12 - Menopause Help (& Celebration?) | The Sleepy Sisters Podcast

Being neurodivergent and going through menopause earlier than our peers really threw us for a loop! In this episode we're sharing what helped us through it, and how we're coping on the other side. Take heart, friends, it won't last forever! 

Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
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Transcript

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Hello, hello. It's been a minute. We needed a little spring break for six weeks. I'm Elizabeth brink. Sarah Durham. We are sleepy sisters. I realize I have called this the sleepy sisters. But we are not the only sisters that exist. We have another one. But also I'm sure many of you out there. So anyway, we promised to say a few more things about menopause. And then because we are both dealing with menopause, we paused the podcast, I had a realization this morning that this is also what happened with my email newsletter if you follow me there, which you probably don't. I totally had this series going where I was talking about medication management stuff, and my menopause journey. And I think I wrote two pieces of it and then dropped off and had complete strangers emailing me asking like if they missed the third installment and I was like, Do you know, you left us dangling off the cliff. Let's mark our words. We will never again do a two part series or a multi part series because it causes something to happen. Well, never is. Okay. Is probably that because we were also discussing the fact that this is also kind of in line because we don't really prepare, we just show up and talk. Sometimes it's the moment where impulsive and we just promised things. And so this one thought important, I guess probably because we said we were going to not just that we said we're going to do it because there's stuff that we could talk about that no one really cares. We were follow up. But we were so passionate about all of the things that go down. And then it was like, Oh, cool. Thanks for the awareness. Yeah, nothing. Y'all can't go out and do your own research. Because we would still expect you to do that. Even after listening to us, please, please do. We are not experts. We are not doctors. We are our experience. We're just humans. Yes. Yeah. Hey, on that note, I also listened back to the end of the last episode to be like, what did we promise? I realized that I also said that there was some good things about metal. Okay, yeah, your face y'all can know. I mean, yeah, okay. Yeah. Okay. I'll say a few good things about it. Um, well, I grew up. Yeah, I always got stuff. I just I have to. Oh, yeah, there is some good stuff. Yeah. Okay. It's coming to me. I'm living it. So it's not like it's not readily available in my brain. Right? Yeah, right. That right, I am a little further out. So I think maybe it's easier for me to retrieve anyway. So a lot of rambling. Okay. So I want to start by saying what I said at the end of the last episode, which is find medical providers and also like therapists and coaches and whoever you work with in your life that supports you in managing day to day life, find people who are at least open to learning about the middle aged body and mind. Like the aging, I should say, the aging human, even if they themselves don't have a ton of experience in it, finding people who are willing to acknowledge that, hey, this is a really big piece of context around how you're doing, how you're feeling how you're functioning, is a really important part of the whole process. And midlife is just being around friends and colleagues and other kinds of people in your life, other than just your doctors who can support you. And so, yeah, find people who can surround you full transparency. We've had to pause this recording twice now, but he was having technical issues. So episode sounds a little choppy or jumbly. It is not our novice editing skills is that we are trying to make sure we're connected. Okay, so yes, finding find your people. Yes. and I are we going to get into the doctor part as far as like, yeah, we can go for it. So I want to say to that, you know, one of the things about being a human with ovaries is that a lot of the medical community and the emphasis has not been put on a lot of research especially being people who are aging with ovaries. And so, you know, one of the things I think that we both probably would want to emphasize is that when you're looking for medical professionals, they should be someone who is actually going blank saying that they are trained in menopause, perimenopause. Or you ask them that question, and it's beyond just what they get in medical school, they don't get a ton of training in medical school, going to an OB GYN or some other type of specialist is not enough, they actually have to, this is one of those things like with therapists or coaches, that additional training that you keep doing, you know, as you become those professionals, menopause, education is one of those things, and a lot of the women doctors that Elizabeth and I kind of, you know, follow will be the first to say that and explain what happens, and what's not covered. And also just that, when we're talking about research, there is research to support a lot of what we say. But at the same time, there's data coming out all the time, because now, it's