Jonathan Kingston: National Geographic Photographer on Wildlife, Cultures & Maritime Mysteries

Exploring the World Through the Lens of Jonathan Kingston's, a long standing contributing photographer for National Geographic

In this episode, we delve into the extraordinary life of Jonathan Kingston, a celebrated National Geographic photographer. From his high school beginnings to underwater adventures and cultural storytelling, Jonathan's journey is nothing short of inspiring. Join us as we explore his path, challenges, and the passion that drives him.

Key Takeaways:

• Jonathan Kingston's passion for photography started in high school.
• He took a gap year on the Crow Indian Reservation, which ignited his love for storytelling.
• A pivotal moment in his career was meeting the editor-in-chief of National Geographic in Hawaii.
• Jonathan has balanced diverse interests, including rock climbing and underwater photography.
• He emphasizes following one's curiosity and excitement as a path to success.

Call to Adventure:

• "Follow your curiosity, follow your excitement, you know, ask yourself, what's exciting you right now."
• "There's a reason when I feel that tingle of excitement, there's something calling me to that."
• "To honor that, to listen to that, to give that excitement time to really speak to you and say yes to it."
• "Don't say no. Don't find an excuse to not do it. Find an excuse to say yes to that curiosity."

Pay It Forward:

• "I would love if anyone does have excitement for ocean preservation for maritime archaeology. Go to the SACI website, the Submerged Archaeological Conservancy International. It's saci.org."
• "All the information is there about how to get involved with the projects that I'm involved with."

Follow Jonathan Kingston:

• Instagram: @JonathanKingston

Links Mentioned:

• Submerged Archaeological Conservancy International (SACI): saci.org

Transcript

 Matt called me up. He said, Jonathan, I'm working in Molokai, Hawaii right now. He was a landscape architect  and I'm working at this retreat center. And next week, the editor in chief of national geographic is going to be here. He comes out every year. He's a big supporter of this retreat center and it's called work camp.

They, he volunteers his time, paints the walls, hammers boards with, and a bunch of other national geographic photographers are all going to be here doing the same thing. You got to come out and meet these guys. I know that you told me way back in college, you wanted to work for national geographic. I said, Matt, that's. 

That sounds great, but I'm  totally broke right now. I, you know, I don't have enough money in my bank account to buy a airplane ticket to Hawaii next week.  And Matt said, look, just figure out a way. You got to make this happen. These elephants in the Andaman islands that would swim, they'd swim between these different islands because there'd be females on some of the islands and males on the other.

And the minute I heard that in the special, I could see in my head, the shock of an elephant swimming in the ocean, silhouetted against the sky.  And so I instantly the next day I went back to my boss at the school. I said, Hey, do you know anyone in the Andaman Islands? He said, yeah, actually I do. I can introduce you.

Two years later, after the fact, I'm on a dugout canoe at a settlement of maybe 20 people who lived in this village. And every day that the Mahouts in this village would swim their elephants. It was just part of their daily ritual, their daily bathing routine. And they'd swim the elephants out of the ocean.

They'd scrub them down. So I'm waiting there for this to happen. I talked to the people in the village. They were all excited for me to be there. And that's how the frame of the swimming elephant came about.  

Welcome to the Adventure Diaries podcast, where we share tales of adventure, connection, and exploration.

From the smallest of creators to the larger than life adventurers, we hope their stories inspire you to go create your own extraordinary adventures. And now your host, Chris Watson.  

Welcome to another episode of the Adventure Diaries. Today, my guest is Jonathan Kingston, a longstanding contributing photographer for National Geographic. 

For over two decades now, Jonathan has traversed the planet capturing its raw beauty and untold stories. Today we'll discuss some of his incredible assignments, such as shipwreck diving in Panama,  capturing swimming elephants in the Andaman Islands,  and his submerged archaeological conservation work too. 

We also walk through how Jonathan went from initially studying chemistry to getting that breakthrough chance with National Geographic. This is a wonderfully fascinating episode. So settle in and enjoy this fantastic conversation with Jonathan Kingston. Jonathan Kingston, welcome to the Adventure Diaries.

How are you?  

Doing good. Thanks for having me today.  

It's a pleasure. I really looking forward to this. Been scanning your Instagram again in preparation for today. Some of your work is Is incredible, which we'll come on to. Very short introduction Jonathan. I think safe to say for the past 20 years, you've been exploring our planets,  bringing to life the best of our, you know, our best of our planet, our wildlife, our cultures, through some incredible storytelling with some of your imagery.

And  part of the reason of reaching out today is you are a contributing factor, you're a contributing photographer, sorry,  to  National Geographic, some fantastic images.  And that's what we want to explore today. So just a little bit about your background, your transition into that  life of photography and that passion and then  into National Geographic and some of your cultural experiences.  Yeah, so just kind of rolling right back a little bit to your kind of formative years. Your backstory, could you tell us a little bit about that and how you got through into photography before we touch on the NatGeo  stuff?  

Oh, of course. Yeah. Thanks, Chris. So I guess I kind of fell into photography Fairly early on, I discovered it in high school.

I had a great teacher in high school. We had a vocational program there, and I wasn't very good at any of my other classes. I never excelled in math or English or, you know, all the sciences. And when I got to this class in photography, it was the first thing I'd ever done that  I felt I had some sort of innate talent.

Ability, some sort of innate gift to do. And so I think it was in the first year of that class, there's a couple of your class in the first year of that class, the teacher offered a contest and it's, you know, 20 prize or something. But I entered in my prints and I won the prize. I said, wow, that was an easy way to make 20 bucks.

Maybe I can do that again. So I went home that night and I sat down with my family and I said, dad, I've got this. Figure it out. I want to be a professional photographer. So I gotta zoom out a little bit here. My dad is a world famous scientist. He's helped invent a drug called taxol, which treats breast and ovarian cancer.

He's an organic chemist. He studied at Queens College, Cambridge, and he came over to MIT did his postdoc there and then continued on with his research. Yeah.  Here's his, you know, 16 year old son telling him he has his life figured out. And my dad just says,  Jonathan. That's not a good idea.  But it really was.

