Negativity, Boldness, and Reading Habits

On today's episode, we chat about books, what we get out of them, our habits with reading, and taking the time to read to improve your marriage, your business, and relationships. Plus our struggle with starting a book club.

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Transcript

Ben: It's easier to be negative than positive. And I feel like we all have a habit of when somebody is doing something that we don't ourselves enjoy, when they are improving themselves by utilizing that thing, we tend to go, ugh. Welcome to Velvet Ventures.

Channing: Where we talk about life, marriage, and the pursuit of entrepreneurship.

Ben: I'm Ben.

Channing: And I'm Channing.

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Channing: So this time we're actually going to talk about reading.

Ben: Our ADD getting the best of us talking about reading, which is why sometimes I think it's hard for me to read, because then I get thinking about other things. Especially if I'm reading about something interesting.

Channing: Yeah.

Ben: Because then my mind starts thinking about the things that I'm reading, and then next thing I know it's been 10 minutes and I've read like three pages, but I don't remember any of it because I've been daydreaming.

Channing: Yeah. So why don't we go over like what kind of books we like? Okay.

Ben: Fiction.

Channing: Which, tell us what that is. Tell me what that is.

Ben: Fiction. I always say this way. Fiction is false. Nonfiction means non-false. And by false I just mean this is a novel, this is made up, this is a story not based on, you know, this isn't 100% true. So.

Channing: And even though he says it that way every time, I still never remember.

Ben: Yeah. I try to give her that analogy of non-false or false? Fiction is false, but it does not stick.

Channing: Mm-hmm. It's like when he tries to explain to me the speed of the internet.

Ben: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Channing: Don't understand it.

Ben: But... So we enjoy non- typically non-fiction, and I think we enjoy parables, but not novels.

Channing: Yeah. No, I don't... I don't read novels.

Ben: We watch TV for that kind of thing.

Channing: Yeah. I watch garbage TV and applicable books.

Ben: Yeah. So I think we like, I mean, I like biographies. I like books on, I don't like the word self-help, but self-development maybe finance, History, mindset, Christian books, things of that nature that basically what's gonna help you get better and how do you books that help you I like marketing and economics But things that are gonna help you either understand the world understand the world in which you are operating or that you want to be operating in and

Channing: Also, what do we think or behave the way we do.

Ben: Love human psychology.

Channing: So we have... we never did answer how many books we think we have. That's what we got off track last time.

Ben: Yeah.

Channing: We'll stay on track this time. Yeah.

Ben: Maybe.

Channing: I mean, I would think we have at least 300.

Ben: Oh, yeah. We probably... I would say that we're probably on the cusp of...

Channing: The kids' library.

Ben: Oh, well we're including the kids' library.

Channing: The regular library.

Ben: We're probably north of 1200 to 1500. Yeah.

Channing: We could probably technically actually be a library. You only need 979 books to qualify as an actual library and receive like government grants. Did you know that? We get some tax credits or some grants or something. I'm pretty sure the last time that I heard that statistic, it was only 979 books.

Ben: It's kind of like you are used to. So the town that I worked in when I first was old enough to go work outside the farm was they just beat the census by like 15-20 people to not be classified as a village because as soon as you get beyond that number you can now be called a town and they just I always still refer to it as the village of but they didn't appreciate it the people who are I would say yes, we have we have we have over a thousand and then yes if you throw in the kids library and stuff we probably have somewhere between 1,100 and 1,400

Channing: Yeah, we we have literally a library in every room except for bathrooms Because even the kitchen we have a library and the kids don't have their books in their room. They're in shared Hutch in the game room. But, so, how many books would you say that you've read this year? Between audiobooks and physical books?

Ben: So this year, I don't know, probably 18, 20 something maybe? I could go back in my app. Yeah, I could go back and look through my app and see how many I've completed. There's been a few that I've gotten like halfway through that then it kind of like okay it petered out and I no longer was getting anything from it and I thought maybe I would enjoy just the storytelling but I didn't so there's probably about five or six that I got halfway through that I decided I'm not going to spend any more time with this.

