But Are There Dragons Podcast
Episode 7: The One with Caradhras, the Watcher Under the Water, & Balin’s Fate
The Party is set and finally departs Rivendell. Kritter and Jessica follow along in Chapters 3 & 4 as our troupe sets out in earnest for their perilous quest. First, they face dangers from the elements above, have a close call with a Kraken to gain access to the fabled Mines of Moria, and then unholy foes below! The danger and loss they face become all too real for our group and yet they must soldier on!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
The Party is set and finally departs Rivendell. Kritter and Jessica follow along in Chapters 3 & 4 as our troupe sets out in earnest for their perilous quest. First, they face dangers from the elements above, have a close call with a Kraken to gain access to the fabled Mines of Moria, and then unholy foes below! The danger and loss they face become all too real for our group and yet they must soldier on!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Welcome to, but Are there Dragons? A podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and worked their way through it a few chapters at a time. I'm your host, Kritter.
Jessica:And I'm your host, Jess.
Kritter:And we're continuing this adventure with the Fellowship of the Ring by JRR Tolkien, with me as the resident Lord of the Rings veteran. And me as the Lord of the Rings first-timer In this our seventh episode of Season 2, we're going to discuss chapters 3 and 4 of book 2. Before we dive in Jessica, how are you feeling?
Jessica:I'm feeling good. We learned a lot at the end of last episode so I'm hoping I'm looking into these chapters going. I'm hoping it's a little less expo.
Kritter:Let's move along. Let's get the plot moving a lot. Yeah, I had the same thing, or she's like you know. If I was a kid I bet I found that the first time I read that book. I bet it was hard for me to get through the Council of Elrond and because there was a lot of stuff and the plot didn't go anywhere, it stayed exactly in the same place basically until the very end, I guess, when they decided to take the Ring to Mordor. Speaking of book 2, chapter 3, the Ring Goes South. After the Council of Elrond, the Hobbits have a debriefing where Merry and Pippin express jealousy that Sam was appointed for the quest alongside Frodo. Could this have been you wanting to go along?
Jessica:No, but I thought it was so darling, I thought it was absolutely adorable. First off, they expressed jealousy and Frodo and me assumed wrongly that they were talking about Frodo.
Jessica:No, no, they were talking about Sam, and I just thought that that was super precious and adorable and I loved them for it. But no, that would not. That would not be me. I'm in the same place that Frodo is, at the top of this chapter, which is, and I quote yesterday I dreamed that my task was done and I could rest here a long while, perhaps for good.
Kritter:Yeah, that's good for Merry and Pippin, I guess. So this is where we get a line that was used in the movie, Pippin saying they'd need someone of intelligence in the party and Gandalf replying that Pippin definitely wouldn't be chosen then, which I thought was. I love Gandalf snark, you know it's always fun to see it resurface, because he's not always in snark mode, but when he is it's just so good.
Kritter:So the Hobbits get to hang at Rivendell for a while, while scouting parties scour the land for signs of the enemy. Eventually, Elrond decides to appoint the full party. He decides there should be nine members to match the nine riders, and the members would represent the free peoples. Gimli the Dwarf, Legolas the Elf, Gandalf the Wizard, Aragorn and Boromir, the Men and Frodo and Sam the Hobbits. Elrond hadn't chosen the final two, but before he could, Merry and Pippin hopped in and volunteered themselves. So did anything stand out to you from all of this?
Jessica:The emphasis placed on that everybody was going to be going voluntarily. There's a lot of emphasis placed on that, I feel, through this part of the story. I think that it's important and I know where I assume at least that it's coming from all of the danger inherent in this quest. But I felt like it was definitely called out that everybody was going of their own free will.
Kritter:Yeah, I thought it was really interesting. I had forgotten that almost all of the party members didn't agree to go the whole way. They all had plans, essentially to peace out the. Boromir and Aragorn were headed to Gondor, but their path would follow the same route for a while. By the way, Aragorn has Anduril the sword reforged now, which is total. And then Legolas and Gimli agreed to accompany them at least to the passes of the mountains and only maybe beyond that. I found that interesting. Did that ping you at all?
Jessica:Absolutely, because there's no mention of dividing the party in the movies. So the fact that that was baked into the plan definitely caught me off guard, right.
