Meaning and Moxie After 50
Exploring Life and Trails with Julie Brucher: From Camino de Santiago to Appalachian Trail
Ever fancied embarking on a 500-mile pilgrimage, exploring your physical boundaries and spiritual pursuits? Well, you're in for a treat! Our guest for this episode is Julie Brutcher, a retired paramedic turned adventurer, who takes us along on her compelling journey through the Camino de Santiago, from her starting point in St. Jean Pied de Port to her stays in hostels and albergues. Julie's insights into her journey offer an immersion into the history, purpose, and personal challenges of the Camino, painting a vibrant picture of this remarkable pilgrimage.
The episode doesn't just stop at Julie's personal journey, but brings you stories and insights from other hikers too. Picture yourself managing knee pain, mastering the art of hiking poles, meeting fellow hikers, and forming new friendships — all part of the unique Camino experience. From the camaraderie of hikers from different backgrounds to their emotional celebrations at the end of the hike, these personal narratives invite you to explore the beautiful blend of human spirit and nature.
But the adventure doesn't end there. We broaden our horizon to other hiking trails, like the Appalachian Trail, and discuss wildlife encounters and safety concerns, drawing from personal experiences. We also delve into the thrill of hiking alone in the wilderness and the peaceful moments of being in nature. As we draw towards the end, Julie shares her wisdom on balancing personal fulfillment and family commitments while embracing adventures, encouraging you to explore life in midlife and beyond, find balance, and embrace adventure. So, if you're sensing the itch to hit the trail or simply yearn for an adventure, this episode is just for you!
**The information provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute legal advice; instead, all information, content and materials available on this site are for general informational purposes only. Information on this podcast may not constitute the most up-to-date legal or other information. This podcast contains links to other third party websites. Such links are only for the convenience of the reader, user or browser.
Ever fancied embarking on a 500-mile pilgrimage, exploring your physical boundaries and spiritual pursuits? Well, you're in for a treat! Our guest for this episode is Julie Brutcher, a retired paramedic turned adventurer, who takes us along on her compelling journey through the Camino de Santiago, from her starting point in St. Jean Pied de Port to her stays in hostels and albergues. Julie's insights into her journey offer an immersion into the history, purpose, and personal challenges of the Camino, painting a vibrant picture of this remarkable pilgrimage.
The episode doesn't just stop at Julie's personal journey, but brings you stories and insights from other hikers too. Picture yourself managing knee pain, mastering the art of hiking poles, meeting fellow hikers, and forming new friendships — all part of the unique Camino experience. From the camaraderie of hikers from different backgrounds to their emotional celebrations at the end of the hike, these personal narratives invite you to explore the beautiful blend of human spirit and nature.
But the adventure doesn't end there. We broaden our horizon to other hiking trails, like the Appalachian Trail, and discuss wildlife encounters and safety concerns, drawing from personal experiences. We also delve into the thrill of hiking alone in the wilderness and the peaceful moments of being in nature. As we draw towards the end, Julie shares her wisdom on balancing personal fulfillment and family commitments while embracing adventures, encouraging you to explore life in midlife and beyond, find balance, and embrace adventure. So, if you're sensing the itch to hit the trail or simply yearn for an adventure, this episode is just for you!
**The information provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute legal advice; instead, all information, content and materials available on this site are for general informational purposes only. Information on this podcast may not constitute the most up-to-date legal or other information. This podcast contains links to other third party websites. Such links are only for the convenience of the reader, user or browser.
So are you looking for more inspiration and possibility in midlife and beyond? Join me, leslie Maloney, proud wife, mom, author, teacher and podcast host, as I talk with people finding meaning in moxie in their life after 50. Interviews that will energize you and give you some ideas to implement in your own life. I so appreciate you being here. Now let's get started. Okay, hi everybody, welcome back to another meaning in moxie after 50. And I got another special one here for you today. This is my friend and I'll talk a minute here in a second about how we met, but we have Julie Brutcher here with us today, all the way from northern Wisconsin, and I'm just going to give you a little bit of background so you can know just a little bit about her. So she was born in northern Wisconsin, a little town, hayward, wisconsin, which sounds really beautiful, and she and her husband have actually circled back there now in retirement. So you're back where you grew up, huh.
Speaker 2:Yep Love it. That's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:It sounds like a super outdoorsy place, which is no surprise, knowing her.
Speaker 1:Now it all kind of starts to fit together so we'll talk about all the cool things that they do up there, but very, very outdoorsy area.
Speaker 1:So we came up paramedic and worked in Chicago and Denver where you met your husband and he was in the army, and so that led to it sounds like many different places that you all lived and you raised four kids and now you're back in northern Wisconsin, like I mentioned, and you winter in Florida, and that's where I come in because that's how we met, so I have to tell our listeners. So we met last spring Julie's, a tennis buddy of mine, and we have another mutual friend, dan, who kept telling me about this woman who loves to hike, and she's done that and right away my ears perked up. I'm like whoa, this sounds like somebody I got to meet is a kindred spirit and so, sure enough, we met and started playing tennis together and so on and have mutual friends from that, and she has just had some amazing trips, adventures, and recently just did is back from the Camino, and you did the classic, I did the, I did the.
Speaker 2:DeFranciste yes, it's the longest Camino.
Speaker 1:Camino, camino de Francais, is that how they say it? Okay, yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So I guess let's just start there. So just for those listeners who don't know anything about what the Camino is, can we explain to them? Give them just a little bit of background.
Speaker 2:Well, one thing the Camino that I just finished is 500 miles. They say it's 800 kilometers, and the average amount of time it takes to complete this they call it a pilgrimage, not necessarily a hike. It takes most people about 35 days and I did it in 32 days and it's like I said, it's a pilgrimage and there's five or six different routes that come all actually there's probably more than that but they come from all over Europe and the whole goal of the Camino is to go pay homage and go pay, go honor the remains of St James. So when you do your Caminos, the several different routes, they all end at Santiago de Compostelo, and Santiago means St James. So the story goes is that the tomb of St James is actually in Santiago. I don't remember the details on how it worked. He was like beheaded or some such thing, and they buried him in Santiago and it started off. It's a huge, beautiful, ornate cathedral right now, but it started off as just a little, tiny little place where they buried St James, and then they built a little chapel around it and then they built a bigger chapel around it and now it's this absolutely magnificent cathedral, and so people come from all over Europe, from all the different directions and they all end at Santiago. So that's where I ended, and where I started was in St John de Pont I'm not French, but anyway something like that.
