Erin Eilers - The Importance of HR for Small Home Services Businesses

Erin Eilers, owner and founder of the Eilers HR Group, discusses the importance of HR for small businesses and provides insights on common HR challenges. She emphasizes the need for small businesses to classify employees correctly, follow employment laws, and have clear policies in place. Erin also highlights the significance of enforcing policies consistently and making sure employee handbooks are up to date. She advises small business owners to prioritize integrity and compliance to avoid legal issues and protect their businesses. In this conversation, Erin Eilers and Branden Sewell discuss various HR topics that small business owners should be aware of. They cover issues such as employee accountability, onboarding, background checks, drug tests, PTO policies, compensation plans, and the importance of positive feedback. Erin provides valuable insights and recommendations for handling these HR challenges.

Takeaways

• Small businesses need to classify employees correctly and follow employment laws to avoid legal issues.
• Enforcing policies consistently and having clear employee handbooks are crucial for small businesses.
• Prioritizing integrity and compliance is essential for small business owners to protect their businesses.
• Consulting with an HR professional can provide expertise and guidance for small businesses at a fraction of the cost of a full-time HR director. Hold employees accountable for their actions and address any issues promptly
• Referrals are a great way to find reliable employees
• Document important communications and requests to employees
• Set clear expectations and provide ongoing support during the onboarding process
• Consider using third-party companies for background checks and drug tests
• Create a fair and consistent compensation plan and communicate it clearly to employees
• Positive feedback is free and goes a long way in making employees feel valued
• Be transparent about the company's financial situation when discussing compensation
• Utilize resources like SCORE for additional business support

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Transcript

Branden Sewell (00:01.13)
Hi everybody, I am Brandon Sewell. I am the owner of Seal Pro Painting and now also Seal Pro Seal and Wash located in central Florida. I'm also the host of the Off the Ladder podcast. We exist to help home service business owners learn.

so that they can lead well and ultimately live life off of the latter. Today's guest is Erin Eilers. She is the owner and founder of the Eilers HR Group. So welcome to the show, Erin. I'm excited to jump into this topic today.

Erin Eilers (00:34.242)
Thank you, so am I. Excuse me.

Branden Sewell (00:37.078)
Yeah, it was a pleasure to get to meet you. I believe it was last week, right? Through a networking event here in Titusville. And I just quickly expressed, and as a small home service business owner, I've been a small business owner now for going on eight years. And as a small business, you don't really have access, I think, to...

Erin Eilers (00:42.807)
Right.

Branden Sewell (01:04.494)
HR professionals in the same way that these huge corporations do with big budgets to be able to afford full-time HR staff and all that. When I met you, I was like, oh my goodness, small businesses need this. I'm excited to jump into just different topics with HR, but could you give the listeners really quick an introduction to HR?

yourself, your business, your background and tell them a little bit about yourself.

Erin Eilers (01:39.384)
Sure. I'm a native Floridian. I've bounced around from Pinellas County, Palm Beach County, and now we're here in Broward. I've been in human resources working for other people for 25 years. The past two years, I've been doing consulting on my own. I recognize that HR can be either a strategic partner or a necessary evil in your organization. When you're partnering with HR as a partner,

They can help to identify areas that can help your culture, can help your employee engagement, can increase the satisfaction that your employees will have with their jobs. So I also am a very, legal compliance is really my wheelhouse. I've got a master's in employment law. So I like to help small to medium sized businesses comply with the law. A lot of times the owner of the business does the HR and they don't always have a good handle on what

the requirements are legally so I can help small businesses on a fractional HR basis, providing them with the expertise of an HR professional at a fraction of the cost of a full-time HR director.

Branden Sewell (02:49.594)
awesome. Now, can you help people remotely or do you just specifically service clients locally?

Erin Eilers (02:56.638)
I can do either. I've got some clients that as far as way, far away as Nebraska. So I can do both remote and in person.

Branden Sewell (03:03.797)
Okay.

Awesome.

Branden Sewell (03:09.87)
Yeah, and to your point, as a small business owner, I don't have any type of degree in HR or anything like that. So as a small home service business, it can be really challenging, especially when you get into situations where you feel like employees become combative or like they're defensive about how you're doing things and you're laying up at night and you're like,

I feel like I'm just trying to do the best that I can and yet I feel so threatened by people who sometimes you feel like they want to take advantage of you or what you don't know. So that can be definitely, I think, a stress for small home services. So it sounds like you're able to step in and provide some relief in that sense and answer some of those questions that might come up.

Erin Eilers (04:06.622)
Right, I think as a society, we've kind of gotten a little bit afraid of reacting to our employees or being afraid of what you can say and what you can't say. And realistically, there's a lot that goes on that you have more power than you know as the employer. I've seen businesses where they kind of get run around the nose with by the employees. And as an employer, you do have, it's your business. So you've got a lot more power than you think you do.

There's just ways of, if you're going to take action, you should protect yourself. And I can share some of those ways with you.

Branden Sewell (04:36.866)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (04:43.146)
Yeah, we'll jump into that. You know, I was listening to a podcast this morning. I listened to the Entrez Leadership Podcast, which is a Dave Ramsey podcast. And the title of the podcast this morning, let me read it verbatim, was, Is My Team Taking Advantage of Me? And you know, that's a place that I think small business owners can feel sometimes.

you know, like you just mentioned, sometimes we may feel like, you know, powerless or, you know, and I think it's just not knowing. So could you, for the listeners, maybe jump into like, what are some of the most common questions that you might receive from small home service business, or I keep saying home service because that's what, that's my niche, but just small business owners in general, what would be the most common questions you get, concerns?

and things like that and how can business owners prepare themselves to tackle those HR related issues or concerns.

Erin Eilers (05:53.71)
Sure. The biggest thing I see right when people ask me for help is to review their employee handbook and make sure that they have got all the bases covered for the things that they need. One thing I don't think people always understand is that we've got all these employment laws. We've got the Affordable Care Act and we've got FMLI, Family Medical Leave Act. They don't apply to you unless you have a certain number of employees. So a lot of times, employees just assume that you're bound to follow...