Kritter:That was weird. I felt like they were in it to the very fires, the Vigil Morton's line. I'll be with you to the end, the very fires of Mount Doom. I was like I'm glad they added it into the movie because, dreamy Aragorn, you love to see it, but not so much in the book.
Jessica:It turns out that's not how it went, but I did love that Aragorn had a very sweet line where he asked Frodo to be his companion. He says yes, I ask leave once again to be your companion, Frodo, and I just thought that that was very sweet. Yeah, wish you fortune. And that there's commentary. There's dialogue about how the other hobbits don't understand the danger when they're putting themselves forward, and Elrond is very concerned that they don't understand the danger for which they're volunteering, and so a little bit of that.
Jessica:As much as I understand he's right. I'm like that's kind of condescending, just a little bit like a little yeah.
Kritter:in Pippin's case, though he's so young, I think the best part of it like you're a little kid, like how can I feel? Especially coming from Elrond who's like old, old like you are a child and sending you into this peril doesn't sit well with me, I can see that. But he did the same thing for Merry, although he did say like especially Pippin. So I do think it was very much age related, but it was kind of like they can do it.
Jessica:I can honestly say I hadn't really thought about it though. So I get that though, like if I yep, I get that feeling like you're sending children into war.
Kritter:Yeah, like I'm going to hesitate on that one a little bit. But then Gandalf talks him into it, which I was kind of interested. I feel like Gandalf just always knows more than he lets on right. He's like oh yeah, mary and Pippin are going. No, that feels right. It's like why does it feel right to you, tell me?
Jessica:but his reason- and we will never know. Well, his reason was he does not answer questions.
Kritter:He gave a little bit of a reason, though, essentially like friendship might be more important on this quest than like friendship and loyalty might be more important than strength of arms, which was a nice sentiment. But I still wonder, like was that really the reason to give it? Was that really the reason to Gandalf? Or did you have a vision? Like tell us if you had a vision, come on, I'll never know, I guess, or unless we do, unless we find out later and I've just forgotten. Okay, so we say goodbye to Bilbo once again and he bequeaths sting and a mithril shirt and fancy belt upon Frodo.
Kritter:The party gathers, including old Bill the Pony, and casts off after Boromir blows his horn to mark the occasion. Of course, any favorite parts from this departure sequence.
Jessica:From the departure itself. Just that. I love that, leading up to it that Frodo wanted to spend as much time as possible with Bilbo.
Kritter:Yeah, that was sweet.
Jessica:I loved that as they were getting ready, the fact that Sam said that Bill felt much the same way as the rest of them and would not be left behind, so I thought that was pretty adorable. But I do have some real Pony bias and that's just real life.
Kritter:Well, Tolkien even said Bill the Pony was the only member of the party that didn't seem depressed.
Jessica:Yeah, it's like nice I'm coming. Bill has really grown into himself in their time in Rivendell. And the fact that they're leaving at the very end of December. I'm going to go on record now and say that that is the absolute worst time to start a quest.
Kritter:I'm going to call that right now. Log it in the files.
Jessica:End of December, not when I'm going on quests.
Kritter:Just now From this departure sequence, I found Sam to be just insanely relatable. He's packing things that Frodo had forgotten so that he could whip them out. When Frodo's like man. I wish I had my whatever in this moment of triumph. I know I found that I was like man. I'd love to be that person where I'm the one on a trip that has anything anybody might need, which is part of the reason I always overpack or my luggage is always bursting at the seams because I'm like what if I need this? What if I need this fancy pair of shoes on my leisurely casual trip? You know what I mean. It's a problem, but it's also sometimes handy.
Jessica:It is handy, except for when you forget the rope.
Kritter:Except when you forget the rope. Yeah, that is the one thing that Sam forgot, unfortunately. And then I also noted Boromir on this quest, that they're like we don't need strength of arms, we need stealth. And Boromir's like well, I have to blow the horn at the beginning, it's just something that I do. I know that was very silly, but then I guess his reasoning was kind of interesting. He's like no matter how much I'm like dashing around undercover, at least we're starting our journey, not like thieves in the night.
Jessica:I was like okay, see, to me it reeked of. I'm going to wear these same socks for three weeks in a row, so I don't ruin our chances at the Super Bowl. That was totally the vibe that it gave me.
