But Are There Dragons Podcast
Bonus Episode: The Fellowship of the Ring Wrap Party!
Jessica and Kritter have finished and share their final thoughts about The Fellowship of the Ring in a YouTube livestream wrap party. Who won MVP? Which quote was best? Can Jessica count? Find your answers here!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Jessica and Kritter have finished and share their final thoughts about The Fellowship of the Ring in a YouTube livestream wrap party. Who won MVP? Which quote was best? Can Jessica count? Find your answers here!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
I can say podcast, where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and work. They were their way through it a few chapters at a time. I'm your host, critter, and I'm your host, jess, and we finished the Fellowship of the Ring like a week or two ago, and it is very exciting for both of us and we're going to talk about it today in this special live recording of a I don't know. I don't know what you would call this like a special episode, not a regular season episode. It's an exciting episode, I don't know. Bonus oh my gosh, bonus is the actual word for that the special bonus episode where we talk about the entire book and our experience reading it. I want to say thank you to everyone who's here in the chat. I want to say thank you to everyone who listens to this after the fact or watches it on YouTube, and I also want to say what's up, jessica.
Speaker 2:What's up, critter? How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm good. I'm good, I'm just chilling. This is, you know, we don't always go live, so it's always fun to go live. This is our second live stream and I'm excited about it. So, overall, let's just dive right in. Let's dive right in, if you could. I didn't ask her this ahead of time. She's not prepared. If you could describe the Fellowship of the Ring in three words or less, how would you describe it? Wow?
Speaker 2:you're right, you didn't prep me at all. I'm sorry, I don't even know how I'm going to say it. I'm thinking to it while you're thinking. Yes. So I guess three words or less. Three words or less? I can do it in four, do it four. I love that. Sort out the ring Sort out the ring.
Speaker 1:Okay, we are getting on a path. Yes, we're figuring out what we're doing with the Fellowship of the Ring. Yes, we're figuring out what we're doing with the Ring, the silly ring that we found in the Hobbit in the last book that we read, season One. Okay, sort out the ring. I think I'm going to go with just like one word, but three of them. You know what I mean. Okay, I'm just completely off the cuff here. I literally didn't even think of that question until I said it. Okay, so I'm going to go with quaint quest and Samwise, he's my guy, he's my guy, he's my guy. Ooh, light-blinded, full of fantastic storytelling. I love that random new ring. Who dis that would be for the Hobbit, but I love what you're where your mind's at. Yeah, so way to avoid the questions, says Brother Zachariah. I don't think she was avoiding.
Speaker 2:I think she was just surprised I was buying time. There was a lot of empty silence there and I was like what am I going to do? It's okay, I think that with your quaint and quest there should be cozy, but it's not as cozy as the Hobbit.
Speaker 1:It's not. The Hobbit definitely has far cozier vibes, and that is something that we were wondering while we were reading the Hobbit. If you recall, when we got to Rivendell, it was a everyone seems so jolly and merry and happy go lucky. And this is not the vibe that I remember, because most of like all of your experience and my most recent experience, like in the 20 years worth, was in the movies. So it was like Elrond is a very stoic dude. You know what I mean. So, like, why are they so happy in the Hobbit and I believe it was Don Marshall said well, I mean, the state of the world is different here. That's had lots of time had passed and lots of things have grown darker and more dire, and so I think that really came through in fellowship right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, obviously I hadn't thought of it in that context, in that real world context, until Don had said it. But yes, like the state of the world is that much further, that much worse off, as it were? You know 50 years later, things have gotten darker and more dire, but leave it to our guest to point out that there is an in world reason for it. All I know is that, as somebody who was consuming the story, the voice was drastically different. It was nowhere near as lighthearted and it was noticeably different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, we've got Aldor in the chat. Quaint Quest queso. I mean, yeah, bilbo's house, I'm sure he served up some queso every now and then. You know, aldor, that's a good question. Were we talking about Middle Earth or just Earth, porcain? No low dose yes.
Speaker 2:The answer is yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, yes, probably. Oh my gosh, so true, you know, times are getting dark when the Sackville Baggins is step foot in Bag End and actually take over Bag End. What that is something I had forgotten happened because you know as, like a 11 year old, I didn't really keep track of deeds of trust and what you know didn't care.
Speaker 2:You didn't care who owned Bag End. I didn't, I didn't.
Speaker 1:And now I'm like, how dare they? That's just, it hurts a lot, yeah, okay, so we've got the three words, slash four words to describe. You know? What else do you want to talk about with the Fellowship of the Ring or how it compares to the Hobbit?
Speaker 2:I think that the biggest comparison for me was the change in tone, not just in the subject matter, right, but also even the voice of the narrator. We had commented on it in one of our episodes, but I think that was probably, you know, the biggest noticeable difference for me is it's not just a change in tone for the authorship of the story. The narrator themselves had a change in tone. There was no lighthearted While I'm here to tell you you know, that's not how that goes, you know.
Speaker 2:it's none of that. That has completely changed. So it almost felt like two voices changed right, Like the tone of the book itself and the tone of the narrator itself was notably, notably different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we pointed out in one of the episodes that the narrator went from being like oh, I've got this little joke that you're not in on in the Hobbit to being like I just want you to know that this really cool thing that's happening right now it never happens again. Just like, why do you have to tell us that? Could you just let us love that we're in Lothlorean right now, or Rivendell or whatever? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's definitely tangible. It's definitely tangible. I know that when we started the Hobbit, I at first had a little trouble getting used to having a narrator along for the ride. They inserted themselves quite a bit and to the point where they, you know, added color, commentary and had opinions, and not just the omniscient or omnipresent narrator. Right, but has opinions and is going to share them, yeah. And now the narrator in this book, for example, makes a comment about and he will never see it again during his living days, and we're like rip, I guess.
Speaker 2:Way to keep it lighthearted and fun.
Speaker 1:Right, right, a little upsetting in my opinion, but you know what it made sense with the whole overall tone of the book.
Speaker 1:So we don't have to like go chapter by chapter here, but I do think it might be worth talking about like the highlights and the lowlights of the book. For us, now that we've taken it all in and if I'm going like in order, I would say I was very much ready to start the story and so the prologue for me was kind of like a okay, like let's go. The part of the prologue that I like the most and this might have been the forward actually but the part that talked about Tolkien, I liked you know a lot. But then the part that was talking about you know, the history of the Hobbits and stuff, I was like, okay, I'm going to like get behind this. I have read the Silmarillion, I can read this. But I was like I'm read also like bring me Sam and Frodo and Bilbo and let's get moving on this quest. So how did you experience the prologue? Was it a similar vibe for you?
