But Are There Dragons Podcast
Episode 2: The One with a Ring Reveal, Dropped Eaves, & Gandalf Being Gandalf!
Join Kritter and Jessica as they continue on their journey through The Fellowship of the Ring. This week they discuss chapters 2 & 3, where we learn all that Gandalf has uncovered about this ring, the amazing friendships these characters have, and what Frodo must do.
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Join Kritter and Jessica as they continue on their journey through The Fellowship of the Ring. This week they discuss chapters 2 & 3, where we learn all that Gandalf has uncovered about this ring, the amazing friendships these characters have, and what Frodo must do.
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Welcome to, but Are there Dragons? A podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and work their way through it a few chapters at a time. I'm your host, Kritter, and I'm your host Jess, and we're continuing this adventure with the Fellowship of the Ring by JRR Tolkien, with me as the Lord of the Rings veteran.
Jessica:And me as the Lord of the Rings first-timer.
Kritter:In this our second episode of Season 2, we're going to discuss chapters 2 and 3. Before we dive in, how are you feeling, Jessica?
Jessica:Really excited. So when we were in the prologue, one of the few bits that made sense is that chapter 2 is some of the oldest work that Tolkien had done to start this story. So I was really eager to see what happened in chapter 2. And in chapter 2 and chapter 3, definitely the action has started to pick up.
Kritter:It has it has. So, like before we dive in, we never do this Like the people. They don't know really anything about us. So I'm putting you on the spot here, but like, how are you doing? You know, out of the context of the Fellowship of the Ring, I'm doing very well.
Jessica:We just get done with a very busy holiday season and 2024 looks to be a really killer year, so I'm very excited how are you?
Kritter:I'm great. I am very much looking forward to several trips I have coming up. I'm going to New Orleans, I'm going to Disney World for the very first time in my life and I, like, grew up on.
Kritter:Disney movies, so your girl is thriving, it feels good and also, just reading Lord of the Rings again has been an absolute delight. I'm loving it so much, so, all right, great. Now we have a little add, a little personal touch to the podcast before it got started and I think we can go ahead and dive in. How do you feel? I'm good, good to go, okay. So, book one, chapter two the Shadow of the Past. Bilbo was gone. Gone and he became a certifiable legend in the Shire. Mad Baggins he was called Frodo became Mr Baggins and proceeded in comfort for many years, spending time with his besties, Merry and Pippin, walking the Shire and thinking more and more that he should follow in Bilbo's footsteps. Frodo was coming up on 50 years old now. Did this passage of time surprise you, since you, as our first timer, have only watched the movies Big time?
Jessica:Yeah. So the amount of time that Frodo has to settle in and become the Mr Baggins of Bagend and what that meant to him from a status perspective was a huge departure for me, complete surprise. So that was cool, and I also really dug that they called it the second disappearance of Mr Baggins and that he eventually became Mad Baggins. A legend used to scare small children for years to come in the Shire. I thought that that was particularly hilarious.
Kritter:Yeah, he got yet another nickname. Yes, all the nicknames he got in the Hobbit, and we're just going to add Mad Baggins to the pile, which I think has a nice ring to it.
Jessica:Absolutely, that's good. It's a good time. I think that Bilbo would be okay with ending on notoriety.
Kritter:Absolutely, that's the dream. Yeah, he's off doing whatever, finishing his book, hanging out with elves, probably traveling with dwarves and the Hobbits. Just remember him as the stuff of legends. That's my dream. I mean, that would be my dream if I lived in Middle Earth. That would be great, okay. So Frodo started getting word from dwarves and other travelers through the Shire that the enemy, the evil power that had been driven out of Mirkwood by the White Council, had reclaimed Mordor and gained even more power. Orcs were multiplying, trolls were about and, even worse, unnamed creatures were rumored. Did anything stand out to you from this?
Jessica:So first off, the enemy is always capitalized when you read it on page, and that's not a new thing.
Jessica:Tolkien did that a little bit in the Hobbit too, so I thought that that was neat and the threat, whatever it may be, that they drove out of the Mirkwood to me was, I think that that's the necromancer and I totally am resting on my laurels that we just got done with the Hobbit and I was, low key, obsessed with what is this necromancer business. So I have recency on my side and I'm shamelessly pulling on it. So that sounds like the necromancer to me. And then the White Council, I'm assuming is Gandalf and his buddies, because they were the ones that went out to root out the necromancer, because a lot of that's kind of inference that I'm placing on it, based on our last read.
Kritter:But I mean, this is the sequel or whatever to the Hobbit, so that makes sense that we can feed off of that experience. And honestly, I had completely forgotten about this or didn't connect it One or the other. And so I remember whenever we were talking about the necromancer and how he showed up in the movies, the Hobbit movies and you just watched the Hobbit, so did it look like Sauron in the movie?
Jessica:Yes, but.
Kritter:I don't remember Okay.
Jessica:I don't really, I don't really know that I put it together Again, I didn't have the context of the book, so so to pull that thread forward, you know, I just I had it and also I am a I can be a very passive participant when it comes to my media. I just sit back and take it all in. I was just so excited to see the Hobbit on a big screen. I didn't care.
