Meredith Brough (00:00:00) - Welcome to the Sweet Slumber podcast. I'm your host, Meredith Brough. Whether you're a seasoned sleep consultant, a sleep coach, a birth world professional, or a mother aspiring to enter this fulfilling field of sleep expertise, you're in the right place. I'm here to teach you my baby centered solution so you can help exhausted, struggling parents reclaim their sleep and help children thrive along the way. I'll teach you how to find harmony in your life and avoid burnout. Build a thriving business and become a financially independent woman. My goal is to help you fall in love with sleep coaching and never look back. Let's embark on this journey together. Her dreams are sweet and the work is rewarding. Stay tuned for a show that will transform your business and the lives of those who touch. Hello. Thanks for joining us today. I've been looking forward to my interview with Ashley Walters for a long time. She's one of my students. She's a friend, associate, and I guess she's a past student because she's, you know, graduated and moved on.
Meredith Brough (00:01:05) - Hi, Ashley. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. So Ashley has a really great story, and she's going to tell us a lot more about it. Ashley Walters is a wife and mother of three boys, one of which has autism. She focuses on gentle, holistic methods to empower children with strong sleep habits. She gives parents tools that will last a lifetime. When Ashley works with parents, she focuses on reducing parental stress, home and bedroom environment. Sensory needs, medical factors that affect sleep like sleep disorders, nutrition, reducing anxiety and I'm sure a lot more so Ashley and I, we met in my Facebook group for sleep a long time ago, and she took my course about a year ago. And just a side note, I used to think, and this is not even that long ago. I used to think I could support autistic children with a little training or experience, maybe a little mentoring from Ashley, because my methods and approach seemed so perfect for them. But then I realized how complex autistic children's needs are, how complex their sleep is, that there's so many factors to consider.
Meredith Brough (00:02:10) - And lastly, parents deserve an expert who's very knowledgeable and experienced to help them when they have an autistic child, especially Ashley is all that. Plus, she's a mother who's been there and she has done so much to learn to become qualified and certified. You know, it's it's amazing all the things she's done, not just taking my program, but multiple programs and and so much research. On top of that, she was very successful in helping her son and others with their children's sleep. So with that said, we're I'm excited to have you. I'm excited to have you explain some things to my listeners who may be completely in the dark, but with sleep, with autistic children's like, or maybe they have a child who's autistic and they're like, oh my gosh, I've been waiting for this. So thank you for being here again. Thank you. How long have you been on this journey? Since he was an infant.
Ashley Walters (00:03:01) - He's always had issues. So over five years it's been how long we've been on the journey for sleep.
Ashley Walters (00:03:08) - And it took about three years or so to actually kind of really, really figure it out. It was much easier to figure out, to understand what was going on once he had the diagnosis settled. Was he about 18 months?
Meredith Brough (00:03:22) - Okay, so it was a really long wait.
Ashley Walters (00:03:23) - Yeah, it was kind of giving him some time to to just try to see if maybe this was just a kind of a freak accident or, you know, just a fluke. or I was over looking at can.
Meredith Brough (00:03:36) - You tell us about your personal story and the journey that led you to this point?
Ashley Walters (00:03:39) - It was definitely when my son was born. He immediately had issues, not just with sleeping, even though that was that was the biggest giveaway for him, but it was also some GI issues. He had to gnosis that went undiagnosed because they couldn't find it quickly enough, and it took a lot of driving to hospitals and, and specialists and things like that. And, you know, a lot of overnight stays to try to figure out what was wrong with them.
Ashley Walters (00:04:12) - And it just eventually or at six weeks, he got it, they finally found it and they took care of it the next day. After that, I thought sleep issues would be not an issue. And it turns out it that wasn't the case. So it was just a continual headache and it just seemed like it kept getting worse. No matter what we did, it would be taken two hours to fall asleep, and then he'd wake up like an hour and a half later to only be up for four hours in the middle of the night and then get him back to sleep, and then he would only be asleep for maybe another 2 to 3 hours, and then be up to really stop taking naps at 18 months. And it was just very, very rough. And. Took a long time to get it figured out with him. And so a lot of research and trial and error and, you.
