Episode 1: The One with Hobbits, Pipe-weed, and a Party

Join Kritter and Jessica as they continue their adventure by diving into The Fellowship of the Ring. This time with a guest! Long time Tolkien lover and friend of the podcast, Roofmistress Leigha, joins in the discussion of chapter 1 and what comes before, namely the foreword, the prologue, and the epigraph!

Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.

Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix

Transcript

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Lord of the Rings Foreword Analysis

Jessica 0:14

Hello , this is , but Are there Dragons ? A podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them hasn't read and work their way through it a few chapters at a time .

Kritter 0:25

I'm your host , Kritter , and I'm your host Jess , and we're continuing this adventure with the Fellowship of the Ring by JRR Tolkien , with me as the resident Lord of the Rings veteran .

Jessica 0:36

And I'm still a Tolkien first-timer .

Kritter 0:38

In this , our first episode of Season 2 , we're going to discuss the foreword , the prologue and Chapter 1 . Before we dive in , we need to introduce someone . Our first ever guest , roofm istress Leigha . Welcome , welcome , thank you . Roof . Leigha is a co-host of the three-fold talk show , a weekly livestream , usually about the Wheel of Time on the Malkier Talks YouTube channel , and a very good friend of but Are there Dragons podcast . Leigha care to say a few words before we get started .

Leigha 1:12

Just like you said , I'm one of the co-hosts . It's kind of a variety show . We do our show live Thursday nights 9 pm Eastern . So if you're interested in the Wheel of Time , it is mostly full spoilers . Sometimes we do have guests that aren't full spoilers , so we do try to tailor those particular episodes to you know , whatever spoiler level . But anyways , come join us and chat , if you can . Otherwise , hope to see you in the comments afterwards .

Kritter 1:39

Perfect , Jessica . How are you feeling before we dive in to episode one of season two ?

Jessica 1:46

Sure , I think I'm feeling a little overwhelmed by the foreword , if I'm being honest . Okay , yeah , you know that's fair . So the foreword kind of got me like , oh , this is a different game , we're in a different book .

Kritter 2:04

Yeah , it's the vibe . It was an immediate vibe shift and we'll get into that for sure . So we just read the Hobbit and yeah , it's different . So let's just dive right in with the foreword . So, the foreword basically gives us the backstory of the fellowship when Tolkien wrote it , what he was trying to do with it . So either of you feel free to share anything at all that stood out to you from this section . But one thing that we have talked about a bit already in past episodes is that Tolkien quote cordially dislikes allegory and all its manifestations .

Kritter 2:37

He basically says he'd rather readers have freedom to interpret his works instead of imposing his will on them . So any thoughts about this , jessica . At least first , should stories have intended meanings ?

Jessica 2:53

I think a story , I think a story isn't necessarily for the author . A story is for the audience , or at least to say it means something different for the author than it does for the audience . And so I think that it's great that he clarified that that wasn't the intent of his story . But that doesn't necessarily dictate how I get to perceive it when I review it . And this is something that had come up in our discord conversations about how he really just kind of summarily dislikes allegory . So I thought that it was neat that it made it into this foreword and I get it . But at the same time I still don't think that discounts the fact that his perception , his perspective , was influencing his writing . So even though it may not have been allegorical in nature , you can't pretend that your perspective doesn't influence what you write .

Kritter 3:49

For sure , for sure , Leigha any thoughts on this .

Leigha 3:53

No , I agree with what Jessica said and that author's intentions just like art . You know , books are forms of art and your intention as a writer doesn't mean that's how the people who read it and perceive it are going to think . So yeah , for sure .

Kritter 4:13

So Tolkien indicated that the primary motive for writing the Lord of the Rings was to try to write a really long story that would hold people's attention , amuse them , delight them and maybe move them . So Lord of the Rings basically being a writing exercise , it feels like really wrong to me , but I'm still very happy that it exists right .

Kritter 4:32

Like that's fine if that's what got us here , but it's kind of bizarre , I don't know . So , Jessica , you said you were overwhelmed by the foreword . That's basically the only thing that I like , pulled out as something that I definitely wanted to talk about . So anything else from the foreword specifically that you wanted to address ?

Jessica 4:49

So there is a perspective . There was a lot of data right Like a lot of pure facts about , especially in the parts where he was refuting the allegorical nature of the story from his perspective when he wrote it , which I understand completely . You know the date that it was started and how he was sending it off as serials to his son and those were all very interesting . You know factoids . There was another kind of underlying thread which I also picked up on , that comment that you made about it being a writing exercise and writing a really long story but still managing to hold the audience . I thought that that was kind of funny too . The other thing is there are a couple of comments that are made in there that I highlighted , where it almost sounds like the story was dictating what was happening . The story needed to happen to flesh out the Elven language . There's another one too .

Jessica 5:43

Hold on , my notes are not working you know they had to the story you know branched this way and that you know meaning that , you know anthropomorphizing the story itself and how it was dictating what needed to be said and this mythology needed to be fleshed out , and I thought that that was very interesting and an otherwise , you know , kind of confusing foreword . That was kind of fun in there that he was talking about . This is , this is what the story needed to happen .

Kritter 6:14

Leigha , did you enjoy the foreword ? Is there anything else that stood out to you from it ?

Leigha 6:17

I just laughed when he said he wanted to write a long story and I was like , oh sweetie you obviously haven't read the Wheel of Time . It's just like that might have been a really long story .

Kritter 6:29

It's got you know up for interpretation at this point , yeah .

Leigha 6:34

And I'd actually never read the foreword before , so it was really interesting , and the audiobook that I had downloaded didn't have it , so as I was , really cramming . Yeah , so it just started starting at chapter one . So no but it's fine , because I do have the book like my nice little very well loved taped together book does have it , and I think I've always started at chapter one .

Leigha 7:01

So these the first two sections that we're going to be going through . I had never read before . I just thought it was the mumbo jumbo of like the beginning , and so it was great to go through that . I'd had heard a lot of his story before , so a lot of stuff that was in the foreword wasn't necessarily new information to me , but it was good to look at what he had written and his purpose . Yeah .

Kritter 7:31

I think I'm on the same page as you that I don't recall reading either the prologue or the foreword , the other than I know that I read part of the prologue whenever I was doing research on a pipe weed for a TikTok . But other than that , like I'm not certain , because whenever I read this you know for the first time , I think , both times that I read it was in grade school and grade school me . Why would you ?

Jessica 7:56

You would just not at all interested in any of that stuff .

Kritter 7:58

No , too fact-y , too historical , not the fun stuff .

Leigha 8:02

I don't know . I did a reread about 15 years ago it was right after I moved to DC and I know but I know for a fact that I did not read the prologue or the foreword and on that read .

Jessica 8:16

So that brings me . I was going to ask . We didn't . We should have started with your credentials , right ?

Kritter 8:21

How many ?

Jessica 8:21

times have you read it ?

Leigha 8:22

Leigha I read it , I think , in either elementary or middle school and then again in high school , and then I had reread them before the movies came out , so that was around college age . So you know three or four times before I graduated from college . And then the most recent reread was 15 years ago , when I first moved to DC , because I very specifically remember renting the Netflix extended version , where they sent you the CDs , yes , nice . So I would finish the book and then rent the extended version , being Netflix CDs Amazing .

Kritter 9:06

Yeah . And we even just reading chapter one , we already know that the movies leave so much out . Yes , and I had forgotten , but we're not . I guess we're not on chapter one yet .

