This engaging conversation with Sean Foley, one of the world's leading golf coaches, is not to be missed. Learn from the man who has trained legendary golfers like Tiger Woods and Justin Rose on how to unlock your potential. Throughout our talk, Sean reveals the importance of analyzing your game from a physical, mental, and emotional perspective. He also provides an enlightening look at the neuroscience behind his coaching techniques, which he has honed over many years of working with top-tier players.
Sean goes beyond the swing, discussing the lessons he learned from his mentors and the importance of authenticity in the industry. He opens up about his personal journey, shedding light on the resilience and adaptability that has led him to where he is today. We also delve into his revolutionary Pro Sender training tool, which has been a game-changer for both tour players and amateurs.
Finally, Sean offers invaluable insights into the power of a tailored approach to coaching. He shares his experiences in helping Justin Rose clinch the number one spot on the leaderboard and how understanding the brain's learning process can significantly enhance one's game. As a treat, Sean also talks about his upcoming trips to Toronto, San Diego, and Vegas to work with golfers and shoot content. Tune in for an inspiring chat with a true industry titan.
This engaging conversation with Sean Foley, one of the world's leading golf coaches, is not to be missed. Learn from the man who has trained legendary golfers like Tiger Woods and Justin Rose on how to unlock your potential. Throughout our talk, Sean reveals the importance of analyzing your game from a physical, mental, and emotional perspective. He also provides an enlightening look at the neuroscience behind his coaching techniques, which he has honed over many years of working with top-tier players.
Sean goes beyond the swing, discussing the lessons he learned from his mentors and the importance of authenticity in the industry. He opens up about his personal journey, shedding light on the resilience and adaptability that has led him to where he is today. We also delve into his revolutionary Pro Sender training tool, which has been a game-changer for both tour players and amateurs.
Finally, Sean offers invaluable insights into the power of a tailored approach to coaching. He shares his experiences in helping Justin Rose clinch the number one spot on the leaderboard and how understanding the brain's learning process can significantly enhance one's game. As a treat, Sean also talks about his upcoming trips to Toronto, San Diego, and Vegas to work with golfers and shoot content. Tune in for an inspiring chat with a true industry titan.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Making the Turn Golf podcast with the Duc and Double D, and today we are excited because we have a guest that is a hard man to track down because he's so busy and in such demand, and whether it be through his revolutionary training tool called the ProCinder, or whether it be the plethora of tour players, both men and women, that he's constantly working with, or college athletes, or young athletes, or just people in general, if there's somebody that needs help with their golf swing, there's nobody better than Sean Foley to help them kind of get back on the journey to finding their best golf again.
Speaker 1:So, as you heard, we're very, very fortunate to have the one and only Mr Sean Foley, who is really needs no introduction, but if you've been living under a rock or just came to golf recently, sean was one of the people that was fortunate enough to work with Mr Tiger Woods. I worked with one of my personal favorite golfers of all time. Justin Rose currently works with Ben On Cameron Champ, lydia Co and a host of other great players Sam Horsfeld, not to be left off the list, but just a plethora of great players. So, without further ado, because it doesn't really need to be said let's just go ahead and bring them on. Sean, how the heck are you this morning?
Speaker 2:Hey Michael, hi Dan, Good to be with you guys.
Speaker 1:Yes, Sean, Thanks for being here, man. We caught you on your way to the airport as usual, a man in demand. But one of the biggest reasons that we wanted to have you on, man, is like. I was driving in this morning to work thinking about this podcast and I was like, how do I want to start talking to Sean and I would be remiss if I didn't go ahead and show everybody this bad boy right here. And obviously the ProCinder has really caught fire and has done really, really well, not only with tour players but also amateur players, and I think that you guys have actually had a tough time meeting demand for this thing because it's so, it's just, it works very well for a lot of people. So, you know, is this the rebirth of Sean? Like, is this, is Sean version 763.7? Because it seems like, you know, there's a new look and we're doing the ProCinder thing and, like you seem more dedicated and more rigorous than ever. So what's going on, man? Is this the new Sean Foley?
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. I don't think there's. You know, there's just the evolution, and I think that you know, as you're starting out, Michael and I met at Memorial and, as Michael found out, I'm quite easy to talk to and you never know. You might walk for two days with me, and my favorite is when someone walks with me and then they go. Man, you're so down to earth, I'm like where else on my feet. You know what I'm saying. Like I teach golf.
