Sir Lee Pearson - Equestrian Excellence

In this iconic 'LIVE' episode of "Moving Mission," we're thrilled to host Sir Lee Pearson, an icon in the Paralympic world with an illustrious career who has won many gold medals. 

Sir Lee shares his inspiring journey from overcoming significant physical challenges to becoming a multi-gold medalist in dressage. He delves into the physical and mental aspects of competing at the highest level, his passion for equestrian sports despite being born with a severe disability, and his advocacy for adaptive sports equipment.

Join us as Sir Lee offers a candid look at the realities of elite competition, his life beyond the podium, and his plans for the future. 

This episode is a profound exploration of resilience, dedication, and the pursuit of excellence.

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:02

Hello, and welcome to the moving mission podcast with me Amory Martin from DD dance, and me, Jack wills, the one that dancer Join us as we discussed the importance of moving its impact inclusion and benefits for both physical and mental health. Okay, welcome to this episode of the moving mission podcast. And this week, we have got another guest. We have got a serve with us this evening. We have got sir Lee Pearson, C. V, who is going to talk to us about his multi gold medal winning at various Olympic Games, and he sports and how that has helped his physical and mental health. Welcome. Thank you. But you said the Olympic Games that's the warm up class. The Olympics goes first all the logistics sorted out and then the public Olympians come along for the main competition. Yes, very good. Thank you. I didn't

Lee Pearson: 0:57

even put me in the warmup.

Anne-Marie Martin: 1:00

Point. I do apologise. So welcome, Lee. We met through court one children, which is where we are today with lots of vendors, fabulous activity providers, talking about children's activities week, and we thought it'd be great opportunity as an ambassador for the charity to join us today and tell us about what you do and all the amazing achievements that you have made. So can you tell us a little bit about how you got into what you do growing up and about your disability? Yeah, I was born in the countryside. I went to a specialist school which my parents fought to get me into mainstream school. But when I was younger, that wasn't the norm as such. And the teachers in the specialist school

Unknown: 1:45

said to my parents, he's he's too quick at thinking and he's too quick answering questions. He's not giving anybody else a chance, please, can we move him? Because he said no, originally, and then and then eventually said that Lee could go to a mainstream school if he had a carer to look after him. And my mom said, No, not at all. He's not having a carer or looking after him. He's strange enough as it is never mind going to school with a middle aged lady following him around everywhere. You'll carry his own bags or you'll make friends and they'll carry his bags, but no anyway, so kind of always encouraged to kind of be as active as possibly can be. And the standard joke for getting into going around in circles with horses. The sport of dressage is that I couldn't pedal a BMX bike. So my balance is really good. But my condition is all through a guy faces multiplex congenita. And if we're on a night out, I can't say that either or spell it. But it means that when I was in my mom's womb, the muscle fibres in my body, your muscle fibres grew like elastic band, my muscle fibres grew like string. So in term when they were trying to the joints were trying to grow the muscle fibres were restricting that so I was born biases area and very twisted body. If the major operations 14 up to the age of six, so basically that foot my right foot was wrapped around my left knee, left foot was wrapped around my right knee, my arms were deadly straight, totally septum, a disability half my face, I had a birthmark and a birthmark on top of my head as well. So they remove the one on top of my head and and then apparently the one on our side of my face. Not that I ever get angry. But my mom's is the only person in the world that can see the red this birthmark was all those operations and then I just have a BMX that took the pedals off because my legs are encased in plastic. That's what I was getting out from my hips to my heels. So my crutches take half of my weight and my leg splints take the other half of my weight. So when your legs are fixed as you can't pedal, so I have no pedals taken off my BMX bike and he's just rolled down the hills and then push it back up again and roll back down again until it's exhausting. Let's just get a donkey so I was the only person in the village with a heavy BMX bike called Sally and Sally was an awkward bog or used to put most people off and I don't think she ever bought me off I don't know why because my horses since have always tried to get rid of me on a regular basis. I have broken smash my elbow completely broke my back and four places but my collarbone Burma thing been unconscious twice airlifted out a few other ones so when I'm doing a speech for businesses I go I was able bodied before I started don't ever get involved with horses and don't let your kids get involved with horses either too expensive so yeah, I had Sally the donkey she wouldn't turn right so I was already working out how to train horses how to do three quarters of the circle left off in the right direction. And and then