Like I said, it was the first thing that I had ever done in my life that I really felt  called to do good at that. I had an innate gift. So I was convicted. So I went back and forth and back and forth with my dad for weeks over this. And finally, we sort of reached this detente where he said, look,  Get a degree in anything.

I don't care what it is. If you still want to be a photographer after that, you've got my blessing. And that's how it all started was right there in that high school class. 

You touched on there about your father and that kind of, when you first raised about being a photographer, I think,  did I hear correctly? Obviously, your dad being a chemist the Ufield chemistry. Was that part of the challenge, trying to convince him that chemistry wasn't a life for you, but it was photography?

How did that go down?  

Absolutely. He wanted me to follow in his footsteps. And my mom is also a chemist. And she helped invent if you've ever shot a Polaroid she helped invent the magenta dye that are in Polaroids. And so he, yeah, there were expectations in my house that, you know, I was maybe going to either be a scientist or a doctor or something like that.

So I think I'll skip a bit of my story, but fast forwarding to when I did end up at university freshman year, I took a freshman chemistry class. And this was at the university where my father was dean of the chemistry department. And I failed that. I failed that course. I got an F in freshman chemistry and I feel in hindsight, you know, I was trying to prove a point.

I was trying to show my dad chemistry was not for me. But what I feel bad about today is the teacher of that class.  Went to my dad before she failed him, you know, before she failed me and she said, David, I've got to fail your son. He said, he deserves it. Give him the F  so 

were your parents ever interested in photography or film at all?  You know, it's, did you have any inspiration on that?  

It's funny you bring that up because.  Years later and I'm talking, this is recently in the last five years, I was visiting the UK and I'm talking to my dad's brother, my uncle. And he said, Oh, your dad loved photography.

Here's all these negatives that he shot when he was your, you know, when he was a teenager and apparently he had built his own dark room. He developed his own film. You know, the genes were in there somewhere.  

That's incredible. That's yeah, that's lovely. So fast forwarding a little bit then, Jonathan, so  You know,  you were so when you started taking up photography, what, you know, the storytelling aspect, you know, find that really interesting.

Did you have any sort of influences in your childhood or coming through into that? You know, anything that kind of fascinated you that made you curious about storytelling? 

Yeah great question. You know, honestly, what happened? I guess I'll back up in the story a little bit. So  right after high school, I really wasn't excited.

I didn't feel any passion whatsoever to go to university. I took a gap year and. During that gap year, I, my family all the way back to my grandmother has had some connections with the Crow Indian Reservation in Montana through nonprofit work. And so I called up my cousin who was at that time.

A doctor on the reservation. I said, David, his name's also David. We have lots of Davids in my house. I said, David, is there any chance that I could do some volunteer work on the reservation? He said, yeah we're opening an afterschool youth center. You know, so from the time the kids get out of school until about five o'clock if you could come run the center every day we could really use some help with that.

So that's what I ended up doing. And I ended up living with a family the pretty on tops on the reservation. And it was during that time that this was sort of the stage one of storytelling. I just absolutely fell in love  with that culture. I realized that when you fall in love with something, when you become truly curious about something that's not something you can fake.

It just happens. And I wanted to  tell other people about my experience there. I wanted to share that experience with my wider group of friends.  And The next step beyond that, when I did get back to university, after that gap year on the reservation,  was  all the time I should have been spent studying freshman chemistry, I channeled into some other hobbies.

I was an avid rock climber, still am an avid rock climber, and I'd take these huge trips out west. I'd climb El Capitan in Yosemite, I'd climb Half Dome in Yosemite, I'd take Pictures of those ascents.  And when I'd come back from these trips,  I would have, you know, a little point and shoot camera with me and I'd take pictures and I'd give a slide show to the climbing club at university.

And the first show would be  10 or 20 people. And they'd sit around and say, wow, that was really good. Let's do that again. Let's get a bigger room and invite more people. And I'd tell the show again, next time we get a hundred people. And then the same thing happened. That was really good. And by the end of this process, I was in these sort of stadium seat, these big lecture halls at university.

And I ended up traveling with my show and telling my story. And that was what really clicked for me. That was when I realized.  That I was a storyteller that at that point, the pictures I was taking  were not exceptional but the stories I was sharing were and that's when I realized, hey, I, this is a component to this.

This is, storytelling is going to be a big component in my life.  

Yeah, and this is all well before social media, isn't it, Jonathan? Instagram and the like, so you're getting, obviously, traction in crowds before the advent of social media.  

Years. I mean, we're talking that was in 96, 97 that I was doing those traveling shows.

And yeah, there was no facebook, there's no instagram. I wasn't getting that, you know, instant virtual affirmation from  sharing this stuff. I just sort of had this need to tell these stories And the reaction I would get from the people when I shared them,  they would light up and they'd feel inspired to go out and have adventures too.

And that, I think that was sort of this self feeding  energy that, that happened out of that.  

Yeah.  Were you trying to fulfill that sense of wanderlust and stuff and exploring through all that?  Early on, did you, or did you foresee a life of adventure? Or were you just kind of finding your feet and going along for the ride at the time? 

I 

think in my 

head,  

I knew, you know, if I could design an ideal life for myself, a perfect life for myself,  it would involve Not being in an office. I just knew myself pretty well at that point. I knew that you know, in  the wisdom of the years, probably what I have is a d. A. D. H. D. And it's very hard for me to sit still and concentrate on something for a long time.

But when I'm out doing something when I'm out adventuring  and all my senses are getting involved, it's. It's the best feeling in the world. It's my brain relaxes and I can just be present in that moment. I think that's why I started rock climbing when I'm rock climbing. It's the only thing going in my head when I'm traveling.

It's the only thing that's happening. You know, when I'm scuba diving, that's it. It's just taking up all of my brain and all those.  Little things that are hovering around in the edges, trying to distract me, just disappear. 

Fantastic. So going back a little bit to your time on the reserve in Montana,  were you photographing at that time as well? Because that was a gap year, wasn't it? But were you actually actively, you know, doing photography work as well as immersing yourself in the culture?  

You know, I brought Minolta what was it?

It was an old Minolta camera. I shot about 10 rolls of black and white film that, that year. So I wasn't shooting a lot, but the pictures I took during that time, when I look back on them now are, they're certainly very meaningful to me, but they're also meaningful to my friends on the reservation because they really captured a moment in time that's disappeared.

