A chat with the Appalachian Trail's fairy godmother, Miss Janet

You don't have to be a hiker to feel the magic from this episode. When Janet Hensley and I sit down to chat, it's not just a conversation; it's a passage into the heart of the Appalachian Trail community.  Miss Janet, the trail's own fairy godmother, opens a world with tales of generosity and the transformative power that comes from a  love for nature and the hikers she encounters. 

Our journey navigates Janet's early beginnings, where hikers passing by her childhood home sparked a connection that would define a lifetime of adventure and altruism.
You'll hear about the ever-evolving culture of the trail—from its humble roots to the vibrant hive of activity it is today. We cover the significance of trail names and how social media shapes the modern hiking experience, ultimately revealing how the journey's challenges lead to profound personal insight.

Find Miss Janet at the links below.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/themissjanet?mibextid=ZbWKWL 

IG: https://www.instagram.com/themissjanet? igsh=MTE2ZWRqMmJmMXMOMg== 

Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dexterontheat?_t=8juzHtKPYsw&_r=1 

Venmo: https://venmo.com/u/TheMissJanet 

 **The information provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute  legal advice;  instead, all information, content and materials available on this site are for general informational purposes only. Information on this podcast  may not constitute the most up-to-date legal or other information. This podcast contains links to other third party websites. Such links are only for the convenience of the reader, user or browser.    

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

So are you looking for more inspiration and possibility in midlife and beyond? Join me, leslie Maloney, proud wife, mom, author, teacher and podcast host, as I talk with people finding meaning in Moxie in their life after 50. Interviews that will energize you and give you some ideas to implement in your own life. I so appreciate you being here. Now let's get started. It really doesn't matter if you are into hiking or not.

Speaker 1: 0:32

You will be spellbound by my storyteller guest this week, the legendary Janet Hensley, the Appalachian Trail angel, the ultimate fairy godmother, but with a southern twist. She hangs out near the Appalachian Trail helping out hikers and she is famous for her generosity and kindness. It's her calling. Miss Janet. With her colorful outfits and welcoming smile, is the guardian angel of the trail, making sure everyone has what they need to keep on trekking. Whether it's a ride into town, a hot meal or just some good old-fashioned advice, miss Janet is always there to lend a hand. She embodies the spirit of the trail. She embodies the spirit of the trail, showing that kindness and compassion go a long way. I feel so lucky to have been able to sit down with her. This truly is an amazing human, and I got so much from our conversation. I think you will too. So thank you so much, janet, for being here today. Yeah, thank you for asking me. Give the audience a little bit of background about you, know who you are and what has brought you to this point in your life.

Speaker 2: 2:03

Wow, oh, you know, know, they say you need an elevator speech. That's about four or five sentences, you know, that explains your, your cause and what you're doing. Boy, that's hard to do. That's hard to tie 30 years up in just a few minutes.

Speaker 2: 2:18

But, um, yeah, I found this trail totally by accident, when I was a child and we had moved close to a trailhead and during the day my mother would be out in the yard and hikers would walk by on their way to town, and and we learned real quick. You know what Appalachian trail hikers were, at a time when most people in the community didn't have a clue. All it was was homeless people walking around as far as they were concerned. And so right away, my mom's interest introduced us to people that their stories were just like different. They were from other places, they weren't from here. They had stories, they had been places, they had educations. They had very different socioeconomic and religious backgrounds and for a kid living in East Tennessee in a community like this, it was such an amazing, refreshing outlook on the world. It made my world as a kid look so much bigger than the people around me.

Speaker 2: 3:23

And so I did the grow up, get married, come back home a few years later and there were more hikers than I'd ever seen when I, when I was growing up.

Speaker 2: 3:32

So I just started picking people up and giving them rides and you know they say you got to be careful if you let strays follow you home because they don't ever go away and you've got to feed them. You know, because they don't ever go away and you've got to feed them. You know it's it's always going to be a thing. But, um, I tell people all the time I found the trail at a at a period of time that I had very little personal time and very little adult interaction. You know, between working with children and raising children alone as a single parent, I I didn't have a lot of extra time. So that one day a week that I got started working with Appalachian Trail hikers here just right here in my backyard, kind of saved my life in a lot of ways. And you know it's been one of those things that over the last 30 years. You know I'm not pull away a little bit thinking that I'm going to go in a different direction, but the trail always calls me back.

Speaker 1: 4:31

Like it does for a lot of people.

Speaker 2: 4:33

It is you know, it's just like spring or fever. People don't realize you don't have to have hiked the entire Appalachian trail for things like spring or fever, you know, and that excitement about the beginning of the season and the stories, you know it's, it's very contagious and addictive.

Speaker 1: 4:51

So for the listeners who aren't familiar so much with the Appalachian Trail and the hiking, who doesn't know about Springer and Appalachian Trail, the Springer Mountain is where the Appalachian Trail starts in Georgia, north Georgia. It goes all the way to Maine and Mount Katahdin, maine, and it's 2,200, a little over 2,200 miles, correct, I think this year's official mileage because for some reason we really really, really like those 0.7 kind of things in our in our hiking world.

Speaker 2: 5:24

So I think this year it's 193.7 miles, I think is maybe the official mileage. I'd have to check that because it changes ona regular basis depending on on things that you know are being worked on or relocations of the trail, you know, or new sections that are being built. But um, yeah, it's uh almost almost 2200 miles from, you know, springer mountain, georgia, just north of atlanta, to katahdin, just south of the canadian border yeah, and so you were a little girl and you were seeing all these people going by your house, right by the trail.

Speaker 1: 6:03

That's what planted the seed meeting all these people from all over the world. Certainly the country and it really it really opened your world up, broadened you, I imagine, in a lot of different ways oh, absolutely and then you. So then you move back a few years later, I don't't know, a decade later, something like that. I don't know how long were you away.

Speaker 2: 6:28

About 10 years that I was, you know, going to school, working on a degree in special ed and early childhood development. I had a child care center. I was raising children. I was a PTA president. You know I was a mom and that was my. You know, that was my full-time, double-time job and, looking at, you know, becoming something with initials. You know, like you know out, I was maybe a better case study than a student when it came to most of my abnormal psychology.

Speaker 1: 7:13

So you know, but the trail for all of us at different times.

Speaker 2: 7:18

But one of my favorite bumper stickers on my van because my van is covered in memes and bumper stickers. You know that that make you smile or think. You know because I was doing that a long time before people started making memes on Facebook. I was in love with with uh bumper stickers and one of my favorite bumper stickers says we're all here because we're not all there.