Jessica 9:16

So I did have one other thing that was really early in the foreword that kind of got me right in the feels , not expecting it , because I was expecting the foreword just to be kind of dates and bits and things 'til I stood by Balin's tomb in Moria' , and so I , you know we kind of got pretty fond of Balin .

Jessica 9:38

Yeah , during the Hobbit read , still pretty fresh , and so for that to just jump off the page . And I'm sure I knew , I'm sure I knew that Balin was in Moria , I'm sure I knew that , but just reading it in that sentence felt very cold , like AAAAA .

Kritter 9:59

So, this is so funny because I just did a rewatch for my birthday party and I noticed in the movies I want to say , they read Balin , like whatever they were in the mines , and I was like , oh my God , I like I didn't put two and two together . Like this is the Balin from the Hobbit .

Jessica 10:17

So that's , that's what I'm saying . So I didn't . I didn't rewatch because I'm being a good first time girly Good job , but I want you . But I reading it , you know , in the foreword , I got really kind of upset . I was like , oh God , oh , there was an aspect of it I didn't even think about that Balin should live forever , Balin should live forever .

Kritter 10:38

Yeah seriously .

Jessica 10:39

I was not expecting ghosts of the past to jump at me in the foreword .

Kritter 10:43

Yeah , well , here we are . He was out to getcha , okay . So anything else in the forward . Before we move on to the prologue Everybody good to go Double check .

Jessica 10:53

I think we're good . No rush , yeah , no , it's all the same . Oh , and then that um uh . That was the one that I had highlighted is that the story grew . It put down roots into the past and threw out unexpected branches , and I had highlighted that as my umami bit from you know a relatively what could be characterized as a dry foreword right . I was like even here . You know , his storyteller shows through .

Kritter 11:26

We have a for those listening and not watching . We have a cat visitor with Leia . What's the kitty's name .

Leigha 11:34

This is Wilder .

Kritter 11:36

Wilder , wilder is a YouTube veteran .

Jessica 11:40

He has appeared on many streams .

Kritter 11:45

Well , he is , uh , oh , and there's another one .

Leigha 11:48

There's Paca , paca oh my gosh , amazing .

Kritter 11:52

Okay , so let us continue to the prologue concerning Hobbits section first . So we learn a lot about the Hobbits in this section , so feel free to chime in with anything that stood out to you . But I noted a few things , including that the Hobbits essentially have three breeds the Harfoots , the Stoors and the Fallowhi des . We met the Harfoots in Rings of Power . So that brings me to Leigha . Did you watch that and did you like the Harfoots ?

Leigha 12:18

spot . Yes , I , because I just assumed all of that information from the Rings of Powers from the Silmarillion , which I have not read .

Kritter 12:26

And they don't have the rights to the Silmarillion , so none of it is .

Leigha 12:29

Oh , really interesting . Yeah , they have to pull everything from little bits and pieces from the trilogy like this I just assumed it was all the Silmarillion and yeah , and I was just like oh , I know , I've never read the prologue is because I got so excited . Like I remember this .

Kritter 12:53

So the Harfoots ? Obviously they have very Hobbit vibes and they had Hobbit vibes , and so when we find out , yeah , they're just , you know , hobbit ancestors , it makes a lot of sense .

Hobbit History, Culture, Living Spaces

Kritter 13:03

So I said a lot of history here , dates , names , events . This section to me read a bit like a history book , a bit like some parts of the Silmarillion . So , Jessica , did you internalize a lot of this or did your eyes glaze over ? Kind ?

Jessica 13:18

of Probably somewhere in the middle . Like I , took a lot of highlights to be able to go back and reference them . Sometimes it jumped off the page . They mentioned a red book that sounds like it might be Bilbo's version of there and back again the .

Jessica 13:34

Hobbit's holiday , but I'm not 100% sure . It talks about the background on the Hobbits themselves . It talks about all kinds of things that you just alluded to . Oh , the other thing that really got me right off the page was the year one of the Shire and all dates are based on it , so , and that you know there is in fact a hierarchy , if you will , a government structure , or there was , and it's just been so unnecessary that it's really kind of ceremonial at this point in their world , which I understood . So I would say that I go ahead .

Kritter 14:16

I was just gonna , just because this is what we're talking about , I just want to jump in . So there's a fun little fact that I discovered . So the Hobbits , they have a Thain as their leader which is an interesting word . Thain is one of those words that I wasn't familiar with , but I looked it up . It is an old English word for minor noble and was used in Shakespeare's Macbeth . So now you know . Sorry , Jessica , I didn't mean to interrupt .

Jessica 14:39

No , no , no , that's fine , that word jumped off the page to me because of the Shakespeare connection , oh so you recognized it because I did not . I did in context of like Thain . In my mind was similar to like Laird in Scottish . You know they are , they're a minor noble there . You know , it's a position of authority , but essentially middle management .

Kritter 15:04

Yeah well , hobbits aren't going to be that lofty .

Jessica 15:08

But then it was just more of that right with going through and reading it and seeing what they were talking about for the background , talking about their height , talking about how you know , those three ancestors , the Harfoots , the Stoors and the Fallowh ides , were between the Greenwood and the Misty Mountains before they made their trek , which you know is somewhat alluded to in the Rings of Power . So yeah , I found it interesting , but I certainly wouldn't say I returned it all . Yeah , no , that's totally .

Kritter 15:47

I mean retained it all returned it all .

Jessica 15:49

I'm returning it , I'm giving it back .

Kritter 15:53

Leigha , did you have any fun ? Concerning Hobbits facts .

Leigha 15:58

I really enjoyed going back and checking out where things are on the map , just because it has been such a while and they do . We do see a lot more of the world here , so I just wanted to start familiarizing myself with the names . And of course they changed the names . So I'm like , where is the Greenwood ? And then I read two sentences down and it's like , oh yeah , no , it's the the Merkshire , of course .

Leigha 16:27

So of course of course it's not the Mirkwood's , not the Mirkwood , not the Merkshire . So I'm like staring at this map forever and my eyes are glossing over because of words . Like , the print isn't great on the map , so it's fine , I don't care anymore .

Kritter 16:48

I love that the Hobbits have their own way to do a lot of things , including Jessica . You mentioned the years . Right it's like , there's like everybody else in their system of keeping time . And then there's the Hobbits and , like I want to say in one of these sections , it was either Mary or Pippin that had developed a system of reconciliation for the years .

Jessica 17:10

The amount and I thought that that was awesome , because there's such my perception of them and we all know that my perception is faulty and we're putting a pin in it after our experience with Thorin . My perception aside , you know I have this in my mind , that Merry and Pippin are kind of . I know they go through a transformation , but they're really kind of like trouble making teens in spirit .

Jessica 17:35

So the idea of one of them doing this kind of steeped in academia paper or book that outlines the different ways of keeping time across different cultures is hilarious to me .

Kritter 17:50

Yeah , it was unexpected for sure . So we also learn a lot about living Hobbit living spaces . So , for example , the chief remaining peculiarity of Hobbit architecture is round windows and doors . We also learn it's quite common for Hobbit families to live many generations together in many tunneled Smialls , which is the name for Hobbit holes . So would you all want to live this way , in a Smiall with multiple generations of your family ? Would you prefer the newer way of Hobbit living in above ground , normal brick or stone houses ? Or what about how Bilbo and Frodo lived ? So still in a Hobbit hole , but solo ?

Leigha 18:24

Bilbo and Frodo .

Kritter 18:27

The solo Hobbit hole . Life is what it sounds like for everyone . Honestly , I'm like you know . I've always liked the idea of like community living , but I can't say that I would be like me and my extended family . You know that's who I want to live in . It's no offense to them , I love them .