You know, that's  something that I'm  beginning to realize more and more about images is a lot of times.  in the moment, they don't have meaning to you. Five, 10 years from now, they have tremendous meaning. 

So what was your life like on that reservation? Cause it's quite, did you spend the year there or was that just part of your gap year? 

Yeah I spent the entire year there. And  I, you know, It was interesting. It's,  Montana is beautiful. I don't know if you've had the chance to visit, but this is Eastern Montana.

It's high plains. You're up at about 6, 000 feet elevation in the wintertime. It's so cold as the winds come down from Canada that you walk out the door and the snot freezes in your nose and two or three steps. And if your hair is wet, you can break your break, break your hair off.

But you know, my it was a wonderful year of being pulled out of what I was used to. You know, I grew up in a white middle class, upper middle class home. I had a very comfortable life. I had a great high school education and being plopped into the middle of another culture was  such a wake up call at such a, I think, important time in my life to realize that we're all different, but at the end of the day, we're all the same.

We all want the same things. And, you know, my, my days there were you know, pretty standard. I'd wake up I'd get a workout in I'd work at pizza hut in the morning. They had a pizza hut just off the edge of the reservation. And then I'd come back after my shift and I'd open the afterschool youth center and play with these kids.

And I think one of the,  one of the coolest things for me recently is I, you know, I've kept in touch with everyone. I was just back there about a month ago or a couple of months ago now in August. And all those kids that were kids, you know, little kids running around playing ping pong or pool or whatever they're doing.

They're all running the tribe. Now they all have jobs and it's just so amazing to see that, that transition in their lives. And to know that I got to. Be a small part of their lives back at that point and continue to get to be a part of their lives. Now, that's  

lovely. Jonathan, do you think that's had any influence or bearing on, you know, you being a teacher in  photography and stuff at the moment?

Has that had any sort of bearing or influence on that?  

I think so. That was a start of it for sure. Was  realizing that I can maybe make a contribution. To, to different to people's lives, you know, I think another part of that was  during my high school years you know, before  I went to the reservation in the summer, I would spend all summers at a wilderness camp where we would go rock climbing and backpacking.

And I sort of, as I got older and older in the age groups there, I transitioned from being a camper to being they call them staff counselors. And that was a big part of it, you know, just these interactions with other people. And sharing things that I'm excited about sharing my excitement about hiking, sharing my excitement about rock climbing and then seeing it light up in their eyes.

And that's what keeps me going today when I teach workshops or when I, if I teach a class.  Seeing that spark and sharing that excitement. 

Fantastic. I think I've heard you say about being curious, and I think you're very curious. I think that comes through in a lot of your work as well. So getting into the  thing I'm really keen to get into your story about how you became, how you got in with National Geographic. Can you take, can you recount that for us, Jonathan?

Oh, yeah, of course. You know, I  get a lot of people who asked me that on Instagram or by email or however they get in touch with me and what I tell them and I will get to my story. But what I tell them is I really came at it backwards. Honestly, I think  the vast majority of photographers that work for National Geographic started not in photography.

They started out as scientists. They started out as marine biologists. They started out as entomologists and they realized that they could tell the story of their science better.  And get a wider audience with their photography. So then they taught themselves photography and they brought those two skills together.

And that's how they're. They're doing it. I came at it backwards. I came at it from I want to,  you know, I think even back in high school in the back of my mind, I was like, wow, if I could just work for National Geographic, that would be the ultimate. And so in the way my mind worked, okay, I'll study to be a photographer and maybe I can work for them one day. So when I finished university I moved out west. I moved to Santa Barbara, California,  and there was a school. Unfortunately, it's not there anymore, but it was the best photography school. On planet Earth called Brooks Institute of Photography, and it was also the only school on planet Earth that offered courses in underwater photography  and I enrolled there and I knew I could sort of feed my passion of photography, but there's also lots of great rock climbing out there.

So I could feed my passion or rock climbing at the same time. And when I finished up, that was a three year course. When I finished up that course,  my, my very first  job offer was to go teach in India another graduate of Brooks Institute had, who was an Indian guy had gone to back to his homeland in India.

He'd been a wildly successful photographer. And he wanted to give back. He wanted to start a school in India. So he started a school in South India called Light and Life Academy. It was funded by Kodak. Kodak built the campus for them, this beautiful campus in the Nilgiris.  And he was trying to recruit faculty from Brooks to teach there.

And all the faculty said, we've got a comfortable life in Santa Barbara. We don't, Want to go teach in India. We've got this great, you know, we've got beaches here. We've got this wonderful setting, but Jonathan, he was a good student. You should hire him. So that's what happened. I, I. I went to to India.

I taught and I'll fast forward. And this is all going to loop back to how I got with National Geographic. And give me one second. I got to take a drink of water.  So I finished up I did a two year stint in India teaching. I got a job working for a semester at sea, which is a another teaching gig. We go around the world with 600 students in a ship. And it's just this mind blowing experience for both for me and for them. And when I got back from that, I'd had all these great  life experiences.

Didn't have a lot of money, but I had a lot of you know, a lot of experiences, a lot of frequent flyer miles as it were, and I got a call from my freshman roommate at Virginia Tech. This was the university that my, my dad made me go to that we had agreed that I would go to. And his name was Matt.

Matt called me up. He said, Jonathan, I'm working in Molokai, Hawaii right now. He was a landscape architect.  And I'm working at this retreat center. And next week, the editor in chief of national geographic is going to be here. He comes out every year. He's a big supporter of this retreat center and it's called work camp.

They, he volunteers his time,  paints the walls, hammers boards with, and a bunch of other national geographic photographers are all going to be here doing the same thing. You got to come out and meet these guys. I know that you told me way back in college, you wanted to work for national geographic. I said, Matt, that's, that sounds great, but I'm. 

Totally broke right now. I, you know, I don't have enough money in my bank account to buy a Airplane ticket to Hawaii next week.  And Matt said, look, just call the airline, figure out a way. You got to make this happen, put it on a credit card, whatever you got to do. So I called up United Airlines. I said, look, I know this is a long shot, but is there any way I can cash in my frequent flyer miles for a trip to Hawaii?

