From the boardrooms to government: the politics of football in Thailand ft. Arjin Thongyuukong and Matt Riley

How entwined is football and politics in Thailand? Guy and Francesco talk to Thai scholar Arjin Thongyuukong and UK journalist Matt Riley about the origins and development of the game in Thailand.  Matt and Arjin discuss the rise of the national league and the presence of politicians like Thaksin Shinawatra and Newin Chidchob as football club owners. Meanwhile, Thai society has undergone dramatic change in recent decades, resulting in the emergence of a new lower-middle class enthusiastic about football and demanding greater political representation.  In addition, the guests also discuss the state and development of the women's and youth games in Thailand as well as the international connections made by Thai football.

Arjin Thongyookong is a doctoral student at Loughborough University in the UK and a lecturer in the Faculty of Athropology and Sociology at Thammasat University in Bangkok.

Matt Riley has commented on Thai football for the Asia-wide Fox Sports Central and is the author of Thai Football Tales.

Transcript

From the boardrooms to government: the politics of football in Thailand ft. Arjin Thongyuukong and Matt Riley

Francesco Belcastro 00:10

Welcome to FootPol, the podcast where football meets politics. I'm one of your co -hosts, Dr. Francesco Belcastro, and here is my main host, co -host, Dr. Guy Burton. 

Guy Burton 00:18

Hello, how are you doing? It's nice to see you again, Francesco. How are you doing this week? 

Francesco Belcastro 00:22

I'm fine, I'm fine, how are you? 

Guy Burton 00:24

Yeah, not too bad, thanks. I think we're doing an interesting topic this week, aren't we as well? 

Francesco Belcastro 00:28

We are, but I just wanted to make you notice that I promoted you to main co-host because you came up with the idea of the podcast! So I think this needs to be acknowledged somehow, right? 

Guy Burton 00:39

No, well, I mean, you know, obviously just you know, a higher salary would be appreciated! 

Francesco Belcastro 00:43

Yes, 

Guy Burton 00:43

I'm basically getting you know You're getting zero. I'm getting zero, but I'm getting more of zero! But anyway, never mind. 

Guy Burton 00:50

Let's move on. So tell us what are we talking about this week? 

Francesco Belcastro 00:53

So this week, we're talking about the country that most people will associate with history, architecture, holidays, and good food, and not so much with football. So it's Thailand. We're talking about the politics of football in Thailand. 

Francesco Belcastro 01:08

A lot of us, I don't know much about football in Thailand, for example. So it's gonna be an interesting episode. 

Guy Burton 01:14

Yeah, because previously we've done an episode that looked at East Asian football, but primarily kind of Northeast Asia, looking around China, Japan, and South Korea. So now we're starting to look into Southeast Asia, which actually has a bit of a football culture there. 

Guy Burton 01:27

And to join us, we've actually got two really good guests who are going to come in to speak to us. Both, one is Matt Riley and the other one is Arjin Thongyuukong. So, Matt, welcome. 

Matt Riley 01:39

Hi, it's great to talk about Thai football again after all these years. Nice to be on, guys. 

Guy Burton 01:43

Well, no, thank you and Arjun, thank you for also joining us as well. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 01:47

Yes, thank you so much. I'm so happy to join you. 

Guy Burton 01:50

Yeah. So let me just, you know, for the, for the purpose of the listeners, give a little bit of an overview of who, who our two guests are. So Matt, Matt Riley is actually a journalist has been a journalist in Thai football for many years. 

Guy Burton 02:01

And he used to appear regularly on Fox Sports Central, which is a nightly show beamed across Asia where he was talking about Thai football. And he's since returned to England where he's now lecturer in business management at the University of Exeter. 

Guy Burton 02:15

He's actually written a book about football in Thailand called Thai Football Tales. And he's also written two other books called Kitt and Caboodle and Her Game 2+Too. Arjun, Arjin Thonguukong is a doctoral PhD student at the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences at Loughborough University in the UK. 

Guy Burton 02:34

But he's currently joining us from Bangkok, where he's carrying out research for his studies, as well as, you know, studying at Loughborough. He is also a lecturer in the Faculty of Sociology and Anthropology at Thammasat University. 

