But Are There Dragons Podcast
Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where two fantasy-loving friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and talk about it. We've already made our way through The Hobbit, LOTR, the Empyrean Series, Project Hail Mary, and we're currently working our way through Dungeon Crawler Carl!
But Are There Dragons Podcast
Episode 9: The One with Galadriel's Gifts & the Breaking of the Fellowship
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Join Kritter and Jessica for the last installment of their read of The Fellowship of the Ring, covering chapters 8-10. The party gets some amazing gifts (at least some of them do), has a picnic on the riverbank, and one of them makes a very tough decision.
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You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
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Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
The Fellowship of the Ring Gifts
JessicaWelcome to , but Are there Dragons ? A podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and work their way through it a few chapters at a time . I'm your host , Kritter , and I'm your host .
KritterJess , and we're continuing this adventure with the Fellowship of the Ring by JRR Tolkien , with me as the resident Lord of the Rings veteran .
JessicaAnd me , as the Lord of the Rings first-timer In this , our ninth and last regular season episode of season two .
KritterWe're going to discuss book two , chapters eight through ten , Before we dive in . Jessica , what's new with you ? How are you feeling ?
JessicaThings are good . We are on our way to the end of book one , and I feel like that's really a big deal .
KritterIt does feel like a big deal and even though this was technically supposed to be all one gigantic book , it does feel like somewhat of an end . You know , like a kind of I don't know . My heart is like . I don't want to say it hurts , but it just feels weird . I guess we're like one third of the way through , or if you don't include the hobbit , at least .
JessicaYeah , it's a big day .
KritterIt's a big day . Did you think we'd make it here ?
JessicaI did . I feel like you and I are pretty determined individuals . Once we put our heads to it , I knew we could get through it .
KritterYeah , I think you're right . And with that being said , let's move to book two , chapter eight . Farewell to Lorien . So we left off last week in Lothlorien . Celeborn confirms with the party that they're all continuing onward which they are , but there seems to be some confusion about where they're going next . This confused me because I thought they agreed Frodo was taking the ring to Mordor . Was this weird for you ?
JessicaIt was . So I was already confused because I thought Aragorn had left , and then Celeborn . I thought Aragorn was gone , gone , oh , okay , yep , I'm a winner . But anyways , and then also .
KritterWhy , sorry , I'm not being .
JessicaBecause he like walked away . He left while they were still with Haldir to go and see other people and I thought that that was him like leaving , leaving .
KritterOh .
JessicaI'm not saying it's right . I'm not saying I'm smart , I'm just saying it happened .
KritterOkay , sorry , I interrupted , please continue .
JessicaIt's all good . So I was already a little taken back , and then Celeborn talking about well , where are you guys going ? Again , I had I was already when we were at Council of Elrond the whole idea that people were talking about splitting up at certain points . But I don't know that . I knew the actual plan . So I think that I was just a little taken off guard .
KritterOkay , so like , but I guess the fact that you didn't know the plan See , I thought the plan was set in stone . You guys can do whatever you want . Boromir is going to go back to Minas Tirith , but Frodo , at least , is taking the Ring to Mordor . I thought that was set in stone . And now they're like what are we going to do ? I don't know , it's such a mystery . Gandalf's not here to make decisions for us , so that was just . I had forgotten that they were so indecisive in that regard .
KritterSo , yeah , it caught me off guard too .
JessicaI did think it was interesting that they painted it as almost like an idyllic repose , that they would go to Minas Tirith and have a brief respite and then , even later on in Frodo's mind , he's saying there's no reason to go to Minas Tirith the fires of Mount Doom are not there . So I agree with you that it was a bit confusing .
KritterYeah , yeah , okay . So this little section is a bit of a doozy . I've got a whole paragraph written out , but we're going to talk about all of it once I'm done with the paragraph . So the party receives many supplies and gifts from the Elves . Boats, cloaks woven by Galadriel and her ladies, lembas , which is apparently better than Beorn's honey cakes , which is high praise Rope , to Sam's delight and relief , a parting feast , a gorgeous sheath for Aragorn and his sword , along with a green gem on a silver brooch in the shape of an eagle . From Arwen , who is actually Galadriel's granddaughter . Boromir , Merry and Pippin get belts . To Legolas a bow and quiver . To Sam a box with earth from Galadriel's garden . To Gimli three strands of Galadriel's hair , despite him only asking for one , after Galadriel commanded him to ask for something . And to Frodo a phial with water from Galadriel's fountain , with light from Earandil's star trapped within it to be a light in dark places when all other lights go out . So that was a lot . Let's talk about the gifts . Any standouts for you ?
JessicaWell , I'm going to go with the thing that is not gift related . There are honey cakes and of course , they're made by the Beornings . I thought that that was the most precious thing ever . I also like the fact that they pointed out that the lembas was more tasty than cram .
KritterYes , they brought up cram , yep .
JessicaSo I just thought again I'm part hobbit myself at this point , but those were the first few things that kind of stood out to me , not to take away from the details on the gifts . I feel like the gifts were very well represented in the movie , so none of those were very surprising , although there was obviously more detail here . I thought that finding out that the cloaks were woven by Galadriel and her ladies and they've never been gifted outside of the elves Fascinating . They do kind of describe them almost like color shifting cloaks , which puts me in mind of another intellectual property .
KritterThe Wheel of Time , if anyone was wondering . Yes , I had the same . I was going to ask you about that , but I was like you know what ? I'm already talking enough when I list all these gifts , so I'm not going to bring that part up . But yes , warder color shifting cloaks that's exactly how they sounded to me .