Speaker 2:When I see guys in the golf community and in the coaching community get you know, so tender with one another, I'm like yo, this is not oncology. Okay, this is not like child education, this is teaching golf. So keep it, keep it chill, Leave your insecurity at the gate. No, I think it's just an evolution. I think that, you know, when I first got into teaching golf, I obviously enjoyed golf and I enjoyed the golf swing, but it was kind of more a function of survival, Because I didn't know what else I'd do. 10 semesters of academic probation, don't have employers knocking your door down. You know how hard it is actually, though, to do 10 semesters of academic probation without being kicked out. I mean, it's a pretty impressive feat.
Speaker 1:Took me eight years to get an undergraduate degree. Sean, You're talking to the right man here.
Speaker 2:You know what it wasn't like. I wasn't studying, I just wasn't studying what they wanted me to study. So absolutely not, which has benefited me a lot more at corporate outings with CEOs than what they wanted me to study. So you know, I did that and worked for John Jacobs golf schools initially and I enjoyed it. You know, like, as you know, I enjoy people and I like to. You know I like to inspire people. And then I like being right, I like solving problems, I like overcoming challenges. The thing I love about the PGA Tour and Tour players, but just golf in general, is just the difficulty and challenge of how hard it is to get somebody to improve and it's not improved within five minutes. You and I both help people where they've hit a shot and turned around and said, holy shit, but it's, you know, it's about laying protein around their pathways before they wake up in the morning and they just do that. So I think that I do really like discomfort and I like challenges. And then when I got on, when I moved to Florida with the intention of coaching tour players, I came to where they were or where they used to be. Now they're in Jupiter or West Palm, but Orlando was the hub and I had this kind of dream that I was going to do that. Then I did that and I was absolutely madly in love with the whole thing, the travel, you name it.
Speaker 2:2013 rolls around. Tigers had a great year, justin Rose had a great year, hunter Mayans had a great year, lee Westwoods had a great year. And here I am with absolutely a banner year and a dream year, but I can't be present with my own family and my own house, and so that's not what I'm after. So you know, to me, I think, when I was younger, I was very Western in my, in my thinking as it relates to achievement, accomplishment, worldly rewards, kick ass, be the best, and that really drove me. But then it got to the point that I realized that that was all an illusion. So, 2013 to 15, I'm kind of in no man's land, trying to be, trying to be, you know, a great husband, a great dad and a great coach. So when I'm on the road, I want to be at home, and then, when I'm at home, I want to be on the road. So I'm never anywhere, I'm never where I'm at, and that's not a good place to be, obviously. So then I kind of had to sit down and redefine to myself. Okay, and I think by this point, I think by this point, the only two left are Hunter and Rosie, and Hunter's on his way out. So then I just defined okay, why do you do this? What's the purpose behind?
Speaker 2:I kind of reread the first chapter of Man's Search for Meaning. I think I've probably reread that chapter about a hundred times. It continuously brings me back to meaning and purpose. But the meaning and purpose of a 20-year-old on the PGA tour might be much different than when that 20-year-old is 40 years of age and that 20-year-old has already done everything, supported himself, and then, at 40, he opens an oncology unit for children. Things change.
Speaker 2:You go from being self-centered which there's nothing wrong with that, I don't know. It's like saying that we have to remember that 90% of our brain is identical to a chimp brain. So if we're acting in ways of the animal kingdom, which is survival and adaptation, that's fine. That's what we are. Now we have 10% that allows us to think about morality and right and wrong and God and all that. But when push comes to shove, it's incredible to see what human beings are capable of and it's quite animalistic. And so I redefine that.
Speaker 2:Okay, I enjoy learning, I enjoy inspiring people and I like being correct. So those are the three reasons that I'll ultimately do it Now. I think liking to be correct was just more a manifestation that came from kind of, I think, insecurity more than anything. So because I wasn't a good athlete, because I wasn't a tall guy, because I had all these holdups about myself, if I could intellectually bully someone then I felt fine. So that kind of overreaches more. So that's probably left me by now into I love the game, I love myself, I love my players, I love the challenge and I enjoy inspiring people. And then I enjoy the client.
Speaker 2:The funny thing is I've been to the summit a few times with players and it's just not really the place for me. I kind of like being stuck in a blizzard, like at 20,000 feet on Everest, not knowing when it's going to end. I just think that there's so much vitality there for me and excitement, and that's what I've kind of enjoyed. Michael the last couple of years is taking players like Ben and Michael, kim and Lydia, who kind of lost their game and helped them build it back, and what I look at it is. It's a different when you're at your golf academy and people are coming in they're learning the game. It's very much instruction. So at that point they're going to climb Everest and you're getting their legs ready.
