But Are There Dragons Podcast
Episode 5: The One with Fredegar’s Fate, Weathertop, & the Ford of Rivendell
Kritter and Jessica continue their trek through The Fellowship of the Ring, this time discussing chapters 10 through 12. We learn more about Strider and the dangers facing our troupe, encounter incredible foes on Weathertop, and plunge into the Ford as we try to make our way to the safety of Rivendell!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Kritter and Jessica continue their trek through The Fellowship of the Ring, this time discussing chapters 10 through 12. We learn more about Strider and the dangers facing our troupe, encounter incredible foes on Weathertop, and plunge into the Ford as we try to make our way to the safety of Rivendell!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Hi and welcome to, but Are there Dragons? A podcast where two friends pick up a book at least one of them hasn't read and work their way through it a few chapters at a time. I'm your host, Kritter, and I'm your host, Jess.
Kritter:And we're continuing this adventure with the Fellowship of the Ring by JRR Tolkien, with me as the resident Lord of the Rings veteran.
Jessica:And me as the Lord of the Rings first-timer.
Kritter:In this, our fifth episode of season two. We're going to discuss chapters 10 through 12 before we dive in. Jessica, how are you feeling?
Jessica:A little tense. You know, when we left the group some things had happened and it seems like things are starting to ramp up a little bit.
Kritter:Yeah, we've got some meetings lined up with some people. People know what's happening in some ways at least Strider seems to and it's getting sketchy, it's getting tense, so there's a lot to much to consider. So how are things for you generally? Before we get into the books, are you reading anything other than this? I?
Jessica:am, so am.
Kritter:I no shame.
Jessica:Okay. Well, that's a whole new world for me, though. So, I have never done that, but I am reading the Cradle series by Will Wight, and so you might have noticed some action about that on your Discord.
Jessica:There's currently a Kickstarter underway for that. It's very exciting. The draw for that is that they're really easy reads not to undercut the meat of the story or anything but they're not as challenging as Lord of the Rings per se. So every other week I read Cradle on my off days when I'm not prepping for Lord of the Rings, and that's been okay. I've never been able to do that before in my life. I've always been. I can only be in one world at a time.
Kritter:So, it's kind of neat. Okay, we're experiencing something new. I am reading. I'm also experiencing something new because, while I have read multiple books at the same time for various reasons I don't always do it, but sometimes I do I am reading a Western for the first time. Unless you include, unless you consider Mistborn Era II to be a Western, but it's a fantasy Western. It's not, it's got Western, it's fantasy with Western vibes.
Kritter:I am reading a Western and it's called Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy. I have not read anything from him, even though I know the road had like an insane moment, like 10 years ago or something. But yeah. So a friend of mine that I convinced to read the Wheel of Time, who has read through the third one so far, told me that I should read this because it's his favorite book and I was like that feels fair because you know he's. He intends to continue with the Wheel of Time, which is a 14 book series, and the least I can do, I guess, is read this one book and so far it's an excellent book, like the. Cormac McCarthy is a beautiful writer and honestly, he reminds me of Tolkien in some ways because of the just vivid imagery that you get from him.
Jessica:So yeah.
Kritter:I'm having a good time with that too. How far? Along, would you say, you are in that Pretty far I'm on chapter, like I'm in the teens chapters. Wise On Audible at 1.2 times speed. I have about four hours left.
Jessica:So you're pretty far along.
Kritter:Yeah, I'm well over halfway done and while I'm not going to seek out other Westerns, I do very much appreciate Cormac McCarthy now, like I would definitely seek out more of his books after this, and also I would love a movie adaptation of this because it's like it is ripe for that. I think it could be a perfect like, a brutal like. Who's the guy who does? There will be blood, it doesn't matter. Can't think of his name, but like that type of like really violent, dark nonsense Is that Javier Bardem Are you talking about the actor?
Jessica:No, no, I'm talking about the filmmaker.
Kritter:And I can't, for the life of me, think of his name because I'm on the spot, but whatever, like somebody who's really good at grim, dark, brutal, violent things, they should make this movie because it's good. So Okay, yeah, so now you've got the Cradle series and Blood Meridian to consider alongside your Lord of the Rings, read that you're obviously reading with us everyone. So thanks for joining us and let's dive in Food for thought, yeah, food for thought, okay.
Kritter:So book one, chapter 10, strider. We start this chapter with a meeting with Strider, who wants to join the party but is initially met with suspicion from the Hobbits, especially Sam. Then comes old Butterburr, who remembered that Gandalf had told him to look out for a Mr. Frodo Baggins going by the name Underhill and had actually asked Butterburr to send a letter to Frodo for him three months earlier telling him to leave sooner than planned, which he obviously did not do. Any thoughts about old Barlaman Butterburr.
Jessica:So many thoughts Same.
Kritter:I wanted to smack him right in the face to start.
Jessica:I mean I went into the chapter First off. I went into the chapter loving that Sam is not immediately enamored with Strider. I love that Sam is like just because you say you should come with us doesn't mean we should just take you at your word. I love that about Sam in these moments Protective.
Jessica:I had so much frustration and maybe that was just the kind of day I was having when I read this part but for you to have had a letter for three months, three months, oh it hurts. It hurts, it stings, it burns.
Kritter:Yeah, it's like definitely leave by the end of July is what this letter says.
Jessica:This is September, by the way, in case anybody forgot, late September. Late September. The last week in September, but anyways, so that was really hard for me. Yeah.
