Veterinary Blueprints
The Veterinary Blueprint Podcast is all about taking the blueprint of industry experts and breaking it down in short, digestible episodes you can use to take your practice to the next level. Join host Bill Butler as he interviews experts on client and practice management, financial strategies, human resources, and more. Gain valuable insights and stay ahead in the veterinary field by tuning in to tips from successful experts inside and outside the veterinary industry.
Veterinary Blueprints
#11 Legal Navigation for Veterinary Practices: Ensuring Compliance and Protecting Interests
Unlock the secrets to navigating the ever-changing legal landscape of small businesses with our latest guest, Michael Salchert. As a seasoned attorney for veterinary professionals, he brings a treasure trove of insights into avoiding legal pitfalls and ensuring your practice thrives. This episode is a must-listen for entrepreneurs who understand the value of being proactive in legal matters, whether you're reviewing commercial lease agreements, grappling with non-compete clauses in employment contracts, or staying compliant with the latest legislative changes like the Corporate Transparency Act.
This conversation with Michael is like having a backstage pass to the legal intricacies that could make or break your veterinary practice. From dissecting the potential hazards in seemingly benign lease terms to the Minnesota Safe and Sick Time Law's impact on even the smallest of employers, we're covering it all. Ensure your advisory board is stacked with the right experts as we guide you through building a protective legal fort around your business interests. Prepare to arm yourself with the knowledge to confidently step into legal arenas that often intimidate the unprepared.
Wrapping up, we take a deep dive into the world of employment law. We dissect the new Minnesota legislation that changes the game for non-compete enforcement, and what it means for your current and future contracts. Compliance isn't just about ticking boxes; it's about understanding the spirit of the law, such as why employee welfare is at the heart of the Minnesota Safe and Sick Time Law. By the end of our chat, you'll be equipped with the strategies to keep your practice not only running smoothly but also fostering a supportive environment for your team.
GUEST INFO
Michael Salchert
Shareholder - Larkin Hoffman
Phone: 952-896-6712
msalchert@larkinhoffman.com
larkinhoffman.com
linkedin.com/in/michael-salchert
Host Information
Bill Buter – Contact Information
Direct – 952-208-7220
https://butlervetinsurance.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/billbutler-cic/
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I cannot tell you the investment that I made in working with a qualified, competent attorney who has experience in the arena. It was worth every penny that I invested and it wasn't an expense. I didn't call it an expense, it was an investment because it saved me a lot of headache and time to make sure everything was proper and done along the way.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Veterinary Blueprint Podcast brought to you by Butler Vet Insurance. Hosted by Bill Butler, the Veterinary Blueprint Podcast is for veterinarians and practice managers who are looking to learn about working on their practice instead of in their practice. Each episode we will bring you successful, proven blueprints from others, both inside and outside the veterinary industry. Welcome to today's episode.
Speaker 1:Welcome to this episode of the Veterinary Blueprint Podcast. I am your host, bill Butler, and today we're joined by Michael Seltzer, an attorney and shareholder with Larkin Hoffman in Minnesota. Michael is based in Minnesota, texas, and has extensive experience helping veterinarians with buying and selling practices, forming professional corporations and partnerships, advising veterinarians on contracts for employment, partnerships, real estate and other business related matters. So Michael has extensive experience in all of those areas. We both are members of the Minnesota Veterinary Medical Association, which is how Michael and I got connected and I'm just grateful to have him join and share his insights with some recent changes for small businesses and we're going to speak about how that affects Minnesota business owners and veterinarians, but then also some larger scale items. So welcome, michael.
Speaker 3:Thanks a lot, bill. I appreciate you having me on your podcast. A little background for me is I in my previous career. I was working at a dental field for a manufacturer for many years and then I went back to law school and I became an attorney and I saw an opportunity where the dentists or the practitioners would be retiring because they're part of the baby room generation, and so I started helping them with their transitions, and it also moved over to veterinary practices, which I really enjoy Working with veterinarians to help them sell their businesses and also new veterinarians to help them buy. And it's been great creating a network of other advisors like Bill to work with so we could be a team and help the veterinarians be as successful as they possibly can.
