Marketing & Mayhem
Romance Reads, Social Strategies, and You, the Brand
Join us as we uncork a bottle of nostalgia and celebrate our tenth episode with candid conversations about the art of being oneself in a world of constant observation. Reflecting on the past episodes, Jenny & Raebecca take a left hand turn into the world of romance novels, and the difference between listening to talk, and listening to understand. Hear how your voice affects your branding and marketing. And what we think of vanity metrics, in social media and in life as a business owner.
For more mayhem, be sure to follow us:
Insta @marketingandmayhem
YouTube @MarketingMayhemPod
And don't forget to leave us a 5 star review! Or message us to deep dive into your topic or just give us feedback!
Hosted by @raebecca.miller and @jennyfromthe843
Join us as we uncork a bottle of nostalgia and celebrate our tenth episode with candid conversations about the art of being oneself in a world of constant observation. Reflecting on the past episodes, Jenny & Raebecca take a left hand turn into the world of romance novels, and the difference between listening to talk, and listening to understand. Hear how your voice affects your branding and marketing. And what we think of vanity metrics, in social media and in life as a business owner.
For more mayhem, be sure to follow us:
Insta @marketingandmayhem
YouTube @MarketingMayhemPod
And don't forget to leave us a 5 star review! Or message us to deep dive into your topic or just give us feedback!
Hosted by @raebecca.miller and @jennyfromthe843
Alright, welcome back.
Speaker 1:Welcome back, number 10. Number 10. Can you believe that, like I was just gonna say that, like we've done 10. And I don't even know, like are we doing like seasons? Because like shows end at like season or episode, like 10, 10 or 12.
Speaker 2:So like, podcasts go forever, I know, but I think we still do seasons. You know what I think we need to do? We've been talking about this and we've been joking about this, but I think we need to do an extra episode. That's like us grabbing a glass of wine, maybe a girlfriend or two, or maybe just you and I like on the couch a little bit more, just a dive back into. We've had some really deep episodes.
Speaker 1:We have.
Speaker 2:last episode we talked about motherhood and working motherhood, and that was that resonated with so many of you. When we talked about ourselves. We've gone really, really deep lately, so I think we owe everyone just kind of a like what's it like to be in the car with Rebecca and Jenny?
Speaker 1:Oh my god, we need to play like one of those like getting to know you games, like 100 questions, and we should just like have some wine and do it, because I think I would be really interested to find out what else I learned about you.
Speaker 2:I was just gonna say you, I don't know how to properly convey how little we know about each other when we actually know each other really well, but we're still new here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a game like that would be Okay, that's gonna be. Whatever our season ending is gonna be, that's gonna be our last one before we begin our new season. We'll go out with a bang.
Speaker 2:I love it. Okay, so now it's the end of March. Speaking of going out with bang, we've got school break coming up soon. Something about March flips me out because I feel like January is so slow, February so fast. May is essentially the end of the school year and that's around the corner. And are you just? My brain is like exploding with the amount of like little like read across America.
Speaker 1:The heart. Thing.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, it's too much. It's too much. Oh my gosh Dress.
Speaker 1:I have news what.
Speaker 2:Summit got her official invite to be on team for gymnastics, shut the front door. I know she's been working her little butt off so hard, dying to get that Leo and dying to get out there. And she just from swim team last year. That kid is a competitor. She's a really good listener, so she's hardest worker in the room right. She's got a worker mentality. She's been dying to get out there and so, like I am so excited for her.
Speaker 1:No, I love that my little uscg level bronze, and so also in the world of Rebecca. How is, how was the dating going? The dating on the app.
Speaker 2:I'm learning a lot about myself oh do you tell you know a pet peeve of mine. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay. So here's my pet peeve In the app. You get, you know maybe 40 questions where you can choose how you want to answer it, but you only get three in your profile so you can pick whatever you want and, like some people choose to be really funny, which I love, like you made me change mine to my love for McDonald's, and like that gets some people really upset. But mostly people think it's like funny. Yeah, it's funny. Yeah, I'll totally go on a McDonald's date with you. I'm here for it.
Speaker 2:But actually one person said I love that. You said that because it made you feel like so much more real. That's where I was going for. Yes, I know, I'm so glad I handed it to you. It was a good, it was a good choice. But in this I obviously don't see what the women right. So maybe women are doing this to obviously only see men, but a lot of men, specifically older men, write what they want you to be and for me, something about you having three times where you can tell me about you and using one to tell me what I need to be for you really annoys me.