Leigha 18:46

I do feel like , yeah , if they lived in a couple houses over or like all that sort of stuff , or and I actually did really appreciate and I don't remember which section it was it's when they were talking about the postmasters that they write their friends and sometimes family , so like there was a very big distinction that they're writing to their friends and not their family , and I think that's the community living that I want , like the chosen family , the people I want to write with . That's what I mean .

Kritter 19:17

Yeah amazing . I would live in a Smiall with my chosen family , but like that sounds fun .

Jessica 19:24

I will say with my circle of friends . We've talked about , you know jokingly about having a commune right and really it would be like two massive houses and then some shared spaces . You know like not necessarily . Not necessarily we're all living in the same bathroom , because that's going to strain any relationship .

Kritter 19:45

No , no , no , no . We don't . We don't necessarily share walls , we don't share bathrooms , so we do live near each other . That's the dream I think yeah , okay , so before we move on to pipe , weed any other thoughts about concerning Hobbits .

Jessica 20:01

No , I don't think so they did talk about . I did find it interesting that they have the museum . They talked about them having accumulated so much stuff that they was it called a mathom . I'm not sure if I'm saying that right .

Kritter 20:16

That sounds right .

Jessica 20:17

Mathom . Somebody can correct me , you know , and putting things in the museum that are important . So I think one of my takeaways from this is that Hobbits are a little hoardery .

Kritter 20:32

Uh huh yeah they're a little hoardery , I agree , and so this I just it was interesting to note , I think . In that context they say that they haven't fought wars in a long , long time . They had a war that they had to fight against orcs ages ago but , so there's still weapons in the Shire , but a lot of them are in this mathom or like hanging on the mantle piece above the fire and apparently centuries old , because this war predated the establishment of the Shire , if I remember correctly .

Kritter 21:02

Yeah , so old weapons , but weapons , they're not completely weaponless , so that's something I don't know .

Jessica 21:09

Um , yeah , so I do think that there's one . Sorry , there's two more things , sorry . Yeah yeah , hobbits are . One is to you , Kritter . There's some commentary in there about the appropriateness of the question in the riddle game . I'm sorry .

Kritter 21:26

I thought you made me think of you . Yep , yep , yep , yep , yep , because , like highlighting all of that , so you know it's called into question , but once Gollum accepted it , it became fair play Because it's like , because , like the dwarves , hobbits are like semi-contractual in nature and so I appreciated that clarification .

Jessica 21:47

I thought it might make it more palatable to you , yeah .

Kritter 21:51

And I tended to . That's how I rationalized it at the time . You know , in in uh wow , the chapter the riddles in the dark . But still , like , still , I wish it would have gone down differently , and apparently we'll find out soon . So did Bilbo , because he told people it went down differently .

Jessica 22:07

Yeah , that was shocking . Yeah , this section makes the first reference to the story that he told . Each person might be different . And then the last thing from this part of the foreword was a reference to Thain Peregrine Took I assume Peregrine took- so , I was like , okay , it's a little bit of like the eagle king is going to get crowned . I felt like it was very foreshadowing .

Kritter 22:38

Okay , I was wondering if you felt like you shouldn't have read this because some of it felt a little spoilery .

Jessica 22:45

I mean a little , but overall still worth it . I like the . I like the factoids about the story , right like it's a really old story and getting that context . You know , I don't know if I can call myself a bibliophile , but as a story lover , having some of the background you know from the horse's mouth , I love that and I love the fact that A bunch of this is at the request of the readers . Right , the readers wanted to know more about the Hobbits and he took the time to create this lore , so I wanted to read it .

Kritter 23:17

Yeah , okay , I'm glad . I'm glad because , yeah , there were a couple things like I guess you saw the movies so you know that , like , Merry and Pippin survive at least , at least in the movies .

Kritter 23:27

So that would have revealed it if you hadn't seen the movies . Okay , so the next section of the prologue is the ordering of the Shire , and we've alluded to some of the stuff . So , as far as the leadership in the Shire , we find out that the High King once recognized by the Hobbits was a thousand years gone . The Tooks apparently inherited a place of special respect and the chief Took is considered the Thain , hence Peregrin Took the Thain . They're basically in charge of military efforts , which means the title is basically out of respect , which you mentioned . And then there's also a mayor who is in charge of the post and the shirriffs .

Kritter 24:00

And I don't know about you guys , but I think the word shirriff is the cutest word of all time , shirriff it's . I don't know why , but it just like strikes me as like I can see like a little you know in oh my gosh , lord Brock tree or one of the the you know the books where there are animals that are little knights . Some red wall in red wall strikes me as a word from red wall , and I'm going to move on . So anyways , the shirriffs are basically the neighborhood watch and the animal control all rolled into one . So that's basically my summary of the ordering of the shire .

Hobbits, Pipe Weed, and the Ring

Kritter 24:32

Did you have anything , leigha , that stood out to you from this section ?

Leigha 24:37

At first I was questioning that they had like a police force and I was like uh-huh , really this sounds so unhobbit like . But when they did mention it was more for like it's more for the animals . I was like , oh , that makes sense , Because you know somebody's lazy and getting complained that their goats got out and not go do anything about it . So that's what the sheriffs are for .

Jessica 24:57

Exactly , somebody's dog is maliciously watering somebody else's plants .

Kritter 25:03

Exactly , yeah , very hobbity of their like , and that's why I called it their neighborhood watch . It's like not really police .

Leigha 25:11

Yeah , and there's only three per a little section , so there's only 12 total Right , yeah , chasing down goats and not much else .

Kritter 25:20

Basically , Jessica , did you have anything ?

Leigha 25:23

What troubles getting up into in the hot in the Shire .

Kritter 25:27

Nobody's doing anything except gossiping . I found out because man , they like to gossip .

Leigha 25:33

Not breaking any laws . It's true .

Jessica 25:35

It's true . I'm trying to see the section , not on the Shire , the section on old Toby . Did we skip that ?

Kritter 25:47

Oh , we did , Jessica good catch .

Jessica 25:51

Okay , but so I mean , but I brought it up because , like , I was surprised of that , we skipped it . No , I was surprised that it was tobacco .

Kritter 26:02

Oh , okay , yes , so that's so funny , because the first question that I have under concerning pipeweed is there's a whole section about smoking . Are we surprised ? And after reading the Hobbit , not really , you know not really super surprised , but were you excited to read about this strain of probably nicotania ?

Jessica 26:24

I feel like it speaks to that Hobbit culture again , right Like they have this plant , regardless of what the plant's used for , that they've brought with them and they've nourished and they've grown and it's part of their history . So I think that that's really neat . It also kind of lays the groundwork for later . There's some actual respect for Gandalf's smoking abilities .

Kritter 26:50

And I was just like and . Bilbo admired them as well , back in the Hobbit .

Jessica 26:53

So I think that it's funny . I think that it's similar in theme to appreciating a well-appointed pantry , right , I think that it's part and parcel of the culture for them as a whole and that they carried it with them . And lots of cultures bring plants with them when they're uprooted or when they relocate so uprooted .

Kritter 27:21

So I mentioned . It's worth noting that the narrator says the Hobbit's pipe weed is a variety of nicotania , which means tobacco . After some study and I've done a TikTok about this I've concluded that Tolkien , who was an avid pipe smoker like he loved the hobby considered pipe weed to be tobacco , but I think Peter Jackson and the actors in the Lord of the Rings played it as cannabis . Discuss .

Jessica 27:49

Yes , yes . So I will say that based on those , I did think that it was cannabis . I had made the assumption that Old Toby was cannabis and , honestly , I didn't know . You had done a TikTok about it .