Guy Burton 02:47

And his interests include sociology, sport, anthropology, fan culture, and popular culture. So listen, it's great to have both of you join us. And I wondered, because we normally like to start by asking guests if they've got a football team. 

Guy Burton 02:59

So Matt, if I could go with you first. 

Matt Riley 03:02

Yeah, so I am Aston Villa by vocation. I'm born into an Aston Villa family, but I'm Exeter City by location. I'm all in. I'm a season ticket holder. I'm a stadium announcer. I'm a trust fund, trust not trust fund, a trustee of a trust run club. 

Matt Riley 03:16

And we sponsor two of the women's teams. So yes, I'm a mixed bag. 

Guy Burton 03:21

Great. And Arjin, you also follow football as well? 

Arjin Thongyuukong 03:26

Actually, I'm a fan of a Thai football club, in Bangkok: Port. Now there are some mixed emotions between me and the club. So I forced my fan... My relationship with the club for a while. Maybe in the future, maybe something changed, I'm not sure. 

Francesco Belcastro 03:48

It's a first division club, Arjin. I'm not familiar with them yet. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 03:53

Yes, they are in the highest division club in Thailand and also now is quite big club in Thailand. 

Speaker 5 04:00

Hmm 

Guy Burton 04:00

Well, listen, it's been wonderful and hopefully maybe we can get into a little bit, we're obviously going to get into talking about some of the clubs in Thailand. But before we start, could we just begin with a little bit of an overview of both football and politics or the typical history of Thailand? 

Guy Burton 04:15

Because one of the things about Thailand is it stands apart in Southeast Asia as one of the few countries there which was not colonized by the Europeans. So it has very much its own independent history. 

Guy Burton 04:27

So with that in mind, how did football really come to Thailand in the first place and what has been the development of Thailand during the time that football has grown there? Arjin, maybe I could come to you to begin with. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 04:41

Yes, thank you so much, Guy. I think that's a good question, especially when you mentioned the parallel between the history of football and the political history of Thailand. In my opinion, the answer is yes, definitely yes. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 04:54

They reflect each other all the times. To give you the overview of Thailand and Thai football, we explained both of them in the parallel. Even though Thailand was not officially colonized by European countries, but practically, the Westerners had significant influence in Thailand at that time.

Arjin Thongyuukong 05:17

And there are also greatly impact that changed something in Thailand at that time. Actually, at that time, Thailand is not named Thai. At that time, it's named Siam, and changed to Thailand later. But to not make us confused, I will say just to the Thailand all the time when we talk about the past of Thailand. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 05:39

Actually, some scholars argue that there was something called internal colonialism, where the elite in Bangkok employed the idea of civilization to dominate and exploit the people in the widest political region, along with the idea of the modern state that contributed formation of the current Thai nation. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 06:03

At the same time, it was also the period when football was introduced into Thailand. Football became, in my opinion, also from some of my research, Thai football became a symbol of civilization, and also its political application. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 06:21

Considering the connection between football and politics, which is the main aim of our podcast, it could be said that in the case of Thailand, football has been linked to the politics since its introduction to Siam at that time. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 06:36

The upper class enjoyed playing football as a means of demonstrating superiority over the other class, as well as the political tool. The most obvious example of this is during the era of King Rama VI, King of Thailand, who founded the White Tiger Corps. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 06:55

It also included establishment of the Football Association of Thailand, which is founded from the support from the King Rama VI, and also employed his close nobleman as the first president of the Football Association. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 07:15

Because the political system at that time in Thailand is an absolute monarchy, I think it can be said that the role of the king was something political, and that he is also a politician. So, it can be said that at the first place, the football come to Thailand is so close connected with the politics, and also politicians, as the elite at that time. 

Guy Burton 07:45

And we're looking at what period here at the end of the 19th century, beginning of the 20th? 

Arjin Thongyuukong 07:50

Around the start of 20th century. 

Guy Burton 07:53

I mean, looking at... Because obviously Thailand undergoes a degree of political development during the 20th century. I think after 1932, it becomes a more constitutional monarchy. And then you have, you know, a political system in which you have both parliamentary politics, as well as, you know, occasional bouts of military rule. 