Speaker 1:No, that would annoy me too.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you wouldn't read too far into that.
Speaker 1:No, I'll be like get original like, yeah, like. But I almost feel like that's a Charleston thing too, because the God of Girl ratio here is like tend to. I mean it's like 10 to one, yeah. So I feel like they have, like they feel they have this mentality like oh well, you know, I got all the pickings so I could be cheesy.
Speaker 2:I love that like be cheesy. Now here though, like if you're gonna start our relationship off by telling me what you need me to be. I can promise you that that's not gonna be a go for me.
Speaker 1:It's something about it is so disturbing. But I think, you know, I think it's funny about, like, looking at your app and looking at some of these people and Jenny full view of my app to see you guys know.
Speaker 1:And she sends me these scary pictures in conversations, that these these opening lines that these people lead with, and I'm like I can't help but think, tying a lot of it back to marketing. And let me tell you why. Because and this is why I did the McDonald's for you, because I guarantee you most women would not say that, and so isn't the antithesis of marketing setting yourself apart from others?
Speaker 2:Can I so two things. Do you think most women go to McDonald's as much as I do? No, okay, just checking. I don't think so either.
Speaker 1:But if they did, I guarantee they would not admit it.
Speaker 2:I did. I will tell you this. I did have somebody on hinge say that the reason that I love the Diet Coke for McDonald's is because there's more like CO2 or something in it, and it's. They do their Diet Coke different and he said a gas station Diet Coke. He listened to the podcast. A gas station Diet Coke will never satisfy you Because, remember, we talked about why don't just get out of my car and go in and I was like you just earned yourself a conversation.
Speaker 1:See, I would go on a date with him because I'm like the fact that he knows that one, two, he took the initiative to listen to the podcast. Like that, to me, is the guy setting himself up indifferent from everybody else, like that's what I'm saying, like that's it's so much about like depicting, like who you are and like setting yourself apart, which is actually a great segue into our topic today, which is branding. Oh, I love branding, I love branding.
Speaker 2:So, much.
Speaker 1:So I'm like anxious to like talk about this and you're probably gonna freak out. But, like Rebecca, you are coming into a new season of life. So like if you were a brand, like if you had to talk to you know a marketing person, marketing company, and say this is what my brand would look like, like, what kind of descriptives would you give?
Speaker 2:Gosh okay. So I'm gonna say this I'm okay, I don't know. So this is a weird. This is a good question. I do know what yours would be.
Speaker 1:I have a few words yes.
Speaker 2:I do oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I would really have to think in that Like so. So I know, last year, when I was like talking to Izzy, who I loved, my therapist who moved, we had this we spent probably six weeks trying to figure out what my values and beliefs are, which is going to sound really crazy, like everyone knows what their values and beliefs are, right, very clearly. However, she would only give me three and I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. Like we had to go so deep to get something so simple, and that's one of the reasons I started talking to hers, because I am so influenced or at the time, I was so influenced by people around me. I wanted to be sure that whatever I chose was just mine. So the work of, like figuring that out, but, like, in a lot of ways, I'm still very careful about making sure that the voice that I'm using is still my voice, so I'm not completely sure what would yours be telling, what yours would be.
Speaker 1:So mine would be bold. Oh, yep, true, a lot of people call it too much. A lot of people call it too mouthy, not too much. You know all of the things, but I am, that is me.
Speaker 2:I'm in your face and it's harder because you were born and raised Southern, I think.
Speaker 1:Yes, very much so. Asking the tough questions, asking things that make people uncomfortable, that's definitely me, I would say thoughtful. I think a lot about all the things and all the people and how people think. I think it's because I am just fascinated by human behavior and why we do the things we do and have studied a bunch of psychology and I just I find it just fascinating. So, yeah, I'm a thinker, so I would say my brand would be very thoughtful, it would be quick-witted, because I am, would like to think that I'm quick-witted.
Speaker 2:I think you are too Thank you and. I think that's because you're a good listener. Well, thank you, that's a compliment. Thank you, you are thoughtful, you give really good gifts, like I think you are bold, but I think definitely being born and raised Southern influences some of that, because I think you're more sensitive to being loud 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm very, yeah, I do, but then I'm like you're very aware of it, okay.
