UFO Investigator Extraordinaire: A Conversation with Bill Fisk

 I sit down with UFO Investigator Bill Fisk, to unravel the mysteries of unidentified flying objects and their profound impact on our world. Bill, a beacon of knowledge in the UFO community, takes us through the transformative history of MUFON. Together, we dissect the classification of close encounters and shine a light on the training of new UFO investigators in documenting these sightings.

The discussion turns to the government's recent disclosures of UAPs, making us ponder the potential of off-world activities. Our conversation dances on the edge of skepticism and belief, as we consider how the narrative of unexplained aerial phenomena has been interwoven into the tapestry of human history.

Closing this episode, we delve into the personal accounts of a dedicated UFO investigator, examining the cultural and philosophical ramifications of extraterrestrial life on our human belief systems. If the mysteries of the skies stirs your spirit, you will love this conversation!



Bill Fisk Bio and Contact Info.

William (Bill) Fisk was born in St. Cloud, FL and became interested in the UFO
Phenomena when he was 13 years old. Working with APRO- The Aerial Phenomenon
Research Organization until it was changed to the Mutual UFO Network in 1972. Now he is a certified Field Investigator and also a State Section Director for MUFON. He also
runs a Meetup called Space Coast UAP Investigations. This meets the first Wednesday
of the month and then also meets on the third Wednesday of each month. The effort is
aimed at finding out what it is in the skies that our government wants to keep quiet.

Bill's email - wafisk61@gmail.com


 **The information provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute  legal advice;  instead, all information, content and materials available on this site are for general informational purposes only. Information on this podcast  may not constitute the most up-to-date legal or other information. This podcast contains links to other third party websites. Such links are only for the convenience of the reader, user or browser.  

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

So are you looking for more inspiration and possibility in midlife and beyond? Join me, leslie Maloney, proud wife, mom, author, teacher and podcast host, as I talk with people finding meaning in moxie in their life after 50. Interviews that will energize you and give you some ideas to implement in your own life. I so appreciate you being here. Now. Let's get started. Hi Bill, thank you so much for being here today. So glad you could be a guest on Meeting Amox after 50.

Speaker 3: 0:38

Well after 50 has finally allowed me to do things that I couldn't do before.

Speaker 1: 0:47

So this is great. Yes, and isn't that the truth? Yes, we, we we're just getting started when we hit 50. Yeah, so I wanted, I wanted to tell everybody I know Bill um, and this is I don't know if I said your last name Bill Fisk. I know Bill from many years of working locally in our area on conservation issues and always known him to be such an interesting guy, into a lot of different things.

Speaker 1: 1:15

And one evening we were setting up for a meeting, a conservation meeting, and I was asking oh, bill, you know what have you been up to lately? And he said, oh, I just came from my MUFON meeting. And I was asking him oh, bill, you know what are you? What have you been up to lately? And he said, oh, I just came from my MUFON meeting. And I said MUFON, what's MUFON? And then you explained to me which we'll. We'll talk about what that stands for for those who don't know in a moment. And I was so intrigued after that and I kind of like did a double take, like whoa, I want to talk about this. And then our meeting was starting like 10 minutes later and so we never got a chance to circle back around so fast forward to now. I have this podcast and I immediately thought of you and I thought, oh, I need to have Dolan as a guest. So tell us about what MUFON stands for, and then let's get into how you got involved in it.

Speaker 3: 2:07

Okay, mufon is a mutual UFO network. Now we got to jump back to 1972. At that point there was the Midwest UFO Network and a group called APRO, aerial Phenomenon Research Organization. All right. Apro was national, midwest UFO was the Midwest, and that was it. And Carol Rizan, who was head of APRO her husband had just died and she couldn't take care of all of it and the guys at Midwest UFO Network said, well, you know, let's, you know, put them together. And that was the creation of the Mutual UFO Network.

Speaker 1: 3:03

So it was a group of people in the Midwest and at that time you must have been living up there in the Midwest. No, you were down here.

Speaker 3: 3:11

I was living in St Cloud.

Speaker 1: 3:14

Okay.

Speaker 3: 3:15

And about 63, 64, I read the Interrupted Journey. I read the Interrupted Journey about the hills and their encounter. I became fascinated with it.

Speaker 1: 3:35

Okay, for those who are listening that might not be familiar. Can you give them a little summary?

Speaker 3: 3:40

They were the first people to really go public with a UFO encounter we would now call it a CE4, a close encounter of the fourth kind. J Allen Hynek, who was part of Blue Book, which was an Air Force group that was supposedly investigating UFOs, came up with this list CE1 was just a gee, that's a light in the sky. A CE2 was oh, that's an object, that's not just a light. Ce3 wow, wait a minute, that that's round, that that's not an airplane. And ce4 was oh, wow, it's on the ground. Look at that is that?

Speaker 1: 4:35

is that the highest level that you can get?

