Episode 58- "For Mothers: How to Stop People-Pleasing & Protect Your Boundaries" with Sage Olson

In this episode of the Sweet Slumber podcast, host Meredith Brough and guest Sage Olson, a licensed therapist and coach, delve into the issue of people-pleasing among mothers. They discuss the origins of people-pleasing behaviors, the importance of setting boundaries, and the impact of these behaviors on personal identity and stress levels. Sage shares personal experiences and offers practical advice on overcoming the guilt associated with saying no.

They emphasize the benefits of prioritizing self-care, such as improved quality time with children and reduced stress. Sage also promotes her podcast "It Doesn't Martyr to Me," her coaching services, and an upcoming group for new moms. The episode concludes with a reminder of the importance of self-care and setting boundaries in motherhood.

Topics

• People-pleasing in motherhood
• Root causes of people-pleasing behavior
• Damaging effects of people-pleasing
• Importance of setting boundaries and reclaiming one's identity
• Difficulty of saying no and managing guilt
• Cultivating self-compassion and self-love
• Impact of people-pleasing on individuals and motherhood
• Modeling healthy boundaries for children
• Prioritizing quality time with children
• Resources and support for mothers in setting boundaries

Find Sage on her website or check out her podcast!

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Keywords
Sleep consultant, people-pleasing, motherhood, setting boundaries, reclaiming identity, self-care, self-compassion, self-love, healthy boundaries, quality time, patience, understanding, empowerment, It Doesn't Martyr to Me, Sage Olson Coaching, therapist for moms, sleep expert, Baby-Centered sleep consultant certification program

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Check out the links below & add your name to our waiting list so you can join our next session in the Fall of 2024.

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Transcript

Meredith Brough (00:51)
Hello, I'm happy to be here with you today. I've got a guest here and we're going to have a discussion that I'm so excited about. This is Sage. Hi Sage.

Sage Olson (01:02)
Hi Meredith, how's it going?

Meredith Brough (01:05)
It's good. I'm just really looking forward to hearing from you and sharing you with my listeners because I know they're going to learn a lot, I imagine. So Sage Olson is a clinician and coach who supports mothers. She's a licensed therapist, coach, and fellow mom with a passion for empowering moms to start to find their identity outside of motherhood by setting boundaries, ditching people pleasing, and finding balance.

Sage Olson (01:15)
Hopefully, yeah.

Meredith Brough (01:32)
Sage brings a unique blend of professional expertise and relatable insights to her sessions, working with her clients on an individual and group basis. When she's not behind the mic recording her own podcast or in session with a client, you can find Sage spending quality time with her family, spending needed time in the mountains or in an intense game of Settlers of Catan, is that how you say it, with her husband. Is that it right? Okay.

Sage Olson (01:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes.

Meredith Brough (02:01)
Obviously I don't know the game but that's cool that you guys have something in common.

Sage Olson (02:04)
I'm sorry.

Yeah, yeah.

Meredith Brough (02:11)
How long have you been playing that together?

Sage Olson (02:14)
Oh, that's been since we were dating. It's an intense like strategy game, kind of like risk. Yeah, it's like risk. It's a very, yeah, it's a very intense strategy game. It's caused a number of fights. We get very intense with it, but we love it, so.

Meredith Brough (02:20)
Really?

Uh huh.

No, I don't know what you mean, because my husband's favorite board game is aggravation, which why? Why would anyone like a game with that name, right? And the whole time we play it, I'm like ready to kill him. So he plays with my kids because I'm like, no.

Sage Olson (02:39)
No!

Okay, I've never played that game, but any game called aggravation, I'm like, listen, I'm already way too competitive. I don't need to play a game called aggravation to be like, I'm pre aggravated already. Seriously. Oh my gosh.

Meredith Brough (02:57)
Yeah!

I know what you mean. My husband, I used to play Farkel and in that game, the mean people actually yell Farkel while you're rolling your dice to try and get you to screw up. He used to do that to me so much. And yeah, there's games I avoid for a reason.

Sage Olson (03:10)
Ugh.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, there's, yeah, it's caused some issues. There are times that I'm like, don't talk to me.

Meredith Brough (03:25)
I'm better than this.

That's so funny. I love this.

I love this. This is a great way to get to know each other. The things that set us off. Well, the real reason we're here today is not just to giggle and compare stories, but to talk about people pleasing in motherhood. And I really love this topic, maybe some people are listening and they're going, oh man, I hate this topic or.

Really already feel guilty enough. But we got to talk about it guys, because this is one of those things that's underlying that we don't even notice. I would say you agree.

Sage Olson (04:00)
Yeah.