Kritter:And.
Jessica:I know that that is Superstition, but that's what it felt like. It felt like superstition.
Kritter:I know I feel like there's a couple times that I want to tease Boromir in this next couple of chapters, and now I feel bad because he's Don Marshall's stealth MVP.
Jessica:So I am feeling like that's going to influence my perspective a little bit. I'm going to try my best to step back from that. But you know, Don Marshall knows some things about some things and if he's willing to give Boromir the time of day, maybe I should too.
Kritter:I mean you're willing to give Gollum the time of day I am.
Jessica:And I realize that is a hot, hot take.
Kritter:Okay. So they're on their quest, and the party had flocks of black birds looking for them a lot like a certain sequence in the eye of the world, I might add and a couple of party members also witnessed a black shadow pass quickly over the moon. Did you think these were the birds or did you have any thoughts about what that might be?
Jessica:So, and then, of course, Aragorn making the comment that, well, it passed over the moon, it was going swiftly, and it was going against the wind. Yeah, notice this. Yes, so I wasn't sure I was like, maybe because I know that in the movies the Nazgu l do wind up writing these big things, which in my head is like Rake n, yeah, yeah from the Wheel of Time. Another Wheel of Time reference.
Kritter:They look just like I picture them. Yes, just like I picture them.
Jessica:So I don't know if that's it, but I'm worked up enough. Worked up enough as it is that it's birds, because I don't particularly like birds and, like you said, the eye of the world, vibes are strong. The birds as a, you know, a beast of the dark one, the dark influence. I don't, I don't like it.
Kritter:Yeah, it's very effective. It is. I'm just picturing like I'm outside on a quest of secrecy and I noticed something briefly pass over the moon. Not happy about it, not happy at all. All right, so, Frodo, over hears Aragorn and Gandalf having a bit of a debate about how to proceed over the mountain or under it. Basically, Aragorn really doesn't want to go under for some reason, so they take the high road and almost die from a freak snowstorm. Any standout moments from their time on the mountain? Um?
Jessica:I had to go back because I was like, wait, is the pony still with them? Like, are they trapped on the side of a mountain under an overhang with a horse? Yes, yes, they are.
Jessica:Yeah, yes they were, and so my former horse riding self is just like that sounds awful and I feel really bad for poor Bill. And then, of course, the I can't pronounce it the Caradh ras place, that they're in, the personification of it, how the place itself has bad vibes and, is you know, we'll take them on and even going into all the way, carried through right to the end of the chapter where it says that Caradh ras defeated them. So and that's a theme that was just raised maybe the last chapter where it was talking about the Shire and the Rivendell, kind of being touched, places that are preserved and might be islands of sanctuary. And this is the flip side of that and I don't. I don't feel like a place has been characterized as bad. It's been carried, they've been characterized as having seen war, having negative or evil influences pass through, but not necessarily being characterized as bad, and this place feels bad.
Kritter:Yeah, it's almost. It feels a little bit like the old forest to me in the way that it's kind of it's a little bad, like it's a little mean, a little tricksy. You know what I mean. It was trying to stray them off the path or whatever led them into old man willow.
Kritter:That forest held a grudge. It did, it did, Although you could also argue that it's like it wasn't the forest itself, it was the trees within the forest. But it's kind of like six one way, half a dozen the other. So I initially missed the part where they turned around, because that happened in like one line and after Aragorn was so against going the other way. It just happened so easily and everybody agreed like after the night passed or whatever.
Kritter:And so I had to reread it, or like I listened to it on audiobook and was a little confused, but obviously eventually gathered that they turned around. And then finally, whenever I was writing my outline and looking at the text, it still was something that I had to be like where did this happen? Where did they decide to go back? So, yeah, defeated by the mountain. And I also have a word of the day. Do you also? I highlighted well, I didn't highlight, I wrote down Doughty, the word Doughty, okay. So Doughty means brave and persistent. I initially, just in context, assumed it meant like strong, you know, or like burly, resilient, whatever, but no, brave and persistent. I also initially pronounced it Doughty, but it is Doughty.
Jessica:So I was saying Doughty in my head.
Kritter:Don't know why. I think it's Doughty because I did the whole like Google it and then press the. How do I pronounce this thing?
Jessica:No, I trust you over my pronunciations anytime.