Speaker 2:I think that I was just kind of a blank slate and I highlighted so much of the forward. So I just highlighted so much because I'm like everything seems so relevant. So I think that I just went in in a very typical fashion for me, which is, you know, incredibly gung-ho, right out of the gate. For better or for worse, that's just kind of how I am as a person. And so I went into it wanting whatever it could give me, knowing full well that not everything was going to stick right. So I'm going to do my best, I'm going to take highlights, I'm going to hope some of that stuck long enough for it to make sense later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I remember. And then nothing else. I have my highlights. The Tolkien background I knew a little bit of it, so I had watched the Tolkien movie that came out, but that was before we had planned this project together, so since then I've tried not to learn anything further about him or his works. Yeah, so some of the information that was shared was really interesting, but some of it I had heard before, so it was almost like I'm a little bit of the flip side of you.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I didn't know a ton about his biography because we read the prologue before I did my author tea for Tolkien on TikTok, so I hadn't done all the research just yet. Okay, so this is a really great question actually, from the chat. Farmsstrider asks what were the biggest surprises Jessica found in regards to the changes from her movie experience to the book.
Speaker 2:Farmsstrider going to make you work for my supper? It is a good question. I think that some of the biggest changes are still relatively small. They are things like they weren't being chased. You know what I mean. Like they were being chased, but it wasn't as eminent as it was portrayed in those movies.
Speaker 1:Like when they were getting out of the Shire.
Speaker 2:Like they were like actively fleeing, yeah, and you know Fredagar standing in for him. I thought was an incredible thing the fact that they had 50 years between Bilbo's story and Frodo's story. I think that was one of the biggest surprises for me and it hit me at a couple of different spots, especially in book one. So I feel like those were huge things for me to kind of adapt to. In specifically book one I'm trying to buy time to think about if there's stuff in book two side that really, I mean obviously Tom Bombadil I finally get to know who Tom Bombadil and Colbert are, as much as any of us knows.
Speaker 1:Big mystery there.
Speaker 2:Frodo's all. And then, yeah, so Arwen is great question for us writer and honestly that even as light as the female representation is in the movies, it's still far outstrips at least the fellowship. So that was definitely a big surprise. It shouldn't have been right.
Speaker 1:But yeah, well, now you know, though you know it's one of those things that if you were around for the discourse trademark back whenever the movie first came out and there were a bunch of book cloaks angry about how Gauravindel was shafted in favor of Arwen, those like whole five minutes that she got to be in the movie and saying things.
Speaker 1:Now you know that, like well you can weigh in on whether that was a worthy. A worthy swap, and we did, I think, talked about it in the episode, but you did think it was a pretty worthy swap.
Speaker 2:Yes absolutely I did, and even at the same time. So like Galadriel's representation, when she is on the page and being an active participant. You know, the narrator Tolkien, however you frame it in your mind gives her full props, like the White Council happens at her behest, like she's clearly a driving force and a leader, both with her people and as part of the White Council. You know so it doesn't feel as though Tolkien himself shied away from writing strong female characters. It's just that it didn't happen.
Speaker 2:And the fact that we didn't really even meet Arwen. We saw her in passing in another room and just waved on the way by.
Speaker 1:Yeah and then later found out that she was Galadriel's granddaughter because of a gift that she gave Eric Cool.
Speaker 1:I think that's the one thing holding these books back from being my faves of all time probably is just like it just hurts my heart that there aren't more amazing women, like there are amazing men and I'm not blaming Tolkien for that, like he was a product of his time, he was a product of his circumstance, like I know that you know he was surrounded by men in education, like in academia and in the war, and so, like his experience with women was like the wife that he idolized and that I think we see in like, well, a character in the still Meridian, but also I think we get reflections of her and like all the characters right, because they're on this pedestal, they're the most beautiful thing you've ever seen, they're well spoken, everyone idolizes them, all of that stuff.
Speaker 1:It's like, yeah, I imagine that that's how he saw women and the fact that he was able, even during his time and having been surrounded by men for his entire life and a Catholic no less like as a Catholic you know, catholics are very much like men are in charge, listen to the men, whatever he still was able to like, make a character, like, like a lot about who he was as a person.
Speaker 2:I think it means that he could at least conceptualize of it, right?
Speaker 1:so yeah, that's something it is indeed something it is a thin thread.
Speaker 2:I held on to leaving those chapters, but there were lots of other really fun surprises, right like there was. You know Sam is a master spy and, yes, you know farmer maggot is is a big person and a legend respect by Tom apparently yeah, we had some other fun surprises to. They weren't all bad surprises yeah, not at all.
Speaker 1:No, I think so. Like a lot of the stuff I had completely forgotten was kind of delightful in many ways, and you know what? This things that I had forgotten speaking of, I forgot how much distance they traveled on the water, and so I am dreading that coming up in my fantasy hike.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so is that still on foot For me? I not, I don't. I'm like I don't know what's a triathlon. I don't know what you signed up for.
Speaker 1:I wish I could count time on boats. You can swim it like all of them.
Speaker 1:I can swim it like all of them, honestly, like I love float trips, like I can just go on a float trip this summer, but anyway. So yeah, I've talked about this in some other episodes, but I'm doing the fantasy hike app, which is comparing me with Mr under hill as he walks to Mount fire or something like that, and he's currently resting in Riverdale still, thank God, and I'm just trying to catch up. I'm still 250 miles behind him, but soon after he leaves Riverdale, as we know, they get into a bunch of boats and right in a river.
Speaker 2:For really, 10 freaking days yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm like really long time.
Speaker 1:I'm so I'm screwed. Basically I'm not. I'm not going to beat Mr under hill, but at least I can follow his journey. It is yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, random, no man, unfortunately telling all my secrets, but he is not wrong, I will be your best cheerleader.
Speaker 1:Thanks, I'm trying to one more I am trying to go on more walks, but you know for my health, but also a lot of miles. A lot of miles. So anyways, yeah, outdoor just me and a rubber ring on a lazy river just circling.
Speaker 2:I wish Support crew. We will be there for you.
Speaker 1:Thank you. One of these days I'm going to sign up for a marathon. I'm not never going to do that, but you know, just so I can catch up. I absolutely not. That's not. I don't like running, but I do like walking and hiking, so that it was a huge aside. So we talk. We talked about the prologue, we talked about surprises between the movies and the book. I am wondering do you have any favorite parts, just generally, from the books?
Speaker 1:Or the singular book? I guess. No, there were two books, book one and two Two.
Speaker 2:So I think I think my favorite vibe was having dawn on. Not to knock our other guests, but Leia and Kat were far less chaotic and dawn just really made it an hour and a half of chaos in the most lovely, fun way. Like so many tangents guys, we had so much fun with that. So in the in the scheme of fun moment, I would say, having dawn on was a real highlight. Again, guests in general was a huge highlight. So Leia kicked us off, you know. She kicked that door down and and marched right in with authority, love.
Speaker 2:So, I think that's where Kat came in and I know you guys didn't get to see a lot of it, unfortunately, because we had so much technical issues both during and after, but Kat was a really fantastic guest and would love to have her back sometime. So I love the fact that we elevated it right like I love the fact that we took on guests this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm the season, I'm the start, this the beginning of the year, so yeah, you did it 2024.
