Koekje Jar Stables

S1 E21 Podcast host, Stacy Pearsall, sits down with EBRA Members, Jen, Emma, and Hein Manders of Koekje Jar Stables, to chat about their family's European Brabant breeding program in the Netherlands and their Ohio-based European Brabant breeding program in Northwest Ohio.

Transcript

0:00

Today on the podcast, we are going back into the archives a couple of years to a conversation we had with the Manders family of Koekje Jar Stables in Ohio. Let's get started. This is the Brabant Bulletin brought to you by the European Brabant Registry of America, where people, passion and preservation are our mission. Hello, everybody. I'm Stacy Pearsall, one of the contributing editors to the Brabant Bulletin. And I am bringing you the member's highlight and I am sitting with the Manders family. Hi, y'all. How are you doing? We're good. How are you? Good. All right, well, let's get to know you. Let's start with Emma. Emma, tell us a little bit about. About who you are. I'm nine years old and I ride horses. What else do you do with horses? Do you have breeding horses? Yes, you do. And where did you learn about horses? The stables where I ride. How many years have you been riding? Seven think. Seven years? Well, for a nine year old, that's pretty much your whole life. Okay, Emma, please introduce your parents. This is Jen Manders. And that's [weirdo] Hein. Hello. Hi. Whoa. So we have. Hein, Jen and Emma and tell me a little bit about your horse farm. So we are Koekje Jar Stables. We are located in northwest Ohio. Helena, Ohio. This was not our our big plan. This wasn't in the plans at all to start a Brabant horse farm. But that's where the plans have led us. We were on vacation visiting Oma and Opa, and we the three of us, actually went on a bike ride and we came back and Verda, which is our horse is Mom Cookie’s mom went into labor, so Emma decided she was going to help the vet. And at this time she was four, four years old. And then, of course, you know, Opa let her name it. So she named it Princess Emma. And it kind of stuck. And Opa called one day and said, Are you ready for Emma? We're like, We have one. We don't need another one. He's like, Nope, she's on her way. So that was the beginning of everything. So and I would tell you a little bit about the history of the family. Yeah, I would love to little know a little bit more about that. My dad breeds European Brabants, probably 50 years already. 52 years. Your grandfather didn’t he? And my grandpa did too. We are the fifth generation together with my Brabant’s stable name is de Vinkenpeel. And together with my uncle who lives next door. That's just the stable name Wooldink That's all how it started. And this is in the Netherlands. That's all in the Netherlands. My dad always enjoyed breeding horses and that's why it breeds always better than good, good horses. Not not always the best, but always, really, always. First in the class or second in the class, but never won any major titles, won one major, but my uncle did a little bit better. But those two stable names, pretty much all how it started came from the same family. Is there a particular bloodline that your family concentrates on or rotating through different bloodlines, the de Vinkenpeel or but Cookie is still the original bloodline from 50 years ago. Well, and we've actually tracked that back in some books, you know, where we can go through old registration papers and we've tracked it back all the way back, which is kind of cool. And so your family name is all the way back the 50 years. Yeah, in the studbooks too? That's pretty cool. Yeah. Is there a certain type or style of Brabant that you like particularly or that you're breeding for? in the Netherlands? Well, bigger the better. But I think over here we have to don't go always bigger because we go otherwise you go to the the American American Belgian not Belgium but Belgian. I think we're breeding... that’s too tall. Yeah, we're breeding more of the old style, the short and stocky as to where some of the farms when we went and visited this last time you know their mares and some of their studs are, you know, they're 16, 17 hands. And to me it looks like an American. Belgian. you know, is just missing the hair color and I kind of like the the, the big and husky if you're pushing 18 hands, that's that's in my opinion too tall. Yeah. That's too big of a horse. Venna is going to be around that. So I saw I saw some pictures on your Facebook of you showing Emma Brabants How was that for you? Good. Do you remember do you remember showing Cookie? A little bit, Yeah, you did, Tatum. You did harvest in hand. Yeah. And she was she was the only one there because she was the only draft horse, but she did really good. And then she actually we have a fore cart and her and Cookie have done some for carting and we haven't done it in a while because you know, we have been breeding and that kind of stuff. And I always feel bad. I'm like, don't make her pull me around. She's pregnant. I know what that feels like. So. And time. Yeah, and time has been constraints, but Emma and Hein both can drive and Cookie. Cookie loves it. Cookie has the personality of Eeyore I mean, she's just like, okay, fine, let's do it. Whatever. Sassy. So. But yeah. So do you get a lot of questions when you take your horses, particularly your Brabants out off the farm? Do people know or ask questions about them? We have a lot of people that stop and ask us questions on our farm. Okay? We get you know, we're just out in the middle and no place in the country in northwest Ohio. And we have a lot of people that stop alongside the road, especially now since we have a little Ben Stein out there and he runs around like, you know, he has nothing better to do. And, you know, we'll be out in the yard doing something and they'll be like cars parked in front of our pasture. And