Tomorrow. And the guy laughs at me on the phone. And I said, no, seriously, can you at least put it in? I know you're supposed to book these things six months out, but can you at least check the computer? Maybe there's a cancellation. So I hear him typing and he says, actually, sir, if you can be in Los Angeles, I can get you to Honolulu tomorrow.

And I said, book the ticket. And that was that was the start of it. I flew to Honolulu. I then flew to Molokai. I met Bill Allen, who was the editor in chief Of the magazine at that time during that work camp got to know him and I was prepared. I brought images to show and at the end of the week, he said, Jonathan, if you're ever going to be in D.

C. I'd like to introduce you to the director of photography and like you to get to know her. And I had  no reason to be in D. C. You know, there's I was on the West Coast at that time. But I said, Bill, as a matter of fact, I'm going to be in D. C. In three weeks. You think you could set me up? And and that's how it started.

When I met Susan she  looked over my portfolio and she said, this is some nice work. But I think you should go photograph for a newspaper. And I, and in, in my mind, I didn't say this to her, but in my mind, this is now we're fast forward to about 2005, 2006, and that's when every.

Other week, you hear about a newspaper folding. That was the great implosion of news sites. So I said, Susan is okay. If I keep in touch, you said, of course and  I heard nothing back from her. I'd send her pictures every now and then heard nothing after a year went by. Still, it heard nothing. And at that point in my mind.

I was thinking, okay, I've I gave it a shot, I gave it my best shot, but this is obviously not gonna happen. But about a little bit over a year later I got a call from National Geographic and they said, can you come photograph an assignment in Virginia and that was the first assignment.

From that pathway from California to India to semester at sea to Hawaii, you know, and that whole span you know, took a few years.  

That's a journey in itself, planting the seeds, but what was that feeling like when you get the call? 

Absolute panic because  the part of the story I left out is When I got the call the day before I got that call, my, the one camera that I owned broke. So I, I got the call and did not did not own a working camera. But I knew some people at Nikon at that point, and I called 'em up and said, Hey I just got this assignment. Is there any way you can help me on this? And yeah, of course. And so they sent me a couple cameras. I had cameras, but, you know, the,  but I, it was also panic because  honestly.  And this still happens today to me when I get assignments from them. All my excuses go away. You know, I can have a narrative in my head. I really want to do this. I feel really passionate about this. I think I can do this well.  And then you get the assignment.  And you have no more excuses. It's do or die.

I've got to perform. So  yeah, panic without a camera panic because I actually got the job, you know, but both of those things. 

That's fantastic. See if  you like  from the current, from now looking at some of your work compared to your portfolio when you pitched, have you ever compared and contrast and seeing the development and the progress in your work? 

That's a great question. Yeah I think what I've learned  early on when I was taking pictures, I was trying to get a technically perfect shot, you know, absolutely sharp, perfectly well lit with one shot.  One great subject, one thing that would capture the eye and kind of lead you into the frame.

And I, you know, and I'm proud of a lot of that work. It got me started and it got me to where I am today. What I think has changed for me  is  I now realize, and this is through  also through being mentored by a number of older geographic photographers who've shared their wisdom with me.

The more stories that I can fit into one picture, The more powerful, the more impactful that picture is. So instead of trying to tell one story with a picture, if I can get two or three or even four or five stories all into that one frame that's what I'm looking for today. I'm trying to find those moments in time that have multiple stories.

All inside the frame of my lens. 

What was your, what was the first assignment in Virginia? What were you sent to, to capture?  

That was a, that was an assignment and that was in,  I think that was 2008. That was when Adventure Magazine, National Geographic Adventure Magazine was still running. Being published in print  and it was an assignment for them  and they were wanting me to capture, you know, this is also during the Iraq war.

So  the assignment was there was a camp  in Virginia where some Royal, some British Royal Marines were coming to train journalists to go into Iraq.  To photograph and keep themselves alive. And it was a really interesting,  I think it was also one of those doors for me, because at that point in my career, I was also actively considering getting embedded with an army unit to, to photograph.

I was really very seriously entertaining that thought.  And this assignment, we, it was, I think, a five day course.  We would go around the woods, they would shoot live bullets over our heads. You'd hear the crack and the repeat of the bullets. There would be trip wires that were rigged to improvised explosive devices that were just, you know, a little bit of black powder.

It didn't hurt you, but it scared the crap out of you. They taught you how to apply a tourniquet, all those things. So I was photographing this for them and.  That was a wake up call for me, and I think that was a really good first assignment with geographic for me to get because it made me realize that I, I.

If someone wants you dead in a war zone, you're going to be dead in a war zone. You know, a sniper is going to take you out. An improvised explosive device is going to take you out. And it put me on a different path. I at that point stopped entertaining the thought of  going into a war zone and started pursuing  other types of stories. 

Yeah.  And those other stories, I think you've done quite a lot of underwater work  as well, Jonathan. How?  So maybe  Let me reframe that. So if you, how do you  garner the skills and the expertise for things like underwater? I mean, I know you're a climber, you've got the climbing skills, but do you have to go through training for some of your expeditions like underwater or have you been, you know, do you do diving for example?

So how does that come about if you get an expedition or something and you need the skills?  What does that look like?  

Yeah was really fortunate at the photo school that I went to that they had a dedicated underwater photography program. And so it's exactly what you said. You've got to get extensive training because you have to be  comfortable enough diving or breath hold diving.

You have to be comfortable enough in the water that  Managing scuba, managing your buoyancy making sure you're going to stay alive being situationally aware that's all second nature so that you can focus on the photography and the way that I got very fortunate with this is that the school actually had a boat  and during the class we would go out on the ocean for almost four weeks during the course.

Live on the boat, dive six or seven times a day and really master these skills. The boat actually had a film processing lab on it. This is, of course, before the days of digital. So we would dive. We would get up, take the roll of Velvia or Provia out of our cameras, put it in the E6 lab on, on the ship.

And then that same night we could review. The images that we've made, and we could see instantly mistakes that we've made, you know, I think if I were starting today,  and if I were giving advice to myself today I would tell myself master the diving first, you know, get at least an advanced open water scuba certificate diving, get 30 or 40 or 50 dives under my belt and then pick up a camera and start playing with that underwater because there's a whole, you know, Just the way light works underwater.