Speaker 2:St John de Pont, pierre de Pont, st John Pierre de Pont, which is on the French side of the Pyrenees Mountains. So the very first day you head up on, you start your Camino. You head up almost the highest mountain which is up towards Rances-Balles, and so you don't even get a chance to get your trail legs. You just start in St John and you go I think it's 18 miles, I think the first day up the mountain and you get to a beautiful monastery and you stay. So now in the Camino, you don't tent camp. They don't allow that. You'll get fined by the police there. So you just stay in different types of hostels, or Elberge, or Jeets is what they call them. So over the Pyrenees and stayed at the monastery with a beautiful meal.
Speaker 1:So that was your first day, so, st James, now he's one of the disciples, right. Yes, apostles, yep, we're going back like thousands of years.
Speaker 2:Oh, they've been making this pilgrimage literally for thousands of years.
Speaker 1:Okay, and this is the original. What you went on is like the original Christ. Yep, okay, and some people I thought I had read that some people even come from the Middle East. They do Brails per se, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I read. So there's a, not a fact. I saw the sign when I was in Dublin Ireland. There's a sign on one of the chapels there that says it's part of the Camino, so I think it came from all over here and actually I saw Camino in Japan. Oh wow, I think there's. Yeah, so I think they all have the same objective is to get to Santiago, but they just come from all the different places.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, so that's amazing, it is. It is so they've got some and somebody's connected those somehow. Now I don't imagine that they have the support that you're describing necessarily all that way in terms of the hostels and the albergues. Is that what you call them?
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, and they do.
Speaker 2:They do have those. They move all the way. And again, I think maybe on the Norte or the Primitivo, which they have a little less intricate support systems, I think you may be able to tamp a little bit there, but you cannot camp on the Portugal or the Inglis or the Francis. But they have a really kind of a neat system for staying in different hostels and there's several different kinds of hostels. They have municipals which are pretty much run by the city and they're pretty bare bones.
Speaker 2:A lot of these are pretty bare bones bunk beds and maybe a shower, a lukewarm shower, and some of them have meals and some of them don't. But they've got the municipals. Then they have donativos, which are just pretty bare bones and you just pay by donation. So again you can stay pretty inexpensive, and so ones I stayed in were mostly like the private albergues, which were owned by families or owned by little groups, and they were pretty inexpensive. They were probably maybe average 11 euros a night, which is pretty inexpensive, but again some of them would have eight people in them in bunk beds and some would have 120. So you kind of got different sorts of things and different things, but they were all super clean.
Speaker 1:They were safe People were real friendly, so I really enjoyed it. Yeah, so did you have to book those one? Like were you all booked out before you started in those, because you don't really know how fast you're going to go or how slow you're going to go. Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:How does?
Speaker 1:that work.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and that's one of the big concerns a lot of people have, besides the logistics of getting to your trailhead, which a lot of times is a little bit stressful for a lot of people. You know, you got to make the plane and you got to make the bus and you got to make the train and you got to. You know, sometimes that's a little bit tricky, especially in the states where we don't really use those kinds of systems very much. But when I got over there I made reservations for the first night in Rancis Fios, because there's no place else to stay. So if you don't get in there you're hiking another who knows how many more miles and that's a long day, especially when it's your first one, because you really don't, like I said before, have your trail legs.
Speaker 2:You know, would you get stronger and faster? And you just get the hang of the system as you go along. So the first day it's like, oh, I better make a reservation. So I did and it was book solid, they were filled to the brim. So I was really glad we did that. And then I made a reservation at that time for the next day, which was in Zubairi and then, and that worked out because they were booked and and a lot of people. There were quite a few people on the trail, so then I just kind of did it day by day after that so is.
Speaker 1:the one you were on is probably the most popular in terms of yes between now and in the Portugal.
Speaker 2:Those are the most popular and certainly different months are more popular. In September I went, I left September 20th, let's see September 21st, and I got done October 23rd, so that's a fairly popular time, but it's not as bad as I think. April, may and August yeah, I am slower because it's so hot, so okay but the rest of you were.
Speaker 1:You were sort of still on the, she were on the shoulder, so yeah, I was a less people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was on the shoulder but and I never really had any issues finding a place to stay. I usually just sort of went one day ahead or I just kind of went along and and ended when I ended.
Speaker 1:But now is there a what as you're doing that and planning that, so you're on your cell phone and there must be some kind of app that you use or some kind of so that you can, so you can see.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's no risk. Apps yeah, there's numerous apps and they work really well. And then when you go into the, the St John pilgrims office, which you're called a pilgrim, when you make this, when you make this hike, you're referred to as a pilgrim or a peregrino, and so they have a pilgrims office in st John. When you first get there and you register and they also give you some paperwork, some really nice rosters sort of, with all the different places to stay along the way. They call them stages, and so what you do is you hike from one stage to the next, what they recommend. You don't have to, but they kind of give you an idea.
Speaker 2:Again, you're kind of going according to your distance on what you can do. Some people, will you know, skip the stage and go 20 miles. Some, will you know, find a little smaller one and go five miles. I think I probably average 17, 18 miles a day. So I stayed on stage pretty regularly and I it was so much fun because those the stages are a little bit more popular and there's a lot more pilgrims there and you interact with them and you have dinner with different people. It's just, it's just a blast.
Speaker 1:You had just had knee replacement surgery in the spring.
Speaker 2:Yes, so this was you breaking out and trying out the trying out the knee yeah, and you know what, I wasn't exactly sure how it was gonna go, so I would not have put a whole lot of money on my on my completion. But you know what? It worked out just great. So I had my knee replacement in the middle of May. So I was right at four months when you decided to start heading down the head down the trail. And I wasn't sure. But I had been playing some tennis and it felt pretty good. But four months is pretty early, you know, especially with the backpack. So I did pretty well.
Speaker 2:I think only one day out of the whole month I had some knee pain and I don't know what it was, I'm just hiking down the road. I had 18 miles to go, it was really hot out and I started off right away. That morning I really bad knee pain first time. Nothing, nothing before, not the night before, not the day before.