Speaker 1:I think that's really critical for entrepreneurs in general is just building a good team or network of advisors, whether that's attorneys, cpas, insurance or other. I think that often gets lost and you don't realize what you need until you go oh, I don't know how to put an employment agreement together, or I don't know how to do insure something, or I'm going to buy a building. What are the implications of that? It's not just working with the real estate agent, it's also some contractual stuff. So I'm glad to have you on the podcast today, especially to talk about some timely issues that are recent legislative issues and are changing the landscape of owning a small business, specifically a veterinary practice. So I'm glad you could join us today.
Speaker 1:You and I were chatting before scheduling the podcast and one thing that you mentioned to me that kind of was like oh, tell me more. Was the Corporate Transparency Act and how that's going to affect small businesses. And in the world of entrepreneurship, legislation gets passed and all of a sudden boom, you've got to make changes as a business owner and sometimes you're not up on stuff. So why don't you walk us through what the Corporate Transparency Act is and how that's going to affect small businesses and what they can do to make sure they're up to speed on that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so in the last couple of years there's been a movement toward at the federal level to create an act or legislation to help identify owners of shell companies in order to fight terrorism.
Speaker 3:Right now, the United States, prior to this act, was one of the few economies that allowed an anonymous ownership to exist on public records, and so it was really difficult for the FBI or other investigative agencies to find people who own these LLCs. That could be shell companies, laundering money, terrorist organizations or whatnot, and most of these existed at the lower level of businesses, these small business entities, and the larger ones, the public companies. That information is easy to follow or, if they're licensed for some reason or whatever, or whatever they're doing, then they have that information already. So they passed that act and that act is going to go into effect on January 1st and you have one year from January 1st to report who the beneficial owners are of each company, unless there's an exception that doesn't require you to report, but most small businesses will have to report. And then, after January 1st, if a new business is created, you'll have 90 days to make the report, and you make the report to the. So quick it is the. It's a financial criminal, fincine.
Speaker 1:Fincine yeah the financial.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so anyway, sorry I forgot about that.
Speaker 1:I forgot, but it's a lot of that's okay, Well, it is the, it is the government, so they, they love the acronym stuff. So so just to just to clarify January 1st, all small private entities which is going to bring a broad brush all small private entities are going to be required to register with sin thin, which is a federal organization, with who, the, the, the primary beneficiary is for that business.
Speaker 3:Correct and basically the rule of the areas, the controlling owner with 25% or more of an interest or financial ownership in the company, and they're going to have to reveal their you know tax ID number, where they live, what their name is and some other information as well. So, and the definition.
Speaker 1:I'm just my, my pause, Michael, is this. My pause, michael, is this but you're telling me, as a small business owner, entrepreneur for the first time, live on this podcast is I'm going to have to go and report my home address, my federal tax ID number, my controlling interest in my parent organization for Butler vet insurance. That's your and I've got to go register that with the federal government.
Speaker 3:Well, you may not because you might be under one of the exceptions.
Speaker 1:Gotcha.
Speaker 3:Insurance agencies may be exception.
Speaker 1:Oh, how about that?
Speaker 3:But veterinarians most likely to be captured in this, oh absolutely, and they're going to be captured in this, but you your license in other ways, you mean you may not have to report. You have to look at those exceptions and see if they apply to you.
Speaker 1:Gotcha.
Speaker 3:But anyway, one of the big exceptions is whether or not you're a small company. A small company is defined as a company with less than 20 employees and with revenue less than $5 million a year, and I think probably 90% of the vet practices out there, so I think that's a good category.
Speaker 1:So I mean, if we use the 80 20 rule, I mean I look at my own practice and probably yours, right?
Speaker 3:I mean 80% of the practices we work with are under $5 million of revenue and most likely under 20 employees. I mean that's that's the vast majority, so they're going to get rolled into that and they're going to get the $5 million of revenue and that's going to be the first of 20, 25 to file with good and soon Gotcha.