Jessica:I think that says a lot more about me than it does about Butterburr. But anyways, that was. I did not appreciate that, Although I do understand, I do have empathy for being a busy person who is spread too thin and it just wasn't at the front anymore. And then also the suspicious mindset that comes with my Lord of the Rings read. I'm like is that really what happened or are you full of it?
Kritter:Oh, there's still a little suss on him.
Jessica:Well, but as we read the letter, you know and he's talking about Gandalf he really does seem to know him. And I don't think that Gandalf would trust. I started referring to them as dark friends in this chapter and I was having a moment because I was like, if you don't read Wheel of Time, that doesn't mean anything to you, nor should it. But, I was like the dark friendery here is massive and I kept having to tell myself to stop it.
Kritter:Yeah, I feel like we're like semi-tainted because we're so used to dark friends being like everywhere. Where is the Lord of the Rings? So far, the men.
Jessica:They really not.
Kritter:There's been a couple that have been flagged for us. Like these guys are sketchy, that's it. Everybody else has been pretty great yeah.
Jessica:So that was the vibe that I got Lots of dark friend vibes and all the baggage that comes with that from being a lifelong Wheel of Time fan, but I did my best to steer clear of it.
Kritter:Yeah, I can relate to the forgetfulness and, as you said, he did try. He described the process of multiple days trying to find somebody to make the trip and no one wanted to make the trip and then eventually he put it into a drawer and then forgot about it. I could, I get it and you don't necessarily know the dire nature of what's going on, necessarily also. But then, to his credit, when he found out that the Black Riders were from Mordor and were after Frodo, he was fully ready to support Frodo, batten down the hatches like, do whatever he needed to do to protect him.
Kritter:So, like and stand guard. Yeah. So even though I wanted to smack him in the face at the beginning when I found out he had this letter that he didn't send like ah, at the same time seems like a really good dude ultimately, yeah.
Jessica:So that was a little bit of a ride, but that was. You know, that was just such frustration and an expression of Frodo's frustration, right, Like he had been waiting for Gandalf and or word for Gandalf from that whole time. And now you find out there was some justification to that, because Gandalf really did try to get word to you. Yeah. It just didn't go through. Right.
Jessica:The other thing that was really noticeable to me for this front part was it almost sounds like Striders trying to sell himself a little bit on the group, Like I'm very knowledgeable of everything between here and the Misty Mountains and again, just a really kind of throwaway observation, but you know he's trying to sell himself a little bit to them.
Kritter:It feels like it's feeling very like a roll a persuasion check, yes and describe what you're saying. Yes, okay, so I'm a ranger.
Jessica:That means, why should I give you advantage? Yeah, exactly.
Kritter:So yeah, and we need to talk about this a little bit, probably a little later, but we've talked about how the Hobbits are different. Some of the Hobbits are different than they are in the movies versus the books, and I have the same thought about Strider, but I think that comes up a little bit later in my outline. So Gandalf's letter told the Hobbits about Aragorn and Warn Frodo against using it with a capital I.
Kritter:So I quite enjoyed this letter and all of its post scripts, and I want to include my post, post, post, post scripts, and I want to include my one of my favorite bits of literary umami, and I don't know if it's from the whole book, but it is something that I have kind of a backstory with, so I'll just read it. All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost. The old that is strong does not wither. Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes of fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring. Renewed shall be blade that was broken and crownless again shall be king.
Kritter:So, personal story, it's not that deep, but I wrote another verse to this and I had it hanging on my wall as an adolescent, and it was related to some like childhood love I had, or something, and um, and I would give so much money to like find that, but I think it's just gone forever. But I, literally, I like, I drew like doodles of like trees and stuff on the borders and I, yeah. So, anyways, this me and this verse go way, way back. So for you, though, the letter, any standouts.
Jessica:I mean this, this particular quote I was familiar with, even as someone who hadn't read the books. I couldn't wait to get to this.
Jessica:I didn't know that this was about Strider, and so seeing it in its full verse, because I had only really seen the top part made more sense, and so I thought that that was great, and going back and rereading it instantly, knowing that it's intended for Aragorn or is about Aragorn, really adds a lot to it. So it's beautiful. It's certainly literary umami in its own right, and then knowing even more how it ties into the story just makes it better.
Kritter:Agreed, Agreed. So after all this Sam was still suspicious of Strider. Would you at this point be more like trusting Frodo or suspicious Sam?
Jessica:Well, I don't know if I don't know if I agree that Frodo is trusting. So even I had made I had made notes about this that even Frodo wasn't immediately and made a comment about I'm willing to believe that you aren't quite what you appear, so I thought that that was good, that neither of them. I think we talked about it a little bit last episode how they're a little bit more worldly, a little less naive than I thought they would be, and I love that. I would probably be more like Sam. Honestly, loyalty is kind of a big deal to me, and so I think that I probably identify with that more I you know one another way in which I would probably identify with Sam more than Frodo. Yeah.
Jessica:And so in this, in this part, I was really like I don't remember getting any of this from Sam in the movies, like it really feels. It's nice. It adds more texture and more realism to him that he is so not immediately won over. I don't even think that it's. I don't think that it's unnatural distrust or unnatural paranoia. I think that a healthy mistrust is appropriate given the circumstances.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, although honestly, when I of course it's one of those cases of lack of communication. But they read this letter and Gandalf is like but don't just trust anybody, his real name is Aragorn, right? So that's your. That's the way you can find out if it's really him and they're not like what's your real name?
