011 - The number one country for Search Arbitrage outsourcing

Ok so you have found a winning concept with arb, you know how to launch a campaign without getting banned, you have a good relationship with one of the monetisers, they have promised you that you are on a really good rev share, you have research all the keywords and have a framework to created the most compelling creatives. 

The only problem is that you are a one man show. Completing all of those steps feels like running in molasses. You are so slow in the execution that you can only test 10% of all the ideas and opportunities you see. 

If this sounds somewhat familiar, this episode is for you. It is somewhere in eastern Europe together with my biz partner and friend Matthias. We will tell you in detail where to start building your team, what country has worked the best for us, how to write the job ad so that you will be flooded with applicants, where to post it, how much to offer and then how to find the diamonds in the mountains of applications that you will get.

0:55 Matthias shares about the last time he got arrested

2:50 The first steps moving from a one man shop to building a team

3:50 The one market to look at for outsourcing

5:25 Cultural fit

6:40 What to outsource first

7:25 Put your ad up on this page

7:39 Salary levels

8:00 How to filter applications

10:40 Expectations around test work

12:15 Sell the journey to your hire

15:15 Be very precise about your expectations 

16:55 Timezone considerations

17:55 Next steps after the first months

18:35 Hire three in one go

19:25 Don’t be an a-hole

21:10 Potential tax benefits

24:20 See you in Dubai?

Transcript

0:00

In this episode. I'm going to tell you about the one country that stands out. As in my opinion, the very best confit to begin with. If you've been thinking about outsourcing some of the. Aspects in your search, our operation. It's going to get quite detailed and I'm going to tell you where to begin, what to outsource first. Obviously which country to begin then. What to write in the job ad how to craft it in such a way that you wouldn't get flooded with applications. And then also how to evaluate all those applications quickly and how to build a nice system for the whole thing. And also pointed to the exact websites where you should post. The job ad. Yeah, without further ado, let's get going.

Martin: 0:55

Okay, it's been a while, and maybe we begin with where are we right now. Looks like we're in a police car. Luckily we're not. Luckily I haven't been in a police car in a while. Have you ever? Yeah,

Matthias: 1:10

I've been in a police car. What did you do? Like the most memorable Police car experience was, first time I went to the U. S., I wasn't really aware that you had to be 21 to drink alcohol.

Martin: 1:25

Yeah. And I met these guys and we were drinking, and then

Matthias: 1:30

one dude,

Martin: 1:31

I don't think he had,

Matthias: 1:33

I don't think he was drinking at all, but I didn't know that he wasn't 21. He said, let's drive to some place, and he drove. And we were in the car with him. And we were all drunk. He wasn't, but he was the

Martin: 1:44

driver. Ah yeah. Okay. So then you got the real experience? Yeah. Then we got

Matthias: 1:50

pulled over. Also, I thought he wasn't drunk. But the policeman thought the driver was drunk. For a German, the driver

Martin: 1:56

wasn't drunk. Did you get your rights read out to you and everything? Yeah. And then the policeman

Matthias: 2:02

Like we went to the police station and he put me in his little cell And then from time to time he opened the door and just stuck his head in it and went like You guys are stupid

Martin: 2:14

Yeah, I thought I was going to get

Matthias: 2:16

deported but hey Luckily not Spent a few hours in the back of the police car Very American experience And in some county, whatever, like some police station in a

Martin: 2:28

little cell. Wow. Wow. Okay. Yeah, but today we're not a police car. We're we're on a secret mission in somewhere in the east of Europe. We're on an outsourcing mission, I'd say. Yeah. Yeah. The drive here is going to take about two hours, so I thought, why not make a clip for y'all. And why not make it about outsourcing, huh? Yes. I believe most people that start their journey, they start out alone or maybe with a buddy, and then you do everything on your own, and hopefully you find success, and Then there will come a time when it makes sense to Get more people on board and I believe many people fail with that or they wait too long with that. So there will be Like we're gonna try to shed some light on How to do that if you sit there with a few profitable campaigns, but you feel you could be way faster with some help How do you do it? We've, we have experience from working with a lot of different countries. We've worked with people in India, in Bulgaria Yeah, also, different parts of Europe in addition to the ones I mentioned. And then we worked with the Philippines. And I would say the Philippines has been If there's only one market that you should look at for finding cheap labor. It's the Philippines. Would you agree? I would. Why?

