The Devil You Don’t Know
By the Time I Get to Anegada: Finding Joy in Simplicity
Celebrating life’s simple pleasures, we recount our heartfelt adventure in the British Virgin Islands and beyond. From a memorable 50th birthday bash in the Finger Lakes to meeting new friends on the peaceful island of Anegada, we share how these experiences have deepened our appreciation for uncomplicated, joyful living. Join us as we contrast island residents' serene, undisturbed lifestyle with the often chaotic, stress-filled environments familiar to many of us.
Can living a minimalist lifestyle really improve your mental health? We believe it can. In this episode, we tackle issues like materialism, modern relationship dynamics, and financial pressure, sharing personal stories and wisdom from figures like Jimmy Buffett and Bob Marley.
Finally, we delve into the spiritual and practical aspects of simplifying life. We discuss financial prudence, budgeting, and the stress of living beyond one’s means. Drawing on quotes from various religions and personal anecdotes, we emphasize the value of contentment and the richness of inner peace over material wealth. With practical tips on decluttering and mindfulness, we hope to inspire you to focus on what truly matters and cherish life’s most important moments. Listen for an insightful and heartfelt conversation on living simply and enhancing your mental well-being.
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
Celebrating life’s simple pleasures, we recount our heartfelt adventure in the British Virgin Islands and beyond. From a memorable 50th birthday bash in the Finger Lakes to meeting new friends on the peaceful island of Anegada, we share how these experiences have deepened our appreciation for uncomplicated, joyful living. Join us as we contrast island residents' serene, undisturbed lifestyle with the often chaotic, stress-filled environments familiar to many of us.
Can living a minimalist lifestyle really improve your mental health? We believe it can. In this episode, we tackle issues like materialism, modern relationship dynamics, and financial pressure, sharing personal stories and wisdom from figures like Jimmy Buffett and Bob Marley.
Finally, we delve into the spiritual and practical aspects of simplifying life. We discuss financial prudence, budgeting, and the stress of living beyond one’s means. Drawing on quotes from various religions and personal anecdotes, we emphasize the value of contentment and the richness of inner peace over material wealth. With practical tips on decluttering and mindfulness, we hope to inspire you to focus on what truly matters and cherish life’s most important moments. Listen for an insightful and heartfelt conversation on living simply and enhancing your mental well-being.
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
This is Cleveland.
Speaker 2:This is Lindsay.
Speaker 1:And this is another episode of the Devil. You Don't Know, lindsay, what are we going to be talking about today? Simplicity of life, I think, one of the. I think, as we draw close to this final day of vacation, I know so sad, so sad, which is also my birthday. So we will be doing some Happy birthday, thank you. We won't say what today is, because I do not like people knowing my birthday um.
Speaker 1:the last time I had a big birthday, so if you want to know, just ask and I'll tell you yeah, but do not ask because I don't want people to know, because the last time I had a big birthday celebration, uh, it was jesus, it was probably about 12 12 years ago wow, that's so messed up.
Speaker 2:And my buddy roman that is so messed up. What? Because I don about 12, 12 years ago Wow, that's so messed up. And my buddy Roman that is so messed up Cause I don't like celebrating 12 years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say it's about 12 years ago, wow.
Speaker 2:I just want I'm going to bring your attention to something. I threw you a huge party two years ago at a bar in the neighborhood. Oh, but wow, that's so messed up. Wait a minute. Wait a minute, that is so messed up, you don't.
Speaker 1:you're not letting me finish my story.
Speaker 2:Last year I took you to the Finger Lakes.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're not letting me finish the story?
Speaker 2:No, I'm not going to, because I can't believe that you said that was the last big celebration you had.
Speaker 1:Let me finish the story, because I do have some vodka and orange juice and so I might've misspoken.
Speaker 2:So the last big celebration, that I ago pre Lindsay, pre Lindsay fellas, people was with my friend Roman who took me out, and I love Roman, oh my God, I love.
Speaker 1:Roman, and my friend Roman took me out with a bunch of folks from work and, um, I didn't get home until like three o'clock in the morning and I remember, uh, tyler, who is now 20. How old is Tyler now?
Speaker 2:He's 24.
Speaker 1:24. Tyler was about 12 years old.
Speaker 2:Clearly. I have to remember everything in this relationship?
Speaker 1:Yeah, obviously you do, but thank you, that's what you married me for.
Speaker 2:I guess that nice party I had for you wasn't so memorable. I said pre-Lindsey.
Speaker 1:But when I came home, Tyler, who was about 11, going on 12, was like it was three o'clock in the morning. I didn't realize. All the kids were waiting up for me, it was the travails of a single dad and grandma. And Tyler said to me as I stumbled through the door that must've been some birthday. And it was like, yeah, it was. But Lindsay has been so kind and let me correct myself, so Lindsay has been so kind in the last couple of years of being together for my we had a huge celebration when I was 49 at at Artie's on city Island and thank you, Lindsay and Laura and Spiro and everybody for coming out and helping and putting that together. Uh, Laura and Spiro, for generously offering up your restaurant that day. Uh, so that me and my knuckleheaded friends had some specialty cocktails for you.
Speaker 2:It was a lot of planning for me and Laura.
Speaker 1:Yes, I want to, let me be thankful. So I'm going to go back and be thankful. I want to be thankful for the 50th birthday in the Finger Lakes that Lindsay organized and we met the wonderful Simon Miranda. And we brought some friends up and we brought some friends up and we've talked about that and now, for my 51st birthday, we are wrapping up our final day.
Speaker 2:Of a two-week vacation.
Speaker 1:Of a two-week vacation In the British Virgin Islands In the British Virgin Islands and met new friends, met Tabari and we've talked about Elvett.
Speaker 2:I could totally stay another week or two though, yeah, I could.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know the old friends, uh um, from the indigo beach bar oh, vishal, vishal forgot to see old friends.
Speaker 2:Daddy magic, yeah, daddy magic was putting on a show with the elm tones. Yeah, what, what a great trip we've had. I mean, this is really, you know, when you come here. I said to somebody yesterday and I think this is kind of when you come here I said to somebody yesterday and I think this is kind of what prompted this episode was I said to somebody yesterday how simple life is here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what really prompted it and I'll let you go back was Anna Goddard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I said to you yesterday. We're swimming in the ocean and I said let's talk about simplicity, right, because living a simple life like these, this is all these people know. Yeah, right, and it's. They are so happy. There's really like no turmoil. Have you seen one person here who's like in a bad mood and acting?
