*Meredith Brough * (00:00:01) - Hello, I'm Meredith Brooke, your host. Welcome to the world of Sweet Slumber, where we unravel the secrets to peaceful and restful nights for babies and young children and discuss the difficulties and wonders of motherhood. As an experienced mother of five, sleep coach, childcare expert, and instructor of sleep consultants, I bring a wealth of insight and knowledge to the table. In the show. I'll be sharing my baby centered sleep approach so you can sleep well and wake up feeling refreshed and energized and help your little one thrive every step of the way. I'll also teach you how to let go of parenting pressure and confusion so you can embrace everything that you truly love, especially your child. You deserve a rewarding motherhood journey. So let's dive in. Hello. Thanks for being here today. Today I'm going to share my thoughts on Shannon's interview. My last episode about postpartum illnesses. I'll also share some of the experiences I've had with my past clients. Postpartum. Anxiety and depression are such important topics postpartum illnesses in general.
*Meredith Brough * (00:01:13) - I've been really anxious to spread awareness and really help mothers especially, but parents in general, to be open to getting support and,, recognizing some of the symptoms in their themselves and even maybe dispel some of the negative feelings and. Well, lack of understanding. This is such an important topic. This goes to my heart. I loved interviewing Shannon. I learned from her again. Even though I took her training course years ago, I didn't expect that. I didn't realize that so much information had changed. And so honestly, if she does another training, I'll probably take that. But I did learn a lot from her in our conversation, and so I'm really excited about what I'm bringing to you guys now. So much has changed in the last five years since I took that training. And I'm talking about awareness. I'm talking about people being more tolerant and accepting, less judgmental and maybe even. Aware of signs, red flags, what resources are available, and even some of the resources that are out there have grown and changed quite a bit.
*Meredith Brough * (00:02:31) - There are people paying attention and studying women during pregnancy and postpartum. Our world needs to pay more attention to mothers and the challenges that they go through. Mothers are so important. The right they're raising the rising generation, which is huge. It's our future. Our jobs are pretty important and we need to be supported in this really important work. So I mentioned in the beginning that I've worked with women and men who had postpartum illnesses. It seemed like there were a lot more people struggling with and showing symptoms than before I took the training, but I'm sure that has everything to do with my awareness. Me watching for these red flags because I knew a lot more about them. That's why it's so important to have the training. So the first experience that I had. It was in the first six months in business and I really, truly knew nothing about postpartum anxiety or depression. And,, what happened is I went to this woman's house. We had a really great experience working together. I really liked her.
*Meredith Brough * (00:03:39) - I loved her kids. She had a little cute baby, was like two months old. And, you know, the kid. The baby was actually pretty easygoing and it wasn't a challenging family or scenario at all. And so I went in there and, you know, I could solve the problems. I knew what to do, and I could give them the solutions. Everything seemed fine. I went home and wrote up my plan, and I sent it to her. And about 2 or 3 days later, maybe even more, I got an email from her saying I am not doing well. I am so anxious and overwhelmed. I have not been feeling like myself. I have not been functioning well. I really feel terrible right now and getting your sleep plan just really put me over the edge and I, I don't know if I can do this program. I don't know if I can follow your steps. That was that was all she said. And, you know, I was pretty new then.
*Meredith Brough * (00:04:43) - And so hearing reading something like that was pretty crushing. I didn't have the same confidence or the same, you know, understanding that that it's not personal. People aren't trying to be mean or rude, but more than that. I paid attention and I understood that I had screwed up, that I had done something to make her feel worse. And so it was a very, very eye opening experience that I will never forget. And it's changed me as a person, as a coach, because it helps me be on the lookout for people who exhibit signs of postpartum anxiety or depression, and helps me be more sensitive because learning what happened was that I gave her too much. I. I told her too many steps. I asked her to do too much and that's what caused all the anxiety. So I have not done that anymore. I've been very careful to give people less to do. Each time I email plan. I don't do like most of the time. I don't do a very long plan for people to follow for a month to make sure that it's week by week.
