Meaning and Moxie After 50
Navigating Caregiving with Heart and Strategy
Navigating the multifaceted world of caregiving requires both legal and emotional finesse. As we journey through the complex dynamics of caregiving, Allison and I highlight the delicate balance between respect and intervention. Sharing her history as a two-time cancer caregiver for her parents, we discuss the importance of maintaining open communication and strategies for addressing difficult conversations. The conversation touches on the profound appreciation and unique challenges that come with balancing parenting with caregiving for aging parents, underscoring the importance of preserving one's agency in the caregiving role.
Caregiving does not end with the loss of a loved one; the emotional and practical challenges continue to linger. We talk about the lasting emotional toll, the necessity of trust and faith, and the persistent self-doubt that caregivers can experience after their duties have ended. Allison introduces her insightful course, "How Your Family Wins in Caregiving," designed to equip families with essential tools and knowledge. We discuss the importance of legacy questions and celebrating meaningful relationships, advocating for a dignified end-of-life experience. This episode offers heartfelt guidance and inspiration for anyone on the caregiving journey, highlighting the enduring impact of shared experiences and the importance of planning for life after caregiving.
Allison's information:
https://cozycaregivercafe.com/
A new membership community created for the Cozy Caregiver Cafe! It provides daily videos every morning (meditation and energy), and sleep videos for the evening.
Here’s a free Sampler (7 days) for listeners.
https://cozycaregivercafe.com/sampler
Instagram (@cozycaregivercafe)!
**The information provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute legal advice; instead, all information, content and materials available on this site are for general informational purposes only. Information on this podcast may not constitute the most up-to-date legal or other information. This podcast contains links to other third party websites. Such links are only for the convenience of the reader, user or browser.
Navigating the multifaceted world of caregiving requires both legal and emotional finesse. As we journey through the complex dynamics of caregiving, Allison and I highlight the delicate balance between respect and intervention. Sharing her history as a two-time cancer caregiver for her parents, we discuss the importance of maintaining open communication and strategies for addressing difficult conversations. The conversation touches on the profound appreciation and unique challenges that come with balancing parenting with caregiving for aging parents, underscoring the importance of preserving one's agency in the caregiving role.
Caregiving does not end with the loss of a loved one; the emotional and practical challenges continue to linger. We talk about the lasting emotional toll, the necessity of trust and faith, and the persistent self-doubt that caregivers can experience after their duties have ended. Allison introduces her insightful course, "How Your Family Wins in Caregiving," designed to equip families with essential tools and knowledge. We discuss the importance of legacy questions and celebrating meaningful relationships, advocating for a dignified end-of-life experience. This episode offers heartfelt guidance and inspiration for anyone on the caregiving journey, highlighting the enduring impact of shared experiences and the importance of planning for life after caregiving.
Allison's information:
https://cozycaregivercafe.com/
A new membership community created for the Cozy Caregiver Cafe! It provides daily videos every morning (meditation and energy), and sleep videos for the evening.
Here’s a free Sampler (7 days) for listeners.
https://cozycaregivercafe.com/sampler
Instagram (@cozycaregivercafe)!
**The information provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute legal advice; instead, all information, content and materials available on this site are for general informational purposes only. Information on this podcast may not constitute the most up-to-date legal or other information. This podcast contains links to other third party websites. Such links are only for the convenience of the reader, user or browser.
So are you looking for more inspiration and possibility in midlife and beyond? Join me, leslie Maloney, proud wife, mom, author, teacher and podcast host, as I talk with people finding meaning in Moxie in their life after 50. Interviews that will energize you and give you some ideas to implement in your own life. I so appreciate you being here Now. Let's get started. All right, allison, thank you so much for taking the time to be here this morning. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Oh, Leslie, thank you so much for having me. I've just been really, really looking forward to this conversation.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. So you have such an interesting story. Let's kind of go back to you. Know, your background is in your lawyer and you're a mom of a little one as well, yes, Hudson, he's two and a half years old.
Speaker 2:definitely our greatest gift in this entire world.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, yeah, I've seen the pictures and he is adorable, he's adorable, and so, and you're married to a former, to a veteran, right, you were a military wife. Yes, you all have moved around quite a bit with that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I am so proud of my husband's service. He graduated from West Point and we actually dated when he was at West Point and he deployed to Afghanistan in 2010. And because of the fact that he was in the military and I was working towards my career, we did long distance for 10 years. So we did long distance for 10 years. So we did long distance for 10 years and we actually counted it up and I think that it was something really really unusual like in 11 years, collectively between both of us having different locations, we moved something like 13 times.