Speaker 2:So what can I do? If I'm going to climb Everest, I can get stronger, get my cardio up. I can train at elevation. When I go there, I can make sure I have a great Sherpa. I can make sure that everything I need for the climb is great my boots, my gloves. I got the best of the best. But after that it's trusting the Sherpa and I think once you get with a tour player, that's what you're doing. I mean you get a 30, you get a 28-year-old Michael Kim I mean there's been a lot of reps in there and I think that's probably the thing, michael, that I've spent two years now studying neuroscience and working with consultants. And the funny thing is this is the last thing I've kind of learned, and it should have been the first thing that I learned. I mean, go figure, eh.
Speaker 1:Every time I go and read something new or learn something new, man, I feel the exact same way. I want to get this and I want to give them credit, but very rolls. I remember being at the Biveswing Dynamic Summit in 2019, and I was really new man. I was still an early golfing machine guy, barely had a track man, just didn't really understand the body very much at all. And Terry said the more I learn, the less I know. And that's kind of a true statement for what you just said there. And it's true, man, because it does seem like all these things that we continually learn, man, it would have been nice to know those from the jump.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just think that, like you know, if we were going to run, if we were going to start an academy that raised great teachers, I think neuroscience has to be in the first year. And it's not neuroscience, it's not heavy, I don't know much about it, but I kind of understand how we learn, what's the process of how we learn? Why do we detect fear everywhere we go? And these are things that are more helpful. Like it really helps the player to realize that when he gets freaked out all the time on the golf course, he's not, he just has a mesocortex that's been detecting threats for 400,000 years. And it's amazing when they learn that they're less ashamed, they're less guilty, but they also realize that 98% of what they're afraid of is just perceived as not accurate. And so when people understand that that fear is false, evidence that appears real and I obviously didn't create that acronym, but I love that acronym False evidence that appears real.
Speaker 2:Our brain is literally a threat detection center. Its whole goal for our life is that we survive, not that we thrive. And so I think, as you look at that, then you recognize neuro pathways and you recognize how thoughts travel through the whole system out into the golf club. You're really careful on kind of you know what you look to change or grow. And you look at guys and you're like man, that guy's been like that for 15 years. I mean, let's remember, dude, that social media is a place where the video that we see is the 100th video. It's normally in slow motion and there's no way that person could do that on the first team. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I think that that's kind of the evolution is to now is that I got to a point there, after Justin Rose got to number one After 15, when I kind of reorganized myself. I made Rosie like the center of the universe as a relate to my career, because he told me look, I'm going for number one and I'm not stopping till I get there and I want you to be with me. And we went and we didn't stop and we worked really, really hard. We were structured, we were efficient and we worked and we worked and we worked and we worked and we worked and then you gave Justin Rose the nicest compliment I've ever heard a coach give a player.
Speaker 1:I can't remember where it was, but you said when you watched Justin Rose practice you would think that the guy had never won anything in his entire life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know who's like that, even more so. He's a member where I'm a member at our Steve Stricker. Steve Stricker practice is from eight till eight and he's a DJ, yeah, well, yeah, vj has been a whole different psycho category of hitting drivers out of the fairway bunkers for 10 hours in 100 degrees. So VJ is my boy, but the big man's not. He's definitely not right, but Stricker, it's like you know you wouldn't go up to him on the range and be like you need to borrow 20 bucks. Like man, you just hit 700 balls and you just want to say hey, I'm a router cup captain, you know who I'm taking. I got Stricker on my team, by the way that was a no brainer pick to me.
Speaker 2:Okay, he's a great player, he's forget about it. I mean, he's arguably, in the last 20 years, one of the greatest players in the world, and that's starting in his 40s. So I think that once Rosie got to number one and then we kind of had a fall off, but for no real reason. I mean, he's my boy, I text him every single day last week, that's my guy. And then the pandemic kind of hit. I actually had Danny Willett during that time too, and we kind of came back to a good place where he was playing great on that fall apart. And then the Rosie thing just kind of once we got to the top, it was like there was almost nothing left to do between one another. That's why what ensues is still a deep friendship or brotherhood, because that'll never change.
Speaker 2:And then the pandemic hit. And then Lydia co called me and we worked for two years and then, when she got to number one, she moved to San Fran. So we parted ways after she got to number one and then I remember just sitting there and going, okay, like I've helped three players get to number one in the world and within that happening within two months, these relationships have dissolved, I'm probably going to be 0 for 4. So I've got to this point in my career, putting everyone ahead of myself, and now, from here till the end, I'm going to put myself and my business ahead of my players, and that's what the evolution comes from. Michael, as you look at the pro sender, remember, my first swing coach is Greg McCatt, who's pretty much at the top of the hierarchy of the golfing machine. So this might be the first thing I ever learned, so like at 11 years old, like doing this and doing this and hitting tires and shaking hands like this and opening my hips. So I never really veered far from accumulators my whole time in golf instruction and I've been really lucky to have friends who are ahead of the curve as it relates to ground forces.