Speaker 1: 7:40

I love that. Yeah, I've been a big bumper sticker fan too and never thought about it that. Yeah, those were like the first memes really.

Speaker 2: 7:48

Definitely were.

Speaker 1: 7:49

You found yourself back in Eastern Tennessee and you start working.

Speaker 2: 7:53

And I had one day a week to be an adult and I spent a lot of time hiking on the Nolichucky River, doing whitewater rafting, camping, hanging out, because I didn't have time to develop a real social life. I only had one day, so in that I immediately started meeting people on the trail that needed a ride to town, that needed to go to the grocery store, and for years I did that on my weekends as often as I possibly could and then slowly started working with some of the local hospitality businesses that were starting to open between Hot Springs and Damascus. You know, new hostels were opening and I was interested in what they were doing. And and, uh, it was. It was a real interesting.

Speaker 2: 8:44

You know, the early the late 90s, early 2000s were a very interesting time when things were, the numbers of people hiking were starting to grow and the services available and the services that hikers were demanding was starting to change drastically from the 20 years before 2000. So, uh, I got real involved in that and then one day I said, you know, uh, I think maybe I want to do this and I had certain places that were just special to me. Uh, one was um, there was a, a place called um. Um. Well, elmer's sunny bank in in hot springs, north carolina, is one of the oldest hospitality situations on the entire trail. He runs a very, very savvy chic um interesting bed and breakfast and in a beautiful old historical home um, and he's been there for 30 plus years now.

Speaker 1: 9:47

So now isn't he in his 80s now, or something like?

Speaker 2: 9:49

that Is he the gentleman? Okay, yes, and he had quite an effect on me because being able to sit down at a table and enjoy his amazing food and his formula for putting people together that don't know each other and that have come from all over the world and are sitting down together and getting them to to interact and get to know each other and I loved the way he did that and adopted a lot of his way of interacting with hikers, which I've never gone wrong with. We were Southern all the way, but I did open my own place and I opened in 1999 and started hosting hikers very accidentally. It wasn't on purpose, because I was very much a den mother with my children.

Speaker 2: 10:49

We didn't have sleepovers in our house. I didn't have friends in my house. I didn't have, you know, I didn't date, so I didn't have men in my home. My house was pretty much a fortress for my children and I was never much of a housekeeper, so I wasn't somebody that wanted people just dropping in on me and it was very accidental that I brought the very first hikers into my home to spend the night and it it was a joy, it was, it was hard and it was and it was awkward and it was wonderful and in a couple of months I started making the plans to start to open my own place so you talked about the formula putting people together.

Speaker 1: 11:36

To what can you share what that formula is?

Speaker 2: 11:40

oh the. The very first thing is you have to come at this particular kind of business from some degree of service. You have to want to be helping somebody, because if you're just doing a hospitality business, and those are just customers and they're just numbers, that's a completely different business. So most hiker hostels bed and breakfast, bunk and breakfast, like I had is definitely a service to the people that are hiking the Appalachian Trail. So Elmer taught me to interact with people individually and then to put those people together and watch them interact with each other. One of the the unique ways that he did that was his meals were family style sit down, everyone together, everyone at the same time, and if you were going to be staying there, that was part of your stay.

Speaker 2: 12:51

So a lot of times hikers want to, you know, jump up like they're at a hotel and get a shuttle to the trailhead and start hiking by 6 am and I'm not that, I was never that, I was never that place, and that was something that I learned from Elmer that an hour sitting down and having breakfast with people that you have not really had a chance to talk to yet was a remarkable way for people to start getting to know each other and to start understanding the community that is the Appalachian Trail community.

Speaker 2: 13:20

One of his favorite things that he did was and I used it and still use it, I still use it in the van driving around with people is giving people a chance to answer some silly question, like, if you were a famous work of art, what would you be If you, if you have been famous for 15 minutes in your life, what were you famous for?

Speaker 2: 13:46

And you can make that up if you want, because it's just for my entertainment, you know, but people introducing themselves and saying where they're from, and maybe a little moment of saying what was your high of yesterday on the trail and what was your low and what's your goal for tomorrow. Yesterday on the trail and what was your low and what's your goal for tomorrow. And it just it created a set of circumstances where a meal became an event every day and it's been, you know, thanksgiving, you, you kind of got a little bit of that, because Thanksgiving is very much the way I did my home every day and you know it was casual. Everybody pitched in, everybody helped out and you you put people together. You know to, you know enjoy that sense of community that is so special.

Speaker 1: 14:43

Yeah. For for those of you who didn't get the reference there, myself, my husband and my son we went to Miss Janet's Hiker Thanksgiving this year, which was so amazing. Our son completed the AT last summer. We've known about the AT, we've even done little small sections of the AT, but I had no idea the community and the extent of the culture of the Appalachian Trail, and so we got to see a little piece of that at Hiker Thanksgiving and I think there were 75 people there, something like that this year. I mean, we like to do it every year. It was so much fun.

Speaker 2: 15:20

I love it and you know and there were people there that have been doing it off and on for the past 10 years since we started doing it annually For the. You know for the 20 years before 2013,. This was the 10th anniversary in Hot Springs, you know for the 20 years before that. You know I would have people just come to my family Thanksgiving. If you know, I would pick up Southbounders and take them to my family Thanksgiving. If you know, I would pick up Southbounders and take them to my family Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2: 15:47

One of the things that happened so special for me at Thanksgiving this year was a message that I got from a young man right before Thanksgiving and he said 25 years ago I was alone in the woods and was going to be alone in the woods having a ramen bomb for Thanksgiving. And you came and scooped me and my friends up and was going to be alone in the woods having a ramen bomb for Thanksgiving. And you came and scooped me and my friends up and took us to your daughter, to your sister's house, where a hundred of your closest family was having Thanksgiving and I had your sweet potato casserole with toasted marshmallows on top and I'd never had that in my life and I loved it. It was my favorite dish at Thanksgiving. He said so the next year at home.

Speaker 2: 16:32

He said I've only missed one Thanksgiving in all the years. You know, however old he was, I've only missed one Thanksgiving in my life being with my family, and I was with you that year. He said so that year. I go home to my mom and I go with my family, and I was with you that year. He said so that year I go home to my mom and I go. There's this thing called the sweet potato casserole and I need you to make Miss Janet sweet potato casserole for Thanksgiving. And she did. And he said what you don't know is that for the past 25 years we have Miss Janet's sweet potato casserole every year.