Speaker 2:You know, what I mean You're like hyper aware of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then there's times where I'm like loud and you're like like remember the restaurant? Yes, and we don't mean loud by volume, I just mean like it's oh, we saw this meme the other day. I sent it to Jenny. We can share it on the podcast page. But it was like in every good group or friend dynamic there's one friend that's like oh my gosh, I couldn't say that. And there's one friend's like I'll say it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We had a situation that we both immediately like, saw the meme and thought of the exact same situation.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. So it happened again to me this week. I can't believe I haven't told you this. I went to lunch with my granny and we went and had lunch at a restaurant that will not be named. I ordered a chicken sandwich and it came with Parmesan truffle fries, cause I mean, let's be real.
Speaker 2:I love a truffle fry. Oh right, you could shave it on like dog turds and I'd probably eat it, gosh.
Speaker 1:So anyway. So I'm like halfway through and I look in my fries and there's like like a black curly hair. And so my dad was like, oh, where did y'all go for lunch? And I told him and he was like, how was it? And I'm like, well, the menu was good, the food was good, but it may or may not have had a pubic hair in it. Shut the front door. He was like, oh my gosh did you say something I was like, absolutely not Like I did not say anything, Cause I mean, like at that point I was with my grandmother, like I was with my daughter.
Speaker 1:I'm like what is the point? Like what am I trying to accomplish? Here, Like I don't want to get her worked up. I don't want to get Clark like skived out, cause she gets skived out about stuff like that. So I'm like I'm just going to push it aside and stop eating. Yeah, so, yeah, so yeah. I'm the person who doesn't say anything, but my brand would be bold.
Speaker 2:And like there are times in a situation like that I'm going to, I'm hopefully this helps. I probably wouldn't have said anything either, because like I'm with my granny and like I have my kids, like there's the part of me that's like more the more like submissive part. That's not the business self, that's like don't be disruptive we talked about this last time but like be a good girl, yep. And like don't say the thing. You're like laughing.
Speaker 1:I know it sounds so naughty. No, I read the books, so like that.
Speaker 2:there is like a situation with the whole like praise thing Like when you're enjoying yourselfzar principalmente, as you like.
Speaker 1:Create something really good on the what Like 50 shades of gray books, like dirty books.
Speaker 2:I'm really certain that we just call them romance novels. Oh my God, do you have two seconds, though? Can I tell you a story we should have talked about last time?
Speaker 1:I'm like blushing. I'm like did I have a virus? Off course here.
Speaker 2:Of course I did. I like live for it, I actually. So I did match with somebody on Hint, too, also reads. And then when he asked me what I read, I was like, oh, total trash. And he was like, no, sometimes I read romance. I've read recently and I was like, oh, I love that, but okay, side note. Back to Christina, back to last episode. My mom gave me a Kindle. Did I tell you this story before?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:For my birthday last year because she wanted me to start reading again, because I used to be really into reading.
Speaker 2:She gave my sister-in-law, Christina, her old one, my mom, classic Cindy Smalley purchased the unlimited for both of our Kindles. So I read a book. It happened one summer with the book. It was amazing. I'm probably going to reread it because I just haven't been able to like fill that void since. But what was it? I feel like hang on a second. What is it called? It happened one summer. Okay, the beginning is really annoying. You just have to get through it because the man is such a man and like he's a fisherman and like all this. It's just amazing, okay.
Speaker 2:So, Christina is amazing. He's super attentive, the usual stuff. But then I read like another one and I said Christina like have you charged your Kindle yet? Like I need you to charge your Kindle. Like there's a book I want you to read. So she charges hers and the Kindle Unlimited is all of us shared. So she FaceTiming me. She goes dude, we can all see the books you've been reading, like everyone, on your mom's Kindle Unlimited. No, that you're reading like hockey romance. And I was dead. And so then my mom gave Christina like she purchased this set of leggings and so gave it to Christina, not in like a gift bag, it was just because gift and my mom is a keeper of things. So she had an old Abercrombie bag where it was like the man's torso and she put the leggings in the bag and Christina sent me a picture. She goes mom definitely knows what you're reading.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, is this like the bulk?
