But Are There Dragons Podcast
Bonus Episode: The Two Towers Wrap Party!
Jessica and Kritter have finished The Two Towers and here's the Wrap Party to prove it! Listen along as they discuss the highs, the lows, and how we're one step closer to One MVP to Rule Them All!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Jessica and Kritter have finished The Two Towers and here's the Wrap Party to prove it! Listen along as they discuss the highs, the lows, and how we're one step closer to One MVP to Rule Them All!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and work their way through it a few chapters at a time. I'm your host, critter, and I'm your host, jess. And we finished the Two Towers. Baby, this is the wrap party. We did it, we did it. Yeah, we did. We have read the Hobbit, the Fellowship of the Ring and now we have completed the Two Towers, feeling pretty good. How are you feeling, jess?
Jessica:Awesome, Like a rock star. We just did a little mental math backstage before we joined you guys to try and figure out how long it took us. We did two towers in two months flat and I'm like good job, Critter.
Kritter:We nailed it, we did great, we really crushed it. Okay, sorry, I just had to make sure we were actually live on youtube and it looks like we are so nice nailed it awesome super awesome. Yeah, so two months time finished it, outlined it, talked about it, really digested it, you know, broke it into its fundamental parts, um, and it was really good. Did you like it?
Jessica:it was, there was so much more to it than I thought going into it based on I think that's in one of the streams I mentioned that I consider the two towers to, I went into it with a preexisting bias that the two hours would have like middle child syndrome and not have a lot going for it and but now that we're on the other side of it can confirm that I don't feel that way anymore.
Kritter:Yeah, I tend to agree.
Kritter:No middle child syndrome we could talk about, like the various stages of the book, because it was structured differently than the Fellowship and the Hobbit.
Kritter:For sure, we got our first sort of split POV by book book, which was interesting, um, and in the context of all of this, we ended up going to see, or, you know, jess went and saw the first two movies right after having waited to see them this whole time that we've been reading them, and I went and saw the return of the king, because I only went and saw one of them whenever they were in theaters, um, and so we have like a new, fresh look at, you know, the books versus the movies, which is fun. And actually, I guess return of king had part of two towers in it anyways, when we're talking about she loves. So I did get to see part of the two towers, um, which was great. So, yeah, yeah, I guess, since we were starting here with talking about our whole journey, you know, so far, hobbit fellowship, two towers. I warned you about this, but I didn't warn you long ago. Have you considered how you would rate them, the three that we've read so far?
Jessica:So the three we would read that we've done so far. I think that fellowship still takes the cake over the hobbit by a narrow margin. Okay, um, which surprises even me. I just figured that out in that moment, but that's how I, that's how my heart, voted um. Two towers, although not a middle child, and substantially a better book than I expected it to be, is still not as complete or as engrossing as the fellowship was, although there was some incredible action this book this season we did. We saw a lot of very cool stuff.
Kritter:Yeah, okay, I forgot what your answer was when we talked about this last time, and so now, cause I thought I thought we had the same answer and and now I we don't. I'm pretty sure that my answer last time and I stand by it is that the Hobbit beat the fellowship. For me, I think I think that's what I said, just cause I feel like the Hobbit was so fun to read. You know, it was just like a, it was just like a, just a bop, you know, and and, but don't get me wrong, I think Fellowship is next. I agree with you that, like, hobbit and Fellowship are one and two.
Kritter:Neck and neck, I just and they're very much neck and neck yeah.
Jessica:Yeah, I think that possibly. So I am always subject to recency bias and I I admit you know like I am, so vibes driven, it's not even funny. So I don't doubt that I gave one answer one day and another answer another day. I completely can see me doing that. But I would just say in my defense, I feel more strongly now about this party at the end of Two Towers because I know them better than I did at the end of Fellowship, and I would say that that type of recency bias is probably influencing why now I'm saying Fellowship more than Hobbit. I love that Hobbit one, yes, is self-contained. Uh, yes, is a bot, but also the self-contained nature, like the Hobbit, is its own nugget. Um, but now that I've been with these guys, a whole nother book, I think it might be fellowship.
Kritter:Okay, no, honestly, like that's totally fair Cause I do think it like two towers adding added more to the overall story, which makes sense because it was written as a singular book and it was just split apart to, you know, accommodate the publishers or whatever, um, so I do think two towers builds on it and and there were some really really excellent passages from Towers, like some of my favorite stuff in the stuff that happens in Fellowship just a little more overall, I also like how the party is together and comes together and builds right, it's a fun thing to witness.
Kritter:And the two towers like the party split up, which is kind of sad, and so I think the structure sort of suffers not suffers, but like I think. I think the I like the fellowship structure better because it's it's more of a build, whereas two towers is like this is half the story, this is the other half of the story and it's very much like one after the other. Right, yeah, what are you gonna like? We're, I guess, both used to wheel of time, for example, where some some povs will get like paragraphs and then they'll jump back and forth between them and so you're getting live updates about everybody involved. Sometimes that doesn't happen to be fair, but sometimes it does um, so I think that's part of why fellowship beats out two towers for me, but only, only, only by a little bit.
Jessica:And fellowship sets the stage so heavily. Yeah, yeah, but two towers, absolutely. I was not expecting the way that two towers would really cement how I feel and progress how I feel about some of our party members. I was not expecting that so much like I'm trying to think back to fellowship honestly much like going together yeah, much like going to ribbondale and having all of that lore dropped on us.
Jessica:Two towers gave us so much context that again I felt like really new content for me as the first timer. That was probably there subtextually in the iterations that I had seen before, but I did not get and really amplified actions when it came. So, learning just how political and Machiavellian Sauron is, learning that Saruman is vying for himself, that there's different factions of orcs, that Sauron has manipulated groups of men and traded on their old grudges to get them to enlist, and all of these things are really they don't change the storyline, right, you know it doesn't change who Guajir rescues or where Gandalf gets stranded or any of those. It doesn't change plot points. But I never in a million years counted on how much they would amplify the read um and just make you know some of those really key points so much more uh, meaningful when I got to them in the story yeah, that's such a good point.