Lee Pearson: 4:44

when I'm working class so my mom and dad were like 13 You're getting a job so I worked at the local shoot. in all weathers like today it was a horrific weather marking off scoring and freezing to death on the quad bike scoring for clay pigeon shooters and then Um, nobody wants to employ a severely disabled person. So we did YTS for the Co Op, and then I got a job there. That was a two year course I am officially allergic to horses. I take antihistamines every day. I know. I know. If he is up there he's having a bit of a laughing really. But I do joke that I'm allergic to paperwork. So sat in an office, opposite to miserable old ladies doing punching numbers into a keyboard like was kind of like wrist slitting like situation for me. So I did actually become depressed. take antihistamines for that now, but wouldn't the word science obviously these women, I tell you, and then I saw the Atlanta Paralympics on television. But interestingly, and I think I suppose we can all learn from listening to different people. Since mum and dad fought to get me into a mainstream school. I wasn't just ignorant to other disabilities, I was quite phobic because I didn't want to go back there. Do you know what I mean? So I was the person if it was a wheelchair on the same pavement, just me I'd probably crossed the road because I just didn't want to be like a disabled person's day out, you know, to me, and I was like, really quite phobic. So an Atlanta led a very able bodied mainstream life did not to me, that was not right. And that was not correct. So when I saw that Linda power, Atlanta power Olympics, and I was not doing dressage, at the time, I just had riding global horses. I just rode for fun. Dad used to choke me on I use my first pony I used to book me off within about five minutes. And then I had a horse as I got in my late teens and used to chop me on I used to gather around the field jumping logs and everything go down the road on my own go out for hours on my own on like X ray source was my first first horse or any riders out there. We know that an x ray source is probably not the most sensible horse to have for your first one. No one trained, you know, not them, not self taught. But then yeah. And I got in touch with the powers that be about seeing the Atlanta Paralympics had dressage. And I rang RDA at the time. And I told them what my disability was. And obviously the receptionist had no idea what that was. Nobody came out to assess me for a few weeks I rang them again and I said, Please, I want to like aim for Sydney. So we'll get somebody out and anyway this man come out who I know very well on that and he got out of the car and he went he Ali says you are disabled. I said, Well, I did say that on the telephone. He said yeah, but we had no idea what that meant. We thought it might just stop like a wonky finger or something for you are really quite wonky on your mic. Yeah, definitely quite wonky. And he said well, we will best see right so jumped on the X rays or Scarlett ran the field jumping logs and he was like we've never seen a disabled rider. I like the bag like that because it's obviously very therapy based and very safe. And you do have those two older women each idle Your Honour just in case you fall off.

Unknown: 7:46

So you're on cartoons and you see like pound signs in like a cartoon character's eyes when they found the gold pot of money. Well, then this man was like seeing gold medals in his eyes, but I knew nothing about dressage. I thought dressage was probably about the second most boring sport ever, no, probably fourth or fifth laughter, cricket and football and any ball sports. But now I've been a foster dad, I now a slightly appreciate ball sports because I have been that football Dad. Do you know what it means? I had to kind of get my head around not slagging football off, so much overpaid, kind of middle aged men tried to kick a plastic ball with air in it a rectangle obviously shrinks, obviously shrink.

Lee Pearson: 8:31

Now I'm there. So it's all the people all the people that weren't lovers of football, I'm kind of there now. I appreciate it a bit more. Sydney was abode horse competition. So basically, that stemmed from RDA Riding with the disabled, wouldn't have a pool of horses and riders then didn't really have access to their own horses. There wasn't many disabled riders with their own horses. So kind of went to World Championships in 1999, and then went to Sydney. So it's kind of 1998 where I did the inquiry after seeing Atlanta, and then went to the wheels in 98 in Denmark, and then flew out to Sydney with my saddle and pulled a number out of a hat. And that was matched to a pure Arab, which is not really kind of dressage bass, but the Sydney hatters find 175 horses for about 120 riders. So you put them around that that horse didn't match, you pull a number, another number out, but that might be from a pool of horses, where people have changed for maybe some safety reason, because they were all very unique horses. And then yeah, the triple gold in Sydney and then Greece couldn't supply that amount of horses and in the riders wanting to be parallel to able bodied riders where we form partnerships with the horses and we build up a relationship and we train our own horses and then we show our training really in the partnership.