Kritter:It ends up that Aragorn eventually reveals his name kind of inadvertently, and at that point I'd be like, oh well, we didn't tell him that we needed his name to be that and he knew his name, but whatever, it still felt like Sam wasn't completely convinced even after that. So I don't know, it's it. It works out in the end eventually. Speaking of striders, though, Gandalf's unexpected departure from Bree and lack of word, complete lack of word since that letter, like three months ago, has Strider concerned. Are you concerned?
Jessica:I am, so this is the first time we hear anybody outside of the Hobbits talking about how impressive Gandalf is. So, you know, kind of an un Untarnished view. Yeah sort of a different perspective, at least on.
Jessica:Gandalf, and the quote that I wrote is Strider saying about Gandalf. I do not know of anything else that could have hindered him, except the enemy himself, capital enemy. So Strider who is? Who seems to be fairly formidable in his own right as a Ranger, just on word of mouth alone, before we even see him in action, and his take is it would have taken a very powerful enemy to have kept him.
Kritter:Right, right.
Jessica:I thought that that was worrisome for sure, but also interesting to hear how a new character perceived Gandalf and Gandalf's power.
Kritter:Yeah, I think somewhere and I can't remember where, but it maybe it was in this chapter, where they're like the Hobbits are familiar with Gandalf because of like his fireworks and like more silly frivolous things, whereas, like the outside world, some people know him for something much greater.
Jessica:Right.
Kritter:He is not just a parlor trick kind of a guy, and clearly Aragorn knows that side of them, whereas the Hobbits not necessarily Bilbo eventually discovered that side of him, but not all of them do have that knowledge. Yeah, so then we got a fun reminder that Merry hasn't been with the Hobbits or Strider this entire time, so he eventually, like after Butterbur sent somebody out after him, he bursts back onto the scene claiming to have seen and followed a black rider for a time. So this whole scenario seemed incredibly creepy, like following the disappearing, whatever anything. Stand out to you.
Jessica:Just that I was immediately alarmed, genuinely alarmed, at Merry being out there just kind of exploring completely solo. Yeah, I'm like where did you go and why? Then why? Why would you go anywhere by yourself? I know that you've got these really creepy dudes stalking you guys.
Kritter:Yeah, was it Butterbur who was like you're acting like you're on vacation right now, or somebody comments something like that when it's like yeah, how are you not all in your rooms with the door barred like you're going to the common room? Merry's taken a midnight stroll, like what is going on in your head.
Jessica:Come on, it might have been Strider, because Strider definitely made a comment about how he never would have, you know, agreed to the common room thing and would have told them as much if Butterbur hadn't barred him from seeing them before they made it that far.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for me, I think what stood out to me the most was how he was discovered. It was like it's not like lob and knob. What are Butterbur sidekicks?
Jessica:Knob and bob.
Kritter:Oh, I was close then.
Kritter:So, one of them discovers Merry, who is essentially a lump on the ground with two figures like leaning over him as if they're like about to pick him up. So that gave me the chills, like where are they? What are they doing, Merry? Where are they going, Merry? What's happening here? And then what happened to him was described I think it was by Aragorn as black breath, because Merry said he felt like he was underwater, like he was having a terrible dream. He went unconscious right Because of these, something that these things did to him. So I had forgotten that that was a thing black breath and and yeah, I didn't like it. I don't think I would like that for myself Anytime.
Jessica:No, yeah, and that was all again completely new to me. Nothing like that has ever been described that I know of in the movies, so that was incredibly alarming.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty pretty creep, creeptastic. So everyone caught Mary up on the events of the night and Mary took particular delight in Frodo's antics jumping over the moon in dance and turning invisible. He calls Frodo ridiculous and predicts that the worthies of Brie will be discussing his stunt for 100 years, and Strider responds that he hopes so. So this struck me as like a little melancholy, like there's a chance that the people of Brie don't have 100 years to talk about it. You know what I mean. Did you, did this, ping you at all?
Jessica:Yeah, absolutely For this same reason. So Strider at the top of this chapter we figure out that Strider knows enough about these riders to be shook, like he knows enough about them to be genuinely afraid of them. Again, a dude that supposedly has real skill yeah, and he's genuinely uncomfortable about these riders. So, and he's got this knowledge of the world. He's friends with Gandalf. There are other comments that he makes. So even just in the course of the short time that we've met Aragorn, I am 100% convinced and then some that he knows a heck of a lot more about what's going on than we do. Yeah, and definitely more so than the Hobbits.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, I just like I got this sad feeling, even though I know how it works out at the end, but I just get. When he said I hope so, I was like, oh, like, they don't know, you know, so many people don't even know what the that there's such a threat on the horizon, but Aragorn knows he sure does so. That's the end of the chapter. Final thoughts.
Jessica:No, I think there was a comment Aragorn made about how a hunted man sometimes wearies of distrust when he's asked why don't you? Just say who you were, and I thought that that was interesting and insightful. Not necessarily literary Umami, but just a moment of what a vulnerable moment. You know just what a, what a, what a beat of raw human emotion of sometimes you just want to be accepted for who you present, as it added depth to him.
Kritter:For sure, he's not just an archetype, he's not just your standard D&D Ranger, you know he has more.
Kritter:He has more to him. You know he's a, he's a person too, okay. So I agree, that was. He had some. He had some good lines in this one, in this chapter. But the next chapter, chapter 11, is a knife in the dark, a little scary, a little intimidating of name and we start this chapter back in Buckland with Fatty Bulger. So the moment I realized this I I thought he was done for. Did you think he stood a chance?