Speaker 3: 4:37

no, we're now going to ce5, which is a not only an encounter, but an interaction with an alien. Okay, so back in the day we investigated ufos because you got a postcard in the mail that said this incident happened on this date, which could have been three or four months before, in your area. Could you look into it?

Speaker 1: 5:07

okay, so so you this network started, and then people, you all are talking this is pre-internet, so I'm sure it was yeah, very difficult to communicate, like compared to now, and then each one of you, depending on where you were living, became sort of the block captain, if you will. For any unusual sightings or reports.

Speaker 3: 5:32

So we would do that and you would write it up, put it in an envelope, stick a stamp on it and send it to them.

Speaker 1: 5:40

Okay.

Speaker 3: 5:41

Well, eventually, you know, we got to the internet. Now we get them in. You get email notification from uh. The contact management system, which is a at the current moment, is totally, uh, unusable because somebody tried to um hack which is not unusual. It's been hacked four or five times that I can recall.

Speaker 1: 6:10

Okay.

Speaker 3: 6:12

And there have been ups and downs with any organization. One of our executive directors went to meet a 12-year-old girl in a mall eatery and wound up with the sheriff's department.

Speaker 1: 6:32

Uh-oh.

Speaker 3: 6:32

Yeah, so they were in California at the time. Now they're in Cincinnati and things seem to have leveled off and they're going along and actually doing UFO investigations and not pedophilic messes and so got rid of that and the state groups are beginning to come back okay by that I mean we actually have a state director from the state of Florida, state director for the state of Florida, bobby Hewitt great guy.

Speaker 3: 7:10

We have a chief investigator, steve Foss, who's a former police officer, and they kind of okay. He's got three cases. We'll send this to this one and as we get new people in to investigate, I'm helping one guy over in the Naples area just kind of get the feel for how to do an investigation, how to get the forms all filled out. And believe me, there are forms now, as with everything. Believe me, there are forums now, as with everything. We go through and investigate not only just the lights but anything else that goes on. I had a case down in South Florida that was left over from one of the rocket launches. It was the plume that was floating south and somebody was paying attention in the sky and they went. That's not normal. Okay.

Speaker 3: 8:15

So they sent in and it was fairly easy. It was two hours after the launch and the winds were blowing so much an hour and you put them together and, okay, that was a rocket plume. But I had one up in North Brevard. The lady was walking back from the Dollar General and she saw a triangular UFO. Well, we have a lot of those anymore and we classify them two ways. It's either a alien craft, because they don't make any sound, or they're one of ours that makes a hum. So we have triangular craft and TR-3Bs. Tr-3bs are manufactured probably by Boeing or Grumman or one of those, and the military uses them. We get a lot here because we have the two test ranges, one in Ocala and one in Avon Park, and we see they come in towards Ocala and they come out, or they come in out of Avon Park and going across to the Atlantic. So those are the knowns. We know what they are.

Speaker 1: 9:46

Can I stop you there?

Speaker 3: 9:47

Boy, we could go so many different directions. I could do that.

Speaker 1: 9:52

No, I mean, it's just so interesting and you have so much knowledge, decades of knowledge here that's just rolling off your tongue. This MUFON group is non-government right. The government is not involved. These are citizens, people that have come together to track, and there's decades of data from what you're telling us. Does the government try to interface with you all?

Speaker 3: 10:20

Sort of they ask that anything that appears, especially landings, they would like to know about it. And we keep telling them well, if you open up with some of the stuff that comes off the military bases, we'll happily be more compliant be more compliant.

Speaker 3: 10:44

I'm sure that the information is obtainable by the government. Just by going hello and somebody will go. Oh yeah, let me click that button and send it to you. But amongst the investigators the government doesn't interfere that much. I've had one incident where a couple of nice lieutenants showed up at my door to ask me how I got the information. There was an incident off the coast where the guy saw the light was going up. Light was going up and come down. A little while later the light would come up and go down and come to find out it's helicopter testing for new rotor blades off the coast and they're doing the radar checks on them. Well, that's nice. It would have been nicer if Patrick had bothered to say to say, yeah, that's what we were doing, don't worry about it right, I, I could line it up so that the government wasn't involved.

Speaker 1: 11:54

There wasn't any top secret stuff, but they don't want to do that so I've always known you to be a very rational, reasonable, left hemisphere thinking kind of guy. It's been my experience with you. What originally got you involved with this sort of thing?

Speaker 3: 12:20

I used to have to go with my mother because she didn't like to drive to where her beauty shop was. So there I would sit twiddling my thumbs and and they had all sorts of magazines and all sorts of you know just stuff to keep everybody occupied.

Speaker 1: 12:40

And in fact, Bill's turning around looking for something on his desk here. You should see he's got a whole wall of books behind him. Listeners, he's showing us the book Flying Saucers.

Speaker 3: 13:01

That was the sort of thing they had. I became fascinated, as only somebody, almost a teenager can do. And then I found out that I could become a member of APRO, the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization, and I had to get my mother to write the check for, uh, six dollars. Six dollars and a one cent stamp.