Kritter:Also, I can't believe I didn't say this, but hi, chat, this is a live recording and, uh, and I love to see some of you here from over from the discord aldora data luhu, uh, not all who wonder are lost. You guys are the real ones. Thank you for showing up live, um, and if you're listening after the fact you, it's obvious that we're also going to post this on the podcast eventually as like a bonus episode, but it's fun to do a live recording every now and then. So, hi, I know some of you are in some pretty wild time zones to show up, so we do really appreciate you, we do.
Jessica:Brother Zachariah just showed up. Thank you guys.
Kritter:Yeah, thank you so much for being here and for listening to the podcast. We appreciate all of you and the conversations that we get to have over on discord and the comments on youtube and all of that stuff. It's been a good time reading this and reading all of the books so far um really has. So I mentioned this in my my kind of overview of how I feel about the books. But how, how did you like or take the? The very split up nature of the books, like you know how we got the Mary Pippin, gandalf, aragorn Gimli section and then we got the Sam and Frodo section? Did that?
Jessica:go well for you. Well, to your point, I'm used to reading a book series that you can have a POV switch per paragraph or you can not see a POV for an entire book and everything in between. So I wouldn't say I wasn't prepared for it. It does change how the book feels, right. It does absolutely change the ride a little bit, and I think for the better. Honestly, like I can, I understand your point that the vibes were good when we were in fellowship, we were, you know it was very much so, by definition, about the fellowship themselves. And then, coming to the two towers, to me, whether intentional or not, there's some symmetry that we have two storylines split across this contrived book to simulate the separating of the party. So I kind of liked it. I thought that the symmetry of that experience as the reader was good, you know, kind of aligned with what was happening with the parties.
Kritter:Yeah, it does help you get like sucked in, I guess. Right, even though we missed or I missed Sam and Frodo at the beginning. Right, it was nice to just get to see what happened with the people that we were following. Right, without having to jump back and forth, because it is a fun way for some writers to create like cliffhangers mid book. Right, because you can stop, go to a different pov. Just right at the moment that you're like, oh no, like what's gonna happen? Right, this tolkien's like no, we are going to, we're just gonna, we're gonna take you right through everything that happened yeah, we are gonna play it through.
Kritter:Um, so that was nice, right, because I did miss frodo and sam, but at the same time I was, I was invested in the first half and then we stopped and it was like it did amp up the payoff, though, when we did get Frodo and Sam back.
Jessica:So I remember you asking me pretty early on in the first half of the book when do you think we'll see the boys again? And I'm like I have no idea. I again just so passively. We switched into book four and I was like oh okay. So the first book was oh okay, now I get it. I am just so like along for the ride.
Jessica:It's not even funny sometimes but it you know the symmetry, I really kind of dug and I did think that it added to the experience in its own way and it did make me really, really excited to see them. It made me very excited for them to get reunited. You know, once Gimli and Legolas and Aragorn got reunited with Merry and Pippin, it made all of that. It gave me bigger buy-in for that.
Kritter:Okay. So we got a comment in the chat from Aldora. I wasn't a fan of the separated POVs, I think, sorry. I think reading the entire first plot with Treebeard, helm's Deep, saruman etc. All done, my mind was then ready for Return of the King. So going back felt weird. I get you. I tend to agree. It's kind of like, even though you didn't get the mini cliffhangers which are possible whenever you're shifting POVs, you did get the big cliffhanger which is like Gandalf's taking pippin off into the west or off into the wild yep, and there may or may not be naskal following them and yeah, oh, like, right, and then we have to wait for an entire half book to be yeah, I know, that's what happens next yeah, no, that's a, that's a valid perspective, for sure.
Jessica:Um, and also keeping in mind this is a really jam-packed, essentially nine days, I think we worked it out. It really wasn't that long of a stretch. You know it's a week and a half um, and boy did these? Did this crew have a wild week and a half um? Yeah, but yeah, I, I don't necessarily typically like it when you have to go that long, as we mentioned with that other book series that we're both into, and I have to wait an entire book to get a pov from a character I've been missing.
Kritter:I don't like it uh-huh so this was a bit, this was a bit drawn out, so I definitely hear where you're coming from. Yeah, yeah tend to agree. Tend to agree. Narita zaraki, welcome to the chat. Finally caught alive, yeah well, we don't do them often. Um, we could, but you know, at least the end of every book, I think, is a good balance. Um, wow, I may sneeze. Give me a moment that's okay.
Jessica:I might take a moment to ask anybody in chat who can remember off the top of their head any of the quotes from any of the episodes. Did you have any favorites? Or if you had any hot MVP takes, because I do have our MVP count up and ready to go. So if you want to be in that mindset and you want to troll us for our choices or laud us for our choices, bring it Uh-huh.
Kritter:Okay, Narita's saying Frodo yeah. So if you have an overall book MVP that you would have chosen now that we've read the whole thing, or if you didn't read, if you'd listened because we tried to recap, we did our best Let us know who your book MVP is and then we can let you know what ours was based on the votes, Because you might be pleased. You might be surprised. I'm going to keep it cagey until we release it. We've got DataLooHoo hashtag SamMVP. Okay, we've got a couple of votes coming in.
Jessica:I will just to spice it up a little, tell you that we had a total of six different characters nominated for MVP between Critter and myself. So, of those six, you know, feel free to think about who you think might be the winner or who you think is the winner, because it ultimately doesn't really matter what I think who you think is the winner, cause it ultimately doesn't really matter what.
