The Fine Line Between Medicine and Poison: Competitive Wrestling, Plant Medicine & Finding Our Place - Breanne Graham

In this episode of the Healed Now What podcast, host Lisa Dawn engages in a profound conversation with guest Bre Graham, exploring Bre's dynamic and unconventional path towards healing and self-discovery. Brie's journey unfolds through her experiences as a competitive wrestler, her transformative encounters with ayahuasca in the Amazon, and her engagement with Joe Dispenza's meditation retreats. 

The discussion delves deep into Bre's battles with anxiety, depression, and self-worth, highlighting her efforts to balance past identities with the liberation of letting go. Bre shares insights into her work as a medicine woman, the conscious uncoupling of her marriage, and her pursuit of purpose and passion, revealing the challenges of facing inner demons, embracing the unknown, and taking micro-steps towards healing. 

Integral to Bre's narrative is the impactful role of plant medicine, authentic relationships, wrestling, and meditation in her journey of rediscovery. The episode paints a picture of Bre's life as a mother, student of life, and medicine woman devoted to Amazonian plant medicine and the teachings of Dr. Joe Dispenza. 

The conversation is imbued with vulnerability, growth, and the transformative power of pursuing one's authentic self through healing.

Follow Bre on Insta

Bre's email: breanneg2@gmail.com 

Follow Lisa on Insta


Lisa's Reclaiming Resilience course. Enter code "FeelGood" at checkout for $100 off 

00:00 The Fine Line Between Medicine and Poison

00:36 Welcome to Healed Now What: A Deep Dive with Bree Graham

01:17 Bree's Journey: From Wrestling to Healing

06:04 The Transformational Power of Wrestling and Facing Inner Demons

18:18 Postpartum Depression and the Quest for Healing

22:29 Rediscovering Joy Through Wrestling and Facing Life's Challenges

27:55 Embracing Change: The Journey Through Ayahuasca and Personal Growth

35:52 Navigating Marriage, Identity, and Authenticity

43:53 Exploring the Depths of Healing with Ayahuasca

45:52 Integrating Lessons from Ceremonies into Life

48:25 Journey into Guided Meditations and Joe Dispenza's Work

49:36 Experiencing Transformation at Joe Dispenza's Retreats

51:15 The Power of Healing Meditations and Personal Growth

57:25 Finding Authenticity and Embracing the Journey

01:08:32 The Role of Wrestling in Embracing Challenges and Change

01:16:06 Concluding Thoughts and How to Connect

Transcript

Bre: 0:00

When does your medicine turn to poison? And at what point is it good? And what point is it bad? And the teacher that I work with in the Amazon, he talks about folding things. And he's like, you hold them gently. He's like, you never want to squeeze the shit out of them. And so kind of looking back on when did I hold things gently and when did I squeeze the shit out of them?

Lisa: 0:36

Well, hello, friends, and welcome back to another week of the Healed Now What podcast with your host, me, Lisa Dawn. Today I am chatting with Bree Graham. I love this conversation. I mean, I love all of the conversations, the depths, the insights, the vulnerability we shared was just, it was really beautiful. I had the pleasure of meeting Bri through mutual friends and was able to, or rather had the pleasure to witness her ability to hold a grounded and compassionate space for people to discover themselves more deeply. Like what a gift that is. So on the show today, Brie shares her unconventional journey towards healing and self discovery ranging from her time as a competitive wrestler to her transformative experiences with ayahuasca and working with Joe Dispenza's meditation retreats. We get into shares about Brie's struggles with anxiety, depression, self worth. and striking a balance between holding onto past identities and letting them go. She speaks of her experiences in healing others as a medicine woman and the discovery of her own authentic self through those journeys. We talk postpartum depression, the conscious uncoupling of her marriage, and finding purpose and passion in her life. We go into facing our inner demons, embracing the unknown and taking micro steps in the healing process. We also dive into the profound impact of plant medicine, authentic relationships, wrestling and meditation in Brie's life and journey of healing. So Brie is a mother, an eternal student of life and a medicine woman. She has been fascinated with the divine and mystical experience since she was little. She is currently apprenticing with a maestro from the Mahal lineage, focusing on Amazonian plant medicine and is a dedicated student to the work of Dr. Joe Dispenza. Love me some dispensa. And when she is not exploring the inner world, Brie enjoys baking, beekeeping, and coaching wrestling. So without further ado, please welcome the magical Brie to the show. Hi, Bree. Hi,

Bre: 3:17

Lisa.

Lisa: 3:18

It's such an honor to be sitting here with you having this conversation. So thank you for joining me

Bre: 3:25

today. Oh, thank you. And thank you so much for asking me, uh, to be on your podcast. I appreciate, uh, the chance to share maybe some of my stories and some of my experiences and if it can help people or if they're interesting. Yeah, this will be fun.

Lisa: 3:40

Awesome. Well, I know that you just arrived back from a Joe Dispenza retreat, and of course, I want to know about that, but first I'd love to know how you landed in this moment working with Joe and your journey to becoming a medicine woman and, maybe there was a moment in time, kind of a defining moment for your, perhaps there was several. So you, you can, you can determine which one that will be.