Meredith Brough (00:05:09) - Know, don't you think is like growing and developing and maybe being older helped too. And things did come together for you?
Ashley Walters (00:05:16) - Actually, no, I don't know.
Ashley Walters (00:05:18) - I mean.
Meredith Brough (00:05:19) - The moms believe that's just one of the keys, right. So I'm glad for this.
Ashley Walters (00:05:23) - And it was like even as he progressed with his gross motor skills, which he was doing great on, it was just still wasn't making much of a difference with him. And then when he got to climbing out of the out of his crib, that's when it really became even worse. So but it only took a few months afterwards too, after that to really figure it out and nail it down. Then we got him to sleep all night, every night, and it was just the best thing in the world.
Meredith Brough (00:05:59) - Yeah, and I can think back to certain things that you are very cautious about, careful about firm about with your boys. And so I know that, you know, you figured out what was really going to be the most effective for him. And I'm sure that for the most part probably works for other people, too. But it's not always the same, right? When you work with other families, there could be certain factors that are more important than others.
Meredith Brough (00:06:24) - Do you always kind of follow what you've done with your boys, though?
Ashley Walters (00:06:26) - I try to, because that that really seems to work with other autistic children as well. But again, it just really varies from kid to kid. They have their own issues, their own environment, and their own sensory needs, along with nutritional aspects and GI issues or feeding issues, whatever those may be. Yeah. So it's a whole bunch of different factors that, contribute to how I approach one child over another.
Meredith Brough (00:06:59) - Yeah. Well, these things I'm thinking of, I'm sure you can guess. I'm thinking about your bedtime routine and just how, you know, there's was. How do I put it? There's, you don't you don't put up with anything, and you're not, you know, you're not going to just spend and be chill like you're serious about bedtime and that there's a lot of reasons for that. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about that?
Ashley Walters (00:07:22) - I'm just very, very serious about bedtime routines for them.
Ashley Walters (00:07:26) - I use certain words. I do certain actions to let them know, you know, even though they already know at this point, because I've been doing it since they've been babies. Yeah. Don't even try to, like, push me on it because it's not going to happen. You can say you don't want to go to bed. Sorry. In the bed.
Meredith Brough (00:07:45) - What are the things, the stories that you said before is like them trying to push back and then not even really trying that hard, or even one of your boys, is it? You just say, I'm going to bed and he just goes, and he he's like really predictable. It's amazing because your hard work like giving me a hard work that's not just natural.
Ashley Walters (00:08:05) - Yeah. No it's not. And yeah, that took a lot of it would have taken a lot more conditioning had I not done that. Been so strict about it from day one. It's always been the same, always done the same way. Whether the time has been flexible or not, it's always been the same process and it's really let them know what to expect.
Ashley Walters (00:08:28) - There's no question about it. This is happening no matter what. You know what times like with daylight saving times or emergencies or whatever, they know this is going to happen tonight, tomorrow night, the next night. And I think that really, really helps.
Meredith Brough (00:08:43) - Yeah. And it also gives them that sense of security and safety. And I'm sure especially with your autistic son change and you know, not having structure it could probably cause problems. So isn't that one of the factors.
Ashley Walters (00:08:57) - It is. It's it's a big factor. But with other autistic kids like they may not be able to do the exact same routine that I do that I like, like baths. If it gets them too worked up, then that has to be put in the morning or earlier in the afternoon. Or if they hate brushing their teeth or their hair, whatever it may be, it may not be able to be done right at that bedtime routine. So you have to kind of come up with another transition to do to substitute that bath.
Ashley Walters (00:09:32) - Yeah.
Meredith Brough (00:09:33) - That sounds good. Well, I think that it would be good to just explain really quick how close an age or two boys are, because I keep talking about your boys and we didn't talk about that in the beginning. It's it's significant. It's it's an important factor when it comes to what you're doing at bedtime and the workload that you have every day.
Ashley Walters (00:09:51) - My, littlest ones, I have three boys. My littlest two are only ten months apart. One. My last one was preemie. It was six weeks early and had a long ten day stay in the NICU, which was not fun.
