Marketing & Mayhem
Parenting Pandemonium, Postpartum Pressure & Sisterhood Shenanigans
Is busy … always better? Christina Smalley - licensed family therapist, who specializes in perinatal mental health - joins us as our first guest. This episode is filled with honest dialogue about the standards we hold ourselves to as women and mothers, and how negatively they impact our own mental health. Jenny & Raebecca get deep (and transparent) with the mental blocks they face.
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Hosted by @raebecca.miller and @jennyfromthe843
Is busy … always better? Christina Smalley - licensed family therapist, who specializes in perinatal mental health - joins us as our first guest. This episode is filled with honest dialogue about the standards we hold ourselves to as women and mothers, and how negatively they impact our own mental health. Jenny & Raebecca get deep (and transparent) with the mental blocks they face.
For more mayhem, be sure to follow us:
Insta @marketingandmayhem
YouTube @MarketingMayhemPod
And don't forget to leave us a 5 star review! Or message us to deep dive into your topic or just give us feedback!
Hosted by @raebecca.miller and @jennyfromthe843
Alright, we're back, Episode 9 and our first guest ever. So we have Christina Smalley with us today. I'll give you a formal introduction in two seconds, but this is the informal version. Christina, I have known for 17 years. Wow, she is married to my little big brother and she is really amazing. So we've talked about you a few times in past episodes. Like I've referenced different things you said to me in like funny little conversations. But now we have you on air. You're this is not a hostage situation, but I hope you have as much fun as we're about to have with you.
Speaker 2:I just like how fitting it is that, like our first guest is a therapist.
Speaker 1:Oh. I think that really speaks volumes to who we are as people and fully willing to like participate in this may happen, yes.
Speaker 2:So thank you for being here.
Speaker 3:It's the growth. I like it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's do a check-in really quick. How is everyone? How's your week?
Speaker 2:Week is good it is rainy here, the power is out, and so that's fun. I've had to relocate recording studios today and then my husband's out of town and like I feel like normally and I'm good. The dogs are the issue. They, you know, we've got Tani and he is still a baby, so he wakes me up at four and five o'clock in the morning because he's like hungry and I'm like go back to bed and I don't function well with like limited sleep.
Speaker 2:So I'm like a bear. So if I like bite your head off, just know that it's because I'm not sleeping.
Speaker 1:I'm not sleeping well either. Well, I mean normally, when I'm totally feeling no stress.
Speaker 2:I sleep amazing, so I don't know why I can't take the last time I had no stress, I'm kidding. Like maybe five, I don't know. I was probably worried about something to you.
Speaker 1:I had some margaritas last night with a friend, so I was kind of hoping that that would give me sleep, but it didn't, and that's why I look so pretty this morning. And I also broke a nail, so I'm going to have to go and see Andy, but I just showed the girls this but and maybe I'll post it this is the exact reason why I have to have pointy nails. She was right that the one that's broken looks like a Halloween thumb. I think it looks like a toe, a Halloween toe. So we're in agreement. I need the points.
Speaker 2:You do, and I actually was disagreeing with you about this because I think they're kind of scary looking. But no, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I told you I did. This wasn't my original decision. Like a person led me to this decision and every time I break one I'm like wow, that's a Halloween toe Gross.
Speaker 2:So sorry, christian, this is just what we do I like it Okay, talk to us.
Speaker 1:How's your week. It's Wednesday.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we're getting back into life. Over here we were traveling and then my husband had surgery, so he's home for the next lots of weeks and we're doing it, yeah, so yeah, he's normally not home. No, he works, so he's not able to pick up anything heavier than a gallon of milk.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, and like we haven't really talked about this. But like the man called and then add that, add surgery to that like mentality. When Nate had his vasectomy he was like, oh, I had major surgery. Like I can't do anything. I'm like you got like a vein clipped, like you're fine, like I mean come on, throw some peas on your crotch and let's roll. I mean get it together, I know.