Speaker 1:nasty? No, not one, and I don't want to romanticize it because, yes, there are places around the world that there are low SES and the folks do suffer, but it's also those same places are really have a lot of Western influence there and I don't think the West influences some of these islands as much as they do other islands. I'm looking at you, jamaica.
Speaker 2:No, I think really, you know. So the idea for this episode came because we did spend two days on Anagata. So Anagata is a very remote island. It was about what? About? An hour and 15 minute ferry ride from Tortola. Tortola is the main island in the British Virgin Islands and Anagata is a. It's actually not a tiny island. It's. It's the second largest of the British Virgin Islands, but it is really not very inhabited and developed and it's very flat and about 200 people live there year round.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, if you Google it it says 450, but if you ask the residents on the Island, they will all tell you it's only about 200 or so people.
Speaker 2:Right, and the only thing really to do there is to relax and hike to the highest point, which I couldn't figure out.
Speaker 1:Where? Where is the highest point?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure, cause it was so flat. It might've been where our cottage was, cause we had to walk up a slight incline, maybe about 15 steps. But this, that was what gave me the idea for this episode, because we were there and someone had moved from Tortola, which is the most populated the capital of the British Virgin Islands is Roadtown, in Tortola, which even Tortola is not a very populated island, which even Tortola is not a very populated island, but the, when we went to Anagata, the gentleman who rented us our car, michael, he said he moved 15 years ago from Tortola to Anagata for peace and tranquility and I thought, wow, you needed to leave another island to go to go for your peace and tranquility, right and when we were coming back.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, I should say that the ferry only goes three days a week to anagata. It goes monday, wednesday and friday.
Speaker 1:It goes once in the morning and it comes back at night and if you don't have business in tortola, they might ask you to get off right and that was what happened on our way home.
Speaker 2:So many people were waiting at the ferry dock so we stayed two nights there. We stayed in the lob lolly bay Cottages. Loblolly Bay is this beautiful, very deserted beach and this gentleman, kenneth, who is 90, he's originally from Anagata. He worked his whole career in New York. He's 90 now. When he retired he went back to his property and he built these cottages, which are adorable, like completely renovated beautiful cottages on this really desolate strip of sand, and each cottage has a little pathway out to the beach. You have privacy. You have two chairs there waiting for you.
Speaker 2:Anagata is surrounded by like an 18 mile horseshoe shaped reef, so once the water breaks at the reef, from the shore out to the reef it's really calm, so you can go out. There's no fear of, you know, getting pulled into an undertow or anything happening. But we went there and you could drive around the island. There's one road. They started to pave it years ago and then they just gave up and they said you just drive in the sand there. The sand is packed down in the center of the island and there's one road around and the people there, they know nothing else and they just love living there. Right they have. The Wi-Fi is horrible, the cell service is nonexistent and the island is just really deserted and these people know nothing else, but they are so happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true, and I think what really blew our minds yesterday and maybe I'm making up a fiction in my head was the amish guy on the on the beach oh yeah, but let's go back a minute to talk about how they have these random power outages. Oh, the random power and anagata.
Speaker 2:The power just comes off and on and off and on. So, like one day, we were at a beach bar hanging out, we'd been doing like a little bit of hopping around from one place to another because these places are big sailing destinations and so popular, popular spots there. And we were at a place and we'd had a drink and we were getting ready to move on to the next, but we couldn't because the power went out, so we, we couldn't pay our bill and so nobody could make a blended drink. And you, just everybody, just hung out and sat down and they're like well, we just got to wait for it to come back on. Could be 40 minutes, could be four hours, not sure.
Speaker 2:But everybody was cool with it, right, there was no complaint right and it's, it's this like lifestyle and this way of life that I think a lot of Americans need to get down with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now let's talk about Jebediah really quickly.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that was so interesting.
Speaker 1:So here we are, and I'm I'm just saying I'm pretty sure the guy was Amish, right, Because here we are in the middle.
Speaker 2:Let's also say we have a son who goes to school in the Amish country, so we've spent quite a bit of time in the Amish country. And we usually can identify, we're very familiar with what the Amish people wear and what they look like.
Speaker 1:And so this Amish dude just appears on the beach, but he couldn't have been Amish.
Speaker 2:Maybe I don't know, because the Amish don't take the transportation.
Speaker 1:Maybe he took a rowboat here, maybe he was a Mennonite, maybe I don't know, but what was when we asked Carleen at Glenn's Beachside Bar and Cafe, which, if you ever are in Tortola, glenn is blowing up? Give him, my man Glenn, some business.
Speaker 2:Don't throw your garbage in his dumpster.
Speaker 1:Do not mess with his umbrellas and do not try to sneak back to his. I'm not saying that I did this, but do not try to sneak your garbage out at Glenn's at night, because he is still there. But what was amazing about this dude is he comes out and we asked Carleen she's like have you ever seen him before? She's like no, I've never seen him. I thought he was with those guys and they were like he's not with us. But what was funny about him is his meal was.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what he ate. It was like $17 and 95 cents or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he told Carleen. He's like you're lucky because that's all I have.
Speaker 2:He's like.
Speaker 1:I got 17. I got $18 on me and you're in luck today. But talk about being so. What was he just not going to pay for his me? I mean he wasn't concerned, but he was having a good old time on the beach, Right, yeah? And and it made me think of also simplicity, because when we go to Lancaster, oftentimes what we say when we're out in Lancaster, these Amish folks live so simply we must look like the maniacs to them.
Speaker 2:Well and they live so simply amongst the people around them who don't right, because it's there's a huge Amish population there, but there's also a really vibrant downtown scene and there's colleges and universities and things like that, and so I think you know what.
Speaker 2:What really struck me was when we were coming home from Anagata if we can go back a minute was we had to take the ferry and there were so many people waiting for the ferry and when we came over it was stormy, so the sea was very rough and we had to take a really big ferry and it was a very rough ride over.
Speaker 2:If you remember, once you got out actually into the open sea away from the barrier islands, the ride was really rocky. Remember water was flying up on the second because we were on the second level of the boat sitting outside and it was raining and it was rough. But on the way back it was the smaller fast ferry and it was so full that they actually made an announcement that if you are not having a medical appointment and you do not have business and this was on a Wednesday if you do not have business or a medical appointment on the main Island of Tortola, please get off the boat, so the tourists can get back to their hotels and the people who do have medical appointments can get on and then try to come back again Monday. Monday, it's like five days later.
