Football clubs often represents different identities: local, political, ethnic and sectarian. Deportivo Palestino, a football club in Chile, is distinct in the way its representation of Palestinian identity. In this episode, co-hosts Guy and Francesco speak to Siri Schwabe, associate professor of Anthropology at University of Copenhagen, and Jose Nabzo, press and media officer at Deportivo Palestino and life-long club supporter.
Siri explains the origin of the club and reflects on her experience of attending Palestino matches. Jose describes how Deportivo Palestino has served as a point of reference of the Palestinian community in Chile as well as serving as a symbol of Palestinian identity in both Chile and the wider world.
Siri's academic article on Deporte Palestino [behind the paywall] is available here.
Football clubs often represents different identities: local, political, ethnic and sectarian. Deportivo Palestino, a football club in Chile, is distinct in the way its representation of Palestinian identity. In this episode, co-hosts Guy and Francesco speak to Siri Schwabe, associate professor of Anthropology at University of Copenhagen, and Jose Nabzo, press and media officer at Deportivo Palestino and life-long club supporter.
Siri explains the origin of the club and reflects on her experience of attending Palestino matches. Jose describes how Deportivo Palestino has served as a point of reference of the Palestinian community in Chile as well as serving as a symbol of Palestinian identity in both Chile and the wider world.
Siri's academic article on Deporte Palestino [behind the paywall] is available here.
'More than a club, a whole people.' Deporte Palestino ft. Jose Nazbo and Siri Schwabe
Francesco Belcastro 00:09
Hello and welcome to a new episode of the FootPol podcast, the podcast where football meets politics. I'm one of your co-hosts Dr Francesco Belastro and here with me is my other co-host, Dr Guy Burton. Hello Guy, how are you?
Guy Burton 00:20
I'm good, thanks. How are you doing today, Francesco?
Francesco Belcastro 00:23
I'm all right. I'm all right. I've, we've got a very interesting topic today and two excellent speakers. So I'm, I'm looking forward to this.
Guy Burton 00:30
Well, tell me a bit about it, because, you know, yeah.
Francesco Belcastro 00:34
We're focusing on a specific football club today. We're talking about Club Deportivo, Palestino. But like, as, which I know you have experienced in the stadium, havben't you?
Guy Burton 00:44
Yeah, yeah, well, when I was... God it was when I was doing my PhD and I did my fieldwork in Chile. So I went to Santiago and obviously I wanted to watch football, so I went to the National Stadium and and Palestino was the team I saw. I think they were playing La Catolica, which is the Catholic University, but I don't remember the score. If any really interested listeners want to know go check it out, you know, go check the scores on Transfer Market or whatever. Was it like July or August 2007?
Guy Burton 01:09
But yeah, definitely remember the teams definitely remember the colors.
Francesco Belcastro 01:12
That's great. Yeah, so this is really, really like like our guests will explain much better than me. It, is really unique club. It's a club, a Chilean league club, premier division that represents the Palestinian community was founded by Palestinian migrants and became a sort of icon of Palestinian-ness that's not only in Chile and only in Latin America, but around the world.
Francesco Belcastro 01:37
There was a couple of days ago, it was a demonstrations in London and on the Gaza issue. And several people were wearing Palestino jerseys as support to Palestinian identity.
Guy Burton 01:53
Yes, and I suppose it's probably just worth saying at this point as well, Francesco, that obviously we did an episode on the impact of Israel's war in Gaza a couple of weeks ago. I mean, I know this isn't exactly the – but there's a bit of an overlap in terms of what we're going to be talking about in terms of the Gaza war and how that's being understood and sort of refracted through Palestino, right?
Francesco Belcastro 02:14
Yeah, and unfortunately, both the episodes have been we record them while the genocide is taking place in Gaza. So I think there's even more important to talk about Palestinian identity while someone while Israel is trying to delete it as much as what we are seeing in the news at the moment.
Francesco Belcastro 02:34
OK, so we are both very passionate about the topic, so we gave listeners a bit of a bit of an introduction. Now, let's introduce our our two speakers. We got two excellent guests. We've got our first guest that we're going to be interviewing first is Siri Schwabe.
Francesco Belcastro 02:54
Now Siri is a Associate Professor at the SAO Institute at the University of Copenhagen. And she works in the in the ethnology section. However, she is an anthropologist that looked at different areas.