Yes, oh yes, especially with moms. It's very, it does seem to be at the root of a lot of things, of boundary issues, of mom guilt, anxiety, all of that stuff. So very, very important, and I think any, most women, but especially moms, can relate to this at least a little bit.

Meredith Brough (04:24)
Yeah. And.

And it tends to be the reason we get upset. We get burnout. We forget our self care. So yeah, I'm sure we'll talk about all of that. So you just maybe define what people pleasing is for us.

Sage Olson (04:42)
Mm-hmm.

So people pleasing is when, basically the simple explanation is it's when you say yes to things when you really want to say no. And you overextend yourself and put the needs of others before your own. So even if you find yourself really stressed or overwhelmed and somebody asks you to do something and in your mind you're like, no, that's the last freaking thing I wanna do on this planet. I can't handle that right now. But on the outside you're like, yeah, no problem.

Oh, I'm totally happy to help. It's fine. So that's, yeah, that's people pleasing. Pretty much putting the needs of others over your own consistently.

Meredith Brough (05:29)
Have you been there? Have you been through this? Have you done this before?

Sage Olson (05:33)
Oh gosh, yes. Oh, I used to be, I'm so much better than I used to be, but there are still times when I have to like reign it in, like, oh, it's coming back. But it's when, honestly, when I first started, so I'm a social worker, so I got my master's of social work. So I started out with my bachelor's of social work, and I was doing a lot of case work going into people's homes.

I worked hospice for a while. So you're having very mentally and emotionally draining jobs. And then I was doing my internships and then I started dating my husband, my first year as a therapist. So I was new to it. And honestly, it got to a point where I was just running myself into the ground. And I met with one of my mentors.

Each week I would have a meeting with my mentor and we would kind of go over case studies and clients and he would give me feedback. And I just told him, I was like, I'm drowning. I can't do this. And he's like, okay, let's talk about it. Let's talk about boundaries. What are you doing? And you know, I wanted to be the cool therapist. And I was working with teenagers and all the teenagers, their parents always, they wanted to be in contact with me 24 seven.

And I felt so bad that if I told them no, then they would panic, and then I would be a bad therapist, or I would get in trouble, or whatever. I just wanted them to like me, and I wanted to be good at my job. And so I was like, sure, you can have my cell phone number. Sure, yeah, email me any time, anything. I was like staying late to work. I was going into work at like eight or 8.30, because it was a 24-7 treatment center. So like...

I was getting calls like nine o'clock like, hey, one of your kids is having a hard time. Okay, I'll come in and talk to him. Like it just, I was spread so thin that my mentor sat me down. He's like, you either need to set some boundaries and learn to say no, or you're, he's like, you're gonna burn out within your first year. So you can either, he's like, you can either set boundaries and say no and be good at your job, or you can be overwhelmed and shut down and go find another career.

I was like, oh, okay. So when it was put like that, it was, yeah, yes. He was very blunt and I appreciated that about him. But then I started to realize it was also affecting my relationship with my husband. He was my boyfriend at the time. I wasn't able to have quality time with him and my parents, like everything. And so at that point, it just kind of became a necessity.

Meredith Brough (07:58)
Wow.

Yeah.

Sage Olson (08:23)
And so that's kind of what started my journey of setting boundaries, setting firm boundaries and saying no, and I had to start small and then just kind of got more confident and empowered from there. And yeah, like I said, I'm way better than I used to be, but it's still a struggle. My husband has to remind me, he's like, you're allowed to say no. Like, okay, thank you. So.

Meredith Brough (08:54)
That's a good thing you have them on your side. Oh my gosh. Well, I think that you've illustrated a lot, you know, what it is and what it looks like and, and how we all do it. And I think people will run into this in personal life and relationships for, with your family, with your spouse, with your boyfriend, whatever, and then obviously at work. And so I've got like stories piled up in my head as well, but before we get into any more of those stories.

Sage Olson (08:57)
Yes, yeah.

Meredith Brough (09:22)
Why do we do this? Where does it come from? What's the root? Do you know what I mean?

Sage Olson (09:27)
Yes. So this is one of those things where it could be any number of things. So I always tell my clients, I'm like, okay, let's talk about your childhood. And I kind of cringe every time I say that because that's a very stereotypical like therapist thing, like tell me about your childhood. But it's a stereotype for a reason because there's a lot of validity in it. So a lot of the root of people pleasing it

Meredith Brough (09:47)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Yeah.

Sage Olson (09:56)
can either come from parents. I see this a lot with people, kids who are the oldest, and they were expected to do too much and had too much responsibility, and they were always praised for being the good one. You were always praised for like, oh, you're so level-headed for your age, or you're so responsible. And so you learn early on, like, oh, this is a good thing, and you start to base your identity and your worth around you being helpful and you being useful.

