Leadership, Mentorship, and Innovation: Martha's Breithaupt's Impact on Science and Business in Canada

On today’s episode we welcome Martha Breithaupt. We talk about innovation, the dangers of the ‘broken rung’ as an obstacle women face on the path to senior leadership, the state of science, Martha’s newest venture, which is devoted to innovation in both the science and business sectors and R&D tax credits, which are more interesting than you might think!

We also talk about the importance of mentorship. Martha shares her personal journey of actively seeking mentors throughout her career and how building a diverse network and actively seeking guidance from experienced professionals can significantly enhance a leader's growth trajectory.

Martha is an innovator and non-dilutive funding expert with over two decades of experience as a thought leader, speaker, board member, and tax practitioner.

Connect with Martha
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Resources
State of Science
Profound Impact

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Chapters

• 0:00 Non-Dilutive Funding for Science and Business
• 9:13 Board Work and Gender Representation
• 20:18 Transitioning Careers and Supporting Women's Leadership
• 27:53 Seeking and Building Mentorship Relationships

Transcript

Amy: 1:12

Hi Martha,

Amy: 1:17

I'm great. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks for having me. I've been really looking forward to our conversation. We don't know each other all that well, but really just through IWF, so I'm very excited to hear your stories. Your career path is very interesting and unique. As a result, I have a lot of questions. Why don't we start with some generalities? You work mostly in science and tech and you also work to help companies with funding and, I'm assuming, other things. How do you help companies, then in that way?

Martha: 1:50

Yeah, that's exactly right. I'm basically a blend of both science and business. I help companies access funding from the government, primarily for market expansion, innovation and hiring and training so to make them more competitive here in Canada.

Amy: 2:05

Is it government funding on the federal and provincial level, then?

Martha: 2:09

That's right. Yeah, so there's different programs really across the board. Many of the provinces would have their own programs where they're trying to attract certain industries, but also the federal government has many, many programs that are trying to support innovation in our country. It's just an understanding of all of those and then helping our clients to access them. So first of all, know about them but then file them. That's what I've done for a lot, a lot of years.

Amy: 2:35

Do you work more with startups or more established companies, or both?

Martha: 2:40

Yeah, so funding is available really across the board. Currently, the main program that I worked in was the Scientific Research and Experimental Development Tax Credit Program, and that program really favors what we would call Canadian controlled private corporations. So those can be startups. They can be, though, very well established, extremely large multinational companies as well, but primarily the program does favor those companies that are Canadian controlled in order to help them really innovate and grow our economy.

Amy: 3:16

And I read that you and this is one thing I don't understand you work with, or you work to try to establish them Diluted funding. Is that correct or non-diluted funding? Sorry?

Martha: 3:26

Non-diluted yeah exactly.

Amy: 3:29

Yeah, so can you tell us a little bit about what that is?

Martha: 3:32

For sure. Yeah, yeah, and that's a great point. So in the world of business, like when you're going out to build a company effectively, you need money, and so you can get that kind of one of two ways. Well, one of three ways. Either you have it yourself, if you don't, you have to go out to market. And so going out to the market, we would call that dilutive funding. So it's diluting your ownership as an owner in the business. Non-diluted funding would be things like government grants, where they will provide you with cash, tax credits, loans, highly competitive rates that allow you to grow your business, but without having to give up any of your ownership, your capital equity, as they call it. So that's just the difference. And, yes, they always specialized in the non-dilutive side, really to try to keep those businesses Canadian for as long as possible, so grow internally before they had to go out to market or out to venture capital or private equity, that kind of thing, yeah.

Amy: 4:33

So if that's your work you do, you help with government funding then from a company sort of revenue standpoint, how do you generate revenue then?

Martha: 4:43

So this was in my old firm. So I actually grew three successive R&D tax credit consulting practices.

Martha: 4:50

And all of them really operated under the same kind of business model, which is the same business model as the entire R&D tax credit kind of practice in Canada, which is under the contingency fee structure. So effectively the work is done. So the work to put forward a claim for a lot of these companies it's not a small amount, so it requires technical report writing, it requires job costing of all the R&D work done in a year, and then it requires inputting that into the tax return as well across a number of forms that affect the overall taxable situation of the company. And so all of this expert knowledge unfortunately doesn't come for free, and so that percentage, exactly that percentage that the consulting world takes at the end of the day from those claims, is typically meant to cover all of that effort, and so that's really how the overall structure works.