Speaker 3:So, god bless, my husband actually had the audacity yesterday to say I'm going crazy, how did you do this? When you were home with the kids, I was like my friend. I was taking care of babies.
Speaker 1:We should say this Christina has three kids, so Jenny has one, I have two, christina has three, which I think is like such a fun dynamic. I don't know why I'm obsessed with this, but like let me tell you about three. And so I sent her this meme the other day because obviously I know her kids really well and I love her kids. But the meme was like the baby of the family bullies everyone. And let me just tell you right now, in that family the baby Elsie Ann is the boss.
Speaker 3:The biggest boss.
Speaker 1:And my brother completely allows it.
Speaker 3:He is wrapped.
Speaker 1:My brother indulges it 100%. Other two kids could never get away with the stuff that Elsie Ann gets away with. It is bananas.
Speaker 2:I love that, though, like I feel like she's probably going to grow up and be like a girl boss, I love that 100.
Speaker 1:Well, her sister is already a girl boss.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, her sister is going to either run a gang or a company.
Speaker 1:She is. That girl has more spirit and soul in her than probably anyone I've ever met. I mean that kid, the wind blows through her hair when there's no wind around, like she is meant to move mountains.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:Like she's a wild child, you could see this picture from vacation.
Speaker 3:She just was in it to win it. She brought her Polaroid camera on vacation and was like mom, we got to take a picture here. Mom take a picture of me doing that. Mom take a picture of me. She's about to turn eight this weekend, oh god.
Speaker 1:Saturday Wow, I had to pre-record her birthday message because I don't have the girls this weekend.
Speaker 3:That's smart. That was really smart of you.
Speaker 1:I know, but I was like, oh my gosh, I have to make sure I'm my life together for Rowe because I love Rowe.
Speaker 2:but yes, we're ready for it.
Speaker 1:So let's jump into it. Ok, I'm going to say what you do and I'm probably going to butcher it. So Christina is a child and family therapist, but she specializes in perinatal mental health. What is that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so obviously the child and family therapist kind of speaks for itself. So I work with families and their little ones, but I actually specialize in perinatal mental health, which means I work with families during their reproductive kind of years. So from preconception through parenthood talking about mental health, mood disorders, transition to parenthood, all the things that come along with infertility and birth trauma. So the gamut.
Speaker 2:I had no idea what that was perinatal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a newer term. I think there's a lot more information now and we're talking a lot more about this transition into parenthood, and I don't want to say postpartum depression specifically, but just all the type of things that come along with postpartum. We are hearing a lot more about postpartum depression and anxiety, but it's being talked a lot more about now. And also, not everyone has postpartum depression, but everyone that has a child goes through a transition.
Speaker 1:That's like understatement of the century yeah no, I know, I just definitely got this. Even when you said birth trauma, my heart just sunk. First of all, let me say this In general I'm so glad that we're talking about these things in a different way than we used to and a bigger way, because I just think, even if it's things like my divorce, I talk about it a little bit more because I feel like nobody does and it becomes this really secretive thing, and I think that's so true for moms and motherhood or terms like birth trauma. That's kind of how we got to reaching out to you and asking you to be here, like Jenny and I were talking last week and she had a day that I think everyone can relate to, but and you don't mind me sharing, I'm assuming- no, not at all, but there are just days sometimes when you're a mom and I don't know if this is specific to moms or specific to working moms.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it's like to be a mom and not a working mom, so I can't speak to that but there are just some days where you wake up and it has nothing to do with your calendar, but you just cannot shake this sense of just like whether it's like fear or dread or anxiety, and you know for sure that the next day is gonna be a better day, because those hard days don't happen all the time. But it is awful.