Or on the other end, I've also seen it with clients whose parents or families, they didn't feel like they got enough attention, and so they would try to overcompensate for, okay, if I'm useful and if I do all of this and if I'm really helpful, then maybe I can get some affection, which is just heartbreaking. So one question I...

I'll ask my clients to kind of get them thinking on this as I'll ask them, what emotion or feeling were you not allowed to feel growing up?

And that always catches them off guard. And then once they think about it, it's, it's a very revealing question. A lot, a lot of my clients will say, well, I wasn't allowed to express any sadness. I wasn't allowed to express anger. I wasn't really allowed to express anything, but being content and being happy. And so, so that's.

Meredith Brough (11:25)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (11:30)
That's a big part of it. And so with that, sometimes it can come from the fact that you fear rejection from people and you just wanna be accepted. And so you overcompensate by helping everyone around you because it's your way of feeling like you can control if others leave or not. And you're so worried that like, well, if I say no, or if I'm not helpful, then they're gonna get offended or they're gonna get mad or they're gonna leave and then they're gonna leave and I'm gonna be all alone.

And so it can also stem from some of those attachment issues and fear of rejection and those deep seated insecurities. And then lastly, another thing, and I feel like all of these can play into each other. It's a very complex thing. Oftentimes, and I'll see this, I'll see this. Yeah, yeah. And I can see this with, I see this with moms a lot.

Meredith Brough (12:22)
Mm-hmm. And we can all relate to all these things.

Sage Olson (12:30)
It can be a way to cope or distract yourself from your own issues or problems by constantly keeping yourself busy. Because if you're busy helping other people and focusing on their problems, then you never slow down and you're always busy, then you don't have to confront your own problems and deal with your own stuff. And no one's gonna shame you for that. No one's gonna be like, hey, you're being too helpful. And so it's like,

Meredith Brough (12:41)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sage Olson (12:59)
this is a valid way. And so I see that a lot with my clients and I'll kind of have to call them out of like, okay, what are you trying to distract yourself from feeling or from facing right now? And usually that question right there just kind of unravels a whole host of problems and that we can kind of get to the heart of what's going on.

Meredith Brough (13:21)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (13:27)
So that's kind of a long-winded answer, but those are some ideas to kind of start to do some self-reflection and ask yourself to figure out what the root of your personal people-pleasing is, because it's very individual as well.

Meredith Brough (13:27)
Yeah, no, I under sequence.

Thank you. There's a lot to think about. There's a lot there for all of us to unpack for sure. I could relate to so much of it. And I was also kind of associating what you just said with one of my past podcast interviews where a lady was talking about her cancer and how she now coaches people of cancer and these women are still.

Sage Olson (13:50)
Yeah.

Meredith Brough (14:08)
people pleasing and taking care of other people, even though it's time for them to stop what they're doing, slow down, focus on their health, focus on their wellness. And they're still at the bottom of the totem pole that, you know, chronic, I don't take care of myself syndrome plus the people pleasing. And I'm just, I'm so, I guess, a little bit relieved to hear that there is a root cause why we do this can be solved and we can get underneath it and, and heal. Right. So that it's not just.

Sage Olson (14:20)
Mm.

Mm.

Meredith Brough (14:38)
being mindful, it's not just stop, it's not just set boundaries. There's probably some things to look at underneath, right?

Sage Olson (14:45)
Yeah, yeah, and a big part of it is doing that self reflection and figuring out where it stems for you. Because once you start to recognize the root cause of it, it's like once you see it, you can't unsee it. And so as get start on this journey of setting boundaries and, and saying no, it's, it's going to be a lot easier for you to do that once you

Meredith Brough (14:55)
Mm-hmm.

Sage Olson (15:12)
kind of realize what's going on and why you're doing it in the first place.

Meredith Brough (15:19)
I just love that. It's so empowering. It really is. Well, you talked in your story about some of the problems and why you needed to change, but I'm sure there's more. So can you tell us why people pleasing can be really damaging?

Sage Olson (15:34)
Yeah, it's interesting, because I feel like each stage of my life, I learned something more, and it was like another level of setting boundaries, another level of people pleasing. So like when I was dating and then I was engaged and then I was married, that was a whole other set of boundaries with my spouse, with my in-laws, with my parents. And then when I became a mom, oh, whole other level,

At that point, it was like, no, this isn't like, this would be nice to have. This is not negotiable. This is necessary. And part of the reason why it's so damaging, well, one, it causes a lot of stress and overwhelm, and it leaves you feeling helpless. Like you're just like treading water, and you can't really, like it makes you feel like you're doing a lot of things and nothing all at the same time.