Kritter:I think. Yeah, there will be an official. But are there dragons, mvp? But everyone will have an MVP in their hearts, 100%, yeah, gosh, okay. So while we're, while we're waiting on some of the thoughts to trickle in, I guess we can talk about favorite parts of the book, if you want to kind of get into that like that. Maybe that will inform who our mvps were and I.
Kritter:I have recency bias here and I'm going to start from the very end, because I thought the end, the tail end of the sam and frodo plot was just spectacular. We got the like, we had sam and frodo extreme bonding, we had the talk about heroes, which you know we did the, the dramatic reading of, and then we went to she lobes lair and got frodo being very heroic, sam being insanely heroic. I just that part, even though I hate spiders and don't love the idea of fighting a giant, monstrous, otherworldly spider being. That played really, really well for me and I love that we got the payoff from Galadriel's file also right, like the gift that she had given really, truly paid off in those moments in my opinion. So that was a big highlight for me from this book. I think that those last chapters. What would you say?
Jessica:one of your big highlight, I will answer, I'm going to counter, I'm going to give you a follow-up to think on while I answer Okay, do you think, can you think of a thing that you feel like you really enjoyed this time around that maybe younger critter didn't catch or didn't give weight to?
Jessica:percolate, percolate, percolated, yep I'm scrolling you guys, um, so I had a lot of yeah and to critter's point. That end with sam and and frodo is intense like boy scouts, right, like it's really a very heartfelt um story, part of the story um, and very impactful as it's happening. There were some other things that happened in this book, though, that I very much loved. There were moments. I think one of my favorite surprises from this book was in knowingly and the autonomy that this story gave them as opposed to how it was represented on the screen.
Jessica:I can't, um, I like that so much better, which, again doesn't really change the the nuts and bolts of the story, but I like that so much more and wish that they had kept it that way, honestly. Yeah, but that was huge. I loved everything with tree beard. All of that was magnificent, in my opinion, yeah. And then, of course, the reuniting of Legolas, gimli, aragorn and and Pippin. That was sweet, such like sunshine in a bottle, just such good vibes. Mary and Pippin continued to impress me through book two, how they are so much more than how they were represented on the screen. And again, no shade to the actors who are playing them or the way that the adaptation was written. I just know so much more now.
Kritter:Yeah.
Jessica:And I see Dana Lou who given it up for Faramir. Another surprise, right Like kind of Faramir is the flip side of Thorin for me. So Thorin was the big disappointment for me. From my Hobbit read Faramir was my big surprise. Faramir is so much better in the book than I would have ever given him credit for. So I think those are some of my favorite highlights as the first timer on this book.
Kritter:I think, just to jump right off of that and to answer your question, there were a couple of favorite highlights as the first timer on this book. I think, just to jump right off of that and to answer your question, there were a couple of things that I probably more or less nothinged as a kid, and one of them is I feel like I would have remembered Faramir, because as an adult I read about Faramir and I was like this man is everything Like this, is a dreamy, wizard-like man like that, any like. He is incredible, he is noble, like Boromir, who you know what I mean. And I don't remember really being like that into Faramir. I think it did.
Kritter:Probably when I was reading as a kid I was like, okay, yeah, like, let's just, you know why are we stopping in this random camp? Right, I wanted the plot to continue, but as an adult, I'm over here just like dang this guy is. He is something else, like love him a lot and then two, I really think I probably nothing. The saruman is like turning the wheels for himself, like the politics. I think that is something that I just didn't really pay attention to Cause I wasn't like who cares, he's a bad guy. They're all bad guys. You know I don't give a crap, so I think the Saruman chapters hit a little harder as an adult than they did as a kid.
Kritter:Cause it was. It was more just like Ooh, the wheels are turning everywhere, everybody's doing their thing and the plates are shifting, whatever. So I'd say those are the two things, probably more than anything else, that I really dug into more in this read than I did as a kid.
Jessica:I want to call out Aldora's comment about Legolas and Gimli. A hundred percent, legolas and Gimli planning a vacation together was one of my top three moments of all time reads.
Jessica:I mean not just the series Like I, just the soft, cute boy feels I got from. That is beyond that and the healing power of Rabbit Stew. I think those were some of my very favorite moments. I do tend to get fixated on moments that have nothing to do with the plot and everything to do with the vibe, but I could not get over the big, soft, squishy feels. This gave me so 100% a highlight.
Kritter:Yeah, there were some real soft squishy feels in two towers, like that's one of the reasons that I you know when I'm rating them I'm just like gosh. But what about the like two towers? It's the last. But what about the she lobe stuff? What about sam and frodo talking about how each other like they're heroes? What about gimli and legless bromancing out like all of this stuff is so good and uh and yeah, so I, I really we've got not all who wonder or lost. I've always loved book fair mirror. I can't believe I forgot how incredible he was that's.
Jessica:I just didn't know what I was missing out on. Yeah, I really, as a moviegoer, I really nothinged him as just a second son and I have never felt more regret. I was like, no, no, he's everything we love him yeah, and I even throw back to when we had Don on for fellowship, don Marshall, obscure Lord of the Facts guy, cool dude, and him talking about you know all the pressure that Boromir's under, and how much. Oh, dina Lu, is it the soft squishy center?
Kritter:It probably is, yeah that sounds right.
Jessica:All the pressure that Boromir is under and you know, getting to know Boromir and Faramir's relationship really meaningful, Just really getting insight and getting it from Faramir's take.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and it's interesting too because we get to see like Faramir, you get hints at least of how Faramir like actually understands Boromir Right, and like who he is and you know, no, he knows his sibling right, so he's not going to be like he's a saint, he's perfect. He knows that he's not. And that's a fun thing to see too, because in the movies it's very much like you can tell that he has this complex a little bit, because Boromir's the favorite son, right, but it doesn't really go much farther than that. But in the books he's wiser than that, he's incredibly wise, which is part of the reason I like him so much.