Speaker 1:Yes, we have moved a lot. Okay, a lot of growth in that time then I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so now you all are in the New York City area. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, I feel grateful to be living in New York City. It is such a magical city, especially at this time of year this is the holiday season. So, yes, we just. New York City is our soul city and we feel so grateful to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is so magical, especially, yeah, at the holiday and everything lit up and, yeah, everybody hustling and bustling, absolutely. So your focus has really been in the caregiving world and even in your law right, in your law practice, you focus on elder law and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I call myself a family caregiving attorney, and if you aren't familiar with the term, that's totally okay, because it's just one that I made up. Basically, when you think about law and you think about something like elder law, I'm so glad you brought that up. Elder law is such an incredible and important field, but if you really break it down into its legal components, what it is is a whole bunch of disparate legal areas like housing and healthcare and estate planning. That's all tied together because it relates to the elder, so the individual who is elderly, who oftentimes is a client in a law office. What I'm really interested in doing is bringing that same type of concierge legal services to somebody who is a family caregiver either a future family caregiver or a current family caregiver and so I am potentially moving upstream a little bit from typical elder law, although I do focus on that a lot, because I really want to work with people who are in their 30s and 40s, even their 20s, as they're thinking about what their caregiving responsibilities might look like.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that's so, so important. I certainly my mom has since passed, but I found myself in that role and you know saw it coming. You know, it's kind of one of those things, you know the and the preparation, and did some preparation in my head. But then there's of course, things I didn't anticipate that happened and boy could I have used that support. So tell us so yeah, so so much I mean. So I think it's what you've got your finger on the pulse here in a big way, Thank you.
Speaker 2:Can I ask you, Leslie, when? When did your mom pass?
Speaker 1:She passed in 2017. Okay yeah, she was 93 and she lived a beautiful, long, healthy life she up until, like, she started to develop a little bit of dementia and when she was around 90 and was still able to live somewhat independently until that last year. That's when things got really, really hard. But you know that. That walking that line and and being of support when someone is, you know you, because everybody wants to keep their independence as long as they possibly can, and then you can kind of see things eroding and re.
Speaker 2:You know, validating and respecting that person and knowing when to step in and knowing when to step back is such a key thing, absolutely, and the the thing that I found, leslie and I just want to share this is that there's the elements of law which I do in my law office which are so important, and this is really the nitty gritty, the practical. But what I was also finding with my clients is, to your very point, what you just shared. So many questions were arising around things that weren't legal. Right, I mean, we know the legal is a certain foundation, but then the everyday human interactions, the emotions, the concept of legacy none of that is legal. So actually, about two months ago, I opened up a non-legal entity which is where I can focus and serve people who have questions that aren't legal but still are about caregiving.
Speaker 1:So, oh, it's fantastic. So so you've walked this, walk yourself. Give us a little bit of background in in that.
Speaker 2:I have walked this and I do have to say, just before I move on to my story, I just I'm so touched by your story, leslie, because you're, when you talk about your mom and independently until they're 92, and then has a really hard year and passes when they're 93. That is almost like the dream story, right? That's one of, that's one of almost the best outcomes we could ask for, and I'm not asking you to dive into this, but I'm sure that last year was really tough, and so when we're being honest about what caregiving looks like, we can say the dream story is something like in the little you shared, that like Leslie and her mom experienced, and that last year was probably still hell in many ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's just, it's it, it, um. Once again, just honoring them and keeping them at the forefront and yet honoring yourself in the walk as well, because the boundaries can get very enmeshed. And so it really boy it was. I learned a lot about myself, for sure.
Speaker 2:And I love that you say honor and boundaries, because that's actually the reason, based upon my two caregiving experiences, that I do the work that I do now. I am a two time cancer caregiver to my parents. My dad was diagnosed when I was in college and he died six months before my wedding and I, you know, hadn't graduated from college yet. So I was really young, in my early 20s, when he when he was sick and when he died my mom was diagnosed about six years later. So I was in my late 20s and I received the call about her diagnosis when I was three weeks into my very first dream job out of law school. So I was a three weeks newly minted lawyer. I was working at my dream job, at my dream firm, and I received a call from her doctor telling me that I needed to come because she was sick and so thankfully, my mom is alive and she's doing well. Her oncologist a couple of years ago fired her because she was 10 years, with clean scans.