Speaker 1: 13:31

Off it went and that's how it all started. Huh, that's how it got started and I have been following it ever since.

Speaker 3: 13:41

I've got probably a full bookcase of books on it. I have a full collection of DVDs that have switched from 35mm to the VHS and now to DVD that I have been collecting over the years. Have something close to 70. Wow.

Speaker 3: 14:11

And right now we're using those for the Space Coast UAP Investigations Group, which is a group that meets at a barbecue place here in town that has a meeting room. We meet twice a month, show a DVD, have a discussion. Sometimes it stays to what the DVD was and sometimes it goes off into far out space and we have people who come out and they've experienced something and they've been holding it in for years and they start to feel comfortable with the group and they come forward with it. Um, we had one who wound up after she presented to us somebody mentioned it to the orlando sentinel and the orlando sentinel showed up and filmed some of us eating away and talking and you can find that on their website. Uh, it's uh, aliens in my backyard.

Speaker 1: 15:23

Okay, okay.

Speaker 3: 15:25

And we, and then recently with the brush interviews and everything at Capitol Hill, Channel 35 came out and filmed us. So we have become known to people I.

Speaker 1: 15:47

I think that and you mentioned, you mentioned the acronym u is ua, uap.

Speaker 1: 15:53

Yeah, uap is no longer right, it's no longer ufo anymore, it's really uap, that's unidentified aerial phenomenon phenomenon I noticed, um, because I followed this a little bit, and um I, so I noticed that change and there's there's been, especially that this last year or two there's been a lot of stuff, as you well know, that's come out into the mainstream media about this issue and I think a lot of folks are not sure what to believe because there's so much misinformation in the media. So I think everybody's going what should I think now? And why now? Why now are they releasing this information? Is this a distraction? Go ahead.

Speaker 3: 16:39

I have a feeling that it's a distraction. I'm not sure what the left hand is doing. The right hand is not giving a whole lot of information to support this stuff. We had the wonderful and supposed disclosures at the Capitol. That was well known. I mean part of the problem is that the um navy bucked the trend and released.

Speaker 3: 17:09

The um tic-tac incident is that what's it called again, the tic-tac okay yeah, you might know the candies right well, the objects that were harassing the Navy off of Long Beach looked like a tic-tac, except that they could move at Mach 25. They could go from air into the sea and back up and not lose any speed. They kind of anticipated what our pilots were doing Well, I don't know whether that was a black funded project for somebody and started bugging you know billion dollars worth of naval ships off the coast. And then we had an incident off of the East Coast with the Roosevelt carrier group and it's called the Gimbel incident, and here we had a bubble with a cube on the inside of it and the cube would shift direction and then it would go off in that direction.

Speaker 3: 18:37

I had an investigation that I did out of Ocala with a very similar thing that the guy saw at night. So it wasn't up close and everything. It was up in the air. And it was rather interesting that all of a sudden three, four weeks later the Navy comes out and says we had this incident too on the East Coast. They've had the same tic-tac incidents over in the Middle East. I don't know if you saw it. Recently we had a jellyfish like object going through one of our bases over in Iraq. Jellyfish objects had been seen before, usually going over bases, us, british, russian, russians tried to shoot one down. It didn't do any good.

Speaker 1: 19:46

So it's when you say jellyfish, it looks like a jellyfish and it kind of hovers.

Speaker 3: 19:52

It just kind of floats along and you can shoot it, you can do whatever you want to do it, it doesn't stop, it doesn't change it, and then it just disappears. It doesn't go to ground and fall apart, it doesn't rise up, it just it's gone. So are we dealing with multidimensional things or are we just dealing with optics? What are we dealing with?

Speaker 1: 20:22

And no answers, nobody's come up with an answer yet, right, and that, and that's what I feel when I read about some of these things. I, I, I think, or is this just a black ops program? Because we, we've had, I think we've been developing technology like this for decades, and I, I'm sure we have. There's things that we, we do and have that we have no idea. Yeah, and so are we just seeing some of that and it's interacting with the mainstream world, if you will? Or, like you say, are we dealing with something else that is trying to be known to us, but it just seems to be more and more that we're hearing about it.

Speaker 3: 21:08

And I don't know if you were aware of David McKinnon over in England who broke into NASA's websites and found an interesting designation. There were a group of ships listed and a group of naval officers for off-world activities now say, okay, back that up, say up, say that again, say that again.

Speaker 1: 21:43

I got to register.

Speaker 3: 21:45

Off-world activities.

Speaker 1: 21:48

And he found and this is something he found on the NASA he hacked into NASA.

Speaker 3: 21:52

Yeah, and they're still trying to get him over here to try him, but they haven't been able to yet, and that goes back 20 years. We had people saying I've been hypnotically regressed and I show things that are off world a guy by the name of Tony Rodriguez oh yeah, I know who he is, yeah, right, yeah serious colony cavalier, and he was out there and then they put him back in his 12 year old body mm-hmm well, let's try to stretch it a little bit.