Guy Burton 08:14

And I think that's pretty much continued since. At the same time, I think you've also got, you know, sort of the emergence of more politics in the periphery, right, in the north, in the far north and the far south of the country, as well as, you know, emerging sort of minorities, whether it's religious or linguistic or ethnic. 

Guy Burton 08:32

And particularly these minorities in the periphery, do they become more visible in Thai football? 

Arjin Thongyuukong 08:40

Actually, yes, before before the growing of the Thai football cup from the 2000-2010 decade, because most development in Thailand was packed in Bangkok, not spread around the country. It is the one problem of Thailand that can be reflected into the football. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 09:01

Another thing that's quite interesting that you said about the revolution of Thailand in 1932 is that actually at that time 1932 is the revolution in Thailand and 1930 is the first World Cup which organized in Uruguay. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 09:22

You know at that time, Thailand is one of the first Asian countries to join FIFA and at that time, Thailand is also the member of FIFA. If I am not mistaken at that time, FIFA have maybe just only 40 to 50 members and they invite almost all of the nations to all of the country to join the World Cup. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 09:50

But Thailand at that time didn't join because at that time it's something that is a Great Depression. You know, it's an economic downfall. Thailand has less money. They cannot join the World Cup in so far [a place] at the South America. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 10:08

And another thing is that there are some instability of political situation in Thailand which led into the revolution two years later. After the 1932 [revolution], the official history of Thai football called the period after the revolution as the Dark Age of Thai football because the civil government didn't support football as much as the monarchy era. 

Francesco Belcastro 10:43

So this dimension that you mentioned, the first question of class is very interesting because it keeps popping up in a lot of episodes in different countries that we've done, doesn't it, Guy? We have an episode on football politics in Brazil that very much talks about class, a completely different context, but some parallels there. 

Francesco Belcastro 11:01

Could I perhaps bring Matt into this? So Arjin mentioned this issue of sort of the relationship with the outside world, if you want, with Thai football. Let's talk a bit about the international influence that Thai football had. 

Francesco Belcastro 11:14

So you had this kind of long phase of development. Did Thailand become a sort of international hub for sort of managers, players, investment from abroad? Was that important in the development of Thai football? 

Francesco Belcastro 11:28

And what is the situation at the moment in the sort of alignments, friendship with outside clubs or federations? And what's the effect of that? 

Matt Riley 11:38

Yeah, it's really interesting to listen to Arjin because of the things he talks about, particularly demonstrating power and control. And talking about periphery figures, I think of Newin Chidchob, who is the most massive political beast. 

Matt Riley 11:50

But in terms of international involvement, I've always felt with Thai football that they keep international connections at arm's length, there's there's investment. So if you look at the ownership of Leicester City, Newin Chidchob owns a company called CP, Central Processing Foods. 

Matt Riley 12:07

He's very closely connected to King Power. Obviously, they've got OH Leuven in Belgium. So a lot of it will be for the benefit of, again, people like Newin Chidchob. And he's a great example of the great paradox in politics in Thailand, because he's not a politician, but he's a very powerful man. 

Matt Riley 12:27

He's a kingmaker. He decides who's going to be the prime minister in Thailand. They call it the third hand. 

Matt Riley 12:33

But there have been the kind of the old aging stars. Robbie Fowler was the... was a player and then player coach at the club. 

Matt Riley 12:40

I worked at called Muangthong. Slaviša Jokanović spent a year, a very unhappy year, probably trying to fire his agent because he went undefeated for the entire year and still left. So there is this idea, and even though I worked in football for seven years, this idea that for foreigners, they are tolerated, but you never feel that you're connected. 

Matt Riley 13:04

And the book that you mentioned called Football Tales, the subtitle is A Beautiful Madness. And I think that summarizes the connection with foreign clubs. You know, there have been connections. I was 2010, I was working for Muangthong. 

Matt Riley 13:17

We signed an agreement with Atletico Madrid. And 14 years later, I'd love to know what advantages there were apart from money. In fact, Jesus Gil was there. And he very openly said, we just want your money to build the new stadium, which I actually respected. 

