S1,E36: Prof. Skier/ U.S. Senate Candidate - Caroline Gleich

How did a Minnesota girl, who faced the tragic loss of her half-brother, transform into a fierce advocate for environmental justice and a US Senate hopeful? Join us as we share the incredible story of Caroline Gleich, whose journey from the snowy peaks of Mount Everest to the political battlegrounds of Utah embodies resilience and passion. Caroline takes us through her early years, the pivotal move to Utah at 15, and how her conservative approach to risk in outdoor sports shaped her path towards activism.

We dive deep into Caroline's career, exploring her precarious job experiences and the enlightening moments that spurred her into civic engagement. From her impactful time at the Hinckley Institute to working with environmental organizations, Caroline underscores the importance of grassroots activism and public service. She sets her sights on challenging Senator Mike Lee, driven by a vision for a more inclusive and progressive Utah. Caroline's candid discussion on mental health, reproductive freedom, and clean energy transition provides a compelling look at the issues she aims to tackle.

The conversation takes a broader look at the evolving dynamics of outdoor recreation in Utah and the pervasive corporate influence in American politics. Caroline enlightens us on the importance of collective effort in political campaigns and the urgent need for new leadership to address pressing societal issues. Find out how you can support Caroline's campaign, whether through volunteering, spreading the word, or simply staying informed. Tune in for an episode that promises to inspire and motivate, revealing the heart and determination behind Caroline Gleich's quest for positive change.

Please be sure to like, review, follow, subscribe and share the podcast with your friends and family! See you next time 

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Transcript

Caroline Gleich: 0:10

I moved to Utah when I was 15, and it was right after my half-brother was killed in an avalanche in Big Cottonwood Canyon. Growing up, I just was always someone who wanted to like fix problems and I just saw a lot of the problems of the world that bothered me. But I think sometimes that drive comes from a place of like deep insecurity. But shortly after that I went to Ecuador and climbed and skied the three highest peaks in ecuador, which are the highest is over 6 000 meters, so yeah, 20 000 feet. Everyone was like feeling so sorry for us as americans that we had this leader and just feeling so embarrassed. I told her I want to take out senator mike lee in this in the us senate. First friday of january I get an email at 9 pmby and Jackie and Ben at Elevate asking if I would run for the US Senate seat. I realized I have to do it now because Utah needs me. I mean, our top line message is that if you want to change politics, we have to change politicians.

Erik Nilsson: 1:08

What is up everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Small Lake City podcast. I'm your host, eric Nilsen, and our guest this week is someone who has gotten a lot of national attention recently for her most recent venture, but before what she's up to now, she's had quite the accolades of accomplishments, from climbing Mount Everest with a torn ACL to going down some of the gnarliest chutes in all of the Wasatch Front, being in multiple Warren Miller films, and now she is tackling a US Senate race. And if you don't know by now, the person I'm talking about is named Caroline Gleick and in our conversation today we talk a lot about growing up in the Midwest, moving to Salt Lake, why she moved to Salt Lake, falling in love with the mountains, finding her passion between activism, skiing and then, like I said, her most recent venture of running for US Senate. So great conversation between the two of us. You're going to love it. An amazing person with amazing goals and intentions, and I'm so excited to see what she accomplishes.

Erik Nilsson: 2:08

But, without further ado, just listen to it yourself and enjoy. But I always like going to people's place. I mean, I'd rather have you come from your home than come to wherever I need to be. Thanks for coming up here no, absolutely.

Erik Nilsson: 2:21

I'm excited about this, because one thing I always ask guests at the end of every episode is who would you want to have and hear their story? And I think the for who's the first person I can't remember. The most recent was um er, one of the founders of Baby's Bagels.

Caroline Gleich: 2:37

Oh yeah.

Erik Nilsson: 2:38

He's like I want to hear from Caroline Gleick. I was like aye, aye, cap'n, and it was fun to kind of reach out to your team and get everything going, because I think you're someone who, when I first started the podcast, I was just kind of getting a broad sense of who are these other people that are making difference. People follow, people, are interested in. You came up, but then it was after that that you decided that you were going to run for Senate. I was like okay, like even more so, and, um, my sister's boyfriend, um, david Garbett, um, who found out to Utah. I was like do you think she'd be a good guess? Like yeah, absolutely. I mean, she's doing so much, has done so much, and I think we'll get into it in a little bit.

Erik Nilsson: 3:15

But I think you are such a great face of kind of this new phase of Utah and like kind of this new generation and what we want, what we want to accomplish, how Utah fits our lifestyles and kind of this new footprint that it is. I think you're a great representative for it, especially the more I think about it. So super excited to chat, super excited to get to know you better and go from there Likewise. Thanks for having me. No, totally, but yeah, I mean kind of getting started. I want to set the context of kind of how you got here, because obviously born and raised in the Midwest in Minnesota and then moved here later. But I mean what was? I mean what happened in that early part of your life that you feel like set the stage for this and getting into? I mean mountaineering and getting peaks and climbing. Eventually I mean Mount Everest.

Caroline Gleich: 3:54

Yeah, growing up I always had a lot of family in Utah, so we would come out West at least twice a year and stay with my aunt and uncle or visit my half brother and his wife, and I always wanted to move to Utah. So those I would like count down the days in my school notebook until I would get to go skiing in Utah and like, draw the little logos of all the ski brands. And you know, learning I remember taking a computer science class when I was like in my tweens and learning how to like morph images and put my head on like the picture of a heli skier jumping out of a helicopter. And so I think skiing is just one of those beautiful lifelong sports and it captures your imagination. And then with Minnesota there's a strong winter sports culture and people there really get after it, and my grandfather was a. He was a champion ski jumper at the local hill in Minnesota. So skiing was just something that was. It was a family tradition for us.

Erik Nilsson: 4:54

So it was already in your blood.

Caroline Gleich: 4:59

Yeah, and we'd come to Utah and I wanted to move here and before I moved here I sent away for like information for my parents to send me to Roland Hall to do RoMark, like as a boarding school. I was like send me to boarding school in Utah, or I was trying to get them to let me live with my aunt and uncle who live in Sandy. So it was always my dream, and then um cause.

Erik Nilsson: 5:17

I just imagine you sitting in class and like the other girls are drawing in their notebooks of like I heart so-and-so, and I blah, blah, blah and you're like here's me as on an atomic logo, or here's me dropping out of this, and so I love that there's already this like passion in there and it wasn't something that you just found here.

Caroline Gleich: 5:40

Yeah, it was always. And then just having our extended family here, it felt like our home. So it felt like home long before we moved here. And then when my half, my half brother he would lead with my dad and my uncle, they would plan these backpacking trips to a lot of iconic places in the West. So we would go to the San Juans and to the Wind River Ranch and the Sawtooths. And so from when I was 10 to 15, every summer I'd do a backpacking trip with my dad half brother and with my uncle and brothers, and so those trips also were some of my fondest childhood memories.

Erik Nilsson: 6:07

That's so. I mean, that's like one thing I was always jealous of Cause, like when I grew up in Utah. I feel like I'm very typical in that. Should we go skiing on the weekends and be almost just expected, my grandpa would pull up in a truck at seven, 30. We all hop in. There'd be candy bars and Gatorade for us waiting in the back that we could take on the hill we would come back. But there was never really this like drive for my parents and no fault to them because they had like busy lives, and.

Erik Nilsson: 6:29

But it's so fun to see people appreciate that so much more and have people who are like, hey, we're going to go explore, we're going to go see all of these beautiful places, because it wasn't something until later in life that I really did come to appreciate. And even when I moved back to Salt Lake, I mean it was only then where I'm like, oh yeah, let's go run along shoreline, let's go up like go bike up emigration, let's go run along. I mean, go hike Lake Blanche. But it's that appreciation that comes back, and especially people who move to here usually have that appreciation because it's so new and something that they opted to have and it's such an energy to have, and I love having my friends with that.

Caroline Gleich: 7:04

Yeah, and now that I'm an aunt to my nibblings, I call them my nieces and nephews. I see how much my aunt and uncle and older half-brother and half-sister, how much my aunt and uncle and have older half brother and half sister, how much they did and how much my parents did to get me into the outdoors, and so I try to pass that on also to the next generation as a aunt. And it's a lot of fun to be the instigator of fun in the family and to be the one pushing to go on these fun outdoor adventures and to be taking the kids to the climbing gym or you know, we like to put all the kids and their gear in the sleds and take them up Mill Creek for a mile and then they ski down on the road. So having those fun adventures that we do and continuing the family tradition is really important to me.