Jessica:Yeah, no, I was like oh my God, I've written off Fredagar from weeks ago and this is it. This is where they're gonna ice poor Fred agar.
Kritter:Yep, I thought the exact same thing. So Tolkien set the perfect, creepy, suspenseful tone. There's a gate that opens and closes without any source. There's shades of night creeping across the ground, the house and the quiet trees waiting breathlessly. I'm over here just like huh. How's it gonna happen? Because of course I haven't read these books in 20 years so I couldn't remember. But Fred agar was not idle. When he realized that he was under assault, he raised the cry in Buckland, sending the black riders on their way. I thought this was awesome.
Jessica:And he ran a mile a mile more impressive.
Kritter:I couldn't like. I mean, I could probably but dang good for him.
Jessica:I mean it's amazing what fear for your life will do for you. But I agree like borderline hitch cocki an opening right. Like just really incredibly well done for suspense. And when I read that you know he hadn't sat idle and I'm like, oh, thank God.
Kritter:Good, get out of there, my man.
Jessica:And then when they said that he had, you know, run a full mile, I was like that's impressive. That's impressive Because I remember something about when Bilbo had to run to catch up to the party when they had left from his house when they were first setting out. That was several miles and that took him like 20 minutes to do, which is real life. You know, it takes a while to run several miles, even if you have human sized legs.
Jessica:So, anyways, I was impressed, genuinely impressed, and I was so relieved that Fredagar survived the night.
Kritter:Yeah, and I was exceptionally relieved when the Black Riders decided that clearly the ring had moved on. I was like yes, yes, please think that. And I was glad that the writer gave us that.
Jessica:You know like I was really grateful for that kind of closure. Yeah because we had gone back to Fredagar, you know. So that was fulfilling for me as a reader because, you know, I felt validated for worrying about him before. Yes, and I liked knowing that that door was officially closed. And then the other thing about that is they knocked on the door and said open in the name of Mordor, and I was like ah, who's going to open this?
Kritter:Only dark friends.
Jessica:Mordor PD open up? I don't know.
Kritter:Well, and then they bashed the door in. So you know it didn't take long for them to be like. Well, we try.
Jessica:The open in the name of Mordor kind of threw me off a little bit. I'll say that I was like, really, you're just.
Kritter:But we also haven't like. We've heard that other people have had conversations with the Black Riders, but we haven't gotten to hear them speaking Right.
Jessica:So this is the first time they speak on the page as it were. So that was weird Like oh God we're carrying conversations now you know this very sibilant open in the name of Mordor Mordor, yeah, anyways, look at that. Now I want art that says Mordor PD, though, it's just OK.
Kritter:yeah, I'm going to have to consider if I can put that together for my merch. It's hilarious, ok. So Frodo and the Hobbits, back in Bree. They wake up early only find out that the ponies and horses in the stables had escaped somehow and let out something. So Strider asks them all how much they can carry, and Pippin says as much as they must and Sam says enough for two. Like I got this. So I found this to be funny, but also maybe somewhat prophetic. Did this? Did you take it in any particular way?
Jessica:Yeah, so the enough for two definitely made me think of things that I'm not supposed to know yet, so I tried to let that go, but also kind of a little bit of a throwback to when they first left the Shire and they were talking about how much their packs weigh, and Frodo was grousing a little bit and Sam offered to take more weight and Pippin's like no, no, he's fine. So it was kind of a backwards and a forward look.
Kritter:Yeah, very much, Pippin will do what we must. And Sam, like, yeah, I've got more in me than meets the eye. So I love the way that they all perked up when they realized that the lost ponies meant that they were going to be able to have a sit-down breakfast Like Strider's, like OK, we're going to have to eat on the road we got to get out of here. And then they're like, oh, the horses are gone and the hobbits are like man Silver lining, I guess we'll just have to sit down for breakfast. So then eventually they end up with one very sickly pony from an unpleasant man named Bill, who actually, after they left town, Sam pelted with an apple, which I thought was kind of out of character, but also a slay.
Jessica:Oh no, I loved it. Yeah, Because he was the dark friend. He was a source.
Jessica:Not going to keep saying dark friend, but he was the one who ran off with the other sketchy looking individual who you know I basically had assigned the you're a dirty, no good, so and so role too, and also he took really poor care of his pony so he deserved to be pinged with an apple, I agree. So I had marked it down and I was like you know, it's a twofer. I love the fact that Sam is not pulling any punches like, if you know, calls a rotten apple a rotten apple, and he also does it with humor, like waste of a good apple.
Kritter:I love that waste of a good apple. So, yeah, they leave Bree to like, to fanfare, which I'm sure was Strider's nightmare. Everyone's watching the party depart on the road because why not? Everyone knows they're leaving. But then eventually, obviously they have they make a plan to take a shortcut or whatever, and so this is. I have this. I've noticed and feel free to disagree I mentioned this earlier that Aragorn feels a little more merry in the book than he does in the movie, and so what I mean by this is he's often laughing as he's speaking with the Hobbits, like when Pippin says their last shortcut went terribly and Aragorn, laughing, tells him it's because he wasn't there. Are you finding this to be true?
Jessica:I mean that was the only one that I had noticed and that was really funny. I was like maybe it's not out of character to laugh, I think, and we've encountered this in other stories. You know not to keep WoTifying our Lord of the Rings time, but we've met really stoic characters that are portrayed differently. Yeah.