Speaker 2:A lot of my favorite moments are silly things like open in the name of Mordor and, you know, gandalf throwing shade at Mary and Pippin and kind of little moments like that that I just had so much fun with going through with you. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Sam keeping track of Bill. Oh, that was so cute.
Speaker 2:I was thinking Frodo having to like deal out Bilbo snarky, like bequeathments yes, oh my God, yes. And also the sackville Baggins, like just the mock rage I felt, for the sackville Baggins is taking over, yeah, bag. And. And the shade that Bilbo threw at Frodo for letting it go down on his birthday, no less, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, aldor said, marianne Pippin already knowing about the ring favorite moment I'm a sucker for a moment in any franchise where I love the characters and they all like get together for a little pow, wow, where they're like being themselves. You know, it's not like the Council of Elrond was really cool and fun, but it was very business, business oriented. We're going to talk about this thing that we need to talk about, whereas in not brief in oh my gosh, where Mary lives in Randy Buck, that's, that's his Buckland. Randy Buck is this. Yeah, that's why I couldn't figure it out, because I was like, what is it called? In Buckland? They, they had their little like dinner time, they had their baths and then they were just like joshing each other about how Sam was spying on Frodo and that they all knew about the ring and it was all just like this. It reminds me of the the Avengers Shouarma scene, or like, or like at the party before they get attacked and they're all just like chilling and drinking and flirting with each other. I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2:So it was. I love that because of how intimate it felt right. So, to your point, council of Elrond felt very significant capital S, whereas that moment was very like we were eavesdropping ourselves right like a bunch of friends and we are Dropping eaves. So that was, that was very well done. Yeah, I just, those were such great moments, the little moments.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I will say the one big moment that really stands out for me was Gandalf and the Bellrog. I because we're so we were so used to Gandalf being this like funny, snarky, mysterious, you know wizard figure who was in and out doing his own thing. We didn't really get to witness him pop off, as the kids say, during the Hobbit or even during the beginning of fellowship. And then when he had his conversation with the Bellrog, I was just like this guy gets it, this is a level 20 wizard at work and we're finally seeing it.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, and so I got the chills.
Speaker 1:I got the, I got the hype, like I was holding the signs whistling. It was a good, it was an excellent moment and I don't usually care about battles and it was so well written and the way he was like egging it on and like screaming at it and you know, invoking or invoking his names, like I love that part, I, I, yeah, I, I. It might. I don't want to say it. I might say that in the book it was better than it was in the movie, even though in the movie it's an iconic scene Like you shall not pass in, so it's close, but like the fact that it's close is wild because the movie scene is so good.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and there's so many great moments from that particular stretch of the book that you can tell they were going as close as possible, they were cutting as close to the edges they could in terms of trying to one to one recreate that vibe. Yeah, without a doubt. Without a doubt, I had something else and then I lost it. It's gone, that's okay.
Speaker 1:That's okay. Um, I'm trying to think if there were any other like major, major highlights. Uh, sam's like realization at the end. Like Sam at the end, I guess. For me it's like he's like why are we talking about? Why are we talking about? Meanest truth? That, like that, means nothing. We, kroda's clearly not thinking about going to meanest earth. Why are you all talking? Like he's thinking about what to do next and he doesn't want to take us with him because he feels bad. He's reading him like a book and then he's the one that figures out where he's going and almost drowns himself in order to go with him. It's just, it's heartbreaking and beautiful and I just love Sam so much. Most of the stuff that Sam did throughout the book was highlighted for me because it was just so awesome.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and I I liked seeing those relationships fleshed out more. I think I said that more in the first half because I feel like that's where we spent a lot of that time. But definitely I didn't infer all of that from the movies, right, like the closeness between Mary Pippin, sam and Frodo, I don't know, I kind of just assumed that they are all people who lived in a small village and that we're relatively close in age and kind of not necessarily guilt by association, right. But like, oh yeah, no, I know Sandra, we grew up together. She lives three doors down. That doesn't mean you hang out, yeah, right, like it doesn't mean that you're tight, it just means that you're of a certain age and you, you know, your, your boundaries touch, and so there's so much more for that on the page and I really loved having that because I made it that much more believable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I loved getting that Mary and Pippin just like happening to be on Farmer Bag, it's like farm or whatever, and like running into them Just by happenstance. It's, so it doesn't give enough. Well, first of all, the Farmer Maggot shade is wild, but then also it doesn't give enough credit to Mary and Pippin who, like, planned to help Frodo all along. You know, this was just like, oh, by circumstance, we accidentally ran into you. So yeah, we'll come along, so yeah.
Speaker 2:And realistically, like it's not a lot of text right, Like it's just these little snippets of moments. And I think it's Pippin who has a relationship. No, I think it's Mary that has a relationship with Farmer Maggot and he's like no, he'd be fine if we just walked down the path. You know he won't care at all. Just different things like that that really let those characters be more fleshed out. For me here it really didn't take a lot, yeah, but it really did make a difference.
Speaker 1:It did. It did a lot. You know, what we haven't talked about at all is Aragorn. I can't would. The introduction of Strider was a delightful one. I feel like the movies cut really close to the books in that regard as well. You know, frodo getting his like accidentally revealing the ring, or at least him going invisible, and Strider scolding them. I do think Strider was different We've talked about this but different in the book than he was in the movie, a little more well, less serious, a little more personable. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel like my memory of the movies is he was portrayed a little bit more grim a little bit more dour and almost sad Right. And I don't know that. I necessarily got that. You know he's got, he's got this backstory that is troubling, yeah, and lots and lots and lots of skills. But he very much wants to be part of this group and help and you know almost petitions to get to go on this trek with them. He's pretty wild and not as, not as stoic as it's portrayed, I feel, in the first movie.
Speaker 1:No, and I don't think the movie gives him as much credit for like all the work that he's been doing in the background, like helping.
Speaker 2:Gandalf find.
Speaker 1:Gollum, like protecting the borders of the Shire, he's been doing all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2:There's all these Rangers that are, you know, rolling the borders of the Shire. That's wild.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I had totally one other thing that I had forgotten, because my movie knowledge was way surpassed or absolutely surpassed my book knowledge.
Speaker 2:So I want to put you with the hot seat. Oh, bring it on. I love the hot seat. So, after your full reread, what's your favorite thing that came up while you were rereading that maybe you forgot from the first time, maybe due to age, or just how long it had been since you read. What's your favorite thing that popped up? Because I feel like there were a few times where you're like I totally forgot that even happened.
Speaker 1:My favorite thing that popped up. I think it has to be and I already mentioned this the beginning like the time jump, not that that was there, but like the fact that we got more established with the Hobbits and who they were as people and we got the delightful like silly Bilbo gift scene and all kinds of stuff that were it, just like set the, you know, like Bilbo leaving with dwarves. There were so many things that I think connected the book with the Hobbit that just I totally glossed over and was lost in the movie just for time. Right, they couldn't spend half the movie of the Fellowship of the Ring and the Shire. So I just I do think the characters of, especially of the Hobbits were much better or more thoroughly fleshed out in the book, which makes sense because there was more time to do it. So, yeah, aldor says if we can have a sitcom set in the Shire, I would pay for that same, I would crowdfund the heck out of that, I would be all for it. Yeah, so I think probably that.