only now that this kind of lens is, is increasing. And people are, you know, wanting and expecting that community to start researching and giving us more information about what's happening in our bodies. Yeah, and let's face it, this is one of the gifts of an enormous generation, like the baby boomers, that they are aging, and the medical community is having like a great reckoning around what happens to your body as you age. And this is beyond gendered stuff, too. And so all that to say, you do have to do a little bit of advocacy, advocacy for yourself a little education, a little research, networking, asking around in your community, maybe you're a part of Facebook groups or things like that, where you can ask who people are going to for care in midlife. The North American menopause society, they do have listings of people that actually, you know, that's one place to start. Yeah, profit that will say if someone is trained in that area, I mean, Elizabeth and I both really are huge. Like advocates for ourselves in this way. And we probably because of our history, and our mother being sick for so long, we might do a little more research than the average person. But I would say that, so health anxiety, cough, cough. So I would say that, even for us, it's it's a multifaceted, or for me, I will say it was a multifaceted process of finding, not just someone who might hang their shingle and say that they are, you know, trained in that. But like Elizabeth said, talking to other people that you know, and trust and just hearing what other people are having to say about their experiences, because it is a very unique journey. Yeah. And to be honest, like I live in Kansas City, Missouri, they're finding menopause specialists who are trained and have additional, you know, education is a difficult thing here. I don't have providers who I would say are trained or have any expertise. What I have is providers who are open to me saying, I believe this is tied to menopause, I believe this is menopause. And who have been curious with me and collaborative that that has made a big difference. I also had a psychiatrist who was able to say, Hey, your hormones play an enormous role in your mental health. And if you're having these changes, then we have to be factoring that in. So this is not people who actually understand the aging body necessarily, but who are, you know, more collaborative with their patients. And so, I think that's the other piece is if you are working with a provider, and you just feel like you get a lot of pushback or a lot of hesitancy or doubt or like questioning your instincts about yourself. I would say that's a place to lean out and say, Well, let me just see, maybe there's somebody out there who would be curious with me. That's a really good point, because I'm in the Dallas area, and doctors are like donut shops and nail salons here. I mean, they're everywhere. And so keeping that kind of privilege in mind, there are some communities so I do you think that's important, I think with therapists as well, that comes up a lot of like, are you willing to like, be curious with me outside of our meeting or invalid giving me that this is yeah. And believing that, like your education had limits to it, right. So you know, are you generally kind of open and curious and creative. This is also why some people will prefer providers of all kinds who are more recently trained, even though they have less experience in the field, we're seeing some come out of their training with a little more openness, and a little more humility around the fact that they don't know everything, and that listening to people's lived experiences and believing them might actually make them incredible providers someday. Yeah. So with that said, I am on menopause hormone therapy. And I recommend that anybody who is eligible for it, because there's criteria around if it's going to be a good option for you, but I really recommend finding someone who's going to explore that with you as an option, if you don't have a history of certain kinds of cancers and heart conditions. But there's newer research out now there was like a big scare about hormone therapy decades ago, that was based on a study that was actually debunked. But like, because the media frenzy around hormone therapy had already spread this fear about it. The fact that the study, it was based on being kind of garbage didn't reverse public opinion. And so we have decades and decades of aging, people who have not tried hormone therapy out of fear from really old rhetoric that was actually based on inaccurate information. So it's like tragic, it's so infuriating. But we now have a little more research to show the true situation around the risks of hormone therapy. In fact, NPR just released a piece about it, I think in the last few days, so you might like look that up, but it can be considered safe for a lot of people. And so I definitely recommend exploring that. And that I think, as something that has helped me personally with a lot of symptoms that I don't think, are like on label, right, like, if you're going to like get hormone therapy, it's for like hot flashes, and night sweats. It's like there's data and research to prove that it helps with those things. However, anecdotally, and lived experience wise, a lot of people will talk about these other effects they believe that have come