Francesco Belcastro 03:11
Urban studies, space and luckily for us, she has also looked at at football and Club Deportivo Palestino specifically. So we're going to be talking to Siri. She's going to give us an introduction. And then we're going to talk to and explain a bit the meaning of the club, why this club so unique.
Francesco Belcastro 03:31
And then after that, we're going to be talking to Jose Nazbo. Now Jose is the Jefe de Prenza, the club chief communication chief, the media person and communication person for the club for Deportivo Palestino, and he's also a Palestino football fan.
Francesco Belcastro 03:48
And so it's going to we're going to we're going to hear it from someone who is involved with the club, who works for the club, but also grew up as a Palestino fan. So, yeah, it's going to be interesting.
Francesco Belcastro 03:59
And I think we can we can now greet Siri. Hello, Siri. How are you?
Siri Schwabe 04:06
Hi, I'm very good. How are you?
Francesco Belcastro 04:08
Good. Thanks. Thanks for joining us. So you have been studying and researching and attending Palestino matches.
Francesco Belcastro 04:16
So can you tell us a bit about this club? What is Deportivo Palestino?
Siri Schwabe 04:21
Deportivo Palestino is a first division professional football club. Its existence goes back over 100 years now, actually, officially back to 1920. So it's a fairly old club in the context. And it was founded by Palestinians, Palestinian immigrants in Chile.
Siri Schwabe 04:45
Now it's become sort of it's opened up a lot. And of course, it's part simply of the sort of Chilean context in a wider sense. It's largely Chilean, some Argentinian players that the club features and it's on its team.
Siri Schwabe 05:08
I would say also that its beginnings kind of come from a period of time where Palestinian immigration to Chile had been happening already over the course of some decades, increasing around that time as well.
Siri Schwabe 05:23
But this was a time where sort of several different specifically Palestinian institutions were springing up in Santiago and elsewhere. So there was part of kind of a it was very linked to the community, the Palestinian community specifically, because there had been sort of Arab organizations previously.
Siri Schwabe 05:46
But this was really sort of the Palestinian community as well, coming in into its own. And the football club and the football team here became became a big part of that process. So you could say it's been sort of it's been a Palestinian team from the beginning.
Siri Schwabe 06:00
I mean, it's in the name, it's in it's in the very foundation of the club from the very, very beginning. And now, of course, it's a club that both have, you know, they have supporters from all over the world are known as this sort of diaspora Palestinian team.
Siri Schwabe 06:17
And of course, then they're also sort of part of the football environment in Chile. And they have lots of local supporters who simply support them, you know, as locals. But knowing very well the history and the implications of this being a Palestinian team.
Siri Schwabe 06:32
Because as as you might know, I'm sure you do. The team and the club is also very open about its affiliation to not only Palestine and the history of Palestinian migration to Chile, but also the current sort of Palestinian struggle, if you will, the struggle to nationhood for nationhood and sovereignty, et cetera.
Siri Schwabe 06:54
So so that's a bit about the club in very general terms.
Francesco Belcastro 06:58
Yeah, can I ask you something? So you mentioned that, well, under the years old, so we're talking about the 1920s when it was funded.
Siri Schwabe 07:06
1920, yeah.
Francesco Belcastro 07:07
Would you say, like, where are these Palestinians? Has Chile got a big Palestinian community and do we know something about, you know, the specific people that funded the club? And is that relevant to how the club developed?
Siri Schwabe 07:21
Well, they were part of the Palestinian community. I mean, there was a very tight connection from the beginning. So so that's, I mean, that there was a clear link. And I think still, if you look at other Palestinian organizations in Santiago, there is a link, you know, there's a connection there.
Francesco Belcastro 07:39
Were they like were they from a particular part of Palestine or do we know something about? Yeah.
Siri Schwabe 07:45
Yeah, so I mean, Palestinian immigration to Chile started very early. I mean, the first Palestinians started coming in around sort of the mid 1800s, when this was still, you know, part of the Ottoman Empire.
Siri Schwabe 08:00
I mean, this was pre -Israel immigration, largely when it started, and it kind of increased over the decades, especially into the early decades of the 20th century. But these were largely sort of communities of Christian Palestinians from what we now often refer to as the West Bank.