Kritter:Yeah, I just remember, like I want to say, even in our last season, when we were talking about the Hobbit, that I was like I remember them going to fight something, but I think it was Sauron. Now I'm like, yeah, man, it was the whole time.
Jessica:Yeah, yeah. So that's the thing is. The thread of this is the same insidious evil that they're fighting just under different names.
Kritter:Right, right. And it makes sense that you know the unnamed evil in. You know it makes sense that it would just fall into legend and people wouldn't remember exactly what it was.
Jessica:It's very especially from the remote perspective of the Shire which we've established you know lives this very idyllic existence and it's pretty cut off from the world and every other culture.
Kritter:Right, and that's where we're getting our main perspective from. We are sitting in the seats of Hobbits, basically just kind of letting all of this adventure wash over us and following along for the ride. So yeah, that blew my mind. Necromancer equals Saran, who knew, like, even as a Tolkien veteran, we don't know everything. At least I don't, far from it. All right, so we get a little world building at the Green Dragon with our boy, sam Gamgee, slinging rumors of tree giants and elves sailing west from the Grey Havens. How are you feeling about Sam, now that we've kind of been introduced and gotten this constructive.
Jessica:Yeah, I really loved meeting Sam in this really kind of innocuous, you know, off the clock way, I don't know how else, you know, like he's solo, he's not being introduced. We do know that he's the apprentice gardener under his dad for Frodo originally and that or Bilbo originally and then Frodo, so we know of his existence, but we met him on his own, which I just kind of loved Because, knowing what I know about the story, there's probably not going to be a whole lot of solo Sam content. So, yeah, what struck me about that is I thought that it was kind of neat that he was I Don't want to say fan girling, but really kind of eating up the tree giant story, trying to suck it all in, like get whatever he could for these stories and.
Jessica:When up the tree giant thing, I made a note and I was like does, is this the ends? And I just wrote rhetorical next to it. But you know, his cousin Hal told a story about giant trees. That was great. I thought that it was, and also very on brand, I would assume, for a hobbit to just be hanging out and having no, probably not a pint.
Kritter:Yeah, I was. I got kind of mad at the guy who was challenging him or like making fun of him or whatever for his you know Cute little beliefs, you know of what the fantasy creatures might be wondering around. I just want to punch that guy in the face. Yeah, listen to Sam, he's got it, he's, he's a. He's the good one. Magic is real. Magic is obviously there are dragons, the in there, and is clear. The yeah, but in there, and it's called the green Dragon, although I guess he did make. He said that line is like the only dragon we have to worry about, it's called the green one or whatever. That was an insane paraphrase. But like, yeah, they're. They're so far removed from most of the magical stuff that they just, they just can't believe it quite like Sam does, and I love that about him. So, gand, oh yeah, go ahead.
Jessica:Well, I was just gonna say there was a couple of other things that I had just above that, so I assume they happened chronologically before that. Again, going back to the infamy of Bilbo, after his departure, blame was mostly laid on Gandalf.
Kritter:Yeah, classic blame the wizard.
Jessica:In the wizard and the fact that Frodo refused to go into mourning through, continued to throw joint birthday parties when he cheers his uncle. So I understand, like I think that is, I have a lot of respect for I'm not gonna out him that he just up and left or whatever, yeah, but I'm still gonna honor him in my own way. I just thought that that was really lovely.
Kritter:It's really sweet, like they were obviously so close and I guess it makes sense because Bilbo designated Frodo his heir. But then Frodo is like reciprocating that affection and yet even in the book I want to say it didn't even say like joint birthday parties. He's like he's still throwing Bilbo his birthday party. It's like yeah.
Kritter:Same birthday, though, so it's like having an excuse to throw a party for yourself, basically, which is great, but it did seem truly like he was honoring Bilbo, not that that was his motivation. Yeah, that was a cute little fact.
Jessica:And then just the first mention of the sober age of 50, so relevance being placed on Attaining the age of 50 and what that meant to Bell Bilbo, and that even Frodo had kind of Assigned some inherent weight to that age and what it would mean for him.
Kritter:Mm-hmm, that was around the time that Bilbo left on his adventure.
Jessica:Yeah, the quote was that was the age that adventure suddenly befell Bilbo.
Kritter:Oh, that's a nice little line.
Jessica:That's a nice line.
Kritter:I like that. Yeah, I can see that the your feet starting to itch. You know, this is when the guy that I look up, looked up to this, really kind of started his life, or like his life as it is now. And here I am just chillin in the shire, mm-hmm, I don't know. The took it, I guess, although Bilbo, I think, is well, never mind, this is not part of the story. I was gonna say I think Bilbo has a little more took than Frodo does, because his mom was a Took.
Jessica:But still, yeah, I thought the question that Frodo had more brandy buck.