Speaker 1:But I mean there were a lot of just like small tweaks and changes that I was just that I had forgotten, that were from the, that I was used to what happened in the movie, like the Council of Elrond, like everybody's backstories, that was really fascinating, you know. Granted, the plot wasn't advancing, so I was like, okay, I do enjoy whatever things are moving, but getting the you know what happened at Mount Doom after I hadn't even thought. Like we don't, the movies don't talk about the dwarves at all, right, except for Gimli, son of Glowen, right. And so that's the fact that we get to hear, like what Saruman's doing in the background and what Gandalf had been doing that whole time, and all of that stuff we're getting, just like all of the context which world building is just on fleek. A hundred people say that anymore. But yeah, so like the Council, the Council of Elrond was perfect for that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, the silent campaigning of Saruman slash the enemy, intriguing, slash, terrifying, yeah. And to know that those tactics are being used with a some degree of success at least, that was really interesting and crazy to hear there was so many different things like that, but to your point, they're all kind of little in the scheme of things. I think the thing that surprised me the most about this read I think I've already commented on it in a previous episode, though was how much more attached I was to the dwarves from the Hobbit and reliving that in the in the bowels of Moria. I was not prepared for how upset I was going to be, how attached I had gotten, yeah, so that was really kind of surprising. And also the balance of that is how elated I was to see Bilbo come back. Yeah, if only for a brief time, it was. It was lovely, and the Frodo Bilbo vibes were immaculate. The time, you know, even throw away comments like, with the time remaining, frodo spent as much time with Bilbo as possible, like love that.
Speaker 1:Come on, yeah, it's really sweet, honestly, because when you think about it, like the age difference, like all of that, it's like such a nice relationship that they have like mentor, mentee, grandpa, grandson, great uncle, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, it's really sweet, I like it a lot. Yeah, I'm up the Hobbits really graded, like in the movies my favorite character is a Hobbit, so I guess it shouldn't be that surprising. But just generally, like the Marys and Pippins and Frodo's of the world and Bilbo's, I have grown to the perspective like them so much more after reading the books than from the movies. Granted, like they're all likable at the very least in the movies, like Pippin's, silly Marys, fun. You know Frodo is going through it, but in this like I do especially think that I like Frodo infinitely more after reading him than him in the movie, because in the movie it's truly like he has this burden and that is his primary personality for 99% of the movies where you get a lot more from him, I think in the books personally, yeah, I loved.
Speaker 2:I was concerned when we first started that Bilbo would just feel like a photocopy of Bilbo in some way. Frodo.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm sorry that Frodo would feel like, you know, a poor man's version of Bilbo in whatever way, and I definitely didn't feel that way. By the end I felt as though he had his own journey. He had his own experiences, he had his own challenges. So I was happy. I didn't want him to be a carbon copy.
Speaker 1:So I guess, speaking of Frodo and Sam and characters that we love, now might be a good time to go over season slash episode MVPs, Everyone. That sounds like a good time. I feel like it sounds like a good time, so I'm going to share with you all. Well, no, no, no, we're gonna up the suspense, we're gonna. We're not gonna show you everything right away. I am wondering people in the chat if you had to guess, if you didn't personally tally everything up just on vibes alone, who do you think were the top three? That's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, MVPs like top three. Let us know. And we'll talk a little bit more about the characters. Yeah, because I, as I mentioned in the episode nine stream I just talked about how much more I like Frodo in the books than I do in the movies. Our boy didn't get as much love in the MVP votes, and we'll talk about what. Look how the extent of the lack of love was so depressing. So I wouldn't pick Frodo if I were you. Spoilers for that. There you go. There's the first one's free. First one's free. Don't pick Frodo, Because even though we had some real nice moments, he didn't win an MVP almost at all.
Speaker 1:Okay, the votes are coming in. We've got oh no, Aldoris is Bill Bowen. Aragorn make songs together. Love that, All right. So yeah, we've got. Okay, we've got light-blinded fool Sam, Gandolf, Aragorn. Love that. Aldoris, Sam and Gandolf are top three for sure. Third one is harder, Sam.
Speaker 2:Gandolf Aragorn. I see a couple of them.
Speaker 1:Sam Gandolf Aragorn. Wow, okay, it's, it's looking, it feels like a trend. It feels like a trend. What if I said a lot of that was right, but one of them is not right? And you have to think also, just like let me preface all of this and we'll use this as our lead into who got third, third place, but you have to think about the fact that here we go Aldoris. Sam Gandolf Pippin, mark. An interesting thought, mary, all right, so now you're just throwing.
Speaker 1:Hobbits out, you're just throwing names out there and you got the wrong Hobbit. First of all because the actual answer for who got third is Bilbo, and I was going to say you have to think about the fact that Aragorn wasn't introduced for a good long time in the books and, to be fair, like Bilbo obviously was there at the beginning and their site kind of in the middle, but he did get three votes to be third. Two of those votes came. No, all three votes came from episode six, so that would have been the Council of Elrond. So I think that's kind of amazing.
Speaker 2:He really he really slays, he really shown in those chapters, though you know he wrote those songs he first off. He came blasted onto the scene. The songwriting was incredible, the healthy bonding with Frodo, just all of that was really if you walk away from how much exposition was in there right. The most entertaining part of those chapters were Bilbo and, yes, lipe-linded Fool exactly Bilbo volunteering without hesitation to take the ring to Mordor.
Speaker 1:That's what sold me Like that's solidified it.
Speaker 2:I think that was what I said in the episode, like, if nothing else, he's old enough to know better, he's face danger, he knows what he's saying and he's still, without hesitation, stood up and volunteered.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm looking now at the list and okay, no, there was, there was one. No, yes, one other unanimous episode, and that episode was Aragorn. And so Aragorn tied with a lot of people for fourth place, excuse me, he, he got two votes, all of the votes in season two, episode five, which I believe was between Brie and Rivendell, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2:Yes, it would have been the end of book one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So those are the votes that Aragorn the brightest for sure.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Because it was right they were headed to the Ford Right and I had said that he got my vote because he, you know they never would have made it that far for Glorifendell to save him. Exactly, if it wasn't for all the skill that he, that Aragorn, had exerted along the way. Weathertop Aragorn that's a perfect way to put it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So I think that's a great side with this is like a huge list that got. These people got two votes a piece Tom Bombadil, galadriel and Mary and I know Mary got major props, like in different moments actually, so like Mary got a vote in season two, episode three, so I believe that was when they were in Buckland, if I'm not mistaken. And then where is his other vote?
Speaker 1:Is Mary in the lead In episode one, for oh there, he's right first In one for being such a good friend, for being such a bro, right Cause he like hung with Frodo while he was going through all of that stuff. Yeah, so that's totally fair. Galadriel, I mean, we get it, she's a queen.