from taking hormone therapy. So again, this is like in the hearsay category, this is just my personal experience, but it affected my skin because menopause is very drying to your entire person. And it affected that and it slowed that down for me. It improved pretty drastically, a prolapse that I have, which I'm not going to get into because it's like, I don't know how we're getting, my organs are falling out of my body is what I'm saying. And look it up. It's out that estrogen plays a huge role in your pelvic floor strength and those organs kind of your pelvic organs being where it should be. And, and I'm saying that the hormone therapy affected it because it is the only thing I changed. I wasn't like doing anything differently. And so even though my doctor is like, Oh, great, you've been doing all these things. I'm like, No, I've been doing all these days. That's the only thing that changed. I have only been strength training for like two months. improvement from yours is dude, I believe to the hormone therapy. And the hormone therapy that I am on is an oral progesterone and then a patch for estrogen. And I just, I also felt emotionally like more available to my family. When I started taking it. I felt less I felt less anxious and yeah, just generally it wasn't It's not magic and I certainly still have a lot of changes in my body that like cannot be reversed and are creating various degrees of discomfort in my life but are a lot more manageable because it's not in addition to these a bunch of other things. I don't feel like my body is like totally falling apart. and I was feeling like that for a minute. There are a year and a half. So yeah, I think it's a I think it's worth I think it's worth exploring. I also at the beginning of going through menopause, I started an SSRI, so an anti depressant to help with intrusive thoughts, and anxiety and all kinds of things. And I did that instead of an anti anxiety because I was also taking stimulants for ADHD, there was just like, all these decisions around like, what really needed the support was I wasn't sleeping well. I had a really upset stomach a lot of the time. And I was really anxious about people in my life getting hurt. And I did not know that it was menopause. So I just felt like I'm having a breakdown. And my body is physically not okay, so like, maybe I should take some medicine. So I started taking medication, and then the hormone therapy. And then eventually I did wean off of the SSRI, which was hard to do, but I did it. And I still sometimes wonder if I should go back on it. I haven't been on it for a little over a year. And I think I wanted to come off it because I was curious about. I was just curious about a lot of things. Once I realized it was menopause, I was kind of like, oh, well, what's my baseline? Is this is just a huge shift, and not like a mental breakdown or a big mood disorder than like, where am I in here? And what kind of support do I actually need right now? And so I weaned off of a bunch of stuff to kind of get a sense of what was needed in terms of medication support. Do you feel like sharing anything about your meds? You don't have to know? Yeah, well, because I think ours was a little different. So maybe it'd be helpful. So I got on HRT as well. And I am currently on the progesterone pill and the transdermal patch, I did try the other the pill for the estrogen at first. Which with the new data out feels less problematic, but I'll be honest, I feel better with the patch. It just seems to be in my system a little bit better. When I first started HRT, I, I think I talked a lot about my symptoms in the last episode. But the biggest ones were the impending doom, night sweats. I mean, I would wake up like I had been splashed with a bucket of water. I mean, it was insane. I've never experienced anything like that. I couldn't remember things. I felt just brain fog all the time. I felt like, you know, I was always walking into rooms forgetting what I was doing. I'm not saying that's totally cured. But for the most part, if you'd asked me, could I learn a new skill back then, with the body going into some type of like stress response? I would have said, No, I would have said like, whatever I'm doing, I'm going to keep doing it. Even if it's really hard on me. Because acquiring new information, I feel like I feel better now in that area than I did. Even in my early to mid 30s. When I probably was starting to decline a little bit, you know, I think maybe not then maybe like late 30s, early 40s. But I feel I often will pause now. And I will just say to myself, like, wow, my brain feels like it's kind of running on all four. All four cylinders right now. Yeah, it's quite bizarre. I mean, when because I can still remember the contrast right? Now I'm sure it's probably not the same as when I was in my 20s. But compared to what it was, I mean, I felt adult all the time just kind of walking around. I didn't go on anything else. So this was really truly the only change. I was having panic attacks. Those stopped immediately. I was able to start sleeping. I was couldn't sleep. I mean, that was probably the first thing I was noticing. And it wasn't even just the night sweats. Because sometimes I wouldn't have those I just was like wide awake laying. Why? How can I can't say I haven't slept, I should definitely be able to sleep. And just my overall