You're bound to provide health insurance if you, you know, you've only got 10 employees. There's a lot of that misconception. And some of the other things have to do with Fair Labor Standards Act and properly classifying your employees so that you're, you're paying them correctly. Those are two big.

Branden Sewell (06:41.336)
Yeah, that's-

That's good. So, let's say a business that has, you just mentioned, 10 or less employees. For myself, I've got currently five employees and a couple subcontractors that do work for me. But could you jump into, for a small business...

What are some of, let's say, you know, maybe there's somebody listening to this now and they have no employees and they're looking to make some of their first hires. They're looking to maybe go from, you know, our podcast is all about helping home service business centers get out of the field and work on their business instead of in it. And with that process, you have to hire on people to do the work and do the labor. What are some of like the...

things that they should be keeping at the front of their mind when hiring some of their first employees and really get a good start with some of their first hires and have a great foundation. What are some of the best practices that you would recommend and things that you would suggest doing just getting started?

Erin Eilers (07:58.126)
Okay, sure. One of the biggest things that I see, and I totally understand why this happens, but there are very specific criteria that you need to follow in order to hire somebody as a 1099 contractor. And I see a lot of businesses that, while you need to have somebody that's gonna like do your scheduling or pay your bills for you, and they're going to actually work for you in your place of business with your...

your equipment, your materials, and they want to pay them like they're a contractor. Well, if you're directing their work, they're not a contractor and they're using your stuff and they're working eight to five. And so I see that as one of the bigger things. Of course, it's easier to pay people as a contractor versus an employee because you have to set up tax accounts and you have to set up your all of these different things to keep that ball rolling. But that's a big one is paying people.

Branden Sewell (08:44.814)
Mm-hmm.

Erin Eilers (08:55.494)
as contractors when they should be employees. And there's some very specific criteria for that distinction. Sure. There's a lot. Okay. So like I mentioned before, having control over what they're doing, it's different if somebody says, Hey, Erin, here's my employee handbook. Would you please review this for me? Well, I can do that as a contractor because number one, I'm going to do it on my time. I may have a deadline and hopefully I'll try to get it done as soon as I can. But.

Branden Sewell (09:01.25)
Yeah, jump into that.

Erin Eilers (09:23.07)
I don't have to go into their office and sit in their computer and 8 to 5 work on a specific project at their direction. Generally, a contractor is bringing some kind of specialized knowledge that they won't need training from the business owner because it's something that they already know how to do. Contractors pay, of course, pay their own taxes. They don't receive any kind of benefits from the employer other than payment for the services that they give.

Branden Sewell (09:42.424)
Mm-hmm.

Erin Eilers (09:52.558)
Expenses can be included also as a contractor. So it's very distinct. The employee does what the employer says when they say to do it with the employer's materials. The contractor does their own and they bill for the services that they provide. It's definitely easier to have contractors than it is to have employees. However, the IRS doesn't care.

that you didn't know. So if it ends up that somebody terminates this relationship or you terminate them and they say, well, I'm gonna go file for unemployment. And they go to unemployment, hey, guess what, you're not an employee. So then what about the overtime that they worked? What about like any kind, if you did have employees, what other laws are you obligated to provide for? Like, I mean, so it's...

Branden Sewell (10:43.83)
Yeah, workers comp is another big one.

Erin Eilers (10:47.742)
Right. So if you don't...

Branden Sewell (10:49.202)
Well, on our end as a home service business owner, yeah.

Erin Eilers (10:52.61)
Well, I mean, in the state of Florida, and depending on the industry, you've got four employees you need to be providing workers comp. And there again, it does depend on the industry that you're in, but follow up with your insurance company to determine if your business is one of those that is obligated to follow that. So.

Branden Sewell (11:12.406)
Yeah, I know for us we are and sorry to jump in, but this is like a really hot topic for me because I feel like especially in the contracting space, this gets completely like abused. So I have my employees and then I have a couple subcontractors that do some work for me here and there. But it's just...

It's crazy how many businesses in the home services industry will hire out subcontractors. They're treating them like employees, like you said, controlling their schedule. They're making them wear their uniforms. They're dictating everything that they do.

but to avoid the tax obligations, the workers comp obligations, they're calling them a 1099. And so that's something that really bothers me because I think in the home service industry, they'll end up charging less because they'll just sub out the work.

get cheaper labor while here I am, I have all these employees and I'm paying expensive workers comp and all the insurance and all of those things, payroll taxes, and it's really expensive so we lose out on bids where it's like, okay, well, we have employees, who is this person using for your job? So, yeah, that's definitely like a hot button for me.

Erin Eilers (12:54.922)
Yeah, and it's dangerous in a lot of, in a couple different ways. So if you're paying somebody that, treating somebody like an employee that is actually a contractor, um, and the, for whatever reason, the, uh, department of labor or the IRS gets involved in that, the damages are tremendous. So you're, you would be liable for any kind of back, back pay, back taxes, back over time, um, if you, if you have more than a certain number of employees and you would have to

Branden Sewell (13:12.896)
Yeah.

Erin Eilers (13:23.842)
pay them benefits for that. And not only that piece, but also workers comp can go off the tracks so easy. You know, and if you're not really paying close attention to it, you would probably rather have less people on your payroll if you're, cause roofing can be a very dangerous business. People probably get hurt all the time. Making sure that

Branden Sewell (13:34.943)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (13:49.623)
Yeah.

Erin Eilers (13:50.914)
that you're managing their workers comp so that you don't end up getting sued for that. So the whole situation is a lot. And if you're treating somebody like an employee and they're non-employee and then they get hurt on the job, they could potentially make the case that, well, I was being treated like an employee, so now I want your workers comp too.