Bre: 4:14

Yeah. Yeah. And well, it's interesting. Because yeah, you emailed me some questions beforehand and it's like, what does your healing journey look like? And it's like, Oh sweet Jesus. Like it's wild. And then it's sometimes even the realization, I didn't even realize I was on a healing journey. And then all of a sudden. Arriving at a point where it's like, oh, there's been a lot going on. And so I've, I've had, I've been blessed with a very interesting life. And you know, it's, it's funny how I guess it sort of started, you know, uh, growing up being like the weird kid and, and not really fitting in. And, and just, I always had this, this sort of underlying anxiety and and, and. It was the 80s, you know, there was a lot of bullying in schools going on adults were allowed to openly comment about your weight you know, well meaning relatives would, would say things and, and so just realizing that maybe I, I, I've only started to realize in turn, I probably, I internalized a lot of that stuff and never quite felt right. with who I was and I even remember kind of re reinventing, uh, identity for myself when I was around 10. And I put myself on a diet. When I was 10 and an exercise program and I made myself into like this tough tomboy where like no one could, you know, the rough exterior and at the time it, it of course helped me in some ways but you know, there's a lot of that vulnerability and, and, and walls to put up, but so I, I kind of experimented with that for a bit, but then when I was, uh, in junior high, I. joined the wrestling team at my school. And that was huge for me. It was actually the first year that they allowed girls on the wrestling team at the school. And so that was a new experience for the coaches, for the boys on the team, for everyone. And, but for me, I really fell in love with wrestling and I it felt like home. It really did. And it gave me skills to set goals, to work hard. And I just really enjoyed the feeling of being on the mat. And I really was able to find a place for myself in that with friends and an identity, which was both good and bad. And it's been interesting because I've been toying with the idea or thinking a lot about the idea lately of like, When does your medicine turn to poison? And at what point is it good? And what point is it bad? And the teacher that I work with in the Amazon, he talks about folding things. And he's like, you hold them gently. He's like, you never want to squeeze the shit out of them. And so kind of looking back on when did I hold things gently and when did I squeeze the shit out of them? And I can be a very intense person. And so Knowing where that line was, but I definitely like wrestling kind of gave me a great intro to spirituality, which is kind of a, maybe a funny thing, but not I had a junior high wrestling coach who was quite good. He had competed at the university level. And he would talk to us every day about the power of the mind like after every practice and talk about you know, we weren't allowed to say I can't or I'm tired of practice and he, you know, talked about visualization and all these things were were new to me. And I really like wholeheartedly implemented them. And I could. See my life changing both like inside me and outside of me because of that. Another cool thing that I, uh, started experiencing when I was wrestling, and maybe a lot of athletes can speak to this. I know wrestlers can speak to it, but not a lot of people talk about it, is kind of entering that flow state where you know, you're in a wrestling match and you're fighting someone and all your focus has to be in the moment. And hitting that spot where every action you do is the right action, every, like, time, there's a weird time dilation that goes on, you're not really thinking, your body's thinking, and it's this beautiful thing, and I started Once I started, I, when I started training at the university with their junior team and started wrestling more seriously I started experiencing these flow states more often and I was like, oh, what, what are these? Like, I want, I want more of these. This is, this is great. And so I, like, wrestling was my obsession, my refuge it was an interesting time to be a woman, a female wrestler because it was kind of new and so there, there were things you know, a lot of the time I would, I would very much deny my feminine nature because it's like, well, I wanted to train with the boys. And I wanted to be, like, one of, like, to be accepted and to fit in, so, uh, once more, okay, no makeup, no dress, dresses, like, nothing, like, really. Really fit in kind of thing. But, uh, you know, there were a lot of great rewards that went along with it. I made my first national team, junior national team when I was 17 and I got to go to compete at the world championships, junior world championships in, uh, Norway, which was amazing. And then the next year I made, uh, the junior and the senior team. So I got to go to Romania. I got to go to, where was the senior? Oh, the senior world's that year was in Sweden. So, I slowly started to get to, you know, travel the world and have all these great experiences. And so that went well for a while, but, you know, and, and like I kind of touched on earlier at what point in medicine become your poison. And There was a fine line between feeling good and feeling accomplished and celebrating myself as an athlete, but then needing that external validation. And the two kind of came along one in the same, really. And And I think a lot of athletes will, uh, kind of attest to that where it's, it's tough to separate the two. And then, especially when you get to a high enough level and your funding relies on your success and your own feelings of yourself kind of depend on whether you're successful or not, which, and that's tough because it's, it's like, how do you experience a failure Motivate yourself to improve, but still love yourself. And I think that's where, where maybe a lot of athletes have that disconnect, where it's like, can I experience failure and still love myself and still find the motivation. And like the thing about wrestling it's a, it's a brutal sport and it's, it's grueling. And like there's sometimes I look back at the training I did. And I'm like, what were you running from inside yourself that you had to put yourself through this, like, what were you, were you, because, you know, with wrestling, I gained all these amazing skills, but at the same time, you know, looking back on it, there was also probably things inside me that I didn't want to face. So keeping myself so intensely focused on wrestling. Helped me avoid the stuff that I wasn't comfortable looking at inside myself.

Lisa: 12:20

And so many of us do that. I mean, I can relate as I'm sure many of the people listening as well. Whether it be work, sports, addictions, whatever we throw ourselves into. Like you said before, what point does it become? The poison at what point and only you can know that for yourself.

Bre: 12:41

Yeah, there's no, there's, there's no hard or fast ruler. It's not like there's a big buzzer that goes off where it's like, okay, you've crossed the point where this isn't healthy anymore, right?

Lisa: 12:51

It's ding, ding, ding, or you get like a smack across the head or something. Stop that.

Bre: 12:56

Yeah. Yeah. So, and it was interesting too, because I grew up, uh, like going to church Like, fairly religious, and, you know, I loved, I loved it, but I also wasn't comfortable with it, too. There were some very beautiful things about it, but there were things that didn't quite sit right. In the logical mind of, okay, a loving God but you know, those things. And so, you know, by the time I hit university, I was, I was struggling with it, but, you know, really trying to push it down and not to think too hard about it. And I always say my, my, uh. My gateway drug kind of into spirituality was Joseph Campbell and anyone, anyone who is friends with me or is good friends, you've probably, I've given me a book or something, a Joseph Campbell book, but, uh, I, I remember being in university. class one day, and they played a clip of his interview with Bill Moyers. And I remember being like, Oh, and, and it, it, that was a huge paradigm shift for me where listening to him talk and talk about, you can keep the symbol, you can keep the myth and it's still important, but. There's also like this freeing aspect to it of knowing that, okay, but there's more and, and So, it was kind of like the intersection of that where, where that was sort of my first real paradigm shift That I, that I, and I remember the day that I, that I saw the clip and I kind of went AWOL for the rest of the day because I went to bookstores and I'm like, I have to find out. more about this. So it was like that, that deeper calling of hey, like you can keep your symbols, but just know that the symbols aren't it. There's something more beyond this and, and so that was really quite helpful for me.

Lisa: 14:55

That pursuit of hearing something, finding a key, whether that be through a voice or a person or reading a book, and then just finding yourself obsessed, I got to know more, I got to do research, I have to listen to everything that this person has to say. And that. That right there, that, that searching and that seeking and having our minds and our worlds kind of blown wide open by new teachings is by far one of my favorite things. You know, this, this element of, wow, cause there's something I think for me anyway, there's something that gets unlocked. Each time that that happens and something that wants to be shown that maybe, you know, I hadn't, I hadn't had the time for, right. Or didn't make the time for, but it was already present within me somewhere searching, wasn't ready