Meredith Brough (00:10:08) - But. And your oldest is 16.
Ashley Walters (00:10:10) - My oldest is 17.
Meredith Brough (00:10:11) - I have a 17 year old son. And then how old are the two younger ones? They're both.
Ashley Walters (00:10:15) - Five. And then my one is turning six. And soon.
Meredith Brough (00:10:20) - Oh my gosh, it's amazing.
Ashley Walters (00:10:23) - Okay, so they're Irish twins.
Meredith Brough (00:10:25) - Irish twins. It's always like you're my hero. It's just for me. Between having twins and Irish twins.
Meredith Brough (00:10:32) - The people were either one or my heroes. But it must have been really tough to raise those two boys, especially at the same time. Especially with one having autism. And I know it still is tough.
Ashley Walters (00:10:43) - It was very tough, especially since my husband worked at the time. He worked for about an hour and a half away and he worked the second shift, so he was never there for or he wasn't there when he worked. during bathtime, things like that. Yeah. So that made it so much harder.
Meredith Brough (00:11:05) - I think it's important that we talk about this so that people know. You really do know what it's like, you know, the toughest struggles that these moms have. And you know that I primarily work with the spirited, highly sensitive. And some of my clients kids have been autistic. We didn't know because they were so young. But this, you know, my clientele, my my following, my audience, they have some of the toughest struggles. And I think it's just so it's always so reassuring and validating to know that you're not the only one struggling.
Meredith Brough (00:11:33) - Other people have these really tough struggles raising their kids, and it just makes you more relatable if someone wants to work with you. Yeah.
Ashley Walters (00:11:40) - Yeah, you definitely been there. You've been there. I've been through all the different medical things with kids. Not severe medical things, but just some tough stuff, ones that really interfere with life and living. And you have to totally change lifestyle.
Meredith Brough (00:11:59) - For just soup consulting. In your own words. The whole explanation, I guess.
Ashley Walters (00:12:06) - I knew it was a issue with autistic children, seeing as there's so many diagnosed and it seems it's been getting increasingly more whatever the diagnosis grand total number is, you take 80% of those. All those kids are having some kind of sleep issues. So I know what it's like there. It's rough. It is rough as an easy word to say. Actually.
Meredith Brough (00:12:34) - I had to work so hard to find your answers. Right. And the sleep consultant too.
Ashley Walters (00:12:39) - Yes, I did, and it was not. Not for us, not for me or how I wanted to do things.
Ashley Walters (00:12:47) - And I knew there was other ways to do it that would be more suitable for myself in my situation and my son. So yeah.
Meredith Brough (00:12:58) - But what sparked the idea of I'm going to do this myself, I'm going to be a consultant.
Ashley Walters (00:13:02) - I'm just wanting to help, help people. Like because. Sleep is just as important. Equally important as nutrition is for you. because everything I've seen it. I know what a sleep deprived child looks like. And it's not fun. It's not pretty how they act. Everything about it just makes the situation so miserable. and as the transformation of what it does afterwards, you know, so much transformation within even a short amount of time, like a couple of nights. And you can really, really see it. You can see it physically. You can, you know, they start picking up things better. They have more life to them, I guess, for lack of a better word.
Meredith Brough (00:13:49) - Yeah. So wonderful. So tell us about the training. Tell us about the research, the different certifications you have.
Ashley Walters (00:13:55) - My certifications through IBCCS, and the Institute of Pediatric Sleep and Parenting for Special Needs, and through Sweet Slumber (Baby-Centered Sleep Consultant Certification).
Meredith Brough (00:14:08) - Are you going to keep taking different trainings or do you feel really good about where you're at now.
Ashley Walters (00:14:13) - I may continue trainings down the line, just right now. I don't feel really necessary at this moment because I do so much, research independently.
Meredith Brough (00:14:25) - Yeah. By the time you came to me, you'd already done a lot of your research and even your certifications. Right.
Ashley Walters (00:14:31) - No, actually I did those to like try to enhance that, to really get and get it into the autism thing. Yeah. So that way I was just kind of in confirmation of what I already know. And so it just helped guide me, make sure I was on the right path. Yeah.