mood, the impending doom in fact, when I first got on the HRT, I started a very, very low dose because I just I just was unsure and I titrate it up over like six months. And it was not an I like I think I said in the last episode, I think I was still kind of paramedic. I think I was so perimenopause was like right at the end. So I still had Some estrogen coming in my system. And when that I could tell the shift of when that ended, because a lot of my symptoms started coming back, I just did not have enough estrogen in my system. And then I had to go up to a higher dose. And then I was like, within like a week or two, I was like, oh, okay, so that was it. I was. And now I kind of can tell when things are maybe shifting or in those last couple of titrations? I could, I could say that. So, for me, it was a huge fundamental shift. And I did add other things for health, which I'm sure we'll talk about shortly. I really consider menopause being an all hands on deck approach. I don't think there's any like, Oh, I'm just gonna get on HRT, or Oh, I'm just gonna go to therapy. Or I'm just going to do this. I mean, when I think about all hands on deck, I mean, of any season in my life. This is the most multifaceted System of Supports coming from every direction. And I'm always brainstorming, and she's nodding and like, yes, then I've ever had, even as a mom have a newborn. I mean, it is really like, Where else can I find support? What type of support? How will that change? And yeah, so as far as the meds go, I do take some supplements to help with my sleep. But I think before we get into like any of that stuff, do you want to talk about other supports that you've employed? Like, I mean, I love what you just said about like, this being just like, high needs, season of life. And I think that there can be, it can feel kind of contradictory, because you're also coming into this season of, like, the cares, you a lot to certain things in life, start shifting, like, your capacity changes. And so suddenly, you don't want to give the energy or the care to certain things anymore. And so it almost seems like, oh, maybe my capacity could expand, because I'm just not going to get involved in certain things anymore, I'm going to, like, not shut on myself about how I should be showing up in my life or my work or whatever. And, and the reality is that that change doesn't necessarily like free up capacity. For other actions, it like frees up capacity for recovery. Right, like it makes room so that you can breathe so that your whole system and your body can like lay low, and do the like slowing and the quieting that is like very craved in a lot of midlife bodies, I think. And, and so it's interesting, because I would say like, I'm not doing as much as I used to do. And I still feel tired. And also, I am supporting myself in ways that if I am judgey, and if I'm in my like 31 year old self, I'm like what you can't like keep up with the laundry, you can't help more around the house, you can't deep clean your house and have a job and raise young kids. And I'm like no, no Jedi Jedi certain I cannot do all of those things. I need space in my life where there is not pushing all the time. And it's a privilege that I have a little bit of that space. And I'm able to do that. So some of the supports for me are like having someone who helps deep clean our house and having agreements with my partner around housework, it is not all on me and meals and things like that. And doctor's appointments for the kids and right like all these things that I think the invisible labor stuff that lots of people have written and talked about, that moms and women tend to do in their workplaces and in families. And I just have like given myself permission to not be doing all the time so much and to be like allowed to say I have a limit and like I don't want to do that. I don't want to push myself to a place where I'm then like totally worn out all of next week while I still am going to need energy. And that feels like a really supportive thing that has been like hard won, and I'm still working on it. Like it's still hard to have limits but What I have found is this postmenopausal body of mine has limits and it, it doesn't have as much ability to push through them like I used to. And so I kind of have to honor them, which is in the name of celebrating things, is kind of a nice thing in terms of learning to, like, really respect and care for my body. Because it will, it will talk back to me in a way that is like, uncomfortable. And I'm glad to be in this kind of relationship with my body now. Yeah, it's so funny, because just hearing you talk, I was thinking about Elizabeth and I've had many conversations about something adjacent to that. And that's just this idea that like, the the stuff, the all hands on deck. And I guess I'll speak for myself, because her situation may be a little different. She started pretty young, but not that I wasn't young, but super young. And so I feel like a lot because both of us were younger. It was she was definitely caught off guard, I was mostly like, because I've been gaslit, you know, for so long about it was a little caught off guard. And so I was still in that really, hustle capitalist like, grind, I was a teacher. And there was all it was like this perfect storm of stress. And so when I got on HRT and was doing all these things, and