Speaker 2:of what you read there. Wait what? No, I mean, the majority of the stories are romance, like they're just like I love a good farmer that like falls in love first.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, no, I definitely feel like I lean like towards this. Smudderer ones. No, yeah, I think the farmers get pretty smudder. Yeah, like I was about to say, are they the same thing? I'm sure they are. Like I'm picture like Danielle Steele where it's like or like what's that book called? Like the Knights at Rodinth, whatever that book is Nicholas Farce.
Speaker 2:She's like the farm hand and he doesn't pay any attention until one day. She's like bending over getting hay and he just handles himself.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's smuddy. That is not romance. Romance is like the notebook. This podcast is a good turn.
Speaker 2:Okay, but I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. My personal brand is romance.
Speaker 1:Mine is smut. I'm a pervert.
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding. I actually did read this amazing quote the other day. That was like the fact that the most I think romance is the top selling genre of books in general, and it was like the fact that most men are saying that women are too much and that they don't understand them. But then romance novels are the top selling genre and it's because women just want to be heard and understood. It doesn't make any sense Like you guys are just not trying. Yeah they're telling you what they want.
Speaker 1:I think, and this podcast is definitely taking a turn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I'm sorry about branding and now we're talking.
Speaker 1:My theory is that the romance and romance novels is lost after you've been in a relationship for a while.
Speaker 2:Oh, shoot, okay, Don't you tell you that sometimes I skip the last chapter, like when it starts. When it tells you like, oh, five years down the road and there's like a baby, I just skip it, I'm here.
Speaker 1:I caught it behavior. Do that? Like? There are books that I read that I'm like I do a deep dive. Have we talked about the idea of you? No, that's the one that I told you to read. Remember, I told you it was like, based on, like the concept we're with.
Speaker 2:Rebecca, yes, the white cotton crafts shout out to white cotton crafts. Yes love them, like Rebecca and Julia, like they were obsessed with them. You guys are amazing.
Speaker 1:They're about to like make it into a movie. It's called the idea of you by Robin Lee and basically it's like loosely based around kind of quote unquote the concept of like Having an affair with like a much younger man who just happens to be like a pop star silly.
Speaker 2:I did read this. I did read this I was Heartbroken when it was over.
Speaker 1:Like I got so deep down the rabbit hole of like googling to see if there was gonna be a sequel and like another book that I was like I would. I'm so dorky that I like googled it and like listen to a podcast about it. These two girls talked about like how devastated they were when it was over to you. This is the kind of stuff podcast I listened to.
Speaker 2:I did read it. I actually loved their role.
Speaker 1:I don't feel like you're loving it, though, because I feel like you would be a lot more excited about it.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing. I didn't finish it yet, oh for f-sakes.
Speaker 1:That thing had me glued to the book, like I think, like I think. I read it today in a half.
Speaker 2:I have. So I have the. I just, matt, just scrapped the girls. So I have a really hard time Like I really like to just like stop and hit pause when I read, and I have a hard time doing that when I'm like the only one and and I do find myself getting like irritated if I keep getting interrupted, especially if it's like part I want to pay attention to. So I don't do it as often when I have the girls because I want to just enjoy it, like it's kind of like my time out. Okay, but I'm gonna need you to finish that book. I know I'm going to have to now.
Speaker 1:It's so good and dirty I mean it was a dirty book but I liked it. Yeah, I'll never forget me and Nate. We're flying somewhere.
Speaker 2:Kendall hold on.
Speaker 1:I'm paperbook, you've seen my office. You know this.
Speaker 2:Well, but your office does not have your romance novels, it has self helpbooks and there's a big difference.
Speaker 1:You know that would be weird if, like I, was on a business zoom and they're like Jenny was all the porn by no but like. It's not porn, but like it's okay.
Speaker 2:But I understand why you would want a self help book in Hard copy, because I'm a highlighter and I write in those same. Yeah. But I actually read on a Kindle. A because my mom got it For me. Shout out to mom's any small I thank you, love you. And b because some of these covers are.
Speaker 1:Did you not see my suitcase picture the other day when I did the poll?
Speaker 2:I don't think I zoomed into it.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I bought that book that you told me to buy with the stopover. Oh, and it has like the most Ridiculous cover over the miles high, the miles brothers told me to buy. Oh, I think I covered it up, cuz I know I didn't look. There's the picture. I love the stopover look there, yeah, right there. And I was like I had all these like smutty books in my suitcase and I was like should I cover them up? And I'm like, no, I'm gonna embrace that. I like smut.
