The Devil You Don’t Know
Winding Roads and The Complexities of Growing Up
Imagine navigating the winding, guardrail-less roads of Tortola, the landscape as thrilling as it is breathtaking. In this episode of "The Devil You Do Not Know," we share our exhilarating Caribbean adventure, from Cleveland's keen interest in U.S. politics to Lindsay's delightful exploration of local cuisine and literature. The journey to Lindsay's parents' cottage adds a layer of excitement, comparing the unique driving challenges of Tortola to those of Barbados, turning a relaxing island vacation into an unexpected thrill ride.
Transitioning from our island escapades, we tackle the nuanced journey of adulting. We explore the pressures and challenges that young adults face today, such as anxiety and financial independence, and how these differ from previous generations. The discussion touches on the non-linear path to maturity, distinguishing between emerging and floundering adults, and the importance of practical life skills like budgeting and time management in navigating adult responsibilities.
Delving deeper into the generational disconnect, we discuss the delayed milestones that characterize modern adulthood. Economic realities have shifted dramatically, making higher education a necessity for many entry-level jobs, and creating a unique set of challenges for today's youth. Through personal anecdotes and reflections, we highlight the importance of mental health awareness, support systems, and the evolving concept of work-life balance. Whether you're a young adult finding your way or a parent supporting one, this episode offers valuable insights into achieving financial independence and understanding what it truly means to be an "adult" in today’s complex world.
Resources and Recommendations:
Books:
"Adulting: How to Become a Grown-up in 468 Easy(ish) Steps" by Kelly Williams Brown.
"The Defining Decade: Why Your Twenties Matter – and How to Make the Most of Them Now" by Meg Jay.
Podcasts:
"The Adulting Podcast" by Jordan Paris.
"Adulting with Michelle Buteau and Jordan Carlos."
Websites and Tools:
Financial planning tools like Mint or YNAB (You Need A Budget).
Career development sites like LinkedIn Learning or Coursera.
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
Imagine navigating the winding, guardrail-less roads of Tortola, the landscape as thrilling as it is breathtaking. In this episode of "The Devil You Do Not Know," we share our exhilarating Caribbean adventure, from Cleveland's keen interest in U.S. politics to Lindsay's delightful exploration of local cuisine and literature. The journey to Lindsay's parents' cottage adds a layer of excitement, comparing the unique driving challenges of Tortola to those of Barbados, turning a relaxing island vacation into an unexpected thrill ride.
Transitioning from our island escapades, we tackle the nuanced journey of adulting. We explore the pressures and challenges that young adults face today, such as anxiety and financial independence, and how these differ from previous generations. The discussion touches on the non-linear path to maturity, distinguishing between emerging and floundering adults, and the importance of practical life skills like budgeting and time management in navigating adult responsibilities.
Delving deeper into the generational disconnect, we discuss the delayed milestones that characterize modern adulthood. Economic realities have shifted dramatically, making higher education a necessity for many entry-level jobs, and creating a unique set of challenges for today's youth. Through personal anecdotes and reflections, we highlight the importance of mental health awareness, support systems, and the evolving concept of work-life balance. Whether you're a young adult finding your way or a parent supporting one, this episode offers valuable insights into achieving financial independence and understanding what it truly means to be an "adult" in today’s complex world.
Resources and Recommendations:
Books:
"Adulting: How to Become a Grown-up in 468 Easy(ish) Steps" by Kelly Williams Brown.
"The Defining Decade: Why Your Twenties Matter – and How to Make the Most of Them Now" by Meg Jay.
Podcasts:
"The Adulting Podcast" by Jordan Paris.
"Adulting with Michelle Buteau and Jordan Carlos."
Websites and Tools:
Financial planning tools like Mint or YNAB (You Need A Budget).
Career development sites like LinkedIn Learning or Coursera.
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
This is Cleveland.
Speaker 2:This is Lindsay.
Speaker 1:And this is another episode of the Devil. You Don't Know, lindsay, what are we going to be talking about today Adulting, adulting. But first, before we start that very interesting topic that you came up with, what is happening today? Where are we still? We're still in the Cane Garden.
Speaker 2:Bay.
Speaker 1:Still in the Cane Garden Bay Having a really, really, really good time. We got a couple of days left before we head back to NYC and America and I am really trying hard to enjoy my vacation here without looking at politics or news, but it is so fascinating to watch the meltdown of the Democratic Party in the United States.
Speaker 2:I don't really watch any of it, I just read my books and enjoy the beach. And get me to give you like a little bit of updates of the Democratic Party in the United States.
Speaker 1:I don't really watch any of it, I just read my books and enjoy the beach and get me to give you, like a little bit of updates of the shenanigans that are going on, that is, correct.
Speaker 1:The one comment I want to make on it is that sometimes and this is because I'm a fan of fiction and science fiction and fantasy sometimes the most heroic thing that a hero can do is step aside when their time is done. There's a great episode of Star Trek Discovery that not Star Trek Discovery, star Trek Strange New Worlds last season called I believe it was called A Quality of Mercy. Captain Pike refused to step aside when he clearly was not the right choice and caused a future inadvertently that he led to the destruction of the Federation. Because sometimes the most heroic thing that a hero can do is give someone else a chance when they've, when it's clear that their time is up. I totally agree, and that's just on that thing, but that's something that I was thinking about.