Speaker 2:So we are so so, so grateful for that. One of the things to be honest, though, with my mom is that she's 76. We are now in the process of thinking about the aging and caregiving lifestyle factors that come just as a part of life, and so I'm very much living that too. She's having some mobility issues, somewhat related to some side effects of the cancer treatment that she received, and some other just related to her own health, and we've really been thinking through what that means, what it looks like in the short term, what it looks like in the long term.
Speaker 2:So I have lived these two acute cancer diagnoses and I have lived the spectrum in terms of survival and death, but I'm also, right now, living it. I'm living this with my mom. We're different, but she is one of my very best friends, and there's an irony, leslie, to me becoming a mama two and a half years ago which, again, is the greatest gift that God could have given me Me becoming a mama has made me appreciate my mom so much more and want to learn from her and talk to her and be with her so much more. And then, of course, there's an irony that when you get to be a parent, you have typically less time right to do this sort of exploration and have these sit down long conversations. So that's another thing that I'm balancing but very deliberately focused on.
Speaker 1:Yes, so you were quite young to be to be put in those shoes and so, because that that was a lot, you had a lot going on. I wonder, in those conversations you're talking about, that you're having with your mom, is she open to those conversations? Because I know with my mom she wasn't as open to that and that's made it difficult. So how does that go?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 2:For you I would say that level of openness. It can be a game changer for caregivers. But I also I just want to say, leslie, that I do work with people who there's a closed offness about those types of conversations and to me there's like a love. I sit with people and I understand this level of frustration, like, oh, if only we could talk, things would be easier. But the way I look at it is it just means, instead of going down this path, we're going to go down this one, and there are a whole bunch of different things and systems that can be put in place that still allow for a caregiving experience, which is one of agency of the caregiver, which I'm really big on, and not just simply like reacting or being a secondary player in someone else's play. Right. So I do want to say that, although it's really hard and just acknowledge it's hard when someone shuts down these conversations, there are still things that can be done. So I don't want people to feel too discouraged and to share.
Speaker 2:Thankfully, my mom is very open to these conversations. We actually just last night she was having these mobility issues and she was fully open to recording a podcast episode for me where we talked openly about this and we sort of I coached her through, I asked her the questions that I feel like I would want somebody to coach me, you know, through if I were the caregiver and I was thinking through the types of things that I would need to be considering. So she's very open to it. With my dad's death she actually became a huge hospice volunteer and for over 10 years she's led groups for bereaved spouses and so she's very connected with this and also very supportive of me. So I feel grateful for that.
Speaker 1:Oh good, so good. So tell us about the Cozy Caregiver Cafe podcast, which I love the name, and you just mentioned the episode y'all recorded.
Speaker 2:Give us a little bit more background on that. Basically, I want to create a place, leslie, where current caregivers, future caregivers and even former caregivers can go and feel connected to a community, so that they don't feel alone and learn something Like. Those are really my two goals connection and education and so there are a myriad of ways that the Cozy Caregiver Cafe podcast seeks to do that. Sometimes I do solo episodes and that's more of a storytelling episode, where either I share something from my own experience or I talk about something that's happening in my life, and the concept is to provide a little, I want to say, like lessons that are wrapped in escapism, like I want the stories to be something that takes you somewhere else, because I have experienced this being a caregiver. Sometimes, in your current, present moment, it's just unbearable, and I want people to have a place where they can go.
Speaker 2:When it comes to that sort of escapism, community element, the plea of the cozy caregiver, which I seek to answer through every single episode, regardless of the format, is tell me it's going to be okay, in a way that I believe you.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm not always going to be that voice, I am not everyone's cup of tea, and so I also bring on guests, I bring on current or former caregivers and I bring on coaches or experts in the field, and so I'm trying to bring as many different voices to this table where so that people will understand that it's going to be okay and that the cozy caregiver will be able to offer that in a way that they believe it's going to be okay. I can tell you, leslie, when I was a caregiver, that was just the tell me it's going to be okay, in a way that I believe you. That was literally my mantra to God that I was asking just over and over again, every single day. I wanted to know it was going to be okay and this is my attempt to try to give people that faith that it will be.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and that I totally identify with that. I think that is a at the central part of somebody walking through. This is, you know, just the support, and that is it's going to be okay. We're going to figure it out and do the best we can with the resources we have in front of us, and you do have to be very much releasing it to spirit too, and that, okay, I can only do so much here and then life is life, and so you just got to kind of go with it and put it in God's hands, so to speak.