Speaker 2:I love it. I live for it. The stopover was so good, tl Swann.
Speaker 1:I'm ready, yet Don't. Don't tell me anything.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, tl Swan is magic. All of the miles brothers are amazing. My accountant at my nine to five, who is older than me for sure, we had a moment where we realized we were reading the exact same book from Tl Swan and she was Unglued over the fact that we were reading it at the same time.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm excited I need to do I have it. I went on vacation. I did not read a book the entire time I was there.
Speaker 2:I hope that's just because you relaxed so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:I just I will say this the part that resonated with me about the quote was, like it's kind of like the Taylor Swift effect to you, right? We're being so clear about what we need and what we want, like if you're a man in the same age and you are still confused, you're just not a good listener. I Don't, and I know you're not because I see some of your hinge profiles.
Speaker 1:but Well, I think that a lot of times and I don't actually think this is just a man thing I think a lot of time people Listen to talk and to respond instead of listening to listen. Yeah, so I think that that, and I don't again, I don't think that's just a man thing I think that a lot of most people have become extremely Self-involved, and I think it's just the nature. And again, why are we getting so deep? We just, I think that's just our society now is that we just like we're tunnel vision on what we've got going on and what you know, instead of being Empathetic or understanding?
Speaker 2:I do think the women are naturally attuned to be more nurturing and so we tend to be a little bit more like. I know how much I pay attention to like the people around me and like their little likes and dislikes and needs, and I don't Think that, like I think here's, I won't say men, if you don't prioritize paying attention, they are not gonna be able to take a great care of whoever, whether it's your kids or your spouse for sure.
Speaker 2:You, we could make it back to branding like yeah, the, you have to think about what kind of response you want and then you have to act accordingly. Yeah, yeah, actually saw this quote the other day. That was like if you try to make a brand that everybody likes, no one will like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think like let's gonna dumb that down, because I feel like I follow a lot of marketing companies, agencies, social media folks on Instagram, facebook, linkedin, etc. And everybody talks about branding but nobody really talks about how that helps you as a business. So let's talk through that, because I don't feel like anybody is going to have conversation.
Speaker 2:Let's unpack the first part first. Okay, branding is the easiest hard part. Ooh, branding is the easiest hard part because you don't have to, you're not making anything, you're telling the story of who you are. So you're going to pick a color, you're going to pick a voice, you might pick an icon, you're going to work on your fonts, but then you have this little package that's super pretty, like so good, then what? Right, that's the easy part.
Speaker 2:Branding is the easy part, articulating yourself where it should be and if you have the right branding person or the right marketing person and you have somebody to lead you through that process, it really, really should be, because they're going to give you questions, they're going to talk to you, they're going to invoke a thought process. It should be fairly dialed in, but making the branding part very easy functionally. But then now you have this little thing. Now what?
Speaker 1:Right, and that's kind of my point, because nobody really talks about it and I feel like I'm fairly dialed in to that. Yeah, and so I wanted to get your thoughts, like how do you get your branding to turn to engagement and conversion, like, what are your thoughts there? Do you think this is something we can unpack today, or I?
Speaker 2:think we're going to have to go pretty deep. But I will say this I know exactly what you're saying when you talk about these like social media people I won't even say like social media girls social media people who are constantly talking about your brand, your brand, your brand, and they're giving you this idea that it's like so, so important. Yes, it is Right, but it's not the end, all be all. We know, because we started a brand before we. We had some of that, we had talked about it, but we focused on the doing parts and then we kind of went backwards and then forwards again. But they're doing that because they can execute that. They can hand you a package, they can give you a cost for a package and then they can just move on to the next one and move on to the next one, and some of it's like just like rinse and repeat branding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like it's a process. Right, it's a box you can check in and say you know, I'm done, I've got my brand yeah. I've got my brands, like I've got my colors, I've got my logo Right. But like, if you are a business owner who doesn't know how to implement said brand, like, why is nobody talking about that?