Kritter:Yeah, well, all the hobbits would Demand that you recognize that because they kept calling him a Brandybuc k constantly throughout, like the party and everything. So, yeah, that brandy buck fella will learn more about them, actually soon. All right, so Gandalf returned to Frodo after a nine year absence and we get the detailed backstory of the ring and Gandalf's efforts to uncover it. I just have a big block of like notes that I took here, but were there any standout details for you?
Jessica:So, right as Gandalf returns, is where my literary umami is for this chapter. Oh, and the quote says everything looked fresh and the new green of spring was shimmering in the fields and on the tips of the trees fingers. Hmm.
Kritter:Make things feel all warm and fuzzy, doesn't it?
Jessica:Yep, it's good stuff. So I had just wrote that over the course of 17 years he had returned a few times and that, you know, tolkien had taken the time to outline all of that. And then I? My next note is the description of how the ring affects mortals is Even scarier than how it's portrayed in the movie. So yeah not that it isn't scary, it is, but in writing, you know, reading it out, that you just, you know, you just continue on looking preserved.
Jessica:Until every bit of you is weak with weariness, and then if you wear it too much, you just eventually become invisible, you essentially disappear. I think Frodo's response was that sounds terrifying. I was like same.
Kritter:Yeah, that's awesome. You just wither away essentially into nothing, this yeah.
Jessica:And then the other, the other notes. Had a couple notes here I said that. Gandalf gets awesome friend points for defending Bilbo and saying I don't think and I'm paraphrasing heavily I don't think that he knew what a danger the ring was when he gifted it to you. Yeah you know, kind of setting up Frodo to think you know Bilbo didn't gift this to you to harm you.
Kritter:He truly didn't know right how malevolent the ring was yeah, I did know throughout this whole conversation Sam's gardening noises just like clack, clack, like punch every now and then they're like a note that that was punctuating Conversation.
Jessica:I have one a little further down. It says Sam just passes along the window whistling and I wrote okay.
Kritter:All right, sam, sure. So there were some notes about Smeagol too. I don't know if you wrote anything down about him, but so he was the most in the in most inquisitive and curious minded of his large family, of a hobbit like creatures. He murdered Deagol without much thought when he found the ring and, honestly, I found it so chilling that Tolkien thought to include the detail that Deagols- Like no one knew what ended up happening to Deagol because Gollum hid his body so well, like yeah, that's like I kind of gives me the goosebumps. Like he, literally he just hid the body and let him decompose his former. You know, cousin, that's just like dark, yeah, it's really dark.
Jessica:So I had. I had notes here too. I think you might remember that in the hobbit, one of the episodes, I was like if this is foreshadowing of the Smeagol story and I will say that a certain mr Jessica gave me a little bit of guff Because I said, oh, so I guess Smeagol is real and he's like what made you think Smeagol wasn't real? I'm like I didn't know, I didn't know. So he kind of was picking on me and I'm like he goes how would they come up with the name? I'm like I don't know, People make up stuff for movies all the time. I wasn't going to assume that Smeagol was real just because it made it into the movie.
Kritter:Okay, that's fair, like split personality or like the origin, the origin.
Jessica:That's how Gollum was created. That's who he was he was pre-ring. So I thought that the turning of Smeagol in his deterioration into Gollum was probably one of the saddest things I've ever read. He murdered his best friend and cousin hid the body. The whole section just reeks of getting. His tongue gets sharper, his tongue gets more bitter, he pulls away from his people, he pulls away from the light. Like just all of it is very sinister and that just so sad.
Kritter:I wrote the line he hated and loved it, as he hated and loved himself, that's really horrible. And that's awful, yeah, and it kind of makes you pity him honestly, like phrasing it that way I get the pity.
Jessica:And so that was. That leaves me right into the next bullet that I had that in the reading. When Gandalf is outlining all of his backstory for Frodo, he's immediately like well, gollum should just be killed. He does not start off in an empathetic place, and I'm not saying that he did necessarily in the movies, but I don't think that he started like from such a well he's, he's just an evil creature that should be done away with, like I feel, and notably in that moment, you know, from a character defense perspective, frodo is alarmed, he is scared. You know, this was all very terrifying and how I wish my uncle had never met this character. But, yeah, no, gandalf has to counsel him to show empathy. Yeah, all of it is not. It is not Frodo's first reaction.
Kritter:Yeah, I actually wrote down. So he, Gandalf, observed that Bilbo starting his time with the ring by choosing pity and mercy was likely why his time with the ring was so pleasant and kind of shielded from evil. And this, as you said, like Gandalf's kind of counseling Frodo. It really feels like this chat is kind of going to inform Frodo's behavior going forward. And then there's this line that I absolutely love. I just so I wrote it's quote many that live deserve death and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them Then? Do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment, for even the very wise cannot see all ends.
Jessica:And I'm over here just like man you, I love you.
Kritter:He is so wise, I don't, I just I yeah big fan of that little passage.
Jessica:So that was. I also highlighted that because I thought that that was brilliant. And then just that, yes, there be dragons in this section, mentioned at least they talk about the fact that some of the rings that were lost through time were consumed by dragons. And then we get a dragon name ancolago n the black ancolag on the black. So yeah, I, just for the record for our namesake. Yes, there be dragons.