Speaker 1:Not even the Friday ferry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause the Friday ferry. Remember the woman at Tipsy's Tipsy's beach bar, my one of my favorite places I've ever been. She said Friday's the worst day to take the ferry because that's when everyone's groceries come over from the mainland. So during the week you call the grocery store, the grocery store labels your groceries and puts them on the boat and then you go to the dock with the other 200 residents of the island and collect your groceries. And she said it's a nightmare every week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I could, I could imagine, but that is probably the most complicated thing that they do.
Speaker 2:But they do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it doesn't even faze them, because their grocery store has about seven products on the shelf, because we went in and bought a bottle of water for six dollars, but everyone there is happy, and I think everybody is happy and laid back and they know nothing else.
Speaker 2:And this is why I say sometimes, when you don't know what's going on around you, it's better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's just jump into the episode. So in this episode we're going to explore the profound impact of living simply and what it means for your mental health. We're going to delve into a lot of the modern complexities like materialism I specifically want to talk about intricate sexual dynamics, Lindsay, the rat race and also the financial strain that can burden our minds. Go ahead, Were you going to say something?
Speaker 1:No, no, I was just agreeing with you, but carry on and we're also going to pull for some, and I know there's, you know there's folks out there that do not believe in God or scriptures or whatever, and that's fine. But I do think these texts are helpful because I do believe that the scriptures from various cultures were early attempts at mental health counseling, right, and so I think if you look at scriptures religious scriptures not so much as religious but as like life lessons.
Speaker 2:That's for me. That's what I find right, because whenever you quote the Bible, I don't really believe in Catholicism. I grew up Catholic, but I'm a more spiritual person now. However, I do believe that the usually the scriptures are like a lesson and you can apply them to something that's going on in your life. It doesn't have to be a direct correlation, do you agree? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, so let's just jump right into it, right? So we're going to start off with materialism and mental health, um, and so I want to ask you, lindsay what do you believe? How do you believe materialism and chasing after material things impacts mental health negatively?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's just. It takes you out of the present moment. It takes you away from who you are, because you're constantly striving for something else or striving for what other people have, instead of just taking what you have and being okay with it. What do you think?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to. You know, like P Diddy, before he was disgraced, famously had the song more money, more problems. And I think consumerism, in this constant push for the latest trends and the latest clothes and the latest technology, causes a lot of stress. Right, and we're definitely going to jump into people who live above their means in our final segment, which I call a hedonic treadmill, which is this concept that people return to a baseline level of happiness despite achieving a major, despite a major positive or a major negative events, just because of something that they purchased Right.
Speaker 2:Well, think about how often I write that you go out and you see something and you've got to have it. And you get it. You're like, oh okay, and then you never use it, remember I mean, covid was a great time for that. We bought so many things, remember, and just like threw them in a closet and things would arrive on the porch that you would forget you ordered and then, and then you put them away and you don't use them. And you and I've been having a lot of talks lately about really we moved into a house empty yeah, remember, and it's full now in five years and we talked about, once our renovations are done, there's just really simplifying our lives.
Speaker 1:And when we and we've stayed in some really extreme places in some really extreme conditions. When I think about this apartment here that we have at the Elm suites, I could live in this for the rest of my life. Same Absolutely. How about in Calabria, which was?
Speaker 2:Oh, that was bigger than here actually, which was a bigger than here. I could live there too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and, and, and. It goes back to what Diddy said. I think it's like more money, more problems, right? What do you think about that sometimes?
Speaker 2:It depends. It depends what you use your money for, right. If you use your money for power and control, probably. But if you're a humble person, right, I mean, think about Jimmy Buffett, right? I mean, he's a man who was so wealthy, but he really lived the lifestyle that he preached.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, one of my coworkers is was neighbors with Jimmy Buffett and he said in long Island Jimmy was known as a regular guy. There was a one of the stories that he told about Jimmy Buffett is there was a bunch of fishermen that went missing during a storm, maybe about five, six years ago or in the past decade at least, and Jimmy was one of the first people that got out on his personal boat with and led it and went to go look for these guys and he said that's the kind of guy that Jimmy Buffett was. I met Jimmy Buffett once.
Speaker 2:Yeah, years ago, very easygoing guy I went to. He, his kids, went to a Montessori school in Long Island and he used to do a fundraiser there and I was so young I saved all my money to buy tickets, for it was like $500 a ticket or something. But it was a small show like a hundred, 150 people, which is like unheard of right With a really popular celebrity. And he would go to the iconic Montessori school and he would like sing in the auditorium and they had like a silent auction and all these things. And I remember thinking, well, he's got to show up at some point.
Speaker 2:So my college roommate and I, we saved all our money and we went to this concert and we waited outside in the parking lot until right before it was supposed to begin. And who pulled up in his own car and drove himself there? Jimmy Buffett. And we walked right up to him. He was the coolest guy. He posed for a picture with us and was like all right, I'll see you inside. And that was it. There was nobody with him, no security, his wife wasn't with him, nobody. He just drove himself and he was so cool, took a picture with us and just went inside.
Speaker 1:That makes me think about what you picked up from the the one love movie the, the, the, the Bob Marley movie. What did Bob Marley say about materialism?
Speaker 2:Well is, I think we talked about it last time. What we recorded too is that money doesn't make you rich, it's your experiences and your relationships and you know, and I think you know he I mean he obviously was a Rastafari right and I think that's a very kind of peaceful culture.
Speaker 2:And I think that there's a very big Rastafarian influence here in Tortola as well, where everybody is just so easygoing and everyone helps each other out and supports each other, and even more so in a place like Anagata, and the 200 people live in one place called the settlement right Isn't that what it's called?
Speaker 1:It's called the settlement.
Speaker 2:It's like one little village. There's a few random folks who live out, you know where, they have a beach bar or a restaurant, but for the most part, all of the residents of the Island live in this little tiny area called the settlement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and one of the things I appreciate about going places off the grid, which we often travel to, is there are not these components of society that drive materialism, that drive unhappiness, there's not the comparison to other people, there is not associating your identity with the things that you have, and there is definitely something that we sit down with clients with and struggle with clients through is external validation. Right, Because I think a lot of the reasons why people buy material things or very become materialistic is they need to, as the saying goes, keep up with the Joneses. Well, bob's got a Lexus, I got to get a Cadillac, you know we know people like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't care about stuff like that, yeah.
Speaker 1:And when you don't have TV or access to social media, with these things, marketing to you, marketing to you, marketing to you, telling that you need more, telling that you have to have more because you have to feed the machine. You definitely see that in places like Tortola, where there is zero percent you said there's zero poverty.