I'm like, they're just watching the baby. And, you know, which is kind of cool. And some of them will pull in the driveway and ask and that kind of stuff. We haven't taken cookie to any like events since a couple of years ago, and she was actually at that farm when we took her to that event. That's where she got all her training at. So everybody that was there knew her. We do still get a lot of people that question about her over there because the farm that I work at is where we had her and we do 250 lessons a week of mostly children and a lot of our kids are autistic and that kind of stuff. And, you know, they were just fascinated with Cookie and her size and they would literally just open the gate and Cookie would just stay on her and let those kids do whatever they're like, my God, she came with the big horse. We're like, Yeah, that's the safest one. So but yeah, we still get a lot of questions. We're contemplating maybe taking her to some fairs this summer, but it all depends on how the foal goes and that kind of stuff. So. So let's talk about the foal. You recently had a stud colt, is that right? Yes, it was. That what you were hoping for? Is he a keeper or is he going to find a new home? Find a new home? Yeah. Okay. What were you hoping for, Emma? A girl. Was a girl going to be a keeper? Yes. well, next time, are you going to breed her back? Yes. We've been breeding, to? Do you remember? Where? Doesn't it start with me? Yes, it does. Victor. Victor. Dr. Hernando. So from Doctor Plata in Kentucky in Kentucky, we went down and visited Dr. Plata and she liked him. So he's a very sweet stud. Yeah. Hein, I know how you got into Brabants. Jen and Emma, are you in a Brabants because Hein brought that passion with him or what? What's your Brabant stories? So I did not grow up with horses. I grew up with beef cows, and it's crazy. You know, that silly commercial on TV from PBS or from the kids thing. It says you keep those kids active for 60 minutes a day or you know, they won't they won't grow up right now like, my God, what are we going to do? And then I saw an ad for horse riding lessons. I'm like, let's go do that. And well, we've been doing that every Saturday or every Friday now for seven and a half years. And then we started getting into showing I showed beef cattle. So I was like, Yeah, we can show horses, I don't care. And so that just kind of started it. And then it was probably the first trip when Hein and I went over to the Netherlands that I'm like, you know, they're kind of cool, they're laid back, they're big, They don't, you know, she doesn't seem to care about anything and, you know, would let anybody do anything to her. So and I think that was a passion. And there was a lot of when we come home after Cookie was born and Emma was there, that, you know, every time Opa would call, it's how's my horse? How's my horse and that kind of stuff from Emma. So it was kind of, you know, she was always checking on her and that kind of stuff. So I'd say it was actually more Emma's passion than Hein and our passion. I still don't think that it was the path that either one of us would have said, you know, when we were dating, Hey, we're going to get horses. I would have said bye, But that's where it's led us to now, and it's just growing now. So but yeah, it was all Emma's passion and none of ours. Tiny little bit. So, Emma, when did you know that you wanted Brabants? When you saw the baby? you just wanted Cookie, didn't you? Yeah, well, I really not. Didn't want her until I actually got her. Yeah, and Cookie was pretty easy to train. Was like, Yeah. So and that and that helps is that, you know, they're, they're honestly they're gentle giants, you know, I've heard other people say that about their horses and stuff, but honestly, Cookie will do anything you ask her to do. She remembers you know what you tell her. You know, she has a she has a drill. She has to go through every night before she can go in the barn and she knows it. And, you know, you can just stand there and she's like, okay, fine. And she'll do it. And then she knows she can go in the barn, she gets her treat. But if she doesn't do it, she don't get her treat. And, you know, it's I think it's that and it's just you know, it's they're just very calm and easy to work with. The only thing she can't do is walk without her baby. Yeah. You know, to have her baby. She's a pretty protective mother then. Yes. Yes. Very, very last. She was way more protective. Was that her first baby last year. Yes. Yeah. So she's getting a little better every time. Yes. That's good. She's protective, but not in a mean way. Yeah, just protective. Yeah, Yeah. Hey, Brabanters, It's Joe here with less than 7000 European Brabants left on the planet. The European Brabant Registry of America's Mission is to preserve and protect this ancient breed, and it's needed now more than ever. You don't have to own a Brabant to help them become a member of the EBRA today and support efforts to safeguard this heritage breed for future generations. Visit www.europeanbrabant.com and join us today. And now back to the show. So you imported recently, you brought how many to fillies is over? Two fillies now and you're going to keep cookies full sister. And you got one that's on the market now. Yep. Yep. Do you want to tell us a little bit about. About her. My dad's OPA. He had a Cookies full sister. As you can ship her over the place, so. Okay, we'll, we'll think about it so you can’t ship alone. So he need to have two. We go. First of all, it's cheaper of shipping. We're full. He can do either one or two or four in the stall. And the feeling is you do three boxes of a shipping crate. So. And you never let a strange horse with your horse. And together and in a stall. So we need to have two. Then then we didn’t have the budget for four. So we did two my dad's, and I