Siri Schwabe 08:20
So especially the areas around Bethlehem, the villages of Beit Jala and Beit Sahour are often referred to as part of the history. And that's where often people who still have links to Palestine and in Chile, they still have links to those areas and can trace sort of their family roots back to, you know, sometimes even specific houses.
Siri Schwabe 08:40
Et cetera, et cetera. So that that's in very broad terms. And of course, there's, you know, minorities within the communities as well, and people who have different stories. But in very general terms, those tend to be the types of people who came and arrived to Chile during that time.
Siri Schwabe 08:58
So and you could say as well as part of that, that, you know, engaging with the Palestinian struggle and the Palestinian cause, as it were, was something that happened from diaspora, in a sense. I mean, these are not refugees in, you know, as we tend to think of Palestinians who have fled the situation there post the establishment of Israel.
Siri Schwabe 09:21
So the whole connection to what's ongoing there at the moment is something that's been forged at a distance, you could say, even though that there are, of course, specific links with family and having made trips there, et cetera.
Francesco Belcastro 09:33
That kind of makes a club a bit different from other clubs. We associate with Palestinians, notably Al -Widat, for example, the Amman -based club, which is essentially a refugee club, so to speak. So that's a big difference, it seems to me, in terms of identity.
Francesco Belcastro 09:46
Now, you are yourself an anthropologist, but you are based in a sort of interdisciplinary center. What, and you studied Palestine, you have done ethnographic work there. What made it interesting for you?
Francesco Belcastro 09:59
Like, what attracted you to the Portivo -Palestinian? Were you do big football fan? Was it identity? What is that for you as a researcher was...?
Siri Schwabe 10:09
Yeah, for me, it was part of it was part of trying to understand the connection that's forged in Santiago between the Chilean and the Palestinian context. And I was very interested, actually, in sort of the politics of being Palestinian and of engaging with Palestine from that Chilean context.
Siri Schwabe 10:27
So so the football was secondary to me to begin with. I wasn't necessarily a football fan, but I realized quite early on when I when I came to Santiago to do my field work that I had to, I had to get involved with this club somehow, because it was such a big part of the community, but it was also kind of a very, you know, prominent part of the, you know, cultural landscape in Chile and beyond.
Siri Schwabe 10:53
I mean, it's very difficult to ignore, right? Such a huge sort of popular established organization that, you know, claims to represent Palestine and Chile. So I started going to the stadium and trying to find out more about the club and the team and the history and how everything works around it because I was interested in, you know, how do we how do people engage with Palestine in Santiago?
Siri Schwabe 11:19
How do people also engage with with memories of Palestine and with the current politics of being Palestinian, etc. So that was my way in. And then, of course, you know, it's difficult not to not to get into it.
Siri Schwabe 11:30
I'd say I'm more into football now than I was when I first arrived. Right. So yeah, it was it was a really interesting experience, but it was it was the Palestinian connection more than anything that that pulled me personally into into the club and and spurred my interest in it.
Francesco Belcastro 11:49
How was the stadium experience here? It was a nice place to watch football. Would you recommend it to listeners who happened to pass by Santiago?
Siri Schwabe 11:55
Oh, absolutely. I mean, La Cisterna, where, where, where Palestino play out of is very, you know, at least by certain standards, it's a fairly humble stadium, you know, it's, it's, it's low key, it's, it's quite informal, you know. At the time of my fieldwork, which is a few years ago by now, unfortunately, and it was fairly cheap to get in, you know, you can easily get tickets, and, you know, buy a snack on the way in an avocado sandwich or what have you, you know, and go and send on the bleachers with the other fans and supporters and, and the atmosphere there, I thought, was very, you know, vibrant, there's a lot of, you know, shouting as there should be, there's a lot of waving of flags, chants, you have you name it, you know, the way we know football culture from, from other parts of the world as well.
Siri Schwabe 12:46
So absolutely. You know, it's, it's a walk from it's a little walk from the local metro station, you know, you get out and you walk with the other supporters from the train over to where the game takes place.
Siri Schwabe 12:58
And, you know, it's, it's a really nice experience. And I think also experiencing the stadium, you can really see sort of the Palestinian connection again, I mean, the decor of the place, you know, the colors of the Palestinian flag on, on everything, the buildings, the I think it's very, I have to say, it's very welcoming as well.