Matt Riley 13:31

It's a towering figure. And he made no bones about it. You know, they were going around the world filling their pockets full of cash to pay for the new stadium. So it's a very like many things in entire society. 

Matt Riley 13:43

It's incredibly complex, based on hierarchy. And I'm very interested that Arjin is a Thai Port fan, because all of the politics and the business is all connected to Thai Port and their owner, Madam Pang, who's now also in charge of the Thai FA. 

Matt Riley 13:59

So it's a complex dance. And I don't think I ever learnt all the steps! 

Francesco Belcastro 14:04

Yeah, so building on that, I mean, you mentioned this issue of of Thai ownership of foreign clubs. There's been something that's been ongoing for a while. In Man City before before its current management and the spell with the Thai ownership. Has that been... had any effect on the domestic game? 

Francesco Belcastro 14:21

Is that or has it been something that is has been kind of kept outside and it's not really reflected in the development of football in Thailand, would you say? In terms of like growing talents or just the politics of the gam

Matt Riley 14:35

Yeah, the Leicester City connection has been very practical. So Buriram United, which is now the preeminent club, they've got an exact carbon copy of the King Power Stadium in Leicester. I actually walked around it with Sven-Goran Eriksen when he was on a 12 -week contract with one of the teams. That's a story and a half! 

Matt Riley 14:54

But there are benefits for him. I think with Man City, that was a very interesting one because Thaksin Shinawatra bought them in 2007 for £80 million. He could see the way the tide was turning in 2008 in Thailand, what they call the political crisis. 

Matt Riley 15:11

And people like him and Newin Chidchob and my former boss, Varawut Silpa-archa, whose father was prime minister, they all got banned from politics. So Thaksin very cleverly bought Manchester City and probably even more cleverly sold it for £120 million profit to the current owners. 

Matt Riley 15:28

So there are some advantages. There were also some very interesting advantages that of the only time we've had three English coaches was just after the Worawi Makudi political story when we had Bryan Robson and that was when England was trying to get the 2018 World Cup and they thought Worawi Makudi would vote for them. 

Matt Riley 15:51

And Worawi being Worawi, he stabbed the English FA in the back after asking for England to play against Thailand. So there are some advantages, but a lot of it is political manoeuvring. 

Francesco Belcastro 16:04

Sorry, for the benefit of listeners, Makudi was a football association president, or...? 

Matt Riley 16:10

Yeah, so Worawi Makudi was the [Thai] Football Association president, and also, of course, a member of FIFA. Lord Treisman used parliamentary privilege to say that he demanded that England came over and that the TV rights will go into his back pocket. 

Matt Riley 16:27

But I think Lord Treisman... There's a bit of a spin there because I know for sure from from within the Thai national team that England were open to bringing the team over during the season, by the way. This was... this was during the season they would fly an England team over and they were open to not charging. 

Matt Riley 16:46

Now, that's all connected to their 2018 bid. So, you know, like many things in Thailand, it's easy to say that there's corruption, but there's plenty of this side of the world as well, isn't there? 

Francesco Belcastro 16:58

Absolutely.

Guy Burton 16:58

Can I ask a question about we've been talking a little bit about sort of the ownerships of clubs in Thailand? Yeah, the extent to which you know, some of these owners, you know double as political actors as well. 

Guy Burton 17:11

Can we also talk a little bit about the fans themselves? I mean do do do some of the fan bases of these clubs also have political identities as well? 

Matt Riley 17:21

I'm thinking about the 2010 riots. There's a Kor Royal Cup, which is essentially a charity shield [match between league and cup winners] between Thai Port, who interestingly is Arjin's team. At the time they were very much the poor working class team, and Muanthong United, who I was working for, who were very much the upper class, always winning everything team. And in Thailand they have the red and the yellow shirts, and Arjin will be able to tell you more about that. But it was seen that the red shirts are seen to be the working class, and the yellow shirts are seen to be the royalists. And the two clubs ended up the only time I've ever seen it in a riot in the second national stadium in Bangkok. So there is some form of politics in terms of that, and you know we went through three coups while we were in Thailand. Three coups plus the 2008 political crisis as it's called. So the political actors are rather like my former boss, who uses football for his political means. He's now in the Thai cabinet, his name was Top: Varawut Silpa-archa, basically his father passed down the province when he was prime minister.

