Ep. 27 Healing Like A Boss: A Business Owners Journey Of Leading While Healing - Holly Singer

Lisa Dawn interviews Holly Singer, the founder and CEO of Milk Jar Candle Company, on navigating the challenges of entrepreneurship while dealing with personal healing and mental health. 

Holly shares her story of overcoming adversity and learning to expand her 'intuitive fence' to embrace possibilities that once seemed impossible, enriching her life immeasurably in the process. They dive into Holly's background, including reconciling her parents' divorce and facing her own mental health challenges, which ultimately led to her cultivating a more present approach to life and business. 

Holly also discusses the importance of understanding, empathy, and open communication in the workplace and how creating a culture of kindness at Milk Jar has impacted both her team and the broader community. The company's mission to create inclusive job opportunities and support spaces for people with disabilities is highlighted, alongside their successful initiative to donate a portion of sales to relevant organizations. 

Holly also hints at future projects for Milk Jar, including participating in the stampede market and developing new products. Overall, the conversation sheds light on the transformative power of facing life's storms with courage and the role of personal growth in achieving professional success.

Milk Jar's website

Milk Jar's Insta

Lisa's website 

00:00 Unlocking Potential: Embracing Challenges and Expanding Boundaries

00:27 Introducing Holly Singer: A Journey of Entrepreneurship and Healing

01:20 Navigating Life's Storms: Holly's Personal and Professional Growth

08:32 The Power of Presence: Holly's Transformation Through Mindfulness

12:27 Embracing Change and Finding Identity: Holly's Ongoing Journey

15:31 The Art of Self-Compassion and Setting Boundaries

19:10 Choosing Happiness: The Continuous Process of Healing and Growth

24:09 Creating a Compassionate Community: The Impact of Personal Growth

25:34 Navigating Relationships and Self-Love in the Face of Change

35:41 Unlearning and Relearning: The Journey to Inclusive Workspaces

36:40 The Impact of Personal Growth on Professional Relationships

37:34 Balancing Business Success and Employee Well-being

38:02 Creating a Culture of Communication and Accommodation

41:01 The Importance of Balance in the Workplace

41:30 Understanding the True Motivations Behind Work

44:55 The Power of Compassion and Understanding in Personal Growth

50:29 Navigating Difficult Conversations and Relationships

55:31 The Role of Self-Reflection and Acceptance in Personal Development

59:15 Embracing the Present Moment for Entrepreneurial Success

01:04:34 Looking Forward: New Projects and Community Engagement

Transcript

holly: 0:00

You start welcoming them a little bit more and then you start learning what you need. You're like, Oh, going through this, need to slow down and need to spend time with myself, need to say no to some things. And you know, it's, it's part of the process and it's part of me being my best self or the people around me for my business, for my partner, for myself. Like it's, it's essential

Lisa: 0:33

hey guys, Lisa Dawn here. Welcome back to this week's episode. Well, if you are an entrepreneur or business owner, then you know how challenging it can be to manage a team of people while navigating your own healing and health challenges. So today on the show, we have Holly Singer of Milk Jar Candle Company. I love this company. I first met Holly at a market many moons ago, and I remember her being this amazing blend of quirky, genuine, and just someone who wanted to create something memorable that had impact. And so now here we are like nine years later, and that vision has come to life. On today's show, we talk about Holly's journey of healing and reconciling the divorce of her parents, navigating her own mental health challenges and learning how to be more present and show up for the spectrum of experiences life was offering her. Holly shares her approach to facing life storms by learning how to cultivate presence and how the healing work has impacted her life, both personally and professionally. We talk about finding strength in adversity, viewing each of each challenge as an opportunity to expand our understanding of ourselves and our business. And Holly also speaks to the transformative power of understanding and empathy, not only in personal relationships, but also in the workplace. By cultivating a culture of kindness and open communication, Milk Jar has become a beacon of positive change, influencing both its employees and the broader community. Holly Singer is the founder and CEO of Milk Jar, an inclusive candle company that creates job opportunities for people with and without disabilities. Milk Jar also supports inclusive spaces by donating one dollar from the sale of every product to organizations that support people with disabilities to learn and grow and initiatives that create inviting spaces. In seven years, Milk Jar has raised over 300, 000. for programs worldwide from Alberta to Ontario to the U. S. and even in the U. K. And these are all areas where Milk Jar purchases from so they can support their customers communities to be more inviting. Holly plans to expand inclusive hiring in Calgary by creating a work experience program at Milk Jar. That leads to seasonal supported employees finding permanent employment and other Calgary businesses after their work experience term. Amazing. So without further ado, please welcome Holly to the show. Why, hello, Holly. Thank you so much for, yeah, coming on here and having a conversation with me. I've been really excited to, to chat with you today.

holly: 3:44

Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here too.