Kritter:Okay, yeah, so that was a fun one to learn. And then I also really liked that we got a little piece of Legolas' personality in the sequence. So the vibe was Boromir and Aragorn were going to trudge through the snow because they were like the halest or the strongest or whatever members of the party. They were going to see what was up. And then Legolas like laughs or whatever, and he's just like, yeah, you get a plow, you get an otter to swim in the sea, and you would usually appoint an elf to walk around on the snow. And so he just like lightly springs up onto the snow and prances past Boromir and Aragorn and is basically acting as a scout. And yeah, I don't know, I thought he was, he was kind of fun, I like him. Like, is that more lines for him than than he got in the entire trilogy movie? Possibly? We're getting close, we're getting close.
Jessica:So, yeah, anything before we go on to chapter four I did have a couple things, so there was one at the top of the chapter that was, you know, just a throwaway comment. Bilbo is salty that Frodo let the SBs have Bag End on his birthday, no less. So I absolutely took note of that, because the. Sb drama continues.
Kritter:Yeah, he like post-mortem he's like I wouldn't have waited for my birthday, especially because that meant that that's when they would be getting my house.
Jessica:So yeah, and then there was a line from Gandalf and I'm going to paraphrase the lead up to it, but they were talking about how likely it is that the storm is intentional, right, whether it be from the mountain or something else, something done to them and someone else in the party, and I can't remember, who says the enemy's arm would have had to have grown long indeed to have done something like that.
Kritter:And.
Jessica:Gandalf just says his arm is grown long. Yeah, and I was like that is a terrifying sentence, like just how matter of fact you are.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, well, that's a really good thing to point out. That was pretty unnerving to say the least.
Jessica:And then, as they were in the storm, stones began to fall and I was like are we going to see more rock giants? It doesn't seem like it, but that was my thought. After being so fresh off of the hobbit, I did wonder if we might see those. And there was another good one liner from Gandalf. They were talking about who sent the storm, why the storm's here, this, that or the other thing, and says it matters little who is the enemy if we cannot beat off his attack? And I just was like good point.
Jessica:Very true. Doesn't matter who it is if you can't win the fight.
Kritter:Right Right, they didn't win, but they didn't lose Necessary, they didn't die. It's one of those. Did you die, though? The answer was no, so okay, moving on. Moving on to book two, chapter four, a journey in the dark. So the party debates what to do next. Some want to go back to Rivendell, others the gap of Rohan. But Gandalf tells them their only real option is to go under the mountain through Moria. But before they make this final call, they are beset with wolves. Were you surprised that we got wolves this early?
Jessica:I was actually and the fact that the wolves apparently are disappearing wolves in the light of day, yeah, so whether that means that their packmates dragged them off in the night, or if they're magical in some way and disappeared. I don't know, based on the evidence, but that was pretty unnerving. I did think that Gandalf's performance against the wolves was pretty OP, like he was quite the pyrotechnics Quite powerful yeah.
Kritter:No giggles needed for the rescue this time, yeah.
Jessica:No, just showing that he really it's not just Fizz bangs and whiz poppers A legit wizard.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, that would be so cool to see, although I did feel bad for the trees Because it's like burning in the trees. But yeah, go Gandalf. So they eventually make it to the place where the gates of Moria should be. It's adjacent to a dark, creepy lake and the party is on edge. We find out that this is the gate that was used by the elves, when there was friendship between the elves and the dwarves, so this sounded very familiar to me. Jessica, did this ring any bells for you?
Jessica:It surely did, Kritter, it surely did. This reading made me even more so want to go back and rewatch Rings of Power. I feel like the last few chapters have definitely reminded me of some subtext there that I would love to go back and rewatch and I probably will, independent of our read, because I feel like I can.
Kritter:So they also. We got, I think, what was the first bit of bickering between Gimli and Legolas here, unless I'm forgetting something. So we saw a fair amount of that in the movie and I can't remember if it happens more or less in the books, right, because it was basically just like Gandalf saying you know, when things were friendlier between elves and dwarves and dwarves were like, well, that wasn't any fault of the dwarves, and Legolas is like, well, I don't remember it being the fault of the elves either. So I'm kind of looking forward to more bickering. Did you like this part in the movies?