Kritter:Yeah, they're true, and you know the green dragon, the, in there was also a dragon, a dragon named dragon box off. We're good, nailed it, yes, I. Gandalf also suggests that there's a small part of Smeagol left in there and that he was pleased to have someone so like him interact with when Bilbo showed up down, you know, beneath the, in the caves and whatever. I feel like they showed this so well in the movies.
Jessica:Like Andy Serkis really nailed this in the movies with the Smeagol Gollum interactions, so I was like even the folks that were, you know, kind of dissenters of the movie or weren't as pleased with the movie. I think even they agreed that you know, Andy Serkis is portrayal and that this interaction, these interactions, were incredibly well done.
Kritter:Yeah, so true to who Gollum? How Gollum was described, just this pitiful, you know creature that still has this sinister vibe because, yeah, he was a serial killer at the moment, the moment he got a hold of the ring. Granted, we can blame the ring a lot, but still like he was he's not really cut shots like it's shot or animated as cut shots.
Jessica:But, he voice acted it all in one go. I remember watching the behind the scenes and just being really blown away by that, seeing him switch from personality A to personality B within a breath, and just being blown away, yeah that's.
Kritter:He nailed it. And also once again I say this a lot he's nailing the audiobooks. By the way, there's multiple versions. The Andy Serkis version is insanely good, so just know that All right. So also, let's see. I say Sauron now knows, we find out that. Sauron knows that the one ring has been found. He knows about the Shire, the hobbits and the name Baggins.
Jessica:So I think that was one of the most sinister lines I've ever read. The enemy now knows of the Shire and of Baggins and I was like, oh my God, I'm glad the lights on.
Kritter:So if you, if you're Frodo right now and you hear that, what are? You thinking what's going through that your brain?
Jessica:I'm thinking that the the, the most incredible evil is going to come and get me.
Kritter:Yeah. So Frodo's basically thinking the same and he says that he wishes it need not have happened in his time. And there's another favorite line of mine that I wrote down Gandalf replies which shows up in the movie. So do I, and so do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that has given us. That's another one that I like when I'm feeling down, when the state of the world has me you know, not in my best headspace like. That's the quote that I always fall back on, and and I love it.
Jessica:I saw it as soon as I was reading, and every time I come across something that I can identify easily from the movie, I'm like I'm so glad they kept that, I'm so glad they put that in there. The other thing from this part was that Frodo states up front at this point that this means exile. So this is again open to interpretation my level of paying attention or not.
Jessica:I don't feel like in, and again we're talking about timing, where he's being chased out of the shire moments after the party is over. Obviously, the context is hugely different. Yeah, so I don't think any time had been spent on screen to say, you know, to illustrate how Frodo felt about the situation, but for me it was like part of the way along the journey I felt as though I was watching Frodo realize this is a one way trip. You know, he gave up on making it back home through the journey and Sam kind of had to remind him that home existed.
Jessica:This is what we're doing it for. We can still go back Integral experience and integral part of my experience watching those movies. So for him to say in chapter two you know this means exile. I was a little surprised by that. Yeah, not to say that it's not correct or savvy of him to realize that, but it was. It was different.
Kritter:Yeah, he was. He was thinking it was a one way trip from the beginning and I agree that was very different than how they played in the movies for sure. So, speaking of the one way, trip Gandalf says the only way to destroy the ring was to find the cracks of doom and the depths of Oro druin, the fire mountain, otherwise known as Amon Amarth, otherwise known as Mount doom. My question is how many names does one place need?
Jessica:to worry about it.
Kritter:All the names. We can take many names as we need.
Jessica:Yeah, but I do feel like there was two honorable mentions here, one for me, one for Gandalf. Gandalf telling Frodo he will always help him. Just kind of.
Jessica:Yeah give me a little bit of feels, because we've established that Gandalf and Bilbo really did have a friendship and I'm just waiting to see, you know, how it evolves between Gandalf and Frodo. And then a little bit, during his, during Gandalf's expo dump, he talks about how Gil Galad and Elendil are the ones who overthrew Sauron, so that then Isildur is the one who you know took the ring from him, and I just wrote, I know who these people are now.
Kritter:Thanks to rings of power. Okay, so for all of the rings of power haters out there, just know that you know Isildur or I know who they are. Gil Galad. We're getting to know these characters basically only because it's really big and important now.
Jessica:So, and and this is where we see the pseudonym Mr Underhill appear- is at the end of this chapter and I was like, okay, so there he is, got a road name.
Kritter:So, speaking of the end of the chapter, with Sam's shears no longer clacking in the background, I'll realize this. He'd been dropping some eaves and recruits him for the mission, with Frodo taking the ring out of the shire. Sam's reaction, like the way is described, kills me. He quote springs up like a dog invited for a walk, exclaims a joy about going to see the elves and then breaks down in tears Like he is the softest little teddy bear at this point and I love him so much. But that ends the chapter. So any thoughts about a before we move on?