Speaker 3: 22:41

But when you look at the history of UFOs and it stretches back millennia. We have seen pictures and descriptions of things. And then you go forward. It looks like now. Now it started in the 1890s. There was the great airship mystery, where flying things were seen and people couldn't identify them. This was before hindenburg even thought about going up in a blimp, so we got that. And then there were reports during World War I of craft following pilots. 1920s we have the first alien autopsy. That's the paper that the prints came from, the machinery that's in use. All checks out for the early 1920s. You go forward. First one that we've identified in America is the Cape Girardeau crash. That was 1940.

Speaker 1: 23:59

Where was that?

Speaker 3: 24:01

Cape Girardeau, missouri. Okay, was that Cape. Girardeau, Missouri.

Speaker 3: 24:05

And then there were several incidents during the war the great Los Angeles shootout, where they fired off a couple of million dollars worth of shells at this thing and nothing happened. It kept floating along and they keep saying, oh, it was a weather balloon. No, you blow up stuff right beside a weather balloon, it's going to fall down. So we got that. We have reports from Guadalcanal where a guy sitting in his foxhole, he looks up and he sees a V formation of circular craft, wow. So then we go forward a little bit more to 1947 and we have the Roswell crash. We have, right after that we have the another crash and you keep talking to people and the stuff they come up with is like, really you think I'm that stupid and that's kind of the attitude the government has taken. Now, into the 50s we get that complex that Eisenhower warned us about, the military-industrial complex yes, well, we found evidence and documents that state the depression complex that Eisenhower warned us about, the military industrial complex.

Speaker 3: 25:38

Yes Well, we've found evidence and documents that state that the president doesn't have a high enough clearance to know what's going on.

Speaker 1: 25:44

And that's pretty much out there in the mainstream. That information now yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:51

But that's the kind of mentality that's been building. But, that's the kind of mentality that's been building, and they don't seem to want to give up that power. The great comment is well the people would go nuts. No, I don't think so.

Speaker 1: 26:17

They haven't gone nuts with all the other stuff that's going on.

Speaker 3: 26:19

Finding out that there are aliens is gonna push them over the edge. We're not right.

Speaker 1: 26:24

I mean it's so awful, like like in the movie contact, when the main character goes.

Speaker 1: 26:30

It's an awful big waste of space if we're it yeah and of course I also feel that, with the way things are going, the aliens fly by and lock their doors yeah, so you're, you're saying and, and and you're not the only one, I, I think you're saying let me, let's, let me put it that way um, what I'm hearing is that it's beyond the president, we're talking the CIA, we're talking that, and those that are associated with them is really who's rocking and rolling with this?

Speaker 3: 27:03

Yeah, they're in charge Now. In 1957, the CIA came up with a deal and the best way to handle the UFO because they were going nuts trying to handle it. Cia came up and said it's simple, Just tell these people they're nuts. And that's been the routine going forward.

Speaker 1: 27:31

Yeah, and we have been conditioned. We've been conditioned to kind of snicker about it, laugh about it, and it's definitely a socialization. But at the same time, I think many of us are sort of going Whoa, I think there may be something here as well.

Speaker 3: 27:52

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:53

So how did you now? Now you must have encountered that as you got more and more involved in this world, and then people found out what you were into. How did you deal with that?

Speaker 3: 28:05

I deal with it by just saying flat out okay, then what are these people seeing? Then what are these people seeing, you know, big triangular craft flying over your head. That's not mental. And then these people have. We had one deal down in South Florida. It flew over North Dade and the Coast Guard picked it up on their radar. Well, they had I think it was 68 different phone calls to 911 about what was this thing that went over. Different phone calls to 911 about what was this thing that went over.

Speaker 3: 28:57

The response from the military was it was a swamp gas say that again, it was a what it was a swamp gas now I thought that went out in the 50s uh, huh but the answer to that is no. The Coast Guard still thinks that that's a valid response in the year 2015.

Speaker 1: 29:22

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 29:25

And I'm sure it's some officer who's impressed with his rank and he just blurts out what first comes to mind and okay we'll remember that. So yeah, tell him something, tell him something yeah, and I keep going back to the good old Roman thing of bread and circuses.

Speaker 1: 29:57

When somebody sees something let's say, tonight I see something in the sky and most the average person is going to call 9-1-1 with that information. Is that what happens? Quite?

Speaker 3: 30:11

often they think it's an airplane in trouble.

Speaker 1: 30:15

Okay.