Speaker 1:Other than that. You know we're having a great time. A lot of fried food. Can't eat any more fried food. What about you, linz?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't really eat a lot of fried food, and even here I haven't been, but I'm just still obsessed with the salads, with the mango dressings and the papaya dressings. Oh, that's really good yeah.
Speaker 1:But so good. I can't wait to get a hold of some tofu. We've been cooking tofu in the room which dad is down here right now. Lindsay's dad is and folks are down here and he's very critical of that decision and got the whole restaurant to turn against us last night, which was right over tofu.
Speaker 2:Amazing how funny people are about what other people do eat. We actually went to visit my parents the other day they're down here for quite a little while and we went to drive up and meet them and there's no street names and so it's like just go up the hill out of the cane garden bay and then take a sharp left. It's going to look like a one lane road. Just keep going. And then there's a sign that says whatever cottage they're staying in Right or cure or whatever it was, and we drive and we're like can't, can't find the cottage.
Speaker 2:Can't find the cottage. It's a. It is a one lane road, but it's two ways.
Speaker 1:So cars are coming at us and we're having to like pull off into the brush, or and try not to go over the side of the cliff right and then.
Speaker 2:So we went down a ways. You turned around in someone's house, we went back, we passed one of those communal dumpsters which, by the way, we have to take our garbage out today Um, that was a side note. But we turned around and we had to then call my dad because my mom dropped a pin and it was like no location found. So, which is pretty much a good description of where we are right there's no street names, you don't even have garbage collection, you just drop it in a communal dumpster when you go out somewhere. So it was very interesting.
Speaker 1:We did eventually find them in their very cute little cottage down a very steep driveway down a very steep driveway with a, where there was already two cars there and I had to do like a three point turn off the almost off the side of a cliff, to turn the car around Right.
Speaker 2:Exactly so it was. It was very interesting, we did make it and we made it back. I don't know if we'll be going back to their cottage today. Maybe, maybe, maybe not.
Speaker 1:If you, if you're looking for some adventure, one of the interesting things that I, before we even start this topic, um, that Lindsay and I have debated about is Lindsayindsey loves tortola loves I do like it here.
Speaker 1:Um, I also like barbados and I think the difference between the two places is the infrastructure in barbados is completely different than this. Um, and lindsey's not stressed out driving around here. This driving around here stresses me out. It is, if you've ever been to Europe or a place like Greece or any old European city where there's like hills and valleys and the sides of cliff, if you ever watch a James Bond movie and you see James Bond is driving his Corvette or Porsche or whatever. He's driving around these mountains, regions with no guardrails, like everything in the Star Wars universe has these high roads and walkways with no guardrails. That is Tortola, but also think that half of the road is possibly missing, along with potential rocks.
Speaker 2:No, that is definitely scary. I do agree with you there. I mean when, on the way to my parents' house, a huge truck stopped going uphill this is like the story of our life here, I think and the guy must have just put the emergency brake on because something was not right in his truck, so he's out in the middle of a hill it's narrow, by the way Narrow Like messing with the tire and stuff and we had to go around him on a hill into oncoming traffic. We made it, though, and we got to go around him on a hill into oncoming traffic. We made it, though, and we got to a friend and Bob's place and we had a nice little visit with them, and then we rolled back down to the hill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great time, though, great time, and we are having a lovely time here. We got a couple more days left. Um, I would definitely stay here again at the Elm beach suites, um. I know Lindsay doesn't like to say the names of places. That cause she likes to keep them off, like keep them to herself. I do, yeah, but this is a nice little rustic place. I mean, it's not the four seasons, it is not the holiday, it is so clean. How did you like holiday yeah?
Speaker 2:it is. Um, it's probably better than the holiday and it's not the four seasons, no, but you know, when you pay as little as we did, I don't expect to get the Ritz or the Four Seasons, but I definitely. It is definitely better than a Holiday Inn. Yeah, it is clean.
Speaker 1:It is a nice bathroom.
Speaker 2:It's beautifully renovated. Everything is brand new. The furniture is nicer than the furniture we have in New York.
Speaker 1:If you were to pay New York money for this place, this would go for probably $3,000 a month. I would say easily in New York.
Speaker 2:City yes, I agree.
Speaker 1:I agree. I think we didn't even pay that for the week.
Speaker 2:No, but anyway, let's get on to the topic.
Speaker 1:Let's get on to the topic as we talk about the wonderful time that we're having here, but our main topic today is adulting. Lindsay, what inspired you to come up with this episode, adulting?
Speaker 2:Lindsay, what inspired you to come up with this episode? Well, I started to think about this topic because we have the 20 year old who wants to now move back home with us, and we have, you know, the 28 year old who's struggling with some of his adulting as well, and the 20 year old who's been on a different and more challenging path probably most of his life, is struggling now living with his dad because his dad has these really, really big expectations of him to pay an enormous amount of rent and work, two jobs to do it, and and the kid is beside himself and riddled with anxiety. And one of the things that you and I talk about all the time is how just because someone is 18, doesn't mean that they are actually an adult.