Erik Nilsson: 7:47

And it's so fun to be like that route Cause, like for me and my skiing like quote, career unquote. Like grew up doing it, it was a park rat in high school, powder days at alta, like very typical, but now it's like I don't know. It's hard for me to love it, especially now that I have to be a weekend warrior because unfortunately I have a job. But compared to college where, like skis were on the car, I'd leave at 10, 30, go skiing till 2, come back, work, do whatever. But I think the thing that does give me the most enjoyment out of it is watching like my nieces and nephews go skiing and especially seeing them go from like okay, we're on the bunny hill, pizza, french fries, slow down, you're on a leash. To like hold on, slow down, let catch up, don't be too reckless. Is like such a fun growth to see and just see them get so confident on these, like two skis just barreling down a hill.

Caroline Gleich: 8:30

It's really gratifying to see the next generation to have those milestones and that progress. It's really fun.

Erik Nilsson: 8:37

Totally. And so your dream comes true you move to Utah and you finally have this complete access to everything. I mean, did you just jump in both feet first and start running and climbing and jumping on everything that you could, or how was that transition?

Caroline Gleich: 8:50

No, it wasn't like that at all, because I moved to Utah when I was 15 and it was right after my half-brother was killed in an avalanche in Big Cottonwood Canyon. So we were still living in Minnesota when we got the call that he was overdue. You know, his car was still there and it wasn't until the next morning that they had excavated his body and his partners. And then we came out to Utah and we walked up to the site and a couple months after that we moved out here and so it wasn't I was 15.

Caroline Gleich: 9:24

I was the oldest child living at home and it was really difficult to see the grief and to be, you know, the oldest child at home. I felt that I had a lot of my family and my parents grief on my shoulders, yeah. So it was like I was pretty much forbidden from going backcountry skiing and, uh, my parents really pushed me for a track of academics and music and languages, but they didn't see how much like athletics wasn't. It just wasn't that important in our family and in a sense now I feel like that's been a gift that they gave me, because had they pushed me, I don't know that I would have had the same drive to build my career as an adult, but I wasn't like allowed to go backcountry skiing.

Erik Nilsson: 10:10

Yeah.

Caroline Gleich: 10:11

And just trying to go skiing on the weekends yeah, and just trying to go skiing on the weekends. I would just try to figure out the ski bus back in the day when it would actually like you could actually get picked up, like on a street in Sandy, and get to Elta. Now it's a little bit different with the cuts to the bus service and things, and that's definitely something I would like to see our local and state government address is just the lack of systemic infrastructure to get people from all corners of the valley to the mountains.

Erik Nilsson: 10:39

Oh, exactly, I mean accessibility is the main thing, because I mean every single guest almost. When I ask, like, what keeps you here? What do you like, it's like, oh yeah, I mean obviously the outdoors. And now that we live in this world where we can enjoy anything from wherever we want to and we remote, it just makes that value proposition so much stronger.

Erik Nilsson: 10:55

And it's um and I love your story with your brother because I mean it like gives you almost like this connection when you're out there, because it's something you guys got to enjoy together and mountains that he, um, unfortunately like passed away doing. But like one of my uh friends from college acquaintances, steph hopkins, was also killed in an avalanche a couple years ago. And it's like there's part of you and like I don't know why my head goes like Batman, of like I mean Bruce Wayne parents die in a city, you could leave the city, but he's becomes the protector of the city. And, in the same way, like you could have easily picked the route of like I don't want to go back country skiing, it's risky, there's a lot of things and and choosing that option to enjoy and love it, even though there is this kind of I mean trauma and trauma with it.

Caroline Gleich: 11:40

Yeah, yeah, I was really afraid and um, just not I. I was curious, I was excited, but I was also deeply afraid. So, my um, after I graduated from high school I started to build my career as a professional skier. But in the back of my head was always this acute awareness of the consequences of my decisions. And most people start their backcountry career and they're kind of risky. At first. They're a little cavalier, they're a little loose. Then they have a close call or an accident in the backcountry with the avalanche or something else and then they reel it back in.

Caroline Gleich: 12:16

But because I started, having lost my half-brother, I just always would envision the worst-case scenario and I was incredibly conservative and I try to keep that same mentality going forward. Because you see a lot of times that people with a lot of experience and a lot of training get into the group think mentality. Or as you get older you realize you don't have as much time and you're constrained by time and that that changes decision-making. So I'm much more aware of the decision making, the, the, the risk management and the heuristic traps. You know our, our decision-making traps and I try to be always the person who will speak up and share the fears and put it out on the table or say if I feel like I should turn around or that the group should turn around.

Erik Nilsson: 13:03

Yeah, because I mean you could make the right decisions 99.99% of the time, but all it takes is that one time and it doesn't even have to be your own mistakes impacting you, but it could be someone above you who makes a mistake and all of a sudden you're, I mean, down out and from them, and that's when bad things happen and so okay, so you have these parents who are very academically focused.

Erik Nilsson: 13:23

I can understand that. I remember one of the first times I was proud to my mom that I got an A minus on this test and she was like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, what question you miss. I'm like don't love that, but also grateful for it, because she set the foundation of wanting a good education and she was someone I mean went to BYU and got her 4.0 and then went to MIT to get her like master's of biochemistry and then went to medical school at the? U and so always been and like dad, same story he got his PhD in psychology, became a neuropsychologist. So school was always like number one, like and athletics was number two, like. We all played everything growing up, and so I know that you went to the? U and that was also a big part of kind of what you decided to do with advocacy and um, where you wanted to take your life from here, especially paired with this experience of building your skiing career. But we'd love to hear kind of how that inflection point happened and when that like aha moment was.

Caroline Gleich: 14:46

Yeah, I guess. Just one other thing I wanted to say is that I did want to move to Utah when I was younger, but then I did move between my sophomore and junior year of high school. So that was a really tough time to move as well, and I had a lot of challenges as a teenager and into my twenties. You know, I just it was a hard time for me because I I don't know, I just I was real, I had a lot of mental health challenges and that time of life it's, it can be really challenging. So it was really hard for me moving here at that time, even though I desperately wanted to live in Utah. It was hard for me to make friends and I just always kind of felt like an outsider at first. So it took me a while to find my groove and to find my people.

Caroline Gleich: 15:28

And Salt Lake is interesting in some sense because, well, I think things are changing. It's still a sort of like a transient community, like people come and go a lot and it can be hard to find that sense of community. So it's something we really have to work hard to make in our town, something, um, we really have to work hard to make in our, in our town, and especially at the? U, which is like sort of a commuter college.

Caroline Gleich: 15:51

But yeah, I, um, I didn't really want to go to college because it's like wanted to ski I wanted to ski, so I really wanted to take time off and I realize now what a privilege it is to have parents, that my parents were faculty at the? U, so they started working at the school of medicine and just like parents, they're just so driven and like the expectation was always very high to have some PhD, md, jd, like you have to have some combination of conversations going through my head of college, like when I told my mom I wasn't going to go to pharmacy school and I was going to study business.

Erik Nilsson: 16:20

She's like great. So yeah, totally understand that like priority of it, especially having them like on campus being like how are you doing?

Caroline Gleich: 16:28

And deep in my heart it was the big mountains that called to me and I just knew that that's what I wanted to build my career doing. But again, that's just not a career path that was ever something that my parents or anyone in my life had Like. I didn't come from a family of competitive skiers and so, like when I started college, I got a job at REI on 3300 South and worked as a cashier and a greeter and then I moved into the action sports specialist and and I saved up to buy my beacon probe and shovel and my day, my day maker. You know the, the Alpine Alpine trekker, the inserts that go in your in your back.

Erik Nilsson: 17:09

Very cheap equipment Cheap yeah, grateful for that.

Caroline Gleich: 17:12

REI discount, yes, and then saved up to take my first avalanche course. And then, you know, I um, my parents had a colleague who worked with Kristen Ulmer, or who knew her, and so they did hire her to do a couple of coaching sessions with me to help me learn about the business of being a professional skier.

Erik Nilsson: 17:31

Because it's a business. It's a small business.

Caroline Gleich: 17:32

It's like I think a lot of people don't really realize what goes into making a living as a professional athlete and it's like you have to have a strong business sense and you have to have the ability to manage and to oversee a lot of clients Like now I have a global client list, like I do business worldwide, and it's super cool.

Caroline Gleich: 17:51

But she really helped me learn how to approach sponsors and how to put together a cover letter and how to send out my resume and how to go to a trade show and to approach 30 different companies to try to get those first sponsorships and also to make a list of the dream companies that I wanted to work with, and so one of those companies was Patagonia, because of their commitment to people and to the planet and to using for, for using business as a force for good. So I called Patagonia's team manager every six months for six years until they finally brought me on their athlete team. Yeah, so it was like I worked a lot of odd jobs and a lot of whatever I could do to help pay for my ski season, and then I would go to the?

Erik Nilsson: 18:33

U in the fall semester and the summer semester and I would take the spring semester off to ski and I love that you approached it like that, Cause there's so many people who have, I mean, hopes, dreams, things they want to do, whatever it might be.