Speaker 2:I met Scotland in 2007, actually got Scott the job with swing catalyst, the Craig Davies, all those guys in Kairos, and physios and osteos people like Phil Cheatham. So that was always kind of something I didn't really discuss much with people is that I'd been consulting people like Sasha over a decade. So all that's very important to me, so to put yourself around people who are smarter than you at what they know, and I think that what happens sometimes with the modern golf teacher is there's a real stressful aspect to wanting to understand 3D and force plates and trackman and so then you understand 10% of all of it and then you just sound good and absolutely destroy golf swings. So I'm kind of part of responsible for that whole generation, but I wasn't learning it myself. If I wanted to get force plate stuff done, I would just send them to Scott. If I wanted to get 3D done, I send them to Mark Bull.
Speaker 1:I want to be really fair to something though, sean If you're going to take credit for some of that, I continually post to Instagram and YouTube and am definitely guilty of a lot of the same things, so we all have to be responsible here. But, at the end of the day, one thing that I want to make really clear is that I kind of look at what David Ledbetter did in terms of creating an industry for us. When it comes to creating this team atmosphere. Okay, when it comes to putting your ego aside and going, I'm going to get an expert in here and we're both going to learn from this expert together, and we're all going to be better for it.
Speaker 1:I truly do believe that you were one of the first coaches to really put the ego aside and kind of give us including myself like this blueprint for hey, get smart people on the team. Luckily, my assistant is an actual biomarkerist with a master's degree from Auburn, so obviously a very smart young man. But you're the one that kind of laid that template out that it's okay not to always have the answer, but to know where to go and get the answer, and then, when you find it, put that guy on the payroll, so you always have him around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. To me it just took the you got to be able to. You see that corporations right, you put people, you don't put sales guys in marketing, you don't put executives in research and development. So I'll sum myself as the overall kind of manager of the team. And so I have a player who isn't putting.
Speaker 2:Well, he's kind of seen a lot of putting coaches and that's not really fixed it. So then we go to a neuroscientist and while he's putting, we get a brain scan. Why not? Neuroscientist says wow, man, your thoughts are everywhere. You're never present over a putt.
Speaker 2:And so now, all of a sudden, it starts to leave clues, because we've been to these guys who are all great putting coaches, they are knowledgeable, they know how to set up practice, and we just have a player who continues to hit the ball, hit the hole more than anyone and make less putts. This isn't a yippy problem. This is hitting the hole, making no putts. Okay, so there's got to be a solution. Right, like every problem on the planet is, just some is a solution that we haven't found yet. So to me, you know, I can't sleep trying to figure out how can I help this guy. And it's not going to be on the putting green. Obviously right Is what is going on? How come he cannot have access to his subconscious while he's over putts and he goes and does that and you know we'll see eventually over time how well it works. But it ain't, it's not a mental thing. It ain't mental, I don't I, and I think that that word is just.
Speaker 1:I agree 100%, thank you.
Speaker 2:That word is so overused. Look, mental is to me, mental is PTSD, mental is multiple personality disorder, mental is schizophrenia, that's mental, okay, mental is not the fact that you feel pressure over a six foot putt. That's just not it to me. And I think that problem with golf is there's a lot of co-dependence in golf. So you know, regardless of the trauma that you had as a kid which we all did and I would say overachievers probably had the right amount I'm not quite sure how to define that, but they had to go through it to get to it I don't think it matters that much if I know how to get into alpha theta for 50 seconds at a time and be present. And so when they measure, you know with the brain waves, when they measure alpha theta, gamma, beta, delta literally can show this is someone in love. Oh look, they're in alpha at a super low frequency. Here's someone who's in absolute anger right now. They're off the charts in gamma in frequency. So when someone's actually present at between 5 and 15 hertz, they're in alpha theta. That's been measured. It doesn't need to be. So how do you become present? We're always present, it's just. It's just our thoughts that take us out of it. So how can I readjust to be back to here and be here right now? It's just, I'm just focused on it, that's it. There's nothing else going on, and then it's a. It's a, it's a train thing. So I get these young players now.
Speaker 2:I never used to do this in the past and meditation is part of our program because there's just too much. It's not about being a Buddhist. There's just too much data on the importance of it, just the pure importance of it, and something I've always done myself. But that was, I mean, trust me, when I was doing that as a kid. It wasn't, I definitely wasn't perceived as being cool for doing it. It wasn't a cool thing, so to speak. And so, yeah, the ProSender is, you know, is a is a tool that really helps people and it also drives a solid business model, which is this is a business right, because I didn't do anything like this for 20 years. My buddy was like man, are you selling out? And I was like, how am I selling out when I'm helping people have better wrist angles?