Jessica:No, I rushed in and gave you all my thoughts, or I guess I had one final thought that's really good for the beginning is just I? I had made a note at the top of the chapter that I hope, going into this experience, that it doesn't read like Frodo is Bilbo 2.0, that I really hope that Frodo reads as his own man.
Kritter:And so far so far yes, Okay, or TBD, Do you know? Do you have enough? Okay, yeah, that makes sense. That's a actually in a lot of the stuff that I've been doing online. I'm just I keep wondering, like, am I going to like Frodo as much as I like Bilbo? Because I by the end of the habit, adored Bilbo more than I thought I would like I'd forgotten how incredible of a character he is, and so now I'm just like Frodo man, you're gonna live up to big shoes buddy big shoes to fill as our main protagonist, to the extent the Lord of the Rings has a main protagonist, but if it did, I feel like it would be Frodo.
Kritter:So far, yes, so far. Gandalf's up there too, but all right. So chapter three, three is company. So Frodo doesn't take off right away. In fact he waits around for months so he can plan a quiet exit and he sells bag end to the sackville bagginses Did all the all caps.
Jessica:You're selling it to the sackville bagginses.
Kritter:The horror minds and all caps to sells bag end to the sackville bagginses. How very dare you sacrilege at this point. We hate them. So yeah, like. What do you feel like?
Jessica:So I think that I think that it's brilliant. I I had never heard of this before, because it's obviously not the way that the story went. The idea of moving house to a different part of the Shire is kind of brilliant. Yeah.
Jessica:But yeah, just the selling the bag end to the sackville baggin s, like really I was like that stings man, yeah how dare they? So I thought that it was good and I did write down, like my first bullet for this chapter is of course you mustn't just vanish, says Gandalf, and I'm like you say of course a little freely there. Yeah.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah I. It surprised me because it's like you know, the enemy is gathering forces, there are unnamed evils about all this other stuff, and then it's like, but I mean we can wait it out you got to make it credible yeah.
Kritter:Can we, can we really wait it out? Yeah, after you spent, like you know, however, many years searching for the truth, already allowing them to gather power, that's fine. I love the casual nature of it and, as we see, it increases the drama going forward once they get on their trip. So Gandalf peaces out in the midst of this and this feels like the Gandalf we know and love, who just bales at the drop of the hat, doing his own thing, being cryptic. Any guess where he's going.
Jessica:I'd like to believe that he's going to go talk to the White Council. But, I don't really know, but before he leaves, he stayed in the Shire for two months and I just want to say, Kritter, who did he stay with?
Kritter:Probably his girlfriend. I'm telling you.
Jessica:Probably probably his girlfriend.
Kritter:Most likely the girlfriend, or you know. Who knows? Who knows what he's up to.
Jessica:So the first part of this chapter my note has to do with the way that this is set up, again with the context of their 17 years under the belt gives a lot more credibility in context to a relationship, a true friendship existing between Merry Pippin and Frodo. So I always just assumed from the movie that they were just young hobbits of a similar age living in a small town, but not necessarily that there was a true friendship there, and everything that happens in this chapter reinforces no. These are his real friends. They know what he's up to. They're helping him set up a new house. These are real ones.
Kritter:Yeah, they kind of grew up with him. Yeah, it's definitely a deeper friendship than they portrayed in the movie, which is, literally, they just happened to be at Farmer Maggots Farm at the time you're at Farmer Maggots Farm and they decided to tag along, which this is an improvement, I think, because I love that deep friendship.
Jessica:Except they call one of their friends fatty.
Kritter:Yeah, well, I guess I never thought of that as like a descriptor. You know what I mean. I thought, of that as just a stupid nickname. Like I actually talked to a friend recently who had two friends whose nicknames were dump. They're, both of their nicknames were dump and I'm like where does that come? You know what I mean. Like stupid, stupid boys. But no, I get it Like, especially with the experience that we had in the Hobbit with the casual with the casual fat shaming.
Kritter:Yeah, that it's an easy. It's an easy thing to assume that the reason they call him fatty is because he's heavier.
Jessica:But to be clear, it does not get said His size has never mentioned. No, it's just that that's what they call him.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I don't know. Fun fact, my grandpa's nickname was Whitey and it's because his hair was so blonde. It looked white. He was a Targaryen. Fun fact, no, but yeah.
Jessica:My kid was too. For a very short period of time my son's hair bleached out so much like you think. You think you can see through it. It was ridiculous. It has since gotten darker.
Kritter:Yeah, and the easy. The easy assumption is that the reason he was called that is because of his visual description. You know how he can be described. So I don't love it, but in my brain that's not the reason. I don't know what the reason is, because his name is like a. It's longer. I'm trying to read a letter.