Lisa: 3:47

So as you know, this podcast is about Our individual healing journey, and I'm wondering if, during your lifetime, you've been faced with any kind of physical or mental health challenges. And also within that, what kind of pivotal moments that you've had during those times?

holly: 4:11

Yeah, it's it's nice to be able to talk to you now because I feel like I just went through quite a big transformation personally. It definitely came more to the surface, I think, from being an entrepreneur and owning a business. But I'm kind of now in that place of, just so much gratitude for it. Uh, you know, when you're kind of in it, it's hard to see, uh, the benefit of it. And yeah, I feel like now I'm even so much more prepared for when it's going to happen again. It's funny. I think I, I think there was a time maybe Gosh, it was kind of at the beginning of milk jar, even before I started it, uh, just kind of personally went through some things in my family. My parents split up and it was really hard. It's like they were together for a long time. I didn't know if that was ever going to happen. And it was, it was also fine at the same time. I was very happy. Yeah. Knowing that, you know, they probably weren't the best fit together and I really had to deal with a lot of some things surfaced from, you know, growing up and some patterns that I had learned kind of really came out and I felt then that I really worked through a lot of things. And then I thought my healing journey was over.

Lisa: 5:31

As we do.

holly: 5:32

We're like, yeah, nailed it.

Lisa: 5:34

Let's go. Oh my

holly: 5:35

gosh, and now going through it just again now,, seven years later at 34 years old, I was like, Oh gosh, it is When they say it's a journey, it's, you, how I see it now, I'm like, oh, you just, you scratch the surface and you chip away, and you go deeper, and then you chip away again, and then something else comes up and you chip away even more, and it's, it's ongoing, and there's a little bit of like, I think I felt a little like, I can't just figure it out and then figure it out once and then be good and be, you know, peaceful and everything's just going to be easy peasy. But also I think at the same time there's a lot of like excitement in that too. There's, whenever you're going through something, uh, there's always. An opportunity to learn more about yourself, uh, the inward work is tough, but it's so, it's so good. So yeah, kind of more recently I think it's, it really revealed a lot with, managing. People all in working, alongside a lot of a lot of different folks and needing to have this feeling of, being a mentor and being a guide and, Motivating people. Uh, it's can be a lot of pressure. So I think sometimes with entrepreneurship, it's almost like, yeah, you got to be ready to, you know, it takes a certain type of person to run a business for sure. But it also like you need to be really open to look at yourself as well. And be okay with Doing the wrong thing and, looking, looking inward and seeing how you can make those changes moving forward and always growing to like, you're not perfect. And, maybe sometimes we, we view people in certain, certain places in our lives like I would, I would say you know, teachers growing up or coaches I had, or my parents or a boss, they kind of all fall in this area of They should know better. They should know best. I think from the people that are learning from them and I really am trying to be really gentle on myself now and understand that you know, I, I will be very open my team that sometimes I don't know best and I'm a human as well. And I make their I make, you know, the wrong choices sometimes and just having that grace and compassion. I, I do it with my staff. I really try really hard and It's really nice when they can kind of have that for you and because it really is what helps the growth process when we have understanding for one another, when we create those safe spaces, when, you know, we're, we're not coming from a place of, you know, having huge expectations for people and understanding that everyone makes mistakes. So yeah, yeah, more recently I feel like I've been kind of transitioning this in the last year and a half, but what really has supported me was something I did, uh, it's called The Presence Process. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's a book.

Lisa: 8:44

I have heard of it, but please tell us more.

holly: 8:48

Yeah, so it's a book written by Michael Brown and, and a process, I guess, so it's all about coming to present moment awareness and how we can find that within ourselves. And basically it says like the, the reason for most of our suffering. Most of our reactivity is when we live in time. We keep thinking about the past when we keep worrying about the future and not just being in the here and now. And it's a guide, a 10 week breathing guide on how to achieve present moment awareness. And not try to push away these feelings that seem negative or unbecoming of a boss or something. It's about Allowing them, letting them pass through, feeling them, not giving them a whole lot of weight sometimes, but knowing that they are messengers to understand deeper, uh, about us and our, you know, upbringing and things that we've taken on and maybe behaviors that we're, you know, wanting to work on more and just allowing them to, just to feel them. What does it say in the book? Once you do the process, it says this isn't, you shouldn't be entering this to try to feel better. It's to try to get better at feeling. I love that. Because that's what we do as a society. We suppress all the time. We just, things are going on and we push it down and then we blame and deflect and don't take the responsibility. And we really can't push other people to see something. It's all about us, you know, handling things in a better way that's just healthier and still allowing the feelings to happen. Bye. Maybe not giving them as much weight and as much of the story, the mental story we tell ourselves about them. So, I just started that process just last November and I finished in February, and it was pretty powerful for me. It was. I'm going to, I'm going to actually, uh, do it again pretty soon here. Cause it's something that is lifelong. Just like how I said, I didn't realize healing was like, I thought I could just figure it out one time. But it's been really good. It's the breathing exercises that I've been doing and just, uh, just the looking, looking inward and, you know, a part of the presence process too, is about how do we achieve this without. Therapy without you know, healing ceremonies, without psychedelics, there's things that bring us into present moment awareness, but really, we all, we have the answers within ourselves, if we're willing to do that, put that work in and what a just joy and delight when we can have that power and that strength to, you know, figure out what's going on with us and ourselves. And yes, it doesn't mean that therapy and ceremonies and certain things are not. not, not good to do, but we don't have them every day. You don't, it's not like you're gonna, you can't talk to your therapist every single day. I don't think you can anyways. It might be very expensive.