*Meredith Brough * (00:05:50) - If I know that someone has postpartum depression or anxiety, I try to give them even less than usual. And I, you know, I tell the family, that's what I'm going to do and and to let me know if they need more, you know, let me know when they're ready, because I don't ever want to insult anyone's intelligence either. That's not usually the problem. The problem is just that sense of overwhelm and. You know, when we feel that way, we can be quite stuck, feel paralyzed and not be able to do anything. And I never want to do that to anyone. So it ended up being a good thing. And obviously we discussed it and she understood,, that I didn't know how she was feeling and that there was nothing on purpose. And, and, you know, we work together after that, but. Oh, it pains me to know that I created. You know, worse symptoms, worse,, feelings for her. And that I caused trouble.
*Meredith Brough * (00:06:46) - It was. It was actually really hard,, dealing with how I felt, you know? So now I'm just always cognizant of my client's needs. I find out how they're feeling on the intake form, and I am constantly on the watch for more clues, more red flags. If I see signs of postpartum depression or anxiety, here's how I handle the situation I tell the person about the symptoms that I'm seeing. I explain that they could be signs of postpartum depression or anxiety, and I, you know, explain what I need to. If they don't understand, if they don't really have a background on postpartum depression or anxiety or understanding, I encourage them to get the help they need from a trained therapist. And we discuss why that matters, which we talked about in Shannon's interview. They have the right approach. Again, it's like my experience or I needed to learn how to not overwhelm my clients and how to be very sensitive and careful and not cause more anxiety. And so a therapist needs training so that maybe they're just working with someone and they see the red flags, but also when they're treating someone, they know the right approach and they don't overwhelm people, and they actually know what's healing and what's helpful.
*Meredith Brough * (00:08:08) - Instead of, you know, a brand new mom going to a doctor and then looking back at their past and trying to heal, that is their first priority. They are going to be more in the present and look at what's going on now. And this person need validation. Do they need someone to listen to them? Yeah, that's that's usually what they need. They need a wellness plan. They need, some tools they need maybe the medication, or maybe there's something else that they can do to help them in a holistic way. So there's just some really, really important reasons. You want to go to a trained therapist. And we'll talk about that in a little bit. We talk about wellness, importance of sleep. Sleep a lack of sleep is the number one risk factor for developing postpartum anxiety and depression. But on the other hand, improving your sleep is the number one way to improve postpartum depression anxiety as well. So in these conversations with these clients, I share the PSI website which is postpartum dot net.
*Meredith Brough * (00:09:08) - On there they can find a therapist, learn more about postpartum depression, anxiety, and other postpartum illnesses. There's access to a 24 hour hotline. That's pretty cool. In our discussion, I explained how the therapist can help. I explain that if they don't want meds for treatment, the doctor will support them, but it will depend on their needs in their situation. We talk about the fact that there's meds now that have been studied and deemed safe for breastfeeding mothers, and that just keeps getting better. So I want to talk. Now that I've explained how I handle that, I want to talk about another case that's very memorable for me. I worked with a woman who had one of the most tender, loving hearts. She had a high need son and he was extremely challenging. He was highly spirited, highly sensitive, spirited, meaning active. He was very demanding of her time and attention. He was intense, opinionated. He expressed very strongly and loudly what he wanted, and he wanted to be held and played with all the time.
*Meredith Brough * (00:10:15) - It was pretty exhausting for both parents. He wanted to breastfeed, to sleep and stay attached to his mom through the night and through the naps, and she was trying to get him to sleep in his own crib and sleep in another room and sleep for longer periods at night. He was an older baby. As we work together, she shared some of the struggles that she had with her husband and. That's for more than one reason people feel safe with me. They want to confide things to me. And sometimes we. You know that that's a subject that comes up. But in this case, I was giving them homework to work on together. Then it became very difficult trying to get him on the same page and get him involved wasn't going very well, but she was also sharing her concerns about him. He was easily angered, frustrated with their son. He wasn't himself. He was sad and upset regularly going through some depression, seemed to be worried about his well-being and worried about leaving him alone to care for their son.