Bre: 15:56

until that moment. And then it just comes in and it's like, ah, aha, this, this is it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I, like, I continued wrestling throughout university and I. And at that point in time, I think my need for sort of external validation and for proving my worth you know, it, it all kind of culminated into The Poison. And there was, it was the summer of 2006, and I had made the world team, and I was finishing up a master's, and I was getting married, so there were all these, Things and you know, I was preparing for the world championship, it's in Guangzhou, China. And I remember my coach being like, okay, you like, this might be your podium performance at a world championships. And I was like, okay, and I go and I came dead last at the world championships that year. And then I was supposed to finish up my master's that summer and start a PhD in the fall. Didn't finish up my masters and ended up getting married and, but like by the time all the, the house of cards crumbled, I was like, well, screw this. I'm done. I'm burnt out. And I managed to pull myself together for the Olympic trials in 2007, but my, my heart wasn't in it. And I retired from wrestling and decided not to do a PhD and went and worked downtown, uh, oil and gas Calgary. And that didn't feel right either, at all. But at that point in time, I'm like, alright, well I, you know, I don't know what to do. And so I ended up I had my two kids and, uh, was a stay at home mom. And that was, that was an interesting initiation too. And I really think motherhood is, is one of the most intense initiations that can happen. And I really do believe it can be a spiritual awakening. And I think it is for a lot of women. And I, depending on If it's recognized or not, it can be a blessing or it can be a really hard time and it can be both at the same time. And for me, after my second child, I, uh, went into the most crippling depression that I had ever experienced. And. I was afraid to ask for help you know, there's well meaning relatives who they'll, they'll say things about your parenting style maybe and so you're afraid to ask for help because it's like, well, I can't look like a bad mom. That's right. And asking for help also maybe implies that, uh, oh, I don't love my kids. So it's like, okay, I can't ask for help because I adore these kids, but I feel like killing myself every day. And I don't know what to do. And that, that was, I guess by far, like the most loneliest time in, in my life. And I was really struggling. And, and once more, I think coupled that with the retirement from, uh, a sport, you, you retire from something when you're 28 and, and the same thing, all of a sudden that thing that maybe you've been avoiding looking at in yourself, you're, you're looking at it. So there was all those things. And it, it was, it was a time. Yep.

Lisa: 19:41

Yeah. There's so many endings and so many beginnings. And as you were speaking to stepping into that, that role of mother, so often a lot of our unfinished business, once we go through that birth portal comes up

Bre: 20:00

in

Lisa: 20:00

a big way. I'm happy and thankful that we're speaking to this now because it is actually quite normal, especially in our society for folks to go through that, that postpartum depression, I don't have any living children, but after I miscarried, there was the feeling of being empty and not knowing what to do and a deep depression happened after that. So it's just important, I think, to, to speak more to that because yeah, we feel like we have to have our shit all together when you getting back on the saddle, when he is doing things again and you're just

Bre: 20:39

like drowning. Drowning and, and, and fucking drowning and, you know, parenting advice from experts and from books and psychologists, it changes. And then that's right. The parenting advice from say a mother or a grandmother or an aunt, they parent differently and, and so that's right. Deciding on what you need to do. Is great, but then sometimes there's not a lot of support for that and so, you know, sometimes there's the backhanded comment and it's like, oh, well, you're still breastfeeding and it's like, yeah, and I'm just trying not to kill myself right now. So just let's just my kids are loved and safe. So let's just, tell me I'm doing a good job. That's

21:23

right.

Lisa: 21:24

Give me a hug, dammit. Yeah.

Bre: 21:26

Pat on the back. And, and the same thing, like once more, if like at the time I was still, uh, struggling with issues of self worth, self love, and so being unable to give that to myself. Receiving those criticisms, it's like, yeah, you're doing terrible, like, and, and it was, it was it wasn't easy, you know, yeah,

Lisa: 21:48

well, especially during those times we tend to because there's negativity bias. So we tend to get even more so. When we're struggling or when our hormones are raging or when we're going through major transitions and then someone will come in, like you said, well meaning relatives that we love and we know they love us and they'll just say something and it'll be the thing that we hold on to. I suck, you know, I'm not good enough. I'm not being a good mother. And all of these things just start clouding even, you know, making us feel worse than we already do. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How long, how long did that last for, if you don't mind me

Bre: 22:29

asking? I remember because I got to the point cause I am not someone who likes taking medication and I got to the point where I, I was I had to, I can't, it came down to, okay, I have to do something or I have to go see a doctor or something. And, and so I kind of sat and I was like, okay, like in your heart of hearts. If you could pick one thing to do that could make like when was the last time you were really happy and it's like Well when I was on the national team traveling around the world and wrestling with my friends, yeah, and it's like, okay Well, you're 32, and you just had two kids. Like, is, is that feasible? And so it was funny, because I actually went on a, like an internet search, and I remember searching the internet for like, like, the famous world champions in wrestling, and like, How, what age they were when they were retired and, and, you know, at that, and most of them were, were men and I'm looking them up and it's like, okay, he retired at 24. He retired at 26. I'm like, crap. And then I, uh, I looked up, uh, Dave Schultz, who he, he, uh, his career ended at age 36 and he was a multiple time world champ. I'm like, okay. I'm going to do this like Dave Schultz is my power animal. I'm gonna. He's my

Lisa: 23:51

guy.

Bre: 23:52

He's my guy, right? And, and actually the first, so I started training again, which wasn't easy. Yeah. And uh, like for the first six months, I was just, my body, like wrestling is a very core intensive sport. So I was just trying not to like wet my pants when I was training.

Lisa: 24:10

How can I not pee right

Bre: 24:11

now? Basically, that's what it was. And I remember my first Canadian championship back after having kids, like my daughter was still breastfeeding and I ended up, uh, I ended up coming third and I got, I got randomly selected for doping control. And so I step off the mat after my first place match and my boobs are big and leaking because I haven't seen my daughter all day. And like, person with a clipboard comes up to me and they're like, hey, you've been selected for doping. And I'm like, and I remember I like my body was still doughy from being pregnant. And I just said, do I look like I'm on drugs? And And they said, well, either way, you'll have to come with. Okay, that's fine. And actually, and the funny thing was sort of full circle is the first international tournament that I wrestled after having After coming back was the Dave Schultz Memorial Tournament. So that was kind of that full circle moment where it's like, okay, my inspiration for coming back to wrestling at a later age. I wrestled that is true. That was the first one. And so, but once again the same thing, wrestling started off as the medicine and it was, Beautiful. And I had some, I made the national team again eventually. I got to compete at the World Championships in Las Vegas in 2015 in front of my kids, in front of my family. It was, it was great. And The 2016 Olympics, I, uh, came close to making the team, but I didn't, but I was selected as a training partner. And so I got to go down to, uh, Rio, and my friend Erica Wiebe, who I was her training partner She ended up winning the Olympics and so my kids were down there and my husband at the time and so my kids they got to see someone they know win an Olympic gold medal and we would have all these crazy experiences and The interesting thing about being a training partner at the Olympics it's like you're you gotta wear every single hat like if if you're you try you're there to try and make The wrestlers who are competing, the experience feel normal as possible so that they can have their best experience. So, you know, laughing, joking around, being their friend, being their training partner. But then, if they need something, if the coaches need something, Hey, can you go find some coconut milk? That's right. Sure. I'm in Rio de Janeiro. Running around. Yep. We'll go, we'll find it, you know. But it, like, it was a beautiful experience. And afterwards, uh, we had, uh, my husband at the time and I had decided to, uh, travel with the kids around South America. And I had traveled through Peru when I was 21, and I loved the country. It was beautiful. And I said, okay, we gotta take the kids there. And when I was 21, we had heard about my friend and I when we were traveling through the jungle. We'd heard about Ayahuasca and, and I'll, I'll say this disclaimer first. It's like, I don't drink, I've never drank anything. I've never smoked pot, like I'm a very clean living person, but for some reason back then I was like, yeah, like, let's, that sounds great. And my friend at the time, she's like, no, we're not doing that. And so, so I, you know, for some reason it's like, I've never done anything in my life. But let's start off with the most potent psychedelic on the planet. That's right. Let's go. Let's go. And so after, after the Olympics, when we were traveling around, I was like, you know what, if we're going to go to the jungle again, I would like to experience this medicine for sure. And, like, as a disclaimer, like, it's 100 percent a medicine, like, I I don't know anyone who would use it recreationally, because it can be quite a severe teacher, can be a gentle teacher sometimes, but and, and just, at the time I didn't know, so I was like, this place looks great, right, but if anyone is, is thinking of it, I would say do your research. Find someone safe find someone that, you know, other people have sat with, but that being said, so after the Olympics, when we were traveling around I went to the jungle in Peru and I did two ayahuasca ceremonies and they were beautiful and difficult. And I felt like I benefited quite a bit from them.