Matthias: 4:06

Yeah, there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of advantages. Level of English spoken is very strong. Then, culturally,

Martin: 4:14

the Philippines, they're just,

Matthias: 4:15

they're located in, in the Far East. Culturally, it's very different from Japan, China, Vietnam, Indonesia, it's totally different. And the ties that the Philippines have with the U. S. are very strong. And, it's, essentially it's like a, it almost feels like a US, like a kind of an Asian outpost of the

Martin: 4:44

US. Yeah. And, it's there. That's a super important part. It's really

Matthias: 4:49

there to be used, and these guys, that they, the people that we've worked with we've only gotten good feedback across the board because we also, yes, we're, we also want a good deal, but we're happy to, we're happy to offer attractive packages to everybody. And those are things that, there are areas that people can work in that they wouldn't normally get locally. as easily as you can do with people like us. So I think it's a good deal all around and it's

Martin: 5:19

really a good package. You mentioned the cultural fit and that's super important. Sometimes when you work with people from the other side of the globe, The thinking and the processes can be so foreign that it's difficult to work together, or maybe that they see the the hierarchies perceived in their head are so big that they, it'll be difficult to have a clear and honest communication with the people you work with. And you with the Philippines, I feel like you're on the same page. It's easy to understand each other. Plus it's also it's cheap and they have a phenomenal attitude. And they really want to make it work. The very pleasant people to work with. And now that we talk about it, we've had Filipinos around us almost all our journey. In different shapes. It's only, like in the last few years that we've accelerated there and yeah, where it has a really, it has a big impact. It's an important part of our company. The people that That work from the Philippines for us, but here, like the aim of this talk would be like, I hope to show you or inspire you how to get going if you perhaps have nobody that you've outsourced to. So I would recommend that you pick one part of. The whole chain. And in the beginning when we tried, when I tried to hire, I imagined that I need someone that knows everything. And then it becomes such a big hurdle to hire someone. Just pick one part of the chain. And that could be that could be, for instance, putting creatives together. That's a really easy start, cause then you can, you gotta think about what does it have to say in the job ad. Cause if you put in search ARP expert, you would probably not get that many applications. But if you name it something like graphic designer, there's a much, much broader selection of people that are gonna apply. And one page that I used in the beginning, it's called onlinejobs. ph I will display the URL in the screen as well. And then we just yeah, just put in an app for a graphic designer and make sure that you check. What's a good salary? Of course, in the ad, what's an expected salary? In the local currency. And yeah then just describe it as a, describe what you want done. And you will probably, if you write the ad correctly, you will get flooded with applications. So your task also when you write the ad is to prepare for that and to make it easy for you to filter out people. So one thing I added in the bottom of the ad was to ask them to type a specific subject line in their application. And and then I added some more. Some more tests, like to make sure that they've even read the whole ad properly and that they follow the instructions. I asked them also to provide examples of their favorite ads to see what yeah, what kind of feeling they have for advertising in general. Not that it matters that much more, it matters that they actually read the instruction properly and do what you ask them to. That makes it very easy to filter out, yeah, often you can filter out half or more of the people by adding a few tasks of that sort in the ad. Is there anything else that comes to mind in this kind of process?

Matthias: 9:05

Yeah, and then afterwards make sure you have a proper vetting where, you get your, on your short list of candidates. And you give them a test that they have to do and make it meaningful for yourself. And make the test about something that you really need every day. And then you'll see who responds. And that's why it's always worked for us. And the fact that there's so many people who are looking for that kind of work and who bring a communication standard that it's really wonderful. Because that for me is there's a country like the Philippines where you can speak normal English with people and they will, you will understand every word they say also. It's. It's. It's very accelerating because you don't have to ask back and especially imagine when you're training the guys then. There's a lot of talking. There's a lot. There's going to be a lot of video conferencing. And if you lose time a lot just by talking about language or by having to restart or rephrase, it's going to kill the that's a, like a structural advantage that's there. And that's why afterwards, just vet the subject matter output properly and get going don't be afraid to just hire someone. And look, you're not hiring, you're not hiring them in on a, like a, on a, a contract with no end or anything, you can also test people, it's flexible, just test it out.