Speaker 1:What I found is and not to cut you off and let you finish that thought, but I want to add to it is just because somebody is 54, I've found, does not mean that they're adults, right.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, you're getting up there and I just cleaned up your mess.
Speaker 2:So anyway, I like to call it youthful exuberance but you know, and so it got me thinking and you know, he was so upset and he reached out to us and he said his dad said to him oh, I'm making this much money and look how much you're making Now, meanwhile his dad is like 53. Ok, so there's a big difference and a big career gap, right. And then he said, his dad then compared him to his brother, who's in college, and his sister, who's graduating high school next year and going to college. And he just said he felt like a failure. And I, you know, I said to him you're not, you know, you're just on a different path. You're not, it's not that you are a failure.
Speaker 2:I said, your path is just not linear. And he, you know, he said, yeah, I know, I know I get it, but you know he's like I, I know, I know I get it, but you know he's like I don't know what I want to do. And so then what ends up happening with him is the anxiety becomes so much that he shuts down, right. And then he now is hiding in the room at his dad's, not talking to his dad's, begging us to come and visit and to move in with us. And so this is something that we are kind of handling in our own personal lives now and, you know, I think I really wanted to talk about like what, what is an adult, and like what makes an adult, and you know is is adulting a linear path?
Speaker 1:No, it's not, and one of the and we're going to cover a lot of topics today, which are milestones of adulting, challenges faced and the difference between an emerging and a floundering adult. Right, I would say that Tim Huckleberry is in that in-between state where he's emerging and, at the same time, he's floundering and, at the same time, is floundering, and the idea of this episode is in my own and the other kids, especially my daughter, likes to say adulting is hard, and so what we decided to talk about in this episode, and why we decided to talk about it, is we do know many folks who are not just Tim Huckleberry, age 20, and not be Black Republican in age 28. Or I think Skylar's new name is going to be Heavensent or not Heavensent but there are a lot of folks that we know at various stages in their lives at 30s, 40s, 50s who are still struggling with adult responsibilities. So, that being said, I want to define what adulting is right.
Speaker 1:Adulting is a slang term that refers to the process of engaging in activities and responsibilities that are traditionally associated with adulthood, like paying for dates, paying for rent, paying for childcare. These tasks include some of what I just mentioned, but also are maintaining finances, which I have been really surprised that many of my friends who are my age, who have not been able to maintain their finances, maintaining a household, fulfilling work obligations and taking care of well-being. While this term implies a sense of novelty or challenge, especially for younger adults who are newly taking on these responsibilities, once again I want to say it's surprising how many people who are in their 50s, 60s, 40s I'm all out of sequence here but do not know how to adult Right, I agree and I think I mean I think there's a lot of factors that go into that.
Speaker 2:I agree and I think I mean I think there's a lot of factors that go into that. You know, I think over time as a society we've evolved. I couldn't imagine a time where I was like no, I'm not going to go to college, I'm just going to screw around and stay at home. I mean, my father would have killed me.
Speaker 1:What do you think is different between our generation and not even our generation? Because there are a lot of people that are in our generation which I guess we're millennials. I don't even know, I lose track. I know dad's a baby boomer that struggle, right, that struggle and don't have the sense. We are not millennials. What are we? We're Gen Z.
Speaker 2:We're definitely not millennials. Millennials are like your kids.
Speaker 1:So we're like baby boomers.
Speaker 2:We're the end of the baby boomers. I would say Maybe, Maybe. What do you think? I don't know.
Speaker 1:No, we are. Go ahead, tell me we are Gen X. Oh, gen X. Yeah, that's right, we have forgot we are Gen X. Well, that confusion aside, is I God, you don't act like a millennial. That confusion aside, is I God, you don't act like a millennial. That confusion aside, there are cultural contexts for why people today struggle more than the generations before. It's part of that is economic, and I would also argue too, is that there's a lot, there's a lot more opportunity for leisure, um, that this generation has, then maybe, then, then, then the baby boomers, right, then maybe dad's generation had. Can you, can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think that right over time I just said, like evolution, things evolved right, and we have access to more technology and more, you know, whatever the social media, all of these things that we've talked about and also over time, right, there's been this movement of you, you know, not being able to really discipline your children in the way that you used to be able to. And I'm not saying that like laying a hand on your kids is right, because I would never do that, but I think that, like kids also don't. I don't know if our kids always take us seriously.
Speaker 1:We don't always take ourselves seriously.
Speaker 2:That's true, but you know, I do think that it's you know it's it's that it's become, it's become harder, and I do think that it's you know it's it's that it's become, it's become harder, and I do think economics is a huge piece of it, right?
Speaker 1:Because it's almost impossible to be independent coming out of college now, yes, and that is one of the key differences that is has led to this phenomena of folks not being able to take care of themselves is back when, when our parents were young yeah, you could. You didn't even have to go to college. You could come out of high school. You could get a textile job. My dad talked about that like when he was, when he, in the 1950s, he used to work in the fashion district in New York like pushing pushing carts. You didn't need a college degree to sustain yourself. The economy was completely different. Now economic factors have changed it, so that you know people are having to stay home longer.
Speaker 2:Well, there's also a requirement for a college degree now in many jobs that never required it before.