Speaker 2:I know, Well, because it's a lot easier to sell the idea of branding than it is to actually do the work there's a I don't think like. So you and I came from traditional marketing degrees in a traditional marketing space, when we all got AOL at our houses, so we've actually been a part of this process from the beginning. You know like, there were computers in our colleges, for sure, but not everywhere in our high schools, and it certainly wasn't. We weren't on Chromebooks and doing whatever they all know. We. We were on Facebook when you had to be at a college to join. Do you remember this?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Yes, they'd like verify your school email.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Like. That was the only way you, and that was really the first for a before. That was what was the other one that we all love my space.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so we have been like like soup, nuts and bolts or however you say that, all the way through the evolution of social media. Like you're my I don't go on Facebook now because it's just everyone's grandma and great aunt talking about politics. I can't stand it. But like and I'm not wrong, it's why you're laughing so hard I just can't. Why is it so political? I freaking hate it. Like I will do it and I do it for our brands, but like I the whole. Like the fact that somebody gave their grandma a computer and let her just write I had, so I had a friend spoil somebody else's pregnancy and accident, like their their mom talked about.
Speaker 1:I'm like this is you guys shouldn't be here. Listen, I do Facebook only because that's how my family and my husband's family sees pictures of exactly. So that is exactly I don't love it and but they're great source for, like school information.
Speaker 2:Um, and there's a lot of amazing groups that I'm a part of in the evolution, but in the beginning you and I got on because we were in a college period. Yeah, for sure. So we've been able to see this all the way through. So I think we have a lot more of a like, a wide understanding of how big like marketing and branding is not just branding, like I'm sorry, but social media isn't the end all be all of marketing. I think it's very important. I think everybody should have it. We talked about that completely agree.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think we talked about this in episode one or episode two. Like, does everyone need it? Yes, like, and you tried to stop me with it.
Speaker 1:I did. I just told you that funeral homestowning social media.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I was like no, I, I disagree, because I actually worked closely with a funeral home in my nine to five and I know what is your content. What is it your content like loved ones, memories, caring but did you remember?
Speaker 1:we like Googled and we saw that lady with like a selfie Fabric.
Speaker 2:Yes, Fabrics, woods, whatever, Like you I mean. I could go on for days.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm just telling you I would not follow.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't be like, oh, I want to follow this funeral home, no but if you needed to pick one, you would go to social to look at it and check it against everything else. I wouldn't expect them. Oh, this is actually really important to unpack because I I do double check a lot on Instagram from Google. I want to say this because this is important your following does not determine how successful your social media presence is.
Speaker 1:Hey man.
Speaker 2:So I don't think to your point. I would follow the funeral home, but I would go to check and it would give me peace of mind to see that family values or God or whatever was important to them. But I probably wouldn't follow them. And we do have clients who are like well, my following hasn't increased, okay, but your visibility has, and that actually matters more. That was a great point. I'm so glad I got the chance to say that, because I think about this sometimes. I don't think a funeral home is going to have 20,000 followers, no, but I do think that the presence is important. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm glad we got to say that we definitely like that's, that's a thing.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think the people would rather have just like warm bodies as Followers instead of your target audience that you've worked so hard to try to reach through that branding that you paid for.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and you can buy followers. That's why I don't. I really pay absolutely zero mind to how many followers people have, because I Immediately go and I check their actual engagement, even if I just click and follow who like, how many views they get on reels. Like, if you have 60,000 followers and your average real viewership is 4,000. I'm telling you right now your audience is not engaged. You're either a liar and you bought those followers or they're all dead and they just haven't paid enough attention to delete from yours.
Speaker 1:Do you unfollow brands?
Speaker 2:I do, and I will say this also because I want to make this point. I usually, I typically decide that the trust level is about 20 percent, like 20 to 40 percent. So, like, if you have 5,000 followers and you're getting 2,500 to 17,000 views on every reel, I feel good about that. I know that your people are actually engaged to you. If that makes sense, yeah, like, because ideally, one in every eight reels of yours has significantly more than your following, because that means Instagram still sharing you to a bigger audience, or your message is getting a little bit bigger. So I like to see those big numbers too sometimes, but it's okay to see half or a little bit less than half average on reels. That's still a really engaged audience. It's where I start seeing numbers that are like 10% or lower, where I'm like that you bought those followers, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you can buy followers that give automatic likes. You know this. No, oh, uh-huh. So you can pay for, because it's all AI now, in some ways, it's all bought, but you can pay for a certain amount of followers and they'll automate it's an automatic like every time you post. So when you see people that are like always have like recently increased, let's say, by 3,000 followers, and there's always 300 ish likes on every post.
Speaker 2:That's some major bot activity.