Speaker 2:I don't zero percent poverty. But I do think that that's partly because all of the people who live here on the land and so there are, you know there's not a, you know there's not a population of people who can't afford to live Right, I think that's a big portion of it. I don't really think you, if you own your own land, I don't really think you have to work that much here, and I think that that's what we see is. I was talking about Elvett yesterday and today. Elvett shows up here. He owns the bar and these seven units that he rents, and he shows up in the morning. He gives us some new beach towels if we need them. He sweeps out front the sand. He fills our water foot washing bucket so when we come from the beach we can rinse our feet off and he goes about his day and we don't see him again unless the restaurants open, and even then sometimes he's not here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, but it's like the people here, they just do things at their own pace, yeah.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite songs by the Smiths and Morris say. I think the lyric goes back in the days when we were frightfully poor. I just loved you more. And it's not like anybody on this island is poor. Anybody in the other Caribbean islands that we lived, go to are poor. They are just not consumed by materialism, right, and when we think about mental health and we think about materialism and how it impacts mental health, studies have linked high levels of materialism with symptoms such as depression, because people pursue material goods instead of pursuing their themselves, and what I mean by pursuing themselves is like getting to know yourself more.
Speaker 2:I think people think that the more they have, the happier they're going to be, but that's really not where your happiness doesn't come from the external right or having a lot of things. Happiness comes from being content and content with what you do have and making the most out of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and one of the strategies of, of, of, uh, one of the strategies of that is, uh, mindfulness and meditation. And as we talk about mindfulness and meditation, lindsay, how do you think that would help folks?
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny Cause I think you always ask me about meditation and mindfulness because you always. It brings you into the present moment. You and I actually talked about how different my life was before meditation. We just talked about it this morning, Remember, um, it brings you into the present moment. It it makes you okay with what you are and what you have and who you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, moving on from materialism, I want to talk about complex sexual dynamics, and I don't think that people realize how much they are overcomplicating their lives with relationships, with sexuality and a whole bunch of this stuff. My other friend I'm going to just call her Little Joe, we talked about this once many years ago and about the and I'm not I don't want to use this as a way to condemn people but the uncleanness of sleeping with multiple people. Right, and I'm saying this as someone who, before I met you and in my past I have slept with a with with a number of people. Can I say I felt happy about sleeping with a number of people? No, because sex without emotion is is I describe it as empty calories?
Speaker 1:But Joanne had actually come across an article, like on a mental health website that was talking about chakras. Oh, it's going to be great when we have bless on and talk about chakras and mental health, um, but she was reading about chakras and how sleeping with so many different people leads to like a blending together of so many different chakras and energies and how that doesn't really bode well for your mental health. And so I wanted to spend a couple of minutes talking about the psychological impact of swinging and open relationships and extramarital affairs.
Speaker 2:It's a tough one for me. I told you that because I've had clients in open relationships in the past and they've tried open relationships and extramarital affairs. That's a tough one for me. I told you that because I've had clients in open relationships in the past and they've tried open relationships and they don't work the way that they think they're going to work Never do and I don't really in my personal life, I don't believe in that.
Speaker 2:So that's like a hard one for me to wrap my mind around, because I think that as humans, we have a tendency to attach, yeah. And so people go in thinking, oh, it's just like, oh, it's just funny games, I'm going to bring the other person in, right. But you become attached to it and there's a reason that you want to have multiple sexual partners or have attention from other people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Now us as counselors it is not for us to judge your lifestyle and I have had clients sit down with me and you've had clients sit down with you that want to have open, open relationships. They want to be polyamorous, and for a lot of folks that works, and for a lot of folks it does not, having have led that lifestyle in the past. And I have a classmate in school currently who has several clients that are in an open relationship. It complicates the situation much more, right? As my professor said the other day, with clients in open relationships it becomes blurry. What are the rules? Right, and a lot of times, what makes an open relationship complicated or what messes up open relationships is let's ask Will Smith about. It is when one person follows the rules and the other person does not, and so when I talk to people who are in these complicated situations cheating open relationships, I ask them about how complicated do you want to make your life relationships? I asked them about.
Speaker 2:How complicated do you want to make your life? Yeah, I think it's. It's tough. It's a tough one it's still tough for me to talk about because I know that I've had some. I had a client, for example, in an open relationship and I said to her you really got to lay out the rules, and when they? You know, she said that she did, but then as soon as she strayed from her partner and had a relationship with someone else, his behavior got. She said weird, right, that was the word she used.
Speaker 1:Of course it got weird because she broke the rules.
Speaker 2:And he said, well, I don't really want to hear about it, so she had been divulging too much information to him and I think it's it's a tough, it's a really tough one, Right. And I had a professor at NYU once say you know, you can do that and you can have these kind of unattached relationships, but you really have to know how to do it.
Speaker 1:Yes, you can't be messy, right, and it's like I said and I believe that same professor said you cannot be messy with it that if you are going to lead a life that way and, once again, if you're in our audience and you have an open relationship, and we're not judging you for it, but you have to do it in a manner that is not messy. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, but I you know, and you have to be able to design what that non messy situation looks like, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Cause I don't want to say that there are no. Like. If you look up the positive aspects of open relationships, some people will tell you that it leads to autonomy and freedom. Some people will tell you it leads to a strength and bond because you're having shared experiences together. Um, and it also reduces the monotony. Like, ah, I don't want to eat pizza every day. Maybe your husband or your wife is pizza.
Speaker 2:However, aren't there exciting ways to bring sex into relationships? As a side note, I mean Cleveland.
Speaker 1:Oh, dad's listening to this. He just said that.
Speaker 2:He just told you at dinner the other night that you're embarrassing him.
Speaker 1:I'm not talking about you, though, when I said I was looking at that, the tofu that was on the counter, and when I did, ok, dad, yeah, ok, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2:What were you saying? I don't know. You just really made me lose my train of thought with all of that.
Speaker 1:Um no, you were gonna say. I said there was some positive looking for a birthday, something, something no, no, eventually dad's listening.
Speaker 1:What are you doing? You're making me ramble, but here's the thing. I think you were going to talk about the negative impacts right, because I did want to say, I didn't want to be like a total herb and I know there are folks out there that swing and have open relationships are going to say, well, it's been positive to our communication. But here's the thing there is, as my professor said, once the rules become nebulous and this is the problem with open relationships and polyamory is once the rules become nebulous and we, as humans, we have attachment issues. We want to be attached to other people and invariably, what happens when you swing or when you're in open relationships or you're cheating you start to love. You can't do these things without emotional blowback.