JessicaYes , this is exactly what I thought of as well . So I was like that's probably one of the closest , one of the most immediate like that is almost a one to one for a WoT reference in my brain the fact that Gimli's gift was probably the most fun for me , because I honestly to me at least , it read as though he didn't do it by guile . He wasn't trying to ingratiate himself , he was just saying how could I ask for anything ? In his own way , kind of outsmarted it and still got a gift . Only asked for a single strand and that he was going to encase it in gold as something to memorialize the pact between the woods and the stone , meaning the elves and the dwarves . Just everything about that Gimli Galadriel exchange was precious . I just loved it .
KritterGaladriel being like .
KritterI thought dwarves were known for their stoneworking , not their silver tongues or whatever I mean it's like she was complimenting him on how flowery his verse was and , yeah , I thought that was so nice and , honestly , yeah , I agree that the movies really do it justice . But I'm not going to spoil this for you . But this has more significance and you kind of sense it with when the elves all gasp when he asks for it , do you ? I don't know if you remember that that happened . There's a reason for that and I can't wait for you to find out why and it's going to be a while .
KritterBut the strands of Galadriel's hair are important or like they're symbolic in some ways , and so this particular scene is like such an awesome call out to another piece of lore from Tolkien and I just , yeah , it's a beautiful read and honestly , you would think that like the light from Earandil's star is like the cool one , but honestly , the hair always stands out to me . I think it's such a cool gift and honestly , I feel like Boromir , Merry and Pippin kind of got shafted . You guys get belts , congratulations . Have fun with the belts .
JessicaAnd even the sheath that she gave Aragorn . I was like you know that's . I kind of thought of you , right , because it put me in mind of D&D . You know , any sword that you use with sheath will never break , will never tarnish , and I got a lot of D&D vibes from that . But it was , you know , a very cool gift in its own right . Yeah , I agree , Merry Pippin and Boromir were kind of meh . And then the last piece was like the comments that Galadriel made with each of these . Again , there were quite a few highlights that I did where I'm like this language was in the movies . This language is in the movies , loved it . The two other standouts that I had was the blessing that Gimli got along with the hair . So not just that he got the hair , but that , if hope doesn't fail , he's basically rich for a life with never a concern for dragon sickness . That's what I read .
KritterThat's pretty amazing .
JessicaThat whole thing like if hope doesn't fail , then you will be blessed and you will have gold and it will never negatively impact you . And I just was like , wow , that's quite the boon , that's awesome .
KritterYeah , yeah .
JessicaYou know , and the green stone for Aragorn really stuck out . Sorry , go ahead .
KritterNo , no , you're right , Because he wanted the green stone added into the poem about oh my gosh , about Elrond's dad I can't remember his name now .
JessicaEarandil , Earandil oh .
KritterEarandil yeah , thank you . He's literally right here . Yeah , and in the tale about him he wanted that stone in there and I found that really interesting , that like , oh , here we are , we've got the stone . Now it's a real thing . And Arwen was just like , for the longest time , I guess , staying in Loth lorien before she came back to Rivendell , so it was clearly just something that he was aware of . Yeah .
JessicaSo the revelation about Aragorn having now a third name Elissar didn't know that . Oh yes . And then and that Arwen is related to Galadriel . So in my notes , I'm pretty rude in my notes I'm like so is Galadriel , his G-ma in law .
KritterYeah , yes , actually , yeah , that is crazy . Isn't that funny . Elves make everything weird . Man Like it's pretty bizarre because when you think about it , well , never mind , Well , you kind of know this .
JessicaBecause it's the . Celebrian is Arwen's mother , right Elrond's wife that passed away . Okay , because I was , like Galadriel's , not related to Elrond .
KritterNo , this is Kritter with a quick PSA that Galadriel is in fact related to Elrond in multiple ways , albeit distant ones , elves , am I right ? Those ways , though , do not come up in the Fellowship of the Ring and will therefore not be discussed in this episode . Thank you for coming to my TED Talk and enjoy the rest of the episode , but Aragorn is kind of yes , just a little bit Well , and I only know that from .
JessicaI shouldn't know that , but I believe that it goes back to like Numenorean days .
KritterYeah , it's a way , way , way back it's a way back . So it's not weird , it's not weird .
JessicaIt's so long ago , it don't matter . So , yeah , just those are the things , and also , no , those are the big standout things in that they did a parting feast on the what is it called Eg la dil . They did a little picnic .
KritterThat was like we haven't dined with you yet , so let's dine together before you leave . It was lovely . We haven't really talked about Sam's gift , though , which I thought was so fun . It's so fitting for him , the gardener of G , for gardener Galadriel and Gamgee , like . I don't think she mentioned that , but yeah , she didn't , but that's brilliant yeah .
KritterYeah , I was just like that's nice to forget his last name , galadriel . But I love the idea of you know , sprinkle this in your garden , you know , and you'll have the flyest garden in all the land . For Sam , that's the perfect gift . I think that really was that really was terrific .
JessicaYou're right , I did kind of skate right by that . I was caught up in the , in the lore stuff .
KritterWell , I mean when you think about it like he got a box of dirt , but then you think about it you're like he's the gardener . It's magic dirt . That's so nice for him and also like he already got the awesome ropes . So that's another like boon for Sam . Right , that wasn't specifically a Sam gift , but it's still very exciting for Sam .
JessicaYeah , and I think I wrote something like is that that sounds targeted ? The fact that the specific mention of rope and I was like that feels like targeting , that feels a little targeted .
KritterLook rope . It's the best rope , sam's like what Never quest without it .