Speaker 1:I just don't understand the public. It just seems so asinine to me because as a business person I'm like I could give to you donkey Kongs About how many likes I have. If it isn't converting to business and revenue for me, 100% Like, what in the hell does it matter? And I think this is really important. I am a marketing person.
Speaker 2:I get it social media.
Speaker 1:I have a love-hate relationship with it, to be quite honest, at the end of the day, like to me, it's like is it bringing business in the door, whether that's through social, is it through email marketing, is it through SEO? Like there's just not. I feel like we are just consumed by all this information from All of these, and maybe it's just the people I follow, but it seems like that's all they talk about is bringing.
Speaker 2:I think this is like the perfect way to like wrap this up like that. What you're talking about, what I'm talking about, with the bots, that's about vanity. Okay right, those are vanity metrics. There's a lot of vanity metrics that are part of social media. Branding in some ways, is about vanity. Ooh Right, we're unpacking this right now. This is happening right now.
Speaker 2:But, like, branding is the most vanity metric based part of owning a business. Hmm, because you can have beautiful branding but that doesn't mean anything. And there's a ton of people who create branding because branding is relatively easy to create and I'm sure they're up in arms right now because I said that. But it's not about that. Like, you can have a great business that has no branding. I actually made a video about branding. I didn't have a great business that has no branding. I actually met a business the other day that is an antique hardware store. It's been open for 125 years. Zero branding. They have the logo that who knows where it came from on their door. No branding, because they built their entire Empire on how they show up and work ethic and how people believed in them in word of mouth, but branding itself is a vanity metric.
Speaker 1:I Think that's a great point and that's exactly where I was trying to go with this.
Speaker 2:It's just more of like I don't get it like I don't ever articulated it like that before, like I just hit me yeah, I think about I.
Speaker 1:Don't get it. Yeah, I don't see why that's that's become the the benchmark for establishing this successful business.
Speaker 2:I'm writing this down because this is like amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't feel like this is gonna be our last conversation about this, because I feel like it's Something. Enough is a business owner for somebody who probably doesn't have the headspace in marketing and sales that we do. I think it would be really helpful to Figure out a way to articulate how branding translate into conversion and engagement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think about that.
Speaker 1:I mean buying and spending money, yeah like revenue.
Speaker 2:Yes success, like we actually have success based metrics, just like we do in social media, which we're gonna share more of on gritty. But there are ways that you actually measure success and a brand guide is not one of them.
Speaker 1:Hmm, I love it.
Speaker 2:What a good. I know we took a little side turn there into romance novels and love, but unfortunately, fortunately but we brought it full circle here. No, I mean, I think it all Matters, it's just I've never really thought about it that way. I myself am shook right now. Interesting.
Speaker 1:I love this. I love our deep, deep talks. I know we have no chill lately, I know romance novels.
Speaker 2:But we'll have like remember our season finale of.
Speaker 1:We'll get wine drunk and play questions, and then that's a bubble bus. We will Unleash the fury, we'll get champagne and we'll have a little bubble buzz. A season one, season finale. I love it. Okay, I wouldn't ever see it, it'd be 12. Should we make this?
Speaker 2:decision right now. I'm not ready. I think it's gonna be 12.
Speaker 1:12 is like my lucky number. Is it because I thought we're?
Speaker 2:what about, like 13, taylor Swift.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm looking for me. I'm not ready, okay.
Speaker 2:Let's let the people vote. Okay, 15 stays in my head. It's like a nine. Okay, 15 stays in my head, it's like a nice round.
Speaker 1:Don't say even, because that is an odd number.
Speaker 2:I just like. I like the way a five looks, okay. So here's the thing. I have this thing on my wall. We're gonna be done in two seconds, but it's. I'm a big like fan of like numbers and numerology, mm-hmm. Okay, so it's numbers one through six, and number one is about intuition. Number two is about alignment. So when you see a bunch of twos, three is about support, for is about protection, five is change and six is reflection. So maybe number 16 is the last one that seems like a really long season we're already 10 in.
Speaker 2:We got a True.
Speaker 1:Okay. We're not gonna worry y'all with these details, but it's a lot of so well, you can vote. All right, guys. Thank you all so much for tuning in. Don't forget to follow our Instagram page at marketing and mayhem. If you like what we are talking about, we would love a five star review. If you don't, don't leave us a bad review and tell us to fix it. All right. Thank you guys. Thanks guys.