Lisa: 28:55

For those of you wishing to dive into the world of somatic healing and get a taste of what it's like to discover the wisdom of your body, I'm offering a hundred dollars off my signature course, reclaiming resilience to the listeners of this episode. It is a self paced five week course that teaches you how to be with big emotions and sensations. It expands your capacity for more joy. More love and more pleasure while you also learn how to access your boundaries, intuition, and build safety within your body. Essentially, you'll be learning how to harness the power of your nervous system and welcome in more clarity, authentic communication, and fulfilling relationships. In the program, we are changing the way that we perceive ourselves, our patterns and our limiting beliefs, as well as finding our unique voice. Use the code ALLCAPSFEELGOOD at checkout. And for those of you who are seeking one on one support, I also offer coaching and therapy packages and one on one sessions. I'll pop all of that information in the show notes. And now let's get back to the show. Can I ask you, just to interject, at, during that time, were you still feeling that depression? Or was there still, because you had

Bre: 30:20

mentioned. Well, and it's interesting because there were underlying rumblings of it. Yeah. And when I first started back wrestling, it allowed me to put my focus on wrestling and again, away from that depression. But as my wrestling career drew to an end and I knew it was going to end and I knew, I mean, I was 35 when I was the training partner at the Olympics and I knew that. You know, you only got a few more years left of wrestling because I could already feel my body was falling apart. And so it was starting to bubble up again, and you know, my marriage wasn't, it wasn't awful, but it wasn't working. And then, I'll say this too, I made, I started thinking about what, what do I want to do after I'm done wrestling? Like, I need, I need a smoother landing this time when I retire, because last time just leaving didn't work. And I remember sitting and asking Source, God, the Divine, I just, I said, you know, I'm really grateful for my life. And I've had so many amazing experiences up until this point in time, I would like to spend the rest of my life helping people. And I always, I have this saying, I have this saying, where, uh, I say, wishes come true, not free. Because the universe will give you exactly, it'll give you exactly what you asked for, but it'll rearrange your life really good to make sure that happens. That's right. Yeah. And so, so yeah, when I started wrestling again, It really, it took away the feelings of depression anxiety, things like that, but once more, I think it was because I was, they were always there, and I just wasn't facing them, so once more, I started wrestling, and I was able to move my attention somewhere else but as my career drew to an end, things really started falling apart, and I feel like, Like, the universe will send you, or you send yourself, it's, it's debatable, one and the same, right? Like, when some, when things need to change, or when you really need to look at something, at first you get like a feather, like, hey, hey, something's kind of wrong. And then if you ignore it, you get a brick. And then if you ignore it, like a freight train will come. And it'll be, and you'll have no choice but to change. Yeah. Like is really, yeah,

Lisa: 33:07

yeah. Yeah. It would be nice if we didn't need the freight train but if you laugh, sometimes we do

Bre: 33:15

Yeah. If you learn how to listen, you can. That's right. Usually catch it before the freight train. But sometimes you need a freight train. And so I like around the end of the Olympic, uh, at the end of the Olympics 2016, I would say I was in between brick and freight train and ignoring the brick. So yeah. Well, and I just

Lisa: 33:37

want to say something because it's, I think important to, to just put a marker in this. You said, when you were seeking, you're like, when was the last time I was happy? You know, and you were in this depressed, immobile state, we'll call it, because from a somatic, perspective, that's kind of, that's depression. You're like, you don't want to move. You don't want to do these things. And it's just, it's really hard. The body feels really sluggish. And so it's like, oh, happiness. Yes. I want to move my body. I need to go and be physically active. So it's so beautiful that we get these messages, but doing so without the awareness of the emotion that's still there behind is when we get into, okay, well that helped for the short term. Now, I have to address this other piece, so we always, we already carry such intelligence. We know, moving our physical bodies, what it doesn't have to be wrestling, you know, it could be whatever, whatever we enjoy doing. For me, it's dancing in my kitchen or sometimes it's going in my car and screaming at the top of my lungs or whatever. Whatever that looks like to move this energy that wants to be in motion. Yes. So I just wanted to put that, that marker in there. Cause I just think it's, it's brilliant how we mostly know, but there can be pieces that are still not apparent. Totally.

Bre: 35:06

And, and like, even I like, I credit wrestling, especially for the second time, my second career, for really bringing me back to life because I remember like being in that, a dead space and I wasn't listening to music and I was just going through the motions and I was crying all the time. And you know, I started going to practices and it's like, Oh, okay. And then I started listening to music again. And then I started remembering. Things that I liked and things that I enjoyed and it was that spark of getting it helped me get myself back. Mm hmm.

Lisa: 35:42

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, thank you for all that. You're about to go into the next phase.