Lisa: 11:54

It'd be very expensive.

holly: 11:56

Yeah. I don't think it's recommended to do like psychedelics every single day. No, definitely not. No. So, but it's like, we have these experiences that can bring us into this present moment where it's, but then there's also work we can do every day of just, What, like just breathing, uh, just taking a step back, talking to yourself, you know, having that moment with yourself and working through it and working through your feelings. So yeah, that's kind of what I've been doing lately.

Lisa: 12:26

Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that, Holly. I think you've touched on just so many juicy parts of the healing journey. A, we're number one, it never ends.

holly: 12:42

Oh, yeah. It's, yeah, I was like. But that's also cool at the same time. Yeah,

Lisa: 12:49

exactly. I tend to look at it more these days, like, learning how to feel feelings. Learning how to be more present, learning how to always find and look for the things that make me curious and excited while also looking at the things that hurt that don't feel so good. and you really spotlighted something I think that so many entrepreneurs struggle with. I know that I did when I was responsible for employees. When you're trying to be in this role of, again, mentoring and, managing yourself while also managing other folks and trying to create these spaces where people feel comfortable, it's really hard to do sometimes when we're struggling. and so often we can pedestal people like you mentioned, right? It's like my therapist, obviously they don't have any problems or my coach, obviously they, they're not going through a journey of their own and it's just so far from the truth. We have to bring back this element of how can our humanity come first. in, in the workplace? How can we look at another human being and say I'm struggling. I'm doing the best that I can. And yes, I'm not going to get it right all of the time. It takes a certain amount of vulnerability and a willingness to meet ourselves and those around us, like where we're at. And that's such a, that's such a brave and lovely and painful and scary thing.

holly: 14:33

All of the things.

Lisa: 14:34

All of the things, and I think it just better equips us at the compassion and the empathy that's required to be able to be with other people. And be able to see someone else's struggles and show up in a way that is kind, that is understanding. So. I just really wanted to highlight those things and, another thing that you mentioned about, even just experiencing your parents divorce when you were older. I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't not hurt no matter how old we are. And even if we know it's for the best, yeah. Even if we're like, yeah, this thing needs to happen. It still doesn't make it, it doesn't take away the pain of and the grief that comes with an ending.

holly: 15:24

Totally. Uh, it's hard. I think I've, I've been trying to do a little bit more of the my own like inner child work and it's taken me, I don't know that there might be something about your thirties. I don't know. Like it, I feel like it took, took a while to get here. And I think it's, a theme I, I've heard and seen with a few more of my, the people around me at this age. And I think though, too, like sometimes I, I get up on myself where I'm like, gosh, if only I did this sooner. Yeah. If only I did this sooner, but I'm like, I think, Enough life has to happen, too. Enough experiences, enough messengers, enough reflections and projections, and enough repeating the same things for you to realize oh, I'm repeating patterns, or hey, maybe this is a me problem. It's, and oftentimes, there's, like, our, Are the issues that we have, it is us, it's not, or these things that seem like I, I think that's what kind of came up to me with a few, it was like last summer and it was like, why does this keep happening? Like I think I'm a good person and I think I do the right things, but why do I feel responsible for other people's happiness? Like that was kind of it. And I'm like, or I'm like attracting these people that I'm like, yeah, maybe attracting it, but I think I'm attracted to them too. Like I think, and then really it comes from. Okay let's reflect. Let's look at it. What has happened in my life? What has been kind of brought up in my childhood of you know, maybe feeling responsible for other people's happiness, which is, you know, allowed me to push away down my knees. and just try to make everyone around me happy and it really doesn't make everyone happy and it doesn't make you happy. And then when you're not happy you become resentful and yeah, just taking that time to be like, what? What is going on? And, and to do that though, you need space. I think a huge thing why this took so long was a lot of the things I was going through. I was so busy with work. Yeah. So busy with, like, I, I didn't, I felt like I didn't take the time to be alone. I probably was honestly suppressing working on it too. Like, I would be working all the time. Yeah. And then, uh, because maybe I wasn't ready to have a big cry about myself, have a big cry about like, okay, it's me too. But I think with time, like you become more gentle. To yourself and just think of how hard we are on our are on other people and it's like it's not about being hard on yourself and Feeling a ton of shame. It's about just recognizing I, you get why you've done the things you've done. You get why, you know, you've, you're a part of it. You're a part of the story you're creating. It's not that everything is happening to you, you know. these things that you're kind of bringing on or that don't feel great you do have a responsibility a little bit to reflect, to understand, to see how you're contributing. It's not, it doesn't mean that these things happening outside are good and you're just the bad thing. It's like maybe these are relationships you need to shed, but also There was something in you that it fed. It fed this like, you know, this story that you've been telling this, you know, this persona that you thought you needed to uphold and why. And if you really want it to stop happening, I think that's where I came to. It was just like, certain things were constantly happening where I was just like, Hey, maybe I'm the problem. And he literally had a big rye. I was like, Oh my God. I was like. I'm the problem. And I was like, and then cried about it and then let it pass through didn't last forever And I was like, okay, like it's not a problem. It's just like I'm contributing I'm also a piece of this too and that there is something I've gotten from it But I'm really ready to not take this on anymore, but then you come through a bit of an identity crisis Yeah, when oh gosh, and that's kind of really what I'm moving through now I think this like Wait, but I've been this person. This is, it's no longer serving me very well, but who am I if I'm not putting all these people's needs before my own? Will people leave me? Will people not want to be around me? That's kind of what I've offered, and maybe that's why I've had, like, a lot of people really enjoy being around me. But. I don't, it's a, it's just a fear though. That's also not being present, because then you start fearing that like, who, who am I if I'm not, you know, doing the things that I've used to be doing. And I, I mean, when you do view other people's stories and you hear about it, it gets, it's so much better. Like it's not, the people that are meant to be in your life, the situations that you're meant to like be in, they will stick around. And yeah, it might feel a little bit lonely. It might feel a little bit like you're turning over that new leaf and maybe you haven't completely settled in to that new way of being. But uh, but it will come and you know, really trying to honor right now the resting period of this, the slow down, the like more time because I do need that time to talk to myself. So even if things seem like. I'm trying not to confuse peace or peace boredom right now. Yes. Because I think my life's been kind of like this a little bit and there's been a lot of things and I'm like, hey, peace, peace is, peace is good. And it's not, it's not boredom.