Channing: And when did you start reading? How long have you been reading two books a month?

Ben: Probably, I mean, probably just last a year and a half, two years, probably two years, roughly. Because I got to where I was doing more audiobooks than like podcasts. Well, I still do a lot of podcasts. But I was doing the books when I'd be at work, like driving to work. Driving to the office or...

Channing: Do you read less now that you work from home?

Ben: Yes.

Channing: Now there's not a commute?

Ben: Yes. Now that there's not a commute and now that I'm not sitting at like either a desk where I'm driving around the job sites or-

Channing: In the kitchen.

Ben: In the kitchen, yeah. Back when I was- I consumed a lot of music and podcasts when I used to work in food service and would be in the kitchen because I could get-

Channing: Which Ben was a chef.

Ben: Yeah. I could get five to six hours of podcasts in a day. So now it's- Yeah, it's a lot less. So I do enjoy whenever I do. When are I have to go to job site for our handyman business because I get a little windshield therapy and get some, some time to listen to my tests books whatever I'm listening to. But, cause right now I find it hard. I just need to get better now that I am home. Um, I need to get better about just kind of carving out. And I think I just need to start with like, I'm just going to carve out 20 minutes to sit down and physically read. Um, because if I just wait, I'll try to read at night and then I'm laying down in bed and I'm trying to read them in the one arm chairs. When the book falls it hits me in the face. I know it's time to close it because even whatever I am reading I'm not going to retain it. So, yeah, I just need to get better about that. What about you?

Channing: So I just really started reading this year. Last year I read three books and I always liked the idea of reading. Like when I would see other people just out in public reading, I'm like, oh, they're so cool. But this year I challenged myself and I don't do New Year's resolutions. So like this is not a New Year's resolution. We were just talking about this last night. This is this is a new habit that I want to keep. But this year reading a book a week. So I've read 38 books so far this year.

Ben: And how have you done that? How do you manage to?

Channing: Some weeks I don't read any. And then I'll finish I like reading two to three books at a time, which does help keep up with that level. But again, my ADHD and chaos focused brain, I find that I actually retain the information better when I have multiple books going at a time I'll get bored if I just read one book all the way through. So like when I take bath time, I've got two to three books on the ledge and I read, you know, 30 to 40 pages of each. And so there might be weeks that because they're bigger books, I don't actually finish any, but then I'll finish six the next week because I was coming to the end of all these at the same time.

Ben: Right.

Channing: But I have really prioritized my reading this year. Because it's a commitment that I made to myself. Like it's not a New Year's resolution. It's a commitment to a habit that I made this year to myself. And I have grown leaps and bounds in business ownership and communication skills and self-awareness. And so that's why I want to keep doing it because I want to be the best version of me that I possibly can be and books are what's helping me get there faster than just running through life trial and error. And as a business owner, I need constant encouragement. And there's only so much encouragement from you that I'm going to believe. Like you're married to me. You should be my biggest cheerleader. So when I'm really down, it helps to get outside perspective because I know it's not they don't know me. They didn't, they wrote this book 12 years ago. Cause that's the other thing. I read a lot of books from like the 80s, 50s, 40s, I've read some from the 30s.

Ben: We don't run out and grab like New York Times bestsellers.

Channing: No, and typically, even though we have those on our shelves, they're not the books that I gravitate towards. I like the old school. I think it's, I think a lot of that has to do also with, there's a, I think there's a certain level of perception. I think there's a certain level of truth behind reading history because that's even, I mean, it's crazy to think, I mean, the 90s, I mean, that was 30 years ago. So, you know, it's like, there's a lot to be said about reading something from the 90s to see if it's still applicable today. When what I find most often is just like fashion, economics repeats itself.

Ben: Right.