KritterYeah , he's like ah , I knew that , but I forgot it the first time . I loved it . That was great . And then , yeah , so the light from Earandil star with Frodo . We know about the phial , we know it comes up later . It's cool . It's a cool gift . We like it especially because , like he just had that thing with the fountain and the looking glass and all of that , so it's got like a personal tie with him also , along with being a helpful light nightlight . So , yeah , a good set of gifts . We like the gifts . I think 10 out of 10 with the good .
JessicaI highly recommend .
KritterYeah , okay , so the party's time in Lorien ended with a bit of literary umami , in my opinion . They're sailing away because they got boats and it goes . Lorien was slipping backward like a bright ship , masted with enchanting trees , sailing on to forgotten shores . Gimli and Legolas teamed up in one of the boats , and now friends comfort each other after the loss of their time with the fair Galadriel as the boats sail south down the river . Any thoughts before we move on to the next chapter ?
Journey Through Perilous Waters
JessicaI also thought that was beautiful and had taken note of the fact that it said that Legolas and Gimli are now fast friends , which I found precious . But I had also taken note of the retreat of Galadriel and Celeborn .
JessicaAnd I love the way that it was described and the way that it talks about how like they were pulling away from the land versus you know that the party was pulling away from them , so almost like the land was retreating from them . I just thought it was very neat the way that he described it . I thought it was very unique .
KritterYeah , she was like a beacon behind them of some kind . Yeah , that was , that was really nice .
JessicaAnd then the last piece was to that fair land . Frodo never came again and I just was like that's so sad when they do that .
Kritterit like hurts my heart a little bit . It's really sad . So the narrator in this book is not .
Jessicathe narrator in this book is not as nice as the narrator in the last book .
KritterI'm going to say that I agree , not nearly as quippy . Basically , all the little inserts we get are like oh , by the way , you should be sad about this . By the way , this super cool thing never happens again , just like yeah what ?
JessicaThis is awesome and he'll never get to see it again . Yeah .
KritterLike gosh dang man . That's brutal . Okay , well , on that note . Book two , chapter nine , the Great River . The party passes an uncomfortable journey on the water , with everyone lost in their own thoughts and Sam catching wind of their silent pursuer . Any thoughts about this ? Opening little bit with Sam .
JessicaI saw a log with eyes . I mean , come on , this is so freaking cute .
KritterI know , I know he's like . You're gonna think I'm crazy Frodo's like I would think you're crazy , except I know you're not .
JessicaYeah , I saw a log with eyes , and then I fell back to sleep and now I'm just telling you , I saw a log with eyes . I just oh and , by the way , aragorn already knows about it , right right , right you find out later , aragorn already knows . And Frodo .
KritterHe's like . They're just like operating with the knowledge of a little demon assassin following you . Didn't bother to tell you .
JessicaSo that's great . I did think that this chapter , like we come out of this chapter , you know , chapter eight again feel like every time we pit stop in with the elves, we get some really idyllic scenes and a breath and then we immediately go into . You know , the dark . Lord hasn't been idle while we were in Lorien and you know , Boromir's attitude has taken a turn all of a sudden . And you know , and then all of a sudden there's a great black winged creature . You know , it does seem that if we are not going to stay with the elves , we should stop going to see them , because really terrible bad things happen after we leave the elves .
KritterYeah , and like , for example , Frodo's encounter with Gollum , you know now that they know that they need to like keep watch over him . It was so creepy . It was so creepy . And the fact that Gollum keeps evading Aragorn , a literal ranger , who's trying to catch him , it's just kind of chilling because you know how amazing he must be at like river water travel and how dangerous that makes him because they're on the water right now . I don't know . I don't think I'd be able to sleep if I were them and knew about it .
JessicaThey're very casual about being tracked by Gollum in a way that I absolutely would not be .
KritterYeah yeah , gollum just like climbs up on the side of the boat and he's like right there with Frodo . Like how do you just not freak out about that ? I don't know , it's just creepy , creeptastic . And oh my gosh , there was another thing I forgot to mention . But Sam , he basically acknowledges how worthless he is on boats and he calls himself no better than luggage . I thought that was so funny . This is like what am I supposed to do ? Like I'll watch .
JessicaIt's a little harsh , but I do love a self-aware king , you know what . I mean , yeah , like we all have different skills , and when you know that it's not your skill , and not trying to sell it otherwise , I see you , you know , I hear you . Yeah , but you are better than luggage .
KritterI promise . Yeah , luggage can't take first watch when Gollum's chasing you so right , you know it was a noble thing for him to volunteer , mm-hmm . Okay , so they were trying to outrun Gollum and travel through the next nights , but then they run into some rapids and orcs and , as you said , a mysterious and dreadful flying creature that Legolas actually takes down . Did this and did this encounter surprise you ?
JessicaIt did . I had no way to know . You know first off them , being in boats for days and days on end that none of this is anything like I've encountered before . This is all fresh , content . Nice to see Legolas get a chance to use his new bow . Glad that it worked . Yes , well , it did . It did take me by surprise , although the orcs trailing Gollum not as surprising , especially , I believe Aragorn makes a comment about it , about how , how Gollum would be like a pathway for the bad guys to find us . Essentially , yeah , yeah , so that was . That part was a little less surprising . But , and again , they're on the boat . They're on the boats for ten days .
KritterLike ten Days , it's a long time boat ride it's a long ride , guys , and the sorry , the fact that the , the giant flying creature , shows up this early . Totally forgot about that , completely .
JessicaYeah , didn't realize it and so I wrote down because I was like you know , great winged creature , blacker than the pits of night , but it this , this one in this reading also said it didn't act like a cloud . So Earlier in this book there was a comment about a shadow crossing the sky , but it doesn't going in the direction of clouds , mm-hmm . And and I was like okay . So I Feel like this is confirmation that that was a black winged creature too .