Jessica:He, he's wiser than that, he's incredibly wise, which is part of the reason I like him so much, and I can totally say that with a hundred percent sure surety now. That that is the vibe I got from how he was portrayed in the movies. He he looks snarly. When he's talking to Sam and Frodo he seems malevolence, probably a touch too strong, but he seems far more menacing than stoic. You know what I mean. In the read he kind of seems stoic, reserved, holding his cards close, which I get um, whereas in the movie he just he seemed much more negatively portrayed until the very end.
Kritter:Yeah, he. He had a stint in the movies as an antagonist, like a minor antagonist but an antagonist.
Jessica:But I was like did I remember that? Did I insert that? Did I do that?
Kritter:No, no, they absolutely did that for sure. So, yeah, it's, it was it. It gave me a whole whole. It opened my eyes again, 20 years since I've read the books, so they'll come for me. I forgot, or just didn't even notice, how amazing faramir was the first time around, and then the movies fully corrupted me between now and then. Um, but I am back and I am a faramir stan and I will be here to stay.
Jessica:Uh, yeah, yeah what are some of the other? Uh, I loved mary and pippin drinking the draft from tree beard.
Kritter:That was just incredible I like how all the hobbits get like sustenance in some way, right like sam's got his Lembas bread, mary and Pippin have the Ent draft. They're never, even though it's perfectly sustaining, they're always just like I'd rather have some bread.
Jessica:I'd rather have some potatoes, stew, whatever.
Kritter:They're such hobbits, we never lose the hobbity factor, which I love because, like, hobbits are just the best creatures ever, which I think Treebeard came to realize, which I think was great. Like him, adding them to the roles of creatures was a really fun moment and the way he described them was really sweet. I can't, I don't have it like in front of me, but it was. I remember that being also very heartwarming. Another part of the soft squishy center, um so yeah, I'm okay with that.
Jessica:Maybe that's what we'll title this, this live stream the soft squishy center of jolteon yeah, it's because it was.
Kritter:It had a lot of really good vibes Granted. Sam kind of roughened the edges a bit when it came to his relationship with Smeagol. So we can't say it's all sunshine and roses. We can't.
Jessica:The Smeagol thing was hard. I see Narita brings it up Sorry, no, I think it was Eldora brought it up a little bit earlier about uh smiegel seeming almost hobbit, like when they're sleeping, just before um he, uh sam, wakes up and has his altercation with him and that. You know, that was a really hard moment for me because I don't think that that was represented on the screen anywhere, but it really felt like a turning point in that relationship. But even being the self-proclaimed Smeagol stan that I am, seeing those two finally come to blows and have at each other was was kind of good. You know what I mean. Instead of just snarling at each other and just being generally rotten to each other, let's go get it out of your system.
Kritter:Let's do this okay. Yeah, it was. I'd say that was probably the biggest. I don't want to call it a disappointment, because I think it furthered the plot well and I think it was a good. I think it added to the story essentially. But the thing I disliked the most was Sam's relationship with Gollum and how angry, snarly, prickly he was toward him the whole time. And, granted, I am not a Gollum fan, I hate Gollum. But it didn't help the situation in any way at all and I am a Sam Stan till the day I die, like I am. He is my man, but my Hobbit, I guess. But still, that was kind of like a I wish that didn't happen.
Jessica:I think that I think we had said it during one of the episodes. When we were talking about it, though that that was the tangible way in which you could see that Sam was carrying a weight too. It wasn't just Frodo who was struggling under the weight of the ring. This, to me, was a behavioral extension of the weight that the quest is pressing down on him with, and you know, gollum is antagonizing him and jabbing at him verbally as well, too.
Kritter:Like they are not perfect, Well, and I totally get you know, Sam's primary directive is protect Frodo. Get Frodo to the finish line like and Gollum. While helping them to the finish line is understandably making him nervous, as far as him being around is is just I don't know, antecedent it's. It's. It's in conflict with my primary directive, which is protecting frodo, because I think at any moment he could turn on us and and so I get it. It's just it's hard to read because Sam is our little teddy bear.
Kritter:But Daniel LeHue is right in that Sam needs to have a major flaw he can't be perfect. If he was perfect like Faramir, then you know the character wouldn't be as deep of a character. So I get it, I get it. I just you know I'm not trying to be fair and talk about our likes and our dislikes, and that was probably my biggest dislike of the book Understandable.
Jessica:Understandable, I think I'm going to go ahead and give in alphabetical order who the six contenders are for MVP. Okay, I'm doing this on the fly, okay. Mvp Okay, I'm doing this on the fly, okay. So it's Faramir Frodo, gandalf Pippin, sam Treebeard Everybody get that. Those are the six contenders that were nominated for MVPs throughout the season. Okay, just to give you all that information.
Kritter:There was an honorable mention at one point, correct Technically two, Technically two.
Jessica:So I had one and you had one. Oh, that's right. So if we go to episode six, you had asked, you had said that you thought long and hard about Galadriel, first because of the file rightfully so, yeah. And then in episode, I didn't mark it. Of course I didn't mark it because why would I make meaningful notes In one of the episodes? I wanted to nominate both Mary and Pippin. Couldn't do it. I agreed with you wholeheartedly. It's a terrible precedent to set. So I nominated Pippin, on the understanding that you know he wins by a nose because of having the spare pipe, as representative of both Pippin and Mary vibes.
Kritter:Yeah, so shout out to Mary and Galadriel for your Thank you for your service, thank you for your contributions.
Jessica:Yeah, thank you for your contributions.
Kritter:We appreciate you. We see you. I will say that Aldora is a real one and looked up the rhyme, the Hobbit's addition into the Ent lists, and the rhyme goes. The phrase goes Ent's the earthborn, old as mountains, the white walkers, the wide walkers, water drinking and hungry as hunters, the hobbit children, the laughing folk, the little people just yeah, I don't know my heart grew three sizes there.