Meredith Brough (00:14:52) - In my program, I was very focused on babies and toddlers. What's your focus like age wise? What do you love to do?
Ashley Walters (00:15:00) - I prefer, you know, about two years old all the way up until 18.
Ashley Walters (00:15:05) - Really I'm comfortable with that. Worked with, you know, couple older kids and teenagers and and that's been really, really interesting because a lot of them have been able to give me like give the parents who can give me the feedback. But it's nice to be able to have them more understanding than a two year old. So it makes it a little easier. But I like working with the 2 to 18 years old.
Meredith Brough (00:15:32) - That's awesome. Well, your experience with my program was a little different. I'm circling back again, if you don't mind, as you were helping me overhaul it and change it. And so like, you went through it deeper probably than anyone and experience. Was it helpful to have like a community to meet with. And you're in my mastermind now. How has that been helpful to you?
Ashley Walters (00:15:52) - Very, very much. Very helpful to be able to collaborate with others and get opinions and, you know, kind of a different perspective on it. Just because I'm very much geared towards what I, who I work with in the area work within, sometimes it helps kind of stepping out of that and giving extra, you know, extra insight really helps.
Meredith Brough (00:16:20) - Yeah. And then the cheerleader group that you have isn't that awesome? Do you love. Yes. Yeah.
Ashley Walters (00:16:27) - Yeah. Absolutely. Love having like, the different experts come in and and talk and everything and just having a good community to go to for whatever even just event not even related.
Meredith Brough (00:16:44) - It's so funny because I have the same experience out of all this as you guys do, because I work with clients and I've had struggles in the last year. Right, like shared with you guys, my struggles. And I just love how we get to know each other and we feel safe and we're able to develop friendships and just be there for each other, but also see what everyone's learning. And then even if you don't need that right now, it's still adds to your perspective and it still adds to it, you know? It's really cool. Is there anything that you got out of my program that you didn't really expect to?
Ashley Walters (00:17:17) - I love your math. I love the methods that that were very unique and very, very friendly and gentle and not what a lot of other people do.
Ashley Walters (00:17:30) - And that's been really refreshing. Yeah.
Meredith Brough (00:17:35) - And I love hearing. Like in your bio you talk about wanting to use gentle and holistic methods, and it's really neat to get under the surface with you and find out how you see things differently. I don't think you're alone in the autistic mama world. there's there's probably quite a few people who want things to change. the way that school works, some of the programs, I don't know, all the, you know, all the terminology that you do, but you want to talk about that just a little bit. You know what's different about you in the way that you want to approach working with autistic children compared to, you know, the schools or what's been traditional.
Ashley Walters (00:18:19) - Just really focus on. Really prefer to focus on. On their needs in addition to how mom and dad or, you know, parentage is doing with it in home environment. Those are things that are kind of not looked at in schools or in therapies. They're very narrow where I look at everything, and then I break it down into sections and try to like get to each section to get the achievement of sleeping better.
Meredith Brough (00:18:56) - Yeah. So do you want to tell us just a little bit more about what a program looks like with you? Because you have one program, right? Because you know it works. What does that look like? Like the way the program is formatted. The structure.
Ashley Walters (00:19:10) - It is a one on one for six weeks, to about 90 minutes. Assessment. We fill out forms and after three years and everything, then we'll meet and we'll talk and go through it step by step and clear up anything that may be confusing or uncertain. Then it would be unlimited supports for the six weeks every week, there will be a one hour zoom meeting to go over everything that they're trying. They're doing, what's working, what's not, and make any adjustments as needed. That sounds.
Meredith Brough (00:19:52) - Wonderful. I remember when you sent me your program, your offer or whatever you want to call it. You were like, what do you think? And I was like, this is amazing because I know that your clients, so many details, so many factors, it probably takes some time to go through everything.
Meredith Brough (00:20:06) - And you don't want to overwhelm people and you're able to help people with their parenting. You're able to help them with the structure and the boundaries and so much more than what people think when they think sleep right?