Lisa: 20:56

Well, and within that, I, I also believe that it becomes kind of nice to feel a little bit bored. You know, if I think about, myself as a kid or even just the kids that I see now with the screens and not just being outside, the things that I created and the things that I most loved. Was when I was just outside being bored and then something would arise out of that boredom whether it was like I'm going to go roll in the mud or I'm going to like create a like WWF wrestling ring in my backyard so my friends can come over and play in this, you know, I think that the there is peacefulness in boredom and I think a lot of creativity can come from just like you said, like that self reflective space where you're no longer who you were, but you're not quite. the person that you're becoming either, you know, but even though you are, you are all those things simultaneously and it can get so lonely and can feel isolating because within that, especially if we're used to just saying yes all the time or, always giving way to other people's needs. And then finally we're taking a step back for ourselves, people and situations can drop away. And that, that can feel really, really painful. And the way I look at it now is it's just making more space for the life circumstances, for the friendships, for the deep intimacy to come in, you know, and so, but you gotta, you can't skip the pain. There's no skipping it.

holly: 22:42

No, you can't, unfortunately, but it's a part of it. It makes you, I mean, it makes you appreciate it too. So much more. Can't have the highs without the lows sometimes, you know, it's that dichotomy at the same time. So it's beautiful. It's it's yeah It's it's a nice it's a nice thing when you start feeling feeling like the The hard times are essential. Yeah. You start welcoming them a little bit more and then you start learning what you need. You're like, Oh, going through this, need to slow down and need to spend time with myself, need to say no to some things. And you know, it's, it's part of the process and it's part of me being my best self or the people around me for my business, for my partner, for myself. Like it's, it's essential and it's not mean.

Lisa: 23:38

No. No, and I love when that shift is made. I still remember when, the first time I started putting myself first and had a similar experience of, Oh my God, like people are just like, they only love me because I'm doing things for them and always saying yes. And like, what is this going to look like on the other side of that? And Oh man, it's so much better. For those of you wishing to dive into the world of somatic healing and get a taste of what it's like to discover the wisdom of your body, I'm offering a hundred dollars off my signature course, reclaiming resilience to the listeners of this episode. It is a self paced five week course that teaches you how to be with big emotions and sensations. It expands your capacity for more joy. More love and more pleasure while you also learn how to access your boundaries, intuition, and build safety within your body. Essentially, you'll be learning how to harness the power of your nervous system and welcome in more clarity, authentic communication, and fulfilling relationships. In the program, we are changing the way that we perceive ourselves, our patterns and our limiting beliefs, as well as finding our unique voice. Use the code ALLCAPSFEELGOOD at checkout. And for those of you who are seeking one on one support, I also offer coaching and therapy packages and one on one sessions. I'll pop all of that information in the show notes. And now let's get back to the show.