Siri Schwabe 13:23
I remember when I did my field work, some people who were like, oh, you go to the stadium. I mean, isn't it just, you know, how as a young woman, you know, how do you how does that work? You know, do you feel okay there?
Siri Schwabe 13:35
Do you feel safe and welcome, etc. And absolutely, yes, I did. No one ever looked at me strange or or anything like that. So, so I think it was it was really nice to be part of that. I know as well that I think there is a growing tendency for all sorts of different people to come in and support Palestino, or not least due to the current situation.
Siri Schwabe 13:54
And they're in Colombia at the moment. And I just saw I just saw this morning someone posting from from a game a couple days ago, saying, Look, there's people from lots of different countries, men, women, you know, people coming in from all over to support Palestine.
Siri Schwabe 14:10
So there's a really sort of, I find at least sort of inclusive and welcoming community around the club as well.
Francesco Belcastro 14:19
Siri, thank you very much. This has been absolutely fascinating and it's a great introduction into the topic for listeners that want to also read more. Could you remind us the title of the article you published and where the listeners can find it?
Siri Schwabe 14:34
Absolutely. The article that I wrote about the club a few years ago was called "Resistance in Representation". And if you stick that into Google or your preferred search engine, it should come up. And as far as I can tell, it should be accessible online.
Siri Schwabe 14:49
Otherwise, people are welcome to contact me to get access if they're interested.
Francesco Belcastro 14:58
Siri, thank you very much for your time. Thank you very much, we really appreciate it.
Siri Schwabe 15:02
Thank you for having me. Thank you.
Francesco Belcastro 15:04
Guy, what are we doing now?
Guy Burton 15:06
Yeah, so well, having spoken to Siri, we now obviously need to speak to, you know, our second guest who is Jose, you know, the chief of the Palestino media teams. So Jose, it's good to talk to you.
Guy Burton 15:17
So one of the things that we are curious about, you know, is that in Latin America, there's a very common sense of identity, these clubs, the Club de Colonia, you know, clubs that represent different communities.
Guy Burton 15:31
And in this sense, Palestino was different from other clubs in both in Chile and Latin America more generally. And do you think that the history of the Palestinian people has played a role in this?
Jose Nazbo [Spanish] 15:42
Bueno, eh, Francesco, Guy eh, primero que todo...
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 15:46
Okay, thank you. Perfect. Okay. Well, Francesco Guy, first of all, thank you for the invitation for the podcast, for the possibility of talking about the Palestino...
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 16:00
Palestino Sports Club, which is something we, those of us who are fans, love. I'm lucky to be a Palestino fan and also work for Palestino. My father was a Palestino director and also my grandparents and my fathers and my mothers on my mother's side came from Palestine.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 16:22
So I really feel that the club is part of my life.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 16:29
In answer to your question, yes, it is true. There are neighborhoods, clubs throughout South America. In Chile, in particular, there are three colonial, colonial clubs that we love. We know that play the colonial classic between them, which are Union Española, Audax Italiano, and Palestino.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 16:51
That's the three teams. So we, they play against each other.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 16:58
It is the Colonia Classic, it is the Derby. They are quiet games because the number of fans aren't so numerous, so massive. But effectively, and as you say, Palestine is a Colonia team different from the rest, largely due to the history of the Palestinian people.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 17:20
We call this story of struggle and also of a people that has history going to be impressed. It has given fuel to the club, of course. I would say that the suffering of the Palestinian people is the fuel of the Palestino sports club.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 17:35
I think, Palestino,
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 17:38
I think the club achieved success by being professional, being competitive, because we know that it is necessary to show the flag of Palestine. The Union Espanola or the Audax Italiano do not have the real link with Italians or Spain because they do not need it, because we all know what Spain is, what Italy is.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 18:01
But Palestine, unfortunately, because of experiencing a genocide, today it is in danger of extinction, and today more than ever, Palestine has to take advantage of sports to deliver a message of peace and solidarity with Palestine.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 18:18
So it is a different colonial club. In Palestine, we have a different relationship with Palestine. There are directors of the Palestino Sports Club, other directors who have communication with people from the Palestinian National Authority.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 18:30
There is a real link and we know that Palestine, and they know.
Francesco Belcastro 18:38
This is very interesting. And actually, the next question we wanted to ask you to do a lot with this. It's interesting you mentioned the both of your grandparents from Palestine itself. And this makes this role really, really, this connection really unique.