Speaker 1:I think this is the real Sean that I've met. This is the most real Sean I've ever met. I love this, Sean. This is you selling out. You should have sold out years ago, brother. Good for you.
Speaker 3:Sean, could I ask you? You take your information from an enormous landscape of sources. You know you pull on teachings or insight from all sorts of areas to inform what you do. You know what are you looking at now? It sounds like neuroscience, as you said earlier, is the thing you would love to have started with. You know to almost have that as the foundation point. Would it be fair to say that's the thing that you think is going to be the most important over the next three years, or is there something else that you're looking at that you think you know what? This hasn't broken the surface yet, but this is going to be a needle mover within golf, within performance, you know, over the next three years, as somebody, as I said, who takes their information and insights from so many different sources.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know, I think it'll take this long to. I think it'll take quite a while to be able to make this useful, to make it, I think it'll take. I mean, the fact is, I've spoke to these people who are, you know, they're excellent at what they do and they literally say, look, we understand 10% of how this thing works, you know, but 10% is better than what I have. But it's kind of always been like this, like one of my first tattoos damn, because you were in Jamaica is lyrics to redemption song Right, right.
Speaker 2:So emancipate yourself from mental slavery. Numb, but ourselves can free our mind. When I finally put that there, I understood like, oh my God, my whole life. I thought it was outside of me but I've literally shackled myself to the confines of my own mind. So I feel much more now as a coach, as like just a peer mentor, and you know I have a lot of young men that I'm coaching and young women, and you know I've kind of made every cardinal sin that you can make as a coach.
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't, I think I'm literally almost out of mistakes at this point. I still can't tell you exactly what's right, but I'm completely sold on what's wrong, and so how the relationship with the player works is, if you know what's wrong, that's already a good place to start, cause potentially when they come to see you, they're doing some things wrong. A lot of that can be conceptual. So once you change their, there's low hanging fruit and then there's the fruit at the top of the tree Right. So there's the short term picture and the big term picture.
Speaker 2:So the short term picture with the young player like my lefty, garret Higo, is that you know he, when he stood, he had a lot of extensions, his lower back and his feet were almost pigeoned in.
Speaker 2:So he's starting to have knee issues and lower left side issues in his back. So as soon as we got his feet flared out slightly, which is pretty natural for how you human being stand, the problem with when we look at, when we look at the pelvis and the golf swing, we look at the hips and stuff, but we don't really look at the bones, and I think bones are from what I've learned from my friends, it's really important as it relates to creating torque and force obviously cause muscles are, are inserted to that. So getting his feet like that and then getting him to be in more flexion with literally within and then trying to get him to where he has more loft in the takeaway, cause he kind of got the club in and shut. He's tricky cause he's the left handed golfer, is a right handed guy and his left hand is his left hand is quite like.
Speaker 3:I was always told, sean, that it was, that was a great combination. I mean, maybe that's really outdated thinking, but I was always told that was a great combo to play, to have a stronger hand, almost opposite the way you play the game. But is there any?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and, and you know I was also told that. You know that. You know I also read somewhere as a kid that it was liberty and justice for all right. So what the thing to me is like, for a right like that would give me the ability to pull, okay, and and I could. You know I can pull, but I also have to push right. So if my, if my heels and toes are creating couple forces, then my hands are too, and if I'm all pulled with no push, I'm probably going to be steep and across it and shallowing with side bend.
Speaker 2:So with with the player like Eric, we get loft on the club and keep the club in front of him and get his feet flared and he starts to hit it better right away. Well, that he should have hit it better. That the problem with muscle memory that we have to be careful of is like there's a lot of people out there who are paralyzed, so muscle memory as a theory is a bit. My point is is that how come? You know how come vets who have lost a limb at war still have steering pain in their foot even though they don't have a foot for like up to a year after they lose their foot right, it's because the memory is, it's all here. So the person who's paralyzed still thinks of walking. It's just that neuron is traveling through the central nervous system. It just doesn't get past the point where there's a fracture to the and where the spinal cord is severed. Period, that's it for today. He might have to stand on the tee and go. Man, this club feels really out here and really open. But if he knows that, if he does that when he hits it it goes where he wants to, then he just has to be good at being discomfort, like having discomfort, and I think that you know that's important.