Jessica:Or vice versa right Characters who are portrayed extremely stoic Get a softer side, yeah. Yeah, I think that. I think that it's okay for him to have a little bit more dimension, at least for now. It doesn't take me out of the story.
Kritter:Yeah, there was another one that I remembered. It was when Frodo said I think if you were bad you would look fairer and feel fouler. And he laughs.
Jessica:He cracks a joke.
Kritter:He cracks a joke just like I guess I look pretty foul then or whatever. It was something self-deprecating funny. So yeah, there was just a few things, because we kind of just met Strider and already he's like cracking these jokes and laughing and stuff. And I'm like you know, when we met Strider in the movies he was very much serious, he was really serious.
Jessica:But again that breakneck speed. That breakneck pace was set that they were immediately on the run.
Kritter:It's true, yeah, so I'm liking this. I'm liking this. Obviously, I love the arag orn in the movies, but I'm also liking this version in the book, but I do think it's different. So the party passes through Marshes and thanks to this, I learned the word Midge, which is a little insect that kind of resembles a mosquito. Did you know this word? Because I didn't.
Jessica:I did know the word. I'm not 100% sure if I'm correct, but I believe. Up here we call them no-see-ums.
Kritter:Okay, so when I googled, it did tell me that there are certain names for them in different regions of the United States also, and that was one of them, I don't know that we have like in the Midwest.
Speaker 3:Noceums yeah, I don't know that we have them or names for them.
Jessica:That part was hard to read. Yeah, because they're real. They're real, you know, especially in marshy places. So if you go inland to freshwater marshes only where there's no estuary, it gets pretty intense, and I have family that lives through there and have spent some time through there.
Kritter:Yeah, we have mosquitoes.
Jessica:So you walk through like clouds of them.
Kritter:It is real. So, yeah, I felt it too, even though I'm not super familiar with this particular type of bug, and related because of mosquitoes, because how similar they are when Sam's wondered what they live on when they couldn't get a hobbit. So I've got that sweet, sweet blood type that bugs love. So I was like maybe I'm part hobbit, Maybe I really am part hobbit because I have the same problem with bugs, but maybe it happens to us all.
Jessica:I love it, that part. And then there was the other part that came. So you said you had to look up midges. I had to look up what a bolster was Okay, so the beds where the hobbits were supposed to be sleeping and Aragorn had said that he had put bolsters and stuff in. So I was like, well, you know, the cat's already out of the bag. I'm looking up words. I'll just look it up. And it's something that you put under your pillow to prop up your pillow.
Kritter:Oh, so that's. I wonder if that is the origin of what we know. Bolster as which is to like lift somebody's bolster, yeah, bolster somebody's mood up or whatever. That is so funny, I didn't like.
Jessica:I just use a second pillow for that, but cool.
Kritter:Same, but we now know that the second pillow can be considered a bolster, and it was.
Jessica:you know, it was the part where it was the next day and the other inn residents were horrified at the disturbance and the ruining of bolsters and I was like, okay, I just need to look up what a bolster is and just get over myself.
Kritter:It's time. It's time we got to figure this out. Yeah, so the marsh is unpleasant and fun fact, actually, the friend of mine who is reading the Wheel of Time has not read Lord of the Rings. He recalls being caught up and like stopping during the Fellowship of the Ring while Aragorn and the Hobbits are in marshes, and I was like this is right now, like that's what happened. What's so funny, though, is it's like a page of marshes, so I'm like surely?
Kritter:you could have kept going, but it's okay. You know I don't encourage somebody like forcing themselves to read a book that they're not into. Maybe he'll get back to it. Okay. So anything from this little journey before they get to Weather top peak your interest.
Jessica:Just like I said, I was very excited that Sam chucked that apple at Bill Ferney.
Kritter:I also speaking of Sam. He, out of nowhere, recites part of a poem the Fall of Gilgalad, surprising them all once again. I think he just constantly proves that there's more to him than what they expect, and every time they're like, wow, sam, I'm like get it, like yeah, you should be impressed, he's an impressive guy.
Jessica:And I mean not for nothing. I am too. I'm also impressed because I already feel like Sam book. Sam has more dimension, and again, this can be my perception right, we went through this with Thorin in a few other instances. But Sam's biggest feature for me as a takeaway from the movies is his loyalty, followed by his determination. But it was ultimately all things Frodo.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, now he's, he does, he's got, he's a scholar.
Jessica:He's got some dimension to it and I really am digging it.
Kritter:I agree. And also before they get to Weathertop they noticed flashes of lights in the sky far off one night. So I think that was probably a very easy thing to just completely overlook until it comes back up later in the chapter. Did you overlook it?
Jessica:I definitely took note of it.
Kritter:Yeah.
Jessica:But was like I don't. I think I'm just at a point now where I'm highlighting a little bit heavier because I'm not sure what has significance. Okay, yes, so, but I definitely did take note of it, but agree that it could be easily just bypassed as, I don't know, heat lightning or something I don't know.
Kritter:That's how, yeah, that's how it sounded, but then it's like why would they tell us about that? I'm always wondering why we're being told about things, which I guess is a good mentality to have. So they make it to Weathertop and there's evidence that Gandalf was there and got into a bit of a scuffle. There were scorch marks everywhere, whatever Turns out, flashing lights they'd seen a couple days prior, probably Gandalf. We also find some details about the Black Riders, thanks to Aragorn. They can't see like people who can see with their eyes, but they can detect people by shadows cast by their shapes, except when those shadows are destroyed by the noon day sun, which is why they've been cautioned against traveling. During the night they can smell blood, since the presence of people and the ring draws them. So that's pretty creepy. What is the creepiest thing about them, would you say?