Amy: 5:42

And you mentioned your previous job. I know you spent a lot of time at Grant Thornton right, that's right and I read that you were a senior manager and then a partner and then a board member, so I found that very interesting. So can you tell us a little bit about your career path there and how it helped you get where you are today?

Martha: 6:02

My career journey is really built upon itself since I graduated university. So I've always stayed in the same field of R&D tax credit consulting and during that time when I first started out from university, I would say the first seven years I was with a boutique tax firm and what they did is really helped me to build that expert knowledge. So that dedicated focus of preparing the claims, of delivering the work, of writing those reports day in and day out for a number of years really allowed me to hold my expert ability. But then after that I transitioned over from that boutique firm, which was wonderful, but over to what we've called one of the big four accounting firms. So I went over to Deloitte, which was again a wonderful organization, and what that allowed me to do is really take that expert knowledge but then apply it to much larger and I would say much more complex and sophisticated clients and also much larger multinational kind of client base. The other thing it really allowed me to experience was the learning and development opportunities that a larger firm would have along with that network, so understanding of the people across the country that could help me reach out to clients across various industries. So that was that was great.

Martha: 7:18

But then coming to Grand Theft Auto, and really where I've spent the last decade of my time was bringing both of those things to bear.

Martha: 7:27

So I was able to really take a lot of the entrepreneurial things that I learned at the boutique tax firm and apply them into Grand Theft Auto, because at the time, 10 years ago, the firm was much, much different, it was growing and so it gone through a lot and lot of change in that 10 years. But it allowed me to see those processes and build them up along with the company as it grew. And so in that kind of 10 year timeframe I did join as a senior manager, as you said, but then I was made quickly made a partner, and so that's a partner in the partnership of Grant Thornton and then over that kind of five years I was able just to show kind of that continued success in the practice that allowed me to be elected to the partnership board for the last five years and that was a great, great experience as well. So just a phenomenal time that I had over that 20, I guess two plus years now, yeah, so it seems like it's quite a niche.

Amy: 8:22

So you said you've been in the same field since university. Did you learn about the niche at the boutique firm or did you know in university that it was something you wanted to pursue? That's a great question, so I did not know the program I wish I had, because I would have fell in love with it even sooner.

Martha: 8:39

So it is a phenomenal program and it really is that blend of science and business that I had taken at university. So my undergraduate degree was actually in biochemistry at Waterloo as well as business. So we took a lot of our business classes down at Laurier. Transitioning into the world of work and R&D tax credit consulting was there for very simple for me, because I understood the science and I understood the technology that was going on on a lot of these companies and the shop floors. But I also was able to digest the financial and the job costing and the taxes and all that kind of stuff. So I wish I had, which is why right now.

Martha: 9:13

I do go out and I do do a lot of speaking engagements and so just this past weekend I was out at the University of Guelph and they're laying School of Business and their tax conference, their student tax conference, and my gosh, what a group. So these are 100 students that I came out on a Saturday morning of all things which surprised me to learn about taxes.

Martha: 9:33

Yeah, exactly, from across kind of southwestern Ontario, so it was very neat. They brought together a lot of the business and tax schools. There was great presentations and just exactly that. So they're learning about this knowledge. So I was able to share with them about R&D tax credits, about government funding, grants that are available, because it's going to be those individuals or future tax and business leaders that are going to be able to take this stuff out and really bring it to market for our clients and businesses in Canada. So, yeah, yeah, definitely try to get the word out as key for sure.

Amy: 10:06

So you mentioned you're on the board at the partnership board at Grant Thornton. I know you're very involved in the community. You're also on a variety of other boards, correct? Yes, that's right. So how do you decide which boards you want to be involved with?