Speaker 1:But if you're but if you're a practice forming a new corporation and you help veterinarians, you know new corporate filings they're going to have to file when they do their corporate filing. They're going to have to file with sinfin as part of their corporate organization If they're going to start a practice or or use that entity to purchase a practice on an acquisition.
Speaker 3:If they form the company and and one of the kind of base rules here is if you are filing with a secretary of state, that's that makes you the kind of entity that they want the reporting from. And if you file after January 1 of 2024, you'll have to file with FinCin within 90 days 90 days.
Speaker 1:So February 2, I decide I'm going to start a corporation as a veterinarian to do an acquisition within 90 days of February 2. I have to not only get my corporate stuff. I filed my corporate stuff February 2. Those are the articles of incorporation date. I've got 90 days to file with sinfin to get my or FinCin to get my compliance Compliance Air court for those listening, not watching.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there's some stiff penalties if you're not in compliance.
Speaker 1:What's the federal government? Michael, I would expect stiff penalties, if nothing less.
Speaker 3:Plus criminal penalties if you're doing it intentionally.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I'm looking at, I mean you sent over a. What are we talking about here? This is a 35 page document or something From September 23, which is probably the document you're reviewing. Is at the exact same time and it's it's. You know, it's a. Well, I think that goes back to your original comment about making sure that you're networking with appropriate people inside of your sphere and that way they can look out for your best interest, right?
Speaker 3:Right. Well, that's right. If anyone's listening to this, I'm sure Bill can provide my email address and I could, and if you want to contact me at my, carol legal will help you file the file with or answer any questions you might have.
Speaker 1:So I mean yeah who's? A beneficial owner of my company. Yeah Well, let's talk about the importance of working with a legal professional who has experience in the in the veteran industry. So what are you know, beyond the kind of vanilla legal contracts, articles of incorporation, purchase of practice what are some things that you think veterinarians it's critical for them to kind of have a handle on from a legal perspective where they may be getting into trouble just as a business owner in their sphere and their industry.
Speaker 3:Well, there's a few things. I mean, if they're hiring other veterinarians, other DVMs, and they're going to have employment agreements, so they may make sure that their employment agreements are in line with what's required in Minnesota. Another area is the focus excuse me, my phone. The other is a board of veterinary medical licensing, and so you have to make sure that you're also in compliance with their requirements as well. Sometimes people get a follow of those and also real estate. I run into a lot of stuff with real estate where people get into leases or situations with obligations that they didn't realize they had. Prior to sending a document over to a legal professional, have them review it first. Or if you own real estate, whether or not you have, you're in compliance with American Disabilities Act or other zoning.
Speaker 1:I actually just had a claim get filed against one of my clients for ADA because their ramp wasn't the proper degrees on their ADCAP accessible ramp.
Speaker 3:I run into that stuff all the time. I was talking to a vet today because he had a patient or a client dispute a charge and basically take some prescribed medicine for their animal and leave without paying. So a long conversation with that particular vet on how to handle that situation.
Speaker 1:I want to jump back to the lease agreement thing. Yeah, so there's no end to trouble that I think business owners and veterinarians can get into. I want to jump back to the lease comment for just a second. Just be there. Statement, because I am not an attorney. I'll preface my statement right now. I'm not admitted by any bar in any state or the American Bar Association, like you are, Michael.
Speaker 1:But so often I see my clients and veterinarians say hey, I'm moving into this space or I'm purchasing a practice and they've already signed the lease agreement and they send it over to me because I've got to comply with the insurance. I don't give them any legal advice on the lease itself, but I've got to interpret the insurance requirements. I think. Did anybody look at this before you signed this agreement? Because you're required to carry a $5 million umbrella now I think you could probably speak to this better than I can. Is that everyone's always trying to pass the buck and in lease agreements the landlord's trying to pass a contractually to the leasee. You really want to have somebody review those documents before you sign them, because now you're contractually obligated to comply with them.