Branden Sewell (13:56.872)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (14:08.438)
Yeah. And you know, it's so not just like on that side of things, like the liability with the employee, but even so in the state of Florida, if you hire a subcontractor and they don't have workers comp, you're still obligated to pay for workers comp for that subcontractor. And I learned that the hard way. You know, I had...

some subs that were doing some extra work for me. And next thing you know, I have a audit on my payroll and they're like, Hey, you know, here's the subs that you're using. And I ended up getting like a surprise $9,000 bill in the mail for a workers comp. And I was like, what in the world is this? Now, what I was able to do was go back and confirm that, you know, I really, you just have to have it on file. So.

when that audit takes place, you're able to show proof. So I was able to show proof that some of these subs had workers comp and insurance and all of that and get that bill lowered. But for somebody who's not on top of that, who doesn't have that documentation, let's just say they go out and they hire a subcontractor and they take that subcontractor.

at their word and they don't have a workers comp, they don't have an exemption or anything like that. Well, if you get audited for your payroll, be ready for a surprise in the mail and it could be substantial.

Erin Eilers (15:46.08)
That's true. That's one of those tough areas is the workers' conference.

Branden Sewell (15:47.885)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (15:52.534)
Yeah. I personally wish that like the, I don't know if it's just like the labor department or, you know, what agency would like crack down on that more, but I wish they would. Just for the, I think for the sake of everybody, because it feels like a really unfair playing field sometimes when you have these, it's like I know companies that are

you know, kind of skating on the edge of those things and they could really be, you know, at risk of, you know, doing things the wrong way and be held liable for all of those things that you just mentioned, but yet they're just getting by, you know, like they're not getting in trouble for a lack of better terms, which is...

Erin Eilers (16:30.774)
and milk. You can be.

Branden Sewell (16:51.554)
I just feel like it's, you know, for those of us out there who are trying to do things right and buy the book, I feel like it's kind of unfair because, you know, I think you made the point is it can be cheaper to do it that way because you're avoiding the payroll taxes, you're avoiding the workers comp or whatever other obligations you might have. So it's just, it's really frustrating to me. So anyway.

Erin Eilers (17:18.262)
It's very frustrating and it's such a huge risk, you know, for an employer. I know somebody in town who has about 30 people working for her and they're all 1099. And probably the majority of them should be W-2 based on what their job is. And that, okay. So when the Department of Labor catches up with you and the IRS catches up with you, if you were operating.

Branden Sewell (17:34.838)
Yeah.

Erin Eilers (17:42.182)
in such a way that you knew it was wrong, like you knew people told you, you should be looking into this, your CPA or your tax provider didn't help you, then that's where your punitive damages come from. If you're somebody that, you know, you hired your neighbor down the street to work on your, you know, make your appointments for you or whatever, and you're like, well, I'll just pay you under the, well, if you're paying under the table, it's even more different because you're not getting a W-9 and claiming the taxes on it.

Branden Sewell (17:51.716)
Yeah.

Erin Eilers (18:11.234)
But somebody that was like, well, I didn't, I think most people in America would know that that's not above board. But that would be taken a little differently than somebody who has 30 people working for them and knows that they should be actually employees and not contractors or subcontractors.

Branden Sewell (18:11.671)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (18:31.442)
Yeah, yeah. I feel like for me, you know, and when you're first getting started in business, you know, to your point, maybe you don't understand all of these little nuances. But like for me, if you understand and you know, you should be, you know, making changes and adjusting and doing things right. And I think that plays into just having integrity, right? If you...

Erin Eilers (18:58.134)
Right.

Branden Sewell (18:58.314)
say that you're a person of integrity and you say that you're an honest business owner, well, you should be trying to do things the right way. And I know that as a small business owner, there's so much that you have to know. But what I say is as soon as you become aware of whatever it is that you need to make a change, make that change. Because once you get into that place of like...

Erin Eilers (19:06.99)
That's it.

Erin Eilers (19:20.366)
Absolutely.

Branden Sewell (19:25.59)
Well, I know, but I'm just not going to care or make a change. Well, now it's now you chose that. You chose to ignore what you now have knowledge of and do it the wrong way anyway. So anyway, so for me, it's like once you know, make the change. So if you're listening to this.

Erin Eilers (19:35.328)
Right.

Erin Eilers (19:48.058)
Right. Because truly, it only is going to take one disgruntled employee to report you. We used to meet in a different coffee shop in town and it ended up getting closed down because an employee called to the health department and made all these accusations against the business and the business ended up getting shut down. I don't think they're permanently shut down, but one disgruntled employee, one employee that feels like you're not doing the right thing.

Branden Sewell (19:55.531)
Yeah.

Erin Eilers (20:15.946)
can get you in heaps of trouble. Yeah.

Branden Sewell (20:16.662)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, so one of the things that I would say to that is, I think there's a lot of people that get away with it, right? And that was kind of the point that I was making. There's so many people that get away with it, but it's a risk. So when I think about this for myself as a business owner, I'm like, the risk...

does not outweigh any of the reward that comes from, let's say, the money you could save or whatever. I thought about it in this sense is like, I have my family that I have to take care of, right? So, I have a wife, I have two kids. It's not just myself, my business, my employees that is affected.

Branden Sewell (21:14.698)
you know, like this to do things the wrong way and it comes back and I'm liable for, you know, let's say tons of money that I have to now pay back. Well, that's going to affect my family. So I think you need to really think about this. And I've heard there's a guy that I know in North Carolina and his brother ran a business and was subbing out all of this work.

and he did end up getting in trouble and had a four like over $400,000 fine in like, I guess, you know, the back taxes, the workers comp and, you know, all of that stuff that he ended up having to pay. And so, you know, really sit down and think to yourself like, is it worth that type of risk, right? To potentially take on that kind of loss. So,

Anyway, so that was the, you know, as somebody's getting started out, make sure that you are classifying the people that are working for you correctly. If they are an employee and you're treating them like an employee, they are AW2, not a 1099 subcontractor. So, it's a really good point. So as just, I know we kind of went deep into that.

Let's kind of backtrack. We are talking about getting started, having a solid foundation. What are some other things besides classifying them correctly that you would recommend just starting?