Meredith Brough (16:11)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (16:34)
Um, and another, another reason is you start to lose yourself and you start to forget who you are and what you like because for so long you've just gone with the flow, you do what everyone else does and you're like, oh, it's fine. It doesn't matter to me. You know, and then you start to lose your voice and start to lose like your hobbies and what you actually like. That's a big thing.

I'll explore with my clients of like, do you even like these things that you're doing? Like one of my clients, she, one of my clients, she would go on like weekly hikes with her partner, her fiance, and she was like talking about it, and every time she mentioned hiking, she kind of just like, ugh. And finally I was like, do you like hiking? Do you even like this?

Meredith Brough (17:07)
Thank you.

Sage Olson (17:30)
She was like, um, and like she had to stop and think about it. Like she had never actually thought about it. And she's like, uh, I mean, not really. I think it's exhausting. Like it's not very relaxing for me. I'm like, okay. Okay. So maybe, maybe we could start suggesting stuff that you like. And it was like this whole journey of like, let's explore some hobbies that you like. You don't have to, don't have to like what other people do.

And that's so that's one of the reasons why it's so damaging is you start to lose yourself and you start to forget like what you actually like and your hobbies and you know it's like what restaurants do you actually like to eat at. Oh, I don't know it's been a long time since i've actually like. picked or had an opinion on that I just go where everyone else is going, you know.

Meredith Brough (18:21)
Yeah. And this just breaks open a whole bunch of other things. It really does, doesn't it? In my mind, I'm like, oh, boy, we have to see ourselves. We have to know what we like. We have to have interests. We have all these things that like light us up. You know, people just forget what lights them up and they find themselves miserable. And other people are happy. But what about you? You matter, too, right?

Sage Olson (18:30)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and what happens is we have a tendency, so with people pleasing, whenever I talk with my clients about like, okay, we need to start best setting boundaries, start saying no, in their mind, they have this image of like, it's one extreme or the other. You're either like a doormat people pleaser or you're like ice queen, super mean, super rigid, super closed off. And it's like, there is a healthy middle ground, I promise. Like,

Meredith Brough (19:14)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sage Olson (19:19)
And so when I'm talking with my clients that are people pleasers, a lot of times they're just naturally really caring, nice people. And so they start to panic because they think that I'm telling them change your personality, quit being so nice. I need you to go over here in this direction. I need you to be really closed off and mean. And there's that anxiety because that's not authentic to who they are. And so.

Meredith Brough (19:34)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (19:45)
But what can happen is if you don't learn to find that healthy middle ground and you stay too long in this direction of like extreme people pleasing, after a while you get burned out and you just don't have the capacity to say no anymore and you get really overwhelmed and then you're going to find yourself swinging vastly to this other side. So you might get burned out and then someone asks you to do something.

Meredith Brough (20:11)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (20:14)
that normally wouldn't be a big deal and you just kind of snap and you're just like, no, leave me alone, I can't do that. And then you kind of swing over to the other extreme and you might spend some time there where you're just mad at the world, tell everyone to back off, quit talking to you or you might just shut down, it depends on your personality. I tend to go with the snappy thing but some people are nicer and just shut down. And then.

Meredith Brough (20:22)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (20:41)
You know, and then you start to feel guilty because you're a nice person and you're like, well, I shouldn't do that. And then you kind of start to go back over to the people pleasing side. And so you just kind of like pendulum swing between both extremes. And it leads to other relationships and people around you. They're not sure what to expect of you or why. And the relationship feels like very unpredictable.

Meredith Brough (20:41)
and

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sage Olson (21:09)
Not to mention, you're not sure what to expect of you. And you're not really in tune of what you're feeling or why. You just know that you're lashing out and feeling guilty and then helpful and then guilty and then helpful. Like it's exhausting. And that's, yeah. Yeah, oh my gosh. Oh, it's exhausting. I, and I have to catch myself when I start to like pendulum swing over to the other side.

Meredith Brough (21:24)
You're describing me in my work.

Sage Olson (21:38)
because I do, I get like really snappy. It's weird, I get like angry and sad at the same time. Like I'm gonna throat punch someone, but like I'm gonna cry about it and feel bad afterwards. Like it's, it's so weird.

Meredith Brough (21:51)
I'm the kind that shuts down. Like I just can't do anything now. I just can't do anything now. I'm going to give everything and then I just can't do anything. So that's where I swing back and forth and I'm working on it.