KritterUh-huh , uh-huh , yep , they're . They're being stalked by not just orcs , not just Gollum big giant flying creatures that thankfully Legolas manages to take down occasionally , and , and notably Gimli was like , this guy can shoot like . I love how he gave Legolas his props . That was really cute .
JessicaI love that they're already besties . I Genuinely love that . Yeah , so that was kind of crazy . I also thought that it was great . So I do love it when the characters give me context because I lose track . So Aragorn mentioning that they're basically only about 60 leagues away from the southern part of the Shire , and them telling us that we're 10 days of travel , those things helped me . Yeah , cuz I'm like just reading and I'm so passive and I'm just along for the ride and I'm like , yeah , that's a lot of travel you guys have done over the course of this book to have only essentially gone 60 leagues .
KritterYeah , but don't say that , because I am doing . I am doing fantasy hike , which is an app that you can download on your phone and it keeps track of your distance , so like if you have an Apple watch or something that like tracks your distance . It keeps track of your distance and compares you to mr Underhill Frodo and I have been Desperately trying to catch up with him as he rests in Riverdale and I am nowhere near Granted . They are like traveling day and sometimes night , so it makes sense their way ahead of me . But don't say it's not very far , because it is because I've been traveling for almost two months now . I'm nowhere near .
JessicaMr Underhill , I would never criticize . I would never criticize . They covered a lot of ground in 60 leagues . Really isn't that short of a distance , but when you compare it to a whole books worth of action facts ?
KritterCompletely not . I'm not Disputing that at all . Whenever you look at the map , you're like , oh okay , this could be farther , I get , I get it , I get it .
Jessicabut then we're not measuring the centimeters on the world map Right . Still , it feels like they've gone a million miles . It feels like they've gone around the world and back again , mm-hmm , for all the heartache that they've been through already .
KritterYeah , not yet , though not yet , yeah , did you ? You look like you were about to say I have a couple other things .
JessicaThere were definitely a couple of words in this chapter I had to look up . Oh , I didn't , I didn't flag any . What were they ? Okay ? So there's one called wolds Wold s , which is essentially a more like a raised , moor . Okay , and eyot, e y o t , which is basically like a stone island there was another one too , but I didn't find it when I went through my highlights , so they're just a couple words , so I'm just reading through and I'm like , basically I just don't know Geography .
KritterI don't know , I didn't know those either . I Didn't know those either .
JessicaI just didn't look them up this time , totally fine never heard of these things , so you know that's always humbling cuz you know I spend most every day thinking I'm pretty smart , until you know you're reading Tolkien .
KritterHmm , I could be smarter . Yes , okay , so was that all for the moment . I can move on in the .
JessicaYou can move on . Yes okay .
KritterSo Sam , actually , speaking of like distance and time , Sam questions how long they spent in Loth lorien , because the moon phase is all messed up . So it turns out , time Absolutely flew by while they were there , rich were the hours , though short they seemed . Did this convo About time and the passage of time and the elves carry any interest for you ?
JessicaMm-hmm , absolutely , because I did spot it in the reading . The first time . Sam looked at the moon and made a funny face .
JessicaOh , and then you know the next paragraph or whatever , and later on in the conversation it evolves that you know that wasn't the phase of the moon that we were in when we left , and so I was trying to while they were talking , I'm like , are we thinking that time stopped , or time like I want to know which way we're going ? Um , and so we went with sped up and I definitely , um , my , my ears perked up as it was , as it were . Um , when , when Sam looked at the moon in a funny way like that , caught me immediately .
Anxiety and Guilt in Tolkien's World
KritterI like how Tolkien has a version of time flies when you're having fun , and it's time flies when you're with the elves . The elves just throw a bunch of chaos into the mix , right Like right . When you're done with them , bad stuff happens . While you're with them , time passes and the dark one , the dark one , the enemy , makes moves .
JessicaUm , so , yeah Well and then again you go back to that first quote for this chapter for me , which is the dark lord has not been idle while they were in Lorien and he's had a full moon longer than we have Right Now .
KritterWe know how much time that , like the gains that he's made while we were just chilling , looking at , you know , fountains and eating lembas , or though I guess they didn't get the lembas until the end .
JessicaSo not even one . It was definitely unsettling that realization .
KritterI know , every time , like in fantasy , there's usually some sense of urgency , right ? You know , wheel of time , Lord of the Rings , whatever there's some quest , some thing that they're trying to get to accomplish . And whenever time is wasted or like you can't help but waste time , I get like anxious . You know , there's like there's moments in some books where you have to spend time doing stuff that isn't moving towards the goal , and that time always just kind of freaks me out . So just like what is so bad happens in the meantime , and it almost always does so , but I guess that keeps things exciting .
JessicaSo I mean . But that's real life too , right Like in the meantime , time is still passing outside in the real world .
KritterYeah , that's true . It's true as a kid and sometimes as an adult . This is probably really personal , but I feel . But I feel like if I have a lot of stuff to do , sometimes I'm like I can't believe I have to take a shower right now , because it just feels like such a waste of time . You know what I mean , but I do it .
JessicaI have so many other things .
KritterYes , For record the strongest record shower we shower I just sometimes wish I didn't have to , which is totally normal .
JessicaI don't know , I don't know you , you shoehorn a lot into your days , chica , that , with all the respect in the world , I could not keep pace with you , yeah , and also Mr . Kritter loves his showers .