Speaker 1:A barista at Starbucks.
Speaker 2:Well, how about like an administrative assistant? Right, when I came out of college, I became an admin and a lot of the women there that I worked with went to like the Catherine Gibbs, like the secretarial school, and that's what women used to do, right. And then they would go and get a job Now in order to answer someone's phones and check their emails and schedule meetings, ok, which, by the way, the queen mom could do. Yeah, right, you need to have a bachelor's degree Right, which, by the way, the queen mom could do. Right, you need to have a bachelor's degree Right. And this is this has made it also a challenge, because I think that really, how many people know who they are and what they want at 17 or 18 when they graduate high school?
Speaker 2:And I did tell uh, you know, tim, that I said I, I said my parents had a lot of aspirations for me and I didn't really follow them. I followed my own path and I'm very successful. But I said to him you just have to get on a path. It doesn't matter if the path is college or a trade school or, you know, a combination of taking a few classes and working at a job, but, like, you've got to get on a path, and I think you know we've talked about this as well. The more that he's talked down to by you know where in his living situation, the more down he is on himself and then the more of a failure he feels like. And then I think what his dad is not understanding is that he doesn't have the motivation to get up and do anything, because none of what he does is good enough for his dad.
Speaker 1:Have you encountered that, not only with uh, uh with Tim Huckleberry, uh with um, but also with clients?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. I think a lot of people don't know who they are. Right, we talked about that last week. I have the client who struggles so much and she hates her job and it's like you know, you're not going to be happy in life if you're doing something that doesn't feed your soul, right, and it's you know, a lot of times we have to go on a journey to figure those things out. I'm very lucky that I learned at a young age that I was very much into meditation and breathing and yoga, because those became core components of my life. That helped me be okay with other people not necessarily being in agreement with what I do and who I am, but I also feel like they lend really nicely to a career as a therapist, right, because it keeps me grounded. I have a lot of tools to share with my clients and you know I but I also am okay with going off the path and not really following what was wanted of me, and I think a lot of people are afraid to do that.
Speaker 1:And I want to talk about. I want to use um, I want to use Tim Huckleberry and what's going on with dad as part of what is an example of why adulting or there is this schism between generations. Right, when we think about our generation and our parents' generation, they had early milestones. Right, there was marriage and family. People got married probably not too shortly after high school. People were able to own homes before they were 30. I know, I know most people. I want to look up the statistic, but I do believe like right now, most people can't afford home ownership or aren't able to buy homes, especially with the incredible cost of real estate, until nearly damn damn 30, damn 40. In some cases, until nearly damn 30, damn 40, in some cases.
Speaker 1:Stable employment Millennials, if you know, statistically they go from job to job, right, yes, back in our generation, back in our parents' days, people stayed at a job for maybe the whole course of their career, whereas millennials and Gen Z those folks, if we look at Heaven Sent, she's got a different job like every six or seven months, oh Lord, sometimes not even that long, yeah, and she's not unusual, right? Millennials and Gen Z folks, because they have less, more leisure time and less economic stability than we did, just change job to job and also education. You know, people back when mom and dad were younger and when my mom and dad were younger, just got jobs straight out of high school and you could survive and just things were more affordable. There were fixed gender roles, there was more community and religious influence, there was affordability and there was job security and because of these things, people were forced almost out of the nest early as I graduated.
Speaker 2:I became an admin while I went to grad school and I was able to move out. But, oh my God, you die. My first apartment in Brooklyn was a two bedroom, two bath apartment for sixteen hundred dollars a month in Cobble Hill. You couldn't even find that on Henry Street. I know you would never find. I mean, that same apartment is probably four or five thousand dollars a month now.
Speaker 1:So what's caused this, this, this phenomenon? Um, in this modern perception, are delayed milestones, right, and so there was a great article I think I read it many years ago, I believe it was in the new york times that compared a 28 year old from 1960 to a 28 year old man. It was a article on the problem with men. Right, it was an article that was talking I can't remember the name of I'll find it if I can refer to it in the notes but it was saying, like why it was the rise of the man child. That was it. It was a, it was an article called the rise of the man child and it unfairly I want to say unfairly bashed men, saying that men are not mature because they have more leisure time hey, there was no X-Boxes, there was no PlayStation fives, there was no Internet back in 1960. And because it was saying that men have more leisure time that they're not encouraged to take on these manly roles.
Speaker 1:Quote, unquote. Manly roles Maybe? Yeah, I would agree with that partly, but they are literally delayed milestones, right, marriage and family. Many individuals are starting families later and not usually getting married until their late thirties or late twenties or mid thirties, and a lot in many cases. I know a lot of dudes who are single. I can think of one guy I'll call him babe I always talk about babe because it rhymes with his real name that is in his fifties and thinks that he is going to find and is still waiting for a young 20 year old to to marry and catch because he feels stills that he's young and viral and does not realize that when he's in the club he looks like the old guy in the club.
Speaker 2:Well, on a side note, he is never going to be married because he is so strongly, you know, in his opinions, and nobody else is ever right. It's his way or no way, and he's always right, and so why would anybody ever want to deal with that?