Speaker 2:We love her, jessica gave it for her two episodes in a row, I was like oh, that was me Okay.
Speaker 1:I'm not taking it back.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, one of them was for the gifts, the other one was for the, the just being a general fatality and general badassery. Yeah, it totally makes sense. Um, let's see, tom B got two votes in two separate episodes as well, first when he saved them from weeping willow or whatever old man willow, and the next one when he saved them from the barrow town. So it makes sense. Um, all right. So, and then let's see, we said, yeah, so those the ones, uh, the bottom two tied were Pippin and goldberry. They each got one vote a piece, um, and then the top two. They were not tied, though For a while we thought they were, because Gandalf and Galadriel.
Speaker 1:Gandalf and Galadriel's names look really similar on a spreadsheet, turns out. So we'll uh, um, I'm just going to show, I'm going to share the screen. So drum roll, please, let me. Let me just do this, cause I yeah, this is nobody panic, I think this one is a hold on. Oh my gosh, now I'm nervous. This is it Share. Okay, this is it. Um. Sam got first place with five votes. I hope you guys can see. If you can't see it very well, let me know in the chat. Um and Gandalf got four votes. It was very close, very close. What I love about Gandalf is that he um is all over the board, right, the first episode, the second episode and the second last episode. So, obviously, like I gave it to him for the Balrog fight and everybody else was giving it to him for the exposition at the beginning, like having Bilbo keep the ring back, like all of that makes a lot of sense. And then Sam, because, basically, because I love him, um, well, actually, no, we both voted for him twice. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, um Sam Sam earned it.
Speaker 1:Sam earned it and uh who voted for him?
Speaker 2:Who? That would have been Kat, no.
Speaker 1:No, I'm now. I'm confused. Why are there three votes?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Now I'm second guessing myself.
Speaker 1:Wait, maybe you switched episodes seven and episode eight no, cause we only had three guests, right? Or am I crazy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I had given a Pippin vote. I had put in Don Marshall's vote for Pippin on episode seven. Oh, so there should be four guest values One, two, three, four. So Bilbo was Don's vote for six, but really really who he wanted to vote for was Pippin.
Speaker 1:Right, but that's because of Pippin in the next. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, yes, and then Sam was Kat's vote.
Speaker 1:No, pippin was Kat's vote. My gosh, is it Sam and Gandalf? Sam and Gandalf, tide.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, you guys. I can't believe we're doing this live.
Speaker 1:It's okay. No, I just I want to make sure we got it right and I think, because I should have been up there, bill should have been up there. Justice for Bill. I'm pretty sure Kat's vote was Pippin. Don's bonus vote for the next episode was Pippin and yeah, so that means that means that means. I'm terrible at keeping track.
Speaker 1:It's okay, I love. I love that there was some drama, so an Oscar moment. We had an Oscar moment right here, like a moonlight versus what's it called that love is blind La La Land, yeah, so I guess. Lol. Jk, sam and Gandalf Tide for first, which I think makes sense, because Gandalf really slayed in this in this book.
Speaker 2:Just can't be fired from spreadsheet. Leah, don't say that Everything is on a spreadsheet right now. Literally everything Like buying a house, throwing a wedding, moving all of it is on spreadsheets.
Speaker 1:She's not fired, it's not her fault. We literally had, like we had to retcon Kat's vote into something the fact that Don picked an extra one, like the chaos was real. So we're not blaming Jessica, we're blaming chaos. And yeah and yeah, honestly like who doesn't love drama, a little miscount. I think that's super fun.
Speaker 2:And I'm okay with co-MVPs Sam.
Speaker 1:V.
Speaker 2:Gandalf, I'm okay, they were both. I mean, I don't know how everybody in chat feels, but they were both really important in my read.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, light-blinded, full of Gandalf, I find it bow-wrong. And that little twerp gets first place, turns out. No, turns out we tie, because Lord of the Rings values strong, intimate male relationships Just as much as it values awesome fight scenes. Okay, I think we can all. At least I do, at least I love that.
Speaker 2:Can we take my shame off the screen now?
Speaker 1:Oh sure, we're ending the screen share. Oh my gosh, so true, so true. Light-blinded fools warning you not to copy and paste into the wrong spreadsheets because it's Sackville.
Speaker 2:You don't want to give Sackville back. I would never invite the Sackville back into my wedding. I would never.
Speaker 1:You know sometimes a little drama at a wedding is fun, just like a smidge, just a tiny amount of drama stuff.
Speaker 2:I give enough of that from my biological contributions. So I'm fine, I like we've got drama covered.
Speaker 1:Biological contributions. That's what we're calling family. I love it. Okay, I'm a big fan of that. All right, so we have, we did the MVP and I hope everyone's satisfied. It seems like yes, they were, because everybody was guessing Gandalf and Sam. So here we are with Gandalf and Sam. Oh my gosh, I'm just now realizing that I can show comments on stream if I hover over them. So that's a fun thing to be learning this far into the stream.
Speaker 2:You guys, we are technical masters.
Speaker 1:It's insane.
Speaker 2:We are nailing all of this.
Speaker 1:I'm using an entirely different streaming platform than I usually do for Wheel and Chill, so it's like a whole different. It's a whole different vibe Okay.
Speaker 1:Honestly it is, but we also have the episode to see. If she picked Sam, she didn't. No, you mean Kat, no, she picked Pippin, and you have to take my word for it, because the audio of that is gone and so it's in the episode, but it's me telling you. So she did. She did pick Pippin, right. I'm almost certain You're making me question myself. It's fine, it's fine. So while you're answering that, we should talk about our outros. I think Now's a good time. Yeah, no time like the present. So let me share that screen really quickly. Yeah, everybody's everybody is in lifeline at full as agreeing, and I'm going to take it because that's what I think too. Boom, okay, we are sharing. These are our episode outros. Jessica, do you want to read them or do you want people to just look at them?
Speaker 2:Do you want to alternate? I'll? I'll start with episode one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds great Okay.
Speaker 2:Here you go, you guys Hold on.
Speaker 1:Aldor says Kat picked Samwise Gamgee. There's no way Hold on, did I?
Speaker 2:say that wrong. I think you put it into the voiceover. So it is. It is captured somewhere.
Speaker 1:Let me look at my DMs. You go ahead and read the first one. I'm going to confirm in my DMs, because now I'm really shook.
Speaker 2:All right. 56 minutes into the episode, your voiceover says Sam, okay, I'm going to read.
Speaker 1:That's on me then, because I know it was Pippin. Go ahead, jessica.
Speaker 2:It's all good. So for episode one, we went with a sign off that said Goodbye, dear listeners, until our next meeting.
Speaker 1:Episode two. Though it may be dangerous business going out your door, we're glad you're with us for this journey.
Speaker 2:For episode three we went with farewell. We call to hearth and hall. The wind may blow and rain may fall. We must away until next Tuesday.
Speaker 1:Proud of that one. Episode four keep to the green grass. Don't you go on meddling with old stone or cold whites or prying in their houses, unless you be strong folk with hearts that never falter.