Jessica:Fredagar so it's like at least it starts with that. I mean, I assume that's how you say it. I'm not. I'm not sure that's how you say it, but that's how I've been saying it.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, I actually just did a the Tolkien author Tea video on TikTok and I did not mention the fat shaming, mainly because it was his birthday and I was basically just doing it as a tribute to him. But yeah, yeah, it is a thing, it's still a thing, okay. So I guess back to Gandalf. There is, I were you surprised that he didn't come back when he said he was going to come back, because I was. No, it's all this guy. No, it's unreliable. Except he does show up when you need him.
Jessica:What did I say last week? Gandalf, do be Gandalfing.
Kritter:And that's no truer words have been spoken, especially from this chapter. So Frodo gets to packing and his friends Fatty and Folco, and his special friends Merry and Pippin help him. So when I heard special friends, I thought of what my grandma used to call my boyfriend in high school. I don't know if you've experienced this, but it's like this is this is Kritters special friend. You know what I mean. Like she couldn't say boyfriend. So I'm over here like what's a special friend? You know why? What's the difference?
Jessica:Great question no, I don't think I've had that experience necessarily, but I can understand it Sure.
Kritter:Okay, okay, but maybe that's just the old English way to say best friend. You know, we can go either way. Boyfriends, best friends, doesn't matter.
Jessica:I will say that he spelled connection in a way that I have never seen spelt.
Kritter:It was with an X right.
Jessica:With an X instead of a CT C-O-N-N-E-X-I-O-N, and I was like, is this a typo? I don't understand.
Kritter:He was a professor of, like old English, so he's got some he's from a different breed basically.
Jessica:In a very different time.
Kritter:Oh, absolutely.
Jessica:No shade Like yeah.
Kritter:So, oh yeah, go ahead. Nope, go Okay. I'm gonna go with the nose up like early, earlier than she's supposed to. And it really made me happy when Frodo took a leaf out of Bilbo's Petty book and didn't offer her tea, and when he left he left the washing up to her.
Jessica:Like they had a. You know, I was like yes, oh.
Kritter:so yeah, we're getting to know Frodo a little bit and I'm appreciating him in this chapter especially. I thought that was a nice touch.
Jessica:And she's at a cool age of 100. She's outlived her husband just to get her grimy paws on bag end is how it feels.
Kritter:It's not a good feeling, but you know, who knows what happened to her to make her the way that she is? I don't know. So Frodo, Sam and Pippin they head out cross country because Merry's kind of the advanced team. Merry's off in Buckland taking care of things for Frodo's new house basically which?
Jessica:I'm like that's a real friend. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead of you with a bunch of your stuff and get your new place set up for you Come on Wild.
Kritter:That's a special friend.
Jessica:That is a special friend.
Kritter:The very special friend. So Frodo, sam and Pippin head out cross country and when it gets late they start a fire and peacefully go to sleep. No watch set In the morning, pippin kind of bosses Sam around once they all wake up, get breakfast ready, prep the bathwater. I personally really want them to put some respect on Sam's name, but I had to remind myself that at this point, if we're just going off the book, sam is younger than Frodo and he's Frodo's employee. So fine, I guess. How do you feel about this dynamic with Sam, pippin and Frodo?
Jessica:So I have a really hard time with this and I do understand that it is normalized a bit in this culture, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. Yeah, he even refers to Frodo as his master. Yeah, I don't care for it at all. I had I wrote oh no, is Sam a servant to all of them? Icky, is the bathwater ready? Have breakfast ready for half nine? Ew, pippin and I was like I know his dad is the gardener and he's his helper, but still that just feels very icky. It does.
Jessica:It did have a couple of notes from before that. Yeah, before they took off, someone was asking Gaffer Gamgee about Frodo. And I wrote nobody follows up. You heard him being asked and you just turn around and walk away. So nobody. So I just want it noted that even when I was reading it I was like seriously.
Kritter:Yeah.
Jessica:Yeah, I'm going to ask.
Kritter:Frodo's over here like, oh people just trying to get into my business, it's like a certain kind of people.
Jessica:Yeah, and then there's just this really brief thing where they batten down for the night and a fox walks by them. Oh, I wrote that down too and takes note of them. You know queer times three hobbits asleep under a tree, and I just thought it was a little bit more of that whimsical narrator that we've seen in the past.
Kritter:Yes.
Jessica:So it made it into my notes because I was like, look at you, that's cute.
Kritter:I love when stuff like that happens. It really reminded me of from the hobbit the purse speaking. You know, all of a sudden something random surprises you with, like its own perspective, right, yes, you're just like sorry, the fox has an internal dialogue, like any fox has an internal dialogue. Great, let's bring it on, yeah, and also it takes you like outside, so like we are. I think it's third person regardless, but even so, like someone within the story is observing what we would otherwise just be getting told from the narrator, and so the perspective shift is it's like a little breath of fresh air in my opinion.
Jessica:It is, yeah, no-transcript pause, beat like a, like a, just a, because it's from a different perspective and you know from from this narrator, I tend to imagine it that this is right before the fit hits the shan. So, yeah, uh-huh, it's almost like a little bookmark.