Matt Riley 18:29

And his father's nickname was Mr. ATM.So you can imagine what his political policy was! And I'm sure Arjin, you can tell us more about those stories. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 18:39

I don't know, actually, I don't know much about the story of Mr. ATM, but I have some story from Thaksin Shinawatra to tell you that, if you remind me, but you mentioned about him. Actually, Thaksin is the former prime minister of Thailand, who was, who got couped, from the military coup in 2006 if I'm not mistaken. After he left, escaped from Thailand, he, he bought Manchester City, right? 

Arjin Thongyuukong 19:16

But before that, the most interesting thing is maybe if not mistaken, maybe 2003 or 2004, when Thaksin Shinawatra is, was being the prime minister of Thailand, he planned to buy Liverpool Football Club by not, not from by, not by himself, but by the created the funding of the national funding... Create the national funding from the Thai people by sale, the lottery to earn the money to buy, to buy the Liverpool Football Club. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 19:54

But the problem at the time is that he was criticized so much from Thai, from Thai people. So this plan is cancelled. He, he know that Thai middle class liked English football so much, because, because during after the Cold War, is the time that the economy of Thailand was growing rapidly. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 20:20

And most of Thai middle class like to watch the European football league, especially English football league, Premier League. So it is one of the best way to gain popularity from the middle class to buy the football club. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 20:40

Maybe this is part of the reason that he wanted to buy Manchester City. 

Speaker 5 20:46

Mm -hmm. 

Matt Riley 20:46

That's really interesting, because in 2011 I was working for Banhan's son, the former Prime Minister, and there was another opportunity to buy Liverpool: a Chinese -led consortium. And I then realised just how much money these people have, because my boss simply said, I would have bought West Ham, but I don't think I'll buy Liverpool. 

Matt Riley 21:07

He wasn't put off by the price! So you know, you see these political figures, and you mentioned, Guy, about being connected to football. You see football and its politics, you see business and its politics, because I suppose, like the UK, in Thai football, everything essentially is politics, particularly in Thai football. 

Matt Riley 21:24

When you've got the head of the FA; she's technically a businesswoman, but her father was a politician. She was handed the family business, and now she's running Thai football. She's paying millions of baht to the men's national team as well. #

Guy Burton 21:39

Is there something...

Francesco Belcastro 21:40

One thing. Sorry Guy. For the benefit of listeners, now we know that other countries in the broader region have had some rival sports to football that have been a challenge for popularity. Would you say that in Thailand football is clearly the main sport and what would be the second most popular sport after football? 

Matt Riley 21:59

They used to be Muay Thai, didn't they, Arjin? Muay Thai was very, very popular. When we first arrived in Thailand in 2000, football was very, very low level. The players that we used to see were getting paid pennies to train. 

Matt Riley 22:15

Even national players were coming to training on the back of a motorbike, where there were two other people on the motorbike at the same time. So there was that, but then once the Thai Football League got all these oceans and oceans of political money in the north... Well, how shall I say this? In the North Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, huge, huge amounts of money, Chiang Rai in particular, political money. 

Matt Riley 22:40

In the middle, you've got the, again, the politics of political money, and the south as well. So the football really has taken over. And of course, particularly the Premier League. It's huge, absolutely huge on illegal feeds in... You know, you go on a cafe on the side of the road on an illegal feed, there's Premier League everywhere. 

Francesco Belcastro 22:57

So it has boomed as a sport you'd say in the last 20 years or so. 

Matt Riley 23:02

I'd say so. Yeah, from when I came in 2000 to when we left in 2016, the difference was incredible. The stadiums, the amount of money that players were being paid, you know, the amount of money that agents were making. 

Matt Riley 23:13

Agents were starting to get interested. For the first couple of years, I worked in Thai football. You never saw an agent, but then there was plenty of unlicensed agents, occasionally licensed agents as well. 

Matt Riley 23:23

But yeah, the money that these top players make now is incredible, and a lot of it's in cash. So that's, how shall we say, flexible. 

Francesco Belcastro 23:33

Arjin? 