Jessica:I think the sensing, the shadow piece, honestly so the whole well, and also them sensing people through their horses or through other beings. Yeah, no. It's a little shivery.
Kritter:Yeah, I don't want to be followed by them, given all those little magical powers. So here this is a fun little bit of lore that happens. Aragorn, to make everybody feel better, recites a poem about Beren and Luthien and we get a little bit of their backstory A mortal man falling in love with an elf, many adventures, etc. Did this pique your interest?
Jessica:Very, very much. So there's a couple of things happening for me here with Beren and Luthien One. It is a Silmarillion reference, as far as I know that I haven't read yet, but I at least know who they are. So I always go yay me, I know who these people are. So when I saw and of course they don't actually give you Luthien's name until the end of the poem, look after yeah.
Jessica:So I was like I think this is Beren and Luthien's origin story. Another thing is that while I was reading this, there are a couple of comments in there that I'm like is this Tom and Goldberry? Oh. So I mean not for nothing. It's probably a wild and crazy theory and we don't need to confirm or deny, but there were a couple of lines in there that I was like this could be a flowery way of saying and he does say that he predates the elves and you know, so it wasn't part of the poem and I'm just spitballing here where they go into the forest and are never seen again, or something like that.
Kritter:Or am I crazy?
Jessica:They go away and they're never seen again, but they do spend some time in the green forest. I don't know if I highlighted that part and I'm never going to be able to find it in time, that's okay. So yes, that's something about forests. It's in the story, right Like they go from the land and are not seen again, except for they spend a short time in the green forest. So it's definitely not super clear or anything but.
Jessica:I was like maybe, maybe it's them and they've come back into the world and they just populate this one part of the barrowdowns and that's their little nook of the world.
Kritter:Their little slice of heaven.
Jessica:Yeah, because it doesn't apply kind of immortality on their part, right, like they both die or whatever, but then they meet again somewhere right, or something like that, and Luthien is the only one who has actually died and passed from the world, which of course, is foreshadowing for me for things I'm not supposed to know.
Kritter:You're allowed to know them because they're from the movies.
Jessica:Yeah, so I did specifically take note of that because of the implications for Arwen, making that choice later.
Kritter:Much, much later. Much later. Yeah, the pairing of men and elves. It's always something to take note of because it is very, very, very rare. So, yeah, I forgot that they were pretty heavily described in the fellowship. Like I had forgotten that by the point that I read the Silmarillion, so it felt very new to me. But yeah, I'm a big fan of the full story and this little snippet, honestly.
Jessica:And then I got really big soft feels about how Bilbo is the one that taught Sam how to read and taught him these stories, and I got big soft feels for that.
Kritter:Yeah, bilbo seems like a really good guy and Sam seems to have a ton of respect for him, which I love. You love to see it, especially because he's like you know, sam was the son of Bilbo's primary gardener and then took over the role. So you're just like picturing Sam, kind of like frolicking around in a garden as a young lad and then Bilbo taking him under his wing and teaching it, like that's just so nice. Yeah, it's really nice. Okay, so here we are, the Black Riders. They finally confront the party in the dead of night and Frodo is compelled to put the ring on. When he does, he sees the Black Riders in their true, terrible, crowned forms. He lashes out with a sword, crying Elbereth Gethoniael, but in the process is stabbed. That ends the chapter. Anything you want to discuss before we move on?
Jessica:There were two things that happened immediately before that conflict. One is there is a quote and it says in that lonely place, frodo for the first time fully realized his homelessness and danger. And so that sentence I realized like, oh, he truly is homeless now, like Crick Hollow is never, his bag ends, no longer his. He really is homeless, and I don't know why I needed that explained to me, but I did so. I just felt for him so strongly. Yeah, you know one sentence. And then the other thing is that there's a comment in this area that the great enemy there is a great enemy and Sauron is only a servant of that great enemy, so like Sauron's, not even really the big bad. Yep, that's new information.
Kritter:Oh, that's fun. I love that for you. Yeah, yeah, he's just just a little. Well, I won't, just, I won't say, he's just another guy, not the big bad. He's the other bad Okay.
Jessica:So that's, I don't feel like I can't think of anything that's happened in the book up to this point that's ever indicated anything beyond Sauron. Yeah, yeah.
Kritter:No, I think you're right, so yeah, that is slightly terrifying. Yeah, I think the fight did. They did a pretty good job, like in the movie. This is what happens. You know Frodo, the ring and all that stuff. So I don't really have anything else to say about it other than ouch. You know, poor guy.
Jessica:And just sorry Frodo's blade glowed red like a firebrand, not seemed relevant because those were the blades that were gifted to them from by Tom from the Barrow and I'm just curious if that'll come up with. You know, Sam and Pippin.
Kritter:Yeah, cuz they got the same blades. Good point, good question, all right. Chapter 12 flight to the Ford. The black riders have retreated and Strider discovers that Frodo has been stabbed. The blade Frodo lashed out with was destroyed and Aragorn dressed the wound with a healing plant and the party set off with Frodo on the horse. Anything like from this little part, anything you, I don't know, got your attention.
Jessica:Um the Athelus plant you know, so it did remind me. Obviously. This this kind of made me think of when Arwen came into the story only Aragorn is the one doing it. It definitely bumps up his skill set incredibly, beyond what I initially thought, yeah, so it makes me wonder what else can he do.