Speaker 3:Well, right, I think sometimes clients when I'm talking to them after they've signed a lease agreement with all of any advice, they'll discover that a lot of the risk within that agreement is on their side of the leisure and there was no negotiation. They're responsible for things that maybe they shouldn't be responsible for. They're maybe an old HVAC system and now they're responsible for the cost of reporting.
Speaker 1:I had a claim on that Large strip mall in the South Metro suburb of the Twin Cities. I mean large strip mall, 40 tenant unit and somebody went up on the roof and stole all the coils out of the air conditioners. The tenant was responsible for replacing the AC unit. She's like I'm a tenant in this building and I've got to replace a $15,000 HVAC unit. Are you kidding me? I said the insurance company is not going to cover it because you don't own the property, but you're responsible for it because you signed the lease agreement. She's like what can I do to get out of this? I said I'm not an attorney, better call one. But the insurance company is not going to cover this because you don't own the building.
Speaker 3:And lease agreements are written in a way that it's all. It's very difficult to get out of it, extremely difficult. Another one that comes up in lease agreements is that tenants can get on the hook for capital improvements so, like the landlord, can come in and make all sorts of capital improvements and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then that cost gets added to their can cost or their operating costs that they with the other tenants I had another that I had a bet that we have a fight with the landlord on that point as well. So you know and there's little things that you do in that sort of situation you have to negotiate it. Maybe the landlord isn't going to read the bad. But then what you do is you say, okay, we're okay with paying for it, but it has to be amateurized over the life of the improvement so that you can spread that cost off over 10 or 20 year period.
Speaker 1:So you know, I guess it's buyer beware and these things are negotiable, right? I mean, it's a contractual agreement, it's not written in stone. I think, for the veterinarians out there listening, if you get handed a lease agreement, you do not have to immediately sign it. I mean, I did an acquisition where I purchased another insurance agency and I cannot tell you the investment that I made in working with a qualified, competent attorney who has experience in the arena.
Speaker 1:It was worth every penny that I invested and it wasn't an expense. I didn't call it an expense, it was an investment because it saved me a lot of headache and time to make sure everything was proper and done along the way. And I think you know I think you know for my industry and probably yours they look at us and say, oh God, I'm wasting the money on insurance or I'm wasting the money on attorney. They're just out to make a buck off me. But long term you can get into a lot of trouble, either signing an agreement or not having enough insurance for you know, speaking about our two industries, what's all that?
Speaker 3:comes to that. There's two different types of leases. You have residential and commercial. Residential leases have a lot of protection under statute, so you have already. But on a commercial lease you don't. The court look at you and the legislature looks at you as your sophisticated business person. It's up to you to negotiate your own.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that again it goes back to the original comment about building a trusted advisory board, so to speak, of attorney, cpas you know, insurance HR, whatever that looks like to make sure that you're, because there, as you mentioned, there is a lot of consumer protection. Same thing on the insurance side. Right, so there's a lot of protection for personal insurance from the Department of Commerce, but it's buyer beware on the commercial line side, all of those consumer protections are not there, because you're now that you formed a corporation and a legal entity that you've got to now report with the federal government through FinCEN. Apparently You're a sophisticated business owner, you know everything, so figure it out and we're going to come after you.
Speaker 3:You're making a great point about the network too. So you know I tend to work in particular areas, but what I can be is I can be a point person. For that as well, they can call me up, and if I can't do it, I know who can. So you know I'm a resource. I know the. I know the other players out there that can help you, like bill here on insurance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know. Speaking about contracts, for a second, I know that there was one thing that I wanted to touch on because it was a very hot topic in my industry and I know there's. There's some communication going out there inside the veterinary world about non-competes and enforceability of non-competes and there was some federal legislation that was being floated and then they did pass legislation in Minnesota about non-competes. What's your kind of thought process or attitude towards non-competes? And I know there's some other components to an employment agreement. First, I'm going to ask you this question Should every employee at your practice have an employment agreement signed?