Sage Olson (21:54)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, my, my poor husband, he's learned to like, recognize that. And so, and he will, he'll just like, chat me, call, call me out. There was, there was a time a few weeks ago, we were making dinner and, um, I'm gluten free and we live in a small town with a grocery store that doesn't have a whole lot of gluten free options. So anything that, anything involving gluten, we usually have to make ourselves.

with my gluten-free flour. So we really wanted to do potato gnocchi soup, or gnocchi soup or whatever. And so we had to make homemade gnocchi. I don't know if anyone has tried that, but it's stinking annoying. It is so annoying. It's so many steps. And it's honestly not that good. I don't really like it, but my husband likes it. So I was like, okay, let's make gnocchi soup. So I'm over here trying, you have to like.

Meredith Brough (22:41)
No.

Sage Olson (22:56)
roll it out and then like cut it in sections. And then you have to like boil those sections. Anyways, I'm just getting annoyed that there's so many steps for what should be a simple soup. And we have the TV, we have Bluey going on in the background because Bluey is the best. And then there's, our kitchen floor is dirty and I don't have socks on. So I'm like, you know, when you like step and you can like feel like crumbs and dirt under your feet, like, ugh, I hate that.

Meredith Brough (23:24)
I'm going to go home.

Sage Olson (23:26)
And then I go to turn around and my belt loop got caught on one of my cabinet door handles and just like, oh, and I just lost it. And then my husband comes up and he's like, what can I help with? Which was a reasonable question. And I just snapped him and was like, I don't know. And just like, kind of like threw down the bowl and was like, I don't know, just leave me alone. And he was just like, okay. And just kind of looked at me like.

Meredith Brough (23:32)
Oh no.

Sage Olson (23:56)
excuse you. And so I had I had to like take a deep breath. I was like, Okay, sorry, I'm just overstimulated. There's a lot going on. And I'm really frustrated right now. And he's like, Okay, so he got my daughter who was also running around screaming grabbing at my legs. So he got her turned off the TV, even like swept the kitchen for me. I was like, Okay, now we can buy.

Meredith Brough (23:59)
I'm sorry.

Sage Olson (24:26)
But there's so many times where I find myself like, and I get to that point where I'm just like, done, done. And I will, I'll just snap. I wish, sometimes I wish I was that person that just like shuts down, because I feel like that's like a nicer thing to do, but I'm not. I have too much attitude for that.

Meredith Brough (24:44)
It's not better. I think I probably do both. I think we can all relate to that. We snap at people when we're overstimulated and frustrated and stuff, but the shutting down thing isn't good because especially when it happens in work, you know, you can tell if you look at my social media right now that I'm recording this middle of October in case anyone's wondering You know, I haven't posted for weeks I'm just like I did too much last month with my podcast and now I just have nothing to give but

Sage Olson (25:05)
I'm sorry.

Meredith Brough (25:14)
Oh, well, it's not ever too late to learn and grow. Right. So and I just want to share my main memory of having to learn about people pleasing and boundaries was as a young mom. And I definitely must spend some time talking about why that's so hard and prevalent in motherhood. But just a quick example first, there was a lot of people who seemed to need me. They need my friendship. They need my help.

Sage Olson (25:14)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Meredith Brough (25:44)
I already had a daycare and multiple children and people just knew that I was really helpful and I'd be there for them. And they would either want play dates or they would want me to watch their kids. And this happened all the time. And first of all, we're all different when it comes to what we can tolerate. Maybe it's your social bucket. Maybe it's over stimulation. For me, it's...

Sage Olson (25:49)
Oh, of course you did. Okay.

Meredith Brough (26:10)
I have ADHD and I am highly sensitive. I feel like maybe it's about overstimulation or just needing a balance of downtime. So if I'm busy, and then being a mom with young kids, demanding your attention and your care 24 seven. I mean, that by itself is enough to just drive you out of your mind. Right. But then you have other people needing you. I used to say yes to everyone all the time. And I remember my mom telling me that I mattered, too.

Sage Olson (26:18)
Mm-hmm.

Meredith Brough (26:39)
And I needed to take care of myself and I had to slow down and that I needed to pencil in on my calendar that something was going on, meaning my self care or downtime, and then stick to it and tell people I was busy at that time. And maybe that was a wimpy way out because I could have just said no, but it was a good starting point for me of being able to at least hold to what I needed. Right? Because not everybody respects vagaries. Is that even a word?

Sage Olson (26:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Meredith Brough (27:09)
you know, if you say I'm busy, my friends were so bad, they'd be like, with what? So it was still tough, it was still tough, you know? But anyways, I definitely started noticing how much it was burning me out at that stage.

Sage Olson (27:15)
Mm-hmm.