Speaker 2:Well, I think cheating is a different kind of topic, because I think people stray from relationships because of some struggle they're having with themselves or because their needs aren't being met in a relationship, and I think that that's a lot of times where cheating comes from. And I think cheating and like heterosexual non-monogamy are different things. But here's.
Speaker 1:But you know I want to make the argument too, because you know I, we, I was in class today and I had a client and I one of my classmates sees some folks that are in an open relationship, and this does happen quite often in open relationships where somebody Jada Pinkett, I'm looking at you violates the rules of the agreement right, where one spouse and that's invariably what happens right, and that constantly happens over and over again in these situations where somebody eventually is going to break the rules In this case it was the husband who goes out to bars and recruits people, and there's a great podcast I love listening to called the Endless Honeymoon Podcast, and someone wrote in a couple of weeks ago about being in an open relationship and finding the complications of it, and the co-host there was like you know what?
Speaker 1:That's a complicated situation. And if your husband goes out to a bar to recruit women, what if the woman says I want you but not her? Or what if you're sending your wife out to recruit people and the guy or the woman says I want you but not him, what? As my professor said, we're already in an open relationship. So maybe I'll take this one for myself. I do not think. Those are the things that people think about when they make these decisions for themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would agree with that I would yeah, and that's really on that right. There's a really emotional complications. Managing multiple relationships will lead will definitely lead to complex feelings of confusion, jealousy and insecurity.
Speaker 2:What happens if you like the other person more?
Speaker 1:And that's imbalance, right. What happens if you like the other person more? Right, you can't. It's hard to give attention to multiple people in a polyamorous situation. I'm not crapping on it, but I'm letting you understand that the situation is complicated, right, and there's also a boundary violations, right, which is going to be invariably misunderstandings leading leading to stuff. Now that brings us to cheating and extramarital affairs, and I want you to definitely talk about that some, right, because you said that's different, right.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, Cheating is obviously different right, I mean cheating is like your needs are not being met and you're straying right. Or you have some kind of issue in your relationship or issue with yourself, and so you're straying right, and I think I talked about it as like a, like a forced abandonment. Sometimes, right, sometimes people do things because, like the pattern in their life is that they've been abandoned, so they don't really believe that a person can be in a monogamous relationship with them, and so they force the abandonment right, so it fulfills that negative belief that they have, like, oh well, if I cheat, oh now she's going to dump me and I'm still not lovable, right? Or I'm still not worth sticking around for.
Speaker 1:The Bible says when you cheat or when you have an extramarital affair, if you're not married or you go outside of your relationship, that you're not being fair to three people. Lindsay, who do you think those three people are?
Speaker 2:You're not being fair to yourself, to your partner and to the other person, and why is that? Well, it's because you're really not there for any of them.
Speaker 1:You know you're not, you're not 100 percent present for any of them. I mean often when you especially with an extramarital affair.
Speaker 2:if you are going to stray from your relationship, then it's likely because you know perhaps your partner is not willing to come to the table and work things out or to listen to what your needs are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Nina Simone has this great song called the Other Woman and at the end of the song she's talking about, the other woman has all these things that are better than that, are, that are that are different than than her or different than her. And then you realize at the end of the song that she is the other woman, right, that she is the person that the husband is cheating with, but she is unfulfilled because she knows that she can never have his love completely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think people don't realize that cheat also the impact that it leads to self-esteem Right.
Speaker 1:Both partners in a relationship, both the cheater and the person being cheated upon, feel inadequate and feel a sense of moral grayness, feel a sense of just a sense of betrayal, of just a sense of betrayal, and it impacts both people and it's really, once again, it is an extra complication to your relationship that you do not need.
Speaker 1:I've worked with folks in the past who are cheaters and I always look at the hoops. Like many years ago I worked at FedEx, there was this gentleman I won't say their name, but he was cheating on his wife and we would all laugh because the person that he was cheating with his wife and we would all laugh because the person that he was cheating with this dude was putting in more work with that person than he was with his wife. And it was like bro, like how do you do it? Like what is you know what is the inadequacy? And it goes back to that scripture in the Bible about not being fair to three people. Because how are you fair to yourself, how are you fair to your wife and how are you fair to this other person when you're not throwing your attention in any specific area, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Right, well, and you can't possibly, right. I think you've said in the past, right, that like cheating is like a lot of work. You have to remember who you're doing things with and what you're doing, and you know that's a lot of things. You have to remember who you're telling what to. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know that's a lot of things. You have to remember who you're telling what to, yeah, yeah. And then I want to talk about this in a single aspect, right, because I'm quoting on we're talking about swinging and we're talking about we're talking about extramarital affairs. But I've often found with a lot of clients and I've been really surprised, especially with female clients is what happens when you date more than one person or are intimate with more than one person at a time.
Speaker 2:It leads to a lot of confusion, right, and you don't know, it's an exchange of energy, yeah Right, like when you are having sexual relationships with people, you're taking on their energy, and when you take on their energy, you're taking on all the parts of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, several years ago I sat down with the person that talked to me about the weekend and they talked to me about going on four dates and how icky they felt. And I was like, let me ask you a question If you sat down to dinner and had four separate meals, how icky would you feel? Right, oh, yeah, yeah. And so you can't. You can't serial date and you can't go. You can't serial date or cereal, sleep with folks and feel good about yourself. It's like you can't eat. Think about it like this Could you sit down, eat pizza, chinese food, italian food and then Indian food all in the same hour?
Speaker 2:No, but if you're sleeping with that many people, you also don't feel good about yourself, right? Because you're looking for this external gratification.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I once had a discussion with a friend of mine that told me that they went on five dates in two days and I had to ask that person. I was like can I ask you a question, friend? Did you enjoy yourself? Like, how did you fit that time in Right? And it is really amazing that folks don't give themselves an opportunity and we're definitely going to do an episode on online dating. But when you or it goes back to that conversation that Joanne and I had many, many years ago about having being single and having numerous sexual partners, how it just is icky and it complicates your life, your life. Jordan Harbinger once on the on the uh back when it was the art of charm, but now it's the Jordan Harbinger show had a relationship expert come on and say that there are people with high body counts. Right, there are people that sleep with a lot of people.
Speaker 2:Remember that guy? A 90 day fiance, oh Sarper, oh, he hits like over 2000 sexual partners.
Speaker 1:I was like that's just gross, but the relationship expert will tell you when you have a high body count. He said that there's an issue of quality over quantity. What do you think he said? What do you think he said about people with high body counts? Do you think he said they had quality relationships or quantity?