Bre: 35:52

Oh, so the next phase was my life completely just crumbling. Okay. And watching it crumble with like horror and at the same time good humor and just being like, okay. Here we go. And really the next phase was, you know, addressing my marriage and I was married to an amazing man, a kind man but it wasn't working and, and same thing, ironically, one of the most lonely times in my life was when I was married. Yeah. And I think some people experience that and it's, it's not expected and then, and then you're there and then the whole Addressing. Well, I mean, if, if I do leave. You know, I'm agreeing to seeing my children half the amount of time that I see them, and financially crippling my family. And you know, a whole bunch of things where, where, uh, you know, it's like, well, I think maybe I can just tough this out. And that only lasts for so long, toughing it out. And at the same time too, I had been sitting in more ayahuasca ceremonies, and I had found the teacher that I work with now. I had sat with a few people, not all of them great. Once more I'm going to reiterate, figure out. Who's good to sit with if you're going to go do this medicine, but you know, I'd go down to Peru and I would work with this my maestro and the, the medicine, you can't hide from it. And you, if you will be shown your authentic self, and if you keep denying that authentic self. It's pretty rough, and sitting in ceremonies are pretty rough, and you know, you can't go from ceremony to ceremony without doing the work in your life. And, you know, I came to realize that I, I need to address my marriage, and this marriage isn't right for me. And I'm not happy in it and and that that was tough because I like to think I'm a person of my word and so Unwrapping that where it's like I said, I would be married to this person for the rest of my life Mm hmm, and now I have to go against that and then also to a good person to a kind person You know, it somehow feels like you'd be more validated if okay, well this person's cheating on me or they're abusive

Lisa: 38:36

Yeah, you almost want there to be something majorly wrong Right,

Bre: 38:40

but there was just there was well and there was but I and I I I remember You know, I I was the one who brought up the subject of divorce And, you know, of course we talked about it lots and we danced around it, and then at one point in time he came to me and he said, I think I might be gay. And I was like, oh. Well, okay, well, you need to figure that out then and and so do go doing all this I this was like in the last part of my wrestling career and I was barely keeping it together. And because I wanted to be supportive of this. person who was my husband at the time, and even though we weren't good married to each other I was the only person at the time who he was talking to about that. And I didn't feel like I could tell anyone about it because that would be a betrayal of his confidence. That's right. But it was difficult and having two kids and trying to keep the kids lives as normal as possible while their mom's off competing around the world, while their dad is figuring out his sexuality, and the marriage is falling apart, and You know, but then for me at that time too, it's like, okay, and then what are you going to do after you're done wrestling because you haven't worked as a geologist. My degrees were in geology for so long that you're not going to be hired as a geologist. So what are you going to do? Yeah. And so it, it, that, it was, there was a lot going on and it felt like a, I was in the middle of a, uh, whirlwind and you know, eventually well, it was interesting too because then also my husband at the time and I, we talked about, well, do we keep the marriage as a structure and then just kind of go and take care of our own needs outside of. The marriage or do we completely dissolve it and you know, that's that was an interesting question to look at too. And I know that there's a lot of, you know, open marriages are becoming a lot more acceptable and you know, there's more than one way to have a marriage. That's right. And so I felt too, well, maybe I can manage this. But once more, the plant medicine was like, what do you want? What do you feel comfortable with? Yeah. And it's like, I, I am a monogamous person. Yeah. When you know, you know. When you know, you know. And it's like, and. And, you know, in the spiritual community, like, there seemed to be a trend for a while there, and maybe there still is, or, oh, open marriages are great, and relationships, and this and that, so, you know, sort of identifying as a spiritual person, I'm like, why can't I go along with this, and it's like, no, you need to be your authentic self with this, and if you, and so I, I, through a lot of introspection, I'm like, no, I would like to be, if I'm in a relationship, I know that I just wanted to be me and one other person. So my husband at the time and I, we then just started, started dissolving our marriage. And you know, eventually he was comfortable enough to tell people about what he was going through. And so that made it easier for me because I could then tell people and get help myself. That's right. Because, like, it was, it was a lot. And, and also, too, making sure that the kids, you know, my, my kids, I, they're amazing individuals. You know, they, they have grown up in a very unconventional household in many ways. And just making sure, okay, are you, do you feel safe? Do you feel loved? Are you cared for? Things are a bit weird. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah.

Lisa: 42:58

Well, and something you said, I mean, many things you said but this one thing. about the medicine and you can't just go from ceremony to ceremony without taking action. Yeah. And I just, I would repeat that 1000 million times to people if I could, because, you know, there is that element of the medicine is a way shore and it's still your responsibility to take the action. That was shown Yeah. To you, whatever is correct for you in that moment. Yes. Whether it be the ending of a marriage or leaving of a job or you know, whatever, whatever that is, sorting that out. And I feel sometimes that integration and that embodiment of the medicine is what gets missed. And it is crucial. It's a crucial,

Bre: 43:52

crucial, crucial. And the interest, the interesting thing about the medicine is. You know, the work is done on so many levels, and I know online people talk about purging, throwing up, vomiting all the time, and that's the stuff, but you know, it's not just physical purging, of course. It's emotional purging. It's spiritual purging. Healing happens on so many levels, and sometimes it's on a very conscious level. So sometimes you're in a ceremony, and your head's in your bucket, And you're puking something out and you know exactly what you're getting rid of and a lot of the times it's a relief you're like, good, I don't, I don't need this in my life anymore. Great. But there there are times and I think sometimes that's why ayahuasca can be seen as very like it is very intense, and I think sometimes work is done on such a subconscious level, people get rid of stuff. They don't know what it was. Yeah. And they don't need to. That's right. But they get rid of stuff. But it happens on such a, a deep level that it's like, oh, like I don't know what that was, that I'm, I'm a bit confused. But if you go back into your life, you will see. You will see it. Yeah. You'll see the areas that, that have changed. And you'll see yourself reacting differently Yeah. And behaving differently in different ways in your life. Yeah.

Lisa: 45:22

It's so individual. I love that you're bringing that into the fold because often people want to know. We have this obsession with knowing we have to get comfortable with the unknown because a lot of it is so unknown. If it were known, we'd change it. We

Bre: 45:37

fix it. Yeah. A lot of the time. It's none of our business either. Like if you were able to get rid of something that you didn't consciously have to deal with it, just let it go. You don't need to micromanage it, you know, that's right.

Lisa: 45:49

Yeah.

Bre: 45:50

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Mm hmm. So it was, it was holding like doing the medicine work and about, about that time, this was sort of during COVID, but you know, I was, I was going down for months at a time to Peru to work with the maestro and holding the medicine in integrity in ceremonies means that you also have to hold your lessons in integrity in your life that you've learned from ceremony. So. You know, you can go down and drink as much as you want and, but if you're going to hold this medicine in integrity, implementing what you've learned is such a crucial aspect of it. So it, and, and really it's just coming back to your authentic self. You're getting rid of your layers. You're getting rid of your shit. That's not you. And so once more that, so they the decision to. And the marriage was, it, it, it, I had to be in my integrity if I were to continue to work as a medicine woman and, and apprentice with my, my astral. Yeah.

Lisa: 46:58

We can continue to do what's easy or what's right. And not saying that staying in a marriage that doesn't have, you know, the love or connection is easy, but there's an element of ease with familiar. That's what I'm speaking to. Yeah.