Speaker 3: 30:16

Because it's low to the ground, it's not making an airplane noise. You know it's no engine noise, no jets running. Quite often they are brilliant colored. So you know, first thought that comes to mind flames, and they've had. When we do an investigation, one of the things we do is similar cases and quite often you will find this case has been reported from Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, nothing in Alabama but North Florida, Central Florida and off the coast. And could check with a group at FIT that tracks space junk coming into the atmosphere. Nope, wasn't that. Check with the Meteor Society. Nope, wasn't the meteor? Okay, Check with 24-hour rad and that tracks all of the airplanes that are in the sky that are squawking and no, nothing coming from texas, that angle. So okay, what was it?

Speaker 1: 31:47

so I'm trying to understand your how it lands on your desk. So the average person is going to call 911. So if they don't do anything else with what they've seen, then it's probably just going to die right there on that. So if they, know about MUFON, then they can get on the MUFON site. Fill out the information and then you all will contact them.

Speaker 3: 32:08

Right.

Speaker 1: 32:08

Is that how it works?

Speaker 3: 32:10

They fill out the form. It says Florida. Okay, it goes to Florida and.

Speaker 3: 32:16

Bobby Hewitt and Steve Foss get together and go. That's this agent's area, so they will send it out. I'll give the folks a call or I'll send them an email first, because cold call like that tends to have people go click and hang up and ask some questions why were you outside, what direction were you facing? And we're finding now with a lot of the younger people, when you ask what direction we were facing, they have no clue. They don't know east, west, north, south. So then you have to kind of work it out for that. But every once in a while you will get this call and they will say you know, it was a bright light, it was coming towards me, and then it disappeared. And then you open up the map of the area and there is a general aviation airport. And then you look at 24-hour deal and, yep, there was a plane coming right at that time.

Speaker 1: 33:34

So what he was seeing was landing light so what would you say, percentage wise, the average? Call that you get the average you know. Report that you get. How long does it take you to to run it down?

Speaker 3: 33:51

usually a week, because I sent an email two days to get a response. While I'm waiting for the response, I'm looking up air flights and all of that sort of thing and then when I get answers to the questions I had on it because sometimes they're very on it, because sometimes they're very, very general, you know, yeah, it was coming at me. Okay, which way were you facing, which way did it go? Because you could pretty well narrow that down to the airplane or whatever. And especially during covid, we had a lot of people who were home. They weren't going out partying, they weren't going out to dinner, they were outside. Oh, what's that? And we get a lot of them with SpaceX launches, when they start releasing their little satellites, because they travel in a group.

Speaker 1: 35:01

Yeah, oh yeah, the Starlink yeah.

Speaker 3: 35:05

Yes and we get calls on those all the time. Sure. And we haven't had as many lately because we retired the SR-71s. But the SR-71s used to generate calls because it's way higher than the normal jet plane mm-hmm it's not making any sound because it's too high up for the sound to come in, and every once in a while the sun will reflect off of them, and so and yeah we had with the early starlings, their solar panels links, their solar panels when they would come just right over the horizon.

Speaker 3: 36:01

They could blind you and people had not been looking up. Now I did have one lady. When I told her what it was, tell me flat out that it couldn't be because her pastor said they weren't flying or anything like that. Okay, and then we have a standard rule, because I know this is going to surprise you, but we have people who have issues and the aliens are coming through their window and having sex with them, or they're coming through and peeking at them while they're in the shower and they need you to come out to the house. Well, number one, we don't go to single females' houses and try not to go, when it sounds like that, to a couple's house, just because there's no sense in getting involved in that sort of thing.

Speaker 1: 37:05

Yeah, so you have to weed that out, and I would imagine there's probably some people that are playing with you out there and just kind of sending in reports, people that are playing with you out there and just kind of sending reports.

Speaker 3: 37:18

Now that we have all of the photoshop equipment that is cheap. I basically look at pictures and, okay, give me some facts, because that picture could be ai generated. In fact we had one. Everybody got all excited about it until I noticed that the palm tree kept showing up Same palm tree. I mean, palm trees look kind of alike, but not that close.

Speaker 1: 37:44

Your investigative skills must be so strong after all these decades and I'm sure you have a protocol you go through with each one of these reports to run it down.

Speaker 3: 37:57

You read the description and go well, that could be, that has a possibility to it. Or you read the description and go what, go what? That doesn't make any sense, because line one and line four were written on two different subjects, and so then the questions get a little tougher. I might send four or five questions to you. In a case like that, I would send 10 or 15, and usually it takes another set of emails to have them go.

Speaker 3: 38:44

Oh yeah, no, I'm not gonna go on with this. Yeah, yeah, and I had one guy got really upset because we figured it out, because dad gummit, he wanted his 15 minutes and he took a picture in his hotel room and got the reflection of the light behind me which looked like a nice ufo. I mean it was circular, it had, you know, spaces around it. But you go to the hotel's website and there's the light there's the light.

Speaker 1: 39:33

Do you um ever have to go? Have you ever had occasion to go and interview these people um face to face? When it really gets serious, I guess, and you're really on to something, you go down and see them or you go up and see them depending on where they are.