Speaker 2:It really is and I don't feel like I'm like that, just like I mean, when I was texting you back I was just it's just more of like I am fine 92% of the time, like I am on lock, I can work as many jobs as I need to, I can do all the PTO things I can grocery and wife and all the things. But then there are days when I'm just like I'm about to effing break, and that was my day last week and it was like I was super quiet and then you were like what? You read into it, even via text message, which is crazy, and you were like what's wrong? I'm like I am just like about to lose it today. An and I don't know like. It's not really an anger thing for me, it's just more of like don't talk to me, I'm super over stimulated, like I cannot handle one more thing.
Speaker 3:One, if you're like One, if you're like the anger stimulation thing is real, like I don't even think that I realized what that was until I had kids and then I was like everything is too loud, everybody is touching me, everybody is talking to me, the lights are too bright, right, and that just sends you into a whole nother world, like it's fight or flight.
Speaker 1:It's a fight or flight and then there's that like thing that people you hear people say, but like if you're a working mom, you have to work like you don't have kids, but then you have to be a mom like you don't work. And so that's the extra pole where I'm just like I like had these phone calls where they feel really important, then I've got little people who are really important, and then I've got the vegetables and the air fryer is going and like I love the air fryer. But there are days where that little hum is like the final thing that's going to break me, because my ears just like and I don't know if I just because I have like retail ears, and so I'm like attuned to listening to every single conversation, but like I'm like I just need to go lay face down on my bed and like panic.
Speaker 2:Well, I think, christine, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was we talk about postpartum depression. But do we talk about like postpartum anxiety I have had ever since I got pregnant, and like I was not an anxious person before, but like I feel like as soon as I had my daughter I am convinced that I'm going to die. Like it's everywhere I go, like it's like every trip, every flight, every carnival ride. It's like this is it for me, like final destination? Yes, log through the window. Like this is my demise. And I actually have talked to several of my girlfriends about this and they are the same way. So I would love some context about why that is.
Speaker 3:I think number one, anxiety, is talked about less than depression, because anxiety is more normalized, right. So like when someone, when you're telling someone all the things that you're doing, they're praising you, how many times have you said I'm doing all of these things and someone's like you're amazing, you are killing it. You are right, it's normalizing are too much Right. You're just being told that all the things that you're doing Good job, do more.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:Right, but that's what we've been taught is when.
Speaker 1:I'm not ready to let that go. I whoa because. And then we're conditioned is that because we're also conditioned as women, to like, love this, like you're such a good girl? Yes, like you. So then it's like, compounded by this whole way, that we're like brought up about like this is why we have no chill.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:So why we're afraid to sit down and like take a second, and you're right, it's completely normalized by this. Oh, it's almost like, validated by like oh, you're doing such a good job.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 3:Because in busyness has been something that's also been awarded. Right. So our culture is like the busier you are, the better you are, but really busyness is a trauma response. Right so we do that to avoid feeling, because if I stopped doing something I have to sit with myself.
Speaker 2:Oh shoot. And it's so true.
Speaker 1:No, I'm panicking right now.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm wetting a little bit, yeah, I need more deodorant.
Speaker 3:Rebecca would say deodorant activated.
Speaker 1:Deodorant activated 100%.
Speaker 2:But that's so true because, like I am not a feelings person, like I get which is, as soon as you said the word, like I broke out in the sweat, so like that's so dead on, because I either go from like I'm either like foot to the gas, stressed all the things to either cocktailed which is what I was going to kind of bring up because I feel like one leads to the other, right, oh for sure, or I'm sleeping, so like I'm not allowing like any of that thought, like the feeling stuff, because I'm like, uh, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
Speaker 1:I'm good Sleeping, though, because sometimes I'm just like no still and I'm supposed to be sleeping, but I'm just like I'm just enjoying the void, but I'm definitely barely sleeping.
Speaker 2:Well, mine's like a hamster on a whale on my brain, so there's nothing relaxing about it, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that's a good time too.
Speaker 2:That's so interesting, kirsten, like, that is like, and I feel like so many people can relate Works.
Speaker 1:So what do you equals better?