Speaker 2:Like, a big thing I've been thinking about lately is, you know, is challenging really, how we train, because we have to remember, right, that I'm going to sit there on the range and I really prefer how I do things. I really prefer what I like to talk about. I really prefer this, this and that. Well, in most cases that player is not there to listen to me talk about what I prefer. I have to, you know, I have to tailor, make a suit to them, so the wool that I'm going to use is going to be the finest quality, but the suit always going to look different because if you, michael and I get suited, the suit could be the same, but everyone's going to think it's a different suit because it looks different and it's still the same dynamic in the sense that it's still very fine. Marina wool, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:So I think that over time you know if, if I was to simplify everything and say, when someone comes to me, when you finish a round of golf, whether you're in the southwest of England or whether you're up in Ohio or whether you're in Florida, no one asked you where you were at P5. No one asked you if you shallowed the club. People simply asked you what did you shoot? Right, that's it. So when I start a lesson with someone or I'm working with someone, there's the big picture of like.
Speaker 2:We can manifest this pattern over five of six years of really passionate and mundane work. Just dotting eyes crossing T's. Dotting eyes crossing T's right, you can write a beautiful paragraph, but if the grammar is not good, it's not going to read very well. Even though it could be from you know, it could be from Poe or Elliott or Kipling. If you don't get the commas in the right place and all that, it's not going to read very well, so that those are the mechanics of writing. Now, most everyone can learn to do that. Now, not everyone can learn to think like Kipling or these types of individuals, but you get my point.
Speaker 2:So, as it comes into golf, it's the same kind of ideas is how do I get Ben on to get the face more squared, impact and get the angle of attack less steep? That's all I care about for Ben. Okay, having less loft and having less attack angle. That's what we work on, and doing so as we worked on the club face and then we worked on the right arm. I work on the right arm. I don't really think about the lead arm very much, to be honest with you, depending if that person needs it or not.
Speaker 2:But Ben is also right handed golfer, left handed person. So Ben's very good at this and there's nothing wrong with this. I'm just saying that that also needs that. They can't both be doing that, because then you're in big trouble, right? So you know, in two years Ben's gone from 172 to 185 balls feet on the golf course and people like how'd you do it? And I'm like I just showed him what was already inside of him, like because you're not going to see me, market, come to me and I'll get you 13 miles an hour ball speed. Basically, ben was hitting it. Ben was hitting it really weak. I didn't do anything to him to make him faster, except put in the right principles that over time they really really helped us. So Ben's misses still high, right. It still spins like a thousand over what it should and it probably always will, right?
Speaker 2:So when guys say you know, oh, that was my old swing, I was like no, that's your swing. So when you talk to the neuroscientist he goes yeah, you know. When they say they're like their old swing or their old movement pattern, he goes remember, you're always running from that 15 year old kid. So the 15 year old kid who got stuck underneath them and slid and jumped and flipped it and when he was 15, that was a five yard draw. When he was 25, it was a 40 yard snap hook. You're always working against that kid Like that is. That is in the DNA, that is just weaved in there, right? I'll give you an example.
Speaker 2:So I was working with this player one time I won't name names and he just looked to me like he needed way more linear in both directions. He needed to get right more. He needed to get left more. He needed to stand up faster. He needed to do all these things that are really uncool. Michael and we're doing it and he's hitting it so much better, but he's fascinated with keeping his elbow bent and rotating, which I just think is there's not been many boxers who succeeded by keeping their arm bent when they hit somebody. There's not been many pitchers who succeeded in keeping their arm bent as they threw the ball Right, so I think this arm has to get pretty long. I just I agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. I'm just saying I don't know a lot, but my friends call me crazy, but your right arm starts relatively straight when you set up to it, so like this idea that we want to shorten the lever by bending it a bunch doesn't make a ton of sense to me either, sean.
Speaker 2:Like I said, dude, I'm not that smart, but my friends are super smart and then I'm just better at talking than they are. So, basically, like I think these are all important things. Like if I, if I straightened my left arm with a club in my hand and try to hit balls with my arms straight, you should see it All I can do is top it and shank it. When I bend that thing and I let it straight and I can really move it. Now, when this gets too bent, I just top it and shank it. When it gets straight, I can really move it. So the interesting thing is, when I'm doing left arm, you'll see a little more linear and you'll see me kind of pop out of it with the body too. And then when I go right hand, you just see my right hand wide with a hell of a lot more rotation from my body. So it's it's quite interesting when you do that with somebody.
Speaker 2:Think about the idea that we want the left arm straight and the right arm on the rib cage. If you hit balls individually with those hands, you would not do that. So you know that that's kind of where I've been. Like I think my wife would even say like she hasn't seen me this content in a while, because I'm making my own schedule, like I'm leaving today to go to Toronto to do an outing for Microsoft tomorrow, and then I'm flying to San Diego to do the same thing there, and then on Sunday David Woods and I are shooting a ton of content. I've already seen all my guys that I worked with in the last couple of weeks, so now I'm not going to go to Vegas, and I think that that's kind of the key. You know, I love it, man.