Jessica:It was okay. I feel like it started based on my recollection of my last watch, which has definitely been a while.
Jessica:I feel like it started during the Council. So this is beyond that. I thought that it was funny. I actually really loved the payoff of Gimli and Legolas through the movies, so if that's the trend that I'm going to see here, I'm totally good with living that in the books. I will point out, though I had made no note of it, that Gimli versus Legolas over who's the worst and Gandalf just shuts it down. He says I have heard both and I will not give judgment now, just having no interest in dealing with the us versus them conversation.
Kritter:It's like a parent not wanting to take sides with their kids.
Jessica:You're both the worst.
Kritter:Yeah, I'm not going to pick sides here. So Gandalf eventually finds a way to reveal the doors some magical words, some hand waving and then ultimately, eventually figures the password out himself, which is different from the movies. Did anything stand out to you from this sequence, including the fight with the Kraken? Is it different?
Jessica:Yeah, who prompted. It doesn't matter. Frodo Sorry.
Kritter:I guess it doesn't matter. No.
Jessica:I just I remember him being prompted and asked for the elvish word for friend, but I couldn't remember. So, yeah, no, it is different. The Kraken was scary. I was very worried about Bill, so I've gotten you know, I've gotten pretty spoiled so far in fellowship with the positive Pony updates that I've gotten.
Jessica:And having to let Bill go on the side of a lake that clearly has something nasty living in it is terrifying. And I'm just in my notes wrote no Pony trauma, please. And then Gandalf lovingly bestows a blessing on Bill that hopefully he'll find his way back to Elrond and nice green pastures.
Kritter:So yeah, I thought that was really cute, like he's literally like blessed him because Sam was so worried about him.
Jessica:So he actually did something.
Kritter:Yeah, same. I thought that was really nice and I didn't even think about it until just now, but it was giving like D&D, bless, or a there is, can't you be blessed? Okay, yeah, it's blessed. That's literally what he did for all Bill. Also, we didn't really talk about this, but the fact that Sam started eventually calling him Bill.
Jessica:Yes with nobody else's permission. He just decided to name him after his crummy owner, Right.
Kritter:So I guess he's just reclaiming it, he's making it his own, okay. So let's see. The thing that stood out to me was Boromir, and I said I'm going to poke fun at them a little bit, but he tossed a stone into the lake that they all agreed had bad vibes. I found that to be just about as dumb as blowing the horn at the beginning of the trek, and then, I'll also note that Sam was once again the hero here.
Kritter:He freed Frodo from the tentacle that had grabbed him, making the devastating choice between Frodo and Bill Bill. So that's a good friend right there.
Jessica:That's some loyalty right there.
Kritter:Yeah, like nobody else got Frodo out, it was Sam. Like good for him. Yeah, so that's all I had from the Kraken fight. Same for you.
Jessica:Right around there I had Boromir getting a little too big for his britches and Gandalf just shuts him down. He was essentially giving Gandalf grief and Gandalf's response was you may ask what is the use of my deeds when they are proved useless? And I just so again. We've talked multiple times about when Gandalf claps back. He does it with style. You're going to feel it.
Kritter:Okay, so they're in the mines now. There's no getting out, and the party marches for some time, relying on Gandalf for light and to guide them. When they decide to stop, they do so in a room with a big old hole in the middle. Any favorite moments from this?
Jessica:I got so mad at Pippin. I got so mad at Pippin, yeah. So in the movie, it's something that gets accidentally knocked in In the book. Like a child with no impulse control, he drops a rock over the edge.
Kritter:Okay, I too was mad. It felt just about as smart as Boromir throwing a rock into that pool, but the way it was phrased and I didn't like write it down, but it was literally like he was drawn to the hole.
Jessica:And.
Kritter:I'm like what's drawing him?
Jessica:And I took note of that too. I think I did highlight it, but I don't have it in my notes necessarily that he was certainly drawn to it in some way. But I just was like, oh, that makes it worse that. You know, it wasn't just. I bumped something, he really did it on purpose, but I do think that it's weird that he was drawn to it.
Kritter:Yeah, Like I'm not going to be drawn to a giant gaping dark hole on the ground on the ground without a rail around it, like the way it was described was. It was like it didn't have a rail. It would normally have like a cover, but it didn't have that. Presumably it rotted away or whatever, but it was. It did feel like the thing that he did was quieter right, because it's like in the movies, it was like a bucket for the well and it bangs and bangs, and bangs and this he literally just drops a stone and it's like goes on a long, long, long, long long time and then it's like bloop.