Erin Eilers (22:45.934)
Well, here's another piece of classification, but it doesn't have to do with contractors. There are very, very specific instances where you can classify somebody as salaried versus an hourly employee. And that could be important because if you have a supervisor and they are meeting all the qualifications of a salaried employee, or, I mean, none of the qualifications of a salaried employee and you're paying them as a salaried employee and working them.

you know, 80 hours a week without giving them any overtime. That's something that could come back to haunt you also because if the Department of Labor, if your disgruntled employee says, hey, I really feel like I'm being taken advantage of, I should be getting paid as an hourly worker because I'm working 40 hours overtime a week, can go to the Department of Labor and the Department of Labor will look into whether or not your employee is classified appropriately. And there again, if he's not, that's fines and penalties.

that you wouldn't have to pay. So you want to make sure you're classifying people correctly. That's another big one. Um, one is, and it's kind of simple, but putting the employment posters up on your wall, um, that's another one. Um, and not just all of them. I went into somebody's office the other day and they had bought this beautiful Amazon laminated employee poster, you know, a nine in one or whatever, but the one right at the top was FMLA, which is family medical leave act.

Branden Sewell (23:55.427)
Mm-hmm.

Erin Eilers (24:11.018)
And it only applies to businesses with have over 50 employees. Well, she only had like eight. But if you're putting your employee poster and saying, you know, we, we abide by the regulations of the family medical leave act, then when your receptionist comes in and says, Hey, I'm having a baby, I'm going to be out for 12 weeks, you're going to have to give me my job back when I'm done. You're stuck. You said you, you said you follow that. So that's a big one. And there is a first step.

Branden Sewell (24:16.836)
Mm-hmm.

Branden Sewell (24:33.316)
Right.

Erin Eilers (24:39.298)
poster advisor on the Department of Labor website. You put your information about your business, it will tell you exactly what posters you need to have, and they need to be in a conspicuous place that all of your employees can see, which can be tricky when you have a lot of remote work sites or people that don't work in the same state as you. So you may want to make sure that you've emailed them or give them copies of them or whatever, so that you can at least get acknowledgement that they know what...

Branden Sewell (24:57.166)
Mm-hmm.

Erin Eilers (25:08.266)
what rules apply to them. So that's another one. Yeah, that's a good one. I think there's so many. Make sure that ADA, which is Americans with Disabilities Act and the Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 both kick in at 20 employees. And those are the ones that say you can't, you know, you have to do certain things for people with a disability.

Branden Sewell (25:10.755)
Yeah.

Erin Eilers (25:35.506)
And there are certain classes of people that you can't discriminate against. And just because it starts at 20 people, employees doesn't mean that you should not be following it anyway, even though you probably don't need to be, well, you don't need to be concerned about like equal opportunity complaints if somebody complains that they feel like they're discriminated, but it's always important to listen to people as it relates to them feeling marginalized or discriminated against. But

Something that, you know, I saw a video on Instagram the other day and it there's certain things that Are not protected classes and it's up to you and your business to decide how you want to treat certain things like one of them would be tattoos if you are presenting a work a workplace that You don't think that having a lot of tattoos, especially if they may have content that could be seen as offensive to people

Getting tattooed is not in a protected class. Having piercings is not a protected class. Smoking is not a protected class. So don't just assume that depending on your business, I used to work in senior living and I can tell you that the older folks that are paying a lot of money to live there they don't understand tattoos. They don't think they're cool. So that was my point.

Branden Sewell (27:00.783)
Sure

Erin Eilers (27:01.578)
You can discriminate on that all day long if that's what your business is. If you wanna present a clean cut image to your clients, that's on you. I mean, maybe you don't care and that's fine also. But that's one of the things that I think people get a little sensitive about that, oh, I'm gonna have to hire this person. I'm gonna have to. You don't, it's your business. If they show up for work wearing clothes that, apart from, I know you would have a lot of safety concerns, but...

Branden Sewell (27:15.059)
Right.

Erin Eilers (27:30.942)
If the clothing is not appropriate, make sure that your dress code matches what you want your clients to look like. If you want your receptionist or your client facing salespeople to look a certain way, then write that in your policy. You don't have to like make exceptions for people that want to do things their own way. Yeah. You have some control as an employer.

Branden Sewell (27:51.362)
Right. Now, one of the things that we talked about, and I think you would probably mention that this is important to have in place, is making sure that you do have an employee policy manual in place to outline some of these different things. But one of the things that you and I talked about is if you have a policy, making sure that you're enforcing it across the board with all employees.

If you don't want, if you're going to let go of somebody because they're smoking, well, now you have to make sure you're holding that standard across the board. You can't give this guy this reason like, hey, you're smoking and then you have another employee and just because this one's really good or something, you don't want to let him go, you're not enforcing it equally. So I think that was another point that you and I had talked about offline.

Erin Eilers (28:30.519)
Yes.

Erin Eilers (28:43.841)
Right.

Erin Eilers (28:49.618)
Absolutely. It's just one of those things that the employment practices and policies, it's really important to have a handbook that supports what policy. It's your guidebook. It's you saying to employees, business hours, you'll find out even if it's not a consistent start time. Say business hours are from eight to five, we expect you to be at work ready to go at eight o'clock in the morning. That doesn't mean 8.15. That doesn't even mean 8.05. Maybe you want them there at eight o'clock. That's your rule.

So you are the only one that's going to enforce it. And if you don't enforce it at all, then you're going to get what you get.

Branden Sewell (29:22.563)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (29:25.87)
Yeah. Now, what I will say is this is a tough one for me is you'll have these great employees, right? And it's already, I think it's been talked about now for years, probably ever since the height of COVID that keeping people has been harder than before. Not only that, you hear about this like quiet quitting.

Erin Eilers (29:49.899)
Yes.