Kritter:Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I just love that rhyme, so or that I don't know verse, so it's so cute and it perfectly captures the essence of the hobbits.
Jessica:Yeah, and Eldor had an honorable mention for the rope Totally.
Kritter:It's important. The rope saved them. Without the rope, where would they be? Yeah, okay, so do we want to?
Jessica:Yes, I'm going to let you share Me. Okay, let me pull it up, let me get. I've got, I've got this. I've never shared on live stream before you guys, so we're gonna make critter, do it, oh share.
Kritter:Okay, okay, okay, hold on, I gotta like try to zoom this in because it's really small, um, which I can absolutely do. Okay, yeah, that's pretty big. Now, all right, sharing. Okay, drum roll, please share screen. This is gonna be fine we're doing this we're doing it. Okay, boop, where'd it go? I'm currently sharing my screen. Okay, there they are. They are.
Jessica:There they are, you guys. So I think that somebody did call it in chat. I didn't mark it and I'm sorry, but somebody was on to us, yes they were. Oh, there's Aldora, Yep, aldora, right on the mark. Yep, yep. So it's not hard math, you guys.
Kritter:I just put it on a spreadsheet and counted so you got me um, I say that and I still had to count it three different times last time, so I guess I shouldn't minimize and I gotta like and I was wrong about something completely, this time we're sure because jessica did it and I'm not gonna question it it's a terrible choice.
Jessica:Never take anything I give you at face value Never. This strikes me as correct, though, yeah, so we both voted for Pippin on episode one. We both voted. We had a lot of samesies this season. We did. We both voted for Treebeard for episode two. Oh, aldora, I'm going to take that with me this weekend. I love that, thank you. Episode three we were both standing Gandalf. Episode four both Pippin. We got to episode five. Critter gave the the first time that Frodo's gotten a shout out, which is pretty wild. I gave it up for Gandalf, and I'm pretty sure this one was. He dropped all the lore that led everybody, kept everybody rolling.
Kritter:Well, the fact that Gandalf and Frodo were in the same episode means it was like right at the break, right, and so it was. Yeah, it was Frodo taking charge when they were climbing down the cliffs, the Palantir.
Jessica:So that's yeah, it was frodo taking charge when they're like climbing down the cliff, palantir so that's what it was the palantir, which was chapter 11 in book three and chapters one and two for book four. That's right, um. And then episode six we had critter went for faramir, I went for frodo, we swapped for episode seven, and then we came together at the end and both heartily shouted for Samwise.
Kritter:Because man the end, he really came through.
Jessica:The choices of master gam, master Samwise Gamgee, come on.
Kritter:Yeah, there's no disputing it was wild.
Jessica:So yeah, this was a pretty close. This was a pretty close season All things considered.
Kritter:Yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I I didn't like keep tally. Obviously jessica was a spreadsheet queen as spreadsheet mvp, whatever you want to say, um, but in my brain I assumed it was gonna be gandalf, I think. I just thought, you know, I can't. Who was it last book, do you?
Jessica:remember? Oh, I do not have. Overall. No, I'd have to go back because I don't. I don't put the outcome in the spreadsheet. We do it live.
Kritter:Yeah, I think if I could be totally wrong, I want to say Fellowship's MVP was Gandalf, just off the top of my head Could be wrong, so I just I don't know.
Jessica:it was like gandalf, he's great, he's a leader, he, whatever I have the mvp list for season two, but I don't remember because remember I had to check the math like four different times.
Jessica:It was embarrassing legit embarrassing tie, no so I had sam, gandalf and bilbo as spots one, two and three. Oh so it was maybe sam. Okay, it might have been sam on fellowship. Okay, I could see that we had a lot more, had guests too, so that made it a little interesting for me to try to capture Apparently. Apparently that's what makes it hard. So, anyways, it looks like, if my last cheat sheet can be believed, that Sam won season two.
Kritter:Okay, and now we've got, you know he only got two this season. Man were they. It was a big two, like those last chapters whoa, yeah, whoa that.
Jessica:Uh, he ended with a bang um, and I'll be starting.
Kritter:Return of the king tonight I do think, as far as heroism goes, you you know, because, like this is by episode, right, so it was all very much based on the episode breakdown and because we didn't get cause we had, like, the first half of the season was, you know whoever it? Mvp is interesting for these books because the POV split, in my opinion, like Sam and Frodo didn't have a single chance until halfway through the book, right, and the same goes for everybody else. They didn't have a chance after the first half of the book and so it kind of just it. It really I. I'm having a really hard time articulating this, but I want to say if I'm picking my number one hero from this book, it's Sam, just because of how much of a banger that last part was and how stunningly heroic he came across.
Jessica:Well, I think that this is going to bring us to a point where we have to talk about what criteria are we deciding who wins the whole shoot and match at the end? Are we just doing who's one book one, book two and book three and we can only pick from those three? Are we doing different criteria? Are we? We need to put some time into it, I feel like. I feel like our mvp choice for the end of the season, next season, needs to be solid and thought out.
Kritter:Yeah, true, yeah, I guess, like adding all the points up makes the most sense to me. Mm-hmm, not, like you know, deciding between the MVPs of every book overall.
Jessica:Right, because they're meant to all be together. He's got three picks in this season. He had five picks in last season. I got you Right, yeah, yeah.
Kritter:That makes the most sense to me. But I also think that maybe there should be like bonus points awarded Like in some way Based on. Based on this like Sam didn't have a ton of chances, but by boy howdy, in my opinion he was the biggest hero.
Jessica:Right, he was literally only in half the book.