Speaker 2:So what do you do besides to medicaid with wine, and can we talk about that? Other substances?
Speaker 3:The, the medicating.
Speaker 1:Well, the the sort of like this mom culture, wine thing, like obviously like I participate yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, again, this is normalized, right. Like we have the cups to say, like this is my, this is mommy's other coffee, or like, right, and I'm not judging, because, like, I enjoy myself some wine. But but there is a slippery slope right Between I'm drinking socially, I'm drinking to have fun, and I'm drinking because I've had a bad day and I need to numbness feeling, or I don't want to feel any of my feelings.
Speaker 1:Oof, what if you treat it more like a piece of chocolate? Cause, like when I pour a glass of wine, I don't necessarily like think to myself, like I, I will say this. I don't think to myself like, oh, I've earned it and I'm going to just put myself out there because I don't care. And I really want these conversations to like cross the lines of like where people are already thinking about these things. So I think about this a lot but I do sort of feel like I earned it. And if it were just food, I would be very sensitive to saying I earned it, because I would never let my kids say that they need to earn a meal or they need to earn food and I don't participate in that conversation mentally with myself anymore and I don't work out to earn my food Like I'm so insanely careful about this earning and like food. But when I pour wine at the end of the night, I do feel like I kind of earned it.
Speaker 3:So why did you have to earn it? I don't know.
Speaker 1:I also feel like I will tell you this, because you called me out on it probably like a year ago I have to earn like any sort of downtime, like I will literally vacuum my entire house, clean every toilet, do all of the sheets. I will go until the end of the day and lose any downtime I could have had because I thought I needed to do those things to earn it. Yeah, so I only have the safety of not earning when it comes to food.
Speaker 3:Which one has been a journey.
Speaker 1:Yes, so I did actually pay the price on that one. I definitely had to pay my dues to learn how to not have to earn fuel, and that was a whole journey in and of itself. But I don't. I haven't done enough work. I don't think to figure out how to like it goes back to that. Busy equals better. Like I don't know how to get my downtime. I feel like I have to earn it. You have to earn it Right.
Speaker 3:Like you are not worthy unless you're productive, you're not worthy at all. Yes, and you made me aware of it.
Speaker 1:So I do actually know now when I'm doing it. That's the start.
Speaker 2:I did not know, so now I'm going to be like keenly aware of it. It's a real thing.
Speaker 3:And I'm not saying I'm perfect because like on a weekend, like I didn't sit down all last weekend until I sat down two fold clothes, and my husband's like leave the clothes, come, just hang out. Like I'm home all week, I'll call, I'll hold them. I was like no, no, I'll just get them done real quick. And he's like just leave it. And I was like I'm not going to do that and I was like, right, right, I can.
Speaker 2:Right, like it's a really funny because I'm actually the same way. Like my husband could care less. I mean I'm not going to say he could care less, but like he cares Not. I mean he does not, it does not bother him if I'm like need to sit down and watch a show, but like before he gets home from work every day I like make sure the house is picked up. Uh huh, it's like, and he truly could care less.
Speaker 2:But like it's so bizarre that like I feel like I have to do that and even with him being out of town this week, it's been so nice. He's like oh, do you miss me? And I'm like I do miss you, but like I don't miss feeling like I need to be up and about, like doing stuff. Like after my daughter goes to bed, I'm like I can sit my butt on the couch and watch. Love is blind and nobody's here, making me feel like I need to be doing something, even though he doesn't care. It's so self driven and like just some kind of like thing that I feel like this angst, that I feel like I need to be doing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's the production piece, Like the. We always have to be productive. We have to, like you said, like burn our relaxation, which is so annoying because I have not met many men. There have been some, but I have not met many men who feel like they have to earn their relaxation time. I was like why?
Speaker 1:are we like this? Why are we like this? We're conditioned.
Speaker 2:It is so, like, how do we overcome that, like these years of conditioning, like obviously wine is not healthy and so I don't think, maybe a moderation, but not long term. So like what do we do?