Speaker 2:I love that you said that, leslie, because the first episode, which is titled the Most Important Thing that Every Caregiver Should have, like this, is my message. If nobody else remembers me for anything in this life, I hope that people remember me for this. I want every caregiver to have faith, faith in something bigger than themselves, and it doesn't have to be the God that I believe in. But to your point and I just so resonate with what you just said there's so much to life that's happening behind the scenes, especially when you're a caregiver, that you are not in control over, but you still feel like you are. And if you, if a caregiver, walks into that situation and doesn't have faith in something greater than they're going to feel like every time something bad happens, it's their fault, that it was preventable or it somehow should have been mitigated.
Speaker 2:And and I I honestly, after my dad died, the reason why faith is so important to me is I lost faith, and so I was very much caregiving for my mom without faith, which was absolutely terrible, like a whole level of suffering that I would never wish upon anybody. And so that's why, like, there's this element of I God, I don't understand you, but I trust you. I don't know why this is happening, but I know that there's a plan and I also I'm doing my best. This is happening, but I know that there's a plan and I also I'm doing my best. And I know that if I'm doing my best and something bad is still happening, I have to emotionally cope with that, I have to practically deal with that, but I don't have to take on the responsibility and the guilt and the shame that that's my fault.
Speaker 1:That's not my fault.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that that's a process too that takes a while, because I know for myself here it's, you know it's going on six years since my mom passed and, um, I still play back things that happened, you know, and, like I said, it wasn't just the last year. Last year is when things really kind of amped up, but you know it was a 10-year period, um, as well. But I still replay things in my head about, you know, certain situations during that time with the caregiving, and just you know how I could have showed up. You know that guilt, that shame will rear its head. You know, could I have showed up better?
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, yeah, that day I showed up frustrated and I could have had more patience. You know, oh yeah, that day I showed up frustrated and I could have had more patience, you know. And then just giving myself, then being able to step back and go, it was what it was. You know you did the best you could. You know that kind of thing. So I'm still, you know, six, six years later after her passing, still working through some of that. So I really like that you're inviting people, maybe who are out of that role now in into the community, because once a caregiver, I think always a caregiver in that situation, and I see that with friends of mine too who have had parents transition, who are still processing as well.
Speaker 2:Well, oh gosh, thank you for sharing that. That really touches my heart and brings me to tears, because, just knowing you and feeling your energy, I have zero doubt that you did an extraordinary amount of good caregiving and that you gave all of yourself, that you had to give Right Like, I have zero doubt about that, and we still, of course, have. It's natural, natural to have these lingering feelings and questions. I, I care so deeply about this population, these care, this caregiving population, particularly people, like you said, who aren't caregivers yet because they don't know what's coming. Because I care about the former caregiver, I care about the person who's left after the caregiving period ends.
Speaker 2:Because what I found, leslie, what I found is that when a caregiving situation strikes and we're thrust into that role because that's what happens, right, like we get dropped into the water. I mean, sometimes you have some sort of notice and a lot of times you don't. I found that what happens is the question and the focus becomes on that moment, like, will I be able to do what I need to do as a caregiver? That's what the caregiver is asking, that's what all of the services are directed to. And I get that right, because we want the person that we love to be cared for. So that becomes the question. But I feel like you know, after nearly 20 years of working in this field, personally and professionally, I, in that situation, zoom out not even to the 30,000 foot level. I want to say to like the 50,000 foot level, and I say I would say to you I'd say, leslie, there is no doubt in my mind that you are going to be a great caregiver and that you're going to find a way you're resourceful and you're going to find a way to provide care to your mom. I have zero doubt in my mind that will happen, because I've never met a caregiver who didn't move heaven and earth to do everything they possibly could.
Speaker 2:Here's what I care about, Cause you're going to be finding every single way and staying up nights thinking through the things you can do to care for your loved one. So I want to be sitting here and thinking and caring for you, but not just now, but in the future, because after you're no longer a caregiver, who I care about Leslie is. I care about the Leslie that's left, and what I find is that the Leslie that's left if there's no type of planning or conversations or legacy the Leslie that's left is such a exhausted and tired I mean these are all natural emotions diminished and weakened state of herself. There's always going to be a level of grief, right when someone passes or when someone ages, or when a health outcome like a health situation arises, there's always going to be a level of grief. But I want Leslie to be in the best position possible to move through that grief in every single way she possibly needs to.