Arjin Thongyuukong 23:34

So actually, my topic of thesis, my thesis now is topic about Muay Thai. If I compare about the popularity of sport in Thailand, I think now the most popular is maybe football, because Muay Thai is perceived as the old generation sport, and also the rural people sport. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 23:56

But for the middle class in the in the in the urban area, also the new generation, I think that football more than Muay Thai. 

Guy Burton 24:05

I've heard things being said about Port Thai being the club of the working class, but we've also heard about some of these owners wanting to buy the clubs to make their appeal to the middle class. So is football very much a cross class sport in a way that maybe Muay Thai isn't? 

Arjin Thongyuukong 24:24

From my time of research: I think most audience of high football can be described as lower middle class. Most of them is the former, poorer class who earn more money from the maybe after 2000. They can earn more money to going to be the lower middle class. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 24:52

It can be called something like the new class in Thailand. And also some research are good at the emerging of the lower middle class. It's also parallel with the emergence of the Red Shirts, who is the political mass for Thaksin Shinwatra's party. 

Guy Burton 25:13

Well, I mean, I was wondering, obviously, we've been talking primarily about men's football so far, right? And in terms of in terms of both at the domestic level and the international level. But one thing we haven't touched on yet is, is the women's game. 

Guy Burton 25:27

And I wonder if we could talk a little bit about that. I mean, what is the state of the women's game in Thailand compared to the men's? I mean, is it is it taken seriously? Is it been given particular due attention? 

Guy Burton 25:38

And also maybe if we can talk about the youth level as well. You know, to what extent is the youth game gaining more attention in Thailand? Matt? 

Matt Riley 25:48

Yeah, so in terms of the women, they're doing well, the 47th in the FIFA ranks, but with very little traditional support. But we come back to this woman, Madam Pang now, who controls women's football, who supports it financially, hugely. 

Matt Riley 26:06

And she's got a goal to get them, they didn't qualify for this World Cup, but her goal is to get them to qualify for the next World Cup. So there's been this massive shift from the real classic Brillcream sunglass -wearing indoors old men with a cabal of control, to Madam Pang coming in and just completely sweeping in and really, really strongly supporting the women's game. 

Matt Riley 26:31

You know, she is rather divisive. She's taken Thai Port, a working class club, and she's just thrown unlimited funds at it. And Thai Port is in a really interesting location. It's in the center of Bangkok, but in some very, very basic, what you would call slum housing. 

Matt Riley 26:48

And that's Khlong Toei is one of the most challenging areas to live. But the women's game is definitely on the up, but it's really had very little support for a long time. There's a Thai women's league that started on the 2nd of March. 

Matt Riley 27:01

There's two leagues, two leagues of eight. So there is that structure. But basically, whatever Madam Pang wants, she gets and she wants them to qualify. So these aging Brillcream -wearing sunglass -wearing men will have to get their ducks in a row because she doesn't take no for an answer. 

Matt Riley 27:20

That's really good news for women's football because there's some really talented players. We had one of the strikers for the national team, his sister used to play, but they had to deal with so much poor training, poor organization that now finally it's changing. 

Matt Riley 27:36

And with the Academy system, again, it's patchy, but there are some clubs like Bangkok Glass who are now called Pathum United, who were owned by Singha Beer. Interestingly enough, they sponsor Oxford United. 

Matt Riley 27:48

I've been trying to work out why they sponsor the shirts of Oxford United, but that's a very Thai way of investing. But they've got Bangkok Glass and Pathum United as they are now. They've got a really good history of supporting Academy teams. 

Matt Riley 28:03

But again, it's this lack of oversight and a lack of general support of Academy teams. Individual clubs basically can either accept it or reject it. And it's not like an overall approach to Academy. So patchy for both, unfortunately. 

Francesco Belcastro 28:19

Arjin you want to...? 

Arjin Thongyuukong 28:22

You know, one thing that people of Thai football is so obsessed about is when we can qualify to the World Cup finals. But when they said about we and World Cup finals, it just only mean the men's football. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 28:41

But actually, for other kinds of football, like women's football, also the blind football, the deaf football, also maybe the elderly football, those are team of Thai nationals can join for the World Cup finals, they can qualify for the World Cup finals. But the problem until now, most of Thai people also need to qualify for the World Cup finals for men team, men's national team. This is the problem that we are more obsessed about joining the World Cup finals, but obsessed just with the male team. 