Channing: And so when I read books from the 30s or 40s with marketing or with it, I actually get a lot of really great ideas that other people aren't using yet. But the movement's coming. It's coming back, I should say. And so if you can figure out what was happening and where the trend is starting to pick back up, you can actually be the trendsetter or be on the front wave of that trend we're coming back into the mom and pops. This wasn't the economics platform 15 years ago. 15 years ago, people wanted Fortune 500s and they wanted a big giant conglomerate company and they wanted a big bolstered brand that they could trust. That's what it was about. And now people want you to be the brand. They want you to be the company. And they're kind of coming away from the larger conglomerates to find people that they connect with that happen to run companies. And so there's a lot you can learn even if the book is quote unquote old.

Ben: Right. Well, and I think that a lot of that is, everything comes back, tweet. I mean, like what we're doing right now this is radio, you know, and so it's just, I mean, we're obviously nowhere near the forefront of podcasting, but it's, it's very much. Back in the 50s, 40s, 50s, before TV was prevalent in everybody's home, what was in everybody's home is a radio. Well now, there's not a radio in everybody's home. What is in everybody's home? A phone. What does everybody have with them all the time? A phone. So, where do you need to go to be able to talk to people? You need to go where they have the technology to listen. And so, what's a good format for that? There used to be radio shows, but now, you know, people don't want to be a part of a station and they don't necessarily want to be a part of all this stuff and deal with the bureaucracy. Like you said, we're getting to mom and pop. So instead of us, we're, you know, going on whatever K-O-C-O blank blank. Now we make our own show. We record it in a spare room in our house and upload it. You know, which is like how YouTube is to what, you know, cable TV was. I mean, you know, the whole nightly people could get on that local cable channels, you know, after 10 PM and they could air their own little random shows they created in their town. And they would just air it after all the newscasters.

Channing: I immediately thought of Wayne's World.

Ben: Right. Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's, that's what YouTube is. It's the nighttime after 10 PM after the nightly news, the broadcasters, they just shut off airwaves, essentially and you had local cable channels would just air, you know, the locals that recorded and wanted to have a cable TV show. And so I think that that's when we look at it from that perspective of it's the same thing. It's just a new updated version.

Channing: Yeah, just a new iteration.

Ben: Right. And so, you know, I think that that's what this is. And I think that by reading those older business books, you can kind of, you're a little more aware of when things are changing. Well, okay. So I read, you know, this is happening now. I can attribute that to kind of what's going on here. What did people do when things were down that now they're successful or then they became successful afterwards? Like what, what were the plays that were made? And so I think that by reading and not just reading like, I know some people who they will only read, you know, novels, which is fine. But at that point, I'm like, like, I don't feel like we read for entertainment. We read for knowledge. We read for, you know, expansion of thinking.

Channing: Yeah.

Ben: Because we don't, we're not super social people. We're at this junction in our life where you know, if you're not bringing positive energy and you're not bringing encouragement and you're not bringing, cause like, that's what we try to deal out. And I try to be very conscious of not being negative towards people whenever they are interacting with me. And so.

Channing: Well, I think just right now with, with trying to grow the businesses and become the best versions of ourselves, like we need a lot of focus at home right now. And so, at least for me, I don't have the emotional bandwidth to have a lot of friends.

Ben: Right.

Channing: Because I'm working really hard on me. And I'm working really hard on the business. And I'm working really hard on the family. And so I'm spent.

Ben: Right.

Channing: You know? So I've got some people that I communicate with on a more regular basis. But I wouldn't say that like I don't go out and have girls night.

Ben: Right. Well, and I think that, I mean, even like when you, when you were at our other, uh, at our other house or neighborhood, you know, when you had your growth night, I think it was always, there's a level of fun, but I could always tell that you were drained afterwards, like the next day to four days after that you were pretty well spent, you know, and not a hundred percent, I mean, you still would, you know, get up and we'd go do stuff or whatever, but I could definitely tell that there was a portion of you that was checked out. And I think it was just because everybody was in there complaining about their husbands or complaining about their, you know, lack of husbands or lack of this or it just seemed like it was a lot of... and it may not have been directly negative, but there was negative tones and negative underlying energy. And I think that we both are very susceptible to when there is negativity, it can just drain you.