Speaker 2:For episode five. We love our listeners, like Baron loves Luthien.
Speaker 1:Episode six. May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years.
Speaker 2:Episode seven may the stars shine upon your faces until we see you next week.
Speaker 1:Episode eight. But go now with good hearts. Farewell, and may the blessings of elves and men and all free folk go with you.
Speaker 2:And for episode nine, we closed it out with a stellar critter impersonation of Galadriel saying Let not your heart be sad though night must follow noon, and already our evening drawth nigh.
Speaker 1:So don't feel like you have to type out the entire thing, because the episode numbers are right there. But if you have a favorite, let us know and we can crown one as the crowning achievement after the episode outro of season two officially oh my gosh, 2, 30 AM. Aldora, you're a real one for rock star. So Lea asked how do y'all come up with these? They're always so wonderful. So, Jessica, what's your method?
Speaker 2:Typically I'll try to see if there is something in the read for the episode and I have really lucked out. Every time critters been like hey, it's your turn and I'm like perfect. So you know all those ridiculous highlights I take. I try to go back through and see if any of them are a send off or a goodbye. And because we do so much journeying and questing, usually there's something there I can pick from.
Speaker 1:I have the exact same method and, honestly, usually I feel kind of bad about this. But because I'm the one that creates the outline, I am usually the one that will reach out to Jess to be like Okay, which, which episode do you want to pick the outro for? And I'll be like, if you don't mind, I'll do this one. And, like I at during the outline I'm like, oh, I found this quote that now I can take advantage of you guys.
Speaker 2:I am so abused as a co-host. I am treated so poorly. You have no idea.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh, and you know what? Just for everyone's peace of mind, I'm going to DM cat just to make sure that I remembered her pick, and we will tweet about it. So, and we'll post it in the discord, so we will know for sure, a hundred percent, if she voted Pippin or Sam. And if she voted for Sam, then Sam wins, which I think makes sense because I love them, and if she didn't, then they're tied, which I think also makes sense because Gandalf was amazing. So that is going to be our conflict resolution strategy. And so, yeah, if you're not following us on Twitter yet, but Dragon's pod, only one T, okay, so we've got some votes in here.
Speaker 1:Benjamin says episode nine yeah, that one's beautiful. Little Galadriel, I believe. Episode eight I love that one too. I think that one's a lovely, just overall fantasy vibe. Outro, episode two I think that one is really nice. El Dora, that one I really liked. The, though it may be a dangerous business going out your door, that's always like hit me in the feels, like that little sentiment from I feel like that was a Frodo quote.
Speaker 2:No, that was a Gandalf quote.
Speaker 1:I thought it was Frodo quoting Bilbo, but I trust your notes more than my memory.
Speaker 2:I'll be able to tell you in a second now that it's important. Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Gandalf's going to secretly set it up, so it's a tie. That sounds about right to me. Most heartwarming episode five. We love our listeners like Baron, love Lucy, I agree the best birthday present ever is six. Yeah, excellent beer. That one, I think, is funny, like it's one of the funnier ones. Okay, episode four.
Speaker 2:Episode four was Tom Bombadil.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it was Okay. So are there any duplicates? I feel like you know what I think, though. Okay, layla's episode eight, wait nine, got multiples.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know if El Dora was saying that episode nine is their choice. They quoted episode nine but then below it said episode two is simpler, but I really like the vibe.
Speaker 1:Oh, I see. I'm choosing to assume that El Dora is just commenting on how late it is for them.
Speaker 2:But Absolutely fine.
Speaker 1:Episode eight has two and I do really like episode eight.
Speaker 2:I do too.
Speaker 1:I do have a soft spot for nine, because it's Galadriel. Okay, nine and eight. Basically, what we're saying is we got better as time went on. Yes, yeah, I love that for us. Oh, but El Dora is an official pick, us too. So it's eight. But now go with. But go now with good hearts, farewell, and may the blessings of elves and men and all free folk could go with you. I think that's a good one that could work for like any season. You know what I mean Like, which I think maybe is why people like it. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:So right here, while we've got, you know, the folks who hang out with us the most on stream, what do we think our plan should be for season three? Do we want to keep doing this we workshop at every episode. Or do we want to try and pick from the last two seasons and see if, if the group wants to help us pick, or if we have a winner between the two groups, or keep workshopping? What do you think, critter?
Speaker 1:I like the workshop. So I was just going to say, like I know, in our mind we were talking about, like how a lot of things have outros that people know them by or whatever, and part of me thinks that after two seasons we have an intro that we do every time, which is so like people know what we sound like at the beginning and I think like our thing kind of has become workshopping out.
Speaker 2:I was doing them different every time and yeah it looks like a lot of votes for workshopping in the chat, so yeah, I'm kind of doing it yeah.
Speaker 1:I love flexing my creative muscles, even though sometimes they're like very weak, and then I have to lean on Jessica.
Speaker 2:But I think we lean into each other. I feel like I feel like we make a good team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. I agree, we like pick up where the other is slacking. If not that you ever slack, you pick up when I'm slacking and it feels great. So we're a team. So, oh, I'll door. I love that often. Look for good outro quotes as I'm reading. Do we ever line up with what you've identified? Is it ever like oh, I know that that's what they're going to pick?
Speaker 2:And also if you have picks, you're welcome to share with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because sometimes we're like oof, Scramble me 30 minutes before recording time. What's my outro? It's my time, so something to think about. You know, we love feedback and we do, we generally.
Speaker 2:We like feedback as well. That's definitely. We've lined up a few times Awesome.
Speaker 1:Nice, yeah, I was a. I really, even though I don't think episode three got any votes, which is fine, I was really proud of that one because it rhymed. We lost away until next Tuesday. I was just like this one. Now this one appeals to. That would appeal to Bilbo, I think.
Speaker 2:And you're responsible for. We love our listeners like Baron loves Luthien. That was also your brainchild. It was it was.
Speaker 1:That's true. Yes, because it's true. Yeah, and you know, I just absolutely didn't get any votes either, but that one, I was scrambling, but then it was like that's what Gandalf says after Bilbo leaves, I think, and I was like that is such a sweet, like I love that, I don't know. It just like made my heart kind of like twinge a little bit. So I think that one's really good to. I'm proud of all of them. Frankly, I think we did a great job with our outros. Yeah, yeah, okay. So it's been about an hour, which is our normal episode run time. I know, isn't that crazy Already, an hour wild. So before we leave, is there anything that we haven't talked about from the book? Anybody in the chat, any questions you have for us? Or Jessica as a first time reader, or me as someone who read them a thousand years ago and remembers basically what's in the movies? No, let us know before we start off. But yeah, jessica, do you have anything else that you want to hit on before we call it?