started adding these different approaches, I got kicked right in the HSS. Right after because I was doing it as a means to an end to get back to that grind. And what I found was, it was not possible anymore. And I didn't want it anymore. And it wasn't a means to an end to get back to where I was before that there was this grief around who I was before, even though it wasn't healthy. It was like the way I was operating the way I showed up to things the way I got stuff done. And so there's this entire bottom up shift of how you approach your life that is part of that all hands on deck. And so I would caution anyone who's just like, oh, yeah, I've been feeling a certain type of way. I think this is me, or they go into this thinking that this, you know, because you'll see influencers, you'll see people out there and everyone's journey is unique. So maybe there are people out there I don't know, like scaling buildings and doing all kinds of crazy stuff right now in the midst of post menopause. But for us, there was a tremendous amount of grief. And she especially I will say it was robbed, essentially, quote unquote, of like some years that she definitely thought she was going to get with that type of energy. And so when we talk about this, this grief aspect, as well, and I'll have her talk about in just a second is a big a big thing that you're going to have. Most people on not say everybody may have to like tussle with. Because it's all of these things. I will say this all hands on deck is just too. It's just different. I don't want to say to survive, because I don't feel like I'm surviving. I do feel in some areas, I am thriving. It's just all so different. Yet so different. I was seeing like people who go through menopause at 60 or 65, maybe aren't grieving, they might be grieving before because they're having to wait so long. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I think when we talk about the energy of the before, times energy, a big part of that is hormones. It is that monthly cycle, that boost of energy that happens after day one of your new cycle, when you four or five days later, estrogen starts to spike, and there is energetically this shift. And that going away, can feel really destabilizing and disorienting. Because it's like, oh, it's such a drag to have that ebb and flow throughout your life. It can feel like a tug of war. Like why do I feel so bad for weeks at a time and then I feel really, really good. And then I feel so bad. But you also can kind of lean into that and start noticing like, Oh, but I do feel really good sometimes. And maybe I can do more when I'm feeling really good. And that up and down is no longer available and and it's so it's like disorienting. It's also once once the dust settles, it is one of the best parts of going through menopause is that I am no longer being pushed around by my hormones in this way. And so Oh yes, I'm not getting those boosts. But I'm also not having these big dips anymore. And so once I think I adjusted to, oh, my baseline is different. And it's affecting lots of functions in my body. But I can find this like new normal and lean into it a little bit that has provided a little bit of like, I don't miss having a period at all. At all, sorry, if you're listening, and this is like very uncomfortable, and you don't like it, but whatever. It's a part of life. But yeah, that like monthly cycle, which was never on time on a certain clock. For me, it was always a surprise, which is some of my neurodivergent. I mean, seriously, in my 30s, I think I had a roommate that was like, wow, you're like, still surprised by your period, a trait of ADHD. I was regular. And I was still like, confused. I feel like oh, my gosh, the world is ending, like such a terrible day, such a terrible job and world. And then I would like start my period the next day and be like, Oh, my gosh, why don't I know when I feel that low that that's what's coming. But I never ever figured that out. In fact, also didn't notice that I was going through menopause tracks. Take it all with a grain of salt. But yeah, I mean, there was a lot of grief around being in my early 40s, having two young children and feeling like, Oh, I'm now in this body that's going to just run at a lower baseline. And I still need to be able to kind of like grind here and there and push through. And that felt unfair. Yeah, I mean, I'm watching some of my peers do things with their kids as their kids are in middle school, high school, college, and I'm just like, oh, okay, I'm just not going to get that like midlife experience. As a parent. I'm going to just be an older mom right away. And yeah, that was hard to reconcile it still is, but I, I feel like it's been four years. And I definitely feel like I am on the other side of like, the deepest part of the pit. Like what is happening to me, I feel like I'm moving out of that. And so it doesn't feel so bad anymore. So I also want to say that, like, you're going through perimenopause, which can last up to 10 years, sorry to tell you. And then you go through the menopause transition, which is just basically you stop having a period. And after a year, when you're a certain age, after a year, they'll say, Okay, now you're postmenopausal. And they say that because you can still have a random period really up until like, close to two years sometimes. And And once that