Grahams, the Stay Puft marshmallow man, and chocolate bunnies were consumed in a fire. S'more at 11.

Chad [00:28:10]:
I can edit that in such a way

Dave [00:28:12]:
that it's funny. That it's funny.

Greg [00:28:14]:
That it's funny.

Chad [00:28:14]:
That it's fine.

Dave [00:28:15]:
Yeah. It works. Yeah. Sent that to my daughter today. Some more at 11.

Chad [00:28:22]:
Wow.

Dave [00:28:23]:
Do you purposely not laugh at my dad jokes? Is that what it is, Greg? Or they just No. It's really not funny. It's part of my delivery.

Chad [00:28:29]:
No. It's it's a charm. It's part of delivery. It's part it's part of the thing. Stick. Yeah. There there's entire YouTube videos out there of people, yeah, about people telling each other dad jokes and then you I've

Dave [00:28:40]:
seen them. That's where I got some of my dad jokes.

Greg [00:28:43]:
Okay. Our listeners are now thinking they have such ADHD. It's incredible. Alright. Back to the topic.

Dave [00:28:51]:
Back to the topic. Yeah. So speaking of just a good illustration of that messianic impulse. So I'm in seminary back in the day, and this was during the the Bush, Clinton election.

Greg [00:29:06]:
More accurately, it would be Bush Clinton pro.

Dave [00:29:10]:
Yeah. Fair. Fair.

Greg [00:29:11]:
He was the spoiler.

Dave [00:29:12]:
No. No. That's true, and it probably ruined it. But Yeah. When Clinton won Mhmm. You would have thought that my seminary classmates needed antidepressants. I mean, it was like it was like Eeyore land when we walked into class, and my Old Testament prophet just without saying a word just pulls out the book of Daniel, reads a segment, and he goes, God is still in the throne no matter who the US person is. Yeah.

Dave [00:29:43]:
And everybody was like, oh, yeah. It was just really fun to just see how just one quick little reminder to we tend, even Christians, we tend to put too much stock in who's in charge politically. Now does it matter on one level? Yes. Absolutely. We have to write conduct ourselves as citizens in a manner worthy of gospel, but whoever is in charge, Nebuchadnezzar, Clinton, Reagan, Trump, Biden, whoever is in charge, God's ultimately on the throne, and Christ is Lord. So what do we have to worry about in the long run? So here's my question because we've been told by many, many people that there is no place for politics from the pulpit. And I'm leaving that phrase very, very undefined on purpose because that's how it's said, but that's used to as a blanket to cover anything. So if there's anything political about any topic that should never be mentioned from the pulpit, especially on a Sunday morning.

Dave [00:30:55]:
Mhmm. So what do you guys think about that one?

Greg [00:31:00]:
I suppose Jesus shouldn't have said, render to Caesar, but it's Caesar's.

Dave [00:31:06]:
Okay. Yeah. So so I get what you're saying, but there may be a few of our listeners that don't get what you're saying out there. What do you mean? Put some put some meat to the on those bones?

Greg [00:31:18]:
Jesus said something political.

Dave [00:31:20]:
Right.

Greg [00:31:21]:
Jesus said pay your taxes. And what is God's you know, Jesus said something political.

Dave [00:31:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. So now we have tax laws in the United States. A lot of churches are afraid of losing their tax status.

Greg [00:31:38]:
Right.

Dave [00:31:39]:
Yeah. There's those that fear for tax status and say, okay. We can't talk about politics from the pulpit. How do you handle that? Do you ignore him?

Greg [00:31:52]:
Yeah. I I think that you can you can talk about issues of justice because the Bible teaches about justice. Mhmm. You can talk about issues of life because the Bible speaks clearly about life and the sanctity of life. You can talk about issues of of sexuality because the Bible clearly teaches about that. What you should not be doing But not on Sunday morning. Right? Well, is it in the Bible?

Dave [00:32:23]:
I think so.

Greg [00:32:23]:
Were you exhorted to preach the word in season, out to season?

Dave [00:32:26]:
The whole counsel of God. Yeah. Yeah.

Greg [00:32:28]:
So And what? Probably finances? Probably on Sunday morning.

Dave [00:32:32]:
Yeah. Okay.

Greg [00:32:33]:
So so, you know, that's that's in the Bible. You're preaching the whole counsel of God's word. Mhmm. You're doing that, And and if you're doing that on a like, if that's your your method, your the way that you do it, then it shouldn't be an issue because as the issues come up in the scripture, you're going to address them. Mhmm. I think that, like, every 4 years when you get to September, October, you start giving, quote, political sermons that that that's problematic. Yeah. But you would be teaching clearly.