Speaker 3: 39:50

Quite often, when it gets to that point, you call another investigator and the two of you go out. That way you're not anticipating an answer, you're hearing it fresh. And then you get together at a Denny's or wherever and go over what went on and you gotta go. Okay, that I, I missed that or I didn't see it that way. So you kind of feed them back and forth and we all will pitch in to help whoever. Right now we're short 12 investigators for the state of Florida. So I have a case I had a case last week in Naples and one in Pensacola and that's because we don't have an agent, we don't have an investigator, and for anybody in the listening audience that would like to, it's $100 and you take a test, then we walk you through it and we have. Let's see, we've got 13 now and we need 12 more.

Speaker 1: 41:20

Just because the reports are increasing.

Speaker 3: 41:23

Well, the reports are increasing and the stupid states. So that got long. It's not like I can hop in the car and drive to Pensacola. Right, yeah, that's a big space there are many things I like to do and pensacola is a nice place, but on social security, no, I'm not driving to pensacola do you think people are just getting more comfortable with reporting what they're saying?

Speaker 1: 41:54

they're a little less afraid they're going to be called cuckoo yeah, I think so.

Speaker 3: 41:58

I think it's been out in the public enough that they go. Oh well, maybe I can report this. And we've got people who have been holding this inside for decades and they're like I got to tell somebody and we get some that you know they state flat out I don't need to have this investigated, I just needed to tell somebody and we put that down as a historical event and it gets filed in the database.

Speaker 3: 42:39

um, we were working on because overseas they have a lot of countries that don't have investigators and for some reason I got the Greeks. Well, one of their units in Iraq saw a saucer land. They got out, they dug some sand up, they took samples they were taking all sorts of, and then they got back in and flew off. Well, there's no way to get a radar check for the government on that. They won't give it to you. I tried, and in fact I went so far as to go for a Fonzie on it to get make the feds give me the information, take it to court, prove that it's it's it's top secret or whatever, but otherwise give me the blip on the radar. Let's see, that was five years ago and I'm really excited when I get that report back and and does it trickle in?

Speaker 1: 44:00

can it? Can it be that long and you'll eventually get something five years later? That'll close the case and I.

Speaker 3: 44:08

you get something that trickles in that you go back to the case, reopen it and say, no, this is not this, it's that it was an airplane. I would love to get the flight tracks of the early jets that the Air Force was testing, because I am sure that some of those were classified as a UFO.

Speaker 1: 44:41

Probably.

Speaker 3: 44:42

Who do you think?

Speaker 1: 44:43

Space Force fits in.

Speaker 3: 44:46

Space Force. I actually said that correctly this time because I usually say Space Force. Actually said that correctly this time because I usually say space farce. I really don't have a whole lot of experience with them because they're kind of like a big wall. You shoot stuff at them and it hits the wall and it bounces off and you never hear anything from them. I mean, literally no investigator that I know of has gotten anything out of Space Force, even when it's on Space Force property, and it's frustrating. You know, you get the case. It's like, well, uh, this is gonna wind up being unknown because we won't be able to get any information yeah, the guy, the guy who spoke in front of congress this summer, david grosch is that am I saying his name correctly?

Speaker 1: 45:50

he was out of now. He was way high top rafts.

Speaker 3: 45:54

He uh, I don't remember exactly nsa I believe he was nsa and then whatever that high level thing is in the pentagon were you surprised to see somebody that high up in the military?

Speaker 1: 46:09

come forward, forward.

Speaker 3: 46:13

No, because they have been slowly trickling information out, the David Grush incident, and that's what I'm calling it, because it was that little blip and then nothing else has been done about it. Yeah I think was unexpected to the powers that be and I think they're having trouble with um getting a handle on.

Speaker 3: 47:00

Getting a handle on all the tendrils that they put out there over the decades, and will it lead to disclosure? I don't think so. They've got too much money invested in it. I mean the pentagon. We had that famous incident of the ten thousand dollar hammer and ten thousand dollar toilet seats and stuff like that.

Speaker 3: 47:23

There's a whole lot of money that's been spent on this oh yeah and I had a brother-in-law who was in the Air Force and he was always complaining about me investigating UFOs there's nothing to it, da-da, da-da, da-da, until he retired. Then his whole thing changed because he wasn't bound by that toad that's around there, by that toad that's around there. And my opinion is that if the Air Force has a saucer that they're investigating, they are looking for a weapon. Anything else that comes out of it, push it off to the side and they're probably doing their usual thing, which is compartmentalizing the heck out of it. So that my group doesn't talk to your group, even though we eat lunch together. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 48:29

And so we defeat ourselves in trying to keep it quiet.

Speaker 1: 48:37

Yeah, so you've got this C1 to C5 level, C5 being the most, I guess, the strongest, if you will interaction yeah, strongest contact yeah strongest contact what's been, what's one of your more memorable ones that stand out at that level?