Speaker 2: 17:02

So I thought that's beautiful you know you, you're talking about one moment in a lifetime that turns into something that you're part of someone else's. You know memories and tradition, and it was.

Speaker 1: 17:17

It was priceless yeah, and I, and I would venture to say that you have a lot of those that you probably don't even know about, because the community that you are creating and, and and you know, I think, a lot of the reason why I mean, in general in society, I think we're lacking community and and people want more connection, and I think that's one of the reasons why people go out on the trail and they certainly find that community and you and others like you are are setting the table so that those things can happen. That is, that is huge.

Speaker 2: 17:52

Oh, I was telling a story about my I attempted a long distance hike and I actually did over 400 miles. I wasn't unhappy with my performance in 2011. And I walk into the first shelter where I'm going to be spending my very first night as a long distance hiker on the Appalachian Trail, and I'm with two friends that have come to join me for that first night because they've known me for years and they want to be there. So we walk up to the Stover Creek shelter and there's a half dozen hikers there and I know four of them and, uh, you know we're sitting there talking and chatting back and forth and you know we've got stories that we're, you know, telling and, you know, obviously jovial with each other and it's obvious that we know each other and one of the hikers that's sitting there that is new and that this is his first time on the Appalachian Trail and he's brand new to the to to the trail, to the activity, and this is his first time on the Appalachian Trail and he's brand new to the trail, to the activity, and this is a little before social media had made the trail as interactive online, it was still. You know, trail journals and a couple of websites, you know, and not a lot of interaction. So we're sitting here and he's watching us back and forth, back and forth, and he's like stop, wait a minute. He says we just started today. How could you all possibly know each other?

Speaker 2: 19:16

And I'm like, well, because this trail community is not just the people doing a long distance hike in any given season.

Speaker 2: 19:27

It's the people that may have never hiked, may be dreaming of hiking and everything in between. It's service providers, it's trail angels, it's, you know, it's just people that fall in love with the outdoors, being on the trail, everything that a long distance hike is inside each individual person and the fact that we are a huge, huge community of very extroverted introverts. A lot of people on the trail are looking for that community and it's so hard in the real world because they they're not going to go to the bars, they're not going to go to church, they're not going to join clubs of things that they're not particularly interested in, and those communities don't always exist in those other activities. You know you can. You can be a football player, you know a football fan, and go to all the tailgating parties, you know that your favorite team has, and enjoy that sense of community for a couple, a couple of hours, but that's when it ends. It't continue off of off of that moment.

Speaker 1: 20:41

It doesn't become part of your life, the way the Appalachian Trail experience creates community for people yeah, and you make a really good point about I don't think people realize it's it's, it's there's the hiking going on, but it's all that support that is around the hiking, hikers and the hiking, like the trail angles, like like these little small towns along the way that have trail days and different things like that. I know our son said it was amazing he, when he needed something, somebody appeared and it wasn't just him experiencing that, everybody was experiencing that to some level it is, it is um, it's way beyond.

Speaker 2: 21:26

It doesn't make any sense and it's real hard to explain to people. When we say things like the trail provides it, the world doesn't provide you. If you lose your spoon, you know going to work, you're going to have to go find a spoon because you're not going to just be gifted a spoon from the Appalachian Trail but on the AT you can lose a spoon and use sticks for a day or two and sit down on a rock one day and there'd be a spoon laying there. Or come walking through the, through the trees in Pennsylvania and find a hand-carved wooden spoon hanging in a tree. That that's there for you and that's the kind of providing and that people don't understand.

Speaker 2: 22:12

And then the other part when we talk about trail magic, I talk about two kinds of trail magic. I talk about trail magic and the magic of the trail. And the magic of the trail gives us a kind of trail magic that is a beautiful sunset that takes your heart away, um? A. A moment of conversation beside a fire that makes you feel connected to, to human beings. A? Um, a moment of vulnerability, you know, on the trail where you have to ask for help. These are all things that you know is hard to explain to someone that hasn't done this yet.

Speaker 1: 22:53

Yeah and this warms my heart.

Speaker 2: 22:57

Not everyone on the Appalachian Trail, um, in the, in the, the community around the hike and around the trail, and that's everything from the trail clubs and the people building and maintaining the trail to the organizations that are tasked with with, you know, protecting the trail and keeping the trail safe and funded. Um, you know, there's there's layers of those. But then the individuals. You know that the individuals that are not part of organizations, they're just, you know, they, they, they want to be a part of this activity, regardless of whether they're hikers or not. And I tell people all the time that every parking lot that you hit along the trail, every website or Facebook page or group, or your followers on your YouTube channel, all of these people have an interest in what you're doing and they become the booster club. They become that.

Speaker 2: 24:06

I call it trailgating. They become the people that are putting tailgating encouragement out there for people. They're the ones that put their phone number out there so that they can be available if someone needs something in an emergency. They want to be involved and they want to be encouraging and mentoring or they just want to watch. You know a lot of people. A lot of people go to the Boston Marathon and throng the sides of the street to watch people run. They're never going to run a marathon, they're not going to run across a Walmart parking lot, but they can be very invested in what you're doing and be there to cheer you on and encourage you and help if you need it. And I think that that's one of the things that people do find surprising.

Speaker 1: 24:55

They don't realize how prevalent and how important it's going to be in to their hike, at least at some points and it sounds like it's grown over the years and it continues to grow and there's more people that want to get involved and help. Let's talk about trail names and some of the different trail I mean. So you want to explain that to people who don't know that are listening.

Speaker 2: 25:21

You know, somewhere along the way it became a tradition to have a nickname on the trail.

Speaker 2: 25:28

You know either a name that you came to the trail with, that you wanted people to be called, because for a lot of people, you know, especially back in the in the 70s, going to the trail wasn't as much of a social pilgrimage as it is today. There were much fewer people. They were definitely more the same about the experience than is different, but it was still different and one of the things was there was people hiking more alone than they do today and really looking for that experience since hiking, you know, all over the world has increased is the connectivity and the access to information through social media and the internet. And you know, we started seeing things pop up in commercials back in the 80s, you know, or in the 90s. But I was going to hike the Appalachian Trail and it's like they said Appalachian Trail, you know, or questions on Jeopardy that were the answer was the Appalachian Trail. What is the Appalachian Trail? And people are able to learn about it and find out, you know, get connected to that along in a way that they never could before.