KritterSo I get that some people wouldn't want . They would want the want , that moment for themselves . Mm , hmm , people are different , yes .
JessicaBasically You're like that's 20 minutes . I could have done two tasks on my to-do list .
KritterYeah , and like forget it , if it's a where I have to wash my hair shower , is that ?
JessicaOh God .
KritterThat adds centuries on time that I have to spend . But nobody cares about that . We can move on All right . So Boromir has really started to get on my nerves Constantly bugging them about going to Minas Tirith . One particular line of one particular line of his made me fully roll my eyes . Quote to the tall aisle I will go , but no further . Then I shall turn to my home alone if my help has not earned the reward of any companionship . So I was raised Catholic and this felt like the Catholic guilt trip laid on so thick . I don't know , are you similarly , similarly , a little similarly annoyed with Boromir at this point ?
JessicaYeah , so funny enough , I do have Don Marshall in the back of my head . He's under so much pressure .
KritterYeah .
JessicaSo first off , at the beginning of this chapter , Boromir is acting strange in the boats he's biting his nails , he's talking to himself , he seems off already In his eye , in his eye , and then when he starts talking about that , yes , that is , and I am . I'm slightly Oppositional in nature anyway . So even if I want to do a thing , if you tell me to do the thing , I'm probably not going to do the thing . This kind of thing that will send me 180 . Reverse psychology will work on me pretty much always , because I will . I dislike everything about this approach and I do think it does have to do with a little bit of my religious background .
KritterYeah , no , I feel you , man , I feel you , so I did not like that .
JessicaBut at the same time I do , you know , I remember what Don was saying about the incredible amounts of pressure that are being placed on him , and also throwing back to what was said at the beginning of the chapter about he's starting to act different . So the other part of my brain is going . The ring is starting to have an effect on him , yeah , and it's making him not . You know , it could possibly contribute to acting in this way , as opposed to just saying , you know , I'd still appreciate any Gondor can get . Yeah , it's so , I get it .
KritterYeah , I am . I'm struggling to be like he's it's the ring . It's not Boromir , it's the ring .
KritterBut it's kind of like we always Apologies to somebody who's listening , who hasn't read the Wheel of Time , but I will explain this reference that I'm making . Boromir being influenced by the ring reminds me so much of something that happens in Book One of the Wheel of Time and in the show , so it's not like a giant spoiler . But one of the characters , Mat , finds a cursed dagger and and he starts becoming a little turd Ferguson , and so that is like what is happening , like I love Mat most of the time , but during that sequence I'm like you are the worst . And so this is this is my Mat moment where I'm just having a hard time being like I know it's the ring for , or I know it's the dagger , but I still hate you right now .
KritterSo , anyways , I was struggling with Boromir a lot in these few chapters , so there was that part and then him challenging .
JessicaAragorn . So he made a comment . I'm paraphrasing because my kindle is charging so you don't have it in front of me . But he makes a comment about I have said that we should go to Minas Tirith , but I am not the leader of this group .
KritterAnd I I got the Ick . If I would send him , I would send him to time out . I would be like you need a minute .
JessicaYou are having big feelings and I'm going to need you to take a time out . I'm not the leader .
KritterYeah , like I agree and I feel so bad because I know I don't know why I'm so triggered by a fictional character , but I am OK , so so am I .
JessicaAnd I think it's part of the . I think part of it is that like that Catholic guilt .
KritterI'm over here like you were trying to guilt trip me and I hate that , so yeah . So I'm going to take a time out Me and I hate that , so yeah it's real , real bad doing my best not to hate him , ok . So let us know in the comments how you're doing not hating Boromir at the moment . If you're doing as well as we are , yeah or we need to start a support group , or a group like people who need to be more empathetic about Boromir's plight .
KritterThat could be a great support group Boromir coping skills , yeah . Oh my gosh . Ok , so the party sales , through the sentinels of Numenor , great statues of Isildur and Anarion , and Strider goes full . Aragorn , son of Arathorn , Elissar , the Elfstone , heir of Elendil , did this hit you in any type of way ?
JessicaIt did , when he said he wished Gandalf was there to see it . So I , even though there was no real action you know it's not like it was I think the reading even made a comment about a king returning home Fores hadow much , you know them crossing the threshold of the sentinels and his immediate wish that Gandalf could be there to see it . That was so relatable to me , to . You know , have somebody who understands your travels to date and how you wish that they could be there for such a momentous occasion . Yeah , and so I was already kind of in mind of it , you know , like hey , that's my dad .
JessicaAnd oh , I wish , I wish my magic dad were here .
KritterGranddaddy Isildur versus yeah , Granddaddy Gandalf . It was a little sad I also . I felt really bad because he definitely did crossing that threshold . You could see how torn he was because he's like here . I am Like I thought this was going to be the thing I was going to do , but now the Gandalf's not here , you know .
The Breaking of the Fellowship
KritterDo I take the ring , do I help Frodo ? Like what do I do Right ? Like we're reaching across roads and I'm gonna have to make a decision In my brain again after the Council of Elrond and everything and just I guess maybe having book knowledge , I'm like the ring has got to be the priority . Right Ring is the priority number one . Yeah , like , okay . So it's not just me , it's like this decision seems easy .
KritterYeah , okay , okay , and I guess we're the next chapter kind of displays this also , but like Sam was the same way he's like why are we talking about me that ?
Jessicameans I mean I do remember them talking about Legolas and Gimli pairing off and going towards like where Dain and where Gimli's other dwarf relatives would be . Yeah , that general direction . And I do remember some discussion about Aragorn and Boromir potentially going to Minas Tirith . I just didn't , I didn't walk away from it , thinking like those are side quests . You know , the main quest is the ring . The ring has to wind up in the fire .