Speaker 3: 49:02

I had a young lady in Tavares who spent evenings on the roof of the porch of her house. She would pop out the window and sit out and watch the stars and she had a light show up suddenly. It didn't come in as a light, it suddenly there was a light there. She you know being kind of startled, she went hello and she got a neutral picture of hello back and she did a little interaction. Interaction for a few more minutes and then it just disappeared. It didn't go off or whatever. It just quit. So the next night she got out there and she said please come back. And the light showed up. Okay, I could handle the first one Showing up the second time. That says that somebody's paying attention there. Now part of me says, oh good, the aliens are finally being nice. The other part of me is dang gum, it it's's the government and they're messing with us again.

Speaker 3: 50:40

I guess I'm getting cynical because I don't believe what the government tells me almost of anything, but I don't know if I'm ready for just anybody to be able to communicate like that. Stephen Greer has a group that he's working on contact he's pretty on contact.

Speaker 1: 51:15

He's pretty well known. A lot of people probably heard of him.

Speaker 3: 51:19

And I had a poor feeling on him from back in the early teens when we investigated one of his C5 events down south of here when we figured out that it was a Cessna dropping flares behind the clouds. But he's gone away from that sort of falderal to trying to get the government to come forward. He's getting people to speak. He's getting people to say well, I did this and the government's kept me quiet for this many years. You know because why? It's like the Rendlesham Forest incident over in England. Pendleton has been harassed by the government for exposing what he got when he touched the craft. Well, government, either come forward and say it was us doing that or whatever but don't have the guys' retirement checks slowed down and this sort of thing.

Speaker 3: 52:48

That shows pettiness.

Speaker 1: 52:50

Right and lack of freedom of speech.

Speaker 3: 52:53

Yeah, well, among the many things, Among the many things.

Speaker 3: 52:57

yes, Stephen Greer has taken the non-disclosures that people have signed over the years and sent them to lawyers and lawyers go. You know, I could break that in two minutes and that's the sort of thing the government is holding over people. They wait until they're dying of cancer or whatever and they then come forward Jesse Marcel, from the deal out in New Mexico, finally on his deathbed deal out in New Mexico, Finally on his deathbed. He came forward and said, yeah, they cobbled together some junk to show the press and yeah, they'd been two days of falder all on it. But yeah, it was just a weather balloon or they go.

Speaker 3: 53:53

it's a Project Mogul balloon. Well, that's nice, except that was in the 50s, this is in 47. Well, how do they go together? And it's just aggravating the level of stupid that they go to. I mean, they've got a whole lot of money and pay people big bucks, come on and give us a decent story anyway.

Speaker 1: 54:22

Yeah, it just really is very convoluted and uh, that's why I think most, most folks watching this at all are being aware of this are are very I I can see where you would be cynical. I'm feeling a little cynical about the whole thing too, which is not something that if you'd asked me 20 years ago that there would be disclosure and we'd be talking about multidimensional beings and I would have been all excited, but now I'm skeptical, which is really a shame if it's really happening, and maybe that's part of it.

Speaker 3: 55:00

One of the things that gives me a little bit of hope is Mrs Isaac. She's Canadian, she's Chinese-Canadian, and she started seeing lights she lives out in the country started seeing lights and she started thinking about talking to them and suddenly they would form a pattern like she was thinking of, or they would all move left or all move right, that sort of thing, and when the government came to ask her questions she shut the door on them. So, yeah, it's like okay, yes, this, this is good, we're not going to get the party line here. She's this is good, we're not going to get the party line here. And she's consistently staying with her story and the pictures she has taken and other people have taken around her show the same thing. And it's like a lot of people they tell a story and if you ask them five years later, that story has modified. Well, a lot of these people it doesn't modify. They tell you the story now. They'll tell you the story in five years or 10 years. It's the same yeah and they don't.

Speaker 3: 56:38

The government doesn't seem to understand that something is happening and so where do we go from here?

Speaker 1: 56:47

you've been in this now for several decades and is this, is this pretty much your does this occupy a lot of your time? I mean, I know you're involved in so many things, but this sounds like it is this like front and center for you?

Speaker 3: 57:03

Yeah, I spend probably five, six, seven hours a week focused on this. My reading focuses on it a lot. If you see me out eating at culver's or wherever, the book I have with me will be a ufo book. Um, I have probably 20 youtube sites that I go to a week that I'm watching.

Speaker 1: 57:32

Um like for what?

Speaker 3: 57:34

like just informational type thing you know information and what's going on. Um, there's one uh latest ufo sightings and he, just he doesn't. No commentary, no, nothing, it's just a series of what people have sent him so you're in the thick of it.

Speaker 1: 57:53

You're really in the thick of it.

Speaker 3: 57:55

Yeah, I am committed. I should be committed? I don't know.

Speaker 1: 58:03

I'm just sitting here thinking about this journey you've been on for these decades and how this is still such a major part of your life and I think there's a lot of courage there for you in this because, I mean, I know there's curiosity, I know it's got to be a, otherwise you wouldn't have stayed with it. You're having, you're having fun with it, you have investigative skills Maybe that's a part of who you are and all but I think there's there's courage. It took, it takes courage to be involved in this, especially back decades ago, and to be stepping out talking about it.