Unknown: 9:49

Do get how time how much time do you get with that horse? Well in Sydney for the bollard horse was we had an hour each day and for Paralympics, we had a little bit more we had probably About three to four days, or international, sometimes you pull a number out of a hat, you get a ride a horse once, and then you go and compete for your country. If you said that to an able bodied person, they'd be like, get on a strange horse, and then go and compete for your country. I'm like, yeah. Or not, when you see loads of say riders flying off in all different directions, because the horse is the source might have never done dressage. And I've never had somebody with a limb missing or so well, Poles. No, no, no, we did. Yeah, just push the other ones off on the way. I can't stretch right far enough to push. Yeah. But I think that kind of writing for myself and being a lunatic in fields and falling off. And I think that really helped certainly help with bird horse competitions, because you've got to get on and have no fear. And even able bodied riders, you get on a strange horse and usually five hours down the line after maybe five lessons, you feel a bit more comfortable and you know, the horse. And what I've always said to people with your BIOS is it realistically takes probably a year, you can walk, trot, canter go sideways, do everything, but to know them go in an arena and think, okay, they're gonna speak up pink flowers, okay, they don't like red cars, and to know them takes a year. So it was a remarkable kind of competition structure. It's your first. Yeah. And then I went to Athens. And then I went to Beijing and went to London. Then I went to Rio. Then I went to Tokyo. And I'm probably not aiming for Paris because I'm too old. So take us back to that. So you were in your very first Paralympic Games and you come away three goals. Yeah. to individual entity. Right. And so how many people is there in a team element? Well, there's this structure is a bit when basically Great Britain had been number one in the world team gold medal is that every single European world and Paralympic since Atlanta in no pressure, and we still have won every Paralympic gold on the parliaments that I've just mentioned you but the whole structure has changed and other countries like America and Europe are investing more money than then then then our country is investing into Paralympic equestrian sports and we possibly when when the team gold in Paris, and that will kind of be a big story within a question because we've won every power Olympic team goal. So if you're not there as well, I won't be involved. So there's a team of four, but in those days, we used to take about a team of seven, a squad of seven, four riders will be selected and the top three scores are taken. Because we have a set dressage test to set dressage tests, we have a team test, a championship test, they are set that everybody does the same, and we have a freestyle to music, where we have compulsory movements that we have to do. And we match music up to the horses rhythm, which is a four beat rhythm for the walk. So you have 12341234 Trump's a two beat rhythm chart and allowed to canter in parallel, but I got to the highest level and able bodied, but you're assessed on how severe your disability is not how well you can ride a horse. And then a counter, which is the grades, three, four, and five, there's five levels of disability, they can count, and that's a three beat rhythm. So I have a music man, and I do a floor plan. And then he has to match music up which I recognised because I'm the worst music person ever. I think it's I have an iPod with Tina Turner and Michael Jackson on probably. So he has a very big task to because I go you know, that one that goes like this. And he has no idea what I'm seeing routine No, not for the Freestyle team, just we do championship tests we do and then freestyle to music. We have compulsory movements that everyone in that class has to do, but you can put them in your own order and add a bit of difficulty with that force to create that's my own horse. Right. Yeah. Since Athens, so. So Athens, for Athens onwards was own horse competition. And how many elements in the question are they with? Is it seven of you just in dressage? And then you say other question is the champion? Yeah, not a Paralympic level. So they do have power showjumping, their power reigning, which if you don't know what that is, that's cowboy riding, of which I became a world champion. I was when I got a bit bored one year as well. Yeah, I just, I lost the catalogue, the cowboy outfits really, that was the whole thing. I just wanted to like war do so yeah, literally. Honestly, I've got a great photo. So that's galloping, sliding, stop spinning on a really long reign where they're kind of loafing and everything. They do para carriage driving, so if not every every disabled person that loves horses can ride a horse so