I love how you brought up, like your mom gave you great advice. Sometimes you have to pencil that stuff in and treat it like it's an appointment that you can't reschedule. And even if like people are like, hey, can you do this? No, I have an appointment at that time. They don't need to know what kind of appointment it is. They don't need to know. They don't know any other detail. That's one thing I tell clients when you're setting boundaries.

Meredith Brough (27:46)
Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Sage Olson (27:53)
give a very decisive, straightforward answer and don't feel the need to over explain it because then that invites opinions. So if someone asks you, you can just say, no, sorry, I have an appointment at that time. I can't. You don't need to be like, hey, so I'm like really on this journey of like self care and I'm trying to take care of myself. So like, I really want to do something for myself at that time. But like, if you don't need if you really, really need me, it's okay. Not a big deal. I can totally risk it.

Meredith Brough (28:03)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hahaha!

Exactly.

Sage Olson (28:25)
You can just say, no, sorry. Yeah, and if they press, and if they keep pressing and keep pressing, just keep saying, be like, sorry, I have an appointment at that time. It's not negotiable. And honestly, if they keep pressing, then at that point, you kind of just distance yourself. Because you don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

Meredith Brough (28:40)
Yeah. And sometimes you have to.

Yeah, I was about to say sometimes we have to shut off most of it.

Yep. And I've had to do that too. I've had to distance myself immensely to the point where we were barely friends. You matter. We matter so much more than we let ourselves think.

Sage Olson (28:51)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Meredith Brough (29:05)
worth it.

Sage Olson (29:08)
Yeah, I love what your mom said of like, you're important too. Cause you are, of course you are.

Meredith Brough (29:16)
Mm-hmm.

Well, obviously we believe it or we wouldn't get so much angst or like suffer the way we do. Inside, we're just like, wow, I feel terrible and this is not cool. And like it's your it's your heart. It's your gut. It's your body telling you this doesn't work for you. So we just need to stop and listen.

Sage Olson (29:36)
Yeah, one question I'll ask my clients to kind of help them start to practice some of the self-compassion and self-love. Because that feels like a very foreign, ambiguous concept to a lot of people. Like, hey, you need to love yourself. You're like, well, I do love myself. I'm like, but do you really? Let's unpack this here. How are you treating yourself? So one thing I'll ask them, I'll say, OK, I want you to...

Meredith Brough (30:01)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (30:06)
picture someone that you love more than anything. This can be your spouse, your kids, parents, sisters, brothers, whoever, just someone that you love and you want nothing but the best for. And I'm like, okay, so now I want you to picture that person that you have switched places with them and you are in charge of their life for the next 12 months. Knowing what that person...

likes and their hobbies and what is important to them? What would you do for them that in the next 12 months, their life is better than before? And when I ask that they can usually spout off like, oh, well, I know this person really wants to, really wants to start eating healthier. So I'm gonna do that. I know that they really wanted to get better at this hobby. So I'm gonna do that for them. That all of this stuff.

And so then I'm like, okay, now let's switch it. Let's say that person is now in control of your life. And what do you think they would do for you to make sure that your life is better 12 months from now? And they always have to think about that. That catches them off guard. And they're like, I don't know. And then they start to think about it. They're like, well, you know, and then we can start to think about like, okay.

Meredith Brough (31:20)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (31:30)
setting boundaries is usually a huge one. Starting to say no, maybe distance yourself from certain relationships that aren't serving you or identifying some relationships that might be more draining than not. And so when I, so I'll tell them, I'm like, if you have a hard time putting yourself first, I want you to think of it from the perspective of.

If my, for me, it's, I think of like, hey, if my husband was in charge of my life today and he wants nothing but the best for me and he loves me, what would he tell me to do? What would he want me to do? He would want me to take a break. He would want me to have, you know, and so it's kind of like asking from that perspective of someone else that loves you and leading with that until you can get to the point.

Meredith Brough (32:10)
This is a great question.

Sage Olson (32:24)
Because if you don't love yourself, you're not gonna be motivated to do any of these things. Like if you have like your honorary neighbor that lives next door and I ask you like, hey, what are you gonna do? What would you do for your neighbor that you barely know and don't even really like? How would you help them over the next 12 months? I'd be like, I don't know, not a whole lot. Like you're not super motivated to do much, right? So if you don't love yourself.

Meredith Brough (32:42)
Yeah.

So true.

Sage Olson (32:53)
If you don't love yourself and you don't feel like you're worth it and you don't even really know who you are, it's really hard to find the motivation to do some of these things and to start setting these boundaries. So sometimes fake it till you make it and think of it from the perspective of someone who does love you and someone who does want that. What's best for you?