Kritter 28:03

I don't know how it missed my radar yeah , it's one of my more popular Lord of the Rings .

Jessica 28:08

Cool . So I can say , and also everybody's a little bit different on their take on cannabis . Cannabis is kind of normalized in some of the areas that I've lived in .

Kritter 28:23

Oh yeah , it's legal in a lot of states .

Jessica 28:26

And so it's getting more and more wide , but there are other parts of the country where it's still not viewed that way . So I think that it's a matter of what you've been exposed to about whether or not you would make that leap .

Kritter 28:41

Yeah , yeah , I'd be willing to . Yeah , I feel like their behavior while smoking it in the movie is like this is clearly what they were going for and I think it's really funny . It's goofy , it's laid back . They like that .

Leigha 28:57

Exactly .

Kritter 28:59

You know are always eating . There's just a lot of stereotypes involved which .

Kritter 29:03

I think are really funny . And , of course , whenever I did this TikTok , a lot of people were like you're right , Definitely it's marijuana . And then a lot of other people were like Tolkien wouldn't have even known what marijuana is . It's not what I'm saying . I'm not saying that Tolkien thought that's what it was . I'm just saying that there's a difference in interpretation between Tolkien and Peter Jackson . So , yeah , fun fact , Okay , cool . So we talked about this one , Merry , who we haven't met yet in the book but we keep hearing little snippets of in the prologue , is both the expert on pipe weed and also quite sure and proud that hobbits were the first folk to decide to smoke it . Other people were familiar , but they were the ones that were like we're going to light this on fire and inhale it . Right ? Did you have any thoughts about this section generally ?

Leigha 29:51

Because I just thought it was fun and informative , but , you know , obviously not terribly relevant to the overall plot , Especially with a Peter Jackson interpretation that it's weed , I was like and of course Perry is the one writing about the history of their strain of weed that they're smoking .

Leigha 30:08

So , like that is such a Merry thing to do and just how particular they are about it . Like it's this one strain and they're not really sure where it came from and this one dude never left , but he might have gone to Bree , and then maybe they got it from somewhere else and Bree , but he would never told anybody where he got it .

Jessica 30:30

And I think that kind of adds to it right . Like the whole strain and the horticulture piece of it If anybody's known anybody who has legally grown cannabis , then they're very horticulturally inclined and you're very attentive to what strain you're growing and that so all of that absolutely smacked of cannabis .

Kritter 30:53

The old Toby , the long bottom leaf, you know a you could hear Merry ask Pippin , or probably , conversely , pippin ask Merry . That about something right , because Merry's apparently .

Leigha 31:06

Oh , for sure .

Kritter 31:07

Yeah .

Leigha 31:08

Yeah , absolutely that was pretty .

Kritter 31:10

It was cute . It was a cute section . I'm glad it's in there .

Leigha 31:13

I wasn't looking forward to reading it . I was like , oh my God , I like what are , what is this going to be ? And then I was like , oh , that's actually kind of interesting . I never need to read this again , but cool .

Kritter 31:27

I did it once . Okay , so we skipped ahead to ordering of the Shire , but Jessica didn't get to weigh in on it at all because she pointed out that we had skipped the pipe weed section . Was there anything you wanted to talk about from ordering the Shire , or are you content ?

Jessica 31:42

I think I'm good . I think that old Toby was the one that stuck out for me . Yeah , no , those were the big notes that I had , okay .

Kritter 31:55

All right . So then let's move on to the prologue section of the finding of the ring . So part of this section is basically the Hobbits Riddles in the Dark chapter , which we just read . We talked about that in season one , episode two , but are there dragons , if you want to check it out and didn't watch or listen to season one ? So we find out , though , which we alluded to earlier , that Bilbo perpetuated a lie about these events and tried to convince people that he essentially won the ring what he , like Gollum , called a present by winning the game of Riddles .

Kritter 32:29

So as far , as I know this doesn't show up in any of the movies . So , jessica , did it catch your attention , since I did know about it If it was in the movies .

Jessica 32:39

I totally did not catch up . I did not catch it , but there was different stories that he was telling to different people and reading through that section to find out that that's what he told the dwarves when he came clean after the Orc encounter was kind of wild . I was like , oh so he told them the ring existed , but he still lied about it .

Kritter 33:03

Yeah , not exactly forthcoming . So , Leigha , we didn't have guests in season one . Whatever , we talked about the finding of the ring and everything .

Prologue to Chapter One

Kritter 33:12

Do you have any thoughts about that section of the whole story ?

Leigha 33:17

Well , the way I did the reading for this episode , it was completely backwards . So I listened to chapter one because I was traveling a lot and I was very nervous about ruining this book . I didn't want to pull it in and out of my bags at the airport a lot . And so in chapter one the changing of the story is alluded to and I was like wait , what ? I was like I literally just read the Hobbit and I don't remember this . So I was really confused . So going back and reading this portion which I kind of breezed through because I was like oh my God , I just read the Hobbit I was like wait , hold on , rewind two paragraphs . What's going on ? So it was kind of eye-opening to be like why did Bilbo change it ? And I'm sure once we get into chapter one we'll discuss how Frodo and Gandalf are both like that's just so unlike that .

Leigha 34:14

So , why would he lie about that ? It just doesn't even make any sense , like the way the story is . It doesn't even make it a better story . So if you're just trying to make it a better story , that's very un-Bilbo and having this in the prologue , explain that he did it , not necessarily his reasons for doing it .

Kritter 34:40

So , for the people who are only listening , not watching on YouTube , can you give us the alt text for the book that you have ?

Leigha 34:48

So it is a paperback book that was printed in the 1970s . It has no cover because the cover has somehow been completely ripped off and the binding is tape that I put on it and several of the outer pages are . The edges are very rough . It's a very well-loved book .

Kritter 35:10

The pages are very yellow , Like so yellow , I can't even you know it like mustard yellow .

Jessica 35:17

Like many of us who survived the 70s .

Leigha 35:20

Okay , we are all forever changed .

Kritter 35:25

Yeah , that book is fabulous . You sent a picture of it in the discord right .

Leigha 35:30

Yes , I put it in your discord , Okay ?

Kritter 35:32

well , I'm going to use this as an opportunity to plug my discord , where we have a but Are there Dragons channel , where we talk about things like hilarious old books and things that come up in the podcast . So if you're not on the discord yet , you should , you should have it . So let's see what else .

Jessica 35:49

I'd like to point out what . Leah mentioned , though , about how , even though we're fresh off the hobbit , there was new content in that summary , in the foreword or prologue rather .

Jessica 35:59

So I wasn't reading backwards , but I was kind of caught off guard going through it , thinking it wasn't going to be anything different . And there certainly was . I thought that that was kind of neat , that you wouldn't have to have read the hobbit necessarily to read this book , but also if you could be caught unawares , if you just assumed and kind of rest on your laurels there is information in there that isn't necessarily on the page in the hobbit .

Kritter 36:28

Yeah , I had totally forgotten that part about it from you know , way back in the day when I read it as a wee little lass . Okay so final section of the prologue , a note on Shire Records , so I'm not going to lie a section in a book about a fake world discussing how fake people have kept the fake records of fake histories .

Kritter 36:52

That is not always going to capture my attention , but this section was no exception . So did anything stand out to either of you ? Feel free to chime in , because I did my best . I'll say that .

Leigha 37:09

I kind of got confused about the different versions of the red book , and because there's versions that haven't been published but versions that haven't also , that Frodo didn't touch that Billbo , and I was just like okay wow , that had been appended by elves at some point , apparently .