Speaker 2:I'm really glad that I read it. I look forward to when we dive into the two towers. I'm really glad that I read it because I think that there's a lot of context there that is potentially hinted at or was kept, as this is the last time they will ever go there ever. There's a lot of stuff that I'm sure is hinted at and is used to subtext and I can't wait to cash all of those when I do the watch. But I feel like I understand these characters so much more thoroughly than I ever had a hope in getting from just the movies. So I'm excited. I had been told I think I shared in a previous episode or maybe it's season one One rap that I have been told that Lord of the Rings is a tougher read. I didn't necessarily find it, so far at least, to be tougher, but definitely a more somber tone, a more serious tone, and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes. Okay.
Speaker 1:I feel like you just answered the question that Leia asked. I might have missed, but, Jess, it is intimidating, boring whatever other stereotypes you heard before reading.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so just to elaborate that on just a little bit, more is the wording and stuff. So there are definitely some moments, like when I have to look up words. It makes me feel a little silly sometimes because I think of myself as a relatively well read individual. But I just try to take it in stride now, tongue in cheek, and just laugh at myself and go. There was no way in hell I would have known what that word is. Just move on and get over it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're learning.
Speaker 2:I find it is intimidating, as some people might, but I can see why it would be intimidating. It's not to minimize anybody else's experience, because I've read. I'm somebody that reads Beowulf and has done Shakespeare and stuff not to say that I'm awesome, but those things don't throw me off. I still have to spend a lot of time to comprehend that stuff but it doesn't scare me off like other things. And that way I did not find Tolkien's writing style intimidating, but I can see why it would be off-putting for some. The writing style is 75, 80 years old. That's not for everybody. It is not contemporary in that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I guess I as a kid somehow missed it. I didn't notice it because I, again, was just thirsting for the story and the story was enough to keep me invested. But now I was an English minor. I read early English literature and that stuff is. It was earlier than this, it was dry, it was really dry, and so this, compared to that, oh my gosh, it's a barn buster. We are having a great time, party, party, party. You know what I mean. So I think it depends on your experience with literature. My sister, for example, struggled to get through Harry Potter. She's not a reader. She tried and has not yet gotten through fellowship. I think she did get through the Hobbit, but the Hobbit is objectively a faster read in my opinion, and so it's just. You know like I get it, depending on what you're used to. It can be slower, it can be drier, but I think it's a worthy investment, even if it's tough. You know it's like Dune, in my opinion, another really dry one, but I think it's, at least the first book, a worthy investment.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, there was something else that I thought oh, oh, oh. Aldor, I believe at the beginning, at the beginning, like a little bit ago asked how we felt about the ending, because I do think the ending we talked about it a little bit in the Discord the ending compared to the movie is not as cinematic, let's put it that way. So do you have any thoughts on that, more than like what we hit on in the episode?
Speaker 2:Not necessarily more than I would just go back to it. Really, I liked it mostly because it clearly showed that it was Frodo's choice. They weren't being forced into it because they were being overrun by orcs. You know the struggle between him and Boromir very intense. We had a lot of discussion about that, yeah. But I think that I genuinely liked the ending because it showed Frodo being decisive. It showed Samwise being insightful and decisive. So, granted, not as cinematic right, it's a different medium. I'm not going to hold it to that standard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think somebody in the Discord mentioned that like this was meant to be one big book, right? So the things that the Fellowship of the Ring movie pulled from the beginning of book two and put in the end of movie one to like spice up the ending and give it like more gravitas, they were in Tolkien's mind. It was just going to go straight through, right. And so it's kind of like almost unfair to be like well, it could have been cooler, right, because it is that cool. You just have to keep reading, you have to just continue the story that he wanted to be all one story in the first place. I do think could they have like cut it in a different spot to make it more exciting? I mean, probably like I think the Fellowship of the Ring movie is dang near like the Lord of the Rings movies are my favorite movies of all time and I think the Fellowship of the Ring movie is a perfect movie. You know it's perfectly paced. I think the ending is so powerful. You know whenever I mean we've all seen the movie so spoilers for the beginning of Two Towers, the book, but Boromir's death is just like, is just like heart wrenching, and and since we didn't get that in book, in the in the Fellowship of the Ring, the book.
Speaker 1:Right now, we hate Boromir. We're like, oh my, or some of us, such a struggle? Yeah, it's a struggle. And so, like knowing what happens to him, I'm like, okay, like I will retroactively forgive you or whatever, like preemptively, I guess, forgive you because I know what you're going to do in the future. But at the same time, like at the end of this book, you were, I didn't like you at all, but not at all. And so, yeah, I'm, I'm. I absolutely see why you would say that the end of the book fizzles a bit, because it is not. If you're comparing it to the movie, which is a hard thing not to do, it is not as exciting.
Speaker 2:And I would say that it's very easy for me from a mental perspective to be like he meant this as one unit. Yeah, so I'm like I can just. I can just ease up on my expectations of that as a denouement, as a closure. You know what I mean, because I'm like in his mind this was a unit of measure, the entire work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm able to just go, meh, okay, it's a natural break. It may not be like full on closure, but it is a break.
Speaker 1:I am being harsh, yes, slightly to full. I am saying that I wish Boromir taught in the fellowship. I think he would be more sympathetic if he had, because right now we are not we, as in me, the royal we, we are not team Boromir at the moment. Okay, based on a lot of the stuff that we talked about in our final episode. So if it's harsh, so be it. And Aldora says that they need to see how the beginning of Two Towers is like in the books until they can form their full opinion of that makes it and that does make sense Because it's yeah, if you, if you continue reading and look at it, as this is the same book or whatever, it's probably I assume can't speak for everyone or anyone besides myself that it will feel more complete almost immediately.
Speaker 2:But ironically, I was going to say that. So you know we talk about. I think one of the last things that we wanted to touch on was Hobbit versus Fellowship. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know I'll, I'll plow right into that. You know, I really liked fellowship, but Hobbit still takes the lead for me right now and I'm curious to see if my relationship with fellowship changes as I get further into the series. Yeah, but that was something that we had discussed previously about. You know, I love, I loved the Hobbit. I really very much enjoyed the Hobbit, but I was able to enjoy it as as a serving. So I'm I'm not there with the fellowship right now currently. Yeah, no, I'd still pick Hobbit first, and I'm curious to see if that changes as we continue on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Despite me saying that the fellowship of the ring is the perfect movie, I agree with you. As far as the books go, I had more fun Not that I didn't have fun reading fellowship because I did, but I had more fun reading the Hobbit because it was funnier, like it had more humor. I liked the snarky narrator, Like I know that you were, you, you, uh, I don't know you.
Speaker 1:You butt heads with the snarky narrator a few times, like for the heavy hand just needed a little bit of an adjusted period, yeah, yeah, but like I, I like to think of myself as if I were an author, like that would be kind of my vibe, and so I just like really resonated with it. Um, and just the story was, you know, it's like it's a complete story and so I think maybe that's what you're getting at Like you can't really judge the fellowship because it's not a complete story yet. We're ongoing and so you're not going to feel the satisfaction it's like, for example, we always have. We haven't talked about the wheel of time yet and so we're both a big wheel of time fan.
Speaker 2:Can't get through an episode without any wheel of time.