Martha: 10:22

That's a great question. So initially I would have started with boards where I had a connection, and I think the reason why I started out that way with my board work is it's kind of a soft landing. It allows you to ask the questions behind the scenes of a colleague or a person that you kind of trust already, and so I would say that I had really good experiences and my first board work as a result of that. But over time, as I've grown in my career, more opportunities presented themselves and I would find myself having more friends on various organizations, and that was great. But you can't say yes to everything. So now I really much later in my career I really select organizations where I truly enjoy them and I can make an impact in some manner, a difference. So that's kind of how I do it right now.

Amy: 11:17

So what's one organization you're working with currently?

Martha: 11:20

So right now we have the International Women's Forum, so I'll give the IWF a lovely shout out. Yeah, so I'm the current vice chair and treasurer of the local Waterloo chapter and I find this organization has been so immensely rewarding for me personally. I again wish. I'd known about it sooner, in the sense that the individuals that I've managed to come across during my time on both the executive team and then just an event attendance has been phenomenal. So I've had a chance to learn from others, I've had a chance to seek advice and also share experiences, so that's been phenomenal.

Martha: 11:56

And then also the Canada Connects conference. I got to say that was a highlight of my time so far with the IWF last summer, so this was just a wonderful experience. And again, the learnings and the shared connection that you get from now the both national membership and international membership I've just found so very rewarding. So I'm really enjoying that right now for sure.

Amy: 12:18

That's good. We're glad you're doing it, because you're doing some great things to help the chapter do all the things that it does, so it's good. I have a bit of a longer question related to board work. I think this was a couple of years ago, but I read an article and I think you were quoted in it, and you were talking about how there's no required framework on gender reporting at the board level or the executive level in Canada, and it also mentioned that in Europe, in European countries, there are mandated requirements for board representation at the gender level. What are your thoughts and personal experiences with regard to the number of women represented on boards?

Martha: 12:53

Yeah, well, so I had just, actually this past month, completed my ICD designation. Congratulations, thank you, thank you. And so, in that course, we actually do a lot of data review around this topic and the concept of our quotas, just in general, whether they're for gender or race or other issues. What is the effect? And is this something that we want in our society, on our boards? And so I think what Europe has done has definitely moved the needle, because we can see change happening here in the numbers in North America, but it's not happening at the pace and speed that it has already happened in Europe. And so I'm going back and forth and you can tell the verb tenses that I'm using of how can it happening and happened. And so I'm not against it. I do understand, you know. I think there's an underlying problem and that's not the glass ceiling of let's get these talented and professional women there.

Martha: 13:57

It's that broken wrong concept of if junior women are not able to progress and be promoted to manager, they are never going to get to executive if they can't get to manager, and so it's that broken wrong that I think we need to fix to make sure that we maintain that kind of 50% breakout at the junior, mid management and then senior level.

Amy: 14:21

So that's interesting, because I think if you asked most people they would assume that, quote unquote, the issues for women at the junior level had been fixed. So for you to call out that broken wrong, what do you see that? That it still persists.

Martha: 14:37

I think there's probably a lack of again because we don't have representation at the senior levels, junior women still not identifying with themselves at an executive level. So if we don't have women able to have a full, complete life outside of the office, whatever that may look like to that professional, we're not going to be able to show that full, complete life to the junior teammates. So I think there's a little bit of modeling that has to happen. There's got to be a lot more championing, I think, by our senior leaders that have made it. I know they're probably already tired and exhausted and they've done a lot to get there, but I think it's now on us to again continue to fight this battle for women, especially now.

Amy: 15:25

So then, to build leaders and grow ourselves as leaders. What do you think are the qualities that make up a successful leader?

Martha: 15:33

I think, definitely communication. So number one. Number one is communication, so being able to convey not only your ideas but listen and accept others, as I think what I mean by communication. I think after that you need to have a level of understanding or empathy around various people's situations, while balancing the organization's requirements. So I would say that's been a fine line that I've always found within my own career, across different levels, again, as I was promoted as well. That changes your dynamic, obviously, with colleagues and coworkers and senior peers, and so I would think that, just overall, you need to have that balance of maintaining empathy for your teammates.

Martha: 16:18

that you are leading, but while maintaining those objectives of your company.