Kritter 37:28

Yeah .

Leigha 37:30

He's like can we call it something besides the Red Book ? If there's different versions , it's all the Red Book .

Kritter 37:35

It's all the Red Book . The Red Book is basically the Shire Bible . You know there's a lot of versions .

Jessica 37:40

Yeah , it was in origin in origin Billbo's private diary , so I had highlighted and wound up giving up halfway through . So I will say that someone who has gone so deep is to create a mythological filing system for a mythological place , for a mythological people . It's mad props . I'm just like . I love the book oh file in you . So I had a lot of respect for that because I think that it kind of shows Tolkien's origins right . He's a college professor and any forensic look at a culture would require you to evaluate how they kept their records and passed things down . So it would be second nature for him right to kind of evaluate how this culture kept and passed forward its records .

Jessica 38:36

So I thought that that was very cute in its own way although I can understand why it would be a super , super dry read . But I also got so in the weeds with the Red Book story and it's the Thane's book and it was at Minas Tirith , which is again a detail I don't remember ever hearing about before . So I look forward to seeing what that means and I wound up just giving up right , like I don't actually know the provenance of the book or if it is there , and back again , or I gave up , I got lost in the weeds .

Kritter 39:11

That's fair . That's I mean basically . So there was one thing that I don't want to say . There was one thing that I found interesting , but the one thing that I noted was about Celeborn , who is Galadriel's husband . He didn't go to the Grey Havens when Galadriel did . He stayed behind for some unknown period of time , but then when he left he took the last living memory of the elder days in Middle Earth , and I found that to be so interesting because it's like it was almost like sad , you know , like he was basically the last old super old ancient elf to be in Middle Earth .

Kritter 39:45

So also when I hear Celeborn , I think when are we going to meet him in the Rings of Power ? And because it's just like something that's , you know , obviously ongoing and new and fresh and we don't actually know the answer to that . So that's what stood out to me from this , from this section . So we , that's the foreword , that's the prologue . We , we've talked about them both . Are you all prepared to move to chapter one or are there any final thoughts ? I'm good for chapter one . Okay , we did it . We did it Well done all .

Kritter 40:14

Like that was not this . You know the core story and so the fact that we got through it . And , Jessica , I will say that if we decide to read the Silmarillion as part of this podcast , you now have a taste , just a taste of what it's like . In some ways , there are like there are stories , but there are also sections that are like this , so that's all .

Jessica 40:36

So what I'll say and this can be a rhetorical question , but I'm like or rhetorical comment , rather it's more likely to hold my interest if it's got enough about characters I've already learned about . So for example . This held me because I did see mention of Peregrine and I did see mention of Merry and even Celeborn right , who I haven't met yet but I've at least heard of .

Jessica 41:01

So , if the Silmarillion is just all of these characters I've never heard of , then it might be difficult . But if it's at least some characters I've heard of , then I might be able to stick it out .

Kritter 41:11

Get on board . Yeah , it's . Yeah it'll be . It'll be an adventure . I'm looking forward to it . But first we are on book one , chapter one , an unexpected party , and that's kind of like . It's a fun little parallel , because the first chapter of the Hobbit was God . What was the title ? It was like an unexpected journey or no . What ?

Jessica 41:35

Yeah , it was an unexpected journey and I think the last one was an unexpected visitor . But now I want to double check .

Kritter 41:41

Yeah , yeah , yeah , I can't . I just thought it was like it sounded so familiar , basically compared to what we were getting in the Hobbit , so I kind of noted that I should have checked , but I noted it Whatever . So , Bilbo the Hobbit is about to have a birthday party . We find out that he has designated Frodo his cousin his heir , and that the two share a birthday , September 22, . Just 78 years apart . Frodo is coming of age at 33 and Bilbo is turning 111 .

Leigha 42:15

They called it tweens , like when they're in their 20s , the tweens and I was like yeah , yeah is that why we call them the tweens .

Jessica 42:23

So they're so young , so young . It's not prepared for coming of age at 33 . I knew that that was probably the landscape that we were in given that at 51 or whatever , bilbo was still a little wet behind the ears , a little yeah . But Tolkien comes right out and says coming of age is 33 . And I was like holy smokes .

Kritter 42:50

Yeah , yeah , hey , that's okay . You know , as far as I'm concerned , people in their 20s are still pretty green .

Leigha 42:56

Yeah , even as you guys became an adult in my 30s .

Jessica 43:01

Yeah , I mean , I did too , but still Just to have it out there on the table , like that yeah . Like , don't call me out like that , bro . For the record , the last chapter I was wrong , the first chapter of the Hobbit , you were correct is an unexpected journey and so this is an unexpected party , so that's so cool .

Kritter 43:20

I like that , like having read , you know , reading them really close to each other , just kind of this is the long expected party . The long expected part . Wait , oh , I wrote down an unexpected party because I had it in the back of my brain . That is so funny . Okay , so it is very . It's still parallels really well from an unexpected journey to the long expected party . Thank you for that correction , though I'm sure people would have gotten angry , yeah .

Discussion

Leigha 43:50

I do want to be accurate . Get ahead of the comments . We will also . We do want to be accurate .

Kritter 43:54

We strive for accuracy here . So there are tons of rumors and tons of prep as the party approaches because Bilbo again turning 111 . So did anything say that to you from the part leading up to the party ? Like how do you , how do you feel about the story as it's beginning ? The party prep .

Jessica 44:12

The notoriety that he's got tunnels full of treasure . So you know , we started to see some of that groundwork get laid when we left Bilbo off and having to prove that he is in fact alive , and all of that . But it sounds like over the intervening 60 years or whatever , the notoriety and the local lore has just grown . There is still Sackville Baggins' slander . So I'm here for it . Not only I'm here for the family gossip . Bring it , I want the tea , yeah . And then the other thing hobbits have a passion for family history . I don't know why , but that just struck me and I thought that that was very cute . And it also kind of emphasizes that Bilbo and Frodo are kind of different in that they're bachelors and they live alone . It gets touched on in the chapter as well .

Jessica 45:10

But , how singular they are in that way . And then it was at this point in the chapter where I was , there's a comment about the art of Gandalf had improved with age , and I went time out . Is he the same age as Bilbo , Gandalf ? So yeah , because 60 years passed for him too . So he's not just a mere mortal , then , because he's got to be at least 100 years old .

Kritter 45:42

Gandalf yeah , he's a wizard , okay , okay , no , you're learning , sorry , you're learning , you're learning things . Okay , so describe to me all right , sorry , I'm trying to figure out like .

Jessica 45:59

So I think that I don't think that it said anywhere that if you're a wizard , you have a naturally long life . I don't think that that was spelled out , not that it has to be .

Kritter 46:10

Okay .

Jessica 46:11

So that's a facet of a lot of fantasy stories that I've read today . I tried not to bring those assumptions with me into this story , especially since it's older . Sure , yeah and so , but it wasn't until that moment where I was like holy cow . You know he's 60 years has passed for him as well , so he's got to be at least as old as Bilbo .

Kritter 46:36

And he was described as like an old man yes , so older by at least you know some , because Bilbo was like 50 or whatever in the hobbit . So , at the time , Gandalf was already old , old man level , and so he's still old man level , just , you know , 60 years older or whatever . Okay , that's interesting .

Jessica 46:57

I'm glad that you pointed that out , because I never would have thought like I totally get , I don't mean to be snarky with my face , like I get where you're coming from , like he's a wizard , no , but why would you know what that means ?

Kritter 47:09

Yeah , like Harry Potter's a wizard too , and that kid was 11 , you know so you never know , to be fair . I get it Okay , well , done Good .