Channing: When people speak about actions that they would like to take, but they're taking no actions, that's very draining and very frustrating for me. Because as a starter, I'm like, just fricking start. Who cares? Hit the wall. It's not going to hurt as bad as you think it is. And so when it's the same, repeated, like we're a month later and you're still talking same thing. I've already started and failed at three things. You know, and so for me it's just like, you know, get off the pot.

Ben: Right.

Channing: My tolerance. My tolerance starts taking a nosedive.

Ben: Right. Well, I think it just, you know, you get to those... You get around those people who are just all talk and there's no action. Like it's one thing to say, I want this result not making strides, but I'm each day I show up and I try a little bit, you know, and so you may not have made it yet, but you've at least taken a step forward. But yeah, whenever it's been a month or two, and it's, I mean, I still haven't started that thing that I want. Why are we still talking about it?

Channing: Yeah.

Ben: Try or try not, you will fail.

Channing: Basically, my books are my friends right now because if a book is negative, I just shut it and I put it back on the show. And I have learned a trick. So if I ever read a book and so I was reading this book called pushing towards the front. It's been read by almost every single president that's ever sat since it was published. This guy wrote this manuscript, and this was back in like the typewriters for super fancy days, right? And I think he hand wrote his first transcript and then his apartment burned. And this is like a 400 page book. And instead of giving up, he rewrote the entire book. And it's all just about determination and diligence and like you have everything that you need to be wherever you want to be, but you have to want to be there bad enough. And so it took me a whole year to get through that book because it's very like old language. Like it was a rough read. And it's funny because he put it at the back of the book, but he said in his book, like books should be used for knowledge. So if you ever find yourself getting bored in a book or not understanding where it's fluffed, a lot of, there's a lot of, um, newer books I found that are fluffed. A lot of the old school books, the author didn't care if it was 50 pages. If 50 pages got their point across, then that's what it was. Now it's like, oh, it has to be, you know, two to 400 pages to be a New York Times bestseller. The publisher says, you need this many. And so his tip was read the first sentence and the last sentence of a paragraph and move on. And if you don't understand where they got from here from A to B, then read the middle and so there's been a few books this year that I used that technique on because I'm like, I mean, the title says it should have good information and the author says, you know, the author that wrote it, I should have information I could grab from this person of high standing. And the book sucked. And so now when I finished those books, I flipped them spine side in and they still go on the shelf cause like maybe it was just the writing style that I didn't agree with. And I'm gonna pull everything I can out of that book. I'm gonna finish the book, but I don't need to read and antagonize over every single word of that book because it should be teaching me. If it's not teaching me, then it's wasting my time and my time is precious. Cause there's only so much of it. And so we've got a few books that are kind of turned around on the shelves you know,

Ben: You could be reading this in a season that's not meant for you. Because you know, there's, there are things that you're maybe reading about that they're either, you can't apply them right now. And so they seem, right. They seem irrelevant or you just, you can't understand it because it's like you haven't been through this yet. So I think that there's a lot of stuff that's like, you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with stopping cause I've stopped reading books before. And then it's like, you know, maybe you go, and try to pick back up and maybe now I can read it. But it's a nice stuff.

Channing: I figured out where to read to. Cause like, part of me always felt weird that I can't just read in silence. Like I feel like I should be able to, that's how you're supposed to read, right? No, I need music going in the background. I find I read best in a body of water. I know that's super weird, but like the bath or the pool. I retain information a lot better when there's other sensory things happening. I read a lot this summer at Louie's in Edmund. I like their bartenders and they'll leave me alone and just make sure my soda stays filled. So I'd go up there and read for four hours, you know, because there's this outside auditory noise. But like to just sit in the living room without a record playing or without music going, there's no way that I could because again my brain thrives in a little chaos. So I have to create a little chaos if I'm gonna be able to sit down and read front to back a whole book.