Speaker 2: 26:57

And one of the things about long distance hiking. Every year I attend the Appalachian Long-Distance Hiking Association gathering and this year was was 27 years that I've gone to. This weekend get together of the all of ALDA and some of the people that I get to see there every year it's like a family reunion are people that are the first people to hike the trail. I met earl schaefer there many years ago. Um, the first person to ever do the entire blatchen trail in one year. Um, I go back there every year to be reminded that our family on this trail is very deep. It goes back generations. I'm on my third generation of hikers. You know I had a kid that hiked this year. I had a kid that was hiking and when he introduced himself to me he told me who his, who his mother and father were and it was like so touching because his mother and father had met at my house 25 years before and had gone on to, had gone on to to build a life together and have children and raise a family and raise a thru-hiker and that was just. That was just remarkable.

Speaker 2: 28:24

And but the connectivity and you know the community growing is definitely you know social media has has been the biggest thing the connectivity that our cell phones give us, you know, the ability to you know to be more real time with with people that that we, us, you know the ability to you know to be more real time with with people that that we're, you know, working with and helping or you know want to support on the trail. You've got groups and organizations and clubs that you know want to share the joy of this trail with their members, whether they're hikers or not. So a lot of church groups and scout groups and women's clubs and you know town, you know committees that put together events and things for the for the trail. So so definitely, you know, while there's always been a very, very strong core group of people that have stayed involved with the trail from the first time that they hiked it. You know we have people that, like like Elmer and and like Warren Doyle, and you know some of our hikers that are, you know, 50,000 plus mile hikers on long distance trails in the United States. They've, they've never gone away.

Speaker 2: 29:41

So, while most people will do the trail and it's a one and done they will hike the Appalachian Trail, mark it off their bucket list and go on to something else in their lives, a lot of them never really leave One of my memes that I did about 10 or 12 years ago. It was a beautiful little stretch of the trail up here, above, above, you know, here in Uniqui County, and I just said you can leave the trail, but she will never leave you and that's really true for a lot of people, yeah some people will look at it and they don't get it.

Speaker 2: 30:14

And then some people look at it and they know exactly. They know exactly what it means. Another one, another one of my bumper stickers says the Appalachian trail ruined my life, and some people look at it Well, how rude. You know that's so horrible. I'm like, yeah, because you don't get it yet. You don't get it yet that the rest of your vacations, for the rest of your life, will be revolving around your sections on the Appalachian Trail that you still need to do.

Speaker 2: 30:42

I know people that have taken 40 years to do the entire trail. I have watched families, you know, come to the trail and two or three years later the kids are coming back to do a solo hike on their own. You know, the family hiked together five years ago and now you know the kids are coming back to do another hike on their own and that community continues to build and I don't see it changing, because people go back to that real world and they often have a very hard time with depression and with getting back into their normal routines, because life on the trail and along the trail is a completely different creature than what most people have ever experienced, and while they find it very reassuring and comforting and fun, and you know, they get to meet a lot of people and get to use those trail names because that's what we were talking about as a a little bit of a buffer between them and the real world. You know, if I have a trail name and you don't know my real name in the real world, then I can be something different on the trail. I can, uh, I can, I can try out. You know I tell people all the time I'm, I can try out.

Speaker 2: 32:02

You know I tell people all the time if you're not a really pleasant person to be around and your family has told you to go take a hike because you're not a very pleasant person to be around, if you come to the trail and you change your name to, you know, fart Blossom and you decide that you're going to fake being nice, you can fake being nice for a couple of weeks and it might catch on. You might actually enjoy being a nice person. And you know trail names give people that a little bit of anonymity. It gives them a chance to say something about who they are. Bit of anonymity. It gives them a chance to say something about who they are. You know. It's like you know if, if you got a trail name like fart blossom, it's definitely because you have some gastrointestinal problems and other people have noticed um and you don't really.

Speaker 1: 32:54

Most people don't? Most people don't name themselves right, right, most people get named.

Speaker 2: 33:00

It's about half and half and it always has been about half and half. Some people love the tradition of getting named on the trail. Unfortunately, most of the names that you get on the trail are because of something you did wrong, something stupid, something ugly, sometimes something. You can't actually use that trail name in public and then your trail name has to have a name for it when you're in town, because it's not a nice name. So accepting a name that someone gives you on the trail.

Speaker 2: 33:32

You know, because you fell and face planted, uh-huh, you're going to be face plant. You should be face plant now. You're going to be face plant for the rest. Be face plant Now. You're going to be face plant for the rest of your life because of a fall, because you stumbled and hit your face. Nothing exciting, you know. But if you name yourself something, you know that means something to you. You know, if you call yourself, you know Phoenix because and no one has to understand why you call yourself Phoenix but you know what you've been through and what brought you to the trail and what you're hoping to accomplish by a long distance hike, and the reason that you chose the trail named Phoenix for yourself is exceptionally personal and matters to you yeah so I definitely have seen both ways.

Speaker 1: 34:28

What are some of your and I do? One of the things about the trail is people are out there for a lot of different reasons and there is transformation happening for them, whether that was their intention or not. So for some it was and for some not. Whether that was their intention or not. So for some it was and for some not. What are some of the stories that stick out for you as far as those things that you've witnessed with people?

Speaker 2: 34:48

Of long distance hikers on the Appalachian Trail. I can look at a group picture of 10 people standing around my van, you know, from 20 years ago, and go. This story, this story, this story, and you know I can tell you the story of how they came to the trail, wanting to be an uber-duber, you know athlete, and wanting to, you know, hike the trail as fast as they could, because they were expected back at work or their family had only given them permission to be gone for three months. And you know they come to the trail and it's just something they're going to get done, it's a thing they're going to conquer and accomplish, um, and and they find out that hiking's hard, that that camping is hard, that the weather's hard, that the terrain is hard. You know that, that there's a lot of things about it. That's very difficult and it also gives people so much time with themselves and in their own head and in their own heart that a lot of people become very vulnerable. And that's not something that they expected. They thought this, they thought they were athletes and that this was just another athletic event. You know that they did not expect things to start being important to them in a way that it does. Um, so I have watched so many of those stories that I it's one of the things we were talking about. If I ever start finding a way to share these stories there's no shortage of stories I'll give you one quick one and I'm not known for quick stories, sorry.