Speaker 2:And then you know you start to worry a little bit. First thing I think of is just like oh no, I won't be able to finish. That's my very. First thing is I won't be able to finish and it was kind of a long day, it was a tough day, but I had knee pain and the knee pain was going up into my thigh and down in my calf. So then I thought all right, I know that's not my knee replacement broken or floating around. And what I sort of came to the conclusion Is I probably twang the nerd a little bit. And so the next day I took up a little pain reliever which I hadn't done and I slowed it down and I'm using hiking poles anyway and I never had another ounce of pain Never again.
Speaker 1:I think I just twang the nerve yeah, it sounds like it and you kind of did those preemptive, took those preemptive steps to. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I never, ever had another, another ounce of pain. So the whole, and it just felt better and better as I went along.
Speaker 1:How much are you carrying in your backpack? It's not your, since you're not camping right. It's not that much. Yes, how much would you say you're carrying?
Speaker 2:It's a lot less than when I piked on the Appalachian trail way less, and so this was just. I feel like I could have just skipped down the trail. It was, it was quite, it was quite a bit easier. So my path with, with, and I didn't have to carry that much water. So my path was like one liter of water was about 15 pounds, but you're not carrying a tent.
Speaker 2:I did carry a lightweight sleeping bag which I used pretty much every night on the bunk beds. They would give you a some. Some of the albergues would give you a wool blanket, but I guess I just wasn't, didn't want to use common blankets that everybody was using. So you could, and some people do, but I guess I was more comfortable just using my own CP bag. So I just had a lightweight CP bag, a couple sets of clothes, because you go from 95 degrees and the last 10 days was Was pouring rain. So what you did? You do need to have changes of clothes. You don't have to carry water filters, you don't have to carry bed rolls, you don't have to carry a tent, you don't have to keep any that. So I was about 15 pounds with everything with water, you know.
Speaker 1:Not, not too bad not too bad easy, way easy, yeah, yeah, which we'll get into here shortly. Let's talk about some of the people you met along the way. Oh my gosh, it was some of the more memorable people that you encountered.
Speaker 2:It's just absolutely wonderful. I hiked with a friend and he was actually from the states, and met him the very first day. You know, one of the things I had a hard time getting used to was the siesta afternoons and the amount of time when the whole towns are closed down and you can't get anything to eat. There's no grocery stores, and so you know I would get done hiking about three o'clock in the afternoon and and everything was closed and I would be pretty hungry. And so the first night I sat in st John Trying to figure out what to eat. I was eating like a what do they call them? It's like a long bagel with just thin slice of bread bogey deal. And so, as I found one place that had a bogey deal and I was sitting just kind of on the stoop of one of the Buildings, there again I I didn't really know what I was doing at the time and another gentleman came by and he goes oh my gosh, I'm starving and there's nothing to eat I said I've been up and down these streets so many times with only one little place and I said it's right there. And he was so thankful because he was the same situation he was starving.
Speaker 2:So so this friend, he ended up, being from San Diego. I hiked with him every day. We didn't do sometimes we hiked during the day, but we almost always ended up the same place because we did the same, the same pace. So he became just a great friend and I think I, you know he was just, he was so great. I feel like he's my, like my brother. It was so great and we just people all over the world, all over the world. So some of the Albergays, they would have communal meals, not all of them, but many of them did. Where they say at 730, you know everybody that's around there come down and just sit at the meal and they just serve. You know one thing a lot of times it was real simple food like lentil soup and a salad. All the wine you could drink though it was amazing, literally all the wine you could drink.
Speaker 2:So you have these communal meals and then you would be sitting next to somebody who is from Belarus, and then there'd be a family from Australia, and then there were a lot of people from the UK and it was just. You know, you have these conversations and thankfully I can speak a little bit of Spanish, but not a whole lot. But thankfully English is pretty much the universal language and most people Between a little bit of broken English or a little bit of broken Spanish or French or whoever out there. Most people could communicate and Everybody was very patient with each other and communicate. And you know, we we talked about some world issues, but most people stay away from a lot of that kind of stuff. You know they don't bring in that. That controversial politics is what it is. That just means to get an unwritten rule. We don't talk about that. But it was so much fun.
Speaker 2:I did hike with the, with the Korean gentleman, several different times and every time we were done with our meals he wanted to sing. So, so everybody, everybody would sit around the table and sing, and I nobody was a professional singer, but they just sing with vigor, and so they would. We would pick out songs and almost all the time. So again we got people from every country in the world. They wanted to sing American songs, which I thought. And then the second, probably most common one is Irish songs. You know, molly Malone and Danny boy, that they wanted to sing American songs and they were John Denver. Take me home, country boys. They did, and then they like to sing John Denver. And then one night we were sitting around a table and they started singing I don't know if you remember this on top of spaghetti. Oh yeah, this is an American song. Oh, all over the place. So from Korea and UK and all these different accents in Japan, we're all sitting around singing. Everybody knew it.
Speaker 1:It's just cracks me up. That is, yeah, that song of all, the song Of all the songs.
Speaker 2:Yes, so we had a lot of singing, you know, we did a lot of that and everybody just belted it out, nobody cared about anything and, you know, and actually there were a lot of Towards. Maybe the first week people start to Sort of get beat up a little bit and they start to either have to take extra days for injuries. I think the biggest thing is blisters. People get a lot of blisters and they would just try to, you know, they try to work through it, but a lot of blisters would take people literally off the trail. And now there's a group of women I called them the southerners, but because they were from Texas and Louisiana, arkansas, they were hiking together.
Speaker 2:There were four women and they were my age group. And then they had a brother who was kind of, you know, pretty, pretty strong and pretty ready to go, and I think he sort of was, was like the leader of the pack. Well, the women, you know, they hung in there, they do pretty well. But here's the guy and he had to get off the trail because he had such severe shin splints, oh Parable. He couldn't take two steps. You know, those take quite a while to heal. Yeah, I think you know which was really pretty sad. It's like not that much you can do about that, but rest sure, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's one of the things I think a lot of people don't realize. With some of these hikes, um, like like the Camino, like AT the AT, is you meet people along the way that become your hiking buddies? You sure do, and is kind of an ebb and flow of that, because in a lot of times you'll hear people say, well, I, I would never do that alone, but you're really not alone not in this trail, no, you're not alone at all but yet I could still find some peace and some solitude at different places, and I was.
Speaker 2:I did hike up one Um oh Cerero, one of that, another one of the highest mountains on the trail, and the weather was just brutal. It was just brutal and a lot of people were having a really hard time, really struggling. It was basically a mud uphill and Got to the top and you know, I kind of spread out, I was, I had a pretty good pace, but you got up there and there were people. Just they were tired, they were wet, they were exhausted, but they were happy, which is this funny thing, they were just happy.