Ben: Yeah. So I think that you know, I pick most of my things based off of, you know, where, where do I currently feel like I have a gap? You know, so whether that's, I mean, I'll pick podcasts out this way. I mean, if it's something that, because I mean, there's some podcasts that I used to really enjoy that I no longer do because I've outgrown it. And it's not because they're still not super relevant or entertaining, but maybe they got too political. Maybe they got too there's a couple of them I was really disappointed with that they do a lot of repeat and just play old episodes. I just don't play an episode because I get excited because it just says, there's a new episode and it's like they'll start out saying like, oh, you know, it'll start out like a new one that says, oh, we hope that y'all enjoy this great episode from 2017, you know, and it's like, what? And so there's a lot of those ones that I've now outgrown and I can just even tell from the titles, that's like, I have no interest in hearing from this person or from... And sometimes I can be a little closed-minded, but I think also it's knowing, like... person I've listened to some of their stuff before. It's not anything I want to spend the next hour diving into and then sometimes it's, you know, do I just want to be entertained or do I want to learn? But I typically will pick stuff and especially with books on either from a recommendation or from, you know, I have a gap where I would like to learn more about this. And then I just so happen to be listed in podcasts and then recommended or have the author on. And so that's kind of how my reading list gets chosen. A lot of the times is either most of it's by recommendation. Every once in a while it's just by, I'll see something and I'm, oh, this author was on years ago on the show and I forgot all about him and now they have a new book.

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Ben: But yeah, I think that's the other thing is I enjoy just facts, you know, so to your point of... And I'm not.

Channing: Right.

Ben: Well, I just mean like to your point that if it's 50 pages, but that's what all the information is, that's fine. But it gets, it's funny because if you go and look now, and this is another thing about me and my personality is I notice a lot of things. Go look at a like an antique store or wherever they sell vintage books and you'll see them varying from you know half an inch thick to two and a half three inches thick. And it's not that oh all the ones that are super thin are about this or they can vary and you can just look at a shelf lined with hundreds of old books like from the you know call it 60s or 70s and um, and ladder and you'd sit there and see like, there are all kinds of varying thicknesses of books. Then do like a Barnes and Noble and look at the new books and 90% of them are all within 40 pages of each other.

Channing: You know, and I think that that's funny is even still, a lot of those are still only really 150 pages long. It's just, they included an epilogue and an acknowledgement and then they also by this author.

Ben: Right.

Channing: They also have the index, which they have to do because they're citing their sources. But then they'll have also by this author about this author. So now the book is 400 pages. Well, I'm like, you only had a hundred. What's wrong with having 150 pages of hard packing truth or ideology, you know, like.

Ben: It probably boils down to the tooling of the machines and the shipping.

Channing: We don't turn our printers on for less than 400 pages.

Ben: Well, I just mean like the binders and stuff. They're probably like, well, we have to retool it. That means that we're doing a book that goes, this book is 180 pages and this one's 250. I don't know how those machines all work, but that's just my analytical brain thinks you would have to retool the machines or their separate machines, multiple machines for different ones. So let's everybody hit the same number of pages. Cause sometimes they're just blank pages in the front or the back. Um, but also I think, you know, so much of our commerce is also just side note driven by shipping. So how many boxes, how many books can we fit in a box? If the books are this thick, then we have to change our boxes. So how can we keep it consistent and how many of those square boxes can we fit inside of this box that can go in the shipping container? I can then go on that, you know, something that's that's the way a lot of stuff is just done. Cause I mean, like I said, even look at, again, go back to when we did things, maybe more inefficient, but even the height of books, you know, some of those books will be super tall, super deep, super, you know, shallow. And then again, go now and they don't vary much over an inch from each other unless they're like, you know, an encyclopedia type, you know, whatever book or whatnot, but everything has just been regulated to a certain size and thickness and stuff. And it's just funny to kind of know just because we have so many antique books and we have some newer books to see when you go to start, you know, putting them in the bookshelf and you put them next to each other. You're like, interesting to see.