Kritter:And yeah, yeah, and granted, the other ones were too. Narita, thank you. Stunningly heroic is really the best description. I love Frodo, but then in the face of Shelob, I would abandon him so quickly. Yeah, I mean, the file of Galadriel doesn't lie. It's shown like a mother when Sam had it Right. And so I'm just saying I don't know, I don't know, who would you, who would you put as your like? Pippin is the MVP based on points, who would you points aside, who do you consider your number one person, hero, character for this book, for this?
Jessica:book. Yeah, I would say Samwise, okay, I mean, it's really hard to ignore. It's really hard to ignore. Also, like you and I have had long conversations about you know the primary goal, and getting that ring to Mordor is the primary goal and there's so. But Frodo, narita, I hear you, I hear you, frodo is doing the lights work. I get it. I just can't get past in my mind. The mental image of Frodo has to carry it, so Sam carries him, and so much of this book strikes that chord with me.
Jessica:Yeah, oh my gosh are nails, like about the? Same color I I was looking earlier and I was like don't get mad at me, but can we talk nails for a second? This is not what they're gonna look like tomorrow. They're changing tomorrow.
Kritter:Well, still for them, we didn't plan that. Guys, look at this. How cute is that? Uh, for those of you listening and not watching, they're like a light blue, like a they are like a robin's egg blue, yeah, um, and mine are waxing and waning.
Jessica:They are so long and so janky. They need to go away and get fresh for a very special occasion this weekend.
Kritter:So this weekend this weekend yeah, data who's over here.
Jessica:see why I voted for Sam, for MVP, yes, I would never question anybody for that, but I do like the fact that we're doing it by episode. I really do like that because it does give a different perspective, and having to do it based on just that read gives a very different perspective, also helps me digest what I just read too. Someone earlier asked what the read was for season four Dana Lou and I'm going to just pull that up. I think that we had said we're going to start return of the King.
Kritter:Yeah, quickly actually, because if you, yes, missed my announcement, I'm going to be taking a hiatus here soon after we finish return of the king, because I am, uh, I am with child and we'll be giving birth in the fall. So we have to, we have, we can't have a big long hiatus between this book and the next book.
Jessica:so we, we don't, we're going to hop right to it. So for the first episode for season four, for Return of the King, we're doing chapters one and two To answer your question, dana Lou.
Kritter:And that should come out. July 9th that sounds very right. Yes, because we're recording it. The third, yeah, yeah. So july 9th, chapters one and two of return of the king.
Jessica:We are not wasting any time, y'all, we are jumping straight in, um, so yeah, because we, because we really want to wrap up this series before Baby comes.
Kritter:Yeah, that's the plan Aldora said put the headset around your belly and let the baby hear Andy Serkis. The baby has been hearing Andy Serkis as I play my audiobooks out loud in the car and anytime I'm not on my headset, so he will be familiar with Andy Serk, circus and the lord of the rings soundtrack and taylor swift by the time he arrives so all these essentials right, he's gonna enter the world very well rounded.
Jessica:Love it, I think he will. I think he will.
Kritter:Yeah, amazing, um daniel, who, I agree, pippin gets it in the first half and sam gets it in the second half and it's I just now kind of thought of this. But, like you're right, I do like that we're doing it based on episode, because it's like almost grading on a curve, right, because it's not how he is in the grand scheme, it's how he is compared to his peers at any given moment in time, right, and so it's fun that pippin won, right because, although I will point out, pippin won the first half, all four votes were the first half.
Jessica:As one would expect, frodo technically would take the second half based on just count. True, so true, so yeah, interesting. We can read this early, aldora, we have not yet negotiated our next project, but I love your enthusiasm.
Kritter:Yes, thank you for the comment. We will take that under advisement. Okay, so fun. Those are our MVP numbers now. Now, how do I stop sharing? It's a really good question that I'm going to learn actually End my screen share. Boom, okay, that was easy. Wow, they make it so easy.
Jessica:Now I want to try it with the quotes. Okay, just because you know we have all of you here with us and it's so nice to get your input Heads up before you share a screen. Okay, I understand, I'm gonna share a word document screen. You guys, bear with me.
Kritter:It's very official brother zachariah, baby critters. First words will be my precious. I'm just gonna have to struggle not to say that like the first time we meet. You know what I mean. I'm just going to have to struggle not to say that like the first time we meet.
Jessica:You know what I mean. I am sharing Critter. You might have to give me permission to let it on screen.
Kritter:Okay, let me see here. Oh, here we go. Show on stream.
Jessica:Look at that, that's still really small, you guys. I'm sorry. So all I wanted to do was we have a really good time pulling together these quotes and I just thought I'd share with you all what we had this year or this season, excuse me, and see if you all had a favorite. So for episode one we had top quote farewell and may you find what you seek, return with what speed you may, and let our swords hereafter shine together. Episode two if you can foresee, I'll let you read that through. We had enough dramatic reading already this season. But if you have a favorite from those, would you be willing to share it with us and tell us in the chat so that we can pick it as our official season three quote oh yeah, we gotta pick, like the one you know to sign off with from this live stream the one quote to rule them all exactly, at least in the two towers.
Kritter:Um, yeah, yeah, so sorry. I'm reading them to see if I have a favorite.
Jessica:I'm like I could have set that up a little bit cleaner. I had no intention of sharing that document tonight. Blood and bloody ashes. Yeah, blood and Bloody Ashes. Yeah, oh, narita is voting for six Yep. Farewell, dear listener. We must each go swiftly on the ways appointed to us.
Kritter:Got it Good one, clear to the point, the ways appointed to us.
Jessica:Got it Good one.
Kritter:Clear to the point. Aldora going for the umami play.
Jessica:Got it.
Kritter:Quote one.
Jessica:That's a good one. Oh sorry, Dana Lou, I don't know if I can make it any bigger and still fit.
Kritter:Oh, I can just show it by itself, can.
Jessica:I Suck. Brother Zachariah is going for number five, which is follow Smeagol. I will not be following up Critter. Incredible performance. Um, but I did. You can't see but in yellow to the right of that it says best performance nomination, because I'm a smart aleck even in word documents that I don't plan on sharing with anybody.