stops happening, then it's almost like your body goes through the final changes of like shifting into that next stage of life. And systems start to really adjust to like, Oh, we're not getting any more boosts of hormones, what we, you get what you get, and you don't get upset. And so that process for me anyway, took a few years to like settle into and for like all systems to figure out where go is now. And I'm I'm finally at that place where I'm starting to have kind of a sense of normal, and it feels so much better, like I am doing so much better. And absolutely with the help of somatic therapy, with medications with hormone replacement, with a really supportive partner. And my kids getting a little bit older, and working for myself and having flexibility in my day to day like all these supports. Lindsey who helps clean our house like these people who support me having my sisters on text available anytime to just like spout off about things like that. The connection points and the people who are surrounding me, I feel really well supported. And I feel like I'm going to be okay, like, I'm going to be okay, I'm coming back up for air. I actually am building some friendships, which to me, for me is a sign of how I'm doing is my social engagement outside of work stuff. And so, I just want to say if you're in perimenopause or your early post menopause hang in there. It does get better things do stabilize, and it can feel really hard to hold on. to that in the midst of it, and so whatever supports you can bring online for yourself to help you hang on, do it. Yeah, it was just the way here's what I was thinking. Okay, so I think I'm in that final, because I noticed even some changes just in the last like six months, even though nothing has changed. Input wise, it's like, Hmm, something's happening. And I'm so in tune with my body. But I was thinking about your point of like, just talk about the somatic therapy as if it I will say that for me, too, I needed because I'm a woman, I'm the oldest sister. And we were time layers here, people, I had to do a lot of inner child stuff, I had to do a lot of like nervous system repair. And like, because taking up the kind of space that you have to take up to kind of care for yourself in the season, in a society that one like, doesn't even want to look in your direction too much anymore. And then you know, you're going up against other people's like lenses, and things like that is not for the faint of heart. And so having anyone who is willing, like Elizabeth said early in the podcast to like, listen, or like to acknowledge that this is a thing, and trigger warning of like self harm. So if you want to, like, pause, whatever the take, it's gonna be very brief. But women between 45 and 55, that's the highest incidence of suicide. And now that we have gone through it, we know, and can see very clearly how that could be a distinct possibility. And if you are struggling and having those thoughts, that is, that's a 911, that's you need to reach out to someone as soon as possible. But all that to say is that taking up this kind of space, even now, it's still I still have to titrate that in, you know, like one of my supports is because of the sleep thing, because I have anxiety as well is like, you know, she was talking about her husband mine, one of my main is that I have to get that early morning sunlight and go on a walk in the morning. So that my circadian rhythm is set so that I can just take some magnesium and titanium and go to sleep at night, do some like breathing and meditation or whatever. And so I want to go to bed, I want to actually be in my bed. But you know, if it were totally up to me, it would be like seven with the door open. And the kids would come in, like, I'm grandpa, Joe and Charlie in the chocolate. That would be ideal for me, okay. But I usually negotiate like, after I get the youngest down. So like between eight and 830. I come in and I you know, I'm honestly by nine o'clock, right? Because I get up really early. And if I my sleep is jacked for, you know, for some reason, I usually only will get it on the front end of the night. So he sleeps in a little bit longer, I go to bed a little bit earlier, and we can dip, you know, take turns on, like the shift, so to speak and a little bit different way. So I share that too. Just as another example of like, it's taken a lot of creativity, it's taken a lot of like me leaning in listening to my body when it was the talks about Cymatics talking about like really learning to like, lean into what my body is telling me and yeah, I'm neurodivergent as well, eldest sister, you ignore your whole life, it takes a minute to kind of get to know its language. And yeah, and I think it's a really important piece that I'm really grateful. And I will say to if we're talk just briefly about what's been so good is I would never have pursued or I wouldn't have thought to pursue that early enough in my life, which now I'm so glad for my as a mother and now I have all these years left, you know, hopefully, that I have access to this this other therapeutic modality that I would never have known about I only thought there was talk therapy and, and things like that and, and and how healing that's been for me because of my all hands on deck mental approach to the situation. I've opened myself up, I'd never could meditate before because, you