Francesco Belcastro 18:56
Could you tell us a bit more about what the club has done to keep this connection? Tours, initiatives of support, and political education of players?
Jose Nazbo [Spanish] 19:06
And it's a lot of things in different areas, okay? Por ejemplo...
Francesco Belcastro 19:13
Ingles o espanol?
Jose Nazbo [Spanish] 19:15
Espanol. Voy hacer en espanol...
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 19:21
I'm going to pick speak in Spanish, for example, or OK, our fans, all our fans are very supportive of the Palestinian cause.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 19:32
It marches in street demonstrations on social networks and then there are fans of other teams as well.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 19:41
Colo Colo, the Universidad de Chile, almost every team always supports Palestino and Palestino, and wants Palestino to win. It's a club that is very much loved here in Chile. Why? Because they know that Palestino represents the Palestinian cause.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 19:58
At many games, the public brings our giant -sized Palestinian flag. Everyone comes out with their flag, with their kofiya.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 20:07
Our players come out with their cufias, they come out with flags, they come out with cufias with the message and support to stop the genocide in Gaza. In other words, we have a community, the entire community of the Palestino Sports Club.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 20:23
Fans, leaders, players, officials are highly aware of what is happening in Palestine and we try to do that from within the club. In other words, we have a community, the entire team of the Palestinian Sports Club.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 20:39
Fans, leaders, players.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 20:48
We have annual meetings with the players, coaching staff and officials, talks from leaders of the Palestinian community in Chile, where the political, historical, and religious context that exists in Palestine is explained.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 21:01
And we also talk about what we are experiencing now. Well, between 1948 and 2023, there was an occupation and apartheid. But from 2023, we also began to experience genocide. Then the club started doing more things.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 21:19
Now, answering Francesco's question, the club has schools in Palestine. It has free football clubs for children where they provide equipment and pay the teachers. Now, there are two schools in Ramallah and one in Gaza.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 21:34
For obvious reasons, the one in Gaza is out of [action], at the moment, for within the past seven months now. The ones in Ramallah have been working normally, but...
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 21:46
The club built schools in Beit Jalla and built a soccer field for the community for free.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 21:55
Palestino has also made several tours to Palestine. The players have traveled there. They have visited Mahmud Abbas, President of the Palestinian National Authority. Mahmud Abbas also came to Chile and also visited the Palestino Sports Club.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 22:10
He came to match, to a match, and he met with the players. In other words, there is a real relationship where the entire community of Palestino Sports Club shows support, and the club has achieved a lot of global attention in recent months.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 22:27
What is happening in Palestine has been made very visible thanks to the club. But we don't really talk about politics. We don't talk about religion. We don't talk about war. We talk about solidarity and peace within Palestine through sport.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 22:42
That is the most important thing. We have FIFA, CONMEBOL and the National Professional Football Association of Chile as bodies that impose a lot of limits on us. They sanction us if we speak political or religious terms, so we cannot.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 22:57
What we can do is through sports because we believe that this is not a political cause. It is not right or left, not Catholic, Muslim or Jewish.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 23:12
It is a humanitarian issue of humanity with Palestine that is being experienced and that is why we believe that through sports we have to deliver that message. As I tell you, some of the actors that are done on the flags, on match days, when the players come out with the kufiya, when they come out with a message, when we meet with the president of Palestine, when there are visit tours and also, of course, the schools of Palestine.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 23:44
Our directors in the personal capacities also make large financial donations to associations that contribute to Gaza, but that is on an individual basis and not a Palestino sports club. We try to avoid links between institutions and donations, which can be somewhat complicated on an economic level.
Guy Burton 24:02
Yeah. I mean, can we, can we, you just ended there, Jose, and that's actually something we wanted to come on to, talking about what's going on, the current situation in Gaza and Israel's violence out there.
Guy Burton 24:16
Can you tell us a little bit more?
Francesco Belcastro 24:18
I think the word you're looking for is genocide.
Guy Burton 24:22
Well, I guess what we really want to know is how the club and the fans have been reacting, what has been going on in Santiago and amongst Palestino's fans there and in the wider Chile and Latin American region in response to what's happened since October 7th.