Channing: When I like reading the old books too because like we have a book club that we run it's once a month and I like that I mean you'll have some books that most people have read once in their life like Rich Dad Poor Dad or Secrets of the Millionaire Mind but then you've also got these other books that like half of our you know crowd has not even heard of like The Richest Man in Babylon or if they've heard of it they've never read it. The E-Myth Revisited.

Ben: Do it scared.

Channing: Like there's a lot, we don't go based on a New York Times bestselling list. It's literally because I'm reading so much, it's what book do I think we want to talk about as a group.

Ben: Right. What book was beneficial to you? How can we then share that?

Channing: Right. And our first book club, it was just you and I. And we still chose to have it and we still went through the discussion questions. And that was the first time that we ever had really discussed a book, like we'd read the same books, but we never like sat down and what did you pull from it? What were your thoughts? Here's what I thought. What do you see? What are your thoughts and opinions? We've never really done that before and so, you know, you're like, well, do you want to keep doing it? I said I do because regardless of anybody shows up or not, like if nobody ever shows up, this is still going to benefit us and our marriage. And so this is still a priority to me. And like it's gonna be whatever God wants it to be and he might only want it to be us Yeah, or he might want it to turn into multiple locations and they're happening all over I don't know, but I'm choosing to release my you know One of my want to control everything on this one thing I'm not I'm choosing to have no control at all and it's just gonna be whatever it's gonna be.

Ben: Yeah, and It's slowly growing

Channing: And we have a lot more interest online than we actually do in physical attendance. And so we've been talking about, and I mean, we have more, we can see who's gone through to purchase the books and we have more book purchases than we have attendees. And so we've even been discussing like, well, do we have an online book club and the physical? Like I still want to physically meet. But what if we had a secondary book? That is just for the online. And so if you can't make it to the physical or you're not in Oklahoma City, then you can still participate. And so that's an idea that we're kind of exploring. But I think books have made a dramatic impact in our life, our marriage, our businesses, for sure. I mean, the only reason why I have the audacity to look at selling a CRM is from a book. And it wasn't even about CRMS. It was about online coursework and how you should send postcards to people because it was written in the eighties or nineties. But- Take out an ad in your little paper. But I was reading this book and this guy was just like, figure it the freak out. And I was like, all right, I'm gonna figure it the freak out. Like, I'm just gonna do it. Like what's the worst that could happen? Nobody buys, whatever. It's still something I need.

Ben: Yeah, well I think that's I don't want to say like as a society, but I think book clubs used to be such a big thing for people. And I think a lot of it just boils down to entertainment. You know, there's so many things that you can do now that are entertaining and mindless that it's just easier to do those things, you know.

Channing: Well, I know a lot of book clubs on novels and fiction.

Ben: Yeah, because they're entertaining. And fiction.

Channing: But I don't think I've ever been invited to a business book club or a financial book club or a marketing book club or because I don't think it's again,

Ben: that's, that's college.

Channing: I don't feel like you're kind of choosing to look at this like business counseling, like group counseling, because that's what it felt like last time. You know, we, we just we just explored areas that we're struggling in and we explored struggles that we've had in our marriage and we were very open and honest about the pitfalls that we've found in business and it was very therapeutic. I look forward to that continuing and the group to grow so more people can have that kind of outlet.

Ben: Yeah. I think we've already discussed about, I mean, we're only a couple episodes in on this one, you know, discussing, doing a podcast book club, like I'm sure there's tons of them out there, but doing our own in a format that we like with obviously the books that we choose that have benefited us. Um, and having that be something that is also in tandem with the physical book club, but that, you know, again, because we understand that it's very hard, you know, to make time not only to read the book, but then to go and attend a meeting, essentially to talk about the book.

Channing: When honestly, like the amount of pushback that you get, is pretty surprising. Like any time that I have told somebody, more times than not, when I've told somebody I'm reading a book a week, I get a reaction that's either like, that's crazy, or that like,

Ben: It must be so nice to have all this time on your hands.