Erik Nilsson: 18:43

It doesn't have to be skiing, it doesn't have to be sports but there's kind of this like gap between, like, I have this passion, but how do I make this something that I can do and provide a lifestyle with? And so that's a lot of things like. I mean, I've had friends that have become professional skiers, professional athletes, whatever, but a lot of them are really good at what they do is a whole different world to me. But to be able to do that and have the dedication to do it and then structure your life in a way where you can make it happen is a whole different story and a whole different drive that a lot of people aren't willing to make. That jump for and like and, of course like. That reward is you got to do it and you got to be able to be successful for it, and I think that almost like moment of Patagonia, being like you're in, yeah.

Caroline Gleich: 19:28

At the same time, it always feels really precarious, Like it feels like you're trying to grasp sand and um, you know, the contracts we get are typically year to year. Sometimes they're shorter and you constantly have to prove your worth and there's this feeling. I mean, I've had contracts in the past that said explicitly if you're unable to do your job for more than 10 days because of illness or injury, you're fired, and just only like that a lot of times. Like it feels like you have to work so hard to prove your worth, to make it happen, to make as much money as you can, because you just don't know what tomorrow holds.

Erik Nilsson: 20:16

Yeah. And then at the end of the day, and like it sounds similar to when I had Adam Barker on the podcast I mean action photographer, lifestyle photographer and he was the same way. He's like I had to sell myself as a business, like I knew I was a good photographer, but that doesn't matter. And then he got to the point where he's like I, this is what I have to do, it's my calling. And I was like, all right, like here we go, but at the same time, it's those same sort of contracts of like we can only have this guaranteed for so long.

Erik Nilsson: 20:39

You have to execute, you have to stay well, like and it's it's hard because there's that whole other aspect to it, because, like heaven forbid, you tear your ACL, which we'll get there. There's so much on the line compared to if I do it, I'm like, oh no, go get my knee done and sit on the couch for six months and hope it doesn't happen again. Like I can't imagine having A that like already. I mean not fear, but like recognition of, like the risks at play, mixed with like all right, please don't get hurt, please don't do this, please don't do that and go execute.

Caroline Gleich: 21:06

Yeah, and it's just a lot of pressure and sometimes the pressure feels really overwhelming. But going back to what you said earlier about finding that eureka moment, growing up I just was always someone who wanted to like fix problems and I just saw a lot of the problems of the world that bothered me, like inequality, people living on the streets, plastic pollution, climate change, air pollution, all those things and I wanted to do something to try to fix it. So I went through a lot of different itinerations of how I was going to solve problems, like I'd made art out of recycled materials and like would go to flea markets and then I had a vintage clothing pop up because I felt like our consumption of clothing was a huge problem and I was like trying to grasp out all these different ways to try to solve the problems I saw. But it wasn't until my senior year of college at the University of Utah.

Caroline Gleich: 21:59

I had been saving one of my prerequisites for graduation American national government because the topic, just frankly it didn't excite me that much. But I had an instructor, my professor Tim Chambliss, who I'm still very closely connected with to this day, and he posed this question to us how do you want to relate to government? Do you want your only interactions when you pay taxes or get a speeding ticket, or do you want to proactively come to the table and use government as a problem solving tool? And for me, that was a eureka moment. And he would make his tests so hard like you would have to memorize so many details about the inner workings of Congress that you had to do extra credit in order to pass. And his extra credit was that you had to go to the Hinckley Institute of Politics forums. You had to attend and you'd get more extra credit if you asked a question. And at that point I was getting close to graduation. I was on the dean's list, I was getting close to graduating with high honors, so I wanted to get that A.

Caroline Gleich: 22:56

So, I went to every Hinckley forum, sat right in the front, asked a question and what I didn't realize is that was the perfect training to become a very involved citizen advocate. The perfect training to become a very involved citizen advocate. It's about being in the room, having a question, ready to go, getting your hand up, being curious, motivated and excited about how you can use your voice to shape government and to shape our government policies.

Erik Nilsson: 23:17

Totally, and that was one thing I talked about with Councilwoman Eva Lopez-Chavez, and she's like, if you have an opinion, it could be something as silly as I want pickleball courts in my park like they're not going to know unless you show up and ask the question or propose something.

Erik Nilsson: 23:31

And in the same way, because I actually did, uh love the hinkley institute of politics, I did a summer internship in dc um, interning at the treasury.

Erik Nilsson: 23:39

That still is like one of my favorite college memories of being living there with friends, but then also like being very um, I mean, participating a ton in politics and understanding what's going on. And that was a great experience. And and it's so funny because we have so many people today who are frustrated, don't like where things are going, but at the same time it's like, well, all I have to do is show up, like there's there's so many things you can do to be involved and do this and at the end of the day, it's the people who are doing that. They're going to have the most impact. And so I love that you got involved well, kind of forced to get involved, but then it like sparked this interest where you can see it, and so I love that you have that and also we'll probably talk about a little bit, but using the platform that then you have to, then try to influence and make a lot of these things more of a reality that are so near and dear to your heart.

Caroline Gleich: 24:21

That's really cool. You did a Hinkley internship because, yeah, tim, professor Chambliss encouraged me to do a Hinkley internship, so I worked for Ted Wilson, who was Governor Gary Herbert's environmental advisor at the Utah Capitol, and Ted was he was he ran for the US Senate in 1988. And he was a Democrat who worked for a Republican and he really showed me how we can come together, find common ground, how to make our voices heard. And he was a Mounteer as well. He did the first ascent of the Great White Icicle in Little Cottonwood Canyon. He was a legendary rock climber, skier and mountaineer and he recently passed away.

Caroline Gleich: 24:57

So I'm going to his memorial tomorrow. But he really taught me how to run a meeting, take my seat at the table, and how to be really effective at what I did, at what I'm doing now. So I think about Ted all the time and, yeah, and I think for people, young people especially who are looking for ways to make their voices heard and to find solutions to the most pressing issues facing Utah and America today, I would highly encourage them to get involved with the Hinckley Institute.

Erik Nilsson: 25:24

Absolutely, and it's so interesting, like you talked about, is in that class that using government and politics as a way to solve problems and you could almost argue today like governments being used as a way to create problems or instill problems to keep power being had and that's a whole, nother tangent of conversation that we can come back to at some point.

Erik Nilsson: 25:42

But so I love that you have, I mean, this college experience. You have a way of getting involved and having this like itch scratched of, like kind of how you're going to put together all of these passions that you have into what you want to do with your life and how you want to spend your time and then, but also at the same time, like getting to do the things you love, which not a lot of people get to do that or find that fulfillment ever, and you get to put it together based on all of this curiosity. So I love that you were able to put that together and find this, this path forward, that aligned with all of that, so you don't feel like you're sacrificing any of your values.

Caroline Gleich: 26:16

Yeah, yeah, ted really wanted me to stay as in public service and I. I just had to go to my calling and work, yeah and so, but I knew that doing that I could. I was one of the first athletes with protect Our Winners. I've been involved with them since 2009,. So for a very long time.

Erik Nilsson: 26:30

For those who don't know, can you explain what Protect?

Caroline Gleich: 26:32

Our Winners is.

Erik Nilsson: 26:33

Yeah, protect Our Winners is the name tells a lot of it.

Caroline Gleich: 26:35

But yeah, it's a group of snow sports. It started with snow sports athletes, but it's a nonprofit devoted to using our love of the outdoors as a way to fight for climate action. Yeah, yeah.

Erik Nilsson: 26:50

Perfect. Um, yeah, great cause and I mean that's one thing too is because, like everyone here obviously loves being outside and it motivates so much of us, not even just like from a sports perspective, but even from like a like an art perspective. We have like one of the highest populations of, like landscape artists. And I was talking to someone and he was like well, I don't understand why it is like, have you ever been to Utah, like if you're looking for something to paint and you walk outside and you're like bingo, case in point.

Caroline Gleich: 27:15

Yeah, oh, I also just wanted to give a shout out to Heal Utah that's another nonprofit that I got involved with really early on, and our Utah Sierra Club and we have so many other great grassroots environmental nonprofits and that's another great way for people to get involved to help make an impact on the air quality problem we have. And Patagonia has a really cool tool on their website. If you type in Patagonia Action Works and you put in your zip code, it will connect you with local environmental nonprofits in your area and even just taking the first step signing up for their email list. That's how I found out about a lot of the opportunities for advocacy that I've engaged in A lot of public hearings, public comment periods, rallies, protests, things like that is through those Just signing up for their email list. They have lobby trainings. They will teach you how to show up and be an effective citizen advocate. So I did a lot of those trainings early on.

Erik Nilsson: 28:08

Yeah, first step is knowing what's out there and then eventually getting involved and showing up, cause, I mean, all of us have opinions, all of us are get frustrated about the same thing. But there's a saying from my late step grandpa that he would always give those from. I think it's by LeGrand Richards, and when I went on my mission he gave me like a stack of these cards and for some reason it stuck with me ever since. But it's for every problem under the sun there is a remedy or there is none. If there is one, hurry and find it. If there is none, never mind it. And so to me it's like, oh, like, does this matter to you or can you control this?