Speaker 1:It's like saying, you know, picking one book, or like the eye of the world book, one from the wheel of time, and being like it's better than I don't know, insert a standalone book, like maybe some people would do that and I think you know it could be fair depending on the book, but it's like it's a tough sell to have just a partial story be like the end all be all book.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting because, like Don Marshall said, fellowship of the ring, I think, if I remember right and now my memory is in question because of that MVP, but it doesn't matter, I'm going to have to like, I'm going to have to put like an asterisk in the description of that on YouTube to really amend what I did. Anyway, it doesn't matter, I feel bad. But because you and I are so far removed from the remaining two books you never having read them and me having read them so long ago it's really hard to say fellowship is number one over the hobbit, which is a complete story.
Speaker 1:I know I don't have circles there, but no, that's where.
Speaker 2:I'm landed, you know what I mean. And again, I'm passive, right, so I'm completely fine waiting, I did. I did in fact do the same thing with Wheel of Time, right, like I did not. I refused to pick a favorite book for ages, yeah, you know, until I finished the season, the series, and had some time to really digest and think about, like, what were really some of my favorite moments.
Speaker 2:So I just feel like the same is going to be true here for me. I think that there was a lot of stuff in the fellowship that was incredibly iconic and interesting and the stuff where it deviates had made just as tight as the stuff that was verbatim. But I want I reserve judgment. Yeah, I think that's totally fair and yeah, the hobbit was more fun.
Speaker 1:I fellowship was deeper, probably. You know it had more. You know more, you know more, you know more, you know it had more nuance. It had more, I don't know. The roots went deeper, it's a harder thing to describe, but it the world building was more extensive, I think, and I like what Aldora said.
Speaker 2:You know, they said that they prefer the more adult tone. Totally, completely valid take, I think I do too. I'm just, I'm just going to hold out a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we also had such a fun time reading the hobbit, like together, right, it's like this, yes, like our first season and like all you know, diving into Tolkien for the first time together. It was a, it was a special moment for both of us and so so we both looked back on it fondly, and so we'll see, we'll see what happens when two towers comes up and and return of the king eventually, oof. And even though I, by the way, just to set the record straight, even though I think the Fellowship of the Ring is the perfect movie, it's not my favorite of the trilogy. Gotcha, yeah, because I really like emotion, I like to cry Like, I like like cathartic feelings, and those happen for me the most in the return of the king. So that's my favorite movie, but noted, yeah, just so we're all. What's what's? What's your favorite Lord of the Rings movie?
Speaker 2:It's probably fellowship. Honestly, yeah, return of the King does have all of that emotional cash out that you're talking about, but I think the fellowship was so satisfying I just I remember. I remember watching it and thinking this is what I've been waiting for my whole life this level of fantasy blockbuster on my screen. Not to, you know, put too much weight on it.
Speaker 1:But no, I genuinely.
Speaker 2:Genuinely, you know, as someone who grew up watching things like V and the original Dune and things like this not that those aren't wonderful in their own categories, but this was, you know I felt like Peter Jackson's treatment of Lord of the Rings was a real coming of age story and broke ground for so many more things in a visual media, much like Tolkien, broke ground for fantasy as a genre as a whole. Yeah, so yeah, the, the ability to see the fellowship on screen was everything. It was every vibe, every, every fantasy thing I'd ever wanted to see in more.
Speaker 1:Well, I could totally see that. Plus, it's an insane movie, like it's a perfect movie, so a totally valid pick. And, yeah, you vouch, no one Oof for me, that's just all of it. I just love it so much. Can't wait till we get to. Whatever version of that happens in the books. We'll see. It could be different, could be the same. We'll never know until we get there.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I feel like we hit all the high points that we wanted to hit. Yes, true, so I think it's important, given some comments that I've seen, that people are looking forward to continuing, or already continued to know when season three is going to begin, because we wanted you all to know that there's going to be a small break between seasons, which makes sense because they're separate seasons. I have some cosplay crafting to attend to in haste, because we've got Jordan Khan coming up and I'm I'm allegedly crafting an IEEL costume out of leather, and so we'll see how that goes. And so, yes, we're eyeing between our first episode for two towers being between, like the beginning of April and the middle of April.
Speaker 1:So if you're behind, you've got time to catch up. If you were ahead in the first place, feel free to continue being ahead. If you have a book that you were hoping to read but didn't know if you'd have a chance, here's your chance. Like to read in between. You know what I mean? Like a little little book, bookmark book, a little, whatever we will be sure to share on socials, though, and on critters discord.
Speaker 2:If you're not part of that but we were we will be keeping you posted when we know that that is official and we, like, have a drop date, but that's generally what we're looking at. So, again, whether your plan is to catch up, surpass us, take a break. Maybe you have your own funky cosplays you need to build. Who knows, who knows?
Speaker 1:Who knows? But yeah, so that is the plan, and apologies if you were hoping that we'd go straight through, but sometimes life demands cosplay, crafting. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Speaker 2:But when we come back, we're coming back like gangbusters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, weekly Tuesday drops, as you've come to expect, hopefully new guests and maybe some repeat guests, and it should be a hell of a good time. And if you have any comments about the way that we do things, you know like, if the pace, whatever, you know, like, are we reading too many chapters per episode, not enough chapters, I'll tell you right now we're not going to read more chapters per episode. But if you have that comment, you're welcome to make it. Just, you know, let us know. And because we we won't necessarily change based on your comments, but I think feedback is important, just to hear what people think. Love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will take this moment. Critter said it earlier. I'll say it again. Thank you all for listening, for coming to the live streams, if you interact with us on social, if you interact with us on Critters, discord, thank you. We love hearing from you guys, to whatever extent that you're willing to play with us. It makes it so much more fun, so please keep doing it. We love it. It is hugely inspiring to know that you guys are reading along with us.
Speaker 1:It is and like, we love that you're here, we love that you listen, and if you don't do anything, we still appreciate you being along for the ride. But if you do feel like taking your support like to the next level and you haven't reviewed us wherever you know, like if you watch us on YouTube, if you're subscribed to the channel and you like the videos incredible, if you felt like branching out, finding us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts and giving us a review would be super, super helpful, because that helps with the algorithm, it helps with discoverability and yeah. So if you and if you do listen on Apple and or Spotify and you haven't left a review yet, that would be super lovely and we would love if you did that. So, no pressure, we just love that you're here, but if you felt like it, I mean, we totally welcome that. We would appreciate that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, and we did not come up with an outro for this, but I think it would be appropriate to use the favorite outro as the outro for the season, because it was the season winner. So, jessica, do you want to? I believe this was one that you picked, not that we're keeping score.
Speaker 2:Did we do? Episode nine Eight, okay, okay, thank you all again. We can't wait to see you, hopefully in about a month, but keep an eye on our socials and we will keep you updated as soon as we have a plan. In the meantime, what we would say is go now with good hearts, fare well, and may the blessings of elves and men and all free folk go with you. Bye, good night.