Lee Pearson: 15:00

They do carriage driving. They're trying to get power endurance together. So you do long distance rides. I did a bit of that when I got bored one year as well. That was just so that was an excuse to gallop round feels like a lunatic again. Yeah. So how many medals overall for me? Yeah, well, I thought it was the seventh no fee sex. But then when it was right around the arena last year this commentator said normally you've got 37 medals. So gold medals that know a few silver and a few bronze. They were mock ups they were mock ups they were sacked me straightaway. Obviously you competed at a high level Did you say you compete with other people as well? Yeah, I have competed from day one against able bodied riders. And then my dream. Last year, or the end of the year before came true. I got a home bred horse to Grand Prix. So I've never even ridden any horse to Grand Prix. So to have a baby in the field at home, and then produce them. And then when she got to 1413, I did a Grand Prix, which is an Olympic level, which is all the training on the spark and Tupperware, blind changes in Canada and numbered sequences, all the sideways all your extensions, everything. Yeah, so that means as much to me, because I'm a horseman I'm not a Paralympic horseman. As as my gold medals do that was kind of like, I never after that test, even though it wasn't that high score in the world, but it wasn't the lowest score in the world. I was like, I don't need to write ever again. That was like a dream come true. Getting a gold medal was a dream come true. And nothing that I ever expected. I went to Sydney as a total unknown. And if I got a medal, I would have been like on cloud nine. So I was like, mid early 20s. Probably someone can do it. I was born in 1974 in Sydney was 2000. So 20 Sick. Is that right? Yeah. And like literally a man that worked for the carwash won many hating it and then do offer you a training couple of years. Well, by your training, go to a world and then a power Olympics, when she thought that what you were saying you would have just been happy just with a medal. But once you've got that, what as the years went on, and the Paralympic Games were not was there that thrive of I need to get another I need to get well as I started, the National Lottery started to invest in sport so you could receive it well, it's called a subsistence award, but like a wage to compete for your country, and it wasn't the best wage in the world. But it means you didn't have to work at the clay pigeon shoot do not I mean, or the coop opposite to miserable ladies. So it was

Unknown: 17:38

Yeah, they've added me on Facebook as well. Very weird. So I'd say at the time Yeah, I was probably more competitive and more thrive to win. But also it was it was well I can I can have an income from on top of teaching, teaching others and then like anything that people are generally great, the horses are amazing. But organisers organisations do your head and so probably three quarters right through McCray, I was probably doing it just to pay the mortgage down to mean and because my job was to win metals for the country, so that love that. It was less more kind of I want to be the best in the world and like Let's pay the mortgage this month. So were you competitive as a child?

Lee Pearson: 18:27

I'm going to say yes, but I I'm I love the underdog winning, even though my job has been to one when people are able bodied people have literally taken off his home apparently I've been told this when they've seen my lobby arrive and there's well there's no point if he's competing. Yeah, yeah, we're just not doing it for the right reasons. They're not doing because they love the horse. I want to show the training. But like, I don't need to win do not I mean, I'm learning to ski at the moment when I got there when I got to chill fat to be like the like, oh my god, are you going to the Paralympics? No, I do not want to ski at 200 miles an hour down a hill. I want to go from that pub slowly down the green slow to that pub to that pub to the hotel. So I am competitive. But like, I think not in a ridiculous way do not I mean, getting back into.

Unknown: 19:18

No. I want to be the fastest to the Pope. But no, not really. Because I've done I've only ever. I've only ever competed. Obviously I had that desire when I was younger to him I've ever read because I love horses. And I love showing that my training and I love showing and I still love that sneakily when I go to a show someone well, when I first ever went to male body show was this massive horse called blue circle. Boy, he was golden in colour. It was very unique for a horse. It was an absolute Plunker. So I had him because he was dangerous and I took him to a show. And now my job is in the jacket and there wasn't many disabled riders out there and I'm sure to this day with the Luke and Pat Go to receiving what people kind of think about quite a lot of empathy. I'm sure everybody thought I was there to serve coffee and I thought I might just wear the outfit. Do not I mean, because there's no way that that's severely disabled man is getting on that giant horse. That's been a Plunker in the carpark and killing people, you know, I mean, and I love that kind of like the severity of my disability. If someone walks up my driveway, walking like I do, I've never let them on a horse. You know how mayhem is lag. And I just love that kind of cheeky shock factor. But I just love to show the train. I wasn't sure what I can do. Because we're always told what we can't do. You know, I mean, that was 50. Last week, I only started skiing a month ago, and I still can't stop turning left. No, right. Even though this foot goes off to the left, it puts a curve on the ski, so I'll keep going to the right. And I've just had friends go skiing, and we're like Lee, will you come scheme with us? And I said, If I could only come if every pop is on the right hand side? Because I can't stop turning right. Back to the days of salad. Maybe? No, because she wouldn't turn right. So now you're compensating for maybe got overcompensating? Yeah, I suppose it's really lucky that as a child, you found something that really enjoyed and you're passionate about.