Caroline Gleich: 28:37

Cool, then take advantage, like do something we enjoy, but kind of there's this gap between like well, I want to protect this, but how can I play a part in it? Am I just one person? But it's like if everybody does it, or even a handful, then it does make a pretty big difference. That really concerns me is these concentrated efforts by our Utah legislature to dilute the power of our votes, to make it much more difficult for people to give public comment period, and so that is definitely something I'm really concerned about, and just seeing the rise of extremism.

Erik Nilsson: 29:18

Yeah, and it's one of those situations where if I don't want to phrase this If a wrong is being done to one population, you let it being done, then you open up that path for being done to the other. And so while there's people who, like, might be on that extremist side or like the other side of the proverbial aisle that we talk about, and they want to take away rights from them, it's like, well, if you open this, then if the wind changes, then you open up to that. So there's so much more of a like I don't know, creating an even playing ground, or I mean, at the end of the day, like protecting us as citizens and voters of our democracy, that we have like to take it away is insulting.

Caroline Gleich: 29:53

Yeah, at the end of the day I mean the people at the Utah legislature, at our state level and at our federal level they are spending our money. They work for us. It's our taxpayer money. We deserve to have our voices heard, and if you don't like what they're doing, we can't keep electing the same kind of people. We have to have new leaders. If you want to change politics, you have to change the people that you're sending to be our politicians, and that's what we're trying to do, and we can talk more about that.

Erik Nilsson: 30:21

We'll get into all that sort of fun stuff.

Caroline Gleich: 30:23

It is really frustrating right now in some sense, and I was really discouraged about the results of our 2020 census and redistricting where we ended up with these really horrifically gerrymandered districts that make it very difficult to elect representatives, that they don't, because our communities are fractured. It's really hard to achieve community-wide solutions to the issues like traffic and roads and things, because the districts are just cut apart in such weird quadrants to keep people in a certain group in power.

Erik Nilsson: 30:59

Yeah, and you look at it and it's like okay, so we agreed to have like a third party consultancy come in, like we recommend this. They're like, nah, let's just do this instead. It's like okay, well, because again it like just makes you feel hopeless. It makes it yeah, I think that was probably one of the most hopeless of all the things that have happened in the past five years of it but it's like cool, so now we can't again cause like, if you don't like something, vote against it, but if you, if you, can't get enough power to vote it out, then again you just feel so it's fun talking to you because I I had this hypothesis before, just kind of like going, just learning about you.

Erik Nilsson: 31:33

But you're a very, um, accomplishment oriented individual. I hear it in your uh desire to want I wanted to get it stay on the Dean's list, I wanted to have a, get an A in this class, and I mean then that cascades and all the other accomplishments that you've had that are very I mean amazing. I mean with the um, the 90, uh, the shooting gallery, climbing, uh, oh, my gosh, climbing Mount Everest with a torn ACL with your husband and all of these other things. But I'm curious just kind of your perspective on like how you've gone about this and like maintaining all of these accomplishments and really having the grit to do them all, cause a lot of them aren't like a one and done, but really like dedicating and knocking away at a lot of this.

Caroline Gleich: 32:11

Yeah, I mean, right now I have like a lot of different theories, but I think sometimes that drive comes from a place of like deep insecurity and it's like that kind of feeling of being what I was talking about when I was a teenager, having issues with depression and anxiety. I think sometimes, when you don't feel complete on the inside, you look for outside validation and you try to mask your pain or your suffering with like chasing these things over and over. And so I that's kind of a dark answer, but you know, may is mental health month. It's, you know, middle of May right now, and I think a lot of people this time of year especially really struggle with it. And so I do believe it's a sign of strength to be open and honest about the reality of our, of the challenges. And so sometimes when you see what you see on the outside, you see like maybe like some of the brightest people I think, have the darkest shadows.

Erik Nilsson: 33:05

Oh, without a doubt, and like I've seen that unfortunately in my life, is like if you were to tell me at this point in life how many friends I would have dead in jail, addicted to drugs, alcoholic, divorce, you know, that's kind of more nuanced Like I would never believe it.

Erik Nilsson: 33:19

And it's so funny because, like I used to be the same way, like seeking a lot of external validation and the things I did, like IE, like the test with my mom, I'm like mom, be proud of me, I got a good grade.

Erik Nilsson: 33:27

This is so important to you and have her be like well, you know, like good could have been better, right, and so that was so much a part of my life.

Erik Nilsson: 33:32

Because, like I grew up, I mean even that time of life and I mean it's hard to be really happy in your teens in general, and like I come from a family that struggles a lot of anxiety and and depression, and so that was something I eventually had to to I address and deal with head on, or else it was just going to continue to be this pattern in my life. And, granted, like it's a journey, not a destination, and every day is something that I have to deal with and some days is better than others, but at the same time I'm glad and proud. I'm sure you're in a similar boat where you can recognize these patterns, get the help that you need to have a community and support that can help you when you're down and also just realize like hey, today's a bad day. I just need to focus on myself and really just not make myself be in a worse place by trying to show up and have that smile on.

Caroline Gleich: 34:19

Yeah, and I think sometimes there is a level of like masking or chasing those things that maybe it is a healthy way of coping.

Caroline Gleich: 34:28

I mean, there's no perfect answer, right, but I've had like life coaches or therapists that are like you need to sit with the discomfort and that didn't really work for me to move past it. Like sometimes you do have to go out and chase something that's like an external thing and look for that external motivation and like maybe that's not the worst way because it's certainly better than turning to drugs or alcohol or like there's all these other things. And I think throughout my adult life I've just been trying to find the right balance. You know, it's like easy to overdo it with endurance activities, it's easy to overdo it in the mountains, it's easy to overdo it like with advocacy or running for US Senate, and so it's constantly this battle of finding the right level of like how much you're going to give, yeah, and how much you have left. But at the end of the day there is something beautiful about trying to mask that inner trauma with a life of beautiful distractions and chasing external and externalities.

Caroline Gleich: 35:19

And I think if you're self-aware, maybe it's not the worst thing yeah there's a lot of ways that you can try to cope, and so what if you can find a way that you can harness that inner darkness, or that, that inner angst, into something positive. I think that's as good of a way of dealing with it as any and it's hard to be.

Erik Nilsson: 35:37

Well, it's hard. It's like kind of a double edged sword. It's hard but it's rewarding because there is no one size fits all. There is no like just do all of the. If everybody just does this, this and this'll all be happy. And it's so, so personal because, like someone would be like, oh, I'm struggling with my mental health when I do, and you're like, hey, go for a trail run, go in the mountains. They're like I hate this, this isn't helping. You're like, okay, like maybe not for you, right, there's other things you can do.

Erik Nilsson: 35:58

And thankfully, yeah like listening to your inner voice and what motivates you and guides you is such like a simple thing, but at the end of the day, like that's usually what that and these are my own personal experience the more that I've worried, or like listen to my voice and like one thing that's helped me a lot with my mental health, is like the creative side of me, like, within the past year and a half, have jumped into. I mean painting specifically, I mean created the podcast has helped me as well, but I wouldn't necessarily say that's the same for everybody, and so being able to be honest with yourself and choose the things that do ultimately create the best outcomes for you is the best thing that you can do.

Caroline Gleich: 36:30

Absolutely yeah, and I think just being open and honest that really helps. For me, being able to talk about it really helps, and it's been really refreshing that we're in an era now where so many more people are open and honest about their struggles. We have more of a recognition, because I feel like growing up like our generation. Well, I'm not sure how old you are, but there's just a greater awareness now for parents with their kids about how they can do parenting in a more integrative way.

Erik Nilsson: 36:57

That's like creating more securely attached children, and so it's cool to see, it's refreshing to see that there's a new wave of being more integrated mentally, physically and all these things, yeah, and it's been fun to see my, my sisters, raise kids, because I don't have kids but it's so fun to see them learn from because obviously we had the same quote unquote, like same childhood, being in the same home, same parents, same everything, and seeing them, because it's always interesting to see parents these days, because I think there's this common theme of like I don't want my kids to go through what I went through and it's like, yeah, well, if you're already recognizing this, that's the first step, and so it's fun to see how much like seeing my sister talk to her kids about emotions, how to process them, how to like going through breathing exercises when they get upset, and I'm like just like with those like proud moments, and like realizing like if you set the foundation now, there's so much more better outcomes in the future and I don't have children either.

Caroline Gleich: 37:48

But I follow all of those like parenting accounts, like dr becky and good inside and like all these movements, because it really helps me reparent my own inner child, yes, and to redefine and like reprogram that inner narrative of like you're not a bad kid, you know you're not bad, you're, you're, you're okay, you know you're okay. So, um, it's're okay, you know you're okay, so, um, it's, it's really cool, yeah, it's fun to watch Totally Um change topics a little bit, but kind of want to.