Leigha 47:18

Well , Dumbledore and Gandalf look surprisingly like yes .

Jessica 47:23

Especially when I had cannon .

Kritter 47:25

Okay , tolkien did it first . So for me in this section it was the world building . Like we find out more about the hobbits . They're gossipy , they're not fond of change or strangers , they're super fond of parties and food . So just this , this building up to the party , it just I comfortably settled into the Shire once again . I thought Tolkien did a really good job of just like tucking this in .

Leigha 47:50

Personally , I love the descriptions of the setup for the party , because I love throwing parties . And I just like the descriptions of everything coming in and how the tents were , just like going up overnight . So like just trying to suddenly surprise people and keep you know facets under wraps and the delightful little sign of Bilbo being a crotchety old man not wanting anybody come into his house . And let's some party business .

Kritter 48:20

I don't think you can see it , but I actually have the no admittance except on party business . Right , love it , like right there , it's just cut off in this particular view . Yeah , I love it , yeah , no , I thought it was good .

Jessica 48:33

I think it's a cozy vibe starting off , cozy kind of like we did before . I love that . But I will say cozy with the asterisk though , because I could feel not necessarily the anxiety but the energy that builds around throwing that party and knowing that it's for like 150 people , like that's huge , that's a huge party .

Kritter 48:52

There's some , you know . That's about a little little smaller than the size of my wedding . It's a big party . It's a big wedding . Wait , it's a hundred , and you said a hundred and fifty four Forty four . Okay yeah , mine is like 160 , but so it's close , it's pretty close yeah .

Jessica 49:09

So that was kind of wild . So I did think that it was good to go back to the Shire and it felt just as cozy . But I felt like it was more of a buildup than , say , in the movie intro , even though we know that we're going into the movie intro for the party . I felt like that was that frenetic energy . Build was a little bit more evident in the writing .

Kritter 49:30

Yeah , I also feel like it was more so . For example , they mentioned how there were orders from like outside the Shire and like they were bringing things in and then , like it was just like less people say that I'm not ordering local , those orders started to go out closer to the party . It was just like so .

Jessica 49:47

Oh , and he had cleaned everybody out right , Like he had ordered so much stuff . He had cleaned everybody out .

Kritter 49:53

Yeah , those little details make me laugh , just the like less . Anyone accused me of not supporting local . Yeah , very local , I love it .

Leigha 50:04

I was like , oh , I get that vibe , it's shop local everybody .

Kritter 50:09

She and the Shire . So the party starts . We find out that the hobbits actually give presents to other people on their birthdays , not the opposite I love which is so fun .

Leigha 50:19

Overall , it sounds like let's do it by 144 people to your party , that's a lot of presents , that's a lot of presents .

Kritter 50:24

It's like the party favors , but like a lot . So it sounds like a heck of a party , in my opinion . I definitely would have loved to be there . Any favorite moments or lines , Leigha Anything that you it just lasted so long .

Leigha 50:38

It lasted from before 11 Z's all the way up through supper , and then it kept going . That is no wonder they because that is not just one meal no wonder everybody's complete stores were wiped out is because that's like five meals and I'm sure they were . That's when they were all sitting , so I'm sure they were just constantly stuffing their faces because they're hobbits . Yes , it's not amazing .

Kritter 51:04

I was like my birthday party . Actually we had we started right after 11 Z's actually , so we had lunch and afternoon tea , dinner , supper and like dessert . So I was really full at the end of the day , but we loved it .

Jessica 51:17

It was a really it was a lot of .

Kritter 51:18

And then , of course , there was food sitting out , like the whole you know , chips and whatnot . So , it was very hobbity and it was really fun .

Jessica 51:27

But I , I can't do it every day .

Kritter 51:30

No , it came time for me to have my birthday cake , which was the final thing I was . I had like half a piece , which for me , is like I love birthday cake . I couldn't even eat it because I was so full . So that was . That was something else . Jessica , did you have any ? Any from the party ? Anything you liked ?

Jessica 51:47

From the party I really liked . There was a comment all my notes are from during the speech and right after . So first off , another shout out to you , Kritter , the time I remember and can only say thank you very much when he had the cold . So again , a little bit of a callback , because I remember Kritter loving that moment in the hobbit so I thought it was kind of funny that he got a call out . And so you know , I've been with these movies longer than I've been with the Hobbit movies not quite to the extent that Kritter has , but I also was somebody that watched every year . I've seen the extended edition multiple times and I did think that there were some great big beats in the speech that did make it into the movie Like line from line yeah .

Jessica 52:36

Yeah , and I love that . I love that when I can pick it out like that . But then of course there's other things that were there , like the thank you very much . I thought was very neat , and then I think that it's the aftermath that I liked the most on this chapter . So there's not really any discussion of it in the movie . But you know , frodo's just sitting there and quiet and even though he was in on it he still didn't quite know what to think and he wasn't just immediately rambunctious or loud like the others . He was kind of quiet and sat with it a minute and goes oh , what does this actually mean ?

Jessica 53:15

And so I thought that that was great , and again , I say it all the time , though , there are certain things that just jump off the page at me , and that's one that I was like okay , this kid kid is paying attention .

Kritter 53:29

Well , also in the movie . I don't think he was in on the secret . Right , and so that was an interesting difference that , like in the book he was in on it kind of you knew the bilbo was going to pull this disappearing act and then the movie at least based on how Elijah Wood played it . He did not .

Jessica 53:47

He was not expecting that Well , and he has a line where he says , okay , keep your secrets then . So you know . I can quote the movie . It's ridiculous .

Kritter 53:56

Probably not to the extent you can .

Jessica 54:01

So I think the aftermath is the part I liked about this . So you know and it's not to take away from the importance of Gandalf talking Bilbo off the ledge and getting him to leave the ring behind , and how important that was , making sure that it was Frodo that took the ring . Also here in the book it specifically , it expressly states aloud that in that moment is when Gandalf started researching the ring . You kind of left to wonder has he looked into this before , where it's expressly stated in this chapter ? And then he leaves to go and look into it . But then all of the aftermath at the hobbit hole after the fact , Gandalf's taken off , bilbo's gone and Frodo's left to essentially fight off , being pillaged by his friends and neighbors .

Leigha 54:52

We are where the shirriffs . That's what I want to know . We are where the sheriffs , all this shit is getting stolen .

Jessica 54:58

We've got people in the pantry and down corridors digging holes . They thought they could hear a hollow point . That's insane . Can you imagine having to physically fight off your relatives , your in-laws that is so audacious .

Leigha 55:17

I was very upset with the hobbits community at this point where they're just like oh well , it's like stolen treasure , so we can steal it if we find it right .

Jessica 55:25

Right , it's all fair . You'd expect it from a Sackv ille Baggins , but not necessarily from the rest .

Kritter 55:31

Seriously , Going back to the speech , there was a moment where there was this old hobbit who was like he read into the trick and he was like I think he's sensing that Bill was going to leave again , right , but he concluded that it didn't matter because he didn't take the vittles with him . So that , to me , was so hobbit . Like , literally , he's like oh , I'm one of the smart ones , but also doesn't matter , because that cake right there , it's still right there and I'm going to have to .

Kritter 55:57

I thought that was pretty fabulous , so Jesse kind of walked us through all of it . The one of the no not at all you should . It's great . I had a great time listening to that . So one thing that I really liked a line from Bilbo that's in both the movies and the books that I find myself using pretty often is the one about him being old , feeling thin like butter scraped over too much bread .