Lee Pearson: 21:12

Because obviously, it's very kind of like physical sport and mental health related. My parents were amazing in one way. So like dad used to chop me on the donkey, but also quads and ATVs weren't really invented. The trike had just been imagined so if dad used to put me on able bodied motocross bikes that he had where I could only touch the pedals and the floor was about another two foot out used to push me off in third gear leave me going around the field and then he'd run out along next to me grab the clutch and catch me before we fell out over then it'd be water scheme but there wasn't like Bodyboards and all that so what my dad did he cut plywood circle a bit smaller than the tables tied a rope to the front with a handle it wasn't Crux then as far as I know so he chopped well he's often put me front feet into and to me it's problematic because all those lot of awards scheme and I want you towards the ski that sounds great. Well, I couldn't stand so I'll just delay but you never put a lip at the front so you stand up going under this see like a penny as much as going up. And then when I tell people this these they say are you sure your parents were supportive or not just trying to kill you? I mean, use your put your motorbike so you couldn't touch the floor. Put you on ponies and donkeys used to book you after the ponies did not the donkey and then yet attempted water scheme. So just never really been given perceived barriers by other people denied to me and my mum was that woman when I was in a wheelchair. And someone said with people going house Lee, my mum would go. He's there. I mean, that's I know, that's a typical scenario for many people. But that literally happened. And obviously there's nothing wrong with no voice. Nothing. Yeah, yeah. So

Unknown: 22:53

at all, you know, my mom was a psychiatric nurse. My mom if you told us she was stood on snow, she'd fall over even if she wasn't stood on snow. And dad was kind of motorsport kind of sporty but never I remember he was a lovely driver. He came back with our small scarves once and for whatever reason we all spoiled arsenal for a few months. I don't even know who they are. Where the base? Oh, that's Liverpool? Is that Liverpool direction? Is it north for me? See, I didn't know. The other blue and white scarf was that arsenal? Was that even the wrong team? Madmen, red and white? No, we were not sporty. We were not sporting.

Lee Pearson: 23:35

At all. No. And now that is under military vehicles. Now he's retired. So he kind of did a bit of motorbike racing and playing with motorbikes and cars and things. But then my brothers did like the normal school swimming and the normal school sports days and things but now we've never been football orientated or cricket or golf or any of you ever spoke to your parents since as to what was their motivation? What was their mindset? Did they want to push you into these things to prove that you could do it? Or they just not at all? No, they just I was treated no differently than material bodybuilders. So if I wanted to do something was either I'd go to get my head around how I was going to do or data come out with the drill and the saw and read make it happen. Yeah. And would you say you've always had quite a happy positive? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I feel very lucky. We live mom dad working class but they bought my nan's house which had about three acre field attached to it. So people think you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth but we weren't because we were fully on working class but I think living in the countryside and slowly it was it was an amazing experience. We had loads of animals and chickens and pheasants and dogs were out at nighttime doing torch was just like yeah, brilliant that one of the best offerings I could have asked for but only because I feel like a great parents. Yeah, it turns out

Unknown: 25:00

I feel great parents but also that habit of be really physically active. Yeah, yeah. I think only when you get older you realise how being physical I only realised because literally if I'd not ride the horses for a few days I'd feel mentally shattered and a bit down and I can't go to the gym other than drink orange juice and try and look good you know, I mean, I can't use any of the machines so I am that pure orange juice drinker if I get dragged to a gym, and there's not the many things I can physically do, I can't pedal a bike. When I was younger, I had an arm pedal handbag thing not one of them lie down ones it was more of a awful looking thing. So I did that that a little bit but the for me horses are a complete gym workout it literally works your whole body and if I get up and ride in the afternoon I don't feel like my body or my brain has woken up because it is the laws is that give me that gym workout and get the blood going around your system. The like physio the like gym this is if you don't this is a good day this is if you don't hit the deck then they're not like physio or gym whatsoever. So for me it is my full body workout but my mental work I was also I can't go I can jump on a mobility scooter home and go go around the village but you freeze to death and it's not very exciting once you're walking your dogs I have not lost it. So it's also freedom with the with the horse riding because you're higher you look around you look in people's gardens you can analyse and go for gallop if you want to or you can go the pub if you want to know I get to bring a drink. Because my best mates over in the pub, so we just knock on the window and leaving Bailey's and milk amaretto and coke or coke. Perfect. Yeah. It was one on the with the horse. I'm going to drink with you. So I mean, obviously you've always kept in good physical shape. Yeah, lessness. Yes.