Speaker 3: 58:37

Well, I got over being bashful about it a long time ago and I quite often will wear T-shirts. Let me show you. Oh, we are here, he's got a t-shirt on that says we are here, and then another one that says planetary society.

Speaker 3: 59:04

It's cold in my house yes, it's cold right now we have a meeting twice a month where we get together, like I said, and watch the DVDs or whatever, and I wear different T-shirts. And one of the waitresses asked me aren't you a little afraid walking through this bunch of rednecks? No, no, he says. Aren't you a little afraid walking through this bunch of rednecks? No, no, um, I've worked over the years. I've had the pleasure of working with multiple major ufo investigators linda moulton, how, being one. We worked on a um cattle mutilation case over in Osceola County. I've met and talked with Stephen Greer. I had the pleasure of meeting J Allen Hynek before he died, wanted to meet Stanton Freeman, but he's down on that one, Although now I've got a reason to go to Newfoundland because there's a museum to his UFO work.

Speaker 3: 1:00:17

So a lot of this is just okay. You don't believe in it, that's fine. Why are you so angry about it? Is it because you are afraid of what might be? And I have a lot of the ultra religious who are afraid of aliens because that would mean maybe they're not the center right, that would mean change.

Speaker 1: 1:00:50

Yeah, we just having to relook at what your beliefs are, and that's always challenging for people. Sure, it doesn't have to be necessarily, but it could be for some. Those beliefs can coexist together.

Speaker 3: 1:01:05

The Pope has come out and said yeah, they're fine, We'll baptize them. Yeah, them, yeah, um so, and a lot of people. And it's kind of fun because we have a sign that says come on in and join us on the door, and we have people that open the door and they look in, then they close the door.

Speaker 3: 1:01:30

I asked one of the waitresses says what do they say when they come back? She says they look normal. Well, that's the first time that's ever been used with me. We'll have to Go ahead, and I think that's part of the thing. People think that if you're interested in that, you're out there and that's part of the thing. People think that you, if you're interested in that, you're out there and that's not the case we're just normal people who right have right, a little more open mind and in fact I will invite you.

Speaker 3: 1:02:09

We have a meeting the first wednesday of the month at noon and the third saturday at noon at Nemoz.

Speaker 1: 1:02:17

I'll have to drop in sometime and I will put all that. I'll get that information from you and I'll have that in the show notes so people can. And then maybe whatever else you want to include the MUFON website and whatever else you think is useful for people who are interested in this, because there are a lot, there are a lot of people that want to talk about it and, um, more than we realize, more than we realize, and they're curious they are curious and a lot of them have had an experience that they suppressed or there was, as kids, um, and adults with kids tend to oh, you thought that dreamed that up.

Speaker 3: 1:03:04

Even when it's a school, that's, the kids on the playground saw it. The teachers have been, you know, suppressing it. So I I'm not real sure why we suppress it like we do. Um, the government's definitely involved and I wish the heck they would decide which side they're on yeah, well, we could just keep going here.

Speaker 1: 1:03:31

This is so interesting and I know you're a busy guy. I want to ask you one final question what would you say to your 20 year old self?

Speaker 3: 1:03:45

It's going to be a heck of a journey. Buckle up, buckle up and get ready, because you ain't seen nothing yet yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1: 1:03:59

I do have one more that I wanted to add. It just popped in my head that I had thought of earlier. Would are you, are you gonna ever write a book, you think? You're gonna write a book or no?

Speaker 3: 1:04:08

no, I don't have the patience to write a book okay, yeah, I have too many things that I want to do that I don't have the patience to write a book. Okay, yeah, I have too many things that I want to do that I don't have time to tippy tap on the typewriter.

Speaker 1: 1:04:22

Right, yeah, I just I well, you're doing what you're doing and you're, and you're out there and you're. This is really important work, and so I want to commend you for that and just being out there, being yourself and raising this discussion and helping other people be comfortable and help other people understand a little bit more about what's happening in this area yep yeah, well, so good to see you and chat with you again, and you'll be seeing me pop in on your meeting. Excellent.

Speaker 1: 1:04:56

I'm going to close out this episode and just once again thrilled to have you and maybe we can chat again down.

Speaker 3: 1:05:06

You can be with you.

Speaker 1: 1:05:08

All right. Well, thanks for listening everybody and we'll talk soon. Bye now. Well, thanks for listening everybody and we'll talk soon. Bye now. If this podcast was valuable to you, it would mean so much if you could take 30 seconds to do one or all of these three things Follow or subscribe to the podcast and, while there, leave a review, and then maybe share this with a friend if you think they'd like it. And then maybe share this with a friend if you think they'd like it. In a world full of lots of distractions, I so appreciate you taking the time to listen in. Until next time, be well and take care.