Speaker 1:So he's going to be single forever? Yeah, Because I always say too, if you get to that age and you've never had a successful long term relationship and I'm talking like a long term relationship there's something wrong. Yeah, but there's a lot of. There's a lot of men and women, and that's why I said that article the rise of the man child was unfair, because there are a lot of men and women today who have delayed milestones. Right, Home ownership. Home ownership is delayed because it is often unattainable. We're looking at homes because we eventually want to leave New York and then, where you can find a house like we were looking at the Alabama shore the other day where you can find a house like we were looking at the Alabama shore the other day where you can find a house for a reasonable price there are no jobs there, you know. So homeownership is either unattainable or delayed.
Speaker 2:Right. And let's talk about Naples, florida, really, where we would love to go, right. I mean, you get, the housing market is like New York, but the job market is not right and it's so I think. I think it's just. It's that, like, over the years, things have changed and I don't think it's all for the positive. Yes, right, and people want this instant gratification all the time, yeah, yeah. And then when they don't get it, they're not satisfied, and I think the other thing too is that people don't want to take any feedback.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know this might be an unpopular one, but when I researched it, part of the delayed milestones are the idea of individualism. There's a stronger focus on personal fulfillment and individual paths, with less pressure to conform the traditional timelines of societal expectations, which means that people are spending and it's not necessarily a terrible thing, but it means that people are spending a longer time figuring themselves out right, whereas somebody maybe 30 years ago would have figured themselves out by 26 or 27, because they finished school, because they'd been working for a while, because they might've been in their third kid, they knew who they were. This society that we have today, this idea of individualism and self-exploration, means that it's OK, but it means also, by default, that people are a lot more selfish and less cooperative and less willing to give up, like in Babe's case and in other friends that we know are less likely to change their lifestyle to become a family with someone.
Speaker 2:Right, right. I was just thinking something and I lost my train of thought, but You're absolutely right, and I was going to say, too, that not all of these things have been positive for us. Right, like feminism? Yes, I think it's fine if women want to work, right, but this great feminist movement, I think, is what has also caused the economy to become a part of what it is, because not all women want to work.
Speaker 1:Yes, Jason Pargin, who's one of my favorite authors, talks about that, that there's a whole segment.
Speaker 1:He's not anti-feminist, um, but he said there's a whole segment of women out there that would prefer to be home, that prefer to be homemakers. Oh, I would love to be a housewife. I always tell you that. But the economy after the, after the gender revolution, or after the economy, has shifted in one, because we live in a capitalist country. The economy has shifted into one. Who's like oh, if the whole family can, let's make money off of the whole family, right? And so in many cases, this a flexible idea of gender roles, and once again, I'm not saying that men are greater than women and women are greater than men. It's like I often use the example that men and women are both precious materials. Women are gold and maybe men are iron, or maybe it's vice versa Maybe women are iron and maybe men are gold. But gold and iron have two different purposes, right, and it doesn't mean just because they're both metal means that you could use them in the same way.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think, yeah, I think it's just there's so many different things that are going on and I think that you know people also now don't want to stay with something if they're not happy with it, and and so I think that's what happens in the case of Heaven Sent is she's like I don't like what happened today, I'm going to quit. And it's like, oh, ok, because people also don't know how to hear feedback. Yes, right, they can't have any feedback and they don't have a set of communication skills to say like hey, the reason that this job isn't working out for me is because I feel really overwhelmed with the workload you've given me. Instead, she's like bye, I'm quitting, this isn't for me, it's. I mean, do you remember she quit because it was too much work.
Speaker 1:It was too much work.
Speaker 2:I was like it's your job, my job is so much work. I would love to quit, but it's just not possible. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, especially when you work in a position where we mostly where you mostly work for yourself. I'm transitioning into working for myself more and more, but, yeah, we just don't have that opportunity. I want to go back to this flexible gender roles before we move into the next piece, which is with a greater emphasis on more than gender equality. More than gender equality, right, because my notes say gender equality, but with a greater emphasis on multiple genders. It is leading to more confusion. It is leading to people just figuring out much longer who they are, when you really do not have time to figure out necessarily who you are.
Speaker 2:But why do you think that is? I think it's because in the case of like, let's say, of tim right, like he said to me, like my dad wants me to be what he is, yeah, right, but that's not who he is, and I just don't think he knows who he is and he doesn't have the opportunity to explore that, and that is what becomes. The problem is now, you don't know what you want to do, but you know college isn't for you, or at least it isn't for you right now, and you hate your minimum wage job. But, like now, you need to work all the time, right? How many times do I tell you that I wish I didn't have to work so much, because I would like to have the time to do things like. People don't have time to figure out who they are and what they want.