Ashley Walters (00:20:20) - Yeah, it's it's very complicated. It's very, very complicated. Yeah. So yeah, I don't want to, like, give everybody everything I have right from the start because then that's just way too much. It's a lot of information to take in, and then you get overwhelmed and you just kind of stop. Yeah.
Meredith Brough (00:20:42) - And when you get to work together for a period of time, you can give it to people as they're ready. And maybe each family is ready for something in a different time. Maybe they've already worked on that and they need something different. So isn't it just wonderful to be able to customize to people's needs?
Ashley Walters (00:20:56) - Yes, and I definitely like doing that. That's actually a fun part for me to customize it for that child because it's that's awesome. Taking taking time for one specific kid, you know, not just the standard, which is another difference between schools and therapy.
Ashley Walters (00:21:15) - It's just kind of the standard profile, I guess, and you have to fit into that whether you like it or not. Not not with this. Yeah.
Meredith Brough (00:21:25) - That's very reassuring, I'm sure. Yeah. So is there any like, differences that stand out to you in your mind of, you know, maybe a traditional approach or even a sleep consultant who doesn't know how to help autistic children specifically? Is there just an example of something that you would do differently? Or, you know, just one thing that needs to be approached differently?
Ashley Walters (00:21:47) - Going slow, making any going very slow. When you're making these changes, it's going to backfire on you. If you try to make a bunch of changes all at once, it can very much derail the whole thing. Any progress you've made, it usually done usually gets all undone very quickly.
Meredith Brough (00:22:08) - Yeah. That's a that's a big point. That's an important point. Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley Walters (00:22:15) - They don't do well when it comes to A lot of them don't don't tolerate change very well to begin with.
Ashley Walters (00:22:21) - And if you're trying to change something especially like drastically or a bunch of it or a bunch of changes at once, it's going to really, really has the potential to blow up in your face.
Meredith Brough (00:22:34) - Yeah. Well, maybe from personal experience, the sleep consultant that wasn't for you. Is there something else that stands out to you that just was a bad fit for your situation?
Ashley Walters (00:22:46) - At the time? I was very, very, very impatient. We have been dealing with this for a very long time and had and, you know, there were other factors that were. I'm trying to not, like, pinpoint Cameron. Okay. There are other factors that were just. We're very pressing and just. I needed it faster and.
Meredith Brough (00:23:12) - Well, I know that some of your experience experiences with her have kind of fueled maybe your passion for doing things different, you know, wanting to do things better. Is there anything that you think would be different and appealing to people that you'd like to share? You know what I mean? Like, maybe people don't want to work with a sleep consultant because they've heard this.
Meredith Brough (00:23:33) - Maybe they don't want to work with the sleep consulting because they're worried they're going to approach something in a terrible way that just doesn't work for you or your autistic child. Is there anything that stands out to you in your memory?
Ashley Walters (00:23:43) - Yes, I think it was too narrow. I think it was too narrow of a way to look at it, and it was a more of a one size fits all sort of thing. It wasn't really custom for, you know what, I signed up for what I did at the time, and I just kind of wanted it to be more even, like in a group sessions. I still wanted it to be a little more customized for our needs and things like that. And, you know, well.
Meredith Brough (00:24:12) - If you sign up for a group coaching session and you've never done one before, you probably wouldn't even know if this was going to be a good fit for you. Right. That was another thing, too, for you.
Ashley Walters (00:24:21) - Yeah, that is true. Yes.
Meredith Brough (00:24:23) - Yeah.
Meredith Brough (00:24:25) - Well thank you I know that's it's personal so it's hard to maybe talk about. So thank you for sharing that. I guess there's one other thing I'd really like to hear specifically from you. And that would be is there any like signs parents should watch for when it comes to their baby or toddler sleep? That might help them understand that they should keep an eye on their child. The doctor should keep an eye on their child. Maybe they want to get assessed. I don't know if it's a list or a few things, but you know, stuff that stands out to you that maybe you see a lot in young babies. I would say younger babies and toddlers that might point to autism.