*Meredith Brough * (00:11:16) - It's not unusual to argue more and struggle in your relationship when you're sleep deprived. I see this a lot, even just becoming new parents, but in this situation it was extremely difficult for both of them and they were arguing more than usual. They were very sleep deprived, so that made them feel more grumpy and irritable. They didn't have the energy or motivation to try to get along and to take care of their child. It was just so, so hard. But there were other signs that dad was struggling with postpartum depression that haven't even gone into. We talked about his symptoms, and I encouraged her to talk to him about them. And he was open. He listened. They were both very interested in the statistics that I found at the time, which was back then, one in 6 or 7 men had postpartum depression or anxiety. It was almost as common for men as it was for women. We met when I met with Shannon last week. She said the rate was 10% right now, which is actually lower than that.
*Meredith Brough * (00:12:18) - But many of these numbers depend on reporting. People still don't recognize when they have a postpartum illness and they don't like to talk about it. So I don't know how long it will take till we really have the correct numbers. But that number was eye opening for them. I don't know all the details of this story because I respect people's privacy and I didn't pry, but I do know that he got the support he needed. They work together to take care of their needs. Their child kept them connected. They progress with their sleep and well-being, and they were a happier family in the end. I'm so glad that I recognized those signs and could talk to the mom about what was going on. She was very grateful. So I also worked with a mom. Another time. This was the second most memorable case that I that I supported. The mom of two little kids and honestly, both kids. One was a baby and one was a two year old. They were both very spirited and challenging, demanding, strong willed, intense.
*Meredith Brough * (00:13:17) - You know, that means when they start to cry, it's 0 to 60 in five seconds. But the boy was very, very active and the strong willed child was really, really hard on mom. I went in their home and I helped them to and. Had to help them with parenting and. Help them understand how to handle this tantrums and maybe take back the reins a little bit at bedtime, stuff like that. But after we worked together initially for a few weeks, I got a call one time and it was actually. Late at night. I want to say it was actually in the middle of the night. I don't usually have my ringer on., but I do have my phone next to me, and. She wouldn't have called unless she really needed me, so I responded. I answered and she was crying. She was in her closet, basically hiding and shut down. Things were so hard, so bad for her. She confided how much she felt like a failure, how sad she was, how she didn't feel like she could continue.
*Meredith Brough * (00:14:22) - I didn't have the strength or the energy to keep taking care of these kids. She felt broken and hopeless. And, you know, I was just there for her. I just listened and validated, and I helped her see the positive and what she was doing and how much she meant to her husband and her kids and, and just helped her feel better about herself. And I gave her some hope for the future, you know, with perspective and understanding that things are temporary. And there's always a silver lining. There's always going to be the sun that comes through the clouds, right? Well, in her testimonial, she actually talked about this more than helping her son sleep better. So later on, looking back, that's what meant the most to her. Was this experience speaking to me when she was at her lowest point. And I share that with you more for moms to know that, you know, there's other people out there who know how you feel. I've seen it myself. And also, I just want you to know.
*Meredith Brough * (00:15:23) - That those lows can be extremely, extremely hard. But just having someone there for you is is everything. You know, being able to turn to someone in your hour of need. Everybody needs a support system, whether that's a spouse, a friend, a parent, a sibling, even the 24 hour hotline on postpartum net. I want everybody to have something like that. Because you should never feel alone in your darkest hour. It's really hard to be a parent sometimes. I had another client reach out to me when she was at a low point. Her daughter was almost one and we'd actually work together. I helped her when her daughter was young. She was fine for several months, but at this time, when her daughter was almost one, she was going through a regression. It was a really tough developmental period. And. Well. She was also struggling in her life. She had a lot of factors working long, stressful hours, trouble with her marriage, and I think it was just the perfect storm.