Lee Pearson: 27:06

But do you? You said it touched on it briefly. Would you always relate? When you are out with the horses? That's when your mental health is positive? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, definitely. I don't know if it's exercise. I'm not obviously I'm not a scientist. And at the same time, I mean, you'd love to, I'd love to so the relationship with horses are so good. You can go out and train and be awful whether it can be a nice day and the horses are just not feeling that you're the challenge what the bit I love is you're working with a live animal. So that can be very mentally frustrating. And if they're physically being plonkers, then that can be quite physically straight and it can be very, it can be very fearful as well. I mean, people don't think that if you ride horses for a living that you're ever scared every day we get on the horses and I respect them every single day respect verging on fear, I'm not allowed to let them know that fear. It's totally like walking into a classroom with a tonne of children and teaching them you've got adrenaline going on.

Unknown: 28:06

But they're quite sensitive animals are very, very, so you've got to be their best friend. You've got to be the leader. You've got to be their confidence. But I think also, I think, I think there's a weird probably statement out there that if you need to have a bit of fear every day, you know, it's mean to make sure you're alive and a bit like, kind of and they give me that as well. So it's not all that Oh, harmoniously gets on a horse and the bird starts tweeting the thing and sometimes they get on they want to ride you today. I'm about to get pee wet through. I do. You always feel good after Yes, yes. When you're walking back home to change your underpants. Yes, you feel wonderful. That was a great session on sometimes we can make that happen okay, well I my real horse is now 20 And he's like a real life unicorn so we can put you on and he's done sidesaddle. So I've been one leg is no excuse because the side side allow both legs on one side. My cousin stables in that bridge so I have been I can relate. Don't show off. Don't show off. I'll give you one of me know what I'm the fastest sport you know really hard. I almost feel that as a trained dancer, especially in sort of battling contemporary I was going to get the whole time right to try and being turned out. I just didn't get on with it at all. I found it really hard to how would it be adapted for someone with one leg be saying, obviously a different set or different wives? We could look into a different saddle, but you'd probably I'd probably just set your mind normal, subtle, but I care more about my horse and I do you so when I said he's done sidesaddle. Okay. No problem. When I say so.

Lee Pearson: 30:00

sidesaddle I mean you wouldn't upset him because he's had on a side salad is generally for ladies on boat men can. You have the left leg, let's say down the normal stereo, but then the right leg comes over and hooks over an attachment. So there's no leg on this side. And then he had a little little crop, a little whip on that side to backup from the leg so you wouldn't upset my horse