Greg [00:33:08]:
When it is a problem is when you say, the Bible says this, therefore, you need to vote for candidate x. You can't be doing that because that's a violation of of the tax code. Well, you know, you could, and you'd lose your tax status. You know, you have every And

Dave [00:33:26]:
on on at a certain level, if it's a biblical issue

Chad [00:33:30]:
Mhmm.

Dave [00:33:30]:
That then I would think it might be worth losing your tax status over.

Greg [00:33:34]:
And and what you can But that's

Dave [00:33:36]:
not the main idea.

Greg [00:33:37]:
Now to be within the confines of the law, what you can do, for example, on the issue of abortion, you can say, we believe that the Bible teaches this, that in that every life is sacred, and we believe that to take a life is wrong, and we believe that abortion is wrong. And, so we believe that that we should support life in every way that's possible, and that's why we support these life supporting ministries, life affirming ministries in our community. And that's why and we want you to know that this candidate that's running supports legislation that's in line with our biblical values. And this candidate here, opposes legislation or opposes legislation that supports our biblical values, you can say that.

Dave [00:34:25]:
Yes. I agree. And you think it's still it's appropriate?

Greg [00:34:29]:
It it could be appropriate. I I, at times, I think you need to I think you need to consider very carefully, when it's worth doing that. Mhmm.

Dave [00:34:41]:
I agree.

Greg [00:34:42]:
But I just I think that you need to be clearly teaching things Yeah. As they come along, and and then if you're if you're clearly teaching scripture, and building precept upon precept, and and that's what you're doing, then I don't think you need to do those things directly with your congregation.

Dave [00:35:05]:
Sure. Yeah. So if you're teaching a Christian worldview Correct. So and when I say that, I don't mean well, what I mean is as you're teaching, you apply the scriptures to your culture, and you, basically a biblical worldview just means you have good theology in your brain, and you understand how it applies to your life. So making that connection between biblical truth and theological issues, I. E, cultural issues is completely appropriate. And, perhaps, one of the problems in the modern church is that we've so gone away from politics or what we call politics instead of Christian worldview that we've we've created a whole host of of of either believers or church attenders who really don't understand the biblical worldview. And because of that, there's a lot lots of really interesting I've seen a lot of Christians say some really interesting things about who they will and who they won't support.

Dave [00:36:16]:
And as you were saying earlier, there seems to be a true true ignorance in the in the non pejorative sense of that word, just true ignorance of what the Bible teaches on the topic and this desire to stay that way. And that's the desire to stay that way is what bothers me, But I think that's a direct, you know, consequence of I think that's a direct consequence of failing to deal with the Bible in an expository way and dealing with issues. And I I can't tell you how many times in my life, different places, different churches, I've heard people say, well, we don't do politics. And because of that, they won't talk about the sanctity of human life. They won't talk about sexual issues from the pulpit except adultery. You know, it it's

Greg [00:37:13]:
really interesting. The church acquiesces so much to the world. When we go back to what we were talking about when we concluded our 6 part series on the 5 solas when we talked about Ad Fontes, the Christian humanism. There was this revival in the church, and the Christian humanism was this spark for learning all things, and the church was the center of it. The church was was the center of learning about the humanities of of of all things and and the betterment of the of of man, and it was all bible centered.

Dave [00:37:54]:
And Elegy is the queen

Greg [00:37:56]:
of the science? The yeah. Yeah. The yeah. And the church has just given up everything. The church used to, care for the sick and the poor. We relegated that to the government now, easily. And in relegating that to the government, now the government dictates how we're how the church is supposed to care for the sick and the poor by way of taxes and tax policy and all of those things. And if we don't support this candidate and their tax policy, then we're just heartless and cruel.

Greg [00:38:30]:
Right. Because we relegated that to government. I can't

Dave [00:38:34]:
believe you're so callous. So callous and heartless. And the same But you're making a great

Greg [00:38:40]:
And and the same with educate education. The church used to be a center of education. And I don't mean Christian schools. I just mean, through through the centuries, the churches was the center of education. And, you know, there never used to be such a thing as public schools. People used to teach their own families, and and peep this is remarkable. People learned. Yeah.

Greg [00:39:09]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:39:10]:
No. The reading rates were better. People learned Pre public school days.