Branden Sewell (29:55.238)
or quiet firing. I don't know if you've heard those terms, but I think that it gets kind of tough because for myself, I'll have these great guys who it could be like one thing that it just irks you. You're like, goodness, why does this person do this? They're not changing it. It's a violation of our...

policies, but other than this one thing, they're doing a great job. And so you like make an exception and you end up keeping them. That is a tough place to be in, like for me, because you have to think like, for us, we have a lot of work lined up. And so sometimes I feel like I'm choosing my battles of like, okay, do I really want to make this a big deal? Or do I want to just kind of, you know?

bite the bullet for lack of terms and not say anything and just let it slide. What is your opinion on that? How do you think small business owners can handle that situation of being in a place where it's hard to find good people, but also having these little things that may not seem like deal breakers. But it's something that's like...

in violation of their policies or something.

Erin Eilers (31:23.106)
Do you mean like little things like being tardy for work or?

Branden Sewell (31:28.026)
Yeah, or you know, so like, let's say like showing up 10 or 15 minutes late, like regularly or, you know, like we have a policy in our employee policy manual where my preference would be that there's no smoking or any type of tobacco on a customer's property. And let's say, you know, an employee that didn't

do something before started to. And it's not like it's customers aren't complaining about it. You know, they're not being, you know, disrespectful in any type of way. You know, me personally, I'm just like, I don't like that. But you know, if customers aren't getting upset and you know, the work's getting done, I'm just going to like let that slide. What's your opinion on that?

Erin Eilers (32:24.514)
Well, as somebody, we just had a pool put in at our house. And so we had a number of different kinds of businesses that were coming to our house to assist us. The pool company, they were great. They were great. I didn't always know when they were gonna show up. Sometimes they'd show up before eight, sometimes they'd show up not until like later in the day. And, you know, I kind of started, okay, whatever.

Branden Sewell (32:29.85)
sure.

Erin Eilers (32:52.434)
They had somebody come in to help them. I forget which one. It was like the concrete sprayers or something like that. And they yelled at my dog. They dropped cigarette butts on my property. And you know, I wouldn't use that company again. I would ask if I was going to have another pulpit in, which I'm not. But you know, that is a reflection of that business. So when you say I'm going to be there at 3 o'clock to start on your roof and you're not there until 9 o'clock.

Branden Sewell (33:04.858)
Mm-hmm.

Branden Sewell (33:14.586)
share.

Erin Eilers (33:21.042)
It kind of does reflect on the business that, you know, they said they were going to do something and then they didn't do it. Um, from an, a, a homeowner's perspective as an HR perspective and wanting people to, you know, it is hard to find people. It is. Um, however, if you don't hold people accountable, even if it's just a conversation or a coaching, or you, you write up a written warning or whatever and say, hey, this is really important because other people watch it and they

They see that nothing happens and they see that, well, I guess I can do whatever. And, you know, um, Brandon's not going to say anything to me. So what difference does it make? You know, it's kind of a slippery slope because you want to be a good employer and you want to have your employees feel like they've got some autonomy. And you know that you're not micromanaging them or breathing down their neck, but at the same time, you know, you wouldn't do that with your kids, you know, you'd, you'd correct them and say,

Branden Sewell (34:01.23)
Yeah.

Erin Eilers (34:18.518)
hey guys, this is why we do this. So maybe making that explanation, you're representing me when you're on the job site and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that in front of an employer. Yeah.

Branden Sewell (34:30.958)
Yeah, yeah, that's good. Good, hard advice to take, but it's good.

Erin Eilers (34:39.303)
Well, you know, it's frustrating as the homeowner, you know, we were trying to get somebody to come out and do another service for us. And they just never show. And this is like a big complaint to hear it from, you know, friends and other people that have stuff done. The service industry has to work so hard anyway. Like it's hard work. You're outside. It's hot out there. And then like

there's other people that say they're gonna be somewhere and then they just don't show up or like whatever. So you have to work twice as hard in that regard. So when you're delivering a service and your people are just as professional as owners are, then I mean, that goes a long way and that will build your word of mouth more than somebody who leaves cigarette butts all over your property.

Branden Sewell (35:07.703)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Branden Sewell (35:25.418)
Yeah, yeah. No, that's something that I wouldn't have any tolerance for, but it's just, yeah. You know, it's like kind of a gray area on some things, but I find myself a lot of times, like, you know, looking at those as like, okay, I've got to choose my battle here. Like, customers are happy. They're not like, for example, if I had a guy who was throwing cigarette butts down on the property, I'd be like, no, no.

Um...

Erin Eilers (35:54.55)
You would tell them and hopefully they would correct. And I guess that's my point is that you correct them. And you say, hey, you're supposed to be at the job site at 8.30, I really need you to be ready to go by eight o'clock or whatever it is. And you're right. Don't sweat the small stuff, but also don't let the small stuff snowball into something that you can't end up correcting. They're like, well, you never said anything to me before. You know, call those things to their attention and make sure that they know.

Branden Sewell (35:57.882)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Branden Sewell (36:17.867)
Right, right.

Erin Eilers (36:22.658)
that you see it and that it's not acceptable.

Branden Sewell (36:26.87)
Yeah. What are some other common pitfalls that you might see early on, you know, business owners making some of those first hires that they make?

Erin Eilers (36:39.138)
Sure. Well, one of them, now I would say that probably when you're hiring people, I find that referrals are the best way to go. You know, you're good people probably hang out with like people. They've got their if they're doing a good job, then they don't want their name sullied by bringing in their cousin Bob who is lazy and drinks too much and whatever. But also, watching who you hire sometimes people

Branden Sewell (36:49.431)
Yeah.

Erin Eilers (37:09.402)
hire people that are too close to the situation. And then when it's time for, say it's your favorite cousin or your best friend from way, way back. And then when it comes time to tell them things like, oh, you know, you're taking too many days off, you're calling in sick every Friday, whatever it is, it's hard to make those, have those conversations with people that you're really close to, you know, especially if it comes to a situation where

Branden Sewell (37:12.79)
Mm-hmm.

Erin Eilers (37:35.618)
they're not capable of doing the job and you have to let them go and you know their families and you know they depend on, they depend on that paycheck. You know, I think it just, it's a little too close to home sometimes for people.