KritterYeah , no , and I do like after the Council of Elrond , the plan was , you know , because I was surprised by this that Aragorn was going to go with Boromir to Minas Tirith . But that was again when Frodo had Gandalf and Gandalf is gone . Now Aragorn is the leader of the Fellowship the ring the ring being the operative word and still he's torn . But I guess obviously he's got like multiple allegiances . But it was tough for me to be like how are you still trying to decide , man ? It seems obvious , but it's fine . He was feeling a lot of feelings at that moment and I guess that's totally understandable . So , no , no hate there . So the chapter ends with a little exposition from our narrator . Wilderland was behind them . They could go no further without choice between the East Way and the West . The last stage of the Quest was before them . How are you feeling at this point ?
JessicaAgain , I feel like it should all be about the ring . That's how I'm feeling in this moment , Like there is really only one quest .
KritterAnd that quest is the quest of the ring man . Yeah , no , right there with you the whole time , Yep , but we're on the same page Speaking of pages Book Two .
JessicaI'm incredible at transitions , that transition .
KritterBook Two , chapter 10 , the Breaking of the Fellowship . That is a daunting title , yeah . So Aragorn stops the party at the feet of Amon hen Overnight . He's restless and confirms with Frodo , using sting , that orcs are in the area , though not close by just yet . The next morning Aragorn asks Frodo , as the ring bearer , to decide Mordor or Minas Tirith . And Frodo asks for a minute . He needs a minute to think . So he separates himself from the party , but not for long , because Boromir follows him to try to convince him to bring the ring to Minas Tirith . While it may have started somewhat pleasant , it gets really intense , more intense than the movie , I would argue . Any standouts from this scene .
JessicaUh , I think this scene kind of brought out . I really I can't wait to rewatch these movies . Honestly , I can't wait to rewatch them . This scene brought out . I think there were parts of this that were captured in the movie that I didn't catch , like I just had gone so used to the dialogue , I kind of glazed over it . So the part where he says again terrible paraphrase he says well , thank you for telling me exactly how you feel .
KritterAnd .
JessicaBoromir takes that to me , so then you'll come with us , and he's like no , no , no . But now I know exactly what I need to know and so I'm like I don't think that wait , was that in there ? I don't know , was that in there ? And so I agree that the way that it reads is incredible . It has a lot of menace to it because it does start so kind of innocent .
KritterUh huh .
JessicaAnd it definitely takes some turns and gets , you know , precipitously darker and darker , right . Yeah , no , I thought it was incredibly well done and I just can't wait to see it again and compare .
KritterYeah , there was some parts of this that I guess I don't really know . I'm not going to get like deep about this , but I will say a trigger warning for sexual assault . But like this , some of the stuff in this conversation kind of reminded me of that kind of a situation . Right , he's like why are you being so unfriendly ? Right , and then you get the line he goes from like super friendly , with the gleam in his eyes is totally unhinged , one of the last lines . You can lay the blame on me . You can say I was too strong and took it by force , for I am too strong for you halfling . And suddenly he springs in front .
KritterIt's like he like worked himself up to like doing , trying to take what he thought was his right , and so like there were just certain things about this that I was like wow , like this was written so well that I could like see this type of situation in like a real life thing like happening , and I don't know it was just it was really chilling . I thought it hit me way harder than it hits me in the movies , for sure , because I do feel like the corruption is more prevalent in the book . I think Boromir's like eagerness to help his people is definitely at the forefront in the movies , but this is like no , he's under the influence , right he's . He's gone full evil at this point , not like under his control , but still like . It's just , I don't know , chilling . Gave me the heebie jeebies , sorry Go ahead .
JessicaI feel like this is a perfect example . No , no , no , I feel like this is a perfect example of I , like you just said , I have no doubt that Boromir thinks that he's doing this because he's trying to save his people , and this is a tool that he needs to save his people .
JessicaI feel like this is a perfect kind of spiral , downward spiral , really scary downward spiral . That shows exactly what Galadriel was speaking to . Right , I would have the best of intentions Gandalf even hinted at it . Right , like , I would have the very best of intentions . But he essentially , over the course of a conversation , worked himself to a point where he would do physical harm to obtain that item . Yeah , you know , that took place over the course of a conversation . He has not been in possession of the thing . He hasn't even seen the ring since the council .
KritterHe did ask to see it and then got annoyed when he was refused .
JessicaYou know , and so it's just it . It's really , and I also wonder . So I did see the parts that you were talking about and , in terms of the violence piece that you're talking about , absolutely had the same red flags . I can't help but wonder you know if that's also kind of a mechanism of where we're at in our lives as adults ? I don't know that , 17 year old me would have gotten that .
KritterI don't remember getting that at all , yeah .
JessicaBut I think that it's like I think that being a little bit older , having a bit more mileage and understanding just how horrible human beings can be , unfortunately , yeah , it lets you understand the full depth of that threat .
KritterYeah yeah , it was like Boromir being a full grown warrior man and Frodo being this like little . Yeah , it was . Just there was a lot of elements to it that I was just like , wow , this has so me . Well , one particular real world parallel that I cannot ignore here . But yeah , it was , it was intense , basically , I don't know . Yeah .
JessicaAnd then you know , and then him all of a sudden coming to you know , all of a sudden just coming to and I'm so sorry and I didn't mean it .