Kritter 56:22

So it's dramatic . But when I'm tired , I use that all the time , like , and it's , it's a very . You know Tolkien , you know people who aren't familiar . Like , what in the like ? What is this fluffy language that you're using ?

Jessica 56:33

So , anyway .

Kritter 56:34

Jessica described it already . Gandalf and Bilbo , they have this tense exchange about the ring . Leigha , did you have any standout moments from this ?

Leigha 56:42

I appreciated that Bilbo had several dwarves just in the back coming and that he didn't leave by like he . And not only did he plan this , he brought travel companions .

Leigha 56:56

So because I always I forgot , I always forget in the books that he has this because he just kind of takes off on his own in the movies and it's like , oh , like it's kind of sad , like you're so used to traveling with people , and it does mention both in the Hobbit and here that he did continue to go visit with his Elven friends and his dwarf friends , so I was very happy that they weren't named , so I'm assuming that it's not from anyone from the original 13 that he set off with .

Leigha 57:27

But it means he made more friends and you know he's going out and seeing the world with his buddies .

Kritter 57:32

So think I love that I think I've got the Tolkien bug . I think , because I was like I wanted their names . Who are these dwarves that are with Bilbo ? I need to know .

Jessica 57:42

I know I was very curious , but there was one other aspect of aftermath I wanted to mention is they actually spent time to go out in the garden and wake up people who didn't make it home ?

Kritter 57:56

And brought them out in wheelbarrows . The gardeners took them out in wheelbarrows .

Jessica 58:02

It was so good . Buy orders per orders , like that was built into the party plan .

Kritter 58:10

Yeah , that was . That was a good note . I think I have . I thought I remember . I thought I wrote it down but I didn't , so I'm glad you brought it up Also . I noted so Bilbo calling the ring his precious right . Which is which is like in the movies , is like it's been called that before . Gandalf is like what ? Like you could see the little exclamation mark above his head in this scene . He's like what is happening .

Jessica 58:34

This is this is .

Bilbo, Gandalf, and Tolkien's Writing Style

Kritter 58:35

I just found it to be a really well written conversation where you could see the kind of sinister vibes just surrounding Bilbo . You know he's clearly been corrupted and even if you hadn't seen the movies you'd know there was something going on , and I just love that . That was just and it's all been nailed .

Leigha 58:57

That conversation is such an important lead up to the one that Gandalf and Frodo have talking about . Did you hear the true origin of the story and the conversation that I'd already mentioned about ? Why did he change it ?

Jessica 59:09

And so , just like those two conversations are complimentary and that there's something weird going on here , yeah , for sure I will point out , though , that the Peter Jackson treatment of that the Bilbo and Gandalf interaction getting him to leave the ring was a little bit more sinister than how it read on the page , necessarily .

Kritter 59:33

And I think that that was a good thing .

Jessica 59:35

I think that it would have been lost on me . Had he handled it a little bit differently ?

Leigha 59:41

Okay , definitely a conversation in the movies , but I think the very , very tight to the chapter for sure .

Jessica 59:49

And I understand that I'm not a movie critic . It's just that I do think that it was painted a little bit more sinister in the opening to the movie , and I think that that was probably a good thing for someone like me who didn't have this background . Yeah , I thought that it was a good choice for what it's like .

Kritter 1:00:09

That's interesting because I wonder if so I actually read part of this chapter from the book itself , like I didn't listen to it , which for me is like that doesn't happen that often , and I thought like I missed the audiobook because and I think what you said there kind of ties into this it's being mildly acted out Like Andy Serkis in these audiobooks is like doing the voices , he's like yelling when they're yelling . You know what I mean . And you don't always get that when you're just reading , like obviously , if the context clues are there , you might , but you're not necessarily going to give the same tone that the narrator would , or they would in the movies , and so I think it really .

Kritter 1:00:52

I think the intensity was there in the audiobooks because I think Andy Serkis gave it the intensity that it needed . But that's interesting that on the page it didn't read that way . Hello people .

Jessica 1:01:02

I'm going to mate . I'm going to mate . I'm going to call up Andy ifi . I also kind of read fast , like we talked about it , like I kind of read fast and so . But I got through it and I was like that didn't feel as scary and maybe maybe I had drawn it out , maybe I read it a little flat , like Well , it's also .

Leigha 1:01:18

I feel like Gandalf in the writing is much more Level , up until the point that bilbo threatens him with a sword and yes , and he takes like he gets bigger and gets darker , but he is how he is trying to have a logical conversation with a two year old throwing a temper tantrum about this is my ice cream . I don't need to take my ice cream .

Kritter 1:01:43

Which is kind of what Bilbo is doing .

Leigha 1:01:45

Yeah , I found it fair and square . It's mine and mine like it and he called me names . And you're calling me names and again , I did not call you names . I did not say anything like that . I just asked you a question .

Kritter 1:01:59

Yeah , and I love that that tension actually had like it was built up because apparently Gandalf , digging out the actual story from Bilbo , had made Bilbo kind of mad , like he , you know . He put a little bit of a wedge in their friendship , apparently because Bilbo did not want to fess up to how the exchange actually happened .

Leigha 1:02:19

Well , and Gandalf even says in this chapter he's like it's a magic ring . This is part of my profession , and magic rings are are by themselves curious objects .

Kritter 1:02:30

That's not the exact words that he uses , but yeah .

Leigha 1:02:37

And he's probably already thinking , like about all the types of rings that are out there . So with Frodo tying , up Frodo .

Kritter 1:02:46

Tying up all the loose ends from the party made me laugh . I took several though but one of them was the specific , you know bequeathments or whatever , the people who received very particular gifts . So I wrote down . We had a guy who got an umbrella because he had taken many unmarked umbrellas , a pen for someone who never responded to letters , a bookshelf for a guy who wandered off with books and never returned them . Like the snark for me .

Jessica 1:03:12

Once again .

Kritter 1:03:13

Bilbo in the hobbit time and time again was so relatable . But in this little section it reminded me of our relatable King I don't know it was , it was lovely .

Jessica 1:03:25

But I would say like he's a little sharper now he is he's just in jett and there's nothing wrong . There's nothing wrong with a zinger . Or , you know , one good turn deserves another right , like getting in the last word , like oh , for all those letters you write , you know I get it , I get it . But I feel like Bilbo pre hobbit , never would he ever have done that .

Kritter 1:03:49

Yeah , he's older . Now he's . He doesn't have as many cares to give basically . So , speaking of our relatable King Jessica , how do you feel that he is no longer our main character and officially he's out like we're moving on to other other protagonists ?

Jessica 1:04:06

I mean , I'm a little sad but at the same time I'm glad that he started us off . I'm really I love that . I don't know if it matters as much to folks who didn't read the hobbit , but for me , for my read , I'm super excited that we started with Bilbo .

Kritter 1:04:22

Yeah , it was nice to have him there again . So , Leigha , I wanted to ask . So Tolkien has a really distinct voice that we've talked about . It comes through in his works and , in my opinion , I think Jessica would agree . So is there anything you particularly like ? You particularly like or dislike about his style that you encountered , either following along while we were reading the hobbit or so far in the fellowship ?

Leigha 1:04:45

I felt like this chapter kind of continued the voice from the the hobbit .

Leigha 1:04:53

So it was the very quirky and , you know , quick storytelling over elaborating , under elaborating . And it may be because it is a Bilbo chapter and it was very Bilbo focused that that voice Did carry through , which I was very surprised because I do remember from my past readings , like the hobbit and the the Lord of the Rings trilogy do have very different tones and , and I think in and again , the only thing I can think of is it's the Bilbo chapter , it's his POV , air quotes maybe . I don't know .