Matt Riley 29:22

And talking of that, by the way, guys: In March, Thailand played South Korea, and you've got South Korea ranked 22, Thailand ranked 101. And it says an awful lot about Thailand and Thai politics that you've got, you know, Song Jeong Min scored the first goal for South Korea.

Matt Riley 29:39

And they've got... they've got players in 10 countries. But with Thailand, they've only got players 19 of their squad are in Thailand. And there's only- only four other countries where they're in. And one of them is in Denmark and the Thai player is called Nicholas Mikelson. 

Matt Riley 29:53

So it's not the most traditional of Thai names! And the one that's in Belgium is at OH Leuven. So I'm not sure about whether that was a football related transfer. But you look at the way that they managed to equalize and then it was like the Alamo for the last 15 minutes. 

Matt Riley 30:09

This is now in the Bangkok Post today, or the last few weeks after the game. It's as if we won the World Cup in Thailand, you know, and then the second leg, if they get battered, it will be sack the coach. 

Matt Riley 30:21

Maybe that's not a Thai thing. Maybe that's a human being thing! 

Francesco Belcastro 30:24

That's a football thing. Before we close, can I ask you one thing? So if our listeners want to pick up a club to support in Thai football, what would be your advice? What is the hipster club? If Guy wants to support a Thai club! 

Matt Riley 30:37

Hipster. Yeah. I really like, um, Pathum United. Again, they're owned by Singha Beer Corporation. One of the stands is modelled after Villa Park. The chairman, Pavin Bhirombhakdi, the Bhirombhakdi family owns Singha Beer. 

Matt Riley 30:50

So, um, they are, he's incredibly well connected. It's a really friendly place. If you ask for a beer, you end up getting a, a tanker of beer! 

Francesco Belcastro 31:00

I like them already!

Matt Riley 31:01

I've been there where people have been told they can't bring water in, but we went in with a bottle of whiskey and soda and were perfectly allowed in. 

Matt Riley 31:08

These are the wonderful madnesses of football and it's really, uh, beautiful restaurants around because Singha Beer have got huge funds to spend on it. I would strongly recommend Pathum United. There's now a SkyTrain out there. 

Matt Riley 31:21

Um, you have a really good time. Uh, don't drive because you won't be able to drive back after you've had their, uh, their Singha Beer. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 31:29

For me, it depends on where your home is located. Just really choose some clubs near to your home. It's just support for your local club. That's it. 

Guy Burton 31:44

You kind of touched upon it already in terms of sort of talking about how the great desire in Thailand is to qualify for the World Cup, at least the men's World Cup and the potential for the women's. 

Guy Burton 31:53

But are there any other particular developments in Thai football and its relationship to politics domestically that we should be watching out for that we haven't touched upon so far? Arjin, if I could come to you first. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 32:06

Almost half of football clubs in Thailand was owned by politicians until now. Maybe it's decreased the number of politician owners has decreased because of many reasons and maybe I will explain later. But I just want to explain why the politicians need to own the football club in Thailand. It's because of the military coup in the 2006. The military government after that time dissolved many political parties and so many politicians were banned from election. So they tried to invest in the football club to gain the popularity for the local people in the province or in the local area. At the time that means so many politicians invested in football clubs and [that] led to the growth of Thai football league. After 2009 the football league in Thailand was growing very rapidly until now. Maybe until now after the pandemic maybe there are some decrease of popularity. But there are also a big growth compared for the past. And this is the role by the many politicians who invested in Thai football club until now.

Francesco Belcastro 33:43

That's something to keep still keep an eye on, yes. Matt, sorry, you wanted to...? 

Matt Riley 33:46

Definitely. No, I definitely agree. So one good example, there's two really. Newin Chidchob built a stadium in Buriram, the north of Thailand, which is a really impoverished area, which had one seat for every single person in the Buriram area. 

Matt Riley 34:02

So you've got a stadium where the entire population can go in, the 32 ,000 -seater arena. But when I was working for a provincial team, provincial Bangkok team called Suphanburi, the president was very open. 