Speaker 1:And I want to make the argument back at you that oftentimes that is because of cultural and social influences. Right, when we think about the more stringent and I'm not necessarily saying the good old days were good, maybe it needs to be a mix of the two but when there was a more stringent path, a more direct path to from birth to death, those people were less confused. They knew what they wanted, they knew what they needed to do, and oftentimes we look back and all those were terrible times. But were they really? I mean, there's a lot less mental health issues and part of what is going on today that is leading to people delayed adulthood or staying emerging adults and then becoming a floundering adult is, I want to say, is part of technology and social media. There's an influence. There's influence out there where people are not focused on themselves. They're not focused really inward, paradoxically, but they're trying to find themselves through other people, through other people's experiences, and not really focused on their own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I completely agree with you, and it just made me think of where we were and we're going to talk about this in another episode. But we spent a couple of days in Anagata, right, I mean, there's no jobs in Anagata, but there's no poverty, right, the people. One of the most beautiful things about the British Virgin Islands is that the people own the land. The people own the land. The government doesn't own any land here. The people own all of the land, so they get to choose what they want to do with it. They have homes, they live. Yes, they work Some of them I'm sure some don't work, but they don't have the stressors that we have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, one of the things we. We talked to a young lady who grew up, who spent her whole life on Anagata and I asked her you know what was it like? Was it boring? And she was like no, I actually love you know, knowing that there's only like 200 other people on this Island. I know officially it says if you look up Anagata it says it has an official population in the 2024 census of 450 people. But when we asked of the actual residents on the island, everyone was like nah, there's only like 200 or so people.
Speaker 2:And they all live in one area called the settlement. Remember the gentleman who rented us the car? He used to live here in Tortola and he said he went there for peace and tranquility. Right, so it goes to show, right, how everybody's perception of something is different.
Speaker 1:And I said to you, imagine if these people came to New York City they would be on like such a sensory overload also can overwhelm individuals as they navigate adulthood right when you're trying to figure out you're still trying to figure out yourself, you're still trying to figure out your sexuality, you're still trying to figure out your role, and now you're just overwhelmed. It's almost like the Bible with the garden of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, where kids are being forced to make adult choices or make adult decisions very early on and never really get to enjoy childhood. And that childhood that's never really get to be enjoyed is now extending into adulthood.
Speaker 2:And I would imagine that this is such a huge contributor to the mental health crisis as well that we have with adolescents.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, I agree. I agree. Part of one of the good things, though, about our culture that I can definitely say about, you know, mom and dad's culture, but both of our parents is that we do have a greater awareness of mental health and we do realize that there is a recognition on achieving, as a recognition of relying on support and being more supportive of our young people as they transition into adulthood.
Speaker 2:Oh, I totally agree with that, and I think that that's the struggle that Tim is having now is that you know he doesn't feel supported and he doesn't feel like his dad can supply the support that he needs, but you know he also, like, has to do something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and you know, and that's what I think his struggle is right now, yeah, and one of the other good things and like I said I don't want to say it's all doom and gloom for this generation is there is a, there is more of a work life balance, Right when our folks were like kid, you work hard and you die.
Speaker 1:You know, the kids are like no, I don't want to die, working hard, I want to live, and so there is a little bit of a change in that, which I don't agree with. Everything have you said it's done in the last? Oh, lord knows.
Speaker 1:But she's finally got to a place where she found herself Right, and I do think maybe Well, maybe, but I do think Tim Huckleberry, once he is back within the fold, will find himself. I do have faith that he will find himself. But I worry about my friends. Bave, one Night Stand, and that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a moniker. But I do worry about some of my friends that are older and still haven't figured it out yet. Right, and, and that's what, and that's what the concern is.
Speaker 1:Right, um, mike Bayes then used to often say and Mike Bayes then was a host of a radio host in the New York city area uh, for many years would come would say that people that women are complaining about, men, um, that are in their late thirties, early forties and still wearing like Timberlands and still wearing like, just still wearing like jeans and Timberlands, and and and trying to like and throwbacks and trying to like capture a youth that is long gone. Right Before he died and he was very controversial figure, kevin Samuels used to say hey, midlife is 35, because most of y'all, with your diets and stuff, ain't going to live to 70. And ironically, kevin Samuels, who looked like he was pretty fit, died of a heart attack at 56. I think around 56. But the point is, is that you have to, as the scriptures say, when you get to a certain age, be you a man or a woman, you should no longer be doing childlike pursuits Right, and you have to figure out what it is that makes you an adult before you are a floundering adult.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely agree with that. But it's like, what do we have to do to help people find that? Right, and I think that's why we're willing to let him come home so that we can help him, because he needs that support, right. So it's like we need to do something different, right, we also need to evolve now in the way of helping people, because why do people have mental health issues? Because they are not feeling nurtured from a very young age and their needs are not being met Right, and so then they develop these feelings of unworthiness which eventually turn in to mental health struggles, right. Self-esteem problems, no self-worth, anxiety, depression, personality issues right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and so some of the challenges of adulting and, like I said, we hey, we don't have all the answers. We sit here and we discuss these things amongst ourselves and hopefully you are having these discussions at home after you listen to the show. But there is a real challenges to be an adult. And there's financial independence, right, which is budgeting, saving, investing. There's time management. There's balancing work, social life and personal time. There is mental health dealing with stress, dealing with anxiety, dealing with burnout. And there's building and maintaining relationships, which are both romantic, friendship and professional networks.
Speaker 1:And, unfortunately, with so many of the distractions that we have going on today, it is very, very difficult for people to navigate their own emerging adulthood with all the things that need to get balanced. I have friends that are in their fifties, who are, who are now looking for second, third jobs because of unexpected, you know, financial situations that occurred. You know part of it is, yes, this the society we live in sucks right that we, what we pay A lot of people live beyond their means, but that's a whole other story.