Branden Sewell (37:44.591)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (37:50.714)
What would you say is some of the most important documentation and onboarding stuff that new employers need to have in place when onboarding new employees?

Erin Eilers (38:03.158)
Sure. Well, in HR, we have a saying that if you didn't document it, it didn't happen. So I would recommend that anytime you're having like serious communications or requests to employees that you've either got it documented by yourself or that you do it through a text or an email or whatever, so that you can say, say like for an I-9 form, which everybody has to do. And that's the one for employees. They have to provide information that they are.

authorized to work in the United States. So you wanna make sure that you're, number one, getting all that information, but they have three days from the day they start to turn in the documentation to you, whether that's their driver's license and social or their passport or their INS card or whatever it is. And if you're telling them and not, like you don't have proof that you did it, either, hey, I talked to Joe again, I told him to bring the documentation or else he won't be able to work.

And then they don't turn it in. They say, well, you never told me. And if you don't have proof that you told them, then that's a big thing. So any kind of documentation. But for onboarding, onboarding really should be more than just a day. You should be as the manager or the owner checking in with the employee. Because like you said, it's hard to find people. You don't want people to leave because there was something small you could have done that you just didn't know about, right?

Branden Sewell (39:05.376)
Mm-hmm.

Erin Eilers (39:30.642)
If you've said, whatever, if you're taking time off, then you need to let us know or else, you know, there's, there, there are penalties and somebody has like a serious issue and they don't want to tell you, they don't want to ask you for the time off. Cause you don't think they're going to give it to them. And so they just quit. Right. If it's something that they could have talked to you about and you said, okay, you need the week off, you're a good employee, you know, come back, come back next week and

and it's all good. So basically that it's that communication and the ex setting the expectations like right from the beginning, what you expect from your employee, what they can expect from you that if they've got questions, concerns, whatever to talk directly to you or to the manager, if you've got a manager that you trust, not their coworkers that probably don't know or maybe don't know what the policy is. Um, but come directly to somebody

who can actually answer the question for them. That's an important thing. And then do some touch points and make sure that they do know, they do know what the expectations are, how they can be successful in the role, what potential opportunities they might be for them, like more long-term. Those are important.

Branden Sewell (40:46.434)
Yeah. So I have two questions that I want to go over. Background checks and drug tests. So like for us, we do a background check through our payroll provider, Gusto. They have like an affiliation where, you know, it's just kind of like integrated in the onboarding process. For somebody who...

wants to do background checks and drug tests, what other ways? Because that was a question that I had. I was like, when I wanted, I'd still even like to get to a point where we're drug testing when we're hiring. How does an employer go about doing that? What avenues? How do they do that?

Erin Eilers (41:35.798)
Well, there's a number of third party companies that can do both drug screens and background checks. There's pretty wide range of both. So, I mean, it could be anywhere from like just a local background check to like a national background check that these companies can provide. They get authorization from the employee and then it usually, hopefully it comes back, you know, in a day or two. The drug test, it's the same thing.

And it depends on what it is that you're testing for. There's like nine panels. There's like 10 panels. There depends on what you're testing, but there are plenty of companies that do this, Atlantic personnel screening is one higher right is one, there's a number of companies that can provide that service for you, but it's nice that you

Branden Sewell (42:24.138)
So is it like a local company that you would say, hey, here's where you have to go to do your drug tests and then they go and schedule an appointment or something and then that company sends you back the results?

Erin Eilers (42:37.798)
Well, normally they have contracts with different labs and clinics. So they may have a contract with Quest or LabCorp or both or whatever. And then the employee has the option to go this place or this place, or maybe you tell them just one place. It kind of depends on what your policy is and who it is that you're working with and what their requirements are. But there's a few things in relation to background checks, because if you are a company that's doing background checks.

You know, there's some protections for the employee under that. So one of them would be, you're only going to look back seven years. And a lot of times you'll get the reports back and they go back like, like forever. And they might've had something 20 years ago, you know, or even like eight years ago, like a drug related charge. Well, if they're testing clean now, then you shouldn't be holding that against them. Um, another thing is you can't hold people accountable for getting arrested.

because let's face it, any of us could get arrested, mistaken identity, wrong place at the wrong time, whatever. You don't wanna hold anything against somebody for getting arrested. And those things can show up on the background check. And then you kind of have to put it with, is what this person was convicted of something that is going to be useful or dangerous to my business. So as an example, I had a kid who, one of my jobs,

He was like 21 when he was 18. He and his friends went in his neighbor's backyard and were skinny dipping in their pool. Well, that's now on his record. You know, is that going to keep me from hiring him as, you know, a server or, or whatever, really? I mean, it seems like youthful foolishness, but it's not something that follow him around for the rest of his life either. So kind of take those things into consideration when you're looking at someone's.

Branden Sewell (44:17.251)
Hehehe

Branden Sewell (44:28.057)
Right.

Erin Eilers (44:35.778)
background check and kind of determine, well, they had this happen to them. They shoplifted 10 years ago. Is that something that's really going to impact my business or threaten my business at this point?

Branden Sewell (44:49.366)
Yeah, that's good. The other question that I have was related to PTO because this is something that's been a question for me in a lot of different ways. In our handbook, it says that our employees get two weeks of paid time off after 90 days and it's like a use it or lose it. So you get it at the beginning of the year.

You have it for the year. We do ask for at least two to three months notice to put in paid time off just because we book out. Right now, we're booking into June. For somebody to put in PTO tomorrow to take off two weeks in May is like, we have jobs that are booked into June. Just because I'm not sure of how this works.

Erin Eilers (45:35.894)
Mm-hmm.

Erin Eilers (45:39.97)
No.