Erik Nilsson: 38:15

I mean thinking about your ski career. I want to talk about it for a little bit and like, from your perspective, what were some of those most proud moments, whether it be I mean sitting on the top of a peak you always wanted to have, or even just I mean similar to your Patagonia story and having this client that you've always wanted to have. Just kind of want to look at that and hear what the things you're most proud of.

Caroline Gleich: 38:32

Yeah, Um. Well, when I started my ski career, you know the first year was like 2003, 2004,. We were still shooting on film cameras, so Facebook wasn't even around yet. Not quite I don't think I forget what your Facebook was, but anyway, yeah.

Caroline Gleich: 38:50

So I think early on I was really excited to get on the covers of ski magazine and powder magazine and all the different ski magazines on backcountry and it was different because you had to have the ski magazines tell your story, like you had to wait for a journalist or a photographer and then, as it shifted oh, I think also like being into Warren Miller films was pretty exciting and showing the world like our beautiful Wasatch Mountains skiing for the camera was. It's always fun. I love working with photographers and videographers and helping to get the shot. It's a fun, creative pursuit. It's not like nearly what you think it is. It it's like a very slow way to ski powder. You know like if you're working on a photo shoot you get to take very few runs in a day. It's very different, but it's also really gratifying and I just love the collaboration. And then after that, I would say, going to the Alps and skiing in Chamonix, skiing a bunch of big lines there. Yeah, that was really fun. Um, I like I had.

Caroline Gleich: 39:54

I met my best friend, liz in on a Patagonia photo shoot in Chile and she lived in. She would spend her winters in Chamonix and she was training to be a mountain guide. So it took me a while to build my skills to the point that I felt like I could be a good partner for her, and then going to Sham and skiing a bunch of big lines together was really gratifying. And then we did Alaska that year too, and then after that spring, the following fall, she died in an avalanche in Patagonia. So that was really hard. But shortly after that I went to Ecuador and climbed and skied the three highest peaks in Ecuador, which are the highest is over 6,000 meters, so yeah, 20,000 feet. That was really gratifying. And then I skied in Peru. I put together an expedition for my, for Rob and I, and I planned it all and built our acclimatization plan and did all the logistics and so just all those little milestones, I think, were you know.

Caroline Gleich: 40:46

It's like it's a fun progression to think about and I like the process too yeah and then in my home mountain range you know the year 2012 I skied all the three star lines in the shooting gallery okay, so all the mega classics yeah, what are those three for my own no there's 12 three star

Caroline Gleich: 41:02

lines so three stars, like the most classic, like the best ones. Really it's like lone peak tanners, baldy shoots um, I'm trying to remember, but little pine superior, a bunch of others so the good stuff the good stuff, yeah, so that was really gratifying and, um, I think, especially like skiing lone peak. Lone peak is just such a classic. It's one of my favorite ski lines in the Wasatch.

Erik Nilsson: 41:27

I'm envious of your, of the perspective you have of the Wasatch front, from, I mean all of that and I cause I mean even talking with like Nate Rafferty about it like a lot of people don't realize until you start to get into the back country and really start exploring like kind of how it? I mean it's big, don't get me wrong, but it's also pretty small at the end of the day and like cause you can go from, I mean deer Valley to park city up to um, uh, I mean brightness, solitude and snowboard and now it's like easier than you think. I mean it's not like easy, but there's ways to get to all of them interconnectedly, whereas if you're just driving around you don't kind of don't realize they kind of share a lot of backyards. Yeah, and I think it's interesting too because again, like the outdoor enthusiast quote has changed so much, especially in Salt Lake over the past 10, 15 years where when I was growing up and super invested in skiing, it was me showing up to all the matchstick productions and going to the um, getting their autograph at sports den before and just being so stoked. And then now, all of a sudden you see this transition within maybe like the last five years where, uh, skiing is such a small piece of the pie compared to everything else, because they'll be skiing in the winter and then there's also going to be this whole touring aspect of it, but then in the summer then transitions into I mean trail running and mountain biking and road biking and it's kind of this holistic like.

Erik Nilsson: 42:38

I mean mountaineering but like also just like mountain enthusiast, and so I like that, like from again going back to the perspective of you being a good representation for what Utah is and is trending towards becoming. I feel like you're someone who understands all of these hobbies and things that drives people here and what we want to protect, especially when there's these opposite forces trying to take it away from us. And like examples like I mean Bears Ears, and like the mind they want to put in Parley's Canyon. It's like no, no, no, like we are all people who want to enjoy this, not have it taken away from us, just so we can go make another dollar and have our economy grow another 10 basis points.

Caroline Gleich: 43:10

Yeah, yeah. It's super interesting how much things have changed in the last decade, because I just remember there used to be lines in the shooting gallery that were really hard to find, like it would take you a couple of different tries to find this like one couloir.

Caroline Gleich: 43:25

But now, with Strava, and with all trails and all these digital mapping things and with social media, it's super different. You know, you can just literally cut and paste, find someone's track, follow the blinky line and you can get there really easily using the same track the person put in the day before. So that part has changed also, and so the forces, like the amount of usage too, has also increased a lot.

Erik Nilsson: 43:49

Yeah, I mean and we see that I mean obviously within ski resorts, of seeing people. I mean it was nice when I didn't have to wait in traffic or wait in line at a ski resort, no matter the day. And then those days are behind us and I mean we could complain about it, we could be excited about it, but at the end of the day it's happening and it's kind of the reality we have to face. But at the same time, like then we see this I mean growth in, I mean touring and everything else.

Caroline Gleich: 44:08

People explore and enjoy it so much more but if we're not involved in making these decisions for our future, then it's like the established politicians, like the, frankly, like I don't at um, with all due respect, like for the older generation, we like respect and appreciate the wisdom of older generation, right, but right now they're overrepresented in our in, in our government, especially in the U S.

Erik Nilsson: 44:32

Senate and they have less of a runway that they get to enjoy it, compared to this, like I mean the millennial and like Gen Z generation that we have upcoming it.

Erik Nilsson: 44:42

And it feels insulting to be like you guys don't get to make all the decisions on your way out the door and then have us kind of deal with all of that repercussions on their own.

Erik Nilsson: 44:51

And and then I agree I mean even talking with people like I mean very different from you politically in a lot of ways, like Rochelle Morris, who's running for the county council seat at large. Even whether you're liberal or conservative, everybody wants to kind of have this like fresh breath of air, these fresh faces, compared to even presidential elections, the easiest one to kind of point out being like do we really need a couple guys in their 80s and we're fighting about which one is least mentally healthy to get us through? It's like no, we need fresh blood, fresh perspectives, but also this change in mentality, of kind of keeping these positions of power and people who've been there for decades Instead of saying like, hey, listen, we actually want to get problems solved and we want to change this cultural issue that we have with politics and really focus on getting things done instead of using problems to continue power at hand.

Caroline Gleich: 45:39

Yeah, I think Bhutans are really tired of being political pawns in these increasingly extremist games, and you know, the other thing I would say is that we really need to have our government also recognize the value of conservation and of the outdoor recreation economy, because I think historically in Utah, our government and our business leaders have looked at our public land. They've looked at our land as a natural resource to be exploited and to be something we can profit from, and there is a huge value in conservation. And so being able to bring those numbers to the table and getting folks to realize that conservation is also an economic driver and that trail development responsibly done is going to add value to our land for decades to come, those are some fundamental shifts that we need to encourage our leaders and, frankly, bring new leaders to the table so that so that land can be protected and can be valued for what it is for an intact, healthy ecosystem, and also to create more corridors to link together our swaths of protected land.

Erik Nilsson: 46:45

And it's so like. So I live in Marmalade district downtown and like part of my view, or I mean like around me is like the gravel pit that's like right on um on Beck street and then you also have um the refinery right there, and like sometimes I'll look at like the Kennecott copper might be like, oh, that's just like. Oh, just like these huge scars from us and like, granted, like I get it, like I'm can't tell them. It's hard to go back with our current mindset and impose it on them, but at the same time it's so sad to see that's what we needed to drive like the economy then and then now it's so much of like the tourism and especially like tech and like we see tech slow down, and so I feel like there's like some people being like well, if we can't do that, we got to do this. It's like no, we don't. We still need to protect everything and conserve what we have.

Caroline Gleich: 47:27

And there's so much disinformation from the extraction industry that puts the blame on us that it's like you have an iPhone, you're responsible for the copper pit, you know for the strip mine, but there's not enough talk about conservation and recycling. Copper is a resource that can be recycled, and how much of the copper couldn't we make our devices and things so the copper could be better extracted and recycled, so we don't have to keep digging deeper and expanding Kennecott wider at great risk to our air and water? Like, aren't there other solutions we can also be doing at the same time? I think it's so often presented as like a shame thing or like a it's your fault, you're the consumer, you have a laptop, you're on the iPhone, when in reality, um, it is the corporations and the lack of oversight into, like the production to and recycling, recyclability at the end of life of products Like that also needs to be a big part of it.