You have to be very close to your subject matter. A lot of times you have to use artificial lights to make a compelling image. And so that the scuba really has to be second nature at that point. 

Fantastic.  Can I ask, you've got a story around shipwreck diving in Panama. Was it on the hunt for, was it a pirate captain? What was his name? Henry Morgan? Henry Morgan. Yes.  

As in the, as in Captain Henry Morgan's Rome he was a real person. 

Yeah. Wow.  

Yeah. Yeah. 

I didn't, you know, I didn't know that until I was doing research.

I always thought that was a bit of a feeble, but seeing some of the images and what was that, tell us what that was like. Getting the assignment and the actual experience. 

Yeah, that, that was a fantastic, that was my  first foray into sort of maritime archaeology, which has become a a big part of what I'm doing now.

And I got the assignment through a friend who was the cinematographer on that assignment. So he was doing all the underwater video work and they needed a stills guy. To also record the assignment and  it was you know,  just like with almost all assignments when I first got it, it was a little bit of stark terror.

Okay. How am I going to pull this off? At that point I didn't have an underwater camera. I had, you know, back when I was in photo school, I had film underwater cameras, but now it's digital. And digital housings are incredibly expensive. You know, you're talking easily 10 to get a housing and a light set up sometimes  upwards of 20, 000.

So  one of my mentors His name's Flip Nicklin. He's shot 30 or 35 stories for National Geographic Magazine on Wales. I called him up and I said, Flip any chance I can borrow your housing? He said, yeah, no problem. I'll send it to you. So a few days later this, you know, 20, 000 housing shows up in like a, A Walmart cooler and it's duct tape, you know, the top of the cooler is duct tape so that it doesn't and there's no padding in there.

He just stuck his housing in there, put it in the school or duct tape. It shut, send it to me. And was great. I we went down to Panama. It was on the the Gulf of Mexico side and just by the Panama canal, just by the entrance of the Panama canal. And I think with all my jobs.

But especially with this job, one of the best parts about it was working. With the scientists and the archaeologists on this job, because they had the spark in their eyes. They had the same passion that I feel for photography for maritime archaeology and we would, it was crazy. It was crazy.

Chris we were staying at a marina near the mouth of the Panama Canal, but the launch site. To launch out to where we thought the shipwreck was. We had to trailer this little tiny motor boat. That was our expedition vessel was a Ponga fishing vessel. And we'd motor it down to this launch ramp in crocodile infested waters.

And a lot, half the time we went, there'd be trees down on this road. So we brought chainsaws. We'd have to cut the trees out of the way, haul them off the road, get them down to the launch site. And then we'd motor out to where the wreck was. And And I, you know, it was true expedition diving.

There's nothing  whatsoever luxurious. We got one tank a day. That's all we could carry on the fishing ponga. So we had to make it count.  

Wow. We diving at any point  

on that expedition? I don't. Believe we did any nighttimes. It was all during the day, but it was that what made it so exciting.

It was near the mouth of the Chagras River and there literally are quite a number of large population of  crocodiles in the river. And so  with all the rain that kind of keeps the Panama Canal going, you know, they built the Panama Canal there because of these tremendous amounts of rain that come into that part of Panama. 

There's an enormous outflow of mud, and that's why this ship got buried. The ship we were excavating was, it was buried under all this mud, but  the conditions were less than ideal. Most of the time when we were diving, you know, I could maybe see to the, if it was a good day, I could see to the end of my hand under water. Just because of this outflow of mud. So it was,  you know, it made for some spooky moments when you feel something bump your fin. And it's always a teammate, but in your head, it's in your head, it's a crocodile.  

Yeah. Yeah. It must be difficult keeping your nerve trying to get the, get trying to get the stills whilst you've got the environment to contend with. 

Yeah. Yeah. Christ. Yeah.  So what other, Under what are the other underwater work? Have you done Jonathan?  

So the big project that I was working on just before the pandemic hit, this was a multi year project was also in the Gulf of Mexico. This is just off of. The Yucatan peninsula and  with the same guys from Panama we were, and this was a national geographic grant.

We were looking for the Hernan Cortez's lost fleet. When Hernan Cortez came over from Spain, he worked in Cuba for a while as sort of an assistant to the governor of Cuba, and he worked his way up the ranks, the governor of Cuba tasked him with going to And going to Mexico and establishing a colony there.

He sort of double crossed the governor of Cuba and ended up stealing. I think it was 11 or 12 ships. He gets to the coast of Mexico. This is, I'm really compressing this story, but he gets to the coast of Mexico. His men realized that he's double crossed the governor of Cuba. And they say, Cortez, we're going to arrest you and  take you back.

This is sort of the murmuring in his ranks.  One of Cortez's trusted lieutenants heard this murmuring and passed it on to Cortez. And so he scuttled his fleet. He sank all his ships. And he did it sort of in a sneaky way. He told his lieutenants to go out and drill holes in the bottom of the ships.

And they all started to list in the Harbor where they were in Mexico. And then he got all his men together is about 500 men. And he said, man,  look at our ships. They're worm eaten and not seaworthy for the glory of Spain. We're going to scuttle them and stay here and conquer this land.

And his men said for the glory of Spain. And so that was the, that, that was the fleet we were looking for was these, this sort of,  Crux of Western history. You know, this is really  where a lot of the sort of Western globalization  started. Was Cortez going into mainland Mexico? And so we worked on the project for 2 years.

We developed some novel techniques for finding, you know, how on earth do you find a 500 year old shipwreck? That's mostly would has a little bit of, you know,  Iron bolts in it. Cortez would have taken anything valuable off the ships before he scuttled him. He would have taken all the cannon off.

He would have taken all the rigging off. And what we ended up doing, what the team and I ended up doing was developing some novel techniques with magnetometers where we we actually ended up making the most accurate magnetometer survey.  Ever created in Mexican waters to find the dipoles of the ship, a dipole is a little spike of information on, on a magnetometer survey. I wish I could,  maybe I can send you some pictures after the podcast and you can check them out, but we made these incredible maps of the ocean floor. And you could see where any little bit of metal was on the ocean floor through these changes in color on the map. And, you know, 90 percent of the things we found were  fishing anchors or, you know, modern things, but we ended up finding some anchors that  500 year old anchors that dated  to radiocarbon dated to within a few years of when Cortez would have landed and the oak in those anchors were from southern Spain, where Hernan Cortez's ships had come from.