told but there are those two. It doesn’t matter what you find, either a stud or a filly. So he checked with his friends. He came up with Emma and Emma actually the comes from the same family for my what my dad that he bought a horse when he was starting his dairy farm 52 years ago and he bought that one and that foal out of her was the first foal the he had out of her. So. Sold it and that are that's out of the mother’s line, that's where the Emma comes from. The model line produced already quite a few champions. He looked at that Filly. Mom is 14 or 15 years old. Legs just like concrete, nothing, no CPL nothing going on. So and not at all. She's probably 15.1 or maybe 15.2. That's a good candidate. So he bought her for me. And they put it to get together on with Venna. I met the horse from my dad, raised was ready for breeding. He brought her home at my dad's farm breeding them together. And they together ever sense So supposed to be December was the time to ship them over. But the shipping company didn't have any half stalls. The was made too many horses. We needed that third box instead of a half a box. So we had to wait till the other side's box was sold too. So they came in February. And if I look back, I'm glad I waited till February. Those if you shipping in October, November. It's in my opinion, it's too soon. It's too stressful, too stressful for them to the just been weaned a month or two and then because shipping is a big thing it's not there's not that you just put them on the plane or those horses they got the big stress on them in February and February. The oldest one was ten months old. Then the other one was eight and they handle really well. So well. They have to go to the to the port first. Did you ship from Belgium, from Belgium, from like to JFK and then ground transported to Ohio? No. Then they actually have to go to the first state, New York to the ODAR The USDA. USDA Guarantee plays a new Newburge for three days and we picked them up over there. Yeah. So you went and hauled yourself up in February? man. They went some called the out of my brother in law. But what tips would you give to somebody who's considering doing the import process? Was there anything that you you kind of gleaned from your experiences because you did it twice, right, with Cookie and then you're lucky I'm good friends with Jeroen Gaal. When Cookie came over Jeorone sold the three horses from Hernando and I think there was one more. And Jeroene told my dad for me the the store room on the plane. You want to send Cookie over? That's how it actually came along. Okay, so you shared a box with two other Americans, I think, right? Yes. I think this time I dealt with Jeroene too my. But my dad is almost 80, 79. So paperwork. You doesn't do that. It's hard for him. So I told I asked Jeroene if you wanted to do it so he was the contact person between the shipping company and my dad so it was a had to be blood drawn for the and import papers are export papers are all the veterinary. You told my dad what to do and so that was helpful for other persons. Well I would recommend go visit if you don't know don't know nobody. I would go visits plane tickets is only $700 to $1,000. It's a cheap, cheap, cheap way to find your horses. Yeah. You're spending 10,000 plus 15,000 with shipping and purchase price on a horse. And then a thousand bucks is nothing. So and you gain so much experience. What would you recommend to people who are going to make the trip over? What would you recommend? They link up with somebody who knows the breeders over there or how would they get in touch with them? yes, ask for it. Just like on your European Brabant page or the EBRA Forum who you recommend. That's what I did with Rebecca and Dehan last time. And they went over, I gave them a couple addresses to go visits, especially because Rebecca had trouble with AI’ing with a repro. And I told to do my the stud farm and my dad always worked with AI’d from the beginning. So that's probably already 30 years. So he's not he's not the perfect person. But they they all can share information. So it's interesting you bring that up about reproduction. So a lot of breeders here do live cover breeding and are maybe a little bit reluctant about artificial insemination. Do you have any sort of advice you'd like to to give folks out there who may be on the fence about it? We've actually never done a live cover. We've only done the artificial insemination. My recommendation would be to definitely find an equine specialist. But first of all, when you're dealing with your horses, our vet clinic that we use is actually has two veterinarians in the building and all they do is horses all week long live it, love it. That's all they do. And we actually use our vet then as our our breeder, he has a very nice setup. We do it at his facility right there. You know we take Cookie and in the morning he checks or he gives us the go get it, you know or we're going to hold off for another couple of days. He actually keeps Cookie in the hole for us at the at the vet clinic. He has a pasture and everything and we leave then stay there. It's just less stressful on them. And the last thing you want to do is give her more stress, you know, by transporting and hauling her baby and unloading and all that. So if we can keep her at the vet office and she's calm, cool and collective and able to breed the next morning, so transporting her back in, it's so much easier keeping up on your vet papers, your vaccinations, your worming and everything like that, and make sure they have a really good body condition. If they don't have that good body condition going into the pregnancy, there's really no purpose. You're never going to gain that body condition back if you go in at a low body score. So, you know, keeping them in their top on top of their game is probably the most important, especially