Speaker 2:That's not for me to say, that's for her, and so what I want Leslie to be able to have is the wherewithal, the emotional space, the emotional freedom and the lack of the guilt and shame, when unnecessary, to be able to move through that grief on her own. What I find is that when there isn't a plan, when there isn't a level of planning, leslie that that person, that former caregiver it just is not in a space to be able to do that, to be able to honor themselves after they honored the person they cared for. But there are things like estate planning, of course, having legacy conversations and recognizing your own boundaries upfront and then sticking to them. Like there are ways I believe even if you're in the middle of caregiving, you can start this that allow you, after caregiving, to be in the healthiest space possible to process what you need to give yourself and honor yourself, so that then you can start again in life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you're. You're absolutely right. I don't think we're we're doing enough planning in this arena, um, in families, and so you're. It sounds like so if you were talking to somebody, like you said, who's in their forties. It sounds like so if you were talking to somebody, like you said, who's in their 40s, 30s, 40s and you know, sees this coming with potential family members, what would be estate planning would be kind of number one.
Speaker 2:Is that right? Well, I mean, it's a great question, and so there are a myriad of things, a myriad of things. I so I do think that, in general, right, estate planning as we know it's drafting of a will or creating a trust and thinking through healthcare proxies and power of attorneys. Yes, that is important. But this is one of the disconnects that I found.
Speaker 2:I found that, say, I'm going to just call this person the grandparent, right, say there's a grandparent which is the parent to an adult child, and then say the adult child has a child.
Speaker 2:That's typically the way that the structure or the alignment of people that I work with.
Speaker 2:So, say, at the grandparent level, right, the grandparent has had these discussions with their attorney, so they have documents in place, or they don't. They've had these discussions, these documents are somewhere, but what ends up happening is that it's not the actual individual, the grandparent, who's drafted these, who's going to be using them, who's going to be using them is the adult child. And so the adult child typically hasn't been a part of these discussions with the attorney who is drafting these documents. And I'm going to just be very honest and there should be no shame here that the grandparent, who really was the principal, the client, in having these documents drafted I found typically doesn't understand the documents well enough to be able to share that information in a meaningful way down to their adult child. So we have this place where, just strictly speaking, focused on the legal documents, documents are in place but the person who's actually going to be using them the adult child doesn't really know anything about them, or doesn't understand them, about them, or doesn't understand them.
Speaker 2:100, 100. So I am, so I I would, I would say so. When you say estate planning, like you say, you know someone in their 40s sees this coming, what would you advise? It's not just, I mean, of course, there is the estate planning, but it's also the, the second part of rec, like the adult child understanding what's in those documents, and so that's something that I do through my law office. And then the other thing that I would recommend is to have conversations about legacy and have before caregiving hits, or even if you're in the middle of caregiving.
Speaker 2:You can do this now to to have true, a true understanding of yourself, your needs, what your boundaries are, what your natural inclinations are. And I mean it's ideal, right, if you know that about the person that you're caring for, so much interpersonal conflict happens because two people are just of different natural states and you know, I mean at the very basic level, you can think of love languages, which is something that people know like if you have a different love language than the person that you're caring for, but you're so deeply hoping that the person you're caring for will show you their appreciation through your love language, like that's going to be a real eye opener and going to create more conflict than is needed. So this is all to say that I ended up because I've seen this play out so many times I ended up creating a digital course which is launching in January. That is really sort of around this area as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, tell us more, tell us more.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, Leslie, this is so kind.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just the idea I mean that there are, I would say there are, there are, there are, there are, there are, there are, there are, there are.
Speaker 2:You want to have a map of caregiving right before you go on your journey. So if you're in the middle of your journey, if you're in the middle of caregiving, I don't want you to not feel there's hope, because you can have the map and draw up the map there too. But I ideally right, if we could just paint a perfect picture, it would be someone has a map of their caregiving journey or what it could look like, and then when they decide to go on that trip which is really when caregiving journey, or what it could look like, and then when they decide to go on that trip, which is really when caregiving calls right, they can open their map and they can understand the different landscapes and they can navigate around. I think a map, Leslie, is better than a plan. Just as a side note, a map is better than a plan because a plan is it's going to be A and B and C and D, but we know life changes and things change.
Speaker 2:So, instead of than a plan, because a plan is it's going to be A and B and C and D, but we know life changes and things change.
Speaker 2:So instead of having a plan, which is I'm going to get from point A to point B using this exact prescription, you have a map that says here are the mountains and here are the roads, here are the caves and here's the water.