So there's some very strong  circumstantial evidence that's location. Yeah.  

That is incredible. That's, I mean, that's part of history that, that  must fill you full of pride. That's incredible. , that really is,  

yeah. 

Yeah,  because you cover quite a breadth of scientific, cultural, wildlife and stuff.

Do you have any sort of preference or is it just about the experience and story?  

You know, it's. It's funny. You asked me that because that's a question  I asked myself at least once a month. When am I going to, when am I going to grow up and pick a, you know, just one thing to do people, especially the photo editors at National Geographic really want you to specialize in one thing.

And I don't want to specialize in one thing. For me you nailed it. It's about the experience  of being in these different situations. And for me, it honestly. I could care less if that's on the side of a cliff face rock climbing, if that's in a festival in India, or if that's  70 feet underwater documenting a shipwreck, I feel equally passionate  about documenting all those aspects and having those experiences.

And again, I think it really comes down to sort of that, that ADD brain, you know, I just,  I need those things in my life to, to filter out that noise.  

I can relate to that brain. I think  we're in the same camp on the topic actually of images. I took a little post it note here because  just to take a hint. 

Yeah, to talk about some of your work in context of that, that, that point.  I think the  one of the pictures that you took in India with the, I think there's some people on a boat with some wars. I can't remember where it is in India, but that I mean, that. The picture was, is fantastic and then there's a few others around like Lake Oregon, the Starry Nights, there's one of the Milky Way across the Teepees and the Indian Reservation.

So there's quite a broad spectrum of different, but they're all very evocative. You know, they're really intriguing images.  Yeah, there's some fantastic stuff in there.  Sorry, I'm I'm kind of fanboying a little bit, but I just thought I just wanted to raise that. It was some fantastic stuff in there, Jonathan.

And, you know, the image you brought up of the teepees, of the Milky Way over the teepees that's an image that took me 25 years to make, you know, that, that image, when I look at that image,  It's sure. You know, technically, I knew how to do that. But what that image means to me is that was during a National Geographic photo camp  back on the Crow Reservation 20 years after I lived there, and that was the last night of the photo camp.

Photo camp's a great program where they send that geophotographers out. They give a bunch of kids cameras. They bring in National Geographic editors. They have the kids journal every day and storytell with their cameras. And we were Working with these kids about the idea of the crow clan system.

But at the end of that week,  last day of camp, the kids in that TP were supposed to be asleep. And I walked out under the stars  and it just. Brought the last 20 years of my life full circle in that moment. And that's when I look at that picture, what that means to me was, you know, this is 20 years of learning about  not photography, but about life,  you know, and I hope that passion comes through when people see that image  

does. 

You know,  I recommend anyone will come on to that when we wrap up later at the end, but I mean, I have a scan of your Instagram. It's fantastic.  I mean, I like a lot of things to do with the night sky and a lot of the a lot of the starry night imagery you've got is incredible.  

Thank you. 

Do you have a favorite story? To tell that,  relating to any of your images, is it anything that, I hate, I kind of hate asking that to an extent because I don't want to deduce your work or boil it down to one thing. But is it anything that does kind of stick with you,  that's been most impactful on you and your career? 

Oh, gosh. I think I, I don't know if this has been most impactful on my career, but I think one of my  favorite stories to tell about a specific image was one that took me two years to make. And that's the image of the swelling of the swimming swimming elephant in the Andaman islands. And that, you know, that image  came about  because of because of.  I've really wanted television and I'll loop this all back and make sense. But when I was living in Tamil Nadu, when I was living in the Nilgiris when I'd get home from teaching at the photo college I'd get home at night and there'd be nothing to do.

So I, I really wanted to, you know, watch a TV program, especially something that was in English that I understood. So I.  I went to the manager of the place where I was living and said, sure, I'll get you cable TV. No problem. And what he did is he pirated a cable from someone else's TV into my building.

And I'd come home and I'd turn on the TV and it was this wonderful experience. Cause I'd get a different, I got one channel on the TV and I'd turn it on every night. That'd be a different channel. So some nights it would be BBC, some nights it'd be the discovery channel, some nights it'd be national geographic.

And one night I turned on the TV and it was a Jacques Cousteau, it was this old Jacques Cousteau special called Andaman Islands, Invisible Islands. And he talks about  these elephants in the Andaman Islands that would swim, they'd swim between these different islands because there'd be females on some of the islands and males on the other.

And I, the minute I heard that in the special, I could see in my head this shot of an elephant swimming in the ocean, silhouetted against the sky.  And so I instantly, you know, the next day I went back to my boss at the school. I said, Hey, do you know anyone in the Andaman Islands? He said, yeah, actually, I do.

I can introduce you to the director of the forestry department there. And they just happened to be the people in charge of all the elephants. They're not using the elephants.  As working elephants anymore, they were brought there for logging. They don't do that anymore.

They're all the elephants are retired. The elephants actually get a stipend from the government of India of a certain amount of banana leaves every day. And the their caretakers are, you know, subsidized. So he put me in touch with the director of forestry and the director of forestry said, sure, come on over.

I planned a trip six months after that call, get on the airplane. And as I'm  flying on the airplane and I have, you know, all my underwater gear, I'm really excited. I'm going to the Andamans. I've never been there before. That one of the flight attendants hands me the newspaper from Port Blair, the Port Blair times.

And the front page story of the Port Blair times was. Chief Minister of Forests indicted for corruption, and this is the person that had given me permission for this whole expedition to come here, because at that point, I don't know if it's still the same, but at that point, you had to have permission to be there.

of sort of a military installation. So I knew that. It was like a gut punch on the airplane before I even touched down. I knew that the, this whole planning process I'd gone through was off the table.  When I landed, I went into the Department of Forestry and said, Hey, I, you know, this person give me permission.