Speaker 1:Yes, and a lot of people live beyond their means, and that's a whole other story. Yes, and a lot of folks live beyond their means. One of the things that the black republican in in florida complains about is how difficult life is is how difficult, how, how uh, unaffordable things are and there are, but it shouldn't be for him, so that's his own stuff to work out.
Speaker 1:Yeah and there are solutions to it, but it also goes back to adulting, right. You know, one of my cousins, who does do very well for himself, says the biggest thing, his biggest complaint about growing up in the projects in Brooklyn in the 1990s was not social justice, was not that he needed protection from the police. He needed his parents to teach him financial independence, and he said that he learned that later on as an adult, but wishes that he would have learned it as a kid and feels that, yes, while civil rights and social justice are important, but that kids really need to learn functional, practical skills as a kid and not all of these ideologies that they're teaching us instead, that there are things that, as an adult, you should be able to figure out on your own, such as your sexuality. But what's more important to learn as a kid is finances, is budgeting, is time management.
Speaker 2:Well, but also right. I think that people you know learn about their sexuality earlier. But I think there's like, sometimes, a fear, right, if being able to express that or be that because of, you know, lack of acceptance from a parent. Right, we have a child who is gay and that is not an issue for us.
Speaker 1:No, not at all, At all Right and you know, never did, always.
Speaker 2:you know there was always an idea that that was a possibility, right, just from knowing him and raising him, and you know and that and that is what it is. But, like you have to also support your kids, right, because that's the biggest piece of it is support.
Speaker 1:But, but. I want to stop you for a second and ask you a question. But have we lost focus on what true support for kids are?
Speaker 2:Yes, I I a hundred percent right. Support is being able to accept people the way that they are. That is what it is. Don't you know I? And what do I always say to the kids? I wish I could control you into making a choice that I know would work for you, but that's not my job, my job as a parent, right? My parent is, and I said to Tim the other day, like my job as a parent is to you know, see you back onto a path to support you, to love you and to like, help you to learn the tools and give you the tools so that you can become independent.
Speaker 1:So for someone like my cousin, who laments the fact that his parents taught him more social issues and not financial issues and not time management, isn't he loaded? Yeah, well, he's loaded now. So I want to ask you like what? What would be the happy medium? Like what should we, as parents, be doing to set our children up for success, so that they're not floundering adults? What are some of your suggestions?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's. The first thing is it starts from a really young age is to like just listen to your kids, respect, right. You don't have to understand their choices, but you should respect them and help them to pursue what they want to pursue. I think that's the biggest piece is, from a very young age, nurture them, take care of them. Listen, right. Listening is one of the most important things as a therapist, or even yourself. What do these people want? They want someone to listen.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:They just want someone to listen. And that's why people come to therapy, because if they had the support in their family and they could be who they were and there wasn't criticism and judgment and you know, this control of oh, you need to do this and you need to do that Right, Then people wouldn't come to us.
Speaker 1:As a, as a therapist, as a, as a, as a, as a therapist or somebody. Um, I'm pre-licensed, but as a pre-licensed therapist, I often tell and I have a lot of clients, often tell my clients your best conversation of the week should not be with me, right, it should be with your mom or your dad. It should be with you, with your spouse or your lover, and to your point, I do not think that many parents know how to be supportive of their children.
Speaker 2:Right, and when you say that right, that your conversations shouldn't only be with me, right, your best conversations, your best communication, I think the part of it is it's so hard for clients to take these tools and go and have conversations because, again, of that fear of rejection or criticism or judgment. Right, and I think about a client specifically who had a lot of issues with her dad and she, you know, I and I just I think it's it spills over into all of these other parts of her life where she doesn't want to date. Her mother complains about her dad all the time, and so now she's like I realized my mom complained so much about my dad that it's hard for me to look at my dad in a different way. Right, and so it's. We have to just be able to have open communication. We need to know who to talk to and who not to talk to, and we have to just listen and support, listen and support, listen and support.
Speaker 1:So, as we come in, as we're coming up on our final segment here, I want to talk about the difference between emerging versus floundering adults and how we as parents can help our kids get on, or the people in our lives get on that path to success right? So here are the characteristics of an emerging adult. They are pursuing personal growth and learning. They are establishing a career or continuing education. They have a strong supportive network. They don't have people in their lives that judge them. Um, the emerging adults also have learned.
Speaker 1:As my cousin really, really, really specifically pointed out and I do talk to my clients about this is they have developed financial literacy and independence. That is key. You cannot be happy in a marriage there's I'm going to say it like this, there's no romance without finance and I really don't need to say anything else on that topic. But developing financial literacy and independence and some examples of that, as a parent or as a friend or someone who might be realizing like oh man, I'm kind of floundering are setting SMART goals, seeking mentorship and guidance. And, once again, one of the things I tell my clients I'm not a financial consultant.