Unknown: 30:25

but there's specialised equipment out there but obviously the mainstream sadly world I mean, I've got a great sponsor that makes only slight attachments really adjustments only for myself. So it's fine. There's no company out there that goes oh, we do saddles for disabled people because they're so specific. Like everybody's disability is so specific that they they wouldn't be selling saddles really do not mean there's not enough there's not enough of a market there for them. That leads us on quite nicely to your role with cultural children sports equipment, Ambassador so can you tell us very fast doesn't we haven't even got on to you. So status yet pushing us till the end? Would you know I mean, I knew I was linked to the sports equipment section. But really, it's just a The reason I got in touch with Coldwell Polly about 20 years ago, probably Ben wasn't even born. And it's been a very, very, very long journey, I think around this. So he knows it was 2008. So a long, long time, but it was it was a charity close to my heart, generally, and then close location. So those two factors and then they asked if I would be kind of at the sporting section so it was just a natural natural link really that location wise. Obviously they they were not always based in this amazing building, but they were based in Stoke on Trent. And and I love so contract and the location not particularly always the city itself. But location was not enough pubs now yeah, no, not turning around. But location wise, I shocked about it if you your international friends. They go, Oh, do you live in London? I'm like, No, not everybody in the UK lives in London. If you put a pin in the middle of the country, and I did this once on Google, if you put a pin in the middle of the country, that's my house, and no word of a lie my phone and put a pin online in the middle of the country about two kilometres away from my house, no word of a lie. And then I brag about that. We've got we've got four airports within an hour. Do you know? It's an amazing service that they offer? Yes. Because yes, we always talk about what you can do rather than what you can't do. You need support station. Yeah. And the equipment that you need for that. Yeah. Yeah. And then very expensive. Because when it's when it's bespoke, it's going to be more expensive. I mean, I have an electric wheelchair that I just bought offline, and it goes in the back of the car and it goes in the airport, the wheelchairs the ease, these guys supply all like, they're not like that two and a half grand one night, but you can times up by 10 per wheelchair, really. So it's just very, very expensive. And I didn't know this a national company, but so content isn't that most affluent of cities, either. Do you know what I mean? And why should anybody be restricted because they can't afford or they can't access those things? Via the NHS, for example. Yeah, absolutely sang with all the services they offer. And nobody with a disability is that I have ever met, ever wants anything more than are the able bodied counterpart. You just want the same opportunity. And to be able to physically and mentally be on par, you don't need you're not doing anything to be better. You just don't want to be less than Would you agree with that. And so, taking that through to the Paralympics, how would you feel that compares? We were talking to somebody that week about the Invictus Games and the amount of funding that does go into it. Did you see it improve, as the games went on, obviously still a long way to go. As far as the lottery support from the UK, that I think that certainly assisted the athlete, the British athletes, and certainly the Paralympic British athletes when that first came around, and that funding was available. I would I always had a little dispute. So I either have some horses that livery which is 1000 pounds a month per horse. I have five horses or took a massive mortgage and bought my own property, which was a derelict farm. I did that. But then I have to buy a horse box, which I don't mind telling you. My horse box is 70,000 pounds, but you can get spend up to half a million on a horse box. I then have to employ staff and I can't have one person to seven days a week and we can't we don't got canoes so we can't shove it in a shed for the weekend and go away with the family. Yeah, my horses need care, too. Three times a day and and then some form of exercise exercise can be out in the field or it can be lunging along rope around in the surface. So that don't look far maxvill stables to build an arena so probably spent about 150,000 pounds just on that name any staff seven days a week so I get the same funding as someone goes swimming. I want I was was on the A level there's three levels it's probably more now. So I was on the elite level but i i get to me they need a towel, some goggles, maybe a rubber at and some flip flops and flip flops and tiny little bodies. modulars Yeah, like how can the lottery you guys bought compare our in whenever we say like whenever that discussions ever been had it's kind of like kind of bald shut up and put up you've got you've got that funding and get on with it. So I've always struggled with that, you know, I mean, and but for Paralympic sport to receive that funding British athletes, it was quite amazing. But I do feel, especially for the question structure, we've now got the Americans and a lot of the other European countries, like I said, the only one that are probably going to beat us because the National Lottery, which is through UK Sport through the rich Russian Federation, they will not fund horses either. So they'll fund training programmes and a physio and the farrier then when you look at events and things like that, whereas, let's say the Dutch national federation, they've sought some money, and they the National Federation whereby the athlete their top athletes, horses as well, which range from 10s of 1000s to millions. Yeah. So what I had to do, because I was I've had a bit of a tough year, this year and haven't competed. So the horse I got to grow on pre I sold. Luckily, I mean, she had got grumpy she she was black, beautiful, talented, got to Grand Prix, and then I sold her for a good enough amount to pay my mortgage off. Once again, it's not kind of like I get up every day and I live on a farm and it's beautiful. And the birds are singing the sun's out. It's kind of like it really is, how do I pay the mortgage this month, but I'm not whinging because I've had a great lifestyle. And I've travelled the world, you know what I mean? But it has been literally blood, sweat and tears, nothing nothing's ever given to you. Even if you've got a severe disability, even if you've got all the support and the facilities, you've still got to want it and work very hard for it. So what do you think the future holds for you now? What's the next goal? Oh, I don't know. I don't think I'm aiming for