holly: 25:26

So much better. And so much better. You will have some people that don't like it. Like sometimes you think like most people are going to be okay with it and but it's the people that aren't meant to be around you that don't that aren't okay with it that may be benefited from you know your leniency or your you know catering or your people pleasing you know and there are people you know you've that that really do enjoy that you know and that is what's hard I think right now I'm kind of going through that Feeling of, you know, having some people in my life not be on board with it and it's hard. And then you think from my past, I'm like, Oh, I'm doing the wrong thing. Someone's mad at me. Yeah. Someone's not happy with what I, what me sticking up for kind of my needs and my requests and they're not happy. And then you think like the feeling of someone being unhappy with you, Oh gosh, for me, it's just like. It totally stems from my childhood. Yeah. As it does for most folks, yeah. But then when you realize why, and where it comes from, you're like, Oh, this, this isn't a typical feeling that I need to feel. Like this isn't what everyone feels like when they set a boundary and someone doesn't like it. Like some people are very much like, That's okay we don't have to kinda keep doing this you can go on your way and I'm gonna go on mine, whereas I'm just like, no, I need everyone on my way, I need everyone to like me, I need everyone to think I'm super duper nice and I'm super caring and you don't need that. You don't. And it's part of just understanding like where that comes from and, and, and, and just hugging that person. Like just being like, it's okay that this is the way things were. And it's, it doesn't need to continue. Cause I feel like when people have that feeling of stuck, I've had that feeling before where I didn't think like I just was like, this is the way it is. This is the way I am. This is the way the stress I'm going to feel because this is. It's the way I'm supposed to be. It's the right way to be and then starting to unravel that and being like, and question it and, and be curious, like you said. And it's, uh, yeah, it's not an, it's not an easy thing to go through, but it's so essential.

Lisa: 27:50

Yeah. And it especially hits harder when it's people that, have been around for a long time or perhaps someone that we've considered an intimate close friendship or whatever that looks like. And so again, it brings up this, this new ability to be able to handle conflict. And that takes. Yes. Boundaries that takes being able to stand up for who we are becoming and moving past all of these things that have hurt us in the past that are controlling our present and our future, leading us into places of this is just the way it is been there. I'm like, I don't know when I'm in this scenario, this is just how I feel and this is just what I do. Thank you. You know, and then it wasn't until I was actually ready to start looking at those things where it's like, Oh my God, no, this isn't the way, yeah, not everyone feels like this in this kind of situation. Not everyone shrinks or, you know, feels completely overwhelmed by having to say no or having to challenge someone on something, and so what a beautiful process to become aware of that. And I think. He said something also really important about resentment. You know, anytime that resentment bubbles up, it's a pretty clear indicator of a need not being met.

holly: 29:18

And what a joy to realize that it's in your power, like it's not, it's not someone else's job. It's your job and that personal responsibility of the quality of your life is something that I've been really. Like I've just been like, yeah, like I think and that is, it's part of the journey. Like, I didn't always think that like, I didn't, I thought it was other people's job.

Lisa: 29:45

Yeah, me too. Like it's you! To behave,

holly: 29:48

yes. To behave differently, to be more like me, essentially, or I don't know. And just, yeah. But then it's, yeah. That's what boundaries are and then just understanding that it's like the quality of my life is Completely in my power. It's completely in my control You know, obviously things come up like there's there's external things but not letting those external things like affect you as much and Knowing that you have a choice every day and what you do your life is choice how you view life is a choice Yeah, choosing to be happy Is a choice and it doesn't mean that everything in your life is always going perfectly because that's just not what life's about. It's not supposed to. We're here, I truly believe that we're here to go through all these things, go through all these kind of experiences to help bring our souls, if you will, like, into that new state of consciousness and awareness. And, you know, I do believe that, you know, our souls have more than one life and we kind of keep choosing to come back to earth and go through what is it called earth school?

Lisa: 31:03

Yeah.

holly: 31:03

They call it earth school. And when you've Life like as I know, it's it's the world's tough right now. I think it's always been tough for a while. I think there's more of a lens and an awareness of the challenges going on, which I think is important. With social media, with the internet, like we know of so much happening. There's a lot we don't know that's happening, but we do know a lot more and that has made I think it feel pretty. Like, pretty uncomfortable ignorance is bliss, and I think our, us as humans have been in an ignorant stage for a very long time on really what's going on, and It's not that things maybe are worse. We don't really know but I think there's a lens on it and that's challenging because it's, it's super stressful like this, this world doesn't create, you know, have the same opportunities for everyone. And I think we can get really bogged down by. What's happening, feeling helpless, feeling hopeless whatever's happening politically, you know, anything, anything going on in this world right now, you could just name anything in any subject and there's something that's like pretty, pretty oppressive to a lot of people and not based on love, not based on, you know, supporting one another. And we can have that feeling of being helpless and hopeless and like it's never going to change. I think we're moving into a different place. Who knows where it's going to go to, but it's going to take time. And I also feel like I understand it's kind of what this world is. It's challenging. It is it's school it's, you know, and you still practice compassion and love when you're really beaten down and when you're really not feeling that for other people how do you still show up for yourself and show up for the people around you and spread that love to whatever. Community you have to either your family to either your your your workplace to it doesn't It's it's hard. Sometimes we think we're like Oh, we just wish we could just heal the world and just make this world like better But we're i'm just one person and then that feeling doesn't put you in a place to like, hey Like i'd still I have a job to do in the community I've created in the world that i've created and this is what I can control. Yeah. You Practicing love loving one another. Yeah, it's just like not having prejudice as well. Loving the people, like the hardest thing, and like, I think this is what they consider maybe enlightenment, but loving people that are very, very, very, maybe challenging to love. And that's kind of, That's really one day where I don't know if I'll ever get there, I think I can, I hope so, but just having that awareness of compassion and understanding for the people around me like it's, and that it's not no one's fault. It's no one's fault for what we're going through and the experience and we're all in our different lessons, learning them. And yeah, it's, it's not taking things on, it's that aren't ours. It's, it's always trying to live. to support the, the world that you wish you could live in, you know, and that involves caring for one another and understanding and having boundaries, but, you know, just ensuring that you're, you're protecting your energy and you're giving out the best energy that you can all the time.