Speaker 2:You know, getting up a muddy, wet trail where you're exhausted and you've got mud up your ankles, and then down the trail would come like four horses, you know, just walking down the trail, just kind of doing their thing. But you get up to the top of that mountain and a fog had had worked in, so it's very foggy, it was very misty and the wind was blowing and you just feel like you're just close to heaven, kind of. It's just heaven. I absolutely love it and everybody that's that made that track is feeling the same thing. Some are more tired than others, but everybody is just feeling so thankful and they just feel connected to things. You're just connected, connected to the world, connected that nature, connected the universe, and you just accomplished a fairly good thing.
Speaker 1:So what do you think that is? That's creating a connection in those situations.
Speaker 2:You know, and people will take this pilgrimage for many reasons. You know you've got these little papers that you look at. Are you? Are you walking for, you know, spiritual reasons, for physical reasons, for social reasons, and every time I saw one of those papers they would do the pilgrimage. I would check up all of them. I really am. I'm doing it for all of it. I love the physical challenge of it.
Speaker 2:I am spiritual, I am Catholic, so the Camino meant was pretty personal for me. I love the social things but I'm probably I get more peace out of the actual hiking than I do all of the people. You know, this is one of those things that I think defines introverts and extroverts a little bit, where I, you know, I've walked with people who they're tired by the walking but they're just exuberated with the people they meet. You know, your energy just goes up when they sit at communal table. They are just, they just glow, they absolutely love it. Where, to me, that's a little more tiring. I get my energy from the actual walking. I'm thrilled with it, but I can get, I can get tired from talking a whole lot. So I guess I'm a little more introvert, I'm probably a little bit of both, but I definitely get my energy from walking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you can tweak that to your liking on any given day with that sort of thing, and that's a really good point, that because we all have that interplay of introvert and extrovert and we tend to lean more towards one or the other. But I think it can depend on the day, as well. Yeah it sure, can it sure?
Speaker 2:can, and some of the scenery and some of the walks are so. They're just so spectacular that I just zone out. You know, I can walk 15 miles. And I look up and I think did I just walk 15 miles? I don't even know I'm doing it, I just love it.
Speaker 1:It sounds like it's pretty. I mean you're not going through any big cities, it's pretty rural. Would you say that it's a lot of small towns?
Speaker 2:Lots of small towns and very old, you know very old, small towns and they, a lot of them, have cobblestone, they have the old buildings. They have a lot of them have chapels and cathedrals. But you also walk through Leon, you walk through Mistorga, you walk through Burgos, you walk through several big cities. Those are not my favorite, you know. My favorite is getting into the small towns where you know the dogs and the chickens and the cows and everything are running all over the streets and the cobblestone things and you know, and the fountains everywhere. That's what I like. You have to go through some of the cities but I like I like to get out of them as fast as I could.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would be the same way, I think. So what is it like for the people who are living in these small towns, in these cities, as the pilgrims are coming by? It's a long tradition for their area. So what is that like interacting with them and how they behave and their thoughts on the whole thing?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's a little bit of a mixed blessing for them. You know, I think some of the towns, some of these older towns, as in many small places, you know, the younger people sort of move away and they move into the cities and I think a lot of these small towns, the same things are happening and so the only thing that's keeping these towns even sort of vibrant are the pilgrims, because there's a lot of times no other industry and so they really depend on the pilgrims for, you know, for their livelihood. But all these people can get annoying. You know, I think one of the things that seems to be kind of funny and I try to be really conscious of this is most everybody uses hiking poles. You know, they put these little rubber stoppers on the bottom of their poles but as hundreds of people, especially in the really big months, are clickety-clackin constantly down their cobblestone streets, you know I've heard that this absolutely drives some of these people absolutely cuckoo, because people will start hiking at, you know, crack a dawn and in the summertime they'll, they'll hike in the dark.
Speaker 2:And so here's people in their rooms and a lot of times their homes are right right on the communal.
Speaker 2:You know, they don't have grass, they don't have yards between them, the communal, it's their bedroom window and there's the communal, and so they hear this clickety-clackin, you know, for weeks and months at a time, and I think you know they, that's like these little tiny things that seem to get a little annoying and you can certainly, you know, feel, for that is, you know, I would hear somebody behind me clickety-clackin, and that would.
Speaker 2:I would, I would have to try to either let them get ahead of me or or behind me. And another thing that I that kind of bothered me, and I could certainly tell it it probably bothered other people is those who are on their cell phones talking, you know, as you're, as you're trying to to commune with the whole you know trail and the whole system, and they're talking loudly. Some of them, you can tell are working, some of them are just loud, you know, and they're on the cell phones, which I don't know, not my, not my place to say much, but you know, those are the kinds of things that I'm imagining. If it bothered me, it probably bothered, you know, a lot of the locals, you know, yeah there.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you go to a place like that to unplug, which is most of us can use that anyway to one degree, or another yeah, I could see where that might be difficult for some people to do it's very difficult for some people to do.
Speaker 2:And yet you know the locals in the towns. I think they really depend on the pilgrims for their livelihood. You know, between the albergues and some of those with those small grocery stores and the little coffee shops, there isn't much industry going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah when you're going through those towns. So they give you a little passport. You're getting that stamp along the way. Is that how it works?
Speaker 2:yeah, that is exactly how it works, and so you can get the passport.
Speaker 2:Some of the cathedrals you can get one, but you know, I got my um at st john, which is where I started, and then you have to have two stamps a day and then when you, and then the last hundred miles, everybody that wants their Compostello, which is like your certificate that you that you've made this pilgrim pilgrimage, you have to have it from Saria, which is 100 kilometers or 60 miles from you have to go from Saria to to Santiago and and they do check that but you can walk, you know, from from st John to Comp to Santiago and get two stamps a day, and so you can get a stamp at albergue, at the coffee shops, at the cathedrals.