Jose Nazbo [Spanish] 24:42
Si
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 24:43
Perfect, yes. Look we started to have some actions to raise awareness the first thing is that we talk to our players. There are photographs and videos of the meaning, so if you need to photos videos i can share everything with you. Afterwards a talk was held with our players our players also began to go out on the pitch before the games with a black ribbon on their arms in the morning, a sign of mourning of course.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 25:10
On the social networks, the club began to report what was happening. It began to inform the Chilean community of the genocide, and we began to gain many followers from different parts of the world that support from Indonesia, Egypt, Algeria, France.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 25:26
We began to inform this community about what is happening in Palestine.
Jose Nazbo [Spanish] 25:30
Y empez amo informar esta comunidad.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 25:32
And then we also had other actions. For example, the other day in the front of the University of Chile, our players came out with a sign that had the phrase in Arabic, English and Spanish, demanding that the genocide stop in Gaza with the Palestinian flag.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 25:49
It cost us, though. We received a sanction of $5 ,000 from the Chilean Football Association, but they are cost that the club is willing to take in order to make noise. Because we believe that what is happening is outrageous, and that it cannot continue.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 26:07
We have taken advantage of the platform that football gives us. For example, we're playing the Copa Libertadores, which is also a very prestigious and important tournament. Therefore, we always carry the Palestinian flags to all the stadiums where Palestinian plays.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 26:22
There is always a large Palestinian flag, and we believe that the most important thing is that to talk about Palestine because we stopped talking about Palestine, we will see the situation normalized.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 26:36
And that is what is happening is not normal. Thank you.
Francesco Belcastro 26:43
This is very important. Thanks for mentioning this. Actually, we've got a last question for you, which is more perhaps on the on the Palestinian community in Chile itself, because we know that in Santiago in particular, Palestino, it's a bit of a sort of center for the community.
Francesco Belcastro 26:59
I mean, the Chilean community in Santiago is a very interesting one that came in the 1920s. It's very rich culturally. And, and Palestine is a bit of a center for it, right? Can you tell us a role as a kind of community catalyst?
Jose Nazbo [Spanish] 27:16
Si, si. Bueno. Como ustedes saben, as you know, the Palestinian community in Chile is the largest Palestinian community in the world without Arab countries. Okay. Es aproximadamente medio million, a little bit more than half a million...
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 27:42
It is approximately half a million, little bit more, little bit more than half a million. The Palestino Sports Club is one of the Palestinian institutions in Chile. There are many, there are foundations, social clubs, community, there are dabke centers, dabke cultures and communities.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 28:03
Dabke is a form of traditional dance from Palestine.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 28:10
There are many institutions. Palestino is one, there are more. Palestino is the most popular. It is the most popular Palestinian institution in Chile. And that Palestinian institution is very embedded in the Chilean community.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 28:27
The Palestinian community that arrived in Chile as you say two centuries ago is a community that is integrated very well into Chilean society. So today we have a first division football team that competes on equal terms with Colo Colo, Universidad de Chile, big teams.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 28:47
And we also have Palestino as a meeting place for Palestinians in Chile
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 28:55
The other week, on Sunday, Palestino visited Iquique, sitting in the north of Chile, the extreme north of Chile. We have fans, not a lot, but we have fans who were Palestinians in Iquique. When we played in Concepcion de Mucón, everywhere there is Palestino fans.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 29:14
There are a few, not many. They are there because they are of Palestinian origin. So, the sports club is an important cultural center. There are many more in Chile, cultural centers. We have the map of Palestine on our shirts.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 29:34
In 2004, we replaced the number one on the shirt with the historical map of Palestine. That also cost us the football, with the football association, but we put the club on the list. And I think that this is the most important thing.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 29:51
What the club has to do. We are a football team. We are not going to fix the situation in Palestine. We are not going to change the lives of Palestinians.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 30:02
But we can ensure that people talk about Palestine, that the media talk about Palestine.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 30:10
And we can do that through sports, that's why our problem is more than a team, it's a people, it's more than a team, right?
Jose Nazbo [Spanish] 30:17
No vamos a regular la situacion en Palestina. Nosotros no vamos a cambiar la vida de los Palestinos. Pero si podemos conseguir que ser habler de Palestina, que lo medio de comunicacion hablen de Palestina, y eso lo podemos hacer atraves de desporte, por eso nuestra problema es mas de un equipe, todo un pueblo. More than a team, a whole people, no? Eso.