*Meredith Brough * (00:16:27) - Plus, she was still breastfeeding. She was taking care of this little baby. And it's in that initial period when you are more susceptible to postpartum illnesses or are susceptible., she was really surprised, though. She and I mostly texted about it and she just said, I can't believe I'm feeling this way when my my my daughter is almost one. I'd never expected this, but, you know, just she had concerns. She was wondering if this was a postpartum illness. And I just told her, you know what, I thought and and encouraged her to get support. I told her she would never regret that and that she should do it for herself or her child. And she did. And she felt better within a matter of a month, you know, like life just felt more doable. And she felt more like herself and had more peace. You know, we don't always have perfectly happy endings, but what matters most is just getting that support that you need and and having the answers that you need in those hours and digging yourself back out of that hole, that pit that feels so hopeless.
*Meredith Brough * (00:17:31) - I had another client whose daughter was breastfeeding, and this little girl, at two years old was wanting to stay latched all night, treating her mom like a pacifier or wanting to feed through naps. She would not wean. Mama didn't have it in her herself to push and try to get her to wean. So she came to me for help with that and with,, help for the night sleep too. Well, since her daughter was two, she really, truly was surprised when I pointed out some of her signs of postpartum depression. She never. Even suspected a thing in herself, you know, that she could be going through something like that. But I could see the signs. And I was really worried about her. And that was eye opening for me because I hadn't worked with anyone with a child that age who had postpartum depression. So I'm sharing that with you because Shannon talked about that. She talked about how we can have postpartum illnesses later and later. Usually it's in the first year, but it can be longer.
*Meredith Brough * (00:18:31) - I've seen it before two, I've seen it after two. And I am not one to diagnose people, but I've seen signs in people that had three and a half year olds. So as long as you're breastfeeding, as long you've got all those hormones coursing through your body, the demands are there. And maybe you have some of the risk factors or family history. Everything's possible, right? We'll leave it up to the doctors to diagnose and and treat people. But just understand that. It's always worth looking into. It's always worth meeting with the doctor and finding out what's going on. So another thing I want to do in this episode is I want to share the signs of postpartum illnesses that I've seen the most in case in case it's helpful to anyone. So a couple of points before I read my list is,, these feelings and thoughts are common for new parents or maybe even seasoned parents. Your therapist or doctor should consider the frequency how deeply these feelings and thoughts affect you. They should look at how your functioning in your life and there's more factors.
*Meredith Brough * (00:19:37) - And another note there's usually a combination of signs, not just 1 or 2. Last note sleep deprivation can mimic postpartum disorders. I've seen it many times where people have a lot of these feelings and experiences that sound like postpartum depression, but it is only going on for a week or two, maybe a few weeks, and then they're fine once they get to to sleep better. Okay, so keep that in mind. And again, let your doctor or therapist do the diagnosing. If you're concerned. Don't play it off. Don't tell yourself, oh, it's only been a week or two because maybe there's other signs and symptoms there that you haven't noticed someone else would notice. And maybe you're not doing as well as you think you are, and you need more support. And if you will approach things that way, hopefully you'll be able to prevent things from worsening. That's what we want. We always want to get treated and get the help that we need before things get worse. So it's not really something to disregard or ignore or,, think you've got it under control.
*Meredith Brough * (00:20:42) - Even when you're a strong mom, sometimes you're vulnerable in your body or your mental health or weak, so it's okay does not reflect poorly on you at all. When you reach out for help, I promise. And that's one of the hardest things that we have to learn as parents, too, that asking for help is good and healthy does not show weakness. I get emotional sometimes. Sorry about that. So here's my list you guys are probably waiting for. So one. The first symptom that I thought of was feeling like you're on a roller coaster, constantly having ups and downs with intense emotions, mostly downs, a little in between. And if you have experienced this, you'll know what I'm talking about. I don't really need to explain too much about a lot of these symptoms, because if you're going through them and you experience them, then you'll know what I'm talking about. Constantly having ups and downs, it's probably more, you know, like I said, downs, but it's like one extreme feeling to the next.