Meredith Brough (33:16)
Is it possible to do all of this without feeling guilty?

Sage Olson (33:22)
Listen, that's...

Meredith Brough (33:23)
Ha ha!

Sage Olson (33:27)
And then, especially when you become a mom and that mom guilt comes in, it's a struggle. Honestly, a lot of that when my clients start to feel guilty, I ask them, I said, I want you to focus on what is being gained by you saying no. What are you gaining? Because sometimes we have a tendency to be.

Meredith Brough (33:50)
Yeah, I like that.

Sage Olson (33:52)
We have a tendency to focus on what is negative or what we're losing or we worry about losing relationships or people judging us and all that stuff. So I ask him, okay, what is being gained by you saying no and that kind of flips the script a little bit. And then

Meredith Brough (34:08)
Mm-hmm.

Sage Olson (34:14)
And then start small, kind of what we said, start small and realize that there can be a middle ground. It doesn't have to be either or. So like one of my clients a few weeks ago, her daughter, one of her good friends was like, hey, can you give my daughter a ride to daycare every day? So she wanted to give her a ride to daycare like every morning at like 7 a.m. or something.

And she's like, I don't know what to do because that's a lot. I can't handle that, but she's my friend. I want to be helpful. And so I was like, okay, is there a little bit of a middle ground here? Could you maybe offer to do it like, Hey, on Mondays and Wednesdays, I can take her. Or I can do it for a couple of weeks. And then after that, I can't like, try to find that middle ground. So you're still being true to yourself. You're still being nice and kind and helpful.

while also taking care of yourself and not burning yourself out.

So, and then lastly, there's some questions that I'll have my clients ask themselves when they start to feel guilty. A lot of the times when we feel guilty, it's we get in our head and we start to project feelings onto people for, yeah, oh, I do this all the time. Like you might think like, oh my gosh, they hate me, they're so annoyed right now. And the other person might be like, okay, and then move on and you're still like.

Meredith Brough (35:22)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

I'm sorry.

Sage Olson (35:52)
overthinking it and dying about it. Like, I guarantee that happens to me so much. And my husband's so good. He's like, I don't I think you're overthinking this. I don't think they're upset about this. I think it's just you like, okay, well. So, so I'll have my clients, I'll be like, okay, is there substantial evidence for your thought? substantial evidence. So is this just you thinking it? Or do you have any evidence?

Meredith Brough (35:54)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (36:21)
Is there evidence contrary to your thought?

Are you attempting to interpret this situation without all the evidence?

And then will this matter a year from now or five years from now? That's a big one. Cause so many of these, these small requests that we say no to or that we feel guilty about it's like, is this going to matter a year from now, even like a week from now?

Meredith Brough (36:43)
Yeah.

How about a week? Right?

Sage Olson (36:55)
Yeah, yeah. You're like, No, it's not that serious. It's okay. And yeah, the biggest one, though, is just focus on what you're gaining by saying no.

Meredith Brough (37:11)
I agree. Like in my mind, I was thinking, what do I usually tell people about this? It's really just focusing on the results and how you feel and how you're going to feel. So same thing.

Sage Olson (37:22)
Yeah, yeah. And it takes practice. Give yourself, like start small, and like any muscle, the more you exercise it, you're gonna get stronger. And start, you know, as you start saying no to some of those small requests, you're gonna start to feel empowered and it's gonna snowball. And it'll get easier and you'll get better at kind of talking yourself down and talking yourself through that guilt.

Meredith Brough (37:47)
Well, how?

Yeah, how does this project, you know, this process of stopping people pleasing, how does it make us better moms? I mean, I can imagine, but I have a feeling you have some insight that I haven't thought of. I love it.

Sage Olson (37:57)
Hehehe

So...

First off, I think it's fantastic to model for your kids what setting healthy boundaries and what saying no looks like. Model for them like this is okay, you're allowed to do this. You know, you're allowed to feel anything other than perfectly happy and perfectly okay all the time. You know, you're allowed to take time out for yourself. And then two, it's...

Meredith Brough (38:18)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (38:42)
That analogy that everyone uses, like you can't pour from an empty cup. When you start to say no, and you set boundaries, and you have clear boundaries on like, and you start to prioritize what's important to you, you start to realize that your time with your kids is more quality time. So if you're constantly saying yes, and you're being pulled in every, in all directions,

Sometimes it can be really hard because even if you are there with your kids and you're present with them, you don't really feel like you are because they're off plane and you're answering emails on your phone, you're calling a friend, you're following up, you're texting and you're just doing stuff and then at the end of the day you're like, I don't know. I don't know how much like quality time I spent with my kid. So being able to prioritize and set boundaries, it allows you to just be present.