Speaker 2: 36:32

I had a gentleman who was staying at a local business and found out we were going to be doing a birthday party for one of his fellow hikers and wanted to come and join us for dinner and birthday cake and hanging out around the fire for for the birthday party. Um, so, you know, even though it was going to be, you know, like at seven o'clock and he was used to going to sleep at eight o'clock he came to the cookout. We had a beautiful evening, we had a nice meal, we had you, a couple of different people had cooked and made cakes and we had this amazing, amazing, fun evening with about 15 people. And at some point he got really, really, really this is 30 days into his hike and he was getting very, very antsy and getting very frustrated and and a little, a little rude and he's like well, this is just totally unacceptable. I, I, you know, I'm in bed, I want. I need to be in bed by eight because I need to start hiking at six in the morning. You know, and I've got you know. You know, and this is just you know, half of these people aren't even going to hike tomorrow. Now that they've done this, this is just, you know, this is unacceptable. I need you to take me back to my, to my room, because I'm ready to, you know, to go to sleep and this is, this is ridiculous. And he left with me a little angry and we tried to talk about it a little bit and he was just, you know, in his in his late 50s, newly retired from a very, very demanding office job that he had held for many, many years, he needed, he needed a long-distance hike very much and his long-distance hike that he had in his mind was not exactly what was happening and he was very angry about it, very frustrated about it and, um, not very he was, he was, he was really having a hard time with the fact that so many other people were not as worried about his hike as he was. So, you know, I said goodbye and wished him the best of luck and never dreamed of seeing him again.

Speaker 2: 38:44

30 days later he was in Northern Virginia and came back to Trail Days in Damascus, virginia, and I'm sitting at the at my drum circle and bonfire. That I was. That I did for 25 years. And I see this man dancing around the firelight to the drum beats and to the shouts and yelling of, you know, everyone having a good time around the fire and I'm watching this guy just dance, dance, dance around the fire and he's wearing all red and he's wearing a big red umbrella and he's using the umbrella to dance in the rain around the fire. And he comes around the fire and comes and turns around and looks at me and I recognized him and I'm like oh, oh, wow, hi, how are you doing? Where did you come from? Because it had been a long you know, it had been a month since I had seen him in the Damascus area, so I knew he had come back from the hike and he said we'll have to talk later.

Speaker 2: 39:55

Later we did get a chance to talk and he said that there was a lot of things that a lot of people had said to him and a lot of anger and frustration that one day he just hit a wall and said this is not for me, home doing yard work and, you know, spending time with my wife and my grandchildren and, and you know, doing something else. But this isn't, this isn't what I want to do anymore, because I don't like the way other people are doing it and I. It's not working out the way I thought it was going to work out. So he said I think I'm going to go ahead and, you know, get off the trail. But he still had to get to a road crossing that he could make those arrangements and get off the trail. He didn't say what, but something happened and there were three or four days that he ended up in a couple of places that he had to sit and watch people and talk to people. I think he had an injury that he had to deal with for a few days and make arrangements to get home.

Speaker 2: 41:04

And something clicked and something changed and he said why don't I try just having a good time? Why don't I try cutting back my mileage a little bit and maybe just try to try to have a good time and see what happens? And he said it. It worked. He said because I'm still hiking just fine, but I'm hiking much happier and in a much better frame of mind and with a group of amazing people that I never would have met doing the trail the way I was doing it and um and it was.

Speaker 2: 41:41

It was remarkable to see that. Now, what was really remarkable to see that was, five years later to be sitting at a picnic table in Maine, at a restaurant in Monson, right before the 100 mile wilderness, and that same gentleman walking over and sitting down and saying I bet you don't remember me, but I said I bet you I do, and telling me all the hikes that he had done, all the trail magic that he had done, all the support he had provided for others, all the mentoring that he had done for people wanting to do long distance hikes, and all the things that he had changed in his life to revolve around the trail. And one of those, one of those was to move to the end of the end of the trail where he could look at katahdin on a regular basis.

Speaker 2: 42:29

So it was pretty remarkable and that again, that is one story of thousands, of thousands, because so good I think, I think a lot of people will finish the trail and don't necessarily, you know they don't stay active in social media, you know they don't talk to, you know they don't stay plugged into the community, but they still have that core group of trail family that they stay in constant, regular contact with, sometimes for the rest of their lives and um, and that you know, that's definitely, you know, one of the transformative things that I've seen. Um, I've definitely have seen people that were, um, not healthy, that became healthier, um, I'm not saying that. The Appalachian Trail is actually a very good fitness plan because you get in really good shape, you lose a lot of weight and then you start losing all your resources and you start losing all your muscle and you start going the other direction. Before you're finished, your body is used up and you start, you know you start going the other direction. Before you're finished, your, your body is used up and you're exhausted, um, and then you go home and you eat like a hiker and you gain all the weight back and another 10 pounds to go along with it. So you start this cycle of of, you know, activity and extreme, extreme activity and extreme weight loss, and and you know athleticism and then you go all the way in the other direction. So sometimes it's not always, it's not always the most positive thing. Sometimes the transformation is maybe something in your heart and mind that you that you were headed in one direction in the real world. But I'm going to stop and do the AT before I go to law school. And then you do the AT and you never go to law school.

Speaker 2: 44:29

And I had a had a gentleman contact me years ago about his son who, well, he, he took a gap year and did the AT, but he's now. But now he wants another gap year because he wants to go make snow and become a snowboarder in Colorado. He says, but he needs to get into school because he's going to. You know he needs. He's not going to be competitive and he's not going to be. You know he needs to get into his law program because this is a third generation, you know family of attorneys and he's when? When do you think he's going to come back to normal? When do you think he's going to buckle down and do the things that he needs to do? And and I hated telling them that he might not ever um, that maybe, maybe that wasn't his, and maybe the trail led him in a different direction. That was better for his life, or at least his choice. And in that case, in that case, 20 years later, the guy still never went back to law school.

Speaker 1: 45:36

He never did, and so having that time in nature is so, so important Among all the other things that are happening on the trail as well, you know I, there are so many different layers and so many different aspects of a long distance hike.

Speaker 2: 45:58

You know that time in nature, that pushing your body and learning how to move, and you know learning how to deal with your fears and with your insecurities of being out there hiking and backpacking and being in the woods and being alone for many, many hours Because no matter how crowded people think of the trail, you're alone.