Francesco Belcastro 30:46
In the last, well, 20 years, maybe even more, Palestino really become a symbol of Palestinian -ness in all of Latin America and even outside. Even like in demonstrations in London, you left people wearing Palestinian jerseys.
Jose Nazbo [Spanish] 31:03
Yes, yes, the Palestinians. jersey is in all manifestations in the world about Palestine.
Francesco Belcastro 31:11
Yeah, what explains this success, you think?
Jose Nazbo [Spanish] 31:15
Um, porque es deporte, Es deporte, y aí está el segredo de la popularía de Palestino. Creo que hoy el mundo está abriendo los ojos. Muchas gente apoya Palestina. Pero es difícil, porque si esta apoya Palestina...
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 31:40
Because of sports. It is because of sports that provide Palestino its popularity. I believe that the world is opening its eyes today. Many people support Palestine, but it's difficult because if you support Palestine, then people think you must support Hamas, right?
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 32:00
If you support Palestine, then you must be Muslim. But no, not a Muslim. I'm not an atheist. I'm a Christian or I'm a Jew because many Jews support Palestine. It's not that if you are supporting Palestine, that you are leftist, that you are communist.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 32:19
No. Club Deportivo Palestino doesn't talk about politics. He doesn't talk about religion. He doesn't talk about any of these things because we don't like violence. It's a sport that we speak and we say that we love Palestine and we pass on the message about Palestine.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 32:39
So that means that people around the world want to support Palestine, but do not have a way to feel represented. So Palestine represents many people who don't feel strongly about religion or politics.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 32:53
You see, Palestino throughout sport manages to attract people who support Palestine, but who don't want to get involved in other ways. Okay. This is why I believe that Palestino has been very successful.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 33:09
And the second thing is that also very important is that Palestino has become well known in intelligent use of marketing, in its merchandise, in marketing features, its jersey strongly. It offers new innovative t -shirts, which put them up of Palestine and different symbols of Palestine, like the Al -Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem on the jersey.
Jose Nazbo [English translation] 33:35
And the club's main sponsor, which is on front of the shirt is the Palestine, the Bank of Palestine.
Jose Nazbo [Spanish] 33:42
...A lot of details that became Club Deportivo Palestino in a very popular symbol of palestinian cause without entering Hamas, Jewish, State Israel, OK?
Francesco Belcastro 33:58
Jose, thank you very much, it's absolutely fascinating. Guy, sorry, you wanted to add something?
Guy Burton 34:02
No, no, no. It's been very, very, very interesting and very rich, what we've just heard from Jose. And I'm also reminded as well of, you know, we were just talking about the Palestino club shirts. I mean, a number of them have stood out for me in the last year or so, including, you know, the use of Palestine as the number, right?
Guy Burton 34:20
The number 11, but with the Palestine. And also, I think Celtic Football Club also did a sort of a mash up with Palestino with the green stripes and green and white stripes. So really, you know, very, very, yeah, very, very sort of, you know, cat eye catching jersey.
Guy Burton 34:36
But Jose, thank you so much for your time. This has been really interesting and we really appreciate you taking the time to speak for us.
Francesco Belcastro 34:44
Thank you very much.
Jose Nazbo [Spanish] 34:45
Thank you very much, muchas gracias muchachos.
Francesco Belcastro 34:50
Well, great. Thank you very much, Jose, and thanks to Siri as well. We have learned a lot, and this is really, really fascinating club. I know you use the word fascinating a lot, but this really was fascinating.
Guy Burton 35:00
Yeah. And I mean, and if you do get a chance, you happen to find yourself in Santiago, then by all means go down and check out the team and watch them play. Um, you know, really, I mean, I, I, like I said, at the very start of this episode, I've been to see them play in Santiago, less thrilled about the fact that they actually beat Flamengo, my, my, my Brazilian team in the Copa de Libertadores last month, but you know, I'll accept it this time.
Francesco Belcastro 35:25
You're gonna you have to love like a giant killer right small club killing the big giants. Who doesn't, who doesn't like that? But probably Flamengo fans like yourself don't like that!
Guy Burton 35:37
So okay, so that was that was really useful. So now this obviously what next Francesco what else we need to remind listeners?