*Meredith Brough * (00:21:45) - Those feelings are intense, and maybe it's not a roller coaster. Maybe it's one feeling that you have a lot sadness, regret, mom guilt, worry, fear, anger, resentment, disappointment. Maybe you're experiencing all those feelings. Maybe you're experiencing 1 or 2 another. Feeling that people experience quite a bit. Feeling numb to not having any ups and downs, not really having any highs or lows. It's more being in the middle. And maybe you're not even experiencing connection or love. That's really hard. It's hard to to be in that situation, but it's also hard to to not get to have any high. It's like people are just so confused why they're not feeling anything, especially love for your child or your spouse. Another one being in another world checked out, going through the motions, judging yourself very harshly with no grace or compassion. Not feeling like yourself at all. I could have put that one at the top of the list, because when I after my training in this area, I actually heard that the most.
*Meredith Brough * (00:22:52) - That was really, really common. Feeling like a failure accompanied by pain, sadness, hopelessness, not wanting others to help you. Feeling like you should be able to do it all even though you're barely functioning, worrying constantly, not being able to sleep even when the baby sleeps because of the worries and the fears and the anxiety. Checking on your child's safety, constantly not wanting to get out of bed or be around people for several days or weeks. A constant state of overwhelm. Being paralyzed with fear. So again, I mixed that list up of postpartum depression and anxiety symptoms because in my experience, a lot of times people have both. And then a lot of the anxiety symptoms kind of crossover with the depression ones and vice versa. So it's not for me really to tell you which one you have. I'm just sharing what I see a lot. If you're recognizing these signs in yourself, think about talking to a doctor, please. When I think about my clients who struggled with postpartum anxiety and or depression, I think of happy endings.
*Meredith Brough * (00:23:59) - So don't be afraid to reach out and get. The support that you need, because we all deserve our happy endings. And it made me laugh when I just heard myself say endings. Because when you have a new baby and your life is completely ahead of you, it's not an ending, but happy endings with working with me, that's what I mean. So we finish up a program together and I see this person in a completely different state. It's really beautiful. And maybe it's the ending of a postpartum illness, right? So after my clients got the support they needed and worked on a wellness plan, they found themselves worrying, less functioning, better sharing the care of their babies with others, actually sleeping while their baby slept, and feeling more at peace. They could go to work and focus. They could come home and enjoy family life. They didn't dread bedtime as much. They took better care of themselves and felt more joy. They saw their strengths and gave themselves credit. They gave themselves grace.
*Meredith Brough * (00:25:08) - They went from hardly functioning, feeling like a failure, overreacting, crying, or feeling sad or angry all the time, arguing with their spouse, constantly feeling overwhelmed and hopeless to finding a sliver of light or hope in a dark, dark tunnel that grew and grew and grew, they slowly felt more and more like themselves. They accepted their new identity as mother, father or parent and felt proud they enjoyed motherhood. I'm getting emotional again. I'm sorry because it's just so beautiful. They enjoyed motherhood and parenthood more. Sorry guys. They had more self-control. I handled their emotions better and that's a big one. I've never met a mom who didn't want to be in better control of their emotions and treat their family with the love that they want, that they feel inside and they want to express, like clients experience more highs and fewer lows, which makes everything easier. As you can tell, getting the support and treatments in place is vital. Sleep consultants have an important role to play, and I'm I'm speaking to you as someone who's either a mother who's looking for sleep consultants help, or a sleep consultant or a birth world worker.