last trimester of pregnancy. Yeah, because that's how when the follicle is already made for the next pregnancy. So if they got the negative body negative energy balance at that time, then you never can produce a good egg. So minerals feed feed plenty of minerals now and that was something that feeding we feed tribute calm and easy and hay she doesn't get much grain and pasture Yeah and Dr. Plata it was one of them that told us he's like, make sure she gets her trace minerals. So. BLOCK Salt lacks salt. Salt block, You know, put it in a bucket, and Cookie always knows where it is, and it's kept her in good body condition. So, Emma, you ride light horses. Are you going to make the switch to riding your heavy? No, probably not. No, We have tried because Cookie's broke. She's just too big for stride, so. Just way too big. Yeah. You get bigger. Will you do it then? Maybe. Maybe, Yeah. We had some really good trainers that broke cookie to do Western showmanship and western pleasure. And Cookie. Looks like she's enjoying it when she's doing it. I don't know. She really is or not. But yeah, her stride is quite big and when she rolls those shoulders and was like, I feel like the saddle falling off and I'm like that and I got on Cookie and I don't ride it. And I'm like, and I just walked around the big arena. I'm like, Yeah, I can see what I'm talking about now. So that's what's so enjoyable about the sort of ambling rolling gait. Yeah, I just love a good trail ride on a Brabant. It's the best. And it was kind of funny. The trainer that we had on her, he just graduated from college, from equine college, and he was doing the training when she was in high school and he would get Cookie into a full lope almost like, you know, a full on gallop. And it felt like the earth was moving. Yeah, People heard it a mile away. Yes, Yes. Everybody stopped and turned. I'm like, She's fine and I don't ride. So. do you, do you do any harness work Hein? No, I don’t have any time. Not enough time that's there to get to the. My daily job as a manager of 2,200 cows. Dairy cows. So when I come home then I enjoy the horses and spending time with them, but not close riding. Or maybe driving in the future. Emma Do you think you'll do any halter classes with them? Maybe in the future? Yeah. I heard that you did you go to a show while you were over there in the Netherlands? A jumping show? Yes, you did. That was that very cool. They were jumping like four or five, six feet. No. Five feet. Five feet. But there were some Olympic jumpers there from the Netherlands team. So it was kind of neat. Wow. Because we don't we don't go to any of the jumping shows around here. So it was something different for us to see. We didn't go to any Brabant shows, So that's what is the number one thing you think that makes a Brbaant great, just how calm they are. Sometimes their jog, they're really pretty when they run huh? Their feathers. What's the one thing people people don't know about a Brababnt that you think is really interesting? Easy keepers I think. Yeah, they can go a long way with nothing, barely anything. So they pretty much get fat on air. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything you'd like to add or that you would like to tell us about your farm or anything? We’re always open for visitors? Anybody ever wants to stop by or we have one spare room so we can kick Emma out of her room to spare. No, I like my room. They're fun horses. I think they're like the perfect family horse for somebody that wants, you know, I don't want to say a pasture pet, but a pasture pet that, you know, they can have a little bit of fun with. And it's not high maintenance. You know, you can keep them on, unshoed and that kind of stuff out in the past year, as long as you're not on the road and, you know, they're pretty docile. You know, we had to teach Cookie everything from English to what garage doors were, where the teachers were. Hay was, you know, and and pellet feed. And, you know, she was she was an easy learner. She learned a lot. She learned what cross ties were. You know, we put her in a set of cross ties because we work with light legged horses all the time. And I walked away to get a set of brushes and she followed me with it with the cross ties. She'd never seen them before. She's like, I don't know what these things are, but that's who I'm with, so I'm going to follow her, you know? And she just followed me. She didn't know what else to do, you know, and she had never seen it a garage door open before. You know, they're kept outside over there. And now, you know, so for her to be in a stall, she's like, I don't know what you people are thinking, but, you know, so she's it's amazing how far they have come. Even the two we have now, Venna and Emma, It's amazing how far they've come in the short time that they've been here. And with his work schedule and my recent work schedule, we haven't had much time to work with them. But you know, they know a lot of a lot of stuff already for only being here for a couple of months. And I think that's I don't think a lot of people give them that much credit for that. You know, everybody's like, it's just a horse. She has eaten their hay burners. Well, you know, she doesn't have to be a hay burner, she can go and do whatever you want her to do. You want to ride Western? She can do it. You want to write English, she can do it. You want your showmanship, she can do it. You want to pull a log out of the woods, She'll do it. You know, she's she's eager to do anything, and she's here to please you. Really? Not us. Please her. So how can people reach out to you and your farm? We're on Facebook at Koekje Jar Stables, but cookie jars filled with a K O E K J E, which is Dutch for Cookie. Well, I'll let you get back to your evening. I really again your time. Thank you. Bye Bye. Bye Emma. Bye.