Lisa: 34:46

Yeah. Well, and also within that, And I think I, I had chatted with James Olivia on my podcast a little while ago about this idea of, you don't have to like someone to like them. In order to want what's best for them, you know, meaning that we don't have to like everyone and not everyone has to like us in order for us to want people to have enough food to have, to be thriving, to be well, to have health care, to have a quality, you know, that is the, the humanness. in us, the connection. And I think that's one of the big reasons why we do this work is so we can see beyond our limitations. We can see beyond the things that we were taught or the things that we internalize that maybe aren't working so well for us now,, so that we can unlearn the shit that's not helping us in this part of our journey. And I know that like you're championing, championing, oh my God, I can't even say the word, championing this right now in the workplace, you know, being able to have inclusive spaces where like, when I go on Milk Jar's site, on Instagram, I'm like, this is good. Like people are having fun. People are connecting. And although I'm sure it's not that all the time, creating a community like that takes work. And it takes practice and it takes unlearning and relearning how to treat each other in a way that is, like you said, compassionate and kind and being able to meet people where they are at and listen to people and truly hear each other out. And so I'm also wondering within that If you've noticed a big shift since doing this work within your connections at work and within your connections with your partnerships and in, in your friendships, like what are the things that you've noticed that you have, I don't know, more space for, or just, yeah, it's nuanced. So I'm sure there's many.

holly: 36:58

Totally. I, since doing this work, it has It's really helped me clear, clear the crap. I don't know. Like, like in, in a sense, like my emails sometimes like it's really made me look at what is important, like what is and it's challenging sometimes because it's all about balance. It's not that any one thing is more important than the other. The business doing well. And being financially successful is important. It's not the only thing. Right. Also, our team being able to come to a safe space and have their voices heard when they need an accommodation is definitely important. But to a, there's always things that are about balance and it's like, we're always still trying to figure out like, we never want to swing one way and we, my business has swung both ways a little bit. Like. Where play came first, work came second, and then we've gone sometimes in periods where, you know, that was so out of balance that it was not conducive to a good work environment because at the end of the day, we're still a business, we're still a workplace, and I always kind of, I always try to give a lot of understanding to my team because communication is everything and I don't always communicate everything, but when I do, I really try to let them know, like, you know, by wanting people to work effectively to the best of their ability, that is all I ask for, to the best of your ability, work effectively, if you need an accommodation, if you need to leave early, if you need a longer lunch break, you just, just communicate it. Just let me know. And usually we can make it happen as long as it works. It's, it's just so, it's so important to have that like nice blend and balance. Because, we have to ensure that the combination works. For everyone, that's kind of something I've realized, like, sometimes, there's always a balance of people to really understanding and respecting that, certain things are not to be taken advantage of, but you're always going to have people, because people are complex, that people that see things as, I can, push the envelope a little bit. So, how can we always make sure that we're in balance, that we're, treating everyone as equally as possible, you know. An accommodation. I've kind of said this, if I can make the accommodation for everyone, then I will do it. Like if it's kind of, so, if it's an accommodation that you're requesting that is not, good for the business or you, or it's something I really could not offer everyone, then that would be a little bit challenging. I always want to look through the lens of, you know, if, if someone left their work at Milk Jar and they got a job somewhere else, did I set them up for success to know what is expected of them and how to come to work and present themselves in a workplace? Because that's so really important. Like, not every workplace is going to be like Milk Jar. Where we are, like people can listen to their headphones and podcasts while they're working where are super leaning on things people can really ask for things but not many other businesses do this and it doesn't mean that we can't be like that. But it means we means that we have to let them know like, Hey, this is, this is what we're doing. It needs to be respected as well. It's a really amazing thing that we're offering, but a lot of other businesses may not offer this. So, how we keep it going and how it works for us and where you go into workplaces that you're still coming to work, ready to work. On time, ready to work to the best of your ability, ready to come in a positive attitude. And that's what's really important. But we can still do like celebrate birthdays and you can ask for some flexibility if that is what's best for you. And we can work at work at it together. But it is everything I've really realized is about balance. You cannot swing one way. You can't be a business that, you know, lets the. The team just dictate and decide how they work and what they do because structure is still really important and we do have a business to run and customers to take care of, but you also can't be this like rigid place that doesn't care about connecting and just wants people to come in, not talk to anyone, get the work done and get as quick as they can and get out of here. That's not what we want either. It's a balance of both and having people, you know, learn to come in and, you know, Love what they're doing is also a challenge of that, too, because Like, work's work we do, I mean, it's nice when you purpose in your work, but I'll be honest, I had a lot of jobs when I was in my 20s that I did not care about. And it was a paycheck, and I'm also very understanding, why people are really here is to I'm sure no one here would volunteer to work at Monk Chart, like, it's, we need to pay to live, we need to support ourselves, it's great if we can do work that we care about as well. But in a nutshell, people are here to support themselves. At the same time, and hopefully do it in a place that they believe in as well. But that is what's essential. Like, people need to take care of themselves and need to pay the bills and pay for their rent. Because, you know, it's It's, it's, it's the whole reason why we work. And I'm not, I'm also not, you know, naive to think that people are just coming to our business just because of our,, what we do like people it's, there's, there's always a personal reason behind it as well as there should be which I think makes me see, see their side of things as well. You know, I think I've had bosses in my past where they just thought they were giving their employees. It's a gift to work at their company. And it's like, well, like, I mean, yeah, it's a good thing for a job, but it's like, it's a gift to you because it's your business and it's your purpose and your passion, which is amazing. You have people that want to support you in it and offer their skills, but really they're here because they need to take care of themselves and they want to live a good life. So yeah, I'm not naive to that as well. Yeah, it's just that balance, understanding, figuring out that balance is, that little pendulum is always going to be swinging, and hopefully we'll get it still one day, but we also may not, and that's okay.