Speaker 2:Here's what I need to navigate and here's what I need to know, and I actually I understand these elements of caregiving, these aspects of caregiving, I understand where these issues in caregiving will exist and so, as a result, then I'm going to be better able to navigate, based upon what's happening in the current circumstance, because I know the six main pillars of caregiving, I know where the main conflicts happen, I know where the main questions happen and I've already talked to the person I love and I'm caring for about these specific items. So so that the title of the course is called how your family wins in caregiving, which I'm so excited about, because there's so much that we lose in caregiving, and that's obvious. There's so much that we lose in caregiving, and that's obvious. There's so much that we lose. But I want to talk about how families can win, and they can win by having this map, which are the six main pillars of caregiving.
Speaker 2:And then there are also the practical considerations and the scripts for how people can interact with their family members and have these conversations. And then there's the. There's also the I call it the celestial element. That's the legacy element. So you want to have the you know the territorial map of the ground game and that's the main nuts and bolts of caregiving. But I think you also want to have other things guiding you, and sometimes those things are the individual you're caring for in their life stories, the things that they've done in their past which are going to come back in a meaningful way during this caregiving period, or it's just stories of your family or stories of faith. So I call that the celestial legacy element. So there's a legacy component and legacy gathering there. And then there's the self-assessment component, which I call the compass.
Speaker 2:And that's really understanding yourself.
Speaker 1:So I have a couple of questions. It's going to start in January, is what you said, 2024. Yeah, and it runs how many weeks.
Speaker 2:So right now it's going to run 12 weeks, but people will also have, potentially, the option for an accelerated version. I've been receiving some feedback that, instead of a 12 week course that comes out each week, some people might want to be able to binge it when they have a block of time, so I'm thinking about how to make that exist as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, and where can they find out the details or go? Where can they go to sign up?
Speaker 2:And where can they find out the details or go? Where can they go to sign up? That's so sweet, Thank you, yes, so it's Alice. It's wwwalisonkymancom. Forward slash win. So that's A-L-L-I-S-O-N-K-W-Y-M-A-Ncom forward slash win.
Speaker 2:And right now there's an ability to get on the wait list. We're going to have some really, really great bonuses, which will be offered first to the people who are on the wait list. And the other thing, Leslie, that I just want to share is that this course I'm going to be showing up live. So I'm going to be showing up live for the educational components and the components of this course, but I'm also going to be offering office hours, and it's truly my hope that if people are interested in this container of 12 weeks, they should be able to have every other week the meaningful conversations with their family members that they need to which I think is the basis of all caregiving so that, after this 12 week period is over, they not only understand everything that they need to ask their family member about to prepare for caregiving, which gives them the confidence to actually do that. But then I hold people's hands while they do that throughout.
Speaker 1:Yeah, once again, that key support while they do that throughout. Yeah, once again, that key support. So all that information will be in the, in the show notes, as well as how to find Alison on Instagram and Facebook and all that. So thank you. Yeah, absolutely. This is so very near and dear to my heart, very near and dear to my heart, and and I and it affects I think it affects every family on some level and it hasn't been addressed. It hasn't been addressed in a supportive, holistic way. Really, I mean it just we need to shine the light here in this area a whole lot more. I'm intrigued by the legacy piece. So, so the that's the storytelling piece and getting and getting that person, that that elder, to tell their stories and and and that sort of thing to and some would call it family history. Yeah, so that's a, that's a component within that.
Speaker 2:It is, and I, I, I love that you said family history because I that's a component within that it is. And I love that you said family history because I that's one of the important elements I think of caregiving is understanding family history, not just medical history, of course, but like the stories and that make the fabric of who your family is. And what I found, leslie, is that to go back to something we were talking about earlier there's often there can be a reticence by just say that your loved one or the elder, the grandparent, to talk about end of life stuff. I mean, who really wants to lean into that? Some people do and that's awesome, but I understand there's a lot of fear around death and so why would people want to bring that energy into their life before they die? So the legacy piece I found is that it is so much easier, leslie, for people to talk about the end of their life if they're given an opportunity to talk about the best parts and the highlights of their life as well. I mean it has to be a conversation, it can't just be tell me about this. What if you become incapacitated? Like you know?
Speaker 2:There's this element, I think, in law and sometimes in the practicalities of ramming things through, and I get that like I've been there and that's something that I work on where sometimes I just want to ram it through because I want to get from point A to point B in the fastest way possible. But I found that people sometimes don't want to travel the fastest way possible, because if you're talking from point A to point B, that's from life to death. What they want to do is they want to take the long road home. They want to be able to talk about all the things that they've learned, the things that have mattered most to them the best times in their life, what they're looking forward to even in this life.