Caroline Gleich: 48:24

Conservation needs to be a big part of it, but it's not as black and white as they want us to feel it is.

Erik Nilsson: 48:32

Lobbyists love their jobs and have unfortunately gotten way too good at it. Again, try to have this argument. It's like no, this is what's happening. Like not really, and I think there's a whole nother avenue to look at, but that's not what pays your paycheck. So here we are.

Caroline Gleich: 48:45

Yeah, I mean we're fighting like hundreds of millions of dollars of disinformation efforts and ultimately, like what I see, a lot of the problems in America right now. It's like we're pointing fingers and fighting each other when we really should be fighting the corporations.

Erik Nilsson: 48:57

Yeah, and they're just watching us fighting like ah, silly kids, let's go do our thing, like we always have.

Caroline Gleich: 49:01

Totally. That's what they want is like the more divided that we can seem and the more chaotic, the more that they can continue to exploit and, to you know, price gouge and do all these things and to leave us and to exploit workers too. One of the cool things about running for US Senate is to learn about labor unions, and I've been working closely and learning a lot about the different union efforts and how they're standing up to fight big corporations to have better working conditions, and I think that's something that we all want is like we all want to make a little bit more money and feel a little bit less of a economic strain. And the quality of living in Utah right now and the price of living it is it's bananas Like it's so stressful.

Caroline Gleich: 49:46

It's part of the reason, to be totally frank, that I haven't had children. It's like how do people do it? I pay for my life. No, it's like a little child who's relying on me Totally. I mean the price of housing and the price of groceries and gas and bills. I'm trying to remodel a deck here and the bids I've gotten. I don't know. It's so expensive to do anything like that, so it's really stressful right now, totally.

Erik Nilsson: 50:12

Like I'm someone like comparing my income to the median, like definitely above it, but there's like I'm like I'm making this much money. How is everything as tight as it is? This doesn't make sense.

Caroline Gleich: 50:22

I know it's really hard and you want to save for retirement, you want to do all these things. It's like it feels really stressful.

Erik Nilsson: 50:27

Sometimes you see all your friends vacationing in Europe in the summer. You're like, how is this happening? I don't understand. But that's a whole nother topic, um, but cool. So I want to go back to like so you have this amazing ski career, you work for some of these companies that you align with and your values, and it's funny that you had, um, uh, I can't remember if it was a professor or in your internship with, like you should do public service, and so I'm curious, like, was that ever in the back of your head before you made the decision, or was it completely? I mean, I just want to hear more about this decision that you made and what led up to it and what was like that final nail in the coffin of like, let's do this.

Caroline Gleich: 51:00

Yeah, I mean there were a lot of things, but 2016, one of my close I so I got to work with my I. I did a lot of trips over the years, like working with environmental nonprofits, going to the state legislature and then going to Washington DC and you know I testified to the house and to the Senate and going to DC like I really enjoyed that work. And then one of my friends who worked for the Obama White House on climate and clean air, she worked for Hillary's campaign for 2016. And she asked me to do an endorsement for Hillary and my social media and I was like so afraid of the bullies and the trolls that I didn't do it. And then on election day, to see the results of the election and to see like no, I didn't think Trump could win.

Erik Nilsson: 51:49

It was an interesting day.

Caroline Gleich: 51:50

I was in New new zealand actually with rob and we were at a bar. Just stay here what's that?

Erik Nilsson: 51:55

I said you're looking like. Do we just stay here now?

Caroline Gleich: 51:57

yeah right, and everyone was like feeling so sorry for us as americans that we had this leader and just feeling so embarrassed, being in another country, that my country could elect this man who was like an open, basically criminal who bragged about sexually assaulting women, like a totally unqualified person and just really a scoundrel. It was embarrassing and I was like horrified and then over the next four years just seeing the amount of harm that he inflicted.

Erik Nilsson: 52:28

And it only got worse from there. And it only got worse from there.

Caroline Gleich: 52:30

And it only got worse from there. So in 2020, I was like I'm going to do everything I can to make sure we don't end up with another Trump term, and so I worked really hard on a Biden-Harris endorsement campaign like making cool graphics and pushing my fellow athletes and influencer content creator friends to do endorsements for Biden-Harris and together together we reached like tens of millions of people with this endorsement thing on social media. It was super fun.

Erik Nilsson: 52:55

I really enjoyed working on it, I mean it was a grind for sure, Like all that stuff is on top of all the other stuff that you have to do for content and stuff.

Caroline Gleich: 52:59

It's like this whole avenue not to mention, it was like in the midst of the COVID pandemic where, like, I had to take my business trajectory in 180 degree different place because, like all my jobs, all my, a lot of my sponsors canceled and like it was a huge hit. You know, whereas, like are we gonna have to grow like all our old, all our own food here? Like are we gonna have to start like harvesting oats to make like our own nutrition bars. Like you know, my own clothes, I know get some cows, pigs, chickens.

Caroline Gleich: 53:29

I think that's the thing about like having that trauma mindset you know from I don't know exactly what it was in my childhood, but just like being from that, having that kind of brain wiring. You just always think of the worst case scenario when something like that happens. So, anyway, it was, like you know, a big restructuring and I think our country and our world is still recovering from the mega shift of COVID. But, yeah, we're learning how to do things in a different way and I was just working so hard but I'm really glad how hard I worked and that we did elect the Biden-Harris administration, because it brings a lot of decency and accountability. I mean, it brings like they're like you know, they're not perfect- no one is.

Caroline Gleich: 54:08

but it's not marriage, you know it's four years and it's like it's also the people that they are bringing into the administration, all of the appointed seats across our entire federal government, and it's just bringing that decency back to our leadership and that really matters. I believe it really matters Like our kids are watching and what are we?

Erik Nilsson: 54:28

showing them, showing us I'm fighting and being kids and saying he said, she said, and tattle, tattle, like it's, yeah, it's childish and yeah, and to see at least like, and it's so wild to fight and be like we're fighting for decency, like, like, what a low bar In tech honesty for someone who's not a criminal and a sex offender, you know so welcome to.

Caroline Gleich: 54:47

America, anyway. So then, last spring I did a candidate training with Utah Women Run at the Hinckley Institute, because I wanted to learn more about what it would look like to possibly run for office and also how I could better support candidates that I want to see get elected as a content creator and as an athlete Like I wanted to see as an advocate how I could help better help candidates.

Caroline Gleich: 55:08

So I did the candidate training and there I met Gabby Finlayson, who runs Elevate Campaign Strategies, and I talked to her in a breakout group because she runs this campaign management team with a couple other folks that are determined to electing progressive candidates in the state of Utah. I told her I want to take out Senator Mike Lee in the inS Senate. I'm like we got to take Mike Lee out. I want to run against, I want to take him out. And so then over the summer I looked at running for the state legislature and I examined my district and I met with a couple of people looking at it, but the district was so gerrymandered.

Erik Nilsson: 55:43

It's just like not what I wanted a campaign to look like. Yeah, yeah, like Park City Salt.

Caroline Gleich: 55:55

Lake. You know they're all so fractured and divided it's like like the most specific of like pieces of pie that like dissect in the weirdest ways possible, totally Like. I just live right outside of Park City and my district goes all the way to the Idaho border but it doesn't include Park City.

Erik Nilsson: 56:04

That makes?

Caroline Gleich: 56:04

no, it makes no sense when you're looking at creating systemic solutions for transportation and other issues and housing and all these things. So it wasn't what I was. So I was like I'm not going to run for office. So, flash forward, it's the last Friday. It's the first Friday of January. I get an email at 9 pm from Gabby and Jackie and Ben at Elevate asking if I would run for the US Senate seat. You're like um, I would run for the US Senate seat.

Erik Nilsson: 56:27

You're like um I had 48 hours to decide. Excuse me, because I can't imagine being like, oh, maybe we'll run for state, maybe I'll support some people, but being like, well, you know how you wanted to take Mike Lee's seat? Well, similar, but how about the seat that's been on the forefront of American politics for the past four years, of the guy that's been the, the one to throw a wrench in a lot of, like the republican happenings and like in a lot of the news would be like, how about you take that seat? You're like, yeah, well, let me, let me think about this. But what was that 48 hours? Like it was talking to what's going through your head?

Caroline Gleich: 56:58

yeah, I mean, it was like that feeling of fear and excitement. You know, it's like the same feeling I had with the fascination with the shooting gallery and backcountry skiing after my half brother died. It's like that mix of like intense dread and fear, but also excitement and curiosity, and so to like lean in and to go into those things that make you so deeply afraid, it's a really powerful way to help create healing.