Speaker 1: 46:25

So, janet, tell us you're gearing up for a new season, a new hiker season, and what does the season look like? What does a typical day look like for you once the hiker season, and what does the season look like? What does a typical day look like for you once? The hiker season really starts kicking in, which is sort of like april right mid-march.

Speaker 2: 46:39

April is when the hikers are coming out for many years I've had a happy new year is march 1st. Um that, 20, uh, 23 years ago there was a group of people online and this was on before, before social media, but on some some websites that were available, you know that were interactive to some degree, a whole lot of people decided oh wow, there's so many people going to be on the trail this year there's. It's going to be so crowded in april. We're going to start in march. So they started this huge movement that for months they planned it march 1st, march 1st. We're going to have a march 4th on the at. We're going to march 4th and you know there's going to be this huge group of people that are going to start in March, the first week in March. And it was a big deal because that was not normal. That was really early Didn't mean that we didn't have people that have always hiked through the winter.

Speaker 2: 47:44

We've always had people starting on January the 1st. We've always had a number of people you know January, february starters and March starters. Number of people. You know January, february starters and March starters over the last 20, 23 years, since that group of 2000 hikers really pushed that envelope back to the first of March. So now we have people that start in numbers from the middle of February. There will be numbers that start every day all the way through till the end of April.

Speaker 2: 48:20

So what time does your day start.

Speaker 1: 48:21

I mean, what's a typical day look like for you?

Speaker 2: 48:25

You know a lot of people don't understand that I'm that, I'm kind of, I'm not really a business, but I do provide services for people when needed and when I'm able to do so. So I try not to schedule a lot of things that will make me unavailable to the person who needs me organically. I like being able to be there and someone go hey, this is my third day Be there and someone go hey, this is my third day, my shoes are killing me, I've got to get new shoes or I'm not going to be able to walk another day and I want to be able to help that person right at that moment, not tell that person that, oh, I've got three shuttles lined up and there's nothing I can do to help you, I'll call someone else, that I'll call somebody else that can come and get you. If I want to spend four hours on the Springer parking lot doing a pack shakedown, I don't want to be interrupted because I have to leave and go to the airport to provide a shuttle service for someone. So my day generally starts at about 6.30, 7 o'clock in the morning. You know.

Speaker 2: 49:34

With just trying to become a human being, mornings are not my forte. For many years with Lyme disease, I had a parasomnia sleep disorder that created major problems for me early in the morning and as I've gotten older and with some of those problems that are still chronic, I have to have some time to wake up and get going. But you know, every single day can be completely different from the day before. And if I start, I go to Georgia the first day of March and my very, very, very, very first day may be taking, you know, some people to Springer to get started and you know that I've collected along the since, since the first time I ever drove to Springer mountain with a hiker back in the late eighties. Um, that's just been a really, really, really hard to beat emotional moment and I am definitely an emotion junkie and and I I love that feeling of excitement and enthusiasm, you know, and determination and it's amazing. So my day may start.

Speaker 2: 51:03

You know driving people to Springer, you know getting them on the trail, taking their beginning pictures, and you know doing those last little. You know tweaks on packs and and you know a couple of little odds and ends that are in my bounce box that they might need, that they've forgotten. You know batteries or gloves or a hat or something, and then they continue on the way and then I may, you know, have get a phone call from one of the ridge runners that there's a hiker in trouble. You know that that is going to be at a road crossing. Can I pick? You know, have get a phone call from one of the ridge runners that there's a hiker in trouble. You know that that is going to be at a road crossing. Can I pick them up and help them? And it may be anything. It may be that they're sick, it may be that they got to the trail and realized that they forgot their tent, you know, and now they're getting ready to what am I supposed to do? I don't have a tent because I left it laying on the kitchen counter in Albuquerque, new Mexico. So you know, it can be anything. It can be, you know, injury, illness.

Speaker 2: 52:03

You know I had a gentleman call me and go, I need you to meet me at this road crossing and I will pay you whatever. You need to meet me at that road crossing. But I need you to meet me at that road crossing with a pizza, a beer and two cigars and I will pay you for the pizza and beer and two cigars. He says but I need that. I happen to be in town at the time I got the phone call, so I'm like I don't know you, you know, and this is your second day on the trail, but I did it and I was really happy. I did it because it made him really happy that I did it, because he thought he was just going to throw it out there and see what happened. And the fact that I was actually able to make that happen for him, you know, was a bonding moment for us and it was also just, you know, just a fun thing to do and a fun thing to be able to do for someone.

Speaker 2: 53:11

So then, you know, I might, I might have to go a hundred miles, you know, to take someone to an airport, to put them back on a plane going home, because only a few miles they've realized this isn't the appalachian trail on the brochure everybody talks about.

Speaker 2: 53:28

You can do it straight off the couch and just go, hike and the trail will train you. And I said, yes, that's true, but you still have to be able to start from a point of being able to walk a distance and being able, you know, to to be outdoors and to take care of yourself. And some people find that they can't do that and, uh, no matter how much they had romanticized the idea of doing a long distance hike, that they're not going to be able to do it the way they thought they were going to be able to do it. Those are hard. Those are hard because often you know, if I pick that person up two days before and I drove them to Springer and told them goodbye and sent them off with some hand warmers for that first cold night, and three days later they're calling me to leave their adventure that they had planned on being out there for six months, it can be very, very, very difficult. I want to be able to be organic and able to do those things for as many people as I can.

Speaker 1: 54:33

You're so present, you have to be. I think the thing about that is you are so present with people and I noticed that about you when we met. You're very, very present to whatever is going on with these people and you truly are a blessing and an angel in the true sense of the word.

Speaker 2: 54:55

That's very good, that it works that way, because what most people don't understand is that it doesn't matter what I do for someone, it doesn't matter what I've been able to you know, to provide as service or treats or trail magic for people over the years. I have gotten it back from all of them and I get it back from people I've never met before. You said that you know there's, there has to be, stories of. You know that I don't even know about, of of things and moments that have mattered to people, but that's that's I've become.

Speaker 2: 55:31

I loved hearing about it in the very beginning, in the very, very beginning, when someone would tell me a story about what they you know. You know I was at your house and you gave me a new pair of shoes and you know I've never forgotten about that or whatever happened, and it would make me really happy to hear those stories. And it would make me really happy to hear those stories. But now, especially with social media and Messenger and you know being able to find people and with the public aspect and of long distance hiking, that is new in the last 20 years. You know the fact that people know people that have hiked and can see their pictures and look at their videos and all of that interaction and people find me that maybe hadn't you know that that I haven't seen in 15 or 20 years and it happens on a very regular basis.