Speaker 2:No, they have quantity relationships, of course, because that's not quality. Even sleeping with someone as soon as you meet them is not a quality situation. Yeah, even sleeping with someone as soon as you meet them is not a quality situation. Right, if you can be talking to someone and dating them and then you know you go on one date and then start sleeping with them, you probably do that with everybody that you date.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, what do I always tell you when someone when I was single and a woman has told me I have never done this before?
Speaker 2:I'm like I, yeah, you do this on every date, Of course. Of course it's like they say that and try to be like, oh, you're so much more special than everyone else.
Speaker 1:If we're doing this on the first date, you do this on every first date.
Speaker 1:And Steve Harvey talked about that many, many, many years on an episode of Oprah where he was talking to these single, beautiful women and he said you know what a good man does, or a man who is about something does?
Speaker 1:He sits down and he looks at you and he takes he wants to understand how you will fit into his life Successful people and I'm going to say this clearly because a lot of you people out there in the audience do not understand what, what really are the keys to success Steve Harvey said successful people are focused on accomplishing a goal. If you come in as a man or a woman and you look like you are going to complicate that successful person's life Talking to you Jada Pinkett, talking to you Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck If that person looks like they are going to complicate your life, a successful person will not add you to it. Yeah, as simple as that. And if you are struggling with dating and you cannot find a quality component, you have to ask yourself am I coming across as somebody who is going to add or subtract to someone's life?
Speaker 2:I always say that I think you and I were talking about that with friends. Was it yesterday when we were out swimming and I was saying to you that, like everybody that's in your life, should add value to your life?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what Jordan Harbinger says. Jordan Harbinger often says you should often fly as close as your five closest friends, or if you are the smartest person in the room, it is now time to find another room. And so when you're thinking about these, if you're single and you're out there and you're dating, you have to think about the quality. As I sat down to somebody, it's not who you're worthy of, it's who's worthy of you. And if you are just out there giving yourself away, giving yourself away, giving yourself away at no value, you are not going to find a value person.
Speaker 2:That is the truth. You aren't. You know you're not going to and you're exchanging so much energy with these people and what I was thinking about when you were talking about Jada Pinkett Smith was celebrities cheat and it's like why do you think your partner's not going to find out? You're a celebrity, yeah, like. You're not like a normal, like guy on the on the street normal, normal people can't cheat.
Speaker 1:Because here's what happens in, in, in most people that have affairs is eventually somebody catches feelings and and I've seen it happen, and I'm sure you've seen it, but I've seen it happen numerous times in my life where either the man or the woman that's the bits be that is the other person eventually is like you've got to make a choice. It's either that person or me that is correct. And once again, you are not being fair to multiple people and I and for the selfish people out there, I want you to understand the primary person that you are not being fair to is yourself, absolutely, absolutely, a hundred percent, hundred percent okay so we're going to move on to our next topic, which is the rat race and living upon uh, uh, uh, above your means, lindsey.
Speaker 1:What tell me? What are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 2:well, I think most people live above their means. So I think that when you're constantly in this like race to, and when I think about the rat race and participating in the rat race, it's really kind of subscribing to all the programming that's put into us. That's my, my kind of perception of it, or my opinion. I think that it also takes you out of the present moment, but it to me. It reminds me of something that I say about like I'm not going to follow a set of rules for acceptance right, I don't compromise my authenticity to fit in with people. I think when you're constantly striving to kind of keep up with the Joneses, you're compromising who you are. So for acceptance right With a certain group of people.
Speaker 1:I a hundred percent agree with that. Um, how do you think financial stress and anxiety lead to poor mental health?
Speaker 2:Well, you and I talk about this all the time because we're really anal about having a lot of money in the bank and about coming on vacation and not spending a lot of money and things like that. And we go on all these budget trips and we're actually very, we're very lucky and we're very blessed Right, because we both have lucrative careers and we do well enough for ourselves that we have these opportunities to travel. But what's funny is we travel and we stay in places that are like a hundred dollars a night. And I don't know if it's this part of me that just likes to feel like I'm going to be financially secure or there's a part of me that, from my divorce, I have some trauma of being in like the grocery store with a calculator trying to make sure I can make ends meet.
Speaker 2:Know when you're constantly trying to. You know when you're constantly stressed about money and having anxiety. You know how. How do you ever feel like comfortable with your situation Although there are a lot of people that do, and you and I talk about that also is like, how do these people sleep at night? So there's also like a level of like oblivion right, right, cause heaven sent.
Speaker 1:We talk about heaven sent and I got to give heaven sent props, because heaven sent was saying a couple of weeks ago I have 43 cents in the bank and the Lord just have me. Dear God Lindsay, dear God Lindsay.
Speaker 2:I could not If I had 43 cents on the bank, I would die.
Speaker 1:I would die and that, what you said, was what you had just said. Earlier. There was one of my friends at FedEx posted many years ago on Instagram. He's like I got to give props to you people that don't have any money in the bank and not a working and that can sleep at night because I can't sleep at night Right A hundred percent, like if I couldn't pay my rent, I wouldn't sleep, so so.
Speaker 1:so, when you live above your means and I've got multiple friends who I've talked to and it amazes me they are buried under credit card debt. Right, they are buried by loans. And now here's the thing Loans. Unfortunately, we live in America, we live in a capitalist society. There are certain things we are going to. All, as Americans, live with a certain amount of debt. You are going to have student loans, you're going to have to upkeep your house. Do you need to run up your credit card, though?
Speaker 2:No, because if you are running up your credit card, it means you are spending money that you don't have to spend. And the only time I ever run up a credit card is so I can buy, like plane tickets, and get the points or you know things that I get the points for, but typically, like when we booked our flights here, we put it on the credit card and then we went in and just paid it off five minutes later because I just wanted the miles on the credit card, and then we went in and just paid it off five minutes later because I just wanted the miles.
Speaker 1:And I've got clients and friends, um, and I really don't want to really identify anyone, but I've got a couple of friends that recently really surprised me People with lucrative careers that are talking to me about, ah, you know what? I might have to get a second job because I've got this much credit card debt. I, I got a friend. Uh, I've got friends right now.