Kritter:Kind of. It also kind of reminds me of like you know, in certain like in the shining or like old more it happens more often in old movies than it does in new movies, star Wars, for example. They do the old school transitions, you know, like where it'll like swirl out of view and then swirl back into view. It fades to black, whatever. That's kind of what this reminded me of, where it's like it like pulls away for a second and you get this like cute little perspective and then it fades to black and they're sleeping and everything's fine, so it's fun.
Kritter:Yeah, absolutely, I like it. Yeah, I'm a fan. Um, so did you have anything else from before?
Jessica:My next piece of literary umami was from this chapter. Um, and it's the road wound away before them like a piece of string.
Kritter:Hmm, yeah, he's a simile. God, Tolkien is simile metaphor, all of it, big fan. Um. So, speaking of the road, the three companions get off the road in the nick of time when a rider in black on a black horse appears, sniffing really oddly and looking for something. Frodo almost doesn't hide in time and then strongly considers using the ring, which Gandalf said not to do. Uh, then we find out that the rider was looking for Frodo and Hobbiton, because Sam knew and just didn't decide to mention it to anybody. Any thoughts about this little sequence?
Jessica:Um, just that. It was. Uh, you know, the first sighting is uh already like they're still within the boundaries of the Shire. Um, it's pretty scary Just last night.
Kritter:They didn't put out a watch and fire at their campsite.
Jessica:It is crazy, um so, uh, the fact that he was reaching for the ring already. Um so, not on this one, but the second one, which is almost immediately after Sam, lets him know that. Oh, by the way, this is the person creature that asked my dad where you were. Um, it was that moment of the second sighting that I was like. He's been a ring bearer for 17 years. That ring has had 17 years to have an effect on him. That is, again, very different than the movies, yeah.
Jessica:And kind of lends more credence to that fact that the ring would already be able to encourage him to grab it, put it on.
Kritter:Yeah, he's reaching for it. He almost doesn't like the fact that he didn't hide. He almost didn't hide in time. To me, yes, he's like the ring playing a role, you know, because he's like, oh, this curiosity, this whatever, when really it's like the ring like no, stay up, it's fine, you're fine.
Jessica:And so he's had a couple of those right Like. I want to go out. I want to. It's a great day for a walk and let's go. And I'm like is this the ring encouraging him to leave the shire so that it can be found?
Jessica:Um let's get off the road. But I'm going to peek out, you know, let's you know. I think we're okay, I'm just going to peek out and see what's happening. All of these things I'm second guessing. And in the context now of the ring has been with him for 17 years there's a whole different ball game.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, at least, thankfully, it doesn't seem like he's put it on in that 17 years, which is great. Um, good for him for at least following through in that for a while. Um, so the habits. Unless you have any notes until they they encounter some elves, just in time for the elves to scare off another or the same black rider.
Kritter:The elves are led by Gildor Iglourian of the house of Elrond, and they let them join them for the night after they find out about these black riders. Uh, they absolutely delight in Frodo's conversation and occasional attempts to speak in Elvish. Any takeaways from the hobbits time with the elves?
Jessica:I mean, my first thing is we're meeting elves before Rivendell. My second is how hard is Sam fan girling right now?
Kritter:So hard.
Jessica:The hardest. And then the first thing that got me is they knew Gildor, knew Frodo on sight. So I went that was another thing where I'm reading and he said you know I'm paraphrasing hey, Frodo, how goes it? And I was like wait, what has Frodo met elves before Go forward a sentence? And he's like how do you know me? Okay, cool, it's not just me, yeah. So I thought that that was neat.
Kritter:It was interesting to me. I'm like, okay, you've, you've hung out with Bilbo, so like there's that option that they know you're from Bilbo. Also, do you have an aura now that elves can like kind of sense? You know just because of who you are and what you carry, and you're who your friends are with Gandalf and Bilbo and everything. It was kind of interesting that they just knew him I don't know.
Jessica:And then it did throw me off just a little bit. I think that I think that I'm already just a little bit suspicious going into this book.
Kritter:We are. We're under the influence of the ring here. We're getting a little like you know how? Do you know me? Yeah, it's mine. I found it Precious to me, Precious to us. Frodo gets named elf friend here, which I thought was interesting, much like Bilbo, and I'm over here like is it easier? Are they just giving that title away these days, or is it really that delightful that there's somebody else who can speak Elvish, which I guess it makes sense? Like if times are hard and evil is spreading and you come across somebody who's just like a light where you don't expect to find one, I think that might earn an elf friend title. Do you think he's earned it?
Jessica:Yeah, especially this. It was just a little bit condescending, right, but ultimately what I took away from that was they just don't have very high expectations from the hobbits and stuff. So again, this is a little condescending, a little a little, but also appreciative of his efforts to speak in Elvish and and so I thought that that was interesting. It was just, I was really, really, really, really thrown by meeting elves before we make it to Rivendell.
Kritter:So yeah, yeah, we did know that they were, you know, headed to the shores to leave forever, yeah, or what? Are we doing.
Jessica:Great havens?
Kritter:Yeah, they're traveling around. From the Hobbits perspective and never to return, possibly, I think that was during the conversation.