Speaker 2: 56:24

It is one of my favorite favorite motivators and adrenaline rushes and uh, what is it? Uh, serotonin moments for me is it's like getting a hug. You know I'll get a phone call, I get a message, I get a, I get a text, I get a, uh that just says you know, thank you for that water you gave me at that road crossing, you know, 15, 15 years ago. And you know, thank you for letting me come into your home when I was sick and stay there for weeks. All these things are things that I get back. I get back when I'm doing it and I continue to get back and receive the blessings from the small things that I can do.

Speaker 1: 57:14

Yeah, yeah, well, and it is so true that the more we give, the more we get back, and so that's that's really what you're describing there on steroids, on steroids on steroids yeah um, because part of you know, part of you know what.

Speaker 2: 57:30

What does my year, my year, look like? You know I I never. You know I never really. You know, when I got into this whole Appalachian Trail thing, I had children and a home and I was stationary and you know I didn't, I didn't have the luxury of living the lifestyle that I enjoy now. Um, now, a lot of people don't look at that lifestyle as anything they would have any interest in doing. Some of them think they do, and then I'm like, yeah, no, you probably don't want to live my life at all, it's you don't want to.

Speaker 1: 58:10

It's made for you. It's made for you.

Speaker 2: 58:13

Or you know, someone asked me one time that was very concerned about the fact that I have no money and the fact that I have no savings and I have no assets and I have no credit history. I don't really exist in the real world the way most people exist in the real world, and they were like, well, do you make a living doing what you do? Do you, do you make a living? And I'm like, well, do you make a living doing what you do? Do you make a living? And I'm like, wow, I don't think that I make a living by anyone's standards or definition in the real world, but I've made a life. I've made a life that has made me exceptionally rich and has given me so much that I can't imagine getting that satisfaction from a nine to five job doing something that that maybe I don't enjoy doing.

Speaker 2: 59:08

Um, it doesn't mean that this trail stuff is not hard. It's not. It's frustrating. Um, sometimes it can be very trying and difficult and, uh, you know there's there's a lot of I mean there's a lot of people out there and every single person brings their own expectations and baggage and and and personality to the trail. They also bring their problems and their issues A lot of times that they're trying to overcome on the trail. The last time they shot up heroin was in the bus station, getting on the bus to come to the Appalachian Trail to try to kick a habit that was going to kill them. An older police officer with PTSD that you know comes to the trail to try to find, you know, some peace and healing and you know, but is maybe not a very nice person and maybe you know it's not, maybe maybe their hike is more important to them and the way they're treating people causes problems for other people.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

So there's always, you know, the dynamics of a group of people coming together. We're not all the same. We're not all the same backgrounds, we're not all the same socioeconomic categories, we're not all the same educational backgrounds, religious backgrounds. You know we're not all the same socioeconomic categories. We're not all the same educational backgrounds, religious backgrounds. You know we're not all the same race. We're not all the same sexual orientation.

Speaker 2: 1:00:41

It's a very, very mixed bag of people who end up coming to do long distance hiking. It doesn't make any real sense, you know it's not. It's not just granola crunching hippies or athletes or, you know, whatever it's. It's a real mix of people and that that creates, you know, a lot of um constantly changing dynamics among people and, in so besides, people just learning to live on the trail and learning to, to take care of themselves on the trail and to take care of the trail and to protect the asset and to protect the resource that this Appalachian Trail is in all of our lives, and how to deal with the leave no trace issues and backwards ethics of how do we have shelter, etiquette, hostile etiquette, how do we interact with people. So there's a lot of things that come into play that I deal with on a daily basis.

Speaker 1: 1:01:55

Well, you are amazing, you are just amazing. Janet and I were talking before we started recording. She's thinking about doing a podcast and I was like, oh, you've got to do a podcast. She's got so, so many stories to tell and we've just sort of scratched the surface here. And we could keep going on and on and I and I don't want to take up any more of your time, but I I do have a final question for you. Actually, I've got two. I've got two for you. First one is what would you say to your 20 year?

Speaker 2: 1:02:30

Oh, my 20-year-old self. My 20-year-old self thought that I was a more worldly person than other people because I was the first person in my family to to be something and do something different than most of my family had any understanding of. Um, they couldn't understand the quality, the value of education. They couldn't understand why I would want to do this. Um, you know, and then my life goes the same direction that that most girls my age that lives, you know, in rural country USA. I married my, I got pregnant and married my high school boyfriend and we started the family route at 20 years old. Um, at 21. And my daughter's birthday's next week, you know. So the big 4-0's coming, the big 4-0's coming up. And that blows me away because my 20-year-old self, having that first baby, could not see 40 years in the future. I couldn't see what the future held and what was where I was going to be at this point. But your question is what would I tell my? My 20 year old self, my 20 year old self would would say tell Tony that you love him very much, but that you're going to go for a long hike on the Appalachian Trail. And you know, get to know yourself a little bit and get to see part of the country and and then maybe I'm going to travel. You know you're, you should go and you should travel and you should go to different places and you should go see these things that you've read about and things that you've enjoyed in movies and and you should go meet people that speak different languages and and you should see this world before you become a mother and start a family.

Speaker 2: 1:04:35

And I have to worry about a mortgage and school and schedules and work and life, and I don't regret my children. I don't resent that. I had my family at a young age, but it's hard to have both. It's really really difficult to to do those things when you do have the responsibilities of a family and and I think it's one of the reasons I enjoy seeing my families on the trail that are out there with their children having those experiences together, because that wasn't something that that I could have even dreamed of doing with my children.

Speaker 2: 1:05:18

Um, I I didn't know how, how to be that kind of a parent, but I enjoy seeing that with other people. So I would tell my 20 year old self to go live a little bit, have some adventures, you know, uh, get to get to see the world a little bit and uh, you know that there would be time for that family and uh, you know, and who knows what direction I would have been in, don't know all right, here's my final question what does a meaningful, moxie filled life look like to you?