Martin: 10:35

It's also, I've been told that it's somewhat of a standard practice that people test work for an employer without even getting paid a salary for, I believe it's the first month. This is not something that we want to do, but what I did instead is, yeah, I made sure, okay. First, only the ones that pass the first hurdles, that actually follow the instructions in the ad. Then, I think it's important to have a few times back and forward with the candidates, just to see how fast do they respond. How does the communication go. And then, With my shortlist after that I would hop on, on a quick call with them just to test, basically just can we have a good conversation? Do we understand each other? And also is the internet okay? connection. I think that's more of a thing of the past, but it was recommended to me when I began that you make sure to check if their internet connection is good, if there's often interruptions or something else that, that you need to take into account. And then I took my favorite three or four and I said, okay, I'm going to hire you for a week and we're going to see how it works out. Just pay them the yeah the offered monthly salary but broken down into a week. What it would have been in a week. And there you also get I think you, you can tell a lot in a week. How enjoyable it is to work with the person and how fast they are Yeah, and For me, it was also important to tell them About their future potential than later. There's not you're not gonna be stuck just editing images or finding images online. If you're good, there's room to grow and you're going to get to learn a lot about online marketing. It's important to remember now that you are an employer, that you actually, you have something to offer to the right candidates, right? You should be open to let them grow. Tell them about that. It's good for morale. And I believe. You're probably going to differentiate from many other people that look for outsourcing jobs that just want some repetitive task done over and over again. In the optimal case you find someone that will grow with you, right? And that will get more tasks and then also get a higher compensation as they can contribute more to the company It's

Matthias: 13:12

definitely more our style Is to grow the people and to avoid having like a repetitive like factory, right? So that's But that's our, how we do things. But it did really pay off for us. Because it also it turns out that in terms of internet consumption or what people are excited about what are young people excited about Instagram is, still is a big deal in the Philippines. If you can show your potential hires that they can learn a lot, and a lot, about this whole concept, how does it work, how does it work, what are the levers that are being pulled in the background I think that there's a, that's what we're getting to, right? There's a the structural piece is good in terms of like language, in terms of mindset. Then there's a, a cost benefit of course, because yes, for sure it's cheaper to do it there than in other places. But there's also a vibe about it that hey, you

Martin: 14:18

can get people who are excited

Matthias: 14:21

about what they're gonna do. And that's, I think it's also not. To be underestimated. You can have a wonderful combination of someone. You can have a very regular, conversation within English. The price tag is right and people are excited. That, that fires back to me that I get more

Martin: 14:43

excited too. Yeah. And in terms of just to give an estimate of the costs that you can expect. It's. Between I would say around 400 a little bit less a little bit more dependent on what you're going for You can also experiment of course by putting various compensations in the ad. I Would recommend testing a bunch because it's so easy and hands off And when you find the right one, it's so insanely valuable. That's the thing I would definitely recommend. And I would also try to be as, as clear as possible with your expectations. If you now go for a graphic designer, what do you think? How many ads exactly should they produce per day? What's the target? I think the more precise it is, the better. Because I have a feeling many of the people that you find on these outsourcing pages, they're, of course they're taking several geeks at once. Also communicate what your expectation is. Is this half time? Is this full time? Yeah, and then make sure to To measure the output and to give feedback to the people. And after a while you will find, once they've understood the way you want things, then you can automate it much more. I would I would order an ad refresh and I would have them every second week. I would have them look at the best performing ads internally and create new versions of that. And then every other time look externally, look in the in the spy tools and give the criteria that you use to identify a good ad so that you get both inside and outside knowledge taking turns and and specified. such a way that they can act without necessarily asking you because then you'll get the real benefit of having someone help you that you don't have to monitor it all the time.

Matthias: 16:46

There's a necessity to that as well. Is that, you're most likely not going to be in the same time zone. So make sure that the, that, what can be done while

Martin: 16:57

You are not there. But that's good that you bring up the time zone. Because you can ask for a lot from them. You can, that is also good to specify. What do you expect? When should they be awake? What's the office hours? Because yeah. But, most people,

Matthias: 17:13

Don't think about that. As strangely enough, there's a good overlap between Philippines and West Coast USA. California and the Philippines have some overlaps, like that, the Philippines was like 15 or 16 hours ahead, so at the end of an office day in in California, then, the Philippines are already on the next day in the morning that's a handy overlap, where at the end, if you're located at the west coast, at the end of your day, you can basically do a beginning of the day meeting with, your Filipino coworker. And that's just a natural, that's a natural overlap,