Branden Sewell (45:47.466)
I found myself kind of like, you know, being lenient in that sense of like somebody like has something come up and they're like, oh, can I, I'm going to have to miss this week because a personal situation came up and I want to be understanding as an employer and give them that time off for whatever it was personal matter. And it seems justified. So I let them take that week off, but then they come back and say, hey, can I use my PTO for that?

and kind of have this expectation, they're just entitled to use it whenever they want. Do they? I mean, do I have to, as an employer, say, hey, yeah, you can use your PTO for that? Or am I able to say, hey, no, you put this in last minute, you didn't give us two to three months notice to avoid...

problems with our schedule, we're not going to be able to give you the PTO for that. How does that work in that situation?

Erin Eilers (46:53.29)
Neither the federal government nor does the state of Florida require you to pay for PTO, vacation, sick days, anything. Or even provide breaks or lunches. Of course, you'd be hard pressed to find an employer that has many employees if they've got those policies. But it's your policy. So write the policy the way you want it to be. Say, if you just say, vacations have to be approved in advance.

any time off take, except for like illnesses or something, like true emergencies. And that's something that you'll have to use your discernment for and be careful not to treat people differently. But if you've got somebody saying, hey, on Friday, hey, I'm gonna take next week off because I got, sorry, this great deal on a cruise. Well, that one, if it's in your policy, if you've written it in such a way that says vacations need to be requested in advance.

Any vacations taken outside of the schedule, if approved, will not be compensated under their PTO. The problem that you may get there is people that say, you know, they use up all their PTO and then they say, well, I'll just take it unpaid, you know, and then you've got people that are like, not showing up for work and say, well, just don't pay me. Just don't pay me for today. It's like, well, who's going to come to work, you know?

Branden Sewell (47:59.886)
Mm-hmm.

Branden Sewell (48:14.81)
Alright.

Branden Sewell (48:18.218)
Yeah, yeah.

Erin Eilers (48:19.034)
Optional I can go in and get paid or not go in and not get paid and you know If I'm not being held accountable for that So in a case like that if it was like I would recommend paying them But then they don't they can't take they'll run out of PTO and if you allow too much unpaid time Then people will take advantage of that too But it's however you write however you write it in your employee handbook is how it that's the that's like your own little kingdom That's your rule. That's the way that's the way you want it the way it will be

Branden Sewell (48:38.285)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (48:46.498)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we already talked about this, but just for the sake of those who are listening, we talked about the giving PTO once somebody leaves. And let's say they've got, you know, all their PTO and they're demanding that it's paid out now that they've left.

Branden Sewell (49:16.25)
pay out that PTO that they haven't used or what's the way to handle that situation?

Erin Eilers (49:26.746)
Well, again, that's something that you would want to put in your employee handbook. And you can say PTO is not paid out at termination, period. You could say, we expect people that are resigning to give us two weeks notice. If you give us two weeks notice, then we'll pay you out your PTO. If you fail to give us two weeks notice, then you don't get paid out your PTO. You can do it however you want to. It's your business. You're not obligated to pay PTO anyway. So

Branden Sewell (49:30.778)
Mm-hmm.

Branden Sewell (49:56.803)
Right.

Erin Eilers (49:56.874)
You know, yeah, just as long as you're applying things consistently, you know, not say, oh, I really like Joe, you know, but he's, you know, he's, he's leaving, so I'm going to pay him out, but I don't like Jason over here. So he's out of luck. As long as you're doing consistently, then, then you'll be in good shape. Yeah.

Branden Sewell (50:15.514)
Right. Yeah, good stuff. So kind of open floor here. We're coming kind of to a close. Any things that you would want to bring up that you feel like maybe we haven't covered that small business owners should be aware of from an HR stance?

Branden Sewell (50:45.626)
obviously, but I think let's kind of bring it to like a thought process of somebody who's a small business, doesn't have like a ton of employees. What are some of like just if there's any last thoughts you have or things you think they should have covered?

Erin Eilers (51:03.81)
Sure, I would say primarily just have it as the mindset that you're gonna treat people, right? Think about how you'd like to be treated. You know, yes, you're in business to make money and these people are coming to work because they need money. So let's make it as positive as we possibly can. And I think one of the biggest things and it is the simplest thing that a lot of small businesses and big businesses and like everybody in the entire world

Branden Sewell (51:10.701)
Yeah.

Erin Eilers (51:31.246)
fails to remember is that positive feedback is free. And it goes so far for people to feel valued and respected and included. If you can say, you know, geez, thanks for working really hard today. You guys did a great job. We got done on time and the customer's happy. So kudos to you. That's free. And that makes people feel good.

And I know it sounds really simplistic, but it's important. Um, people, people are motivated by different things. Some people are motivated by money. Some people are motivated by, by positive feedback and they want to hear whether or not they did a good job. So if they did, if somebody does a good job, then just let them know it's free. You know, you can do all these fancy, um, recognition programs where you give them, you know, a $5 gift card to Starbucks. I would rather somebody tell me.

Wow, Erin, you really knocked it out of the park on this rather than give me a $5 Starbucks gift card. You know, it's communication. People underestimate how important communication is to their people. So that would be like a really big one. Use common sense when it comes to HR. Yeah, there's a lot of laws. Yeah, there are. But nobody is trying to trip you up. People want, I would say majority of...

Branden Sewell (52:33.804)
Sure.

Erin Eilers (52:56.022)
the agents you're dealing with want you to do the right thing. And they wouldn't put policies in that say, if you're showing good faith, you're showing good faith, that means we want you to do the right thing. If you were trying to do the right thing and sometimes you make a mistake, we're not gonna go as hard on you as somebody that was like, I know I can get by doing this, and then they get caught. So I think just do the right thing is probably, will keep you out of a lot of trouble, not entirely, but.

Branden Sewell (53:02.179)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (53:18.871)
Right, right.

Yeah.

Branden Sewell (53:26.418)
Yeah. Let's, I thought just as you were talking, I thought of something. Could you maybe cover compensation plans? So let's say you hire somebody, you give them, you say, hey, you're going to get this compensation. Once you hit X amount of days, you'll get a review. And if everything's going well, you get X amount of dollars, whether that's like an hourly raise or some type of bonus commission.