Meredith Brough (39:35)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (39:39)
Stop feeling like you have to multitask everything. Put your phone down if you can. Put your phone down and just focus on your kids and focus on one thing at a time.

Meredith Brough (39:45)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Well, and when you're not running crazy, like you just described, you're not going to be stressed. You know, if you're stressed out and you're frustrated and you're anxious and trying to keep up, then obviously you're not going to be the best mom. You're not going to treat your child the best either.

Sage Olson (39:58)
Yeah.

Yeah, you're gonna have a lot more patience with the tantrums. You're gonna have a lot more understanding with the meltdowns. You're not gonna be like me. I'm a lot less snappy. And yeah.

Meredith Brough (40:19)
Yeah, and if you're present, you're actually giving your child, you're filling their cup. So they're going to have less of the tantrums and behavior issues because they're not begging for your attention. Right.

Sage Olson (40:26)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, one of the interviews I did on my podcast a few weeks ago, she shared an analogy, like a visual that I loved. She talked about like the champagne towers where they have like the wine glasses all stacked up. And she's like, when you pour from the top, it starts to overflow and it trickles down to everything else. And so she's like, if you don't have anything left over to give to your kids.

Meredith Brough (40:52)
Yeah.

Sage Olson (40:57)
their cup isn't going to be filled either. So you need to focus on filling your cup. And that's, and I love that visual. I think of that all the time. I'm like, okay, if I don't have anything leftover, anything overflowing, then there's nothing that's, that I have left to give.

Meredith Brough (41:16)
Wow, that's really good. That's really good. Well, I understand that we are just on the surface here with what we're talking about and that there's a lot more that you discuss with your clients, a lot more tools you give them. So on that note, first of all, thank you. This has been amazing. But second, will you tell my listeners how they can find you? Yeah, of course. Sorry for not giving you a second there.

Sage Olson (41:26)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Yes. No, you're good.

Meredith Brough (41:42)
Can you tell my listeners where they can find you and get more? Cause I know you have a podcast. We got to talk about that. Cause they're going to want to hear you. They're going to want to learn more from you.

Sage Olson (41:49)
Cheers.

Yes, so I have a podcast. It's called It Doesn't Martyr to Me. Plan words, it's a fun plan words. My mom and sisters, we use it with each other. It's like a fun way to call each other out whenever we find, yeah, like whenever we're trying to find a place to go out to, like, where do you want to be? Oh, it's fine, it doesn't matter to me. And we're like, oh really? It doesn't matter to you, are you sure? That's funny. So.

Meredith Brough (41:58)
You too.

I love it.

I'm going to go.

That is cool. Ha ha.

Sage Olson (42:21)
So it doesn't martyr to me is my podcast. And then Sage Olson Coaching, that's Olson with an O-N at the end. Sage Olson Coaching, I've also got a blog that I update weekly. And then you can find I've got a free guide on there. I'm starting a group in January of a group of new moms and it's gonna be a 12 week group. We're talking about all of this stuff. People pleasing, boundaries. (This was recorded a while ago)

finding your identity, all that fun stuff. So I'm really excited about that in January.

Meredith Brough (42:54)
and love.

I love the idea of a group setting for this. Oh my gosh. The way we have so much to talk about and also like support and encourage each other through it. Woo, that's awesome.

Sage Olson (43:02)
Yes!

Yeah, I love the groups because I feel like I, every single group, I will learn something and I get little insights from other people and their experience. And also motherhood in and of itself can feel very isolating. So having a group like this, it really helps build that community, which is huge.

Meredith Brough (43:17)
Yes.

Hmm.

Thank you Sage for being here and for sharing all this wisdom and an insight that I'm just kind of knocked off my feet is going to give me some things to think about because I've struggled in my business, especially to set boundaries. There's a sense of guilt. There's the sense of just wanting to give everything to people and change their lives. And that's a great feeling, but not at my expense, right?

Sage Olson (43:54)
Yeah, yeah, thanks for having me. This is, like you said, we're just scratching the surface and this is something I could talk about all day, every day. So I loved it, I had fun.

Meredith Brough (44:04)
Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Well, don't forget to connect with Sage on Instagram at @Sage Olson Coaching. A little emphasis on the O-N there. Visit her website, www.SageOlsonCoaching.com to check out the blog. Tune into It Doesn't Martyr to Me podcast for your weekly dose of inspiration and empowerment. And thank you for being with us today. Stay tuned for another episode next week. Until then, we'll see you soon.

Sage Olson (44:22)
Hahaha