Matt Riley 34:15

He said, Matt, this is the cheapest way for me to get votes for my province. I run this club, I buy this club, and we used to get 20, 21 ,000 people coming, and they would have voted for Top. So he's now in the Thai cabinet, minister of the environment, and it's job done, and he was very open about that because with the phrase, political football in Thailand, it's always political football. 

Matt Riley 34:39

And you'll often not know about it because they won't say it. It's partly a function of Thai hierarchies. The people that say they are the least well -connected are usually the most connected. And again, Newin controls the government. 

Matt Riley 34:52

He doesn't need to be in parliament. He's changed the law on cannabis. He's gonna change the law on gambling. Politics is always there, wherever you look. 

Guy Burton 35:03

That's really informative. Well thank you so much both of you for taking the time to talk to us about football in Thailand and its relationship to politics. Francesco I think we need to just sort of say a few things for the listeners don't we? 

Francesco Belcastro 35:14

Well, first of all, massive thank you to Matt and Arjin, it's been absolutely fascinating. Like most of our listeners, I didn't know much about Thai football, I feel like I learned so much. So now I want to watch a bit more of the league and get a bit more information on this. 

Francesco Belcastro 35:28

And maybe that's a great start, I think, in terms of learning about Thai football. I want to say, add one thing about transcripts. Didn't I? Didn't you want to say something about transcripts today? 

Guy Burton 35:41

It's something that we've got on... Because obviously the listeners are picking up picking up our episodes wherever they get their podcasts on, you know whether it's Spotify, Apple or wherever. But we do also have a website at Buzzsprout which is where we place our episodes each week. And as well as putting our episodes up there, we also have transcripts of the of each episode that we do. It's something that we've just been doing since the start. But just thought it'd be kind of nice for some listeners to know that if they don't have time to listen to the full episode, you know, that they can go to our website at Buzzsprout and find it there and just if they want to just skim through really quickly. Of course it would be nicer if they just listened to us as well! But sometimes you don't always have you know half an hour 40 minutes, but you do want to know what we've talked about. Yeah, Francesco, is there anything else we should say? 

Francesco Belcastro 36:30

Well, I mean, the usual things, Guy, the usual very important things that I always forget. So please like us, follow, share, whatever app you're getting the podcast in. Remember, if we get enough likes and if we become rich, Guy is going to buy Aldershot Town. 

Francesco Belcastro 36:47

We are very far from that goal, so please, please keep helping us!

Guy Burton 36:54

Based on this episode about the sort of the relationship with politics, I don't know, does this also mean I have to become MP for Aldershot Town?

Francesco Belcastro 37:03

Absolutely. [inaudible] And then, I mean, the other thing, it's to get in touch with us if they want to, if listeners want to let us know how we are doing, what kind of topics we should be covering, like which guests we should be bringing in, any feedback on how we are doing things. 

Francesco Belcastro 37:22

We are always, always keen to listen to advice from our beloved listeners. So get in touch with us. We are on all the main platforms. We are on Twitter, X. We are on Facebook. You are very active on LinkedIn. 

Francesco Belcastro 37:37

We are on Blue Sky. Not many people are, but we are. And what else? Where else, Guy? 

Guy Burton 37:44

We've got Facebook and an Instagram account as well. You can reach us there. But let's think about next week. What are we talking about next week, Francesco? 

Francesco Belcastro 37:53

Yeah, so the topic of next week's episode is football, politics and civil society. So we're going to be talking to Cas Mudde, and we're also going to be talking about teaching football and politics, because Cas has a course on football and politics at the university where he teaches, the University of Georgia. 

Francesco Belcastro 38:07

So yeah, looking forward to that one. And as usual, it's going to be Monday morning, listeners with their coffee... First thing in the morning, they're going to wake up and listen to your voice. Guy. What a better way to start their week, huh? 

Guy Burton 38:21

Absolutely. Anyway, listen, it's great to talk to you again this week, Francisco, and also thank you again to Matt and Arjin for taking the time to come and talk to us. So thanks, Matt. Thanks, Arjin. 

Arjin Thongyuukong 38:30

Thank you. 

Matt Riley 38:30

My pleasure.