Greg [00:39:13]:
People learned sciences. People learned art Mhmm. Without a public education system. This is insane. I know. But we acquiesced, and we relegated this to the government. And now the government dictates everything about it and everything about the policy and everything about the money. And and now now just to be clear, I'm not arguing the good nor the bad of it, but now we have to support this candidate or this candidate on their approach to education, whereas that was never an issue for the church before.

Greg [00:39:53]:
Right. Right. And on on issue after issue after issue after issue, we just keep, abdicating our responsibility to government. And turning it over to government when it used to be the church was the leader in all of these things. Yep.

Dave [00:40:13]:
The Sunday school movement started educating child factory workers because they couldn't go to school because they were in factories. And on Sunday, they had the day off. So Sunday school wasn't just Bible stories. It was teaching them to read so they could so that they could read their Bibles

Greg [00:40:30]:
Right.

Dave [00:40:31]:
Among other things. Yeah. Yeah.

Chad [00:40:33]:
Yeah. So going back to your question, how do you handle someone that says don't preach politics? Mhmm. Or don't don't be political in church?

Dave [00:40:41]:
Mhmm.

Chad [00:40:45]:
How? The Bible says so much about so many things. Mhmm. If you were to only speak about the things that don't touch your public life while we're in while we're in this world as as citizens of our country before we're citizens of heaven. Right. I don't see how you preach out of the Bible with any with any application to your life

Dave [00:41:10]:
or to

Chad [00:41:10]:
how you interact with It

Dave [00:41:11]:
all be completely personal.

Chad [00:41:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Mhmm. What is not political? And then the other question is, why does that person not want to be political? What's pushing them to ask that? Why are they uncomfortable with this type of teaching would be a

Dave [00:41:30]:
question that I would have. Yeah. I it's I would I love your last statement there or statement series of statements. So think about the concept of the whole counsel of God. Right? I mean, you know, we talk about Christian worldview. The assumption there is that God claims lordship over every part

Greg [00:41:51]:
of our life.

Dave [00:41:53]:
And if we say, well, politics has no part in my life. Excuse me. That politics, God has no part in politics because that's secular versus that's not what God claims. He's

Chad [00:42:09]:
the Lord

Dave [00:42:09]:
of the universe. He designed us, and it's pretty obvious. Even somebody dumb like Aristotle, I say that with my tongue in my cheek. Right? Called humans political animals. Yeah. Right? Fundamental to who we are as humans is how we interact, things public, things pertaining to the public. That that is that's 90% of how we live. So how can we not talk about it? And I I I'm more than happy to avoid nonmoral political choices.

Dave [00:42:45]:
Right? So if you wanna say, okay, you know, tax rates, we're not we're gonna I'm gonna preach on that. I would probably have a problem with that because it doesn't say render into Caesar, you know, I e pay Caesar taxes when the late rate is low. Right? It just says pay your taxes. It doesn't say how whether they should be hired. No. I think there's an there's some common sense to think about that, but that's not biblical. It's common sense. Right? It's stuff we can think through and study from a, you know, non theological perspective.

Dave [00:43:19]:
I'm really happy to not talk about those issues from the pulpit, but if you wanna talk about if you wanna tell me not to talk about the sanctity of human life, or if you wanna tell me not to mention any kind of sexual ethic from the pulpit, or if you wanna say to me that the pulpit is just to be winsome and hope people come to Jesus and not preach the whole counsel of God. Now now we have a huge philosophical theological difference Yep. That I'm gonna go to bat. Yeah. And and I think if it's go time, it's go time. Oh, yeah. That was a well put. That was well put.

Dave [00:44:04]:
Well, it's go time when it comes to those kinds of things. Yeah. So I but I but I think part of the problem is we just haven't. And because of that, we have a very, very ignorant Christian voting base. Yeah. And I just hate to I just hate to say that. It sounds so arrogant, but it how many people can pass the US constitution test?

Greg [00:44:28]:
Well, I did. I did.

Dave [00:44:30]:
I know.

Greg [00:44:30]:
I I officially did when I took the test so that I could

Chad [00:44:33]:
become a US citizen. I'm positive I could.

Dave [00:44:36]:
Well, I I had to take a constitution test in high school.

Chad [00:44:39]:
Mhmm.

Dave [00:44:40]:
In fact, I passed even though I missed the last page because I didn't even see there was a last page.

Greg [00:44:45]:
Oh, wow.

Dave [00:44:45]:
And the teacher came up to me afterwards and goes, Dave, did you know that you didn't answer the last page? And I was like, no. Did I fail? And they were like, oh, I just figured you knew you were gonna pass because you were did so did so well. So yeah.