Speaker 1:Somebody at my work once told me if you can't afford to date, then bruh, don't go, don't date. If you, if you cannot pay for a date out of your bank account and you have to put everything on a credit card groceries, you know. If you have to put necessities on a credit card, it is now time to rethink necessities on a credit card. It is now time to rethink Are you living a simple life? Are you living above your means? And it's a shame in a countries like America. And I'm not anti-capitalist because I like making money and I like hey, you see, if this was a video podcast and you saw my clothes collection, you would be like this dude has a lot of clothes. Jesus had nice clothes. When Jesus died, the soldiers cast lots over his clothes.
Speaker 2:It's okay to have nice things. Cleveland also peruses all the sites for the sales.
Speaker 1:I do peruse the sites for the sales.
Speaker 2:We'll be like I used a coupon code and then they had a sale and I got these for $15.
Speaker 1:Now, my shirts may cost $200, but I buy them when they are $20, $30, $40. And I do not use a credit card.
Speaker 2:But also you are now in a different position because now you're not really buying so much stuff, because you're kind of easing out of that corporate environment and they don't know that yet. Oh, yes, I am. If I tell them that'll be fine, yeah.
Speaker 1:I am going to ease out of that corporate environment, but a lot of times folks and we'll definitely get in some scriptures and some sayings, but folks add debt to themselves that they do not need. I've talked to people that don't have $20 for an Uber. I've talked to people that don't have $50 for groceries, yet they're paying for Taekwondo classes for little kids, yet they're paying for extravagant vacations, but they're putting simple things on their credit card and they're causing themselves to be in debt because, as one person was, well, we don't want people to think we're poor, but you are poor.
Speaker 2:Well, but what makes you poor right? Living beyond your means, like that is definitely something that makes you poor, right, and if you think about it, what is poor?
Speaker 1:You know? Listen, I've met rich people. I've been with rich people Right, I have a friend who's a television producer. I've met actors and a lot of. What you guys do not understand is that folks that have money also live on a budget too. Jordan Harbinger will tell you one of his favorite things is he lives in. He used to live in Beverly Hills, california, and he said he knew people with million dollar mansions, with million dollar cars, that didn't have $5 to put gas in their car.
Speaker 2:That's crazy, that's crazy, so crazy. I mean, when I was getting divorced I had child support, but my child support pretty much covered my rent because New York city is so expensive. And I remember I would go to the Trader Joe's and I would have to take all the kids and I would have to literally sit there with my iPhone calculator in my hand and count up how much I could buy per week. Yeah, and like what would be the best value to feed the family, but I never put it on a credit. Yeah, and like what would be the best value to feed the family, but I never put it on a credit card. No, I took it from the debit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think people don't understand. There's a difference between being rich and being wealthy. Chris Rock once said Shaquille O'Neal is rich, but the man who writes Shaquille O'Neal's checks, that man is wealthy. Right, and wealth and richness don't necessarily go together. You can be wealthy and have $100,000 in the bank and you can be rich and have $200 million in the bank, but you could be rich and broke if you do not manage your wealth well.
Speaker 2:Well, and you can also have no satisfaction with your life.
Speaker 1:And you could also have no satisfaction in your life. And so wealth is different than than rich, because wealth is like a holistic whole. Simple, once again simple way to use your finances.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:And there also are a lot of psychological factors that go along with living beyond your means, which is constant worry and a reduced quality of life.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think, that constant worry, I think that it's interesting because people, some people don't really have that worry, yeah, like they just aren't even aware of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, and it also brings impact on relationships. What was funny is in class today and this goes back to my colleague that had the clients that are swingers. The two things that they worried about are money and swinging and I was like and I and the professor agreed with me when I said this like when you go back and see them next, the only thing they need to be worried about is money, right Is. The other thing is complicating their relationship, right, and the problem is is when you don't have money or it really takes away from you, or when you're not spending money wisely in a relationship, it takes away from partner time. Right, we stayed here for about 14 days for eighteen hundred dollars. There are places that are eighteen hundred dollars a night that you could probably stay here, but you won't have the quality time that I got to spend with my spouse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also where we are right. We're like steps from the beach. We can walk everywhere that we want to go and we're not stressed about it because we paid for it in cash before we came here and we get to enjoy each other and reconnect with each other, which is the purpose of going away and not coming home and saying like, oh my gosh, now I have like a $10,000 credit card bill because I've stayed in this luxury establishment where I was never even in the room where I was never in the room.
Speaker 1:I mean, we are steps from the beach and so there are mental health consequences.
Speaker 2:Speaking of by the way, it's almost time to go to the beach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're almost wrapping up there, but there are mental health consequences to all of this, right, there's anxiety and depression, there's persistent worry, there's hopelessness, there's lower self-esteem, there's feelings of failure, right. But once again, we live in a capitalist society. You have to understand this capitalist society that we live in makes money off of you spending money, and so every message that you get in this capitalist society because this part of the system needs you to spend money for the system to keep going is to make you continue to spend money right, there's a great documentary that you can find. It's called and I know I talked about it before, but it's called the N-Word Factory, and you can Google it, you can find it on YouTube, and that's what he talks about.
Speaker 1:Is this consumerism? Is this idea that I need more and so I want more, and then you're really not fulfilling the greatest part of your life, which is Lindsay, is what should you be getting fulfillment from, and who should you be getting fulfillment from? Yourself, yourself, yourself. So, as we come to our final segment here, I want to talk about religious perspectives on Christianity. Right, one of the verses here that I like to quote is First Timothy 610. And it says for the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from faith and have pierced themselves over with many grief or stabbed themselves over with many pains. Lindsay, what do you think about that? Oh, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just reading it again, right? Yeah, it's like a greed. Right, you have a greed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because people get. The people often quote it wrong. People often say money is the root of all evil. Money is not the root of all evil. Money is not the root of all evil. Money is a tool that, if you used correctly, can help you empower your life.
Speaker 2:I mean, listen, I will say I like money, you like money, right, I like money, but I will work hard for the money that I have.
Speaker 1:Yes, but you see what the scripture says. It says the love of money, the love of money, the love of money I do love money yeah but I like money and money likes and money likes me.
Speaker 1:That money likes me. But you know what? Ok, let's say why is the love of money not important? Because part of what we've had contentions on in the past have been about hey, I think you should leave your job. And I'm like, oh well, you know what? My job is comfortable, but if I, if I'm only staying, it doesn't feed your soul, but it doesn't feed my soul.
Speaker 1:So if I stayed with my job, because I love what my job pays me, am I am I. Am I living a simple life or am I complicating my life?