Speaker 3:John Kalajski yeah.
Speaker 3:Sorry sorry to just just what you were saying about you know over the last few topics. I mean, you talked about being a Sherpa to the golfers you work with and you talked about, you know, being a mentor. I'm really interested in who has been the most impactful, who have been the most impactful mentors to you, not only in your professional life, but in the sort of balance that you talk about achieving now in your life, where you are, in your own words, more content than you've ever been. So who are those who have the key mentors been for you?
Speaker 2:Well, obviously, my dad, my dad's a pretty impressive guy, you know. He grew up in abject poverty in Glasgow, moved to Canada in 67. And just as a fantastic, just just a fantastic man, period, like you know, when my, when my dad passes, there's going to be speakers in the parking lot next door, right, Like this is a quality human being, like lovely guy. So I mean, look, the moment of conception almost is like 90% of where your life's going to go right. And so I was really fortunate to be born to them and I can't wait to see them today because they're now my dad's 84, my mom's 80. But I think, I think the universe is going to curse me with my mother until she's about 120. My mom still to this day sees me on TV and text me and says, are you eating? And it's like, mom, I'm 50 years old, I don't worry, I promise you all. But just, I think in our mom's eyes we're about this big, all of us, you know all of us Golf wise, greg McCatten in Canada, ben Kern and Jack McLaughlin, who were kind of, you could kind of say they're the Bob Ford of Canadian golf, the Dave Podis of Canadian golf, so directors of golf who could play, instruct, run a pro shop, run a business.
Speaker 2:Those guys were big time mentors of mine. I'd say, on the road, butch Harman's been the person who kind of took me under his wing as it related not to the golf swing but to the thing to like, to the zoo. You know where zoologists right, our species are pro golfers, so trying to understand that species. And then you know Mark Bull, scott Lynn, craig Davies, george Gankes, kevin Duff, I mean it goes. I mean who's not really who's, who's not been someone that, andy plumber, I've been influenced by, by everyone you know, so I think it's. Everyone thought that I was just this guy who could, you know, talk his way into the White House without a credential, and I have players on the ass and give them motivational speeches. I've been on my P's and Q's for a long time. I just never have.
Speaker 1:There's one thing I want to point out there, sean. I told Dan before we started this I've heard things you know we all do, and it's really hard to be the person you present yourself to be. But one thing that I would like to really share about you is that I have watched you from afar for you know, the past several years and I'm at a fair amount of events, and one thing that I always think is the classiest thing that you do, sean, is that every single person you see on that driving range, you know who they are. You shake their hand, you give them 30 seconds, 45 seconds, 15, whatever, whatever they need. Man Like you are always the guy out there who is like super upbeat, super positive and I got to be honest man like Justin Rose is my favorite player of all time because I consider him to be a true sportsman.
Speaker 3:And the definition of that word.
Speaker 1:Like he's just a super classy grinder and I was mega excited to see what he was able to accomplish at 43 at this year's Ryder Cup. But like you don't operate, sean, with those types of people with that kind of intensity. Tiger Woods, justin Rose, lydia Co those are warriors and what you've talked about today is like you have to be a warrior yourself to be in that crowd, because those people aren't going to put up with people who can't get it done and can only talk and can't do. So I think that you really have earned every step of the way and I applaud you, sean, because you've certainly been somebody that I've looked up to and you definitely have put out the blueprint for people like me in this, in this industry. So thank you.
Speaker 2:And the thing is, michael, like that means everything to me, like that really does. But the thing is we didn't. What I'm trying to get younger coaches to understand is we didn't do this on purpose. This was just about like, okay, we're super curious, now think about society, right, I don't know what it is in the UK, but probably the same. But one of the things growing up is curiosity kills the cat and no. So that's a great thing if you want to create generations of robots, of people who just, you know, just tote the line and democracy, that's a whole other podcast we can have on that. But curiosity is about what it is.
Speaker 2:And then, obviously, you know, then I had these two sons and they're born and then I got to support them and you know we're trying to think of okay, I held off on social media until, basically, I think it was the end of the quarantine. I'd never done it and I can see now that I probably should have. But you can do it in a way that's also like, you know, where there's integrity. But it's a great business tool, an unbelievable business tool, as long as it's authentic for me, anyways, as long as authentic and other people do their thing. Look, if you're doing this and you're working hard, I'm your biggest fan.
Speaker 1:Like Coach Prime says, don't let my confidence affect yours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know who said Denzel said something really cool when he won the Oscar. They said what do you have to say to your critics now? And he said you know, I don't really have anything to say. And then they said well, anything? And he said you know, I'm sorry that my angels agitated your demons, right? So I learned a long time ago that I learned a long time ago that that if I have an issue with someone, you know, I'll just teach him. My son the other day he was pissed off about something and I.