Jessica:They're just wandering band just.
Kritter:Yeah, and these guys are just chilling Like they're like we're just hanging out until we decide to go down there. Okay, whatever, I mean, the Shire does seem like a really nice place, so I guess I get it. So that's all I have. Do you have any final thoughts about these chapters before we pick an MVP?
Jessica:So I had one thought when they first started their trek, frodo groused a little bit about the weight of his pack and Sam offered to take more weight even though that's not that you know. The packs were well distributed and Pippin was like hold your horses, he's getting soft, he's fine. So I thought that that was just a great little throwaway interaction, that said a lot about all three of them Right?
Jessica:Yeah, like Frodo is a little soft, even by his own admission at one point so far in the read. Yeah, sam willing to take on extra burden regardless of what it does to him for. Sam and Pippin going wait a minute. No, that doesn't need to go like that, yeah.
Kritter:It's it reminds me of since we've all seen the movies here when Sam's like, share the load You're from that line.
Kritter:Yes, yeah. So Sam's trying to share the load and Frodo actually is like no, I should keep this, you probably have more than enough. So it's weird that they like boss around Sam and they treat him like a servant, but then at other times they're like oh, we don't actually like we were shouldering a lot of this work, also Like we might say you need to do all these things, but then Pippin is like taking care of things that you don't expect him to and Frodo's not trying to like get rid of some of the weight on his pack. So it's an interesting dynamic. I'm curious to see how it develops.
Jessica:Yeah, I will say that the amount of responsibility and action from Merry and Pippin just in this section feels like everything that you would expect from the first fellowship movie. You know what I mean. They were just portrayed as such little Rapscallion hellions. Yeah. Where you wouldn't expect anything out of them, and this is very different. Not that they don't have fun, playful natures or anything like that, but they are peers. They do, in fact, bear responsibility and take action.
Kritter:Yeah, okay. So, speaking of the people in this chapter, we we've got a new tradition where we pick an MVP from the chapters we've read for each episode. Cue the music, Jessica. Who would you name as your MVP for this episode?
Jessica:I'm gonna. I'm gonna take the easy way. I'm gonna take Sam wise. I really believe, you know, he steps up to be a partner and I have a feeling this is the start of a trend. But you know there was lots of great surprises of how much great friendship was demonstrated. Don't get me wrong, but I'm gonna give it to Sam for this read. Okay.
Kritter:That's fair. I tossed around Sam, I tossed around Frodo, but I'm gonna go with Gandalf because what, what, what, what.
Jessica:You did Gandalf last time, that's all.
Kritter:Oh, did I? I already forgot you know what. Which good, though I'm blind to everything except for this episode. Okay.
Jessica:Well, I'm the one that keeping the spreadsheets. That's why I know.
Kritter:I totally forgot, but okay.
Kritter:So I guess in the same way that Gandalf counseled Bilbo and got hit no, I remember because he convinced him to get rid of the ring and all that stuff, so in this case we find out about how much work Gandalf has done in the interim to get the deets, to get the piping hot tea on this ring.
Kritter:He figured out that it was the one ring. He hunted down Gollum. He's done so much stuff to do the right thing. And then when Frodo is like despondent, when Frodo is lamenting the fact that Gollum is still living, gandalf not only encourages him, tells him kind of what he needs to do, or at least leads him down the path of what he needs to do, but he also counsels him on how he needs to be going forward in order to be successful in the way that you know how Bilbo showed pity and mercy and how that's like the actual right thing to do. So Gandalf is just very impressive and vital in this sequence of chapters for the overall plot, in my opinion, as far as doing the work, gandalf did the work in this sequence.
Jessica:I just realized when you said that we totally glazed over the fact that he sought out Gollum himself, Like we totally he tracked him down. He tracked him down and out of him.
Kritter:Yeah, wait with Aragorn, right, or did he? Mention Aragorn. He mentioned Aragorn.
Jessica:He left him with Elrond right.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah. And also he may or may not have tortured Gollum the way it's described, yeah.
Jessica:Sounds a little sketchy.
Kritter:I don't have it written down, but when I was reading it I was like, hmm, okay, we're showing mercy, but also we're asking hard questions. With hard tactics. Yeah, but okay, but yeah. So it's Gandalf again for me. I have a feeling we're gonna. You know, gandalf isn't in some of these chapters going forward. There'll be trends. There'll be trends. Yeah, that's where we'll be.
Jessica:All right. So with that we're gonna wrap. We are looking to read chapters four through six for next week, and we want to say thank you so much for tuning in here for episode two of season two of but Are there Dragons, brought to you by our host, by your host, me, Jessica Sedai, and KritterXD. Please don't forget to follow us at but Are there Dragons on YouTube, Instagram and TikTok, the but Dragons pod with just one T on X. You can also find us on social media as KritterXD and Shelf Indulgence. That's it for us today. We're still working on new catchphrases for season two, so let us know on social media how you feel about this one. As Bilb o says, though it may be dangerous business going out your door, we're glad you're with us for this journey. Thanks, bye, bye.