Kritter:Thanks, um okay, yeah, it's in, it's big now, so hopefully, thank you, I can see it um okay oh, we did farewell my hobbits twice.
Jessica:Oops, that's okay, oh, that's so funny. Sometimes we don't, we don't have anything, and we look back further in the book and then we forget we've already used it apparently well, but I liked ending the season on it because the may we meet again in my house was like I hope to see you again in the podcast, because the podcast is our house. So I I loved the symmetry of ending on that I.
Kritter:I tend to agree, man, there's some really good ones in there. I kind of like I like the uh, I also like the few can foresee whether their road will lead them till they come to its end and this is our end. Like I, I don't know I was proud of myself for that one and so, um, he did really like the word farewell at Eldora. There's some real bangers here.
Kritter:I think there were some really good parting of the ways language in this book that we completely stole for our sign off. Daniel does not like the long ones, so you like the one that I. Just. What was it Few can foresee?
Jessica:It is the end us go. Yes, that was, that was you, wasn't it?
Kritter:that was a you sign off yeah, granted, it was in the book. It was very much like, uh, we don't know what to do um, give me pithy.
Jessica:Oh, dana lou, okay, okay, well, we have. I don't feel like we had any double ups. We had some separate, some separate votes.
Kritter:So six, one and five I think, um, I think I'm gonna back up the. We must each go swiftly on the ways appointed to us. I just wanted to shout out the and this is the end, till next week, but I think the the dear listener also reminds me of lady whistle down. Yeah, and we must each go swiftly on the ways appointed to us. It's good, it's a good one. I like that a lot.
Jessica:Dana Lou voting for farewell my hobbits, okay.
Kritter:Okay, fair enough. What's your favorite one?
Jessica:I mean, I know you think I'm picking on you, but follow smiegel, your read for follow smiegel was fantastic. I enjoyed that so much. Um, okay, I think that number two is technically my favorite. Few can foresee whether their road will lead them. Uh, just because I do, it's flowery and that's yeah, so I think that number two wins it for me this year, this season, okay okay, so what does that mean?
Kritter:I don't know. I feel like I shouldn't have two votes. That was my first vote and then I gave it to somebody else to basically tie-break. Now the two that I voted for are the two that have two, so I need to.
Jessica:Al Dora is still advocating for number one. It's a good one. It is a good one. I I abstain. Wow, they were all so good.
Kritter:They really are. They're all good, oh man, okay, uh, let's give it like one more minute. And if you voted for something other than number two, the few can foresee whether their road will lead them till they come to its end. And this is our end. Till next week. Versus what is it? Farewell, dear listener. We must each go swiftly on the ways appointed to us. If you voted for something else other than those, please break this tie. Please break this tie and pick one of those two, and we can call that our official sign off for the two towers. I will very, we will very much appreciate your, your efforts. If you, I will very, we will very much appreciate your, your efforts. If you, if you do that and since we are, let me I didn't realize that we're I still am not showing us.
Jessica:Let me go. That's okay. You were letting them have a good long read, it's true, I was okay, let's do this.
Kritter:This is a different, no, that's not a different one. Boop, there we, there we go, got it. Farewell, dear listener from Dana Lou.
Jessica:Thank you. Thank you, Dana Lou, for ending the torture.
Kritter:Yes, yes, when we sign off, assuming nobody else chimes in, and if they do, then we'll take that into account, but when we sign off, that'll be okay. Nine that's sarcasm. Oh, thank you, brother zachariah. Great, great, um.
Jessica:Okay, so out of those number two we've still got a tie, then good we can smush them together if you can foresee whether their road will lead them till they come to its end. And this is our end. Till next week. Farewell, dear listener.
Kritter:We must each go swiftly on the plays appointed to us you know what daniel is gonna hate that, but she is but she's also a very gracious person and will forgive us okay, yeah, unless we get another vote, that'll be, uh, that'll be our sign off. Um, but before we do sign off, I would like to keep these for around an hour. We're coming up on that time. Is there anything else we want to talk about about the two towers, before we we bail, any final thoughts?
Jessica:I just wasn't expecting to get into it so much. I know that sounds silly. We started a podcast about it and the whole thing, but, um, it's really very engrossing and I have been loving it and I can see why people are so dedicated to it. Um, and uh, slight tangent, just slight tangent. Uh, watching stranger things right now and there's so many um, lord of the rings references in that and I thought I find it very adorable because I was like, oh my God, I got that reference. I'm Captain America over here going. I understood that reference and so Lord of the Rings in the wild is more meaningful to me now and I really, I just love that is more meaningful to me now and I really I just love that.
Kritter:That's awesome. Aldora is wondering for you thoughts on the future for Saruman Because, unlike the movies, he is alive.
Jessica:He is alive. He is holed up in the towers where we left him. I honestly don't, can't perceive, can't fathom that Sauron will leave him untouched. Like I would think that Sauron's going to come for him, because I'm of a mind, like Gandalf said, that he does not share power. So I think that Sauron's going to come for him, yeah.
Kritter:I think that's a totally fair assessment, but I will neither confirm nor deny whether it's correct.
Jessica:Narita is willing to change votes from six to two, so the twos have it.
Kritter:Well, and brother Zachariah also went for two. So we we officially have a sign off for this. Thank you, thank you all, for accommodating our need for um for finality. I don't know for a definitive pick. Uh, I appreciate the love for all the quotes and for my performance with the smiegel. You know my impression leaves a bit to be desired, not at all. Well, I'm glad that you're into it.