Kritter 1:05:33

So it kind of translated , at least in this first chapter we're getting a we're like coming down . You know , in trans we're in transition right now from the hobbit or the rings still Again the hobbit .

Leigha 1:05:44

Even when there were heavy chapters , it was overall very lighthearted . It was so not to give too many spoilers , but this trilogy is not super lighthearted .

Kritter 1:05:56

Not all the time .

Jessica 1:05:59

This chapter , though it was Look at Kritter , for right now we are fine .

Leigha 1:06:05

It's fine , it's fine , it's fine .

Kritter 1:06:07

We're all fine , nothing's going to go wrong at all .

Leigha 1:06:13

All right so .

Kritter 1:06:15

Gandalf stops by to warn Frodo again about the ring before he takes off well ahead of schedule , because he's like you know what I need to go . Clearly , he's like I need to go check some stuff out about this year . Was there anything that stood out to either of you that we haven't talked about ? About this Frodo Gandalf interaction ?

Jessica 1:06:34

For me it was Gandalf . Do be Gandalfing with his yeah , expect me when you see me and look out for me , especially at unlikely times .

Kritter 1:06:45

Yeah , like great . So if I'm expecting you , then I shouldn't . But then you know , please make , make it make sense .

Leigha 1:06:53

Yeah , so what do you even say Gandalf staying because Frodo was expecting him to stay a long time , and he leaves that night to go somewhere and comes back later the next day , after everybody else is gone . Where is he staying ? How ?

Jessica 1:07:10

many hot . How many hot beds does it take to make one Gandalf bed ? I don't know there's Bree .

Leigha 1:07:17

Isn't like a sign that like not a quick ride ? Or it takes a while to get to Bree , so it's not like there's anywhere else in the shire that he's staying . Is he staying under his cart ?

Kritter 1:07:30

isn't the . I think there's an inn , surely in the shire . They don't really have when I get this the prancing pony , but that's Bree .

Kritter 1:07:40

Well , okay , so there's the pub , though when you know , in fantasy world sometimes pubs equal inns right , it's like a tavern or whatever , maybe because I don't want to like spoil anything . But we do get introduced to a place called the green dragon in the next Chapter and I can't remember if that's an inn or if it's a pub . But who knows , maybe Gandalf has a girlfriend like we don't know . What is the shack up that night before he left .

Kritter 1:08:10

Okay , we George Brown interest in in Hobbit lore for a reason . Okay , and now we know what the reason is . That's all I can move on . Sorry , you seem very uncomfortable , Jessica , and I apologize . And also not allowed to have girlfriends , fairly sorry , Gandalf . Okay , so that is the end of chapter one . We are starting a new tradition , Leigha , so you're in on this new tradition for the very first time , where we pick an MVP for every episode . So who you know ? Cue the music ? If there's music , whatever , who's it going to be ? Who's the MVP from the prologue , the forward and chapter one ?

Jessica 1:08:57

For me . I would say that I can't do Frodo because he's too obvious . Okay , so I'm going to go Peregrine , because Peregrine's going through all that in the aftermath post party and also there was some fun stuff in the forward about him for his future self , so I'm going to go with Peregrine .

Kritter 1:09:19

Wait , I thought Merry was the one helping .

Jessica 1:09:23

Oh crap , you're right , it was Merry .

Kritter 1:09:25

Okay , so it's Merry and you know what . Very relatable to get those two mixed up . Let's be honest .

Jessica 1:09:30

They're usually come as a set , so it's usually do .

Kritter 1:09:34

Yeah , we didn't really mention Merry was very . He was a wingmanning Frodo trying to get people out of his house . I love to see that from a good friend .

Jessica 1:09:47

So that was . That was the criteria for me . Completely arbitrary criteria was I thought Merry , you know , got a good buddy award for chapter one .

Kritter 1:09:56

I love it , Leigha .

Leigha 1:09:58

Going to go with Gandalf for the amazing fireworks and also helping Bilbo , though hide the fact that he has a ring that makes him go invisible , which he has hid from the world . So when Gandalf , just like lights off some sort of sound , magic , fire , explodey thing , as Bilbo is putting on his ring yeah , he talked about good wingman's covered for him .

Kritter 1:10:25

Okay , yeah .

Leigha 1:10:25

Cover .

Kritter 1:10:27

Excellent wing , so there's no requirement that I have to pick somebody different , and I'm not going to , so I'm gonna . I'm gonna pick Gandalf also for a different reason . He was a really good wingman covering for Bilbo whenever Bilbo put on the ring like a little silly fool in front of everyone . But mainly for me , Gandalf wins it because he convinced Bilbo to leave the ring , which is an incredible feat and that definitely would not have done without Gandalf's help . And basically that is the catalyst for what's about to happen . So , as the first episode of season one , it's season two , it felt appropriate that the person who really kind of pushes the plot forward should get the award , and that person , for me , was Gandalf , so great . So so if we're , if we're tallying the votes , it sounds like Gandalf wins the majority with a , with a nice little , with a nice little nod to Merry for being such .

Jessica 1:11:32

I'm gonna have to make a spreadsheet about it . It's gonna be an overall season winner , I think , I think you're right .

Kritter 1:11:38

I think we need an overall season winner . Okay , so yeah . Spreadsheets .

Jessica 1:11:41

Yes , I'll take that action . I don't .

Kritter 1:11:45

Jessica's gonna do the spreadsheet , I will say it was hard .

Leigha 1:11:48

Those two are very hard to choose and I think , just because Merry's only mentioned so quickly that Gandalf wins out , like that's the only reason .

Kritter 1:11:59

It's just he , Gandalf just does a little bit more and , honestly , like Bilbo was also in the back of my mind just for the snark , but the fact that he tried to keep the ring , we had to give it to Gandalf because he had to . Okay , so anything we didn't cover in our foreword prologue chapter , one that you all want to talk about before we sign off .

Leigha 1:12:21

Just a real quick note on the gift giving he gave . He , bilbo , did give some very kind gifts to some , yes , lesser fortunate hobbits . So , like some people , walked away with a whole bunch of food and just a whole bunch of things that they would need and that those people were very appreciative of .

Jessica 1:12:41

So , yeah , but so neat .

Leigha 1:12:43

He wasn't just like the people who deserved it got it , and then the people who deserved it got it . So that's .

Kritter 1:12:51

That is such a good point .

Leigha 1:12:52

Good point .

Kritter 1:12:52

One of the older Gamgee , the Gardener also he was one of the which I . The fact that he got several sacks of potatoes really made me smile , just because we know how much Sam Gamgee loves a good potato , so I like that a lot . Good , good point . I'm glad you called that out . All right , Jessica , anything for I do the sign off . No .

Jessica 1:13:14

No . I'm looking forward to the next week .

Kritter 1:13:17

Where we will be reading chapters two and three of the Fellowship of the Ring by JRR Tolkien . So if you're reading along with us , make sure to read chapters two and three by next Tuesday . And I just want to say thank you so much for tuning into episode one of season two of but are there dragons ? Brought to you by your host , Jessica Sedai , and Kritter XD . And thank you , Leigha , for joining us today . It was a pleasure to have our first ever guest . You nailed it , I think yeah , so don't forget to follow us at but are there dragons on YouTube , Instagram and TikTok ? And but dragons pod , just one T on X . You can also find your hosts on social media as Kritter XD and shelf indulgence . That's it for today . We're workshopping new catchphrases for season two after never laugh at live dragons won out in season one so let us know on social media how you feel about this one . Goodbye , dear listeners , until our next meeting .

Jessica 1:14:20

Bye , bye .