Francesco Belcastro 35:44
Well we need to remind our listeners a few important things. The first one it's to get in touch with us and we are on all social media. We are on Blue Sky. We are on Twitter, X, we are on Facebook, Instagram mm -hmm and why do we have to get in touch with us they have to tell us what we're doing right what we're doing wrong and crucially we rely on them for suggestions in terms of topics and guests. That's very important.
Guy Burton 36:14
Yeah, we had a few good ones in the past, haven't we?
Francesco Belcastro 36:14
Yeah it's very important. And also we ask them a small favor to like rate share our podcast on whatever app they get it from, the different ways in which they can do that. If it's Spotify they can rate us, some others they can just like us or whatever they follow us yeah really helps us sort of spread the podcast around. We've got, we are almost at the end of our first year so we've got a massive catalog of episodes. There's a lot of interesting ones, we have massive big variety yeah of topic, so we also encourage listeners to go back and check some of the episodes that they have missed because there's a lot of interesting stuff
Guy Burton 37:05
And I guess we should also say, because of that, Francesco, just to sort of let listeners know that from about probably mid -July, we're going to probably be taking a short summer break, right? We plan to be back in early September, but, you know, we do feel we need a little bit of a summer break, and, you know, there's other things that we need, you know, we're going to be doing over that time.
Guy Burton 37:22
So, big back catalogue of stuff for people to listen to!
Francesco Belcastro 37:27
And listeners deserve a break from us as well! They deserve some Monday mornings without us.
Guy Burton 37:30
They deserve a break from you!
Francesco Belcastro 37:33
You do as well!
Guy Burton 37:37
So yeah, so obviously yes, from mid -July, you know, Monday mornings won't be complete for listeners, but we will be back in September with a whole bunch of new ones.
Francesco Belcastro 37:47
And we'll be working on new episodes. We already are actually already working. on the new season.
Guy Burton 37:50
Yeah, we are doing that already.
Francesco Belcastro 37:51
Yeah. Guy, before we go, can I ask you to remind our listeners of another thing? There is another podcast that you're working on.
Francesco Belcastro 38:00
Could you remind listeners what that is and where they can find it?
Guy Burton 38:04
Yes, so next week we're going to, when we come back out on Monday right? So next week...
Francesco Belcastro 38:09
There is another podcast that listeners should check out.
Guy Burton 38:11
Oh, oh, you mean my little podcast? Oh, you're too kind!
Francesco Belcastro 38:12
Yeah, yeah. Can you remind listeners how that's going and where they can find it?
Guy Burton 38:18
Yeah, you're too kind. No, no, so I do a little podcast, you know .So once a week on Wednesdays as opposed to Mondays and it's just called Ten Minutes On... and it's about a particular topic that happens to be in the news that week. But I try to do a little bit more of a deep dive into what's going on in and around it. You can find it on Buzzsprout, which is the platform that we use for this podcast as well It would be lovely if you guys would listen to it and you know share and subscribe to it.
Francesco Belcastro 38:48
Buzzsprout as well as all the other apps, right? So it's, you're on Spotify, you are... Yeah, they've done all of it. So if you just pass Prout, they can find you on Spotify, on Apple, all of them.
Guy Burton 38:57
But if people just want to come to my Twitter account, you should be able to find the links to it from there as well.
Francesco Belcastro 39:04
I encourage listeners to check it out. I'm a listener. It's very, very interesting.
Guy Burton 39:11
Yes, and it only takes 10 minutes of your time.. Now, next week, we're going to be back again, obviously, next Monday, we have another episode. And this time, we're going to be talking about football in Ukraine, and you know, what the impact of the Russian war has had, you know, on football in Ukraine, as well as basically actually some of the history of of football in that country, you know, sort of the tensions that have existed between Ukraine and Russia prior to the 2022 war, you know, during the including during the Soviet era, and to have, you know, to joining us to talk about that is the Ukrainian political scientist, Olga Ruzhelnyk, and she's going to be meeting us next week.
Guy Burton 39:50
So please come to with a video.
Francesco Belcastro 39:51
very rich history. So it's a very interesting politics. So it's gonna be a good one.
Guy Burton 39:58
Yeah, but all it leaves us to say then is that thank you for taking the time to listen to us this week And we look forward to speaking to you next week
Francesco Belcastro 40:04
See you Monday!
Guy Burton 40:04
Francesco, as ever great speaking to you. See you Monday.
Guy Burton 40:08
Bye.
Francesco Belcastro 40:08
Bye bye. Bye.