Kritter:But then, of course, the response is a bunch of signals and bangs and hammer strikes and that's like the beginning of the end of the piece of the minds of Moria.
Jessica:Yeah, unfortunately, and of course, the tongue lashing he takes from Gandalf for it. So Gandalf sits there and calls him out and goes this is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking party. And calls him a fool of a tuck yeah, it's a classic. Yeah.
Kritter:And then okay, there was also they were talking about. Like they have to cross chasms and stuff at some point and Sam's gets really mad that he forgot his rope. It's like they brought it back up. He brings all these trinkets of Frodo's that he's like when Frodo's missing this man, I'm going to pull it out and it's going to be amazing and, of course, the first thing that happens is the thing that he forgot to bring.
Jessica:You know what I could really use A rope.
Kritter:Gosh dang rope, poor guy. Yeah, so okay. So they travel another day surprised, because you know, in the movies they get attacked almost immediately after Pippin does this thing, until they reach a great hall where they decide to stop for the night and we get a nice little song about Durin out of Gimli and we find out that Frodo is walking around with the value of the whole Shire under his clothes and his Mithril shirt. So I got a little creeped out by the soft noise of footfalls following them. Anything stand out to you from this day of travel?
Jessica:So I wrote pattering feet. That's Gollum, obviously, but yeah, so that was my immediate take away. The other thing is that Frodo is talking about very casually again, frodo is talking about how the knife wound has changed him, how he can see better in the dark and he feels like he can sense evil behind him and or in front of him. And again, just a little uncanny how we just throw that crap in there with no just willy-nilly, we just throw those things into conversation.
Kritter:And that came up right Because he touched the pool and then he's like this pool, this has terrible, terrible vibes, yeah, and yeah, it's interesting that he's tapped into danger. The evil side of things.
Jessica:And I mean I certainly expect him to be forever changed from what he's going to face. Based on what I already know he's going to face, I didn't necessarily expect it to be already stated.
Kritter:Yeah.
Jessica:He still has a lot more to go through, yeah.
Kritter:Yeah, for sure. Okay. So the last. This one went by really quickly, but the last few lines of this chapter hit me pretty hard, even though I knew they were coming. The party comes across a room with a shaft of light shining down upon a tomb and the tomb reads Balin, son of Funden, lord of Moria. Frodo says he is dead. Then I feared it so, and Gimli casts his hood over his face. How did this hit you?
Jessica:This was really hard. So this was, as far as I know, the biggest, if not the only real spoiler from the prologue read that we did and it started for me during the council when Gimli was talking about going to find Balin and I was like, oh no, he doesn't know he's actually dead yet. So yeah, it was a strong ending for the chapter. For sure. It's heartbreaking. Yeah it's heartbreaking.
Kritter:The imagery was just this cold, especially because it was so dark. And then there's this like shaft of light shining down on his grave, because he was such a light in the hobbit he was a true friend. He was such a good person and companion.
Jessica:He was voted best. Dwarf by us.
Kritter:He was voted best dwarf by us, and so now we know how he went, and it's just it's really sad. It's really sad. It's like RIP, I guess. Anyways, okay, so that is it for the two chapters. It was very action packed, so not a lot of lore to dive into like there was at the council of Rivendell. Yeah, any final thoughts before we pick an MVP.
Jessica:I had. Just I definitely took notice here that both Aragorn and Gandalf have been here before, so I don't know that. I knew that as a movie watcher and the fact that you know the Tolkien does a great job, kind of teasing that there's this alternate route and the two you know reasonably different. The most seasoned people in the party you know are at odds about whether or not we should use this alternate route and what it would take for somebody of Strider's ability to not want to go. There is a thing Okay.
Jessica:And we never know why Aragorn doesn't want to go. That's significant.
Kritter:Yeah, you've seen some things.
Jessica:However, once the decision is made, he supports Gandalf. You know there are a couple comments made about. You know there's. I have no memory of this place is a line in the movie that is from the book.