Let's say you get down the road and for whatever reason, the business is not in a place to be able to offer whatever type of compensation that was laid out. How should an employer handle that with an employee? Obviously some of that plays into performance. Maybe you have a certain expectation as a business owner that, hey, it's going to go well and...

because I believe things are going to go well, I'm going to be able to offer you this, but then you get down the road and you're like, wow, it wouldn't work. What type of obligation does the employer have to uphold or offer that and hold to it, the follow through, even if the business maybe isn't a place where it's like, hey, it doesn't make sense, we can't do this. Could you speak to that at all?

Erin Eilers (54:52.494)
Sure. I would recommend not making promises about, like don't make the promise about compensation. And when people ask, say, when you're doing performance evals, it's usually like a big time when people expect to get paid something, you know? And you can share, you know, this is, we're offering, you know, max.

Branden Sewell (54:56.75)
Yeah. Compensation.

Branden Sewell (55:12.897)
Mm-hmm.

Erin Eilers (55:17.85)
Max bonus or max compensation raise this year is 3% or whatever it is. Just be straight with people and don't make promises. But don't ever go backwards unless they're like changing jobs.

Branden Sewell (55:29.049)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (55:34.458)
Yeah, I gotcha. Well, I think more so like my question is, is like, what if you just, you just really just don't have the ability to do that as a business owner? You know, you say like, hey, you know, this is my hope that we could offer this and you get down the road and whether it's because of performance or like not getting jobs done on, you know, a timely manner.

whatever it is, but it's like, hey, it doesn't matter how much I want to be able to do this, I can't. So, I mean, is there... Obviously, that's not an ideal situation, but I mean, it's honestly been one that I've found myself in where it's like, hey, I would love to be able to do this, but the reality is we're just not producing in a timely manner to be able to offer this. It's like, hey, if this... If you were to get these jobs done like a day or two sooner...

that might provide the possibility for that. But as we're at right now, like it's not possible. What, I mean, I hear you're saying like.

Erin Eilers (56:41.47)
I would just be straight like you're saying. Say when the business is doing well, when we have a lot of jobs, when we're really busy, then we can be a little more open with raises. But even then you have to be careful because it's cyclical, right? Everything is kind of cyclical and you don't wanna say, okay, we're doing great where we have all these jobs, we're making all this money, here's a $5 raise, only to have like six months from now.

Branden Sewell (56:46.155)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (56:57.998)
Mm-hmm.

Erin Eilers (57:10.294)
be struggling again. So I guess it's probably some moderation, some kind of sticking to your growth plan because you're not under any obligation again, to give anybody raises. Not that you're gonna keep people if you never give them raises, but I mean, there's a big, big business in town that went nine years without giving any raises to people and they stayed working there. So I mean, I just wouldn't say.

Branden Sewell (57:12.664)
Yeah.

Branden Sewell (57:15.927)
Yeah.

Erin Eilers (57:36.342)
I mean, you could say, well, if you complete your probation period successfully, then we'll give you another 50 cents an hour, another dollar an hour or whatever. Um, then that's if that's your standard plan. But I mean, at the end of the day, you can always say, you know, it's not in the budget right now, it's not in the.

Branden Sewell (57:45.028)
Mm-hmm.

Branden Sewell (57:56.298)
Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's good to know. So okay, let's bring this to a close. Obviously you have your business, the services that you offer. So I want to kind of just open this up right now for you to talk about the services that you provide and maybe if somebody is listening to this podcast and they're like, man, I really need her help. I have questions that I need answered. I need her to like give me some.

consultation on the HR front. Can you talk about the services that you provide really quick and maybe offer a way for people to reach out to you?

Erin Eilers (58:34.346)
Sure. So I provide services either on a fractional basis, which is a monthly fee where I am your HR person. Depending on how many hours a month you may need me, if you've only got a few employees, you probably don't need a ton of HR. I also help companies if they just need certain projects done. If you are looking to get your handbook written, reviewed, your compensation structure looked at, help.

help you with your compensation, help you with any legal compliance questions that you might have about what posters do I put up, what do I need to do to make sure that I'm classifying my employees correctly. Anything like that, if it's HR related, then I can help. I also do some webinars for SCORE, which is the Space Coast Organization of Retired Executives, where if you're not paying attention to what comes out of SCORE, then you should be. It's a free service.

There's webinars not just about HR, but about everything you might possibly want to know about your business, whether you're an established small to medium sized business or just starting out like finances, other kinds of corporate law type stuff, social media, and all these things, advertising, marketing, all these things that impact your business, it's free. It's score.org, S-C-O-R-E.org is theirs. My website is eilershr.com.

and you can reach me, Erin at EilersHR.com, or you can call me, my number is 561-876-4750. But I would recommend Score. There's a big event on May 1st called BizFest, which is an all-day event with breakout groups for small to medium-sized businesses on different topics that can help them grow their business or make their businesses more effective.

Branden Sewell (01:00:26.554)
Awesome. Good stuff, Aaron. Well, I'll put your contact information in the show notes when this podcast goes live so that if you are interested in reaching out to Aaron, you'll have that in the show notes to be able to do so. As we bring this to a close, I also want to mention a couple of things for my listeners.

If you're interested in supporting the Off the Ladder podcast, we do have a subscription available. You can give as much as $3 a month to just help with bringing on guest speakers, improving the quality of the podcast, the show, bringing additional resources to home service business owners and help us to serve.

Those who are out there just trying to do their best as a small home service business owner. Also, I would appreciate it that if you are watching on YouTube, that you would like this video, that you would comment, share your thoughts, that you would subscribe to the channel, turn on the notifications, and share it with somebody else. You can also rate and review the show on Apple, iTunes, or wherever you're listening to this podcast.

And lastly, I do have some sponsored affiliates. And if you're interested in using any of those services and supporting what I'm doing here, I would appreciate it if you would use my affiliate links because I do get credit for those. So anyway, thank you so much for being a part of the Off the Ladder Podcast and tuning into this episode. We'll see you next time on the next episode of the Off the Ladder Podcast.

Erin Eilers (01:02:01.974)
Thanks.