Speaker 2:You can get stamps from anywhere, and it's really kind of cool because all the stamps are different, they're different colors and they're different designs, and so you have this kind of a nice little moment of all the places that you've stayed along the way, and then that's how you get the, the pilgrim price. Some of these albergues, only pilgrims can stay there, and so you have to have that passport in order to be able to get the number one, the price that they'll, that they'll give you, or to even be able to stay there, municipals donativos, you have to be a pilgrim to stay there. You can't be what they call. They call the difference between a peregrino and a tourist, you know. And the tourists, they pay a little different price and they can stay in some of the private albergues and they can stay in a hotel, but they can't stay in the municipals of the donativos. Otherwise there's no place for the hikers, for the walkways, to stay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the incentive, then, to, to, to do that passport right and you have to have it. To get your campestelo to, you have to have it was there ever a day other than the day you had the knee pain? Was there ever a day where you thought I don't know if I'm going to finish this, nope nope, nope, nope, nope, not at all, not at all.
Speaker 2:But most of the people that I had chatted with, almost everybody, had a day like that, everybody did. And so this little funny story, one of this, these gals, she was actually from st louis and she was a nice hiker, good hiker, but she was, you know, she was, she was getting tired and so she was. Maybe she probably only had maybe a week left to go. But she said she had a moment where she was thought she was done, and so she was sitting on this bench in this little, you know, this little, this little town, sitting on the bench, a little weepy, you know little, a little, trying to figure out if she had the to keep going. And she said this this little woman had come out, was sweeping off her steps, and had come out, and she sat by the gal for a minute and she said I don't want you to be startled, but there's a cat who lives in this bush, you know that's right next to where you're sitting. So she kind of wanted to warn her. So she didn't, like, you know, she didn't be startled by this cat, and so my friends, they're like okay, thanks for telling me.
Speaker 2:And then the. The woman said and one more thing about this cat that lives in the bush is the cat likes to pray and so, and so my friend's like, okay, whatever. And so the little woman went back to her sweeping and went back to her, her stupid, her door, and lo and behold, that cat came out of the bush. And the cat jumped up and sat on the bench right next to my friend and stared at her and just stared at her. And so my friend is like I think that cat might be praying with me. And then my friend got the, got the her second wind and off she went, hiked right down the trail. So her story is, you know, she had this cat pray with her and all of a sudden she had enough, she got enough energy and she never, she never again had that, had that feeling of quitting.
Speaker 1:So I like that something was going on there. Yeah, it's something that's going on.
Speaker 2:Either the cat was just looking for her or my friend that I was hiking with just needed. She just needed a little bit of rest and a little bit of something to say. You know you can go on and she sounds.
Speaker 1:Sounds like that was probably not the first time that woman had said that to someone too so maybe, yeah, yeah, the praying cat kept going and I did hike.
Speaker 2:I did hike with another guy who had his knee was so bad, you know, that he didn't think he was going to go on. But we kind of walked into a little sports store along the way and he got a little. He got a brace, put it on his knee, kept going, you know, he just kind of kept going. But I personally never had that. The only thing is I had that one day that my knee hurt but I said I would have crawled my way. I would have crawled if I had to. There's no way I was gonna stop. No, yeah in the world. But I did hear a lot of people. A lot of people had had at least a day like that where they just didn't know if they wanted to keep doing it sure, I would imagine.
Speaker 1:So how about age groups? Where did you see all different age groups out there?
Speaker 2:absolutely was your impression of that, absolutely every age group. So there was a couple, I think they were from the uk and they had 10 month old, in a you know an all terrain stroller and they made it the whole way. And that baby I crisscrossed them a little bit, the baby never made a peep, was always looking, played with his toes, he had just, he was like the little, the little mascot of the communal, he just did great. And the couple, the mom, the dad, they were younger, they, they never seemed stressed out, they also always seemed happy and they were just doing great.
Speaker 2:And I did hike with a family from australia that had four teenagers they were hiking with and they had decided that so the mom was going to turn 50 years old on the communal and so they did it and they had their four teenagers with them and off they went. And those teenagers, you know they didn't have that that teenagery kind of solanness and some of that, and they weren't, and they were actually not on their, on their gadgets either and they were just a happy, happy group. The mom and dad was so pleasant, they were all so happy and yet you kind of expect teenagers to sort of you know, scott added or be a little sullen. No, they were just happy, happy family, the whole family did it, so they made it. And then again there were older ones. I think the oldest one that I saw was 92, wasn't carrying a backpack, had a lot of support and a lot of help, but was just doing it and I think it was like a seventh communal.
Speaker 1:So there was every age group, every single awesome yeah, it was so great, so you get to the end. Uh, sunday at sunday I would be at campostello. Yep, what was that like that day for you?
Speaker 2:Well, for us, a lot of people get very, very emotional. They get very emotional and there were like three people that I hiked in with, because we've been kind of back and forth quite a bit of the ways. We were hiking in together and we wanted to. We wanted to enter together but it had been raining for 10 days and we were ready for the rain to be done, we were ready to get our dry clothes out, we were ready to be done. But when we got there and it was raining, we saw so many other people that we had criss-crossed with in the whole last 30 days that everybody was jumping and hugging and kissing and taking pictures of this group and taking pictures of that group and asking how their last week went or how their last two weeks went, and everybody.
Speaker 2:It's a sense of connection and camaraderie. That's instant. It's just like this instant thing and everyone's trying to take pictures with each other. It's like, oh, I remember you from from the other place when you know, when we sat and had a glass of wine together or what's going on, and everybody just sort of we started chatting about how things went and then you go and you go get your certificate that says that you accomplished it. And then you know a lot of us. We went and had meals together and we sat and, oh my gosh, we just drank wine and we sat and chatted about all the different things that happened. Some people get very emotional, you know. They break down their tears and there were a few people doing that, but I think that they walk in 10 days on the rain. I think people were more relieved. They were just. It was a sense of relief at that time.
Speaker 1:It's just like yeah yeah, yeah, so you think you'll stay in touch with some of those people I know you mentioned the one friend from San Diego.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, there's about three or four of them that I'll stay in touch with. Yeah, that were. That was absolutely amazing. You know, we had lots of different weather. We started off in St John and it was about 75 or 80.
Speaker 2:And this is through the, through the Basque country, in like La Rio. So it's vineyards, it's vineyard after vineyard and it's just absolutely spectacular. But that weather was actually pretty nice and you know, a little more off trail but it was, you know, some trees, a little woodsy, and that was absolutely beautiful. But then we had two weeks after that that it was 95 degrees and no shade. It's called the Masada, basically like the plateau, and it was very, very beautiful. It was more sunflowers, which the sunflowers had already passed their peaks. It was more like the brown parts of the sunflowers, but it was absolutely beautiful. And then the cornfields, and then there would be so it's like when you were walking through, there was all these different colors of gold. It was gold, just different colors of gold everywhere you look. But it was hot. It was really hot, hot for me. I mean Floridians, you guys are a little more used to it.