Martin: 17:47

right? Yeah, and then once, once they've gotten the hang of it the initial task, then try to give them more. Try to follow through on the promise that they can grow, and that they can learn more and paint a picture for what it is, right? If someone is working, you've obviously had success in what you're doing. And if somebody is turning out to be a good partner for you you're probably going to be ready to show them more of your business and to teach them some tasks in a field that's very lucrative. So for the right person, it would be quite interesting to follow along on that journey. And that's what I was looking for. Who of the people? that I hired. I should also say, I tried to hire maybe three in one go. Because you have to expect that not everybody will work out. And when you go through the work to brief someone on everything, maybe you can brief several people. And then and then see how things work out. And hopefully you find that. Unicorn kind of worker that's very interested, diligent, motivated. But that will take time for yourself. It's not going to be 100 percent hit rate. Even if you get 30 percent hit rate, that's very good. Yeah,

Matthias: 19:06

Of course it takes time. Yeah. But you will already differentiate yourself from a lot of other people who go to the Philippines. I'm looking for people. You are going to differentiate yourself by just by simply having a good way of dealing with the people. Just do what you say and say what you do, be upfront with them. And if you promise something and we talked about the, career development or further insights, if they're good, just do it. Yeah. They will, it will get instant recognition that you're actually following through. on what you said. Yeah. And it will set

Martin: 19:45

you apart. That's a good one. You must invest in the people. You can't expect anything if you don't invest in them. In terms of attention and in terms of being fair and straight with them. And that will also mean that your productivity initially probably will go down, especially if it's your first the first time that you're doing it, you're going to be a little bit slower. You're going to make mistakes but it's worth it to go through that initial period of maybe a bit more friction because it's really, it. It's absolutely necessary if you want to, if you want to grow your business. You can't be doing everything yourself. You need to find those trusted hands that, that are going to take care of the tasks that, that you don't want to do every single day. And there's a lot when it's search arm, I feel. When you have an idea for a campaign, there's so many things that need to be done in terms of research, or campaign setup, or creatives need to be taken care of. If you do all of that by yourself, you're just going to be too slow. You need to be agile. And yeah. This is the way to take it to the next level. What else? The Philippines

Matthias: 21:13

have Yet another advantage and that is once you're have a setup there And you know you want to grow the setup. I don't because you're probably going to start with that with a handful of people But it can grow very fast, and it's scalable so you can end up with a larger organization there quicker than you think. And the added advantage that the Philippines have, for example, is they have a tax treaty with the United States. You can also, be very upfront about everything that's going on there, and say, Hey, look, we form a business, this will get recognized by the United States, and the Philippines have, they have a tax treaty with many countries around the globe. You don't have to be scared of Oh, wait, if I grow this now will this all fall apart in, or can it just fall apart in an unexpected fashion? It's pretty unlikely if you grow it properly. And, that's a bigger topic than to formalize your relationship with your with your workers there. But it's possible that you can do it and it's not like crazy red tape or anything, it's pretty standard and there's a tax treaty with the U. S. You can do it, right? And if it's profitable for you, it makes sense in efficiency terms for your organization. And you can do that, and you can grow it, and you can grow it big, and you can formalize it. Because we've seen in the past that sometimes it's hard to formalize. When it gets, at the edge of something big. But then you have an issue in giving it proper form. And also that is, is straightforward. And the, again the cultural differences are relatively small, I feel, but the business proximity, especially between the Philippines and the US is very strong. Yeah, that's a good point. Absolutely.

Martin: 23:12

Yeah. From a tax perspective, it's quite interesting. If you could. So that's of course really far ahead if you once you have a lot of employees there, but it's good to know that you can grow. You can grow with it. Absolutely. So yeah, I would to repeat, I would say, give it a shot, launch an ad for a specific subset of your organization and and see how it feels. I think, yeah, it's or my personal experience is it's been very enjoyable and very helpful for our organizations. Yeah. Total

Matthias: 23:53

efficiency booster.

Martin: 23:54

Yeah. Absolutely. Don't wait. Do it now. And if you have questions, don't be shy. Send them in the comments. Let us know. What else do you want to know? We're going to have another car ride like this soon, and who knows, maybe we'll go into depth of your specific question there. Additionally, I'll be in Dubai next week. I hope I can publish this before. But if you see me, don't be shy to say hello, or to send me a message. It'd be lovely to meet you. is that it? Do we have some more? I think that's it. That's it? Okay, over and out.