Paris. But that's not a given. But I don't think I am. I want a bit of a break. I think. I think sometimes, I mean, I've been professional for 26 years now. And that's thing with our sport, which we're very grateful again, you're not retired at 23, like a swimmer or a gymnastic is very much reliant on a very fit your body. And I mean, we've had everything from the green riding, and we have toddlers Ryan It's very, very mixed age category. But it's but it's it's been I was preparing for retiring. Anyway. I've always liked motorsport, but I did do a track day last year and I thought I was amazing until this old lady went past me on the track and I thought maybe you're not so amazing on the track. He was like, no right for me. Yeah, and obviously a slight little bit of ski but I'm, I'm thinking snowboarding might be the thing not skiing, but I haven't had the snowboarding lesson ones but I did jump on my brother's snowboard one year and I went very fast in a straight line and I couldn't turn or stop. So that was a bit worrying. So certainly start from the bottom. Although I have travelled the world if I retire I'll probably sell my property and get the equity out of it and downsize and but I my aim is a bungalow surrounded by trees with a massive lawn for because I have six dogs and a McCall and loads of other animals as well so and dogs and things like that. So I think I'm going to kind of cash in a little bit. And then I've not been on like a cruise. I've travelled the world and we've had our days off. And we've done that the major sightseeing, but like I've never done like India and Pakistan and places like that I really, I want to go and travel the world again. But as a tourist as opposed to a sportsman that's got a day off and tries to fit as much in in one day. You know, I mean, I've never done cruises, and then maybe a little bit of advisors. I'm never going to go into an old people so I'm going to put myself into Premiere in for a year because then you get your bed changed every day. You get meals that are really nice and you've got a menu to choose from you get people that you can annoy you in the restaurant. When you get bored at that location. You go to another one. I've got the money still in the bank. I'm going to do that cruise ship thing and live on a cruise ship. And it's cheaper than a care home. Yeah, you're getting a bit of advice for today ladies and gentleman. So what would you say to anybody out there who had any disability that wanted to get into questions? Don't do it is far too expensive. thing with any sport, you've got to love it do not I mean, but if you want to do it competitively, and work through the blood, sweat and tears, but I'm totally okay with somebody who you know, who was unhappy in the field do nothing. I'm totally okay with the horse, owning the horse and hacking around the village. Not I mean, you don't people think because I compete that that's Oh, no, you must compete and you must do dressage? Well, you will love horses and sport for what it is, because there's only going to be one person, that's number one in the world. And then there's gonna be another person number two in the world. And you might be like, 20, down, 100, down, 1000 down, you've got to do it, because you love doing it. And you, especially what you guys promote, you see the physical and the mental benefits of it really. So for us, realistically, unless you've got the mom and dad with a little field next door, you need to probably start with Riding for the Disabled, and that's a normal riding school will take you on. And then it's a very, that's a big expense anyway, because ride riding lessons aren't the cheapest in the world. And then then you can times that by about 20 If you own your own horse or pony and all the associated costs with that. So it is very expensive. But at the same time, like I said, There's no age limit. We're one of I don't think we are the only anymore, we used to be the only sport that men and women can be equally against each other. So that was really good. But I think there was other sports now. And so people say it's not very accessible, it is accessible. But But I suppose I would if it compared you can't just become a Formula One driver without spending a lot of money, you know, to me, yeah, there's lots of sports out there that aren't as expensive but a question isn't the most expensive, but it isn't the cheapest in the world. So my advice would be to go riding because you love it. And if you feel that you've got the talent, then obviously you you might be able to head off into the competition side of things. I know we've got to we can't finish the episode without talking about because I learned a lot today about the ranking the honour system. It was only because you kept calling me CB I nearly got a new nickname Li Li PCBA so the honest system is MBA. I'm sure someone's going to correct me on this member the British Empire OBE officer of the fish Empire. The next one up is CB Commander, the Vichy Empire. The next one up is a knighthood ordain hot. But for the night Lords they're split into two so you kind of go I am a knight I am cast the clusters surly only once after that, it's just Li and then there's another there's another knighthood where you would have the KB after your name. So when you become a knight, if you begin the first like level of the knighthood, you can put you put after your name any previous honours that you've had. So if I were given an MBA and then I'd be certainly peers in MBA but because they made me work for a living and I and I'd love to find out if anyone else has got the whole collection because most people are given one do not I mean and then if you still do a lot of charity work or or whatnot or sport or whatever, you there might be upgraded ones but not many people have gone like ding ding ding ding ding ding When did you get each of them? Oh don't ask me a question sometime after set me and then sometime I think it was after Beijing I don't think it was after Athens and then oh, I don't know 26 years into fall and it was a roundabout yeah mazing Well, thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. On board any anybody silently asleep engrossed by your story? I know we have. Jack, what do you think we've learned from today? I've noticed that I know an alcoholic that I'm a very cheap date. That is going to make that Yeah, I do care about Moore's more than I do the humans. So Ben is your job to make that happen. Brilliant. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you listening. You guys keep all the good good. Wake up. You do make me feel exhausted when I watch you online? Yeah, yeah. No. These days in a nightclub called Valentino's in Stoke on pavement, I shoot my shoot my little to shoot, we're gone. Those days have gone. And on that note, thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks for listening today. 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