Speaker 3:I mean, I think the conversations are a starting point right, Like I don't know if our mothers had these conversations. So, talking about it, the one thing that I mean I'm in therapy myself, so like I'm not above needing my own person, but, like you know, being able to feel our feelings right. When I'm angry, I'm allowed to feel angry. When I'm sad, I get to feel sad. When I'm lonely, I get to feel lonely, and I don't have to push that away with housework, with wine, with eating, with exercising, with scrolling on my phone, because all of those things are just things that we do to numb and to not feel.
Speaker 1:Can I unpack something really quick? So my therapist said that anger is a secondary emotion. Yeah, can you walk us? Because this was actually a turning point for me. First of all, I this is going to sound really wild, but Christina can explain this better I actually have a very hard time getting angry. I get irritated, but I actually really have a hard time getting angry. It's just not innately who I am and I do in some ways probably like just disassociate with my family, disassociate from it in general. Um, but because you actually told me once that I need to get in touch with my anger, I told you that.
Speaker 1:I was like I really it's just not who I am and so, and it scares me, probably because, like other people's, anger has scared me in the past. So maybe that's like, maybe we're just unpacking this right now. It's like I feel like a baby, just like slipped out, but like um, I don't know what it is about. Anger that like freaks me out but I just can't do it, like I can't, I never can call people names and I can never say mean things like that. I just I don't have it in me and I'm imagining that that is just because I've been in situations where that felt really scary. But um, and I'm not like, by the way, this is not a conversation about my divorce, this is just the generalize like in my life I have been in situations where this felt scary to me and so I just avoid that kind of level of conflict. But what does it mean? That anger is like a secondary emotion.
Speaker 3:So, typically speaking and this isn't true for everyone but anger is an easier emotion to portray and to feel than to feel what's underneath. Right, it's like an iceberg. So what you see at the tip of the iceberg is anger. Underneath is embarrassment, shame, shame, feeling not worthy, feeling lonely, feeling disappointed, right, like it's all of these secondary, these other things. Right, that are what you're actually feeling deep down. But it's way easier to express anger and to feel anger because that has like energy and it has like something that feels productive, versus like I feel ashamed.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But anger is also an emotion that we have to listen to. Like what is it telling you? Hmm, right, a lot of times it might be telling you that you've been, you're being treated poorly, right, and your anger is that message, right, or something like that. So anger is the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 2:That's so interesting to me because, like I feel like I am someone who does get angry, like I feel like I have the sharpest tongue, like I have spent many a year in therapy to get rid of it, because it is something that I really struggle with. Like I can say something that is like the meanest thing ever and I'm really sensitive to like tone with how I'm spoken to and how I speak to people, because I'm super sensitive to it, just how I grew up. But yeah, like I'm the opposite of Rebecca, like I am real quick to you. It takes a lot to get me there and it usually is a stem of me being overwhelmed with other things. It's just like the snowball and it rolls and rolls and rolls and all of a sudden it just like hit something and it's like Right, but yeah, I think that's that's so interesting, that it's the easier one and I actually feel better after I get angry, like I know that sounds insane, but it feels almost like when you cry.
Speaker 2:It's like this release like a release yeah it's like oh God, I got that energy out of me Like I just needed to like scream. That's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we like, and I think it. For men it's more socially acceptable to express anger than it is for women.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 3:For women like you're irrational, you're hysterical, you're all the things we already know that I don't need to say. So, for women, anger is usually an emotion that has to be suppressed, or we felt, feel like it has to be suppressed because, god forbid, I'm hysterical. Right, you're allowed to be angry, you're allowed to express anger. Right, and, like you said, like sometimes, when you express the anger, the energy is being moved through you. Right, like, and obviously we want to do it in a productive way that doesn't hurt other people or ourselves, but you're allowed to do that to me.