Speaker 2:Working with scents at 95 degrees for two weeks is hot.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You have to try to keep sunscreen on and hats on and all those kinds of things. But then after that we got into what's called Galicia and that is the northern part, and it's where they have a lot of the farms. They got the sheep with the bells on and the cows with the bells on and the horses come down the street, the chickens, it's just. It reminds me more of Northern Wisconsin, but all that stuff is real close by. You don't see the cows out in the field, they're next to the road. But that's called Galicia and that's more of the farm country and that's where all the rain starts and so it's very predictable. So, honestly, from what I had read, it followed exactly what it was. So we had like 75 degrees in the southern part, we had 95 degrees for two weeks in the middle part and we had probably 45 or 50 and rain at the top. So we covered it all, which is why you have to pack for those kinds of situations.
Speaker 1:You have to pack for all that. You're such an outdoorsy person and my experience of you is very much that you're comfortable, you're independent, you're out there doing it. What did your family think about you going off and doing this or some of your other adventures?
Speaker 2:Well, my family's used to this. They do, and I don't. Again, I'm not. I don't feel a lot of people will say you know, you stay connected or do you have apps where they can follow you? I don't really like that. I don't really want to be connected all the time. I don't want to be followed.
Speaker 2:But I did do something this time which I, which my kids were they felt much better about. There's this Apple air take thing and I shoved that in the bottom of my backpack. What is that? What is that? It was like a little circley thing that you put again I don't know what it is, you just put it in your bag and they can track that. That tag is called the Apple air take. So you track it on your cell phone. You need it out. So they knew where my backpack was all the time. I may not have been with my backpack, but they knew where my backpack was. So that was one way that they felt kind of comfortable watching me and actually for me, like when you're traveling, if my backpack would have gotten lost on an airplane someplace or stolen, I would know where it was, and so that was. They could track me a little bit.
Speaker 2:But I texted my husband, oh, maybe once or twice a week. I never called him on the phone at all, but my husband being active due to military, we're kind of used to him being gone for weeks and months at a time. So this wasn't too unusual for us. And you know they, they want me to be safe, which I'm careful of. I said I love adventure, but I don't have a death wish. So I'm not going to, you know, skydive into a volcano, although I didn't walk an Iceland on that volcano two years ago, that was, that was bubbling up. But I really don't. I don't have a death wish at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I'm careful. But I like adventure, but you're adventurous. I always had always had like as a kid. As I mentioned Northern Wisconsin, where they cross country ski and kayaking, and hiking and all of that. So you come, come by it naturally.
Speaker 2:And my kids are pretty adventurous too. They pretty much traveled all over the world and they're pretty adventurous and that effect. We're going to Paris with my daughters next week and both two of them have their birthdays while we're there. Oh nice, yeah. So they, you know they're in a little bit different situation with young families and careers, but you know they've traveled all over the world and I'm sure they will again.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about the AT. You've been, you've been segment hiking the AT for several years now. For our listeners who don't not familiar with that, so you basically it's a segment. So instead of doing, I think, the entire AT Appalachian Trail from, it goes from Georgia to Maine and it's 2,200 miles, something like that yeah, 2,193. 2,193. Yep. And so you've been doing little pieces of it. Since what year?
Speaker 2:I've been doing a month at a time. So I've been hiking the months of October and May. So I have about I just have a couple of hundred miles to go. And actually the last time I hiked but see that was in October. So it was a year to go in October and I had the whole month of October to go. And on the third day of this section I was in Maryland, I think. So I'm kind of making my way up the trail. Maybe it was in Pennsylvania. Anyway, I was somewhere up in there. And on my third day I was and I have a heavy backpack on. This is like a 35 pound backpack, so this is a lot heavier. So, and it was all the leaves had come down.
Speaker 2:Because we're in the fall and walking up a hill I tripped, which I didn't do too much of, but you know everybody kind of tripped. So I did a trip and I fell. Smack down on at the time was my good knee. I'd already had a knee replacement on my other knee, so I fell on my what was on a good knee and I finished my 30 days but my knee hurt the entire time.
Speaker 2:So instead of being able to hike right away in May again, I had my knee replaced, you know, and I heard it in October, and they wouldn't operate on it until some of the swelling and some of the stuff had gone down. But I couldn't pick it up again in May, which is because I literally had my knee replaced in May. And so that was one of the reasons I switched to the Camino in September, because I didn't think where I am on the Appalachian Trail, which is going to be the hardest parts of it up in New England, it gets a little bit harder. And so this is why I did the Camino this time, because I knew it was going to be easier than where I was on the AT. Now, hopefully in May, I'll jump back on the AT again.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you. So you're planning to get back on the AT in May and do a month?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I just have a couple more hundred miles to go, so I'll finish that, but I didn't.
Speaker 1:And that's a difficult that's much more rigorous than the.
Speaker 2:Camino.
Speaker 1:It's very rocky, especially up in that section of the AT.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is, You're carrying a full pack and you're sleeping in a tent every night, yeah, and you still have. You know, you still have a little weather to deal with. And I think there were I don't know which month it was, but I was in Virginia, part of Virginia, and I hadn't run into it must have been October I hadn't run into a single human being in five days, Literally did not see one single person in five days. And you know, and you kind of think, the Appalachian Trail is a busy hiking trail too, but there's lots of sections where you cannot see anyone for a long time. Or you get to a campground or someplace where you're going to stay and there's nobody there, like nobody. And I'm like you know, I'm pretty good being by myself, but I even got tired of myself after five days with no person over there.
Speaker 1:That's a long time, but it's way harder. There's a lot of there's a lot of structure there to support the hikers going through probably not at the same level as the Camino, but still a lot of structure in different areas.
Speaker 2:There is, there is. Trail angels and Trail angels, which is wonderful, very, very wonderful. And they, boy, they can just make, they can really, they can really save you.
Speaker 1:What's one of your favorite stories from the AT? Well, let's see.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh. Well, I had one where I was sitting on a sitting in a rock on a beautiful afternoon in the sunshine, all by myself. I hadn't seen anyone for quite a while and you know, you kind of zone out a little bit. You're looking at the beautiful scenery, you're looking around and I heard rustling up from a bush and I'm like, oh boy, you know, I didn't know what it was, I knew it was an animal, and a big old black bear comes, comes, you know, sauntering, like one foot away from me on my rock, and I'm like, oh my gosh, what in the world? And so I did that thing like make yourself big and, you know, make noises and things like that. And I think I startled the bear because he didn't know I was there.