KritterAnd too late , bro , yeah , too late , sorry . So yeah , speaking of Frodo , escapes with the ring on and makes his way to the top of Ahmon hen , to the seat of seeing where signs of war appeared all across the land . Eventually he feels the eye capital E and just manages to slap himself out of it . Sorry , slap himself , snap himself out of it and take the ring off before the eye pinpoints his location . Then he is resolved he must take the ring to Mordor , away from the fellowship who it was obviously already affecting Thanks to that encounter with Boromir . So is this a good choice , Jessica , going off on his own ?
JessicaI kind of think , yes , just because it showed him what he needed to do . I do want to talk about there was a moment when he's on the chair and when he's seeing all of these things so it is called the chair of seeing and I had a couple of things happening for me . One is talking about how , when he had talked to Galadriel about the ring being able to show him things , so this felt like a foray into that . He was seeing all kinds of things before he felt the pressure and the presence of the eye seeking him out . The other thing is that he had two powers in him , I think is how it was worded the language in the story , and so that pointed to it .
JessicaYou know the voice that wanted to keep the ring off , the voice that wanted to take the ring off , and this pointed to the duality of Gollum in my mind . Yeah , you know , and , and so those were , those were moments that really kind of or the duality of Gollum as presented by Andy Serkis . I guess I should say yeah . So I just those were . That was kind of an Inference but also kind of neat that you know he had , he had two impulses and which one was the stronger and thankfully , the the right impulse , the good impulse , won out , mm-hmm , that's kind of what that made me mindful of in that moment .
KritterYeah , there was one half of him that wanted to be like I'm right here , I'm gonna bring it to you , mm-hmm . And then he was like what am I doing ?
JessicaYeah , that's not me not for the first time , right ? I definitely not the first time the ring has encouraged him to make shady , shady choices .
KritterYeah , so good for him , like good for him to overcome that . For sure Frodo is he's , he's , he's doing some good work in this particular sequence of chapters , taking the lead in a lot of ways and just being a . Like his conversation with Boromir before it released viral data control , he was very much like no , I'm gonna take your counsel , I see what I need to see , you know what I mean . Like he was , he was really taking it all in and , I don't know , seems like a really smart guy , basically , even though the ring is always gonna tempt people just some people more than others , I guess . Okay , so the party starts wondering what's taking Frodo so long ? And Sam reads him like a book .
KritterWhat good is Minas Tirith anyway , like he's obviously not deciding that . He's deciding something else . But then , when Boromir gets back , Sam realizes Frodo's plan , being the one who knows him the best , and chases him down to the riverbank when he almost drowns before Frodo saves him . Sam insists on accompanying him to Frodo's Ultimate delight , even though at first he's frustrated and the two set off on what the narrator calls the last stage of the quest to end the fellowship of the ring . So how much did this make you ? Absolutely love Sam .
JessicaCuz for me this , of course you are , and I'm coming with you . I mean , I Can't . There aren't many moments in television , in media , that are more meaningful to me than that . And , yeah , you know , this is the source material for that .
KritterYeah , you're going to mortar , obviously , and so am I , and I'm coming with you . Yeah , like that's great , we're going together , yeah .
JessicaYeah , no , I had the same exact Track . You know , like , of course , Sam is the one who goes no . No , that's not the question . You guys are not asking the right questions , that's not the question . This is the question . Yeah , so everything about that absolutely solidifies him as a Top-notch ride or die .
KritterYeah , he is , you know , family . There's nothing more important than family , to quote the great Vin Diesel . Yeah , so the the last stage , like the narrator said that a couple of times . I thought that was an interesting word choice because , even though this was supposed to be one big book , this is just one third of a story . So how are we about to go into the left ? What do they mean by last stage ? Did you find that wording weird ?
JessicaI did find that wording weird also . Just pure distance wise . It's not a third , it's a quarter right , so like , what do you mean ?
Kritterlast stage narrator ? What are you talking about ?
JessicaI don't know , but I feel like they're being sketchy and not being a hundred percent with us .
KritterI guess the last stage could be like well , the party was together , but now this is the stage where they're not . Maybe , I don't know , that's the only explanation I could think of sure , okay . So how did you like this ending compared to the movie ending ? Because it is quite different .
JessicaI Think that it's good , honestly , the Especially knowing , because I already did know that you know Tolkien did not want to break this up .
KritterMm-hmm .
JessicaI feel like this is a decent , natural breaking point where we see the fellowship break , yeah , and the the parties start splitting , splitting ways .
KritterMm-hmm .
JessicaSo I think from that perspective it makes a lot of sense . Yeah , I Think I had mentioned to you earlier that there's just a little bit . You know , the the really big action pieces were a couple chapters ago , but we also experienced that with the Hobbit right that mm-hmm you know we don't With multiple chapters to go and there's four or five chapters left .
JessicaHow'd we get there ? Yeah , so . I think that this , I think that this was a good breaking point , based on what I know so far right , which is just book one yeah , I Don't know any better , though right , right .
KritterYeah , I guess I do feel like the movies did the movie thing where they're like okay , we need to , we need to beef up the set , we need to add some drama , we need to , we need to add some fight scenes . You know what I mean . So that felt .
Fellowship of the Ring Book Analysis
KritterThe ending of the fellowship movie is very Hollywood and fun and exciting and whatever .
KritterAnd the ending of the fellowship of the ring book is More Like I don't want to say emotionally impactful , because there's some things that happen in the movie that don't happen in the book that are Very emotionally impactful , but there are . It's just it's got a different vibe , it's yeah , it's . It's like the Sam and Frodo thing is so sweet and meaningful and I love it and that's a nice thing . To end on right , it's kind of like the day-in-wa or whatever you want to call it , the thing that's like coming down from the climax .