Amy: 16:25

And you've worked with so many companies over the years, and personally I believe that leadership is like a skill, like writing or playing a sport and whatnot. So, through your experience, what do you think the best way to develop leadership skills is? Because I think sometimes women think I need to learn this, or any leader for that matter, and they don't know how to access the resources or where to improve their skills or learn what skills they may need to develop.

Martha: 16:52

Yeah, one of the big things that I've always been a huge proponent of is taking on any additional learning or training that is ever provided to you. So within every organization that I've been on, I have always said yes to the events that would be considered learning and development, so LND events, where you're getting a certification or you've attended something and you can now check a box and say that you've done this. Because what I found is you get that knowledge, but then it's the application of that knowledge that allows you then to reinforce what you've learned over time.

Amy: 17:29

On the idea of improving our certifications and learning wherever we can. I think I read correctly as well. You have a European Quality Award, coaching, designation and mentoring Is that correct?

Martha: 17:41

Yes, that's right. Yeah, Can you?

Amy: 17:42

tell us about that. It sounds very interesting.

Martha: 17:46

It was, yeah, and that's an exact example of taking advantage of the courses that were presented to me. So that was during my time at Grant-Forten, and the firm had a very strong push on developing their partners as leaders, so trying to ensure that the people we had at the front of the bus are taking those passengers all of our junior teammates down the right path. And the reason being is because those junior teammates they're coming straight out of university. So at the end of the day, you have to remember, these are people's sons and daughters that have just completed their education and now they're joining the workforce, some of them for the very first time ever, and there is a lot to learn.

Martha: 18:31

And so this program was one of many that the firm offered, provided also designation, and so throughout the program we had numerous sessions with the partner groups where we would all get together. I think there's four or five sessions, a way session. So this was a huge investment from the firm, from both a time and, obviously, a dollar perspective. But then we were actually required to do coaching, and so what? Yeah, so we had lots and lots of coaching. So I think it was four separate counsellors and each counselling we had to coach for six hours each across an entire year, so each session was, I think, an hour and a half, so it was a fairly substantive coaching commitment and that's what made it stick was the practice, so that level and volume of frequency and coaching.

Martha: 19:19

And it was just an amazing journey because at the end of it.

Martha: 19:22

After that year, you were able to write a dissertation, and this was something of everything that you've learned about your coaching experience and what you thought at the start and at the end, and I found this dissertation was just so much fun because it had me going back into my notes and seeing the assumptions that I had made at the start of my journey about coaching or these tools and how they actually worked in practice, and so I just I love that process, and so I submitted my dissertation and they did grant me that certification. Yes, so that was the European Mentoring and Coaching Council.

Amy: 19:56

Congratulations. That's such a great program Wow.

Martha: 19:58

Oh, it was phenomenal, it was really great. And the connections that you build again, both with the instructors and then with the partners that you're now working day in and day out, so it gives you a different lens from when you're dealing with them on business issues, as well as then taking those coaching methodologies back into your team. So, yeah, it was just a really great experience.

Amy: 20:18

You mentioned earlier speaking engagements. I know that you do a bunch of that and I also know that my understanding is you're involved with profound impact. Is that correct? That's?

Martha: 20:27

right, yes.

Amy: 20:28

So tell us a little bit about what you're doing today, because I know you've transitioned out of Grant Thornton and are you consulting and speaking on your own, as well as profound impact.

Martha: 20:38

That's right. Yeah, so all of the above, yeah, we're to begin, yes, so maybe I'll start with profound impact. So it's a great organization run by Dr Sheri Shannon Vanstong, yes, and so she's had a number of successful tech startups already, and so this venture essentially is the intersection of academia, funding and industry, and so what they have developed is an AI based tool that brings together all the funding. So this is that non dilutive funding that we're talking about earlier, all of that funding that's available for academia so colleges and universities, research institutions and industry.

Martha: 21:18

So bringing and marrying them together, because a lot of times the funding that universities have access to they need an industry partner for, and so it's finding those industry partners and making that match is what the research impact tool does.

Amy: 21:30

Can you give us an example of how it might work?