Bre: 47:15

And so, so, but, uh, but then it was interesting too. Cause at the time, uh, you know, I was going down to Peru for my own healing. And then the more you go down, okay, well here, tidy up the ceremony room here. Why don't you learn? And Icaro and Icaros for those people who aren't familiar when you're in a medicine in an ayahuasca ceremony Icaros are sung during the ceremony and they're, they're medicine songs. And in the tradition that I work with they say that the ayahuasca does 50 percent and the Icaros do the other 50%. So, you know, I'm going down there and it's like, okay, well, learn, learn some Icaro and, and help out a bit more. And the maestro that I was working with said, you know, Brianne, if you're going to get serious about this work, you really need to start meditating. And I was like, Oh, okay, sure. You know, and, and so me being the toolie jock that I am from my background, I was like, just set a 40 minute timer and then sit there. And how did that go? Oh Lord. After like the first couple of times, I'm like, well, this is terrible and not working at all. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so, I, uh, I went online to find, uh, uh, some guided meditations, and I stumbled across some meditations of Joe Dispenza. Yeah. And I, they, they really worked for me, and it's funny, I think still, like, the athlete Part of me really appreciates them because, you know, he's, he's very enthusiastic when he's leading his guided meditations. And I even, you know, such a good way to put it, I send, I send people sometimes I'm like, Oh, you should try this guided meditation and then they message you back and they're like, is he yelling? And I'm like, yeah, it's like, is it? And sometimes he's an acquired taste, his guided meditations, but I started using them. I liked them. And so then I started reading his books and I'm like, Oh, this is, this is really cool. And so, I made the decision. It was. Actually, about three years ago to, I'm, I thought, you know, I'd like to go to one of his events and because I think that would really elevate my meditation practice. And so I, I did and I, you know, I always say to people when they go to an event, I'm like, it's not going to be what you think it is. And that's the best way to describe it. And They're magical, uh, first of all, and he, he basically has this gift of using science to describe mystical experience, to describe healing, and it gives people a permission slip to have mystical experiences and have healing. So, the events are these, like, amazing combinations of, like, well, you sit and listen to science. And then you meditate for two hours and, you know, you can be sitting next to people who are having full on mystical kundalini experiences. People who, by the end of the week, are stepping out of wheelchairs, who haven't walked in years. Like, it's no big deal. No big

Lisa: 50:30

deal. No big deal, right? No

Bre: 50:32

big deal. Yeah, and So my, my first event that I went to and it's cool because my first event that I went to was in Cancun, and I just got back from an event in Cancun, and it was a nice comparison because even then, seeing myself from three years ago and seeing how much I've changed. Yeah. And how less I am jerked around by my own mind. Yeah. And how clearer I am. And I know a lot of it has to do with ayahuasca and a lot of it has to work with, to do with the Joe Dispenza work. And I've been, they've built, they've been building on one another for me and really helping me quite a bit. And so it was kind of like a beautiful full circle moment, but my first retreat halfway through the week, I, uh, He teaches a meditation because, of course, he teaches meditations where people heal themselves. So then the next step is, hey, if I can heal myself, maybe I can heal someone else. And so he teach, he during the week he'll teach a meditation where people who volunteered to be healed or who have a physical ailment, you know, they lay down and, and you, there's eight people around them and sending them. This beautiful healing energy and I was, I wasn't the person in the middle, but during my first event, that was when I had the hugest change. So we're, we're doing this healing meditation for someone and my heart blows open in a way. that I've never experienced in my life. I thought I was gonna die, but from love. Like, there was so much love. And I had tears running down my face. And it was, it was like that thought where it's like, you know what, if I die, I die. I don't care. Like, this is, I had never experienced that much love. In my life and I, I, I, it was just coming from me and I'm, or like from something inside of me and it was like, Oh, wow, I didn't know this was available. And during his retreats, there's always three of those healing meditations and, and for that first retreat I did the second healing, there was even more and the third healing like once more I thought I was gonna die from love, like it was the best experience. Like, I. Have no words. But then at the end of the retreat, I thought, I'm like, how am I going to go back to my life now? How do I keep my heart open? And so from when I went home he, there's some groups that do online healings using his meditation technique. So I, it was, it was funny because it was, it was sort of like a selfish motivation where I joined one of these groups. Just so that I could keep my heart open. Yeah, and so I kind of I made a goal to do one healing a day Just to keep my heart open and it's it's been Beautiful and there's been so many things unfolding From that and I I do I enjoy going to his retreats that he puts on And I've had the fortunate I was, I've been fortunate enough to, I volunteer sometimes and I help out and the stories that come from these retreats I was, uh, at a retreat in Denver and I was helping a lady who I, I'm a mobility assist sometimes, so I get assigned a person at the beginning of the week, and I help them, and she had an incredible transformation, and actually, they got her to do a testimonial, and so if you YouTube, Google, Stories of Transformation Angelea, I, She has this incredible story, and I was there during the week, first hand, witnessing this. And she went from being in a scooter, or a walker, needing an oxygen tank, to like, just being completely fine at the end of the week, not needing any medication. And I remember because I was helping her during a walking meditation, because he We do these blocking meditations. She was moving energy through her spine and she looked, she looked like one of those, like, you know, those arm waving guys in front of tire stores. Those. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She was, she's just standing there in this. Intense energy is moving through her, and I'm standing behind her, holding my hands out in ca to catch her in case she falls over. And I'm like, well, I don't know what's going, what's happening right now, but I think she's getting some kind of upgrade and, and, and so it's been, it's been incredible, uh, watching people's transformation. And I mean, I know that I've. Change to and maybe not so physic, obviously physically but I, I'm at a place, I'm at a place of peace right now in a way that I don't think I've experienced since I was about five years old. And I, I. I know that I've been getting close to arriving there for a while, probably my entire journey, but it really started kicking in in July, and in the last couple months, it's been incredible. So those are such

Lisa: 56:18

powerful shares. I mean, I, I'm a huge fan of Joe Dispenza. I've been listening to his meditations and enthusiastic is a good way to describe them in space, you know, anyone that's done any one of those meditations can attest to that enthusiasm. Yeah. He's a brilliant man and has done some really fantastic things. So I love hearing about your journey. No wonder you keep going back year after year, being in that energy of miracles on both sides, with the ayahuasca and with the meditation, being able to serve and be of service to all of these folks that are ready. For a significant change, something's got to give, something's got to go, something's got to be brought in, like the love that you felt, the unconditional love, I could feel myself in my heart, you know, getting tender, just listening to you share about that. So thank you.

Bre: 57:24

Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because You know, I've been fortunate enough to get like a front row seat to healing, the healing process on so many levels and in so many ways. And you know, there's things that are similar in both I guess modalities if you call them modalities, but the two main ones that and my, my maestro in Peru, he always says like healing is a co creation between the healer and the person to be healed. That's right. And. It's really like someone is on the edge of letting something go, and you're just making a really comfortable environment, and you're making it really attractive for them to let go of whatever they need to let go of, or change whatever they need to change. And you know, the people, myself included, that I see the biggest transformation in, You can tell that they're ready and you can tell that they've done their work and they've gotten to a point where they're, they're they're like, okay, this, this needs to change. Something needs to change.