Speaker 2:I was sitting there minding my business on a warm, sunny rock. He came out of the bush and saw me and I saw him and I did the blow, go away thing and I thought, and he just gently did a? U turn and he sauntered and went back into the, into the bush, and I thought, what in the world? It's the middle of the afternoon, you know what was he? And so I looked behind on that big rock and someone had put a bank of garbage behind that rock. Oh, there wasn't coming for me and my lunch.
Speaker 1:He just was trying to get a bank of garbage and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I thought, well, that is that is. That is kind of a weird one, but you know that's memorable. I think I've probably seen 13 or 14 bear, you know which, they don't. Really I don't get too worked up over the bear. I did see one of the days I was walking, or was that, I can't remember, all the states kind of blend together.
Speaker 2:But I was walking down the, down the trail, you know, kind of by myself, and I saw what I thought was a stick across the trail in a sunny area again, and I thought it was a stick. And as I got closer and closer I thought, gosh, that stick's really uniform looking. And then it wasn't moving, it wasn't doing anything, and I got maybe five feet away and it was a big old snake, you know, right across the trail and I didn't get any closer, I didn't, you know, scare it away. I just kind of stood there and watched. I wish I would have. My camera was back in my bag and I couldn't get to it, but I just kind of looked at the thing again and it kind of looked at me and then, you know, after two or three minutes, kind of wiggled its way right off the trail. Just a couple inches off the trail and it curled up in a log and then it rattled at me.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that was a rattlesnake yeah, oh, I'm not super great at identifying the snakes. I just sort of stay away from them.
Speaker 1:That's my way.
Speaker 2:You know the rattle, though I did know the rattle and you know what, I just gave it space and it just sort of got across and it just curled up in a log and it sort of rattled at me like okay, safe to go, and I thought I'll give you distance, and off I went. And then one time so when you're, when you have your food, you have to call it a bear hang. So you find a branch and you throw your food over the over the branch so the bear can't get to the food Well, one evening I was trying to find a branch to throw my bear bag over, and I'm kind of stomping around in the leaves and then it was camouflaged. But I saw a little something wiggle under the leaves and I stopped right where it was and the thing moved up and that was a copperhead, you know, probably a foot from my feet. So it was in the woods too, and so these other things you kind of have to be a little careful of.
Speaker 2:Again, I'm not definitely afraid of snakes either but, I'm not going to pet one, I'm not going to pick one up, and I again I don't know exactly which ones are which, and I think a lot of people can't distinguish between places, especially under all the leaves. And so you know, you got to be, you got to be a little bit careful of those kinds of things, and I know, a lot of times when I pitch my tent, you know a lot I would try to stay kind of like by the creeks and creeks in the rivers. I just love to listen to it. So if there was a place where I could just pitch my tent by the, by the water, that's what I would do, and then I would have my tent and I would just be in, just in heaven, you know, snuggled in my seabed bag.
Speaker 2:After I close on and you would start to hear the coyotes. You'd hear them, they sounded like they were far away and you know they don't really howl, they more like yep. And so you hear the left side of you sounded far away. Then you'd hear them to the right side of you, kind of like a little closer, and then closer and closer until they they sound like they're five feet away from you and then they sort of go away again and you know if you were kind of creeped out or panned about that, you may not. You may not like this kind of a trip because, there's, there's, there's animals and there's critters kind of everywhere.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't think they come right up to you, necessarily not to me. I have heard stories about where a lot of people get their bear bag stole and if they're not hung right, you know that kind of stuff, but I never had what I would say was a dangerous encounter, you know the only thing I would.
Speaker 2:I'm more careful up and I do carry bear spray with me. It's more like a bear gel. The only thing when I'm all the way up there, all the way by myself, is somebody with bad intentions. That was my only one. That gets me to creeps a little bit, and I think the ones that worries my family. I don't know. I'm sad to be what you're going to do if you're up there with somebody who's stronger than you. You know hope and pray and aim your bear spray, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know, I don't want to worry about it enough so that I am fearful it keeps the place.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think that's the point, I think that's really an important point is you know those, those things are worth consideration, but are you gonna let let it stop you from doing it? And and that really sets you apart because for a lot of people, the answer there that would be too much for them. For all those different reasons you just were mentioning, yeah, and what the odds? Of that happening, whether whether you, you know, encountering somebody like that or stepping on a snake. Yeah, yeah, are very slim in the very slim.
Speaker 2:They are slim, but I guess that the part I don't like about that is is the vulnerability. You know, if you're up there and you by yourself and somebody has bad intention, you're kind of at a predicament. There's just not that much to do and so, so, whatever, one or two times ago, when I was gonna hike I think it was in May, you know, I look through these, these Facebook sites and I kind of you know they have these blogs and they tell you what's coming up. And so there was one of the appellation women it was for women only the appellation trail site and they were warning about this this guy who had been on the trail and he had gone into some young gals tents, two of them and he had molested them. Well, the gals had about police reports, they had done all the things they wanted to do and the guy was put in a 72-hour hold. You know those kinds of things. But the two gals, who were young, did not want to stay and go through the whole legal system and press charges. Number one they were from a different state, but they were so they were so freaked out that they left the trail. Well, so then the word goes up and down the trail, which is kind of a vast communication system, you know, people walking, they're like, oh, watch out for this, or there's bees on the trail. I mean, there's like this system. And so this, this man's trail name was Ice, and so it's going up and down the trail for women to watch out for this guy ice. You know he had molested people but whatever. And so One of the first times that had gotten back on the trail again, my very first day, I had gotten to one of the shelters and I was just stopping at one of the shelters and gonna have lunch.
Speaker 2:So I had my little peanut butter tortilla and getting ready to have my lunch and I'm by myself, and up the trail comes a guy and I recognized him instantly from, you know, from the Facebook things, because he was a taller Asian man, which again was pretty distinctive, and it was that guy ice.