Martha: 21:33

Yeah, yeah. So essentially a company. So a business let's say an automotive tier one supplier would enter in their intake form. They would say that they are a business, that they have a project that they would like to be worked on and they submit that into our tool and then it matches with a university or college in that field that has funding available to undertake that project. So that way that business could say, OK, great Off we go, let's do our project with this college and we have a budget of $100,000 and let's make this happen. So it's a pretty quick match.

Amy: 22:10

It's a relatively new company, is that correct?

Martha: 22:12

That's right. Yeah, it has been around for five years, but the research impact tool is brand new.

Amy: 22:18

That's congratulations. So how long have you been with the company then?

Martha: 22:24

So just, I guess, three months now. So just in the summer they closed a $3 million around funding, so I joined shortly after that. Got a couple of demonstrations in the hopper with universities and colleges right now as they build out their next phase of the tool. But we are doing great and accepting new industry clients every day.

Amy: 22:46

And so I gather your role isn't completely flushed out. But what have you been doing with the company since you started?

Martha: 22:52

Yeah, so I'm really helping them define what engaging industry looks like. So how can they onboard clients to the tool? How can they help support industry to make those matches happen faster? How can they get industry to work more closely with colleges and universities?

Amy: 23:09

And then the speaking and consulting outside of profound impact. So are you doing both, then, at the same time?

Martha: 23:15

Yes, that's right. So I do do speaking in the agents as well, just having finished that one this past weekend at the University of Guelph and that was a really great group of students that we had out. But then also I've started a production company called the State of Science, and so State of Science, we go out and we interview industry so we'll review their technology, walk through their shop floor and see their science really close up on video, and then we react to it. So we have SOS REACTS and that's with college and university professors, students and industry coming together to see what they're watching on SOS shorts.

Amy: 23:53

And have they been published yet, or are they to be published?

Martha: 23:57

To be published so we will be launching in the new year?

Amy: 24:00

Yes, in the new year. Alright, we'll have to look out for that for sure.

Martha: 24:03

Please do.

Amy: 24:04

And the shorts, the reactive shorts, are they something that anybody could watch and anybody could understand and enjoy?

Martha: 24:12

So essentially SOS shorts is not how it's made but how they make it. So it's really a behind-the-scenes tour of the shop, the plant floor, by the people themselves that work on the technology and do the cool science behind the scenes, and so, as they describe it, then we flip over to do SOS REACTS and that's where we have a bit of a panel breakdown, what they've just watched and seen. And so, yes, we definitely make it accessible to all audiences, but it's primarily geared towards anyone interested in tech and the world of science here in Canada.

Amy: 24:47

And when you do publish it, will it be on YouTube mostly, or elsewhere as well?

Martha: 24:51

That's right. Yeah, we were planning to launch on YouTube, linkedin, as well as on Canada's podcast.

Amy: 24:58

With regard to your speaking engagements. How do you decide where to speak or how do you get invited to speak somewhere?

Martha: 25:04

Usually it's just people are reaching out. So typically my talks tend to be around innovation, board governance as well as teaming and leadership. So I try to weave in kind of my experience and business in consulting and growing the past three firms. So from that perspective and the teamwork alongside that has really gone on with that, so the coaching certification we talked about kind of weaves into there as well. But from an innovation perspective.

Martha: 25:35

There's just so much happening in Canada, so those discussions tend to be more driven around articles, so topics, trends, so issues as they arrive, as opposed to more. The leadership discussions are a bit more organic and just reach outs.

Amy: 25:49

That sounds like a lot of fun. Have you always been comfortable speaking, or is it something you've had to work at?

Martha: 25:54

I would say a bit of both. So it does come naturally. I enjoy, I do enjoy public speaking, which I guess is not normal for most people. I do still get nervous. I would say I do enjoy it. Having said that, definitely lots of practice so practice makes perfect is kind of my go-to for when it comes to public speaking. That, and then just remembering that people are actually interested in what you have to say. So just be confident and be calm and it will all be fine.

Amy: 26:25

It will all be fine, famous last words. That's right, exactly. I have one last question for you. We talked a little bit about you know broken rung and young leaders and how you work with companies and how you help people all the time. So what do you think is next for women's leadership in general?