Jessica:So that was fun. But he defends that Gandalf is the person who will find our way through the mines regardless. So that was that spoke to his integrity that he supports him once the decision has been made. But I did find it interesting that they both been there before and it had been a bad enough experience that Aragorn wanted to brave the elements.
Kritter:Yeah, I feel like Aragorn is. He seems so much less like prideful than Boromir in some ways. You know he's like I was wrong.
Kritter:You were right, like snow didn't work out. Now we're under the mines and you know, like everybody listen to Gandalf because he's the guy Like he's just totally fine with it. You know, unlike him and Boromir of butt heads a little bit, because it just feel like Boromir is quite a bit more prideful than he is and he's, you know, just, he just wants people to know, man, he wants people to know his, his plight and and everything that his people are going through, which is fair, obviously, but the way they go about it is so different that it's really interesting.
Jessica:So that was that. The only other thing towards the end of the chapter, the, the reveal that the wealth of Moria is the mith ril, not so much everything else that they might be mining, it's the mi thril itself. Yeah, so again, I just really I'm going to go back and I'm going to rewatch rings of power. Yeah, there is a comment made earlier by Legolas about how the elves of this area are different and that the lands speak to that. It was from chapter three. Legolas talking about those elves of this land are strange to him as a Sylvan Only I hear the stones lament them Deep. They delved us. So you know it's probably been a long time since elves have lived in this area. Yeah, so just all of this kind of kind of partially hidden lore treasure.
Kritter:Yeah.
Jessica:About some history here and how Moria came to be. And then the last thing was that luminous eyes were spotted and I was like this is totally Gollum. Gollum is following them to Moria.
Kritter:Oh, that would be so creepy I would have hate that. Like you know, Gandalf's like clearly aware, or at least in the movies he was like he's just got some part to play. So you know, in my brain, though, I was like how did he make it through? Like the door it was collapsed. What happened? So you know, is he like he's the master of underground creepy things, so he's squeezing his way through? I don't know, Just not a fun.
Jessica:I mean, maybe he's already in Moria, I don't even know.
Kritter:Like yeah yeah, he, I'm sure he's capable of finding some kind of hidden passage, because it's Gollum and he is Gollum. He sees the guy. He's the cave guy. Okay, well, this was a faster episode, but that's truly it. And since you don't think you have anything further, and I don't either. So we have a tradition where we pick an MVP from the chapters we've read for each episode. Queue the music. Jessica, who would you name as your MVP this episode?
Jessica:I'm going to have to give it to Sam Wise and I don't feel like I need to follow that up. I think his merit speaks for itself. You know he saves. He saves Frodo from the tentacle thing in the lake. So you know, that is very upper, uppermost and he just yeah, he's. He's already squarely in that ride or die mode.
Kritter:Yeah, yes, that was what I was going to say and who I was going to pick. I was going to pick Sam Wise, with an honorable mention to both Pippin for volunteering against all odds. I know Don Marshall wanted to pick him last time but Pippin didn't do his volunteer thing until this episode. So I do want to call that out and say that that was very brave, except for he kind of negated that by dropping a pebble into a well in the middle of Moria. And then also a shout out to Gandalf, because you know they probably wouldn't have made it through or you know they're they wouldn't have made it as far as they've made it in the minds of Moria without him, because he was the one that was navigating and had light, because he was their only light source.
Kritter:But I do think that primary concern is the fact that Frodo almost got eaten by a Kraken and the person who saved him from that was Sam. And I also think that the Bill the Pony like the fact that he defended him, the fact that he advocated for him to come on the journey, I just love. I love a guy who loves animals and so like that, is just so endearing to me and I just love to see it. So yeah, it's Sam for me too.
Kritter:We are unanimous once again.
Jessica:Well, that is it for us. So for next week, we'd like to ask everybody to read book two, chapters five through seven, and with that we want to thank you so much for tuning into episode seven of season two of but Are there Dragons, brought to you by your hosts, me, Jessica Sedai and Kritter XD. Please give us a follow at but Are there Dragons on YouTube, Instagram and TikTok and at but Dragons pod, just one T on X. You can find us on social media as Kritter XD and Shelf Indulgence, and that is officially it. Today. We are still workshopping new catch freezes for season two as we do, so let us know on social media how you feel about this one. May the stars shine upon your faces until we see you next week.
Kritter:Bye, bye.