Lisa: 43:18

Well, yeah, and people, like you said, are people, people go to work because we need money, we need groceries, we need to support our families. And it's an extra bonus if you can come into a place where you can listen to podcasts and ask for time off and, you know, just have a little fun because I mean, a job, a lot of people are there anywhere between five and nine hours a day. And so if you can't, Show up to a place that you're at least somewhat excited about going to or hanging out with the people that work there and you enjoy their company that just makes it like a sludge. And so to be able to know that that's something that you want to create and to be able to create that,, alongside with,, you've done a lot of work with charity, including that inclusive employment program, which, I mean, I'd love to know more about because it kind of speaks to everything that you're speaking to. And I think that bringing this back to being on a healing journey, It's like the more that we heal internally, the more we want to support ourselves and our community in a way that feels expansive and supportive and giving. And we change our own little bubble. We have control over that little bubble, the things that we're putting out there and how we're treating people and how we're treating ourselves. So yeah,

holly: 44:44

I think people don't realize how much, like how I was kind of talking about before it. That's where we can feel helpless and hopeless on what to do externally. That's right. But I think this is something I've realized is. It starts with you, like you doing that work, you understanding yourselves, you giving yourself compassion and love and, you know, forgiving yourself and, looking at the things you do that you're not maybe the most proud of, but with love and then making those changes and accepting feedback and, you figuring out the things that you are ingrained in you that you've learned because you were scared when you were a kid or something happened, and, You doing that work is what will infect the world around you, like infect your community, like it's, it will spread and it's someone showing another person a little bit of compassion that can move mountains, honestly, like even when someone has done something. That typically maybe most people would just cast them aside or something, but show it giving them that feedback and saying, Hey, this upset me, but Hey, I want to talk about it and I want to give you feedback and we can move on from this. And, but like, I just need to give you this awareness, you know, talking about those things and not just like, You know, being hateful or hurtful or and just like, you know, blaming and deflecting and just like really ostracizing someone. That is what keeps someone in this, this space of like needing to protect themselves because they're being attacked and, not, you know, Working on themselves and it's, but it's when you kind of approach things in this way where you're like where people haven't really felt that before and it's like, wow, like I'm willing to look at myself and look at the things I've done because someone created a safe space for me to tell me about it and where I don't feel like attacked or like I'm a bad person, you know, really that and then they start going through that personal journey of like, hey, it's okay for me to, say I'm sorry. It's okay for me to do that. And because this person's allowed me to, say I'm sorry and, and, you know, I don't feel this need to protect myself because they're like coming at me angry and attacking me and saying I did all these things wrong. And, I've, I haven't always done this. And I've seen now, like when people have shown me compassion, I'm just like, it's okay. It's, it's done more than someone coming and yelling at me that I messed up.