Martha: 26:43

Oh, that's a very tough question. I would like to see more alley-ship. So I would love to see and we did kind of touch upon this earlier but more mentoring at those junior levels, so pairing up more senior women with juniors so that they can really have that go-to person that maybe they don't see within their own organization or within their own department. Even I'm a big fan of cross departmental coaching. So my advice always is if you don't see someone in your team that's like you or that you'd want to be like, maybe reach out to someone who you do want to be like, and so I would say that's been.

Martha: 27:23

Another huge benefit in my career is I've had a lot of male mentors who've done phenomenal things to support me and my career over the years, and so that's why I'd call it alley-ship. So I think it's incumbent on both male and female leaders today to help out those junior women, to really support them and understand that, yes, there is a career path here for you. It might look different from mine, but let's help to get you there. So I think there's there's more we can do.

Amy: 27:51

And I love the topic of mentorship. So when you were young, did you reach out to get a mentor, or were you able to have someone approach you?

Martha: 28:00

I did both. Yeah, so I definitely did both. So throughout my career I was blessed to be able to have direct conversations with C-suite individuals by the nature of the work that I was doing. So because I was filing these R&D tax credit claims, I was having to talk to CFOs and CTOs and CEOs on a daily basis. So that gave me the confidence then to do a couple of things. One is to actively seek out a mentor, and so I did. He was a consulting manager or consulting partner, I should say, at the Business Development Bank of Canada Unfortunately he has since passed, but just a tremendous mentor from a sales, business development relationship building perspective. So I learned a ton from him and he was just a huge supporter throughout my entire career. So I had worked with him at the original boutique firm right at the start of my professional journey and he was actually one of my references at my most recent journey at Grant Thornton. So I kind of definitely those mentors do stick with you and you can just learn so much from their decades of experience. So that's what I've encouraged there.

Martha: 29:12

But the other facet, beyond kind of seeking out and building those relationships yourself, is to enter programs, and so before I had developed that connection.

Martha: 29:22

I actually entered into a program by the Women's Executive Network it was called their Prodigy Founder Prodigy Program Prodigy 2, I think and in that program it was forcing that connection to happen. You would apply in to be paired up with one of Canada's top 100 women that were on this WXN Top 100 Women list. I applied in and was granted a spot in this coveted program and paired up with the CFO, so a very, extremely talented female financial leader who has since gone on to do some really cool things. And that again gave me a different view, a different understanding, a new line of sight to a senior career that was now outside of my typical field of R&D tax credit consulting. So again, to see a senior woman excelling in her field and to learn and understand some of the things that she has done and how to get there really tremendously helped me. So I think, yeah, for me it was definitely a blend of both actively seek and then also get assigned a mentor.

Amy: 30:26

I love what you said about cross-departmental mentorship. I think that that's a really beneficial thing For young leaders who would like to seek out a mentor. What advice do you have for them to go about doing that if they don't have access similar to you did on a daily basis, or you know? Their trepidation is about how to open that conversation about seeking out mentorship.

Martha: 30:49

Yeah, and I would say you have to start building your network somewhere. So if you have, like, if you're a student let's say you're a student and you're looking to be mentored by a senior professional person, well, first ask. You know, maybe it's ask a parent or ask a friend's, you know, parent, do you have anyone in your network that would look like this role or this person or this type of job that I want to have? And so I would say, definitely leverage the existing network that you have.

Martha: 31:19

And then, after that, I would say try to attend events that are within that field or area of interest. There's a lot of free events run by universities, accelerators, incubators that you can just show up and go to and again have access to both resources but then also again that network. So if you don't have a network to build a draw from, those are. That's definitely a great place to start would be at those kinds of ice elevators.

Amy: 31:44

That's great advice, thank you. Thank you for talking with us today, martha. Your journey and stories were very interesting. I learned a lot today.

Martha: 31:52

Thanks for having me.

Amy: 31:53

And good luck with all your work. With speaking and profound impact, I'm very excited to see how that progresses forward.

Martha: 32:01

Thank you, I appreciate it very much.

Amy: 32:06

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