Speaker 2:This was the old Wayne Dyer thing that Wayne used to talk about, where Wayne said when you squeeze an orange, what comes out? And everyone in the audience said orange juice. He said why? And they said that's because that's what's inside of it. And so when golf, society, politics, religion, whatever, whenever you get squeezed like you're the orange. Now, whenever you get squeezed, you know it can feel like the metaphor is not the same, because it could feel like I feel like this because of that person and that person. When I'm with them, it makes you feel that way, but all that's really doing is showing you is, when they squeeze you at showing what's inside of you. So that's what I really enjoy about the difficulty of life. It kind of gives me a way better understanding of where I'm at versus the speech that I give on that exact thing, and so the nice thing to note is that the world can't squeeze me, and somehow my 15 and 12 year old still squeeze the shit out of me and I still think it's their fault. I love it man.
Speaker 3:That is Sean. That is Sean. Can I ask you something, sean? This might be a really binary question and we've covered so much ground. It's fascinating, but how do you measure success?
Speaker 2:Well, that you know what I think that changes, right, you know, and for you, dan, you could say the same thing in your life, right? And so I'm 49. Sure, I think at one point it was you know, at one point it was a lot of you know, it was monetary, it was getting, you know, getting awards, it was being known, it was all that. And then I think over time it starts to change as life kind of shows itself to you or you start to understand it for what it's always been. And I think now, like, the idea of success to me is that when I lay down at night I fall asleep quickly and when I wake up I'm really excited about going out and doing what I do.
Speaker 2:I think that's it, because I think if you've done all the other stuff and you know that Nervon is not going to come from more of any of it, you know. So we have to be able to recognize like these trajectories where we go from being self-centered to then going in service to others, when we go into worldly rewards, to this attachment from all of it. So I feel like there's there's kind of this first wave of like this Western mentality and then where that wave starts to go into decline. So where the intelligence is not fluid anymore, it's more crystal, it's more wisdom than knowledge. Then that next trajectory is a little bit more eastern, and I stole that from Arthur Brooks in the book Strength to Strength, which is fantastic.
Speaker 1:That's great man and that's you know.
Speaker 2:I wish I came up with any of this. I wish any of this was original, but I've just been really lucky to. I've been really lucky to be in some material You've got to get a source of material. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, so we're out of time, unfortunately with Sean and Sean I have to ask really really quick. I've been privy to see a couple of things from some of these tour players. That really blows my mind and I have a question really quick before we get you out of here but what is the most athletic thing that you have ever seen Mr Woods do that wasn't related to golf or on a golf course?
Speaker 2:Not really, because he was pretty banged up when we started. So he's really good at call of duty, yeah, but the most athletic thing I've ever seen in my whole life was Cameron Champ hitting five iron over in a fairway bunker in Vegas over a fairly high lip, and you know his. You know his impact conditions over a high lip from two, 35 to two feet.
Speaker 1:That's impressive yeah.
Speaker 2:Cameron, for the rest of your life, you know, if you ever intend to practice again. If you do intend to practice, what you should do is just get in the fairway bunker with a high lip and hit 100 balls a day and you won't ever have to hear a word from me. You should have. You should have seen this video. I mean the reason I took the videos, because I wanted to see a knife it right into the middle of the mound. And then this thing came out and it went up and I you know, it didn't matter that there was little kids around I couldn't even avoid saying like Holy, and this ball took off and I'm watching it and I'm like there's no way that's covering it and it covered to like this. And I just was like and he goes, that was good. Hey, I'm like do you have?
Speaker 1:it. That sounds about right for Cam so once again. Yeah, thank you so much, Sean, it's been great. We really appreciated the time it's been wonderful.
Speaker 2:For sure We'll do it again.
Speaker 1:For sure and for any of our listeners who, like I said, don't don't know if Sean, like he said, he is somewhat newer to social media in the past few years. But Sean fully performance golf you can find him on social media does a great job. The pro sender an amazing training tool. Even if you're not a world class golf coach. This is something that you can use. Along with the videos that he's put together with David Woods. It's an amazing tool. And for all the neuroscience geeks out there that want to start looking at some of that, a couple great places you can start With. That would be the focus band is a great place. You can kind of start getting some information as well as doing some breath work through meditation and using a product like the neuro peak pro. So Sean has definitely given us all a blueprint to get better at golf and now, once again, it's up to us to do the work with the information that we've gained. So thanks again to Mr Double D, to Mr Sean Foley, and until next time, keep riding.