Speaker 2: 1:05:54

oh, pushing yourself to live outside of your comfort zone. Um, a lot of women have come to the trail in the last, you know, 10-15, 15 years in record numbers. And so often they were they were me, they were, you know they were either expected to go into a career or a business or start their family and they never had that opportunity and maybe they were afraid. You know social media, you know the. The whole social perception of going into the woods is. You know that it's dangerous and it's scary and that you should carry a gun and you know that you should be afraid. And watching these women accept that challenge and come to the trail and sleep in that tent that first night that they've ever slept outdoors by themselves in their entire lives, that's moxie. You know. Watching that person that fell and broke her arm and is wearing a cast, continue to hike day after day after day only able to use one arm, or watching that person lose a partner on the trail and have to continue alone and on their own, that's moxie. You know. Watching that attorney that will walk away from his, walk away from his career path because it's not serving him, serving his needs, and come to the trail or go to something else and find something that gives meaning to his life, um, that makes him happier than he ever would have dreamed of being Watching people that are just willing to put themselves out there for other people, put themselves in situations that might be a little uncomfortable, challenging, and it doesn't have to be a long distance hike. It doesn't have to be a long distance hike, it doesn't have to be a um through hike by any means. Sometimes it just means that they're willing to take themselves and put themselves in a different situation and be there and enjoy it or feel or go through it. Or, you know, we use this. You know misery loves company. You know, and especially with things like the Appalachian Trail, a lot of people have never walked for four hours in the rain. A lot of people have never, you know, had to poop in the woods. A lot of people have never had to deal with those things and as they face those challenges, it does things. It does things to them and if they're able, you know. So the, the moxie and meaning.

Speaker 2: 1:09:08

I think in meaning and moxie it's kind of like the same. Every single person that I've met coming to the Appalachian Trail has their own expectations, criteria, reasons for being there, just to make that first step and declare to yourself, to your family, to your friends this is what I'm going to do. I am going to go hike the Appalachian Trail. That takes a level of moxie on so many for so so many people, because most people are not. Most people are not greeted when someone says I'm going to go hike the appalachian trail, their family and loved ones don't look at them and go. Well, that's awesome, that'll be so much fun. You just have a great time and we'll make sure you know we'll.

Speaker 2: 1:10:08

Most people don't have that. Most people go. You're what? Are you going to carry a gun? You know it's definitely takes some moxie to want to do something that you've never done before. It takes moxie to do something that is so out of your everyday reality, of your life. You know one day you're in a. Know you're in a 5,000 square foot. You know home with you know six bedrooms with bathrooms and a palatial yard. You know an orchard in the backyard. You know hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cars in your driveway, millions of dollars in your bank account. Putting a pack on and walking off of springer mountain takes a moxie. That anyone is going to.

Speaker 1: 1:11:03

It's pretty much the same for everyone so you are a witness to this yeah, you are a witness to this every single day and and your meaning and moxie that you bring to each and every situation. You are a blessing, and you to all the people that you encounter. I, I so appreciate your, your stories, your vulnerability, and you just make the world a better place just by being in it, and so I really it means.

Speaker 2: 1:11:36

It means a lot because it it means a lot. Um, this community has has been exceptionally important in my life. Um, it would have been important in my life if I had gone in another direction. You, you know, with a, with a, a real career and um, you know, maybe some different initials in front of my name, but this is, this, is the. This is the thing in my life that keeps calling me back, um, and getting ready for, getting ready for a couple of events coming up over the next few weeks. You know, helping people get ready for the trail, sharing stories and experiences and delivering unsolicited advice to people.

Speaker 1: 1:12:26

Tell people how they can get a hold of you. Where can they find you on social media?

Speaker 2: 1:12:33

Oh, I'm pretty easy to find. It's actually kind of fun. I'm Googleable. You can Google the Miss Janet Appalachian Trail and you'll find out all kinds of things about me. I didn't even know we're there. Someone said, well, we didn't have your address and I said I'm not going to give anybody my mailing address. I said the very few people that get my mailing address know where I'm at. I don't need them to know where where they can find me. I need to know where I can find them, but they don't need to know where they can find me. Um so, uh, it's this kind of interaction and a chance to share with someone else these stories um is is just priceless and I appreciate you asking me to to participate with you today well, I, I, the pleasure is all mine.

Speaker 1: 1:13:25

It really is all mine. My heart is really full having this chat with you, so so check out miss janet. You can find her on facebook and uh, miss Janet, what's your? What's your, what's your contact on Facebook? Just just Miss Janet you know, just just Miss Janet.

Speaker 2: 1:13:45

I have another Facebook only allows you 5,000 friends and you know they don't understand that. I have a lot more people that I want to stay in touch with and see their kitten videos and watch their kids go off to school. You know, I don't want my personal profile to be a business. I want it to be where I can interact. It's where all my cool kids live. You know, it's my, it's my black book, it's my address book. So I need I need to keep that. But I also have a Facebook page called I think right now I had it's Miss Janet Shuttles, so it's it's another way to reach me. I'm on Instagram as the Miss, the Miss Janet, and I do a lot more of my photography there. I also Dexter also has a TikTok channel, so he's kind of a big deal on the trail, so he has his own TikTok channel, so he's kind of a big deal on the trail, so he has his own TikTok channel.

Speaker 2: 1:14:36

That's her dog everybody, so I'm pretty easy to track down.

Speaker 1: 1:14:46

And we'll put all that in the show notes. I'll put some of those links in the show notes so people can reach out and thank you again so much. This has been such a pleasure.

Speaker 2: 1:14:52

And we wish you all the best and and and.

Speaker 1: 1:14:55

We'll be watching for you out there on the trail.

Speaker 2: 1:14:59

I can't wait and please, you know, if, if any of you have heard this podcast and see me on the trail, you know, let me know that that's where you, where you heard me and cause I think it's kind of fun, it kind of you know, kind of tells how our lives and you know your story and your experience on the trail and your family's experience on the trail connects with me and connects with other people, which makes this tapestry of a trail where we're all threads that are part of the story and and.

Speaker 1: 1:15:33

What a rich tapestry it is. So we'll be looking also forward to hearing about your podcast soon too.

Speaker 2: 1:15:40

It'll probably be called the People Are the Trail.

Speaker 1: 1:15:45

I love it. Love it Well. Thank you again, and I'm going to wrap things up. Thanks for listening everybody, and be well and we will talk soon. Bye, now. If this podcast was valuable to you, it would mean so much if you could take 30 seconds to do one or all of these three things Follow or subscribe to the podcast and, while there, leave a review and then maybe share this with a friend if you think they'd like it. In a world full of lots of distractions, I so appreciate you taking the time to listen in. Until next time, be well and take care.