Speaker 1:You like always back stuff up like that. It's so funny to me. You're like and also I want you to remember that we're going to do that in a productive way. Oh yeah, I'm totally going to do that in a super productive way.
Speaker 1:Thank you for reminding me about being productive, while I also expressed myself Like here's the weird thing though. So like this is like the level three of this. While I don't get angry, I am fiercely protective of everybody, like everybody's differences, everybody's thoughts, everybody's value. So I will get loud over protecting other people, but I feel like that's different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I definitely feel like you. It's very bizarre to me how you've kind of been with you, you know the past four to five months closer and watching you how you handle situations, and I'm like I would be lighting shit on fire, I know.
Speaker 3:If I were you.
Speaker 2:And like, if you're so like nonchalant about it and I'm like you know I might need more therapy, because you made me feel like I missed psychotic, because you're so like mellow and I'm like dude, I'd kill somebody, like I don't know if I'm actually mellow, I believe.
Speaker 3:I'm just a range inside.
Speaker 1:I'm like, I'm like I'm scared of it and so I'm also like I'm also trying to protect everybody, Right? But?
Speaker 3:you're not doing it for yourself?
Speaker 1:Right, so that's what I was going to say. I'm like, I am definitely so. We, christina and I, talk a lot about a neagram. I'm an enneagram eight, she's an enneagram nine. Do you know you're I?
Speaker 2:don't even know what I am. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:It's so good. It's so good, so it's are like they're. They're a little bit loud, they can be stubborn, but they're like the protectors of society. Wouldn't be surprised if you're an eight, and so they are the people who will really stick their neck out. And so there are personalities that don't like that right, because it feels conflictive, because there are other personalities that are more I'm going to use the word manipulative, I'm sure there's a nicer way to say it but they are like whether it's like being the hostess of a party and like having everything go their way or whatever like the eights are the protectors. So that requires a little bit of like volume. I can do that for everybody but myself.
Speaker 3:You deserve a little of that for yourself.
Speaker 1:So, like when I talk to you guys about certain things are going on and you like give me the eye or, like you like, validate it even a little bit, I'm like, okay, that's enough. And I'm like, hey, as long as I know, just like this tiny little bread crumb of, like I'm not crazy, like that used to be a thing for me, like right, like you're being so crazy, like that used to be a really big trigger for me, like I hate that, like that's one way to get on my wild side, to roll fast, is to call me crazy. I don't know if every girl is like this.
Speaker 1:Okay call me crazy and I'm about to unleash wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you got to stay crazy. Yeah, I don't know what it is about that statement.
Speaker 1:But do not call me crazy, because I will actually, I can keep myself in control under any other situation. But if you say the word crazy, I will level up immediately. Why is that? Well, you know what I think it is it's a lack of being understood. Yeah so that like sweeping, like oh, you're so crazy. I'm like, if you could just listen to me, if you could just understand me, if you could understand why this is important to me, like I just don't, I won't. It's very dismissive.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's very dismissive. Yes, that's it. Yeah, but I don't like being dismissed. No, no, that's, that's a major trigger for me, like feeling like I'm not being seen or heard, that like I go into major shutdown mode, major.
Speaker 1:I completely in the same. I wonder if this is universal for women.
Speaker 3:If you think about it like we have, a lot of women have been told that like our needs not necessarily like consciously, but like unconsciously, we've maybe been told like your needs are too much, you're too much, you're too loud right, be small, be meek, be respectful, be quiet, be a good girl Right. When we're dismissed. It can really hit that wound of like my needs are important, no one cares about what I have to say, ooh.
Speaker 1:I will tell you that, and I don't know if this is just turning 40 or what, but the one thing that I just will not compromise anymore on is like being understood that that is mis-example.
Speaker 1:Behavior is just an absolute, like a hard no for me and any relationship, even a friendship. If I have to over explain myself or if I have to beg to be understood or if I have to like beg to be loved in any sort of capacity it could be a job I will literally leave immediately. I don't want to be at a table or in a room where somebody is not actively working to like understand why I am the way I am.