Speaker 1:If you are having issues that are beyond me, please go seek, speak to an expert in those fields. This is what I'm good at. I'm not even good at all parts of therapy. There are other parts of therapy and there's other things that I don't know about. But seek the mentorship and guidance of someone that has already succeeded. Steve Harvey talks about that. That a lot of times, folks in this generation are trying to walk their own path, when all you have to do is follow the person that already succeeded before you. And then the last piece of this of an emerging adult is investing in self-care and mental health.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, that's a huge one Right. Health, yeah, oh, absolutely, that's a huge one Right. And also, really, I think I was just thinking of something when you said that too, is that as an adult, right? You, you know you don't get to choose family, but you can choose your friends and your support network. And that was something that my client had said when she had talked about her parents and she said you know, I realize that they're my friends, she has a very tight friend group, are more like family to me, right, right, and that's where she gets her support from and that's where she bounces her ideas off of.
Speaker 1:I think there's a great Drew Holcomb song that you like called Find your People. Find your People. I love that song. It's like the ones that you need to. Oh, we won't be hearing that next week, but if you're floundering and we're going to talk about characteristics of floundering is maybe you need to find your people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. They say when you find your people, you find yourself, and that's something I always say, too is something that I struggle with where we live in our community is that I don't have a sangha, a sangha of you know, people who meditate and breathe and who are vegan, and I really it's very hard for me to connect in our community.
Speaker 1:And I want to talk about the characteristics of floundering adults as we're coming up on time here is you know if your child is floundering or if you are an adult and found floundering, if you are still struggling to find direction and purpose, if you're experiencing frequent job changes or unemployment, if you are very financially unstable, which is really hard in the current economy, and but you do not have to be poor with your money management. Right, you do not have to live outside of your means. Right, you do not have to run up that credit card, you do not. What used to amaze me when I was a FedEx guy working in the projects and we seen it here even in Tortola that house that's crumbling up the beach. The house is falling apart. Everybody's got brand new cars, which is insane.
Speaker 2:It's like there's a brand new Mustang in the in in in. It's like dude, but you oh the house has like all cracks.
Speaker 1:It's probably from the hurricane from the hurricane, but I saw the same thing when I lived, when I was a FedEx guy, as you would see people living in the projects or in substandard conditions and they had Lexuses and and like and like just all these fancy cars, and it just used to blow my mind Feeling isolated. The black Republican in Florida talks about that a lot. Right, but I think he's found his people. I hope they're good people, but I do think he's found a little community of his own. Another thing the black Republican talks about is being overwhelmed by responsibility, difficulty setting and sticking to goals. He is good at that, but I do have younger clients that are very scattered and they're trying to do everything everywhere all at once and then not acknowledging mental health struggles also leads to floundering.
Speaker 2:Yep, I completely agree. I mean, I think you said it all there.
Speaker 1:So what are some as an expert here as we, as we, as we wrap up, what are some insights and tips you would tell folks if you're, if you are floundering adult or if you're worried that your kids are going to be floundering. What are some things that we you as a parent can help, or as a friend, or as your own?
Speaker 2:individual. Well, we could use Tim as an example, right? I said to him look at your long term. What do you want, long term? Once you look at that, then you work to think how do I get there? Right, because you're not going to get there tomorrow. So what does it look like a month from now, three months from now, six months from now, a year from now? Also right.
Speaker 2:I said to him, when he's feeling so anxious, I had to look at him one day and say, well, who do you have in your life that can help you with that? Right. And he had a perfectly fine therapist that he has a great relationship with that. He was just not seeing. Perfectly fine therapist that he has a great relationship with that. He was just not seeing. And I said we will pay if you will go.
Speaker 2:And and he's been consistent now, right, because I said, if you want to feel better, you have to do something to feel better. Right. And also I said to him like structure and routine, getting away from the video games, but also, you know, giving yourself an hour or two on them but also doing other things. Right. And so now he's been reading. I sent him some books and now he's reading again and he's been going outside and swimming and going to the skate park and working. You know a little bit, but he's doing different things and also, just you know, reaching out to support. You know finding your support, reaching out and not being afraid to rely on people when you're struggling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't say better than that. I want to just offer some resources and recommendations for those of you who and I'll definitely be in the show notes is the book adulting how to become a grown up in four hundred and sixty eight easier steps by Kelly Williams Brown. The defining decade why your 20s matter and how to Make the Most of them Now by Meg Joy. If you're listening to this podcast, I'd also recommend some other podcasts. There's the Adulting Podcast by Jordan Paris and also Adulting with Michelle Boutrois Boutrois I'm not saying that I don't know Boutro, maybe Boutro and Jordan Carlos, and that's pretty much it on this topic in this episode, if you like. I said, there will be stuff in the notes if you want to find out more.
Speaker 2:Lindsay, do you have anything to add? No, I don't think so, do I? I don't think so.
Speaker 1:And, with that being said, this has been Cleveland and this is Lindsay getting ready to go to the beach. Getting ready to go to the beach. Getting ready to go to the beach, and this has been another episode of the Devil. You Do Not Know. If you like what you heard. Please rate and review us on iTunes, Spotify or whatever platform you listen to us on. Dad listens to us on.
Speaker 2:Spotify when we're not being naughty.
Speaker 1:All right, let's go to the beach and we're going to go to the beach. All right, let's go to the beach and we're gonna go to the beach. And please rate and review us and tell your friends to like, to like and, hopefully, subscribe. Thank you everyone, thank you.