Caroline Gleich: 57:26

And when we think about the leaders that we have, if we don't like them, we can't just wait for somebody, some savior, to come along. Like we have to be that person and Utah deserves better from our elected officials. We deserve better from our leaders and you can't. I realized I can't wait till I'm 65 and I'm retired and I'm independently wealthy. I realized I can't wait till I'm 65 and I'm retired and I'm independently wealthy, hopefully, and I'm getting, like, my retirement money. Like I realized I have to do it now because Utah needs me.

Caroline Gleich: 57:55

And so there's some mountains that you pick and sometimes a mountain picks you and this was one of those lines that was like calling me and I had to do it because Utah needs new leaders. And I was also really inspired by Senator Romney in the Senate. Never did my 16-year-old self think I would be regularly quoting Mitt Romney, but he really, in his term in the Senate he showed us real leadership and that is the ability to speak up and do what's right, even when it's unpopular, and to be a person that has a conscience, a moral compass, and that acts with integrity and puts principle over party. Those are qualities that I admire and will work hard to continue in my role as a candidate and as Utah's next US Senator.

Erik Nilsson: 58:42

Yeah, I think he's been a great example Because, again, left, right up down Democrat, republican, those are all things that we would want from people, people who are willing to do what's right, people who are willing to speak up, people who have morals, decent people really have this conversation and, and I totally agree, I think it's it's. It's what we all want and what we all need and I mean, guess, as we've I mean now you're obviously actively campaigning, you are now the official Democratic nominee for the seat. I mean, what's campaigning been like? What's?

Caroline Gleich: 59:14

fundraising been like Expectations versus reality. How's that? That's a great question. Oh, that's a big question because it's hard, it's really hard.

Erik Nilsson: 59:24

I get to have someone a political guest on my podcast, being like it's been amazing, I've loved it.

Caroline Gleich: 59:28

It's so like every day is just perfect yeah. It's a big mountain to climb and especially as a first time candidate running for a US Senate seat, you know the average cost of a winning Senate race in 2022, do you want to take a guess at how much that cost?

Erik Nilsson: 59:44

Yeah, $30 million $23 million.

Caroline Gleich: 59:49

So it's a big amount. We just hit a half a million in fundraising, which I'm really excited about. Yeah, it's huge. I mean that's a huge amount of money to raise.

Erik Nilsson: 59:58

I can't imagine going to anybody, no matter how many of them are, and be like all right, half a million dollars, Just write it out here, I'll give you a tax break. But come on, no, it's not tax deductible. Just kidding Jake On the tax break. I just need your money.

Caroline Gleich: 1:00:10

Yeah, political contributions are not tax deductible and, as a federal candidate, there's like so much reporting and compliance, and so that's a big part of it. And then it's like a really interesting business challenge to be able to scale a business from like zero to 2 million in like 10 months and to have staff to and I mean, hopefully we can raise more than that, but it's a really interesting challenge. And then, and it's just, it's a big shift. But I love the challenge and I love the opportunity to serve Utah. I love to go out and it's not nearly as much like we're.

Caroline Gleich: 1:00:45

We've been working really hard on the fundraising and hiring staff and like building this thing so that we can scale it. And it's one of those things that just takes everything. You know, setting a big goal like this and it takes everybody to. You know, getting everybody in your personal life to contribute to help you, to help you not just once but multiple times, whether that's hosting a fundraiser, hosting a meet and greet, like volunteering for a march or a parade, like it takes a total, like this huge movement, and so putting all the pieces together, making sure you can thank everybody, learning, listening, taking feedback and being able to not have it be about you, but this is about Utah. That's the most important part for me is that to make sure that I'm listening and learning and being the kind of leader that we need.

Erik Nilsson: 1:01:33

Yeah, and I think that's that's one that resonates with me a lot is when we vote for someone or put someone in office, it's not because, like, oh, I like this guy's point of view, I like this guy's um platform, whatever. But it's like how well are you going to represent us? Cause we're voting for you and last thing we want is get elected. Go and be like so, thanks for the recommendations, go home, I'll take it from here.

Erik Nilsson: 1:01:52

I think I know better than all of you and that's happened enough that it's like no, like we need something fresh and something that can understand and listen and again like going back to like you being this great candidate of someone not from here but comes here, who appreciates the outdoors, who's so involved in being outside and in the mountains, who wants to protect our environment, who wants to protect this place that we call home for as long as we can.

Erik Nilsson: 1:02:12

I mean, that's what makes people stay here and want to be here.

Erik Nilsson: 1:02:15

And so it's insulting to Utahns to have like all these desires and goals and what we want and just to have it like fall flat time after time. And I'm so excited for this new fresh blood of um kind of this new political presence or persona that people want to have, because that is what people want is want to be heard, want to be listened and actually have things solved, instead of just this other fear tactic after fear tactic to try to gain and maintain this power. And so I know that, um, obviously, a lot of your platform is based on, I mean, the key things that we're talking about. I mean amongst Utahns, everywhere it's like air quality, great Salt Lake not getting becoming the salt flats, everywhere, making sure that we can have access to our outdoors and making sure that we do have these values heard. But I mean anybody who's I mean here wants to vote. I mean, what kind of message are you leading with or what would you want people to leave with as far as what you stand for and what you want for us?

Caroline Gleich: 1:03:08

Yeah, I mean, our top line message is that if you want to change politics, we have to change politicians. It's time for new leaders. This is exactly what Senator Romney was calling for. And then the three pillars of our campaign are advocating for our families, our freedom and our future.

Caroline Gleich: 1:03:22

So, when it comes to families, we have to make sure our economy works and that Utahns can afford to live the American dream Home and that Utahns can afford to live the American dream Homeownership having a roof over your head. You know, it's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. We've got to make sure people have shelter and food and that they feel safe, and so definitely there's a lot more the federal government could be doing in terms of housing affordability and addressing the things that are causing people to become homeless or to experience homelessness. And then we also need to make sure that people are not worried about losing their home if they have a healthcare crisis. I mean, how many of our friends is like GoFundMe should not be a healthcare plan? No, it shouldn't. I mean, I always try to contribute whenever I have a friend that does. I've had a lot of friends that have had life altering injuries, and so I'm always trying to pitch in when I can to their GoFundMes, but we're the richest country in the world, like we can do better for our people, for sure.

Caroline Gleich: 1:04:18

And then the other big part for our families is making sure that parents feel safe sending their kids to school by enacting common sense, gun reform, which it's like just unfathomable unfathomable to me that in 2024 we still have not, that we still are dealing with school shootings and the fear of um, you know, and like at the university of utah, you can open, carry a weapon, but you can't have an alcoholic beverage so much sense yeah and it's, and it's wild to see like literally like the at least least it was, but I'll fact check it of the most common cause of death for like youth in America is like shootings and like gun Gun violence yeah, that's a whole one.

Erik Nilsson: 1:04:58

That's like we could pick apart for hours. But at the same time it's like it's so crazy that that's the world that we live in of. Like I hope my kid comes home, but I'm still sending him here, and if I don't send him, then I get in trouble and I don't have time to homeschool and I don't even have really much money to do anything else and this is all that I have.

Caroline Gleich: 1:05:13

And so it's like all these issues kind of intertwine with each other Totally, and just the rates of death by suicide too, for teenagers, I mean. I believe that's also one of the leading causes of death. Now for our young people, and to address the mental health crisis and to give more young people hope, yeah. So then, when it comes to freedom, we are going to fiercely defend reproductive freedom and get the government to stop policing and creating all these regulations around our bodies, around what books we read, around what bathroom we use, and to get at the end of the day, like, abortion is health care and health care is a human right.

Caroline Gleich: 1:05:56

And it's just the Dobbs decision opened the door. The undoing of Roe versus Wade opened the door to all these unintended consequences, and Utahns are really waking up to what that means now. On the ground, one in five practitioners OBGYNs are thinking about leaving states like Utah. There's a huge backlog. If you try to make an appointment with a gynecologist, it's like a year wait sometimes, if you're not pregnant, I will have my child before I can see my OBG Totally, and it's also creating a huge rise in our maternal mortality rates.

Caroline Gleich: 1:06:29

So the number of women or people that are dying in childbirth and that's disproportionately affected. It's disproportionately affecting people of color, rural people and other marginalized groups. So it's really important that we get the government to stop creeping around our doctor's offices and interfering with decisions between patients and their doctors and correcting course and getting them back on track.

Erik Nilsson: 1:06:51

Yeah, and like it kind of goes into that same theme that we were talking about earlier, about like, if, like, if you do it to someone else, then it opens the door of someone doing it to you, and so it's like, just like, why can't we just govern ourselves? Like we all love America because of the freedoms that it has. But then when it's like little by little, someone tries to, because they have these opinions, values, perspectives that they think supersedes everybody else's perspectives and values that they want to impose all of these restrictions that have all of these complications and impacts from it, but at the end of the day, they also want to harp on this and like I agree with it. Like that we do need to have a lot more like personal responsibility. Like I hate when there's someone like I eat McDonald's every day and I'm getting fat, like we got to do something about this.