Speaker 2:I agree wholeheartedly. Did you see that thing? I posted the other day on Instagram. I said water, what waters you?
Speaker 3:Yes, oh, I love that.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I feel that same way and I mean, yes, I am too much, I agree, but I'm here for it, I love it. I love being too much because everybody else is too little in my opinion. I'm like y'all need to level up.
Speaker 1:You know it's like well, the opposite of too much is everybody who's just talking about other people, and that kind of energy is not an energy I waste my time with no like. If your whole job is just to sit around and analyze my behavior, like you are, just that's not. I don't know how that could possibly be fulfilling the screenshots or the whatever you know. I know for sure that's probably happening in my life behind the scenes right now, whether it's like, oh, she's so crazy on Instagram, or like, oh, did you see their houses for sale? Or like whatever it is. I know those things are actively happening and, like, each time I figure out who was participating I am. It's an immediate write off, like I just don't care, that's. I'm not going to explain to you, not even in Costco in the pasta aisle, why I do the things that I do, like my yeah, there comes a point where, like, what someone thinks about you is honestly not a business.
Speaker 2:Yes, yep, absolutely I agree. And I do find, like, as you get older, like I feel like your circle does tend to get smaller, because it's like you know, when I want to be around, I want to be around. Other people who you know talk about how they're bettering themselves, what they're doing you know different recipes, you're cooking different workouts, you're doing like something besides other people like it just it is not a fun topic of conversation for me. I'm not in high school anymore. It just seems so petty and mean that I just I mean I think, yeah, I mean, as I got older, my circle has substantially gotten smaller, because I'm like I just I don't want to be like that. I don't want to be like that.
Speaker 1:Well, and I'd like really I'm going to say this because this is a weird thing to say and like I want to go there. But I would rather talk about myself and I mean this in the least selfish way, because I'm not obsessed with myself but like my current parenting issues, my therapy conversations, because, like even last year, when I was talking about redefining my own values and beliefs, I was having great conversations with girlfriends about their own values and beliefs. So, like I would rather talk about like the actual things that I am in the weeds with. And like, even if it's divorce like I, when I was first getting divorced, I reached out to two people I don't know very well, because I thought that they were divorced but I wasn't even sure and like I needed somebody to talk to, like how do we not? I mean I would rather make myself available and share my own experience and then help, let somebody that I trust help me work through that. I'd really rather talk about the weeds.
Speaker 2:I'm already in personally, but I think you bring up a great point, becca. Like I think that being a woman, especially a mom, especially as we get older, like I get very lonely, yes, and like I'll never forget a therapist I once had, like I was like you know, I want to have these like deep conversations with my husband and, like you know, talk about all these deep things. She's like that's why you have girlfriends, because men are not going to have those conversations with you, and I'm like it's like you know, I am very protective with you know what I share with people.
Speaker 2:So I think we we do get to that point where you're just holding it inside and you're you know, you do feel lonely because it's like I can't talk to anybody about this stuff. Because, one, I don't want to be air in my dirty laundry. Like two, can I trust this person? And then, like three, like, are they going to be?
Speaker 3:like, oh my gosh, she's a freak you know, yeah, I don't want to be showing up to relationships where I can't be my authentic self, like I don't have the energy for it. I want to come into the room. I want you to know me. I want to wear my sweatpants with my ponytail and I don't want to put my eyebrows on.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 3:I just want to be like laughing the whole time, like that's what I want to do, like I don't want to have to like, do the fake smiles, do the small talk? Like that isn't for me.
Speaker 1:Agreed wholeheartedly. I am just really quick because I think we should end on a funny note. There was a. Do you have a picture of this? I think we might. There was a situation like Tina and I talk a lot Like there was a moment actually even during COVID, where we were we have a million kids, right we were video chatting daily. There was a day where we got like a little bit of wine tipsy and we put on our wedding dresses and we had an entire video chat in our wedding dresses.