Greg [00:44:59]:
I do wanna back up in because I used the word, and and then you used the word about being ignorant and,

Dave [00:45:07]:
Ignorant. Ignorant. That's not how I'm doing.

Greg [00:45:09]:
Now he's just Yeah. So I I do think so I do think that there are a lot of people who are ignorant about how things should work. And I don't want to imply, I think there are some Christians who are ignorant, but I think there are a lot of Christians who have been conditioned to be silent that that probably know a fair bit, but they have been so conditioned

Dave [00:45:40]:
There.

Greg [00:45:40]:
To be to be silent. And maybe that's borderlining on being fearful. I don't I don't know. I I don't wanna judge their hearts, but I I really do think that a lot of Christians have been conditioned that you can't talk about these things, whether it's conditioned by the church they're in, or conditioned by culture, or can I I really do think that that the world, and Romans 12 says, do not be conformed by the world? Conformed means squeezed into the mold of, and the world does try to squeeze us into the mold. And the media and the system and the campaigns, they try to condition us. They work overtime to condition our responses If our responses. If you take a minute to understand the detailed analytics that the campaigns use Oh, yeah. On you, what they know about you, and how they can micro target you.

Greg [00:46:48]:
If you understood for a second how they can manipulate you with the reels that you're watching on your Insta or TikTok or Facebook. Mhmm. How they can manipulate like, you think you think this is all cool because you're seeing these videos and these things. They are they are making you see what they want you to see. Mhmm. They are making you feel things. They're, like, they're making you crave things. Mhmm.

Greg [00:47:17]:
It isn't just ads that they're putting there. That is, like, everything is a formula, and they are micro targeting you, and they're conditioning you. And I think that a lot of believers have been conditioned to respond to politics in a certain way, and, I think that we need to rethink that.

Chad [00:47:39]:
I completely agree. And this goes back to our social media episode. All those social media platforms, you put in your name, your address, your date of birth, all of the information you put in there. All it is is a massive database,

Greg [00:47:55]:
and

Chad [00:47:55]:
it goes way beyond what you put in on day 1. It keeps collecting more and more and more and more.

Dave [00:48:02]:
So so just to give an example from tonight, Joanna and I went out for dinner. Mhmm. And when we went, we go to one particular restaurant a lot because we love it. So so when we went, they had an app that you could get rewards. I'm like, we come to this place all the time. We need to at least get some kind of discounts and so forth. So so I sign up for it, and they said, would you allow us to track your use of other apps so we can serve you better? And I'm like, you're not serving me better. You're trying to manipulate me or sell my data.

Greg [00:48:34]:
Yep.

Dave [00:48:34]:
And I was like, oh, this is crazy. Another thing that I found remember those years ago when when the computer first put us onto the interwebs, and they they got really technical. They they started to really know how to monetize it. Sure. There would be these tests like, hey. Are you what character are you in the Lord of the Rings? And I just recently found out that those were personality tests to tag you to see what kind of products they could sell you. Yep. That they were actually manipulating you into giving them marketing information.

Chad [00:49:07]:
Yep. This guy thinks he's Elrond. Cue the

Dave [00:49:12]:
Bud Light. Wanna be Gimli. Why did you call me Gimli?

Chad [00:49:16]:
Cue the Bud Light.

Dave [00:49:20]:
Bud Light. Bud Light reference. Anyway yeah. So, yeah. There's that. Right?

Greg [00:49:26]:
Anyway So many layers to that one. I know. It really doesn't get it.

Dave [00:49:31]:
Oh. Wow. Wow. Maybe I'm just thinking like 3 d chess kind of level. Maybe that's what it is, Greg.

Greg [00:49:40]:
I'm sure.

Dave [00:49:40]:
Think about that, Greg.

Greg [00:49:43]:
I'm I'm you can't even get past 2 d.

Dave [00:49:48]:
I'm doing 4 d.

Greg [00:49:50]:
You have

Dave [00:49:50]:
the element of 2 d.

Greg [00:49:54]:
That's how we got

Chad [00:49:55]:
to the 4th July from the first in 2

Dave [00:49:56]:
days. Wow. Go home and cry them all. You're so pastoral on one side, and you're so you're so cutting in another, Greg.

Chad [00:50:12]:
Uh-huh. So let me ask you this. So let's let's fast forward in time to November 6th. November 6th.

Greg [00:50:21]:
The day. Not accept the outcome.

Chad [00:50:23]:
Okay. There we go. That's exactly what I was gonna ask about. What do we do? What do we do if we're a believer and our favorite didn't win?