Erik Nilsson: 1:07:33

I'm like, yeah, well, you could do something about it. And so it's like open us to make our own decisions in life and realize, like, if it's not imposing on someone else's freedom, their health, costing them money, then why are we doing this?

Caroline Gleich: 1:07:44

Right, but I think also we need to have more funding for education and more comprehensive sex education and more access to contraceptives, like condoms should be free. If you're going to ban abortion, I mean condoms should be free and you should protect people's right to access abortion services, because abortion is health care. If you have a miscarriage, you need an abortion. That's just a fact. So we need all those things like we need more education about nutrition, how to do your taxes, family economic issues, like all of these things. So I would also like to see more investment in Utah per pupil spending, because right now, we're one of the lowest in the nation.

Erik Nilsson: 1:08:18

Totally and we see like this mass exodus of teachers that are like I don't want to deal with this anymore, like I don't want to potentially be tried or lose my job or anything If I mention a book or sexual orientation, or like the amount of friends that I've had who when they graduated college or got into teaching, they were the most actively excited person shaping the youth, and then it just got them to the point throw their hands up, be like cool, I'll just go do any other job, I can make more money, I don't have someone breathing down my neck all day and I'm not this political pawn. And so it's like these things are. Like we look at the future, be like if we don't have good teachers teaching our kids but we're trying to police all of these things and like doctors don't want to work here anymore. Then I mean there's so many impacts that I think get taken away outside of personal opinion and again like imposing their own opinions on people of how they should live their lives. Would it be like just lay off, yeah.

Caroline Gleich: 1:09:04

Yeah, and we also need to make it easier for Utahns to be able to access government, to use it as a problem-solving tool, and to do that we need to protect our voting-by-mail systems. There were some attacks on those last legislative session. We need to end the illegal and partisan gerrymandering by advocating for federal solutions like the Voting Rights Act or the Freedom to Vote Act, and we need to reform campaign finance to end the influence of special interest groups and corporations. The campaign finance thing is oh, it is mind-boggling and the effects of Citizens United decision that allowed corporations to spend unlimited money and to allow dark money to infiltrate through these super PACs. The effect that it's having is that it keeps kind of corrupt politicians in office and it makes it so we don't have a level playing field as Americans Dilutes the power of our voice and our vote.

Caroline Gleich: 1:10:01

And then, when it comes to our future, we need to accelerate our transition to clean, renewable energy, while supporting our legacy energy producing communities and making sure that they have good union paying jobs. And we need to make sure our Great Salt Lake gets enough water by accelerating conservation and making sure that farmers are getting like rapid incentives to reduce consumption of water and that we can get more water to the lake. And then we need to advocate for policies like 30 by 30 to protect 30% of American public lands and waters by 2030 as a climate solution. So we need to be really actively preparing for our future in those ways.

Erik Nilsson: 1:10:41

All things I actively agree with. And it's so wild to think that it's these hills we have to die on, because no one would ever think like, oh hey, we have to fight for the great salt lake, because if we don't have a great salt lake, there is no lake effect. If there's no lake effect, there is no great snow. There is no great snow, there is no tourism, there is no tourism. Then how do we have jobs and how do we stay here? And and it's like these, these effects and this like domino effect that a lot of people, I mean, tend to have, these like opinions.

Erik Nilsson: 1:11:06

I was talking to someone the other day about the Great Salt Lake. They're like, well, it would happen regardless if we were here. We weren't like no, that's not true. And like the air quality, they're like, well, it's an inversion, there's nothing we can do about it. I'm like that's also not true. And so it's interesting that the older we get and we realize these are the things that we do have to fight for and want. We can't just sit there passively and think that these problems are going to solve themselves. In reality, we do need new leaders, new politicians that do want to solve these issues instead of just being okay? Who can write me a check for this? Who can keep me in power for this? Who's leading the super PAC that gave me so much money? Because that again doesn't lead to outcomes that we want to have happen.

Caroline Gleich: 1:11:50

No, and we also need more women as our elected officials. In the entire history of the United States, there have only ever been 60 women in the US Senate. Right now, there's 100 US senators. Only 25% of them are women. And there's a fun fact there are more men named John currently serving in the US Senate than there are women of color. Wow, yeah, and I'm only the third woman in Utah history to ever achieve the official nomination for the US Senate. Utah's never sent a woman to the US Senate.

Erik Nilsson: 1:12:19

The time is now. The time is now 100%.

Caroline Gleich: 1:12:23

So there's definitely a lot of good research that shows when you have more women in elected positions, you have better policy. Women govern differently. And it's time, I mean, and it's.

Erik Nilsson: 1:12:35

I mean the old. It's like the ultimate benefit of diversity is people with different backgrounds, different understanding, different perspectives. Because, at the end of the day, if you want to have a carbon copy of the same person in a room and think that something's going to change, like good luck and good night and so like and also I'm a fundamental believer and if, like nothing changes, nothing changes and so and like it's probably a little bit like my iconoclasm coming out, but like I'm willing to worse, breaking the system if it means taking a step in towards improving the system. Because, like to your point of I mean the example of like cell phones and copper and recycling, it's like could we listen to this voice of like well, it's your fault, you're doing this're doing this, we're already doing it. It's like, or we can be like, how can we come to the conclusion that we want to? Or what can we do to improve off this like V1 and continually improve, instead of throwing up our hands in the air hopelessly, which is what the bad guys want?

Caroline Gleich: 1:13:20

Exactly, yeah, yeah. So for everyone who feels apathetic, I really encourage you to get involved. One of my favorite Yvonne Chouinard quotes is that action is the cure for depression. Yeah, and that's really helped me in my life. Like when I feel sad and hopeless, there's always a way. It sometimes takes time Like it doesn't happen. Sometimes it takes years to find the turnaround, but the more that you can take those feelings and try to channel them into something positive, something good, the better off our world will be.

Erik Nilsson: 1:13:55

Yeah, absolutely, like plus one to that 100%. We have to do something because again, like then, you fall into the insanity cycles of hoping for a different outcome with the same inputs and hoping something's going to change and that's just never the case.

Caroline Gleich: 1:14:02

Yeah, and that's certainly the case we see with our elected officials. If we can't keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result, we can't keep sending these same lifelong politicians or these independently wealthy older people into these elected offices and expecting them to do things any differently.

Erik Nilsson: 1:14:19

Plain and simple.

Caroline Gleich: 1:14:20

Yeah.

Erik Nilsson: 1:14:22

Anything else specifically you want to?

Caroline Gleich: 1:14:24

cover, like right now. As for the US Senate campaign, we do need a lot of help and support. So if you can help us spread the word, go to carolineforyoutahcom and send it to a couple of your friends. Or if you can chip in a couple bucks, even $3. Everybody gives $3. That adds up quick, it does, yes. Or if you can give $3,300, that also really helps us. Yeah, whatever you can do to help us, it is a monumental mountain that we're climbing and it's going to take everybody, and so this is a team effort and we'd love to have you as part of the team.

Erik Nilsson: 1:14:56

Absolutely Come join before we actually come back to that one really quick. But so three things, two that I always leave every guest with, but one. Another one is how have you not started your own supplement brand called glycogen, glycogencogen, like I was thinking about up here? I was like that's perfect, we could. So if you need help getting your new brand off the ground, give a portion to environment or something. Listen, I think we're on to something here. Okay, I like glycogen. We'll get it off the ground, um, and love it. And then two things. I always ask guests uh, number one if you could have someone on the small lake city podcast and hear more about their story and what they're up to. Who do you want to hear from?

Caroline Gleich: 1:15:32

Have you had Jenny Wilson or Aaron Mendenhall yet? Neither, but both are people I would love to have on those would be two people that I would love to hear from Deal, I agree, yeah.

Erik Nilsson: 1:15:43

And then secondly and we kind of touched a little bit and I'll probably put some of that at the end of this but if people want to find out more about you, your campaign, upcoming events and how they can get involved, what's the best way to find that?

Caroline Gleich: 1:15:52

Yeah, to either go to our website, caroline C-A-R-O-L-I-N-E-F-O-R-U-T-A-Hcom, or our Instagram is Caroline4Utah. Go to our website. You can sign up to volunteer to be on our email list. Help us, help us spread the word. That means a ton to us Chipping in. And then my personal page is Caroline Gleick C-A-R-O-L-I-N-E-G-L-E-I-C-H. So yeah check them out, follow along, keep in touch and thanks so much for having me.

Erik Nilsson: 1:16:21

No, absolutely. It's been a pleasure, nice to sit down and finally talk with you, excited for your campaign. Definitely keep following, and so if you want to get involved, go to the website Again. At least sign up for the newsletter. It's the first step towards getting involved and having the outcomes that we want. But thank you so much, caroline, it's been great. Thanks so much.