Can I still do this? And I said, no, absolutely not. This person's corrupt. They're in jail. You got to start over. And so I did. I started over. I met the interim director who became the full time director and they eventually gave me permission to come back and photograph the elephants swimming between the islands.

So two years later. After the fact I'm on a dugout canoe. This is on, I'm not going to name the island I did this on, but it was on one of the minor islands  outside of Port Blair. And I was on a dugout canoe at a settlement of maybe 20 people who lived in this village. And every day the Mahouts in this village would swim their elephants. 

It was just part of their daily ritual, their daily bathing routine. And they'd swim the elephants out of the ocean. They'd scrub them down. So I'm waiting there for this to happen. I talking to the people in the In the village, they were all excited for me to be there. And that's how the frame of the swimming elephant happened.

And I think what I learned from that experience is sometimes it just takes a long time to get to what I see in my head. In that case, it took me two years to get there, but you know, if I don't give up, I can get there eventually.  

That's a fantastic story. We'll link to that in post production because I did have, I did see that's on I think the front page of  one of your sites. 

That's fantastic.  In terms of  Conscious of Time  as well, Jonathan, and kind of moving on from, you know,  from that a little bit because you're doing teaching and stuff, aren't you now? And you're doing expeditions. Can you tell how does that work? Is that part of like your day job now or are you still on expeditions for  doing photography as well?

What's, what does a day in the life of Jonathan look like these days?  

Yeah I'll tell you it's changed a lot recently because I've had a daughter she's six now, but it changed radically when that happened. I went from being on the road you know, 150, 160 days a year to significantly less these days.

And it's not a bad thing. You know, we have different seasons in our life and I'm in that season now and I'm loving every minute of it. But I still get to yeah, do some, you know, my, my goal is to do a couple, two, three, maybe four. Shorter expeditions a year. And what those look like now for me is a little different than what it looked like in the past.

What I  actually, what I just got back from was It's sort of a hybrid of what you're asking me about. It was a teaching travel expedition with National Geographic and they run these trips all over the world, different types of trips. Some are on boats, some are on trains and some are on airplanes.

And I just did an airplane trip that started in Washington, D. C. And went west until we got back to Washington, D. C. We stopped at I think 12 different countries along the way. And so I, I was lecturing on those trips about photography but I was also  Photographing the trip as a record for both the people traveling on the trip and for national geographic.

That 

sounds that sounds  really interesting. What is that? Is that people that were  vacationing or people that were trying to learn photography? What? What was that?  

That's this. Yeah, that specific trip I was just on the vast majority of people were vacationing. They wanted to see as much of the world in as short a period of time as possible.

And boy, did we accomplish it. We had sort of a highlight seven wonders of the world Trip. They, we all, you know, it was a great trip. But there were a handful of people on that trip.  Oh gosh. I think I'd been to a lot of the places that we visited, but I think what really stood out for me on this trip was the Serengeti.

I had spent some time in Tanzania 20 years ago. I'd been to Nagorgo or crater to the Arusha area, but I'd never really made it out into the Serengeti. And that was just.  I could spend months out there. It was, I don't have any other word, but magical for the experience seeing the wildlife,  just being out there in the middle of nature watching sunrise.

over the Serengeti is, you know, I wish everyone on planet earth could have that experience. I know it's not possible, but I wish they could. It's incredible.  

Fantastic. Have you published much work from that? Is that why you were jet lagged? Cause you've just been  flying around the world. 

That's I, that's the worst jet lag that I've been in my life was after that, after this most recent trip.

Yes, it was. No, you know, I'll be I will be posting very soon on Instagram. Once I get a chance to do a little more editing there'll be a number of posts coming up from that trip. So if anyone wants to see those just tune into that.  

Yeah,  excellent. Excellent. I'm conscious of time.

I just wanted to touch on the work that you're doing with the, was it the Submerged Archaeological Conservancy International, if I've Got that correct. You got it. What is that? Not, yeah,  not for profit. Yeah. Tell us what it is if you don't mind in your words, Jonathan. So I don't butcher it. 

Yeah. It's the same group of guys from the Cortez project and the Panama project.

And we sat down and realized that there was an opportunity to kind of merge a couple of things that we felt passionately about. We all feel passionately. About maritime archaeology and preserving those cultural heritages. But we also feel passionately about ocean preservation. And we kind of looked at what was in the nonprofit landscape and realized that, you know, there was an opportunity to marry those two things.

A lot of these shipwrecks that we're looking at. Are they're doing a couple of things. They're providing a tremendous amount of habitat for sea creatures, but also underneath those shipwrecks in the layers of mud and sand underneath is sort of a time capsule of the Earth's atmosphere as we drill down into that. 

Oxygen free environment down there. We can pull up core samples that really talk about how, you know, carbon dioxide is changing the atmosphere and things like that. So the idea behind it is,  as we find and conserve some of these shipwrecks and tell. The cultural side to also potentially inspire ocean preservation, either specifically around those sites or in greater areas of the ocean. 

And is it targeting any specific ocean or any specific part of an ocean?  

No it's targeting. It's targeting just any cultural resources that are in the ocean. You know, sunken wrecks there's some World War II possibilities with, you know, sunken airplanes and yeah, so it's a Pretty wide net that we're casting with that organization. Yeah, 

one of the, 

yeah, one of the most, and this is a, I don't know if we have, I probably don't have time for the whole story, but we were. Heading out to St. Vincent this summer to excavate the Hunan, which is the sister ship of the Hermione. And it was lost in a hurricane in 1780.

And that is one assignment that I never made it to. I had everything in my boxes. I was on the airplane. I got to, as far as la. And they didn't have enough pilots to get me from L. A. to Miami. And there's only one flight a day from Miami to St. Vincent, or one flight a week from Miami to St. Vincent. So I missed my flight in L.

A. They told me I could get there, you know, a week later. And by that time the assignment was over. Sometimes I don't make it to the assignments,  but you know, it's all part of, it's all part of the adventure.  

Yeah. On that, is there any assignments  that you haven't had that you would love to have, or any idea that you've got that you want to pitch to National Geographic to fulfill some sort of aspiration or bucket list? 