know, I was in a constant stress. I was just constantly stressed out. I actually had to do some nervous system repair. Elizabeth helps with some of that. I had a therapist help with some of that and in order to even be able to sit still and do that for a little bit. So I mean, for me, that has been really great and and when when she was speaking earlier, it's You are when you respond, I keep talking to them, like, I don't normally do that, but whatever, um, is that when you were saying we're not having the dips is that I have an older child, he's a grown up out in the world. And then I have the two younger elementary schoolers. And for someone who's a neurodivergent woman who has been really oh man, behold, in a lot of ways to my cycle for a lot of years, PMDD all the other stuff, to be able to raise some of my children for part of their life in a little more stabilized way of being able to access and not having some of those unpredictability that come with the hormone ups and downs, I'm not saying listen, I still lose it. And I still like have stuff, because I'm still tired, like, you know how to repair. And you know, what's happening, when I came down even more, I had just have access to things I never had access to, because of this kind of crossroads of having to like live life in a different way. Totally. And I think the, the somatic healing piece has been huge for me, too. And I know there are people out there who say it's not for everyone. And I really believe that there is some type of somatic healing modality or practice that is possible for anyone, I really, I don't think it's one size fits all. But if it's yoga for you, or if it's meditation, or if it's, you know, working with a somatic therapist who's trained in some kind of somatic modality, reconnecting to your body and getting to know it's language, I do believe is possible for everyone. And I want to just encourage people to like, be creative, and keep trying to find ways to be connected to yourself. And maybe that's that, like, you used to be a swimmer. And you get back into swimming or things like that, right that like or you used to bake all the time, and you haven't in a while, and you get back into that and you're using your hands and your body to create, like there's all these ways that we can get embodied, that I think are really important. And then in addition to that, I just want to say like being in this world is really traumatic for a lot of people. And so working with a trauma therapist, especially one who is interested in what your body has to say about what you're experiencing or have experienced, can be a very liberating process. And it can mean that going through perimenopause can look very different. Like if I had had this training 15 years ago, and this, you know, access to this somatic therapist. I don't know what perimenopause and early motherhood would have looked like. I suspect it would have looked really different. My capacity for stress and fear would have been really different. And my ability to recover would have been different. And so yes, our bodies can be unpredictable. I think they mostly feel unpredictable, because as Sarah mentioned earlier, no one's studied them. And so everybody's just like will assume mysterious and unpredictable. But there's a lot about our bodies that is knowable. And I think the pursuit of knowing them, even to the degree of understanding, menopause, and perimenopause, even if you may never experience it firsthand, I think is a part of like blessing the community of humans you're around and knowing that ageing bodies is a thing and that people around you are aging and you will be aging and it matters to understand that that means your life is going to look different and your needs are going to look different. And the people next to you are going to need things differently and require things differently of you and like we have to be in this together. And that's a big part of why I talk about it so much even when I have no idea who the people are that are listening here or even on Instagram or whatever or you know dinner parties. I will say I want to say one more thing about what you just said too, is that that embodiment party is is is no joke when it comes to the quality of our lives. And that's with the caveat that like you know, obviously like what Elizabeth said she believes everyone has can have access to that with all the things that she said sort of wants to just make as a complete when it gets statement, I guess I don't know. But I will say that As a parent, tapping into that embodiment because your whole life, we're just, we just think of our law, I just thought of myself as a brain. And my body was an inconvenience, it was like things that would get in my way. And now that I realize I am a body, like my kids are a body, right? Like that has challenged me and encouraged me, to teach them and to model to them. There's all kinds of wisdom and things to be to be known and to be utilized for the quality of their own lives that I would never have had because of that process. And I just, I feel like if nothing else came out of being in menopause, that would be enough for a lifetime. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, for generations, right. Yeah. We're changing things for the next ones. Yeah. Okay, well, good check. Yep. I will have you. Let me do it later. Bye.