Speaker 2:And so I feel like in that legacy element, the questions, the legacy questions that I've created that are part of this online course are designed to lock into these caregiving pillars. Right? So you have a caregiving pillar, say, about family. You have a caregiving pillar about the most important people in your life, because you need to know who's the executor and who's going to be your agent you know as your power of attorney and or your healthcare proxy. Like, you have these questions, but instead of just asking them one by one once it requires someone to contemplate bad circumstances you also ask about the most important people in their life. You ask about who their best friend is and the best story they have and the three qualities that make a best friend in their opinion. Like you, allow them to think about the amazing, beautiful people in their life and then potentially they're going to be more open to sharing with you not only who fills these legal roles, but why these people fill those roles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, and weaving that into makes it a much more comfortable conversation. I mean, because one of the things that I struggled with in the case of my mom you know, my dad died when I was very young, so there was no caregiving situations there with him and and, but with my mom is I, you know, I really there's a whole concept of ageism, right, and how society, you know there's a negativity attached to age and all that kind of stuff and and the expectation of, oh, you're growing old, and that which I don't want to buy into. I mean, it is a part of life, but it's also can. If you buy into that, you can age quicker than you need to, let's put it that way. And so, um, because there's so many possibilities and if we keep ourselves healthy and all that kind of stuff, we can be doing things into our 90s and so on.
Speaker 1:So I was always very careful and a little bit within the conversation with her, because I didn't want to give her the message oh, mom, you're, you know you're falling apart, you know things are on a decline, because I saw how, you know, when I would take her to doctor's appointments and things like that.
Speaker 1:Like, um, I was just telling somebody this the other day I, you know, we'd, we'd go into the doctor's office and they'd be talking to me and not her, and she's, you know, and I and I point, I'd go, I just kind of like she's the one that she's the patient, not me, and just all those subtle messages that sometimes people get as they age. And so that was some of my resistance in this conversation with her as well, and walking that line of respecting that, yes, she's aging, but let's not send negative messages either. But let's not send negative messages either. So I just throw that out there because I just think it's something to navigate, another piece to navigate. And so I like the way that you're weaving it in with the legacy questions, because it's a much broader conversation than, instead of, okay, who's the executive going to be, exactly who they're going to be and who's, you know absolutely absolutely make the healthcare decisions so tricky.
Speaker 2:It is tricky and I I think too and I love that you talked about as the caregiver even though you want the information, you're at the doctors you were still an advocate for your mom, like even in that very gentle point, like that redirecting the focus to her.
Speaker 2:That matters in ways that we can't even measure.
Speaker 2:It matters not only to your mom and hopefully to the doctors who will correct that, you know, and not do that to other families, but I hope that it matters to you. So, if you're ever, I hope that's an example you can come to, and I'm sure there are millions of those that maybe just seem commonplace so you wouldn't even think to highlight them, but that's an example where, if you're ever, if you ever feel like you fell short, like I want you to remember that example and say, wow, like even, even even when there was we were at a doctor's appointment and, honestly, even though the information is important and about my mom, I really needed to know it because I'm the one that's going to be filling the prescriptions or, you know, getting the medical devices or doing sort of the nursing tasks at home you still were just showing her respect. You were directing that respect back to her. I hope that's something that can continue to keep the fire glowing in your heart, for how amazing you were when you were a caregiver, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's very healing for me and it's, you know, ultimately I think it's one of those things where so much about life is showing up for the good things and the not so good things, and I had family members that had trouble showing up for, you know, for this particular, for this particular situation with my mom and I think a lot of it it's, it's you're, it's big emotion, it's big emotions going on it so, and some, some people can't show up for that for whatever reason, they have trouble showing up, and I struggled with the resentment on that for a while. But one of the things that comforts me is I showed up, I showed up and I just kept. I just kept saying like I just, I don't want any regrets here, you know, or try to minimize the regret, I guess you know, just show up and be present and do the best you can, and that gets you a hell of a long way If you just put one foot in front of the other.
Speaker 2:That there's so much wisdom in all of that. Show up, be present, do the best you can. What I hear you saying even though it's just probably a natural part of the like lovely person that you are is that I mean to me. If I could zoom out, I would say you were future-proofing for your former caregiving self. You were saying proofing for your former caregiving self.
Speaker 2:You were saying when I'm a former caregiver and I look back on this, I want to make sure that I can live with what I did. And the way that I can live with what I did is if I show up every day and I do my best, am I going to be perfect? No, but if I am present I mean presence is absolutely the gift, right. If I am present is absolutely the gift, right. If I am present, then I will be able to, after my mom passes, know to a certain degree that I was there and I showed up. At the end of my life when I'm just I'm getting emotional talking about this At the end of my life, at the end of my mom's life, I was there, I was there.