Speaker 2:So here I am, my first day, back on again, knew all about what he had done, knew everything about him by myself, and so I'm like, oh man. So I packed up not kind of nonchalantly, packed my lunch stuff back up, shoved it back in my backpack and I said, oh, if you're looking for water. You know what's way down there, it's like way down the hill. So I wanted him to kind of move away from me a little bit, packed everything up and I started walking kind of way faster than I wanted to. Again, I didn't have trail legs and I'm scooting down the trail trying to put distance between he and I and I. There was another another man sitting on a log happened his lunch Maybe a mile down the trails and I was walking faster than I should be for that time oh.
Speaker 2:I saw him sitting on the trail and I'm like oh my gosh, can I sit here for a minute? I said I'm exhausted. I said I don't know if you know anything about this guy ice. But he was just on the trail for me and the man said oh yeah, you need to keep space between you and him. He goes sit on the rest for a minute and he goes walk with me the rest of the day.
Speaker 2:I'm a 30 year old, I'm a 30 law enforcement officer, oh, and so I walked with him the rest of that afternoon and then I could get kind of bump, keep bumping into this guy ice back and forth, but not, I wasn't completely alone. And so you know, people kind of look out for each other, yeah, and it's it's a little bit of a. It's kind of cool how the communication goes up and down the trail like that. And the guy that I sat with, his trail name, was big, hungry, big age, everybody has trail names there, and so right away he's like rest a little bit, have lunch and walk with me the rest of time, because you really need to put space between you and he, this guy, and I'm like, so that you know. So that was actually pretty nice to.
Speaker 2:Oh, I did hike with this guy, so he's he ended up being the oldest through hikers at his trail. Name is nimble will, yeah right. And so I sat with him at mountain crossing and sat with him for one day while I was coming down from Hypothermia from a pouring rain day, and sat and warmed up.
Speaker 1:He's the oldest, he's, he's all. What? How old is he? 82, I think. When he's the oldest that holds the record for it to do doing the whole thing, yeah, I said a whole day with him and talked to.
Speaker 2:He told me so many great stories. You know he's like oh nice, all over and he was a purpose could be. You know, he just, he's just a great guy, but he's hyped basically his whole life yeah not a cool characters.
Speaker 1:So we could just keep going on and on here. I mean, it's amazing You've got so many cool stories. So just to sort of wrap up, what would you say to somebody that Wants to go out and have have an adventure, whether it be on the Appalachian Trail or the Kamino or do something like that in a similar fashion? What would be some things you would say to them? Number one I would say do it.
Speaker 2:You know, just just go ahead and do it and and prepare for it. You know, prepare logistically because I think your stress level goes down when you have an idea what's gonna happen and prepare for it physically if you can. You don't have to be a superstar marathon runner to do these things, but you have to know a little bit about what you're getting, what you're getting into. You know and adjust. You know I cannot do the same things now that I could. When I was 21, I've run many, many marathons, but I couldn't run a marathon now, and so you sort of have to adjust To where you are physically, mentally, age wise, and then you know what. Enjoy it. Just enjoy every step of it.
Speaker 2:You know, every time I hike I'm like could be my last one. I could have 20 more in me, but every time I hike it could be my last one. I don't know, and it could be. I have, I have poor health, it could be my husband has poor health. How many more times am I gonna be able to take a month away from my family? I don't know, but how many times is anyone else gonna be able to take time away?
Speaker 2:You know I do it whether you're 18 or whether you're 88. You really just have to go for it. You know, and I always think with my family, I try to make it as comfortable and I try to be as considerate of them as I can, and For them 30 days is about as much as I dare push it and that seems to work out okay. I don't get a lot of pushback from them, you know, if I'm gone that amount of time, but it gives me enough time if you want to travel to Europe or do some of these bigger things, where to just go for a week, the logistics and the cost is too much.
Speaker 2:So, I would. I guess I would say any age group, whether you're over 50 or whatever. It is number one. Just to do it and don't wait for all the cards, for all the stars to line up, because they're not gonna.
Speaker 1:You just have to go ahead and do it, and that's true about so many things in life, isn't it? I mean, you know you just waiting for that perfect time is not necessarily gonna come there's no such thing.
Speaker 2:Just go for it and then adjust as you go. You know. You know the same things you could do a decade ago. But it's okay, adjust, maybe change your goals a little bit and just love every minute of it, because you know you can do it again, you know.
Speaker 1:One final question I like to often Wrap things up with when you think about a meaningful, meaningful, moxie, filled life, what comes to your mind?
Speaker 2:Well, I guess for me is I have to be a nature, I have to be I, I it's, I'm called to that I, if I don't get back out in nature, I feel, you know, kind of kind of stifled a little bit. But I think it really has to do with balancing your family, whatever that means. Balancing your family and keeping their concerns in check and Putting out your own independence in your own, your own happiness. You can't, you, I don't. For me, I can't say, well, I'm gonna do whatever I want that makes me happy, because that's not gonna be good for my family, but my family also isn't gonna say, no, don't, don't go hiking. No, don't go, don't, don't do that, because we'll worry about you.
Speaker 2:You gotta find that balance and I think that is not to do with what you are in your own personal situation, but you've got to find the balance between fulfilling what you want and Considering others and not harming others in the same way. And that's what I do is balance what I need and what makes me feel just so good With with my family. I said I'm totally committed to my family, but I also have a little bit of vagabond in me, you know absolutely, and you can combine the two and you can, and you can balance it and sometimes you know Shift a little bit this way or that way.
Speaker 2:That that's kind of what it does for me, because I get so much out of nature, I get so much out of it, but I also get so much on my family.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I gotta do both.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you have found a really good balance, a really good blend of the two?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I have, but you know that will have to adjust to. You know exactly, and it's a dance.
Speaker 1:Yes, you have to. Definitely a dance. Yep, you have to adjust. Well, julie, I've so enjoyed this. Immediately when we met, I was asking you all these questions.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I knew we're gonna go on to in your son just like the AT, didn't he?
Speaker 1:Yes, he finished it. He finished in August, and so it was quite the adventure for him and he met so many amazing people, just had so many you know a cool things happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you'll be doing the commino next year, so we'll get to talk.
Speaker 1:Yes, have to compare notes. That's the plan anyway. Yeah, yes, well, listen. Thank you so much again for chatting. If this podcast was valuable to you, it would mean so much if you could take 30 seconds to do one or all of these three things Follow or subscribe to the podcast and, while they're, need a review, and then maybe share this with a friend If you think they'd like it. In a world full of lots of distractions, I so appreciate you taking the time to listen in. Until next time, be well and take care you.