Kritter:He's a bit of a potion master. You know, he's like brewing, he's boiling water, he's getting ready.
Jessica:Speaking of him as like a traditional rogue who had physical fighter skills, but not also having anything even remotely arcane, even in the way of potions or anything like that. So I'm curious to see what else he can do.
Kritter:Yeah, as someone who often plays a ranger in D&D, I find him to be a very convincing ranger, like one that is, you know, adept, because, like, what do you think about it? Like, these are the lands that he ranges in, essentially these are his, like his, his chosen favorite environment or whatever, and so it makes sense that he would know, like the leaves and you know, the whatever, the floor and the fauna. But, yeah, like he did step up even one more notch. He's like I'm going to craft this thing that you can, you know. So he's a, he's a smart dude and and also, like, what's funny is, I guess he's not half elf, but that's like that. So one of my rangers that I played in the past and D&D was a half elf ranger and I count I would lie if I was saying it wasn't mildly inspired by him. Heck, yeah, yeah, obviously.
Jessica:Obviously, and so there's that there's a little bit of discussion about. You know, Frodo is contemplating. Is the ring making him do things?
Kritter:a little bit, still more yeah.
Jessica:Yeah, and then my throwaway comment is that the pony that they took away from Bill Ferney is fatter and stronger and seems to be thriving, and I love the pony updates. I love that we got the healthy pony outcomes for the ponies they left behind, and happy they were. Yeah. And so I always appreciate a good pony update.
Kritter:I know this is way better than the hobbit, where whenever we hear about horses they're often getting eaten or whatever, and I'm like.
Jessica:I'm sure everything in life is a trade off. I don't know what it cost me to get nice pony updates.
Kritter:I'm sure I'll regret it at some point oh yeah. So now they travel for some days with Frodo in pain. Did you have anything from this, this traveling sequence that you particularly enjoyed?
Jessica:I don't know about, enjoyed. I think that it was well done. Greater detail again right about how his arm is essentially useless and how cold it is. You know Frodo just looks terrible awful in the movie. No real discussion of what was happening with him. They set up watches in pairs. You know that's the first time the hobbits have been part of that kind of rigorous watchkeeping and they're winding up going through what's called the Trollfells which immediately jumped off the page, so that's where I started to really take interest.
Jessica:Because, because they find Bilbo's trolls they find Bilbo's trolls, like I didn't. I you know, they asked if there were trolls nearby, and Aragorn's, like no. And then, you know, the word Trollfells just kind of jumped off the page and I was like, hmm, okay, but maybe now there are trolls.
Kritter:Troll cave. First they found the cave or whatever the dwelling, and did you so whatever? So I vaguely remember that the party ran into Bilbo's trolls. But whenever Pippin came sprinting back, yelling troll, what was going through your mind?
Jessica:Well, first off, I didn't remember if it was day or night.
Kritter:Okay, I did and I was like oh, this is yeah, okay, yeah.
Jessica:So I was like okay, well, we'll see if there are live trolls or stone trolls. And then I got trolled when Aragorn's like well, and when you come out yelling that there's trolls, but it's broad daylight, you've clearly forgotten history and how nature works. So I got trolled right along with him.
Kritter:Yeah, silly Pippin, sometimes he doesn't think things through. But yeah, so the troll statues are there. There's a bird's nest on one of those shoulders.
Jessica:Which I don't know if you remember, but I made a comment about a bird being perched. I should have gone back and looked for it when we were doing that section of the hobbit. There was nothing to keep them company but the birds. I think was a comment that was made in that chapter. And now, that's true, and that's all I could think of. When I saw the bird nest comment, I was like, oh, there they are.
Kritter:Oh, that's so funny, I didn't even think about that. That is a full circle moment right there. So there was another thing other than the trolls which I thought was such a fun callback, especially because we literally just read the hobbit. But the hobbits also ask Aragorn about Rivendell, and he admits that that's where his heart is, though it isn't his fate to sit in peace, even in the fair house of Elrond. So once again we're getting this like melancholy out of Aragorn, where it's like this sweet but sad kind of vibe, and I really appreciated that because I think it does add depth to somebody that we kind of just met. Let's see what else in this little sequence. So Sam makes up an elaborate song about trolls on the spot. Once again, to everyone's amusement, So Frodo calls him first a conspirator, then a jester and maybe next a wizard or a warrior. And I'm over here just like. That's right. Sam is king, we love him. Put some respect on his name. He is more than a servant fam, so I appreciate that as well. Yeah, yeah.
Kritter:So then, the party meets Glorfindel First impressions.
Jessica:Um first impression was like have I already met this character? So as we've established. I don't Google because I am a very compliant first timer, but I did go back through this book and word search in Kindle. Glorfindel and the Hobbit Glorfindel and I was like the name sounds familiar. Have I been introduced to him? And I've just forgotten. The answer is I don't think so, but I can't prove it. Nope, nope, he's a new guy. So this is Glorfindel, who dwells in the house of Elrond. So whole new, whole new person, whole new elf.
Kritter:Yep, and so this is another part, that is, that was one of the things that the book cloaks were very upset with. Is that Arwen replaced Glorfindel because we need more men rather than less in this movie, apparently? Um, like, why do women get to do things like ride horses? How dare they? Um, so yeah, did you feel the absence of Arwen here, or were you just? Are you just like, allowing the book to take you along for the ride without worrying?