Channing: Right. Or that they almost look at it as me thinking I'm better than everybody else that isn't reading. I'm like, no. Never once did I say, I'm reading a book a week, so I'm not an idiot. Like I just said, I'm choosing to read a book a week. And like, there's not a lot of like, that's amazing. How's it going? That's not the reaction of people, huh? And so I think when somebody makes a decision to intentionally improve themselves in that way, it can be really disheartening because you're more than likely you're gonna get pushed back in some way or the other. And they're probably not meaning to push back, but it's just weird. It's weird. And so putting yourself around other people that are also weird, it's gonna help you stick with whatever that habit is that you're trying to create.

Ben: Right. Yeah, I mean, because it is, it's so much easier. It's like with anything, it's easier to be negative than positive. And I feel like when you try, when anyone tries to improve themselves, it's quite frankly, it's the same thing. Like if you heard someone say, like, I go to the gym every day, you go, and I think it's kind of the same thing. Like, oh, well, let's be nice and be able to get up in the morning and go do this. And I feel like we all have a habit of when somebody is doing something that we don't ourselves enjoy, they, when they are improving themselves by utilizing that thing, we tend to go, yeah, well we're very self-focused as creatures. I mean, it's all about our survival, you know, but I mean, it's kind of like, you know, when people that have been together for a long time, the other one starts like getting into shape and like working out or just trying to get better care of themselves. Like, well, you. you doing something or like what are you trying to get better for? It's like for me you know um and so I think that it's hard sometimes because if we're not there in that journey like like when I stopped smoking you know

Channing: I was pissed

Ben: you were not in the in that place to quit smoking and I just decided I'm done I'm tired of feeling like this or whatever you know I mean that was that was a major conflict. And it felt to me like you were attacking, like how dare you try to be healthier, you know? And to me I'm like, I don't understand. And so...

Channing: Well, it was my own insecurity coming out.

Ben: Yeah. But just how it's like, you know, we are very all about self-preservation. And that self-preservation could be, I'm going to preserve myself in a state of misery. And misery loves company because it's a lot easier to do that than to say, hey, let's hold each other accountable to get better. Whether that's physically, mentally, emotionally, you know, those are so much more difficult to do. Like, I mean, if we started a cookie club, like I guarantee you I could have a dozen people there weekly to eat cookies. But you try to have a self improvement book club, you know, and it's crickets.

Channing: Right. Because, I mean, we advertise, like, the only books that this book club is going to read is business, financing, marketing, economics, self-help, leadership, psychology. That's it. If it's not one of those seven types, like, don't bring a mystery recommendation in here.

Ben: Right.

Channing: It's not happening.

Ben: Yeah. We're not interested in your novel. That's not what we're reading.

Channing: Right.

Ben: You know? And quite honestly, like it's not a book club for recommendations.

Channing: Right.

Ben: Yeah, it's a book club for people who, you know, don't maybe know what books to read to do these kinds of things or to improve in this area. And so it's literally just, this is what we have read or this is what we have gotten from these things. So let's talk about it. And here's how it benefited us. You know, and so, I mean, you know, yeah, I mean, unfortunately, it's harder to get people to, to do those kinds of improvements, but I think, you know, just being consistent, I think it'll eventually come around or just, you know, the medium will change.

Channing: And, you know, I think our book clubs right now just kind of more consist of date night than book club, you know, we just have a topic to talk about so we're not talking about the kids.

Ben: And sometimes there's other people. And so, but I think maybe, you know, by changing the medium in which that we're delivering the book club, I think may change some of the engagement. Um, so yeah, I mean, I think that we can,

Channing: It'll grow.

Ben: I just think that it'll grow differently than what, you know, maybe we originally thought.

Channing: So of the books that you've read recently, what's one that's made the biggest impact?

Ben: So The Richest Man in Babylon was great. And then the one that-

Channing: It's by George Classin.