Lisa: 58:36

Yeah, when you're ready, when you're ready, you're ready. And oftentimes that doesn't look like one single thing. Oftentimes it looks like a series or a sequence of events that there are always breadcrumbs. Being left at different phases and different stages of the journey. And I was thinking about this the other day, because I deal a lot in relationship wounds and trauma and, and kind of all that, that realm of things. And you know, it stands to speak to, if most of our wounds come from relationships, then most of our healing. We'll be in relationship to one another. And so that journey of allowing support, you being the catch person, creating this environment to be able to trust another human being again, we don't do any of this shit alone. We don't do any of it alone.

Bre: 59:35

Nope. That's total. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa: 59:40

So being able to hold that space in multiple different ways.

Bre: 59:44

In multiple different ways. And then even actually, and then it's funny, it's, it's for myself too. And that, that was the big thing that came for me this year was all that external validation. Yeah. Yeah. The things that I've been chasing. It's just because I wasn't giving that love to myself. That's right. That worthiness to myself. Yeah. And you know, I, I said earlier where it's like, I was the weird kid and it's like, you know, I full on ex, I like, Embrace the weird kid energy now because it's I'm really just enjoying being me and I get a kick out of I can sit on the couch for hours and just enjoy being me but like just knowing that Whatever happens externally, like a relationship, a marriage, anything, if it gets taken away, it's okay, because I got my back, my own back, too. And there's been countless people who've helped me on the journey that I'm so grateful for, but it was always just sort of the journey back to myself. Yeah. Right?

Lisa: 1:00:53

Isn't that what it is? You're just like, I reclaimed those parts that I was a total weirdo about and now I'm just wow, I love, I love those pieces of me that I was embarrassed or shameful about at one point in my life, or someone said something to me and I internalized it, you know, you spoke to at the beginning, growing up in the eighties. Me too, 1980 born, just you know, doing all the things, people saying whatever the hell that they wanted yeah, just a, a very interesting time to incarnate on the planet.

Bre: 1:01:26

Totally. Totally. But I mean, like looking back on it. Not wanting to change a single thing and there were, there were parts of my journey that, that, you know, it was like, Are you kidding? Like, this is happening now? And, and it's like, how much more of a dumpster fire can this get? And then, of course, it becomes a bigger dumpster fire. And it's like, Oh, guess I shouldn't. But if all of that never happened, I never would have arrived to the place that I am. Yeah. So, of course, I'm going to be so grateful for everything. Yeah. That happened, because it was just so necessary. Well, yeah,

Lisa: 1:02:03

and I believe that, we truly did come here to experience the spectrum of experience, of our own emotions, of, you know, how ultimately we can reclaim. Ourselves and come back to loving ourselves and, having our own minds blown to the point that, yeah, not even realizing, like you said, Whoa, I'm on a healing journey. Yeah. And we never actually get off of that. I think like the whole of life is a healing journey from programming from coming into a world with its conditions where. We want to make everyone and everything look the same, be the same. So stepping out into that role of who's Brie, who's Lisa, who, you know, how, how am I individual, but yet so wholly connected to everything and everyone

Bre: 1:02:58

else, and that's just it. And it's like, it's like the weird punchline at the end where it's. It's always been you and it's like, well, then why did I have to go through all this to like, figure that out? But it's, there's a difference between knowing Or like knowing something and understanding it and it's, it's interesting you know, going back to books that I read earlier on, or, you know, I go back to that, the Joseph Campbell Bill Moyers interview and I, I enjoy it every once in a while, but I always remember Joseph Campbell at one point in time, he said, Bill Moyers asked him well, what about faith? And he, Joseph Campbell's like, I don't need faith. I have experience. And I never understood that. Like, I thought I understood it. And then, you know, once more, my maestro down in Peru, he talks about direct experience. You'll know through direct experience. And once more, I never understood that until I started experiencing the beauty and the love. of that experience of being connected to Source, of being connected to God, of being connected to that Oneness. And then all of a sudden I understand, now I, I, on one level I understand I don't need faith, I have experience. But that's just me right now. Like, I could have another experience tomorrow, five years from now, fifty years from now, where that'll completely Rearrange that understanding of that experience, but I mean, you know, and then even the thought of, well, the healing journey and once more, it's like, well, what was I healing from? And, and what was it? And it's like separation, illusion, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to enjoy the crap out of it. Two, you know, like this is, this is a wonderful world. I like popcorn. I love my kids, you know, but there's a different appreciation to it. When you do have that connection or that understanding of love of source of the divine, and then having that connection and then just being like, well, you know, oneness, love, but also I'm going to go look at ducks in the park because that's just awesome. Yeah.

Lisa: 1:05:23

Because I'm here and nature is cool.

Bre: 1:05:26

That's just it, you know, and, and I, you know, I'd be interested, it would be interesting to even go back and experience life as an athlete, but understanding of this lens. Yeah. And, and just wondering how that experience would change. Now that I have that understanding. Yeah,

Lisa: 1:05:48

and this, intrinsic validation that you uncovered, right? would it be purely for enjoyment? You know, purely for the, yeah, the joy of just being back in a ring again.

Bre: 1:06:04

Which would almost take me back to like when I started because when I started wrestling, I was terrible at it. Like, I think my first year when I was in grade seven, I won. One match out of my entire season. And I mean, if you've seen junior high kids wrestle, like everything looks like an accident. Like no one's really doing anything And sometimes I, I, I watched junior high matches and I'm like, how did, how did I not win at least one more match my first year?'cause Mm-Hmm, But, but at the, that time it was just so pure for me, like just the enjoyment of it. So, yeah. Totally.

Lisa: 1:06:38

Yeah. And can we take the chance at sucking. Yes. To find that something that we love. Yeah. Because, you know, it's not often that we just step, you know, onto the plate and we're awesome. No. And

Bre: 1:06:52

everything.

Lisa: 1:06:55

I'm sure that happens for certain people sometimes maybe, but practice and, getting out there and doing the thing and being brave enough to keep going even when you get in your ass kicked. Yeah. You know, and you spoke to earlier having the experience of a flow state. Like I've heard cause my partner has been in martial arts since he was eight, right? All different kinds. So jujitsu, karate, all the things. And he's re found his love for jujitsu. We were living on Vancouver Island and he started going to a club and he was like, Holy shit. I just forgot how time does this weird. Thing when you have to be so present into something. Yeah. You're just in it. You have to just be there. If you're gone for a second matches over, you know, and you probably experienced that too.

Bre: 1:07:50

Yeah. And, but, but then like being in that flow state. It's like everything, like there are times where I was in wrestling matches and I hit that state and I was like, I could not have done anything more competently in my life than I did at that moment. Like every action was the correct action. Every movement was, it was, it was very much in the moment. And I, I like, I often wonder. And, you know, there, there are times in medicine ceremonies where I get that for sure to ask.