Dave [00:50:32]:
I think we read Daniel. Okay. I I think no matter what, we read Daniel. It basically says that God is the one who puts people on the throne. Yeah?

Greg [00:50:45]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:50:46]:
And God can put the most corrupt, ungodly, dangerous, corrupt person on the throne and accomplish his will.

Chad [00:50:57]:
Yeah. And I think you did a very good job of describing both top candidates

Dave [00:51:02]:
to selection cycle.

Greg [00:51:06]:
Yeah. I got I got Psalm 10 starting in verse 16. The Lord is king forever and ever. The nations perish from His land. Oh, Lord, You hear the desire of the afflicted. You will strengthen their heart. You will incline Your ear to do justice for the fatherless and the oppressed so that the man who is of the earth may strike terror no more. No matter who wins, the lord is king forever and ever.

Greg [00:51:35]:
There you go.

Dave [00:51:37]:
Yeah. And there is gonna be a day.

Greg [00:51:38]:
And he's the only one with absolute immunity.

Chad [00:51:42]:
Wait for it.

Dave [00:51:47]:
I love the absolute immunity. That was awesome. Yeah. So he's gonna come back with king of kings, Lord of lords tattooed to his leg.

Chad [00:51:56]:
Yep.

Dave [00:51:57]:
And he's gonna meet out justice and retribution, and he's gonna bring the earth back to a place of pre fall. Right? Yep. But even better. But he's not gonna do that without first punishing sin, and that's why Psalm 2 do homage to the king, and that's a message that you don't hear a lot today either. It's like Yeah. So if you don't submit to the king, he will eventually crush you.

Greg [00:52:26]:
So he's gonna make the world great again.

Dave [00:52:30]:
Yep. That was such a good he's the greatest of all time. Truly

Greg [00:52:38]:
greatest. Like like, when Jesus says, truly, truly, I say to you, he's just saying, believe me.

Chad [00:52:45]:
That's Stan. And

Dave [00:52:48]:
just how many how many Trump references can you make, man? That was awesome. It's at least 3 like that today.

Greg [00:52:54]:
The Lord is king forever and ever. Mhmm.

Dave [00:52:57]:
Amen. That's comforting.

Chad [00:53:00]:
So, yeah, if that's your perspective and that's really what your hope is in, November 6th is just another day. Right? Yeah.

Greg [00:53:06]:
Like, there there are people since since Thursday night at the end of the debate who have been having quite literal meltdowns. Yeah. And it was, like, at at the end the night of the the 2016 election when Donald Trump won, and there were like, you saw these pictures and videos of people in absolute hysterics Yeah. Over that. And, and I saw people when, you know, the next election, people absolutely despondent over who won. Mhmm. And when this election happens, there are people who are going to be absolute despondent, and I have no doubt that there are going to be people who do violent things no matter who wins this election. Yep.

Greg [00:53:54]:
But in the end Really?

Dave [00:53:56]:
You think it's gonna be both sides? Yep. Okay.

Greg [00:53:59]:
Yeah. But in the end but in the end, the and it's gonna and I condemn it. Same. I thoroughly condemn it. So this

Chad [00:54:08]:
is part of the problem that we're having right now, given the information bubble that we have that we talked about. Information streams on both left and right that you can cocoon yourself off. And this kinda started about 20 years ago after 2,000, and we had a problem where one side would not accept the results of any election that they lost, and it got worse in 2016 for that side. And after 2020, we have an even bigger problem. We have 2 sides that won't accept the results of any election that they lose. And so I agree with Greg. I think that no matter what happens because of irresponsible rhetoric from both sides, there's a certain contingent of both sides that's just ready to throw down Yeah. If they

Dave [00:54:52]:
lose. To them.

Greg [00:54:54]:
Yeah. And I don't know how bad it'll get.

Chad [00:54:56]:
Yeah. Hopefully, not that bad. But God is still in his room. God is still on the throne.

Dave [00:55:05]:
His kingdom is forever and ever and ever.

Greg [00:55:09]:
Yeah. The Lord is king forever and ever.

Chad [00:55:26]:
Thanks for joining us at Catfish Ministries. We hope you learned something with us and maybe had a laugh or 2 while you're at it. Please subscribe and leave a 5 star review. If you really like what you heard and wanna help us make more of these, look us up on buy me a coffee dot com. We can't wait to talk to you again next time. This is Chad for Greg and Dave signing off and saying remember America, it's always a great day to get catfished.