Jessica:about Arwen. I mean, I am eager to meet her. I do find myself, as we go through these beats, being eager to meet the next. I'm also eager to spend more time with Elrond. I hope this time, um, because I feel like I commented when we were in it in the Hobbit that like Elrond gets introduced as he's super important, but not to this story.
Kritter:Yep, yep, exit stage left. This guy's amazing Wait, let's put a pin, let's put a pin on that.
Jessica:Yeah, so yes, as we get through. Not to not to rush them through their beats or their trip, because it is arduous, but I do find myself eager to meet them because, if nothing else, I just want to see how they hold up versus what I've got in my mind.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, so they are. They put Frodo on Glorfindel's amazing elf horse, because he is, he is flagging pretty hard at this point. Um, and in the last mile before the Ford of Rivendell, the Black Riders finally fall upon the party. Frodo is on the horse and he hesitates at first, but then eventually rides away. He makes it across the Ford and when the riders all nine because we were wondering where four of them were for a while they attempt to follow and the river rises up and takes them. Hmm, frodo collapses and that's it. Any final thoughts before we pick our MVP?
Jessica:Um, I just I thought that it was great. Uh, I thought the action was great, um, and I had just highlighted that it uh, glorfindel shouts out to them fly. He called fly. The enemy is upon us, and we had I think we had talked about that language at one point. Yeah.
Kritter:Um, and then he did, the little guy versus like run or flee, yeah, yeah. And then he did the little Elvis like narrow heme or whatever that our yeah, yeah.
Jessica:So I was saying it in my head, the way that or the way that I would say it.
Kritter:Yeah, obviously.
Jessica:Um, so I thought that that was great. Uh, and then just ending the chapter on Frodo, kind of shouting them out go back to Mordor from where you came.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, you won't have me. I love that, and they're all like lol. And then he was like bet, wow, I just turned into a full Gen Z right there, although I did, but it's okay. Um, it was a fun interaction. I liked Frodo having a spine, especially right after him, hesitating to flee, right Cause he's. He was clearly semi under the influence of these riders because he had been stabbed and that was the. That was the plan all along, but he stood up to them in the end, which was great.
Jessica:But again he invoked a couple of names that I don't know how he knows those names. So he says by Elbereth and Luth ien the fair you shall have neither the ring nor me. So Luth ien the fair we just learned about. But you know this, elbereth, I'm not a hundred percent sure on the source of that or what Frodo's familiarity is. So him shouting out strange names when he was wearing the ring and being stabbed just adds to my paranoia. Basically going to question all of Frodo's motives Uh, he's saying strange names.
Kritter:So you think he's getting fed knowledge from elsewhere?
Jessica:I don't know.
Kritter:The vibe that you're getting, or you're wondering. You're wondering if that's what's happening.
Jessica:Or is evil a parasite? Right Like they stabbed you and the evil is now inside of you and that's really, really graphic and awful.
Kritter:That is awful. Don't love it. But you know we are almost to the house of Elrond, so presumably we will find out what Frodo's condition is like. So we have a new tradition where we pick an MVP for the episode, for the given episode, for the chapters from this episode. So cue the music, jessica. Who is your MVP from this episode?
Jessica:I'm going to give it up for Aragorn. Okay. He did a lot of work to get him there. He did.
Jessica:He really did. Um, I feel like you know he showed up every day and he did the things and you know he only took them slightly off path. That was a comment that I meant to make, is you know when he actually had to fess up to? You know we went a little too far north, or whatever. I found that to be hilarious, yeah, um. So I still think I'd give it up for Aragorn. I know you know Glorfindel kind of comes in, swoops in and is very flashy at the end, but Aragorn did a lot of work to get him to Glorfindel.
Kritter:Yeah, without Aragorn they have nothing and that's why he is also my MVP. Aragorn takes the cake for both of us, this episode. And I thought briefly, like you know, butterburr was very respectable, as was Fredagar, but they like first of all Fredagar, uh, what am I? Butterburr, butterburr, with that letter, immediate elimination from consideration, like I'll give him an honorable mention, but you didn't send the letter and that makes me so mad. But you were very helpful, so respect. And then Fredagar, just like not dying, first of all, thank you, I was worried and then also raising the call and basically protecting his people, which was the whole shire which was so cool, the whole part of the shire they were in, yeah, buckland.
Kritter:Buckland, yeah, and so good for him, good for Butterburr, but it's got to go to Strider for the same reasons you said. He carried the hobbits where they needed to be, and also the nice the story, Beren and Luthien. Without him we wouldn't have gotten it. So, yeah, he's a big, big fan of him, and this little sequence for sure. Okay, well read for next week. Fellowship of the Ring Book II, chapters one and two.
Kritter:I will note that we are bringing in a very special guest for that one. Very excited. So get hyped and make sure you're caught up if you're reading along. But, as always, we do recap a lot so you don't have to be reading along in order to hopefully enjoy the podcast. Thank you so much, speaking of the podcast, for listening and tuning into episode five of but Are there Dragons, brought to you by your host, Jessica Sedai, and me, Kritter xd. Don't forget to follow us at but Are there Dragons on YouTube, Instagram and TikTok and at but Dragons Pod. Only One T on X. You can also find your hosts on social media, at KritterXD and Shelf Indulgence. And that is it for today. As always, we're workshopping new catchphrases for season two, so let us know on social media how you feel about this one? Thank you so much for tuning in. We love our listeners, like Beren loves Luthien. Bye, bye, bye.