Speaker 3:No, I think you have two tiers of employment legal documents. If you have DVMs working for you, you should have an employment agreement with them, professional employment agreement, all other your techs and your business people or anybody else that you're employing you can have a well-drafted employee handbook that can serve to provide all of the policy information that you need with regard to those individuals. And so I generally you know, sometimes there's a case where a lesser employee, somebody not licensed, might need an employment agreement, but it comes up very rarely.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. And so within those, specifically with the DVMs, I think there's some a lot of conversation out there right now. There's a lot of corporate practices who are hiring DVMs and I think there's some contention about their non-compete clauses that are being put in there. Number one in Minnesota specifically, what's the legality of non-competes? And then just generally overall, how enforceable are they as an instrument and employment agreement?
Speaker 3:Okay, so the law changed on January 1st. So as of July 1st any new employment agreement or independent contractor agreement cannot have non-compete in them that exist after termination of employment. So you can have non-compete provisions in an employment agreement during employment but you can't have the for two years after termination. You cannot compete with.
Speaker 1:Practice medicine within five miles. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Those are void now and unenforceable.
Speaker 1:In the state of Minnesota.
Speaker 3:In the state of Minnesota. Any new ones the existing ones that exist prior to July 1st are still enforceable. So there's a current agreement out there and my advice to young DVMs that have employment agreement is, before you renew your employment agreement you should get a brand new one so that it can be non-compete, can be removed from it.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. And then, as far I mean, in my industry there's a lot of conversation about enforceability of non-competes where they don't actually really hold up in court that well, if I wanted to try and you know I've got someone working for me and they, you know they leave the agency and they go work somewhere else For me to try and go actually enforce that non-compete is a very hard uphill battle. But there's a couple other components to an employment agreement that's probably more critical to have in there, which is non-piracy, non-solicitation, especially in my realm. But do you want to talk about those two components of an employment agreement in relation to non-compete?
Speaker 3:I think in the insurance world, I think it will be different in the professional practice world. The non-competes, they did serve a value, I think, to a lot of doctors, but now that they're not enforceable it's moved to non-solicitation, non-disclosure of confidential information and protection of proprietary or trade secret information. And so those provisions at now when I'm drafting those agreements, I'm really bolstering up those provisions so that they're very strong and expressed in a very explicit terms so the employee understands that they can't steal clients' lists, they can't provide, you know work products, workflows, checklists, all of that yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they can't use any of that information. They can't use any of that. So, and the other point here that people should understand is in the transition in a sale of a practice, this is one of the exceptions under the new Minnesota law. If I'm selling my veterinary practice and the buyer wants me to be under a non-compete, that's enforceable.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, the non-compete to a correct yeah, that was my understanding as well, michael is that the buyer's seller transaction for non-competition is very enforceable, but the employer employee non-competition that went away. So, just for the sake of transparency, but for the lay person out there, I work for you. I sign an employment agreement after July 1st. It doesn't contain a non-compete, but it's got the non-piracy, non-disclosure, non-solicitation components. I can open a practice next door to you, but I can't take the client list. I can't take all the checklists and workflows. I can't call any of the clients that I used to see or patients that I used to see. Now, if they come, if they choose to come to my practice because they know that I'm practicing next door, the client can freely choose to do that. But I cannot solicit them to come to my new practice.
Speaker 3:Correct and it gets a little bit gray here, all right, because sometimes, in a lot of times, employment agreements you'll have attorney's fees provisions as well in these remedies. So as an employer I can go after you as a former employee and if I think you are violating the agreement and I can prove it, you have to pay my attorney's fees as well as your own to defend it. So that's kind of you know, something else to keep in mind. If you're correct, you cannot, you can't solicit. But the challenge there and the advice I give to my clients is, if you're going to do that, if you're going to open up a cross the street or next door or whatever you're going to do and you have clients that you know are coming from that other practice, you better have good documentation of how that communication started or else.
Speaker 1:Or else that employer can come in, you open yourself up to lawsuit right.