Ben: And then the I just finished it today the prodigal God

Channing: the prodigal God by Timothy Keller. Yeah

Ben: I've heard that story I grew up hearing that story never hear the back half of it and then just having a different mindset and a different view of it completely Just kind of changes that gives you a whole different perspective So I think those two and those are two very short concise to the point.

Channing: Yeah, you know, I think you can finish both in a day

Ben: Yeah, I mean that's kind of a stretch unless you have five. I mean so to listen to it was five hours So one of them was two hours and one of them was three. Um But yeah, I mean totally doable.

Channing: Sorry. I didn't mean both in one day.

Ben: Oh, you can finish one book a day.

Channing: Yes

Ben: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, because they're both you know, each one was even physically reading it.

Channing: Yeah, like Prodigal God took me four hours It's gone in an afternoon.

Ben: Yeah

Channing: The Richest Man in Babylon, finished in four hours. I split that one over two days, but yeah, those are both great ones.

Ben: Yeah, what about you?

Channing: So Love Does Always, that's always gonna be one of my top. Bob Goff. One day I'll make it to Tom Sawyer's Island. That's his office. And I think I'm not done with it yet, but I'm really excited to finish rework by Jason Fried, I think is the author's name. Um, but it's been phenomenal so far. I'm only about halfway through.

Ben: Yeah.

Channing: Um, and I think the other one that made like a major impact and how I think about business structure is the E-Myth Revisited.

Ben: Yeah. That's classic.

Channing: Yeah, that was a really good one.

Ben: Yeah. It's been a year. It's been about two years since I've read that one, so I'm probably due for a refresh

Channing: Yeah, One that gave I think a big impact to both of us because I see I I think this is one of like the domino that kind of fell to let you jump from your nine to five was Power Your Profits by Susie Crader. And it literally breaks down how to make a business plan and how to structure your payments, like how you need to price yourself. It talks about how to goal cast and how to, it's, it's a really good book for anybody thinking about starting a business or within their first two years of business, and even if you've been in business a long time because even though most business plans you're not going to stick to, it's not about sticking to the business plan, in my opinion, and the author might have a completely different outtake on this, but a business plan is not there for you to stick to it. A business plan is there to show you possibilities and give you belief in yourself that you can accomplish it and then it's just doing every day the little tasks that need to be done that move that needle forward. But like, I don't like goals necessarily, right? Like I need to hit this by this, don't like it, not gonna do it. I have a goal, like I know what I want our revenue to be at next. Now my hope would be that soon, but I don't know if that could be two years. Because for me, when I put a timeline to it, I get desperate and I get pushy and I get manipulative just like every other human being, fight or flight. I'm not going to put us in a fight or flight situation because I want to run these companies in a specific way. But Power of Profits by Susie Crader, really awesome book.

Ben: Yeah, and I think that it's, you know, and mainly because we have, I know I've read a couple books on goal setting, and I think that what you learn from that, there's a big misunderstanding that, you know, every goal should have expiration. That's not true. I think that the goal can be to do, whether it's to lose a certain amount of weight, whether it's to hit revenue goals, whether that's to have a better marriage. How do you put a timeframe on, I want our marriage to be better?

Channing: Right.

Ben: What?

Channing: That's not a SMART goal.

Ben: Right. That's a setting yourself up to fail goal.

Channing: Right.

Ben: Work towards the direction of the outcome I want every day. You know, and that could be, I'm going to read one inspirational quote every day. My goal is to become an inspirational speaker, you know? And so, but I can't say like, I want to be on the stage in 12 months. But if I want to be an inspirational speaker, what am I going to do? I'm going to make one TikTok or one short form video every week for just 30 seconds just to start breaking them up, you know, and with the ambition to work up to stages.

Channing: Right. And so I think that those kind of goals, it's not even about like, well, I need to make sure they're realistic so I can hit them.

Ben: No, you need to make sure that they're doable with your schedule. Because I think that that's where a lot of people mess up is, you know, they set these lofty goals and there's really no way for you to accomplish those in reality in your

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