Yeah, that's a great question. There's more than one, but  think the one at the top of my list right now would be actually going back to the Carolina Reservation and there's a lot of very interesting  cultural traditions that go on there sun dances things like that and just to tell that story of those cultural traditions to a wider audience, I think could be a very interesting thing.

And it's something that's been on my mind a long time. I'm trying to find the hook for it. There's, you know, every story I pitch has got to have a hook. It's got to answer the question why now? Why is it relevant right now, today? And it's got to answer the question, why National Geographic?

And so that's what I'm doing. I'm just working on it. I've got to find the answer to those two questions before I pitch it to him.  

That that's something that, that really intrigues me. So that when you, the life of a National Geographic photographer, if you get an idea like this, do you have to go and pitch this to some of the execs and, you know, really get them to buy into the project?

What does that look like?  That process? 

Absolutely. It is you know, speaking totally honestly, it can be a very heartbreaking process. Yes I have to pitch. Everyone has to pitch their National Geographic only has two actual staff photographers, Mark Thiessen and Becky Hale. They're wonderful people.

They live and work in D. C. They have a little bit of a different arrangement because they're staff photographers, but for everyone else, it's a contractor like myself. Essentially we eat what we kill. You know, we bring ideas  to editors. We pitch them the idea. We'd sell them on the idea.

And then if we're lucky, not only do they like the idea, but they  think that we're the right photographer to do it. So there's been pitches where I've given an idea or pitched an idea and it was the right idea, but I wasn't the right photographer. So they gave it to another photographer. And the first time that happened,  it was absolutely heartbreaking.

But then down the road, I got an assignment that another photographer had pitched and they weren't the right photographer. And I was you know, it. It sort of goes around and comes around.  

Okay, so it's like the law of the jungle in the boardroom. 

Yeah, a little bit. 

Yeah.  Jonathan, like  Again, not trying to deduce this, I know your story is very different, but for anyone listening or watching that may be into photography, maybe it's their passion or something that they would, you know, like to explore.

How does one come about getting in contact with National Geography and getting an idea in front of them? How would they go about doing that?  

I think the, there's two ways to do it right now that I would say are the best. Best way right now . One way is through an internship every year. They offer internships and you can google national geographic internships and google will return that search result.

That's a highly competitive spot. I think there's one or two offered a year. A lot of those go to people that are studying journalism.  So that's the hard way right now. The  Second way, which is also hard, but maybe gives a few more options, is through  a grant, a storytelling grant.

And if you what I would recommend is if they go to the National Geographic Society. Website. There's extensive information on how you can submit grant ideas. And that is something that, that I'm doing. I write grants all the time. I, and just like with story pitches, some of them get accepted.

I think I'm over 50 percent acceptance rate right now, but some of them get rejected. And it's,  you know, it's a long process. When I write a grant, it's usually a multi week process.  And when they say yes, it's the best feeling in the world. When they say, no, I'm absolutely crushed. You know, it's a roller coaster, but that's part of 

it.

But that's, I think an equally great way. Is through storytelling grants with National Geographic Society. 

Excellent. Thank you. That's very insightful. Thank you. I really appreciate you sharing that. Thank you. As we are coming up on time, I want to step into our 2 closing traditions I've got on the show, 1 of which is a call to adventure and the other is the paid forward suggestion.

What would your call to adventure be?  

I would give  anyone the advice that  I give myself that was given to me and that's  to follow your curiosity, follow your excitement, you know, ask yourself  what's exciting you right now. There's a reason when I feel that tingle of excitement, there's something calling me to that.

And whether that's, you know, for me that's getting on a maritime archeology assignment or that's going and doing a story on the side of a cliff. It's going to be different for everyone, but there's a reason I think we have  These tingles of excitement in us and to honor that to listen to that to give that excitement time to really speak to you and say yes to it.

Don't say no. Don't find an excuse  to not do it. Find an excuse to say yes to that curiosity.  

Excellent. I couldn't agree more. Excellent.  And finally, the pay it forward suggestion. So an opportunity for you to raise awareness for any worthy projects or causes that you're involved with or are dear to your heart.

What would your pay it forward suggestion be?  

Oh, yeah, thanks. Thanks so much for asking, Chris. You know, I would love if anyone does have excitement for ocean preservation for maritime archaeology Go to the SACI website, the Submerged Archaeological Conservancy International it's S A C I dot org.

And all the information is there about how to get involved with the projects that I'm involved with.  

Excellent. Yeah, I was having a little look around that earlier today and I will get that listed. Excellent. Thank you, Jonathan. A very worthy cause. Yeah, this has been excellent.

I'd really, yeah, I've really enjoyed this conversation. It's been so insightful. And yeah, you've got so many stories that I have kind of struggled a little bit trying to pick out some of your images and your photographs, your stories to try and draw.  Draw out some of the best, but you know, it's difficult.

20 years of adventure and exploration into one hour as a challenge in its own right. But I do thank you for your time.  

Yeah, sure thing, Chris. Thanks. Thanks for reaching out. It's been really a pleasure talking with you today.  

Yeah, thank you. So any plans for anything that you're excited about in the short term, medium term, Jonathan, that you've got in the pipeline? 

Oh, gosh. You know, I'm headed to the Solomon Islands and in February, I'm going to be doing some diving there. And that's, yeah, that's in the short term, top of the list of excitement right now.  Just getting the dive gear together.  

Yeah, fantastic. So where can people follow along for Jonathan Kingston and get all your insights into your stories and your fantastic work? 

Oh, thanks, Chris. You know, I think probably the best place really almost the only place I'm somewhat active on. I'm not very active on social media, but it's it's my instagram, which is just at Jonathan Kingston J. O. N. A. T. H. A. N. K. I. N. G. S. T. O. N. And I post there sometimes once a month. Sometimes I get inspired and I'll post multiple times a month.

So that's the best place.  

Yeah, fantastic. Excellent. We'll get that listed. Get all your all the links and stuff into the show notes as well. So thank you again, Jonathan. It's been fantastic.  

Thank you, Chris. Really appreciate it. 

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode for the show notes and further information, please visit adventurediaries.

com slash podcast. And finally, We hope to have inspired you to take action and plan your next adventure, big or small, because sometimes we all need a little adventure to cleanse that bitter taste of life from the soul. Until next time, have fun and keep paying it forward.