Speaker 1:You absolutely do so and it's you know, the agreement that, yeah, definitely documented the agreement that I had with the prior owner of the practice, the insurance agency that I acquired. It's lost revenue. It's I get to charge a reasonable rate of the revenue that I anticipated that I lost, on top of the attorney's fees. So it's not even just the attorney's fees, it's also the lost revenue that I can justify having lost to your solicitation of the clients. You know, I think you know, as business owners, we don't, we don't like to think about that, but it's, it's protection. You know you have to take off your practitioner hat and put on your business owner hat and you really need to protect the practice. Do you think anyone is ever going to go out and steal all your clients? No, you never. Ah, you never know what could happen. And and that that again goes back to working with a knowledgeable legal professional who can help you draft documents that are going to protect your business.
Speaker 1:One last item that I'd like to touch on, just because it also is, is new law in Minnesota, specifically in in. I think you know these types of laws. If you're not, if you're veterinary, not Minnesota, these types of laws are getting rolled out across the country. I think more and more states are are looking to put these in, but it's Minnesota's safe and sick time law and how that can impact small businesses. And again, that you know the definition of small businesses, ah, the the legislative definition of small business, which I think is a revenue number and an employee number. But why don't you touch on some of the changes that are coming for, ah, small businesses, ah, just in general in Minnesota, and how that might affect veterinarians?
Speaker 3:Well, um, I think the one that's coming up right now is and that starts at the beginning of this next year is the safe and ah, sick and safe time law, and and, and if you have one employee, you're subject to it. So, basically, so that's how small.
Speaker 1:You are One employee. You're subject to the Minnesota safe and sick law effective January 1st. Right Michael.
Speaker 3:That's correct. That's correct. Okay, so that's one of the changes that. Ah, employees, our, our legally, our employers are legally required to allow employees to accrue one hour for every 30 hours, worked Up to a maximum of 48 hours a year.
Speaker 1:So you have to allow up to 48 hours of safe and sick time for one hour for every 30 hours worked.
Speaker 3:If somebody works 2,000 hours a year, you divide that by 30 hours, that comes after about 66 hours of paid or safe, sick or safe time. But I could cap it at 48?.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. But the other really important part of this is what you're going to use it for. And what they can use this for is for their own care of a family member with a mental or physical illness, or for medical diagnosis or preventive medical or healthcare for domestic abuse, sexual assault, seeking medical attention or services or psychological help or relocation, or seeking legal advice. And it's not just for you, but it can be for a family member, and they really the definition of family.
Speaker 1:That's a very broad definition of family member. I mean it's like it's trial.
Speaker 3:Foster child, adult child, legal ward child of whom the employee is a legal guardian. A child whom the employee stands or stood in as a parent, a spouse or registered partner, sibling, step sibling, foster sibling. Biological adoptive a foster parent, step parent, grandchild, foster grandchild, grandparent, grandparent. Child of a sibling. A sibling of parents.
Speaker 1:So a niece or nephew? I could take time off for a niece or nephew's illness.
Speaker 3:You have a niece or nephew, and then the other part is you can name up the one designated individual that you're not even related to.
Speaker 1:So I could name you. If you were sick, I could say I'm going to go buy Michael some chicken soup. I need the day off. You got to give it to me.
Speaker 3:Exactly, if I'm your guy, you're protected under the law you might be my guy, michael, I might make you my guy.
Speaker 1:I might make you my guy for the safe and sick. Now I think this affects every business in a different way, right? I mean, you know, in our industry we're a little bit more flexible, right? So you know, I have a team member out right now. She's pretty ill and she's a hybrid works hybrid, so she spends part of the time in the office and part of the time at home and this January I decided I'm just going to go to unlimited PTO. I know that that's kind of the other end of the business spectrum and I said I'm not going to get into trying to track hours and track time and if you need to time off, just take time. But I know that there's a lot of businesses out there that can't afford that sort of leniency or scheduling and that sort of thing. So how does a business who isn't tracking specifically one hour for every 30 hours, how does that play in?