Speaker 1:I was there Cause you do. You have those moments where you're like, ah, I want to run away, I don't want to deal with this, and it's like no, you know, it's like you put on your big girl pants, as they say.
Speaker 1:And you, yeah, yeah, and looking back on that, it's just, it provides it. Going through those situations helps you grow and gives you strength that you can't because you don't know, and you're scared and it's apparent and you love them and my gosh, it's in my case, it's my mom and will I survive this? You know there's that underneath too, and so, and then you come through it and you're like I survived it. I survived it, I did pretty good, you know.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot to be gained deep of a level, because I would say that one of the greatest things I learned from caregiving, like the greatest life lesson, is just because you don't want to do something doesn't mean that you don't have to do it. Like there were so many things right that I didn't want to do that. I just said like there, but this, this is, this is what I have to do right now. Like I don't that that doesn't become a factor here, unless, of course, it is hitting my own boundaries, unless it is like putting me at risk for me, right, and so the the other thing that I just I mentioned is that. The other thing I want to mention so my mom loves fireworks.
Speaker 2:We're talking about our moms, right? She loves fireworks. I mean, she will go. I just remember as a kid we would go to the Fourth of July fireworks and she would just be shrieking.
Speaker 2:You know, very embarrassing to someone who's in middle school or high school, but now that I'm older, it's like, yes, like that's exactly how one I want to live my life, like when I am in that joyful of a state.
Speaker 2:I absolutely don't care, right, I just want to be completely in it and experiencing it and just owning it. But I also, when I think about my mom and the end of her life, like I want it to be a grand finale of the Fourth of July fireworks. And you know I'll get emotional talking about this, because you can't not when you talk about the people that you love most. But so that's the reason that I care, and not everybody will, not everyone's mom loves the 4th of July, but they'll have the thing in their life, the thing in their mom's life, that they most love, and I want for every family, the end, the passing, the end of their life to be as to be as great as my mom's 4th of July firework finale. That's what I want and the practical way, leslie, that we get there. We don't get there by hoping. We don't get there by putting our heads in the sand. We do get there by showing up. But we also get there through a level of planning.
Speaker 1:Oh, allison, so so good, so good, and just your level of caring is the first thing I noticed about you and, getting to know you, your level of caring about this and your heart, your big heartedness on this issue and in general, just comes through. It just comes through. So much, thank you, yeah, yeah. So I, I, I look forward to seeing where you know how, just how this moves forward for you and just, I think you, you are going to do, you already are doing some helping a lot of families and doing some amazing work and I think, yes, once again, as I said earlier, I think you got the finger on the pulse here and you're going to, you're, you're, you're a leader. You're a leader in this particular arena, for sure.
Speaker 2:I receive that, leslie. It means so, so much to me that we've had this conversation today and your words will definitely stay with me. I'm very grateful. I'm very grateful for you that not only that we're having this conversation, but that you showed up and shared. Right, it's hard to talk about these things and it's hard to talk about failures, but when you are a leader which you are with this amazing podcast you can say here are the things that haunt me and here's the way that you can avoid them, like that's what you're sharing when you share your stories and that is also legacy and I would say I say caregiving is the greatest form of legacy.
Speaker 1:So thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for being a leader here too.
Speaker 1:I have one more question I always like to end on. So what does a meaningful and moxie filled life look like to you and feel like to?
Speaker 2:you and my life is at its greatest in every single way, especially in the love which is, of course, like underpins all that I do with my family, when I feel free Free in my body, free in my choices, free in every single way. And I feel the most free, I felt the most free as a child when I was on the swings right, when you're just swinging and you're going back and forth and back and forth, pumping higher and higher, and it's just you and the chain slacking and it's just you, and so I would say, as an adult, meaningful and moxie filled life is feeling like as an adult. I am on that swing and I am swinging as high as I possibly can.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, so well said. Oh well, I think we will end on that note and I my heart is very full after this conversation. So thank you, Thank you so so much.
Speaker 2:It's truly been an honor. Thank you so much, Leslie.
Speaker 1:All right, everybody. We'll talk to you soon. Another great episode. Take care. Bye now. If this podcast was valuable to you, it would mean so much if you could take 30 seconds to do one or all of these three things Follow or subscribe to the podcast and, while there, leave a review and then maybe share this with a friend if you think they'd like it. In a world full of lots of distractions. I so appreciate you taking the time to listen in. Until next time, be well and take care.