Lisa: 1:08:27

I'm like, do you experience that too? Yeah.

Bre: 1:08:29

Meditation. Yeah. One hundred, one hundred percent. And actually you know, I do feel like wrestling has prepared me for medicine work. One hundred percent in so many ways. Flow states. One of them. The ability to trust the ability to kind of press the override switch and control of the mind. One of my favorite parts, one of my favorite parts about wrestling was being in a match and hitting that point where your body and your mind's like. You gotta stop because if you don't stop right now, you're going to die. You're so, and, and you hit that in basically almost every wrestling match. If you're wrestling anyone close to your skill level, you'll hit that. And I loved hitting that point and kind of being like, well, let's see, you know, your, your body and your mind are being like, you're going to die. And it's like,

Lisa: 1:09:28

am I,

Bre: 1:09:29

well, let's test this out. We're good. We're going to find out because I'm not giving up right now. And I loved. Testing that and hitting that point because, you know, your mind will tell you to stop, you know, it's like a natural evolutionary thing where it's totally better. It's

Lisa: 1:09:43

protecting you. Yeah, trying to protect.

Bre: 1:09:45

And, and I find like there's times in medicine ceremonies where that you hit that where it's like, you're coming up against yourself, you're coming up against something in yourself. And really, when you're getting rid of things, it's In yourself, that you no longer need, they're like mini deaths. So it's like, I'm getting rid of this emotion, I'm getting rid of this habit, I'm getting rid of this behavior. And there's that part of you where it's like, Ooh, what am I if I don't have this crappy thing that's holding me back? And, I like it. Give it back. I like it. But then being brave enough to be like, well, We'll see. And, and sometimes that's, that's the biggest struggle in the medicine ceremonies is, is being like, well, I'm going to have to see who I am without this person. Right. And sometimes. The desire to hang on to it is very strong and the most of the struggle I see or have experienced has occurred where it's like, but I don't want to let go and, and, and, and finally it being released and the relief that comes after but it's being able to step into that unknown. And so I think wrestling in part helped me once more with a lot of those things, but uh, a lot of it was like. Well, are you brave enough to do this? Can you convince yourself, your mind, your body, everything is telling you that this isn't a good idea, but can you be brave enough to step into this unknown? And the rewards are usually huge when you do.

Lisa: 1:11:24

Yeah, absolutely. Because there is that, that moment when it's. Am I going to discover what potential I have here or am I going to throw in the towel? And sometimes, you throw in the towel and other times you, do that last squat. Yeah.

Bre: 1:11:44

Yeah. 100%. And

Lisa: 1:11:46

it's helpful if you have someone else. You know, encouraging that as well, totally, totally hand on your back when you're, just wanting to throw in that towel. And I think that that also leads to more wisdom over time, especially when we don't necessarily know or maybe haven't honored our own capacity is developing the wisdom to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Yeah. When it's worth it to push a little bit more and when it's like, no, actually this is not, this is not the hill I want to die on today. Yeah.

Bre: 1:12:21

And, and, and that kind of goes back to what's your medicine and what's your poison. That's right. And I've, I've, I've been kind of, like I said, playing a lot with that lately and it's like with, I think it becomes a poison when you start doing it to, I need this to preserve to do this, to preserve. this concept I have of myself or this identity that other people have of me. That's right. So I need to do this to preserve that. Where I think, where I have found it most helpful, like when I'm struggling with that question of do I hang on and keep trying or do I let go, the question I find most valuable to ask myself is what is bringing me closer to my authentic self in this moment? What's the most life supporting thing right now? And, depending on where you are, and what you're doing, the same action can have two different answers, depending on where you are. So it, you know, it's funny, as humans, we want a definite yes or a definite no. And, walking the path of healing, Or intentional healing or intentional coming home. It really is like, uh, an awareness and, and kind of like this questioning constantly of who I am, who am I right now? What am I serving right now? Am I serving a mask right now? Am I serving on an unauthentic self and an authentic self right now? And. That's going to look different moment to moment, day to day,

Lisa: 1:14:18

year to year. And sometimes it requires us to go back to the things that are familiar to us a few times to really discover that they're not, they're not our medicine anymore.

Bre: 1:14:31

Yeah, totally. And, and, and being, and sometimes even, uh, I know when I have struggled with letting something go, I, I, to make it easy on myself, I'm, I say, Oh, for right now, right now, I'm not going to do this for right now. Yeah. And that always gives myself permission to come back to it if I need to. And it makes a transition sometimes seem a lot less severe. And then once the transition's made. It's like, Oh, it's way better over here. Why did I wait so long to like, let go of this thing or whatever, but like just in that process of letting go, sometimes if, if I need that little nudge, it's like, all right now. And it's like, Oh, I can do that for right now. Right. And then it becomes easier. Yeah.

Lisa: 1:15:18

Yeah. Just build the muscle for change. I often find that it's the. The small micro steps that we take each day that ultimately end up creating our, our lives. It's usually not the, like, you know, we all have moments where. It's beautiful to have that thing that kind of blows up your world. Yeah. But the, you know, that's not happening every day. We've all

Bre: 1:15:43

had the desk clearing moments. That's right. Where it's like, I'll start over, but, I mean, like I, like I said, like the, the route that my life has taken, I would not have. I don't know if I would have been able to plan out how to get here in a logic way. It was, it would step by step. Right. Like this. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Lisa: 1:16:06

Well, oh my God, this has been such a wonderful conversation. I'm wondering if you could let folks know how they can find you. Yeah. How they can. Yeah. Just learn more about

Bre: 1:16:20

you. Yeah my, my Instagram is BreanneTheGraham so you can find me on Instagram, uh, you can message me on Instagram through there and you can, uh, my email address is Breanne, B R E A N N E. G number two, like the numeric two at gmail. com so you can, uh, like you can message me through there if, if there's anyone has any questions. And yeah, and thank you Lisa so much for having me and for letting me share some of my story. And I just hope that. Uh, you know, there's people out there who maybe found some wisdom or inspiration or maybe saw a bit of themselves in kind of what I was doing. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Lisa: 1:17:07

Mm. You're so welcome, Bree. I will put all of that contact information in the show notes. And I just also want to thank you for agreeing to come on and share so vulnerably so much of your life. And I know. That this episode is going to be helpful for so many folks. So thank you for your wisdom. Thank you for your commitment to healing. Thank you for your service. And I hope that you just have the most beautiful rest of your day.

Bre: 1:17:37

Thank you. Lisa. Mm. Mm.

Lisa: 1:17:41

Bye for now. Bye. As always, thank you so much for listening. Life is busy, so it means even more to me that you are here. Listen, we've got so many great episodes coming up, so please make sure that you follow along on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you are listening. And if you appreciate these episodes, please do us a favor and leave a review and share the show with anyone you think this episode would benefit. See you again next week. Bye for now.