Ashley Walters (00:24:57) - Definitely not sleeping or having it broken up. Babies should not be awake for four hours every night. It should not take two hours or even much longer than like 30 minutes at most to put a baby to sleep. So that's pretty much the biggest giveaway when it comes to sleep. waking up too early, taking too long to fall asleep, and waking up in the middle of the night, missing milestones or doing them extremely slowly or late or early are all kind of various signs.
Meredith Brough (00:25:33) - Yeah. And just a side note for me is you also want to rule out sleep disorder so that that's not, you know, like that's a still can be a complicated issue. It's not always an easy fix. But if you can find out if your child has a sleep disorder and then sleep gets better, then these things that actually talking about are not lasting. Right? And so you're talking about some of these things that are lasting. You see for a long time, right. Yes.
Ashley Walters (00:25:59) - They won't stop. Like even if they have an ear infection or they're going through teething or a regression or a growth spurt, it will still persist even after that. Yeah.
Meredith Brough (00:26:14) - Oh, I just know that you struggled a lot in those first few years. And I'm sure that's where the compassion and the passion come from in you is like if you want to make that easier and better on people right.
Ashley Walters (00:26:28) - Yeah. And that's definitely important. Lack of sleep helps you be a better parent, helps your kids so much more.
Ashley Walters (00:26:36) - And in therapies and in life and whatever it is, they're doing school or anything like that.
Meredith Brough (00:26:41) - Yeah, I've heard.
Ashley Walters (00:26:42) - That definitely helps marriages.
Meredith Brough (00:26:45) - Yes it does. So do you have some tips for my listeners? If there's anyone out there who has a child who is autistic or. Yeah, because you like working with the older kids. So I guess it's safe to say, you know, that they're autistic and sleep is a struggle. Do you have any simple tips? Just 1 or 2 things people could take away and think about or work on?
Ashley Walters (00:27:04) - Be consistent. slowly though, if you're never been consistent before. Always be consistent and be flexible even in a rigid kind of structure. Yeah, like if you're crunched on time and you're routine, then you know, if your goal is like doing two books every night, but you're super crunched on time or you have an extra few minutes, make the book shorter or longer, make the bath slightly shorter or longer, but still continue to do those things.
Ashley Walters (00:27:39) - No matter.
Meredith Brough (00:27:40) - What. Yeah, that's great advice. Thank you. And I agree with that. Yeah. And when it comes to your work in what you do, do you have any encouragement or words of wisdom or tips for other sleep consultants?
Ashley Walters (00:27:57) - If anyone if it gets too overwhelming and they can't or they can't figure it out or anything like that. Yeah, referral would definitely be ideal. Yeah.
Meredith Brough (00:28:10) - Well and specifically. In my mind it's send send families to Ashley. There are there just aren't that many people out there that are specialized in this way. With the experience of a mother and so much research, I just think that your clients or customers, or just people who are interested in working with you, will be safe with Ashley. So I highly recommend that. Thank you. So, Ashley, how can people find you and also get in touch with you?
Ashley Walters (00:28:42) - On Instagram at Autism Sleep Solutions.
Meredith Brough (00:28:47) - Okay. Can they communicate with you there too, so they can send you a message or an email that way? Absolutely, yes.
Meredith Brough (00:28:54) - Okay. Perfect. So Autism Sleep Solutions, that's all you have to remember. I think it's such a smart handle. So that's on Instagram. She has resources and posts and and things that you can look up. So look up Autism Sleep Solutions. And please send people to Ashley who are struggling with their autistic children's sleep. And this one last thing I want to say before we say goodbye to Ashley is that Ashley really cares about these kids and these families. She's compassionate and passionate. She's experienced and knowledgeable and the perfect answer to your autistic children's sleep challenges. Thank you, Ashley, for being here and sharing your story and explaining more about sleep for autistic children.
Ashley Walters (00:29:37) - Thank you Meredith. I appreciate you having me on.
Meredith Brough (00:29:40) - You're welcome. And to my listeners, thanks for being here with us today. Until next time. I'll see you soon. Thanks for listening to the Sweet Slumber podcast. We hope you enjoyed today's show. Before you go, please leave a review and hit subscribe and have a great day!