Speaker 1:Stop it right now. I swear to God, we had a video chat in our wedding dresses. We actually invited other people and they did not find it as funny.
Speaker 3:They both left the chat.
Speaker 1:But there was like a moment, probably a year ago, where she called me crying but like I could tell she was funny crying and she was like dude, I have been working all day and she is a natural red head, like beautiful light red hair, and she's like. I just looked in the mirror and she didn't put her eyebrows on, which means like if she doesn't put makeup on them.
Speaker 2:I was about this in the first episode. Do you remember this? Yes, and I like we. It was. Your eyebrows have been like a topic of conversation over here, marketing in my hand.
Speaker 3:I mean, I love it.
Speaker 1:Listen, like anytime anything happens like that, and you're like I have got because I do this thing where if I'm having like something really embarrassing happened, I have to tell people. I either go on Instagram and immediately tell everybody, or I like call Christina or call you and I'm like dude, I just did the dumbest thing. Um you do that I feel like you need to like purge it out of me so I can be released from it.
Speaker 2:I think you want us to laugh with you because, like that's what it is. Yes, oh my gosh, but the eyebrows thing had me rolling.
Speaker 1:Actually forgot about the wedding dress thing until recently, but we definitely spent like an hour and a half in our wedding dresses drinking wine together from different days.
Speaker 3:Good moments like getting yelled at by your mom.
Speaker 1:My mom yelled at us. We got in trouble, we were in the pool till like very late. Yeah, like a year ago and intoxicated, trying to recreate some movie scenes. I was trying to lift her up like the dirty dancing. It was dirty dancing, yeah it was dirty, it was, and I was like just run, like I'm I really am a strong person I lift. I'm athletic, I'm really strong, I can freaking bench 250s. I was like I like not 250, just 50 pounds in each hand, but like that's really impressive.
Speaker 2:No, oh my god.
Speaker 1:But 50 is still impressive. So I was like I'm 100% sure I can lift you over my head. It's like two in the morning. My parents have rented this gorgeous, massive beach house for all of us to get us together and my mom had to come out on the balcony and tell us, like shut the hell up.
Speaker 3:But technically she yelled at Greg.
Speaker 1:She. So my brother was watching us so he didn't die and he definitely got in more trouble. And then he gave me the. I like this is the stuff.
Speaker 3:And I don't think we chilled after that either. I think I think my mom just needed to express herself.
Speaker 1:I think we stopped doing the lifts and we started just putting on goggles and swimming. This was a year ago. There's something about it right back to like being in a room where you don't have to do the fake smiles and the nonsense Like sometimes you just, I understand, like we're moms, wives, ex wives. We own a million businesses between the three of us. We do a million things. You like a million degrees, like I think you guys, what you both have your masters, mm.
Speaker 1:Hmm, these are smart women that at the end of the day, there is something to be said. I'll assist to the day. I like, oh, this is the hill, I'll done. Girls are the most fun period. I love a man, totally. I love a man, but, like girls are the most fun. Our ability to be silly and have a good time, especially where, when we're in a circle like that I'll never get out. Those moments are, hands down, my favorite. Like that's really what. Like being unhinged is like, yeah, I could live in that some days. It's just so indulgent and I wish there was more of it and I wish you didn't feel like an indulgence, but when it happens it's so special I love it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, this has been so amazing, like I know like ready to book a therapy session with you, Christina.
Speaker 2:Is that like a conflict of interest or no?
Speaker 3:You know, I mean I'll just come again and we'll do more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we need to think we'll have to. People have really been looking forward to this episode.
Speaker 3:Awesome, yeah, all right, I had so much fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us and like this was super helpful, A lot of really important insight and it got my wheels turning.
Speaker 2:Keep them going, All right thanks everybody, We'll see you next week.
Speaker 1:Take care.