JessicaI didn't know yeah , yeah , thanks .
Kritterand then there's the , and then there's the the Boromir thing , which to me is like oh my god , this was , this was a lot Right , this , that was , that was it . That was like the actual climax , I guess , if you have to put a climax towards the end , and so it was just Like some big stuff happened Fellowship breaks up , but it wasn't quite as like Fireworks .
Jessicasee , I guess it's the movies and I think that I liked it . So to your point , I I Liked this better than having it be combat driven . So again , the combat at the end and Thinking about it now comparatively Combat at the end of the movie . As I remember it from whenever my last watch was to this yeah , makes me very mindful of how Frodo left right like everything's been under duress , with people chasing him from the get-go , and that's not necessarily how everything has been staged in the book .
JessicaSimilarly here with the end of you know , book two is that the movie represented it as they're all under attack and they're all frantically just trying to get away . But this is more mindful and intentional and I actually prefer that .
KritterYeah , Frodo made the decision that was . Nobody took that decision away from him . Mm-hmm , yeah , it was good , it was really good . I love them both . Like , the movies are my favorite movies of all time , so of course , I love how the movie goes . I think the movies , I think the fellowship of the ring is a perfect movie , actually , mm-hmm . But yeah , I just think sometimes books are like need or can totally be different and still be Amazing , and I think that applies here . Of course , of course , we'll be talking more about the book as a whole Whenever we do our wrap party , but we're not there yet . So that is it for the , these chapters and the book . So any final thoughts about these chapters before we pick an MVP ? No , no , I'm good , feeling good , feeling good . Okay . So we've got a tradition where we pick an MVP from the chapters We've read for each episode . Cue the music Jessica , who would you name as your MVP this episode ?
JessicaI'm gonna go with Galadriel . She gave them some really good swag .
KritterOkay , big fan of the swag .
JessicaShe gave them some really killer stuff and and yeah , I'm going with Galadriel , dang it .
KritterWow , that is not what I would have expected . So I'm over here torn a little bit between for the first time , I think I think Frodo and Sam like I don't know that Frodo's gotten much love this , but I am not the one keeping the spreadsheet so I actually can't remember .
JessicaBut Frodo really are we doing it for the book or for the trilogy ?
KritterI Don't know , are we doing ?
JessicaMVP by book and MVP by trilogy if that's okay with you . I mean it's fine . It's fine , she did give him some really cool stuff .
KritterI Believe you , I believe you Wait . No , we're not doing MVP for the whole book , we're doing MVP for the chapter . What ? Sorry ? Let me understand . This is the MVP for these chapters the spreadsheet . Yes , In our wrap party , I think we will announce for the book , for the book .
JessicaBut then we can do you yeah like on the journey , if that's okay , cuz I'm . I'm thinking about who's represented on this spreadsheet , and I think you're probably right . I don't think Frodo has gotten anywhere near the love that he deserves if any .
KritterI don't know if anybody's picked , if they , if we had , if we did pick him it was very early on , cuz I really don't remember , but anyway .
KritterSo , but I'm not gonna let that sway me , because my heart of heart says it's got to be Sam , because even though Frodo held his own against Boromir , made the right decision . I think he , he like , he did all the things he needed to do . But Sam was positive , positively delightful and like the best friend you could ask for , and if Frodo managed to leave all by himself , he would have lost , like he would have , he would have died . So Sam , saving him from that fate and reading him like a book , and loving the rope thing that Galadriel gave them and getting the box of dirt , and Realizing the Gollum was following them with the eyes and the log , all of that stuff , like he was just my favorite one to read about this , these , these three chapters , personally . So , okay , it's , it's Sam for me once again , and and I do I just want to give a shout out to Frodo because I know he doesn't get a .
JessicaTon of love , he doesn't he ?
Kritterwould he ? Hopefully he will . His time will come , I'm hoping so , but for now , for me it's Sam Mm-hmm . Yeah , so Anyways , um , wow , that's gonna be it . I guess any , that's it . Thoughts before I send us out .
KritterOkay , so we'll be going live on YouTube on March 5th for our season 2 Fellowship of the Ring wrap party where we'll talk all things fellowship . Of course , we will plan to put the recording , the audio recording , on to the just audio only podcast Platforms that we have . But if you want to watch us live , you want to get in on the chat . That'll be March 5th in the evening and I will schedule it on the but Are there dragons ? YouTube So you'd be able to see exactly what time , but most likely it'll be 730 pm or 8 pm Central time , because that's typically when we roll . So get excited for that . I know I'm excited . We'll go over things like book MVP . You know our overall thoughts about the book , how we like this book compared to the Hobbit . I think will be a fun conversation because we season one was the Hobbit and and , yeah , how we're what we're looking forward to , I guess , in the in the books to come , so you don't want to miss it . Mark your calendars for March 5th .
KritterAnd finally , thank you so much for tuning into episode 9 of season 2 of but are there dragons brought to you by your hosts , Jessica Sedai and me , Kritter XD ? Don't forget to follow us at but are there dragons on YouTube , Instagram and TikTok ? And but dragons pod ? Just one T on X . You can also find your hosts on social media as Kritter XD and shelf indulgence . That is it for today . We are still workshopping catchphrases for season 2 and maybe during our wrap party we can decide what our favorite one was , if I can figure out how to do polls . So let us know on social media how you feel about this one , and I'm gonna channel my inner Galadriel again . So don't laugh . Let your , I gotta get in it , okay , yeah , let your heart not be sad , though . Night must follow noon and Already our evening draweth nigh . It was okay , but thank you .
KritterYes , thank you for listening . Have a good one .
JessicaBye .