*Meredith Brough * (00:26:28) - Interpret this the way you want to, but I just want to talk a little bit about the opportunities that we have in, in this field to make a difference in families lives. We can be watchful for postpartum illness signs be gentle, considerate and careful and guiding affected parents. Help them know who to turn to for solutions and support the wellness plans that they're given. Now I want to talk about how we can support those wellness plans. Helping parents improve sleep is a key factor because sleeping better can change everything. Research proves that sleeping well can prevent postpartum illnesses. Quality sleep decreases the symptoms and intensity of postpartum anxiety and depression and other postpartum illnesses. And it makes perfect sense. The four pillars of health are sleep, nutrition, exercise, and mental health. All four of these elements matter. We need to balance them. They support each other. I know from experience that when I'm eating well, moving more, and my mental health is in good condition, I sleep better. I also know that sleeping well, exercising and eating nutritionally improves my mental health.
*Meredith Brough * (00:27:40) - Unfortunately, it's hard to see the importance of any of these areas when you're in survival mode suffering, feeling lost or drowning, and anxious thoughts. Many women forget how fragile they are. They don't realize how important they are to their loved ones either. But people do reach a breaking point. Eventually, they realize that they can't go on being sleep deprived, or they're afraid of what will happen if they sleep any worse. So exhausted parents reach out to people like me for help with sleep. When they come to me, I focus on more than just sleep. And these are the other ways that we can support parents as sleep consultants. I can encourage parents to meet their essential needs, make time for themselves, get out of the house and go places. Spend time with other people. Work with their spouse as a team and ask for help. I give them tools to soothe their anxiety and feel at peace, like affirmations, and actually help them identify what their triggers are. I teach them important insight about their children, how to meet their needs, and they feel more patient and compassionate.
*Meredith Brough * (00:28:44) - They become better parents. They see their children thriving from all of the work they've done over time. They feel a lot better about themselves. These transformations are the icing on the cake. Sleep and the other pillars are the flour, the sugar, the baking soda, and the other ingredients. I want to emphasize that feeling better is a step by step process. One piece of life improves. Then you feel more normal, then another piece falls into place, and so on. Until one day you realize you're doing it. You're tackling this mom thing with confidence, feeling good, enjoying your child and your experiences, living in the moments and feeling hopeful about the future. This has been some of the most important work I've ever done. Helping moms who have postpartum depression, anxiety, or even just helping them see that they have it and getting the help that they need. If you're a mom or a parent with some of the signs of postpartum depression or anxiety or signs of other disorders that Shannon mentioned in our interview, please get in touch with a trained therapist.
*Meredith Brough * (00:29:48) - Be willing to talk to them. Just take that first step. It's the only one I want you to think about. Find out if you need support or rule out your concerns. You won't regret it. Do it for yourself. Or do it for your baby or your partner or loved ones. Whatever motivates you, focus on it and take that first step. And if you're interested or willing, let me help you with your sleep. If you're a birth world worker, a sleep consultant, or someone who supports mothers, please look into the PSI training on postpartum net or find a similar program. Take the training. It's so important to learn everything you can about perinatal or postpartum mental health and wellness. You'll find that you're able to help clients in a whole new way, and they will thank you for your encouragement, your guidance, and your thoughtfulness. You don't have to be afraid of opening up your mouth and saying these things that feel scary. Telling people you see the signs. It's so worth the effort and overcoming those feelings of anxiousness that you might have.
*Meredith Brough * (00:30:50) - But a way to impact families. So thank you for being here today and for listening to my stories, learning about the different signs and how postpartum depression and anxiety are treated. Thanks for spending time with me today. If you're interested in working with me as a sleep coach, look for the Sleep Temperament Quiz in the show notes. And I'm talking to parents. If you're interested in learning more about my baby centered sleep coach training course or my baby Centered Sleep Mastermind for sleep consultants and coaches, click on the links below that are labeled for you. Until next time, I'll see you soon. Thanks for listening to the Sweet Slumber podcast. We hope you enjoyed today's show. Before you go, please leave a review and hit subscribe and have a great day!