Kritter:Honestly, I love these books. I remembered loving these books and it's just. I can't believe I've let it go so long since I've read them and now I can just confidently recommend them to literally anyone who will listen because it's not been they hold, to literally anyone who will listen because it's it's not been like they. They hold the, they hold up. Essentially, they've withstood the test of time and I should have known that. I mean the cult, it's not even a cult following, it's a rabid following for these books. I should have known that. Of course they're incredible, um, but yeah, yeah, it was a pleasure reading and I'm I'm happy that I'm doing it and I'm excited to be continuing basically where we're at um.
Jessica:One last question going into it, based on your remembrance from the last time that you read is return of the king your favorite for reading?
Kritter:for reading, for reading, for reading. I doubt it. Okay, it's been a really long time, but I don't think so Just based on because you and I we're not battle skirlies, right, we aren't.
Jessica:I'm a little worried about that. I'm like if return is as battle heavy as I expect it to be, I I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to brace for that, yeah so yeah, I don't think so, but time will tell and I could have a completely different perspective on it as an adult versus as a kid.
Kritter:And for what it's worth, return of the king is my favorite of the movies, so you know, if there's a reason for that, it makes me cry, and maybe this one will make me cry too. We'll see. When I was a kid, I was a huge. I was really stoic, if you can believe that, and so, uh, there were. There wasn't really crying involved in reading books, but this time around there definitely could be I was gonna say I'm a fan of closure.
Jessica:So a lot of times the third book does very well for me, depending on if I feel satisfied with the outcomes. And again, recency bias. I'm always, I'm always subject to recency bias, so we'll see how it goes If it takes over for fellowship in the rankings.
Kritter:Okay, and Narita has a great point. Gonna cop out and say Tolkien intended for this story to be one book, so winky face. I agree. I think that's. When people ask me what my favorite movie is, I first say the Lord of the Rings.
Kritter:Only do I specify Return of the king if they force it upon me because it is the whole experience that is my favorite, because you know what doesn't hit as hard if I haven't watched the first two movies return of the king it still hits, but it doesn't hit as hard. So it's really for me a package deal the whole, and I think the books are, like, understandably, best when digested whole as well, like in yeah, so I will say that I came home the second.
Jessica:I got home from the movie theater, I immediately purchased online um extended edition of all three yes, yes, yes so that I could go back and look. Did I tell you that I missed like the first five minutes on movie one and like the first 10 minutes of movie two because they started before the air time that was published?
Kritter:no, I missed the first like five minutes because they started exactly on time and didn't have previews. And when do they do that?
Jessica:never, no, but so they did it with no previews but they also. So I came home after the two towers and I was like they didn't even show how Gollum had found them yet, like I don't understand what's happening. So I, like I said, immediately purchased all of them so that I could watch return of the King the second we finish and I watched back to see how much movie I had missed and it was like 12 minutes of movie Of actual movie I had missed, and it was like 12 minutes of movie of actual movie that I missed and I was like I was in the movie theater In the two towers, See the beginning of two towers.
Kritter:That's when that's Gandalf's fight, right, yes, the Balrog fight.
Jessica:Oh, that part's so good, yep, merry and Pippin are in custody you. Good, yep, mary and Pippin are in custody you. The first thing I saw was that Gollum was already with Sam and Frodo. Wow. So there was a catch up on Mary and Pippin, a catch up on Gandalf, and then we came back to Sam and Frodo. Wow. So, anyways, I think you know just a little grouse, but yeah, I was.
Kritter:I was equally a little miffed because I really didn't expect them to start the movie without previews. I am a movie goer. I like to go to the movie theater A month or so maybe, maybe once every other month, depending on what's coming out. I have it down where you can literally get to the theater at showtime.
Jessica:I walked in at 11 32 like I walked into the theater to my seat at 11 32. I'm like there's no. You like that's 15 minutes of content. Not only did you have zero, um, how dare screeners, you know but you, you legit ran 10 plus minutes a movie so you got robbed.
Kritter:I just didn't plan well enough it's basically how that.
Jessica:It was the first one. The fellowship was a little bit of both, like I was holding out for my uh, sweet, sweet snacks at the concession stand, thinking that I had um preview time, yeah I made that.
Kritter:I made that mistake too.
Jessica:I made that mistake too. I planned better for the two towers, so when I walked in at 1132, I was like this is bogus.
Kritter:Yeah, bs. This is not how it's supposed to be, but anyways, we digress.
Jessica:Yeah, no way.
Kritter:Not us. Can't believe that happened. All right, do you wanna? You know? You're the. You're the. Wow, I can't. I wasn't. It's not collaborator, it's, it's. It's not coagulator. You're the person who gathered all the sign-offs. Yes, you're the compiler. When I tell you Pregnancy Brain is truly real, oh, it's real, it's very real. If you don't believe it's real, it's real. So you're the compiler of all the sign-offs.
Jessica:Yeah, would you like to do the honors, I'll take a stab at it. Okay, I think that both Critter and I want to say thank you so much for taking time to stop in, especially if you're in a crazy time zone. We see you, we love you, we appreciate you in day in and day out, through Discord, youtube, drop in comments, whatever it might be on socials. We love, love, love having you guys along for the ride. So we appreciate you so much. You have no idea we are kicking right into Return of the Kings because we're going to try and finish it before the end of September. That's our goal.
Jessica:So for those of you who want to continue reading along. Our first leg of the trip should be chapters one and two. Leg of the trip should be chapters one and two, and um, I'll do it, we're going to let you go to bed soon. Um, it'll be chapters one and two of book five, and that should air July 9th wherever you get podcasts, or here on our YouTube channel. Uh, thank you so much. Please follow us If you're not already. You can find us as but Are there Dragons? On Instagram, tiktok and YouTube. And but Dragons Pod just one T on X. You can find us both on social media Critter XD or myself as Shelf Indulgence in any of our spaces. We love you all so much. Here is our final send-off for season three. Few can foresee whether their road will lead them till they come to its end, and this is our end Until next season. We love you guys all so much. Good night Good night.