Speaker 2:Well, you're complicating your life, but here's the thing that know what you're going to do is you're going to be like, oh my God, I should have left so long ago. That's why I'm not saying anything to you anymore, because I have my fall vacation already planned. You don't have vacation time, you're not coming. You're not going to come on the winter one either, because you still don't have any more vacation time. And so eventually you're going to see what you're missing out on because you're a slave to corporate America. And I have america and I have to finish school yeah, but you could quit. But we'll talk about you know, there's I could, I could, but we'll talk about that. This is a live, this is a live on air there, but you got to do what works for you. Yeah, and I am no longer getting involved in those discussions.
Speaker 1:Oh, but eventually I need to do what the simplest solution would be.
Speaker 2:Agree on that yeah, well, I mean, I know, when you ran out of vacation at the end of last year and I stayed away an extra week, you missed me. So, you're really not going to want me to like go away for long periods of time without you.
Speaker 1:If you need to go away, you know I'm always there. The PlayStation is there. I could find something.
Speaker 2:Well, that's good then, so I don't have to worry about it, I'm all good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I could find something to play on the Xbox or PlayStation for a week and eventually, in 2025, when I work for myself, when we hang up our shingles and we work, many of these numerous contacts that we've made and connections that we've made in the last year, then, you know, then I'll be able to join you freely. There's a quote from Buddhism which is contentment is the greatest wealth. Oh, I do agree with that and talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2:It goes back. What does it mean to you to be content?
Speaker 1:To be content means I'm content right now and I'm good Right, but like what are you content about?
Speaker 2:Like, are you happy with where your life is? Do you feel? For me it's like this satisfaction with where I am Right and I like myself. I don't care what other people think about me. I'm not striving for anything bigger or better and for me, like I'm content with what I have, who I am.
Speaker 1:And that's why. But I'm content too, and I because I have have learned to tune most ninety nine point nine percent of things out Right. When you are a capitalist, consumerist, people pleasing American, you are never going to be happy because you are always going to be looking to get the next thing, buy the next thing, possess the next thing, or the next person, or I need my girl to be this level of hotness, I need my man to make this level of money. Those are not the things that make you happy, right? And Islam follows that up by saying, in the book of book five of Hadith, verse 20, 20, verse, surah. The book of book five of Hadith, verse 2020, verse Surah probably I think that's how you say it Twenty two, eighty seven. Richness does not lie in the abundance of worldly good, but true richness is the richness of the soul.
Speaker 2:That's what I always say. I mean that's a great ending point yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, before we end, I do want to just say one last piece, and then we will wrap it up is I want you to say this quote by Gandhi, because you are our spiritual expert.
Speaker 2:OK, live simply so that others may live simply. Is that what you?
Speaker 1:mean no, live simply so that others may simply live. Sorry, and what does that mean? So, live simply so that others may simply live. What does that mean to you? And we've talked about that.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think it makes people comfortable around you, right, the more calm and the more content that you are with your life. I think it kind of keeps other people balanced, and I think you always tell me that you're envious of my level of like, contentment and calm and not like not getting activated, and I think it goes back to what you've said before is that people who are do not practice mindfulness are menaces to themselves.
Speaker 2:Oh well, yeah, Sarah Swati says people who don't practice self-care are menaces to society. Yeah, and it's like it's very true.
Speaker 1:I always compare people who are messy and complicated to when you're driving down a highway and you got one dude that's speeding in and out of traffic. Right, that person is not driving. Simply, you know the best way to avoid an accident, lindsay. What's the best way to avoid an accident?
Speaker 2:Drive safely.
Speaker 1:Stay in your lane. Follow the guidelines Right. Follow the speed limit.
Speaker 2:Something. Remember that? Um that Ben the college drop-in, he uh said the other day he's just started started driving and he said he was so scared because he saw his first terrible accident ever since he was a licensed driver when he was in the driver's seat and I thought, oh, this is good because it's probably going to get him to drive safer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, speed is the number one. Google it. I've taken. I've worked for Amazon, I've worked for FedEx. Speed is the number one factor in accidents. Right, overmaneuvering your car, putting too many touches on that steering wheel. If you just followed the speed limit and stayed in your lane, is it boring to go 65 miles an hour when everybody else is going 85? Yes, but is it boring to be four or five car lengths back when everybody else is on top of each other? Yes, but will you be safe? No, why would you be safe? But will you know what I'm saying? Will you be safe when you drive safely?
Speaker 2:You will, but the people around you might not be, and then you might get pulled into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so live simply so that others may simply live, means that if you live in a simple fashion and you do not cause any ripples, or do not cause any, or do not live in a fashion that is messy, that other people around you will be able to enjoy their lives also. That is the truth. That is the truth. Some practical tips for living a simplifying your life, and Lindsay and I are definitely going to. We've talked about this as we're renovating the house, we are going to get rid of a lot of furniture which is decluttering your physical space, simplifying schedules and commitments, which is why very much so, my Lindsay is enthusiastic about me leaving my corporate job and mindfulness, which is taking time, and I want you guys to listen to this Taking time to focus on the things and the people in your life that really matter.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, because you can't get that time back.
Speaker 1:You can never get it back. Some resources that you can look up to and we'll definitely put them in the show notes are the Joy of Less by Francine Jay and Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport. Some relevant articles that you can find on Psychology Today are the Mental Health Benefits of Living a Simple Life and on Mindful, why Simplicity is the Key to a Happier Life. That's really it. That's really it that I have for me. On this end, lindsay, do you have any call to action? I have nothing else.
Speaker 2:Okay, time for the beach.
Speaker 1:Oh, time for the beach. The only call to action I want you guys to do is I want you to start small on your journey to simplicity. Right, and start by maybe decluttering a room. I saw Judge Lynn Toler once said on divorce court um I think it was Lynn Toler, it might've been the other lady, no, I think it was Lynn uh said that, you know, um, hoarding is a sign of, of of mental illness, right, and if you can start decluttering or detaching yourself from some of the things in your life and I think there's what is the Hindu scripture or the Buddha scripture that attachment is the start of suffering.
Speaker 2:Well, attachment is like the cause, like the root cause of suffering.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so if you want to start decluttering or start, simple, right, think about the things in your life that are complicating your life right now that you can jettison, get rid of, and do that right, but start small, and this has been with that. This has been cleveland and this is lindsay, and this has been another episode of the devil, you don't know.
Speaker 2:The last one, probably that's filmed here or recorded here in the british virgin islands, maybe the last one.
Speaker 1:You, you may. Yeah, you've been. You've been wanting to do a a couple more, so maybe we might sneak one more in, but if you like what you've heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, spotify or whatever platform you're listening to us. I recommend this to your friends and like and subscribe.