Speaker 3:Well, you need to show it on their paycheck and you still need to show it on their paycheck, regardless of how your PTO is set up.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I need to show that they're accruing this time that they can use for safe and sick time Right. So that means you need to work with a really good CPA and or payroll provider. That's got your back even if you haven't lived. So again, back to our network of professional providers is to make sure that they're in tune with what's happening in your state or because I think more and more we put it in.
Speaker 1:I put that in place for my team just because I did not want them.
Speaker 1:I had a team member last year whose husband needed an e-surgery and we were kind of looking at PTO hours and she was kind of getting to the end of her PTO and I was like I really don't want my team worrying about whether or not to have the availability to take time off to care for a spouse and whether or not they're going to be short five hours or 10 hours in a pay period or something like that.
Speaker 1:And again, I know every business and every practices in a different spot. But now working, you know I've got a couple notes here that I got to reach out to my attorney maybe Michael's my guy to make sure I'm compliant with SINFIN on the Corporate Transparency Act, but then also, you know, communicate with my CPA and payroll provider. Hey, am I making sure, even though I offer unlimited PTO, that I'm tracking this Minnesota safe and sick time? And I think that you know the intention is we don't want employees thinking or worrying about having to take time off for all the reasons that you highlight right, which I think we'll both agree are both valid reasons to be off of work for a certain period of time and not have to worry about losing wages for doing that. But from a business owner's side, it's making sure that you're tracking that so you do not run a foul of the law and that those things are in place at your business or practice.
Speaker 3:And along with that you have to provide the employee's notice of their rights under the law by posting or else you're in trouble again and the penalty is because it's the government, is our stuff, as you would say.
Speaker 3:Well, the employees know about it and it has to be in their primary language and it also, if you have an employee handbook, you need to update the handbook so it exists in there as well. So you know there's a lot of little things about this. I could probably talk for an hour and a half on this alone. But, that's the point from that.
Speaker 1:Well, I really appreciate the time today and I think the key takeaway from all of this whether you're domiciled in Minnesota as a veterinary practice or another state is to make sure that you're networking and connecting with professionals, and Michael and I know each other through the Minnesota Veterinary Medical Association and your state association is a great spot to network with professionals who understand your industry. Just as a plug, whether you are in Minnesota or Texas, where Michael works, you can always reach out to him and we'll get that info in a second or just, you know, reach out to your state association and look for those professionals because you want to make sure, as these legislative actions take place, that you're up to date with, making sure that you're compliant and not going to run a foul. That I really enjoyed our time today. Michael, for our listeners out there who are in Minnesota or Texas, I know you're in the bar in Wisconsin as well. How do veterinarians find you out there in the world?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm an industry partner with the Minnesota Veterinary Medical Association, so you can go to that website and my information is there. Otherwise, you can shoot me an email and my email address is Amazon Michael S-S-M-A-L-C-H-E-R-T at Larkin, l-a-r-k-i-n Hoffman H-O-F-F-M-A-N dot com.
Speaker 1:And I think you're on LinkedIn as well, so we'll make sure to have that contact info out there as well for LinkedIn if they want to connect with you that way. So well, I've really enjoyed our time together. Michael, Thanks for being a guest on the podcast.
Speaker 3:Thanks, bill, I appreciate being on, it was great.
Speaker 1:And, as always for our listeners out there, make sure to like, share and review the podcast. It helps with the algorithms out there and the internet so that other veterinarians and practice managers, veterinary professionals, can get the podcast. So tune into the next episode of the Veterinary Blueprints podcast, where we bring business and entrepreneurship principles to the veterinary community. Thanks for listening. Thanks for tuning in to Veterinary Blueprints. If you have any thoughts, questions or suggestions for an episode, I would love to hear from you. Email me at bill at butlervetinsurancecom. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if you could do me a huge favor. You know it helps with the algorithm. If you can like, share or comment on the post, leave a review. I would love it. Thanks for tuning in and until next time.