Lisa: 47:18

You

holly: 47:19

know? And I, when someone does that for you, like, I've even reflected that, like, I need to do that for other people. Yeah. Like, it's the only, it's, it's what I want. I'm so grateful that some people in my life have shown me love when trying to give me some critical feedback. That's right. And that has done more for my growth and more for, changing. You know, the situation or whatever, or the circumstance. And that's where, that's where the change happens. That's where, we can maybe have a little bit of maybe control of the outcome. You can, you, it's like that saying, you catch more flies than honey. You know, or bees with honey, flies with honey, I don't know, one

Lisa: 48:00

of those

holly: 48:01

things. Both. It is, blindness really goes a long way and, you know, it's not going to work every time. Not going to work, but that's okay, but, it's, it feels better to treat people that way. And, yeah. It feels better for me. Treat people the way you want to be treated. I love when people just come with understanding and compassion for me as, you know, a human being as well that can make mistakes and that's willing to listen. So, I really try to do that for other people and that's, that's how we can change the world around us. I mean, even if it's just a small little area, even if it's just in your family it makes a difference.

Lisa: 48:36

Yeah. Especially in the family. Oh my God, it's so huge. And there's, there's no way for us individually to do this kind of work and not have the ripple effect of those around us noticing, we're all feeling each other. We're all like you said, it's like we can come at a situation or come at a person with,, contempt and assumptions, or we can come at it with curiosity and compassion and a willingness to have a hard conversation. And that's a different way to come at something, a conversation. And so, but that also comes with being able to hold the discomfort that lives within us.

holly: 49:17

Yes. And that's the hardest thing. I, I think, uh, I think I was like listening to one of her talks. But choose, choose uncomfortability over resentment. Whenever she has to like make a decision and say yes or no to something, she just thinks like choose uncomfortability over resentment. And then that helps guide her choice. Exactly. And what she's gonna do. And just taking that space to really think about what you're doing.

Lisa: 49:46

Exactly. And dang, it's not easy. If I think about marriage and partnerships and, you know, feeling something but being really afraid to talk about the truth that resides in that feeling it's so easy just to go back to being the people that we were rather than the people that we know that we want to step into that have different desires and wants and needs and all of these things. And so. Yeah, it's, it's, it's an interesting thing to, to come into contact with, especially within our friendships and our partnerships, this ability to be able to not only have these, these hard conversations, but to be able to be with the outcome. Whatever that might be.

holly: 50:38

And yeah, the heart, like when you do a really hard thing, it gets easier. Like once you do it, you expand. What is it? Your intuitive fence, like something, it's like we have this fence of what's possible is on the inside and impossible is on the outside. But if you expand that fence and that idea, Uh, of like, no, what's impossible I can do. It is achievable. Your fence gets bigger and then what's impossible is now way out here. And then it's, your life becomes so much richer when you can, you know, you can look at things that scare you and even give them life. Like, ooh, that's, this is gonna sting or this is gonna hurt. But you see it as The world's not gonna end. And also if someone, and also think of two, think of the outcome let's just take a partner by chance. Okay, I'm going to tell my partner that, you know, I'm not happy in this relationship or something. I'm going to say, I'm not happy. And I'm going to say this, this big thing. And you know, the worst thing that can happen is, You know, they leave me or they don't listen to me and if that's what you're scared of, but then if you actually think about it, it's like, okay, I'm saying a need and just trying to have an open, real conversation. If your partner is going to leave you for that, they're probably not the person that you should be having your life with. Like, they're not that person. Like, they, they're not creating a safe space. They're not coming at you with no judgment. Right? And. You know, sometimes it's like easier to be like, oh, but I don't want to know that that could be the outcome because then my life has to be up because you got to blow your life up at that. Blowing your life up really isn't that sometimes a little exciting. And sometimes it's just that You know what? I'm fine. You know who I'm here for? I'm here for me. I'm here to spread love, spread joy, be as good as I can, and the people around me, I want to be doing the same thing. They're here for them, and they're spreading that love, and they're spreading that joy, and they can, you know, have difficult conversations, because I want to have difficult conversations. Like, I know that makes me better, so I want that in my partner, I want that in my staff, I want that in, you know, and it, and it's not that they have to have it right away, but they're willing to, you know, work on it. They're willing to try. They're willing to see the benefit of it because yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not that scary really. It's, it's once you do it a couple times, it gets easier and your life just gets better and you start living, living a life that you were meant to be living.

Lisa: 53:06

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that saying of everything that is easy was once hard. It's just like we learn by moving towards the things that scare us and you're speaking directly to like building capacity, building capacity to be with our own emotions, with other people's emotions and to be able to hold this container of, okay, like this is something I had to do. So now if it's something that you have to do, I can hold the space for that. I can hold the space for you to be able to be in that hard spot, which is. absolutely such an incredible gift. It's like the gift.

holly: 53:49

Oh my gosh, it is. It's, it really, when you, I mean, we're human beings that love connection and we need, we need connection for survival. We do, we need people in our life. So when you already know you have someone safe that you can like trust, who's going to be okay with this hard stuff as you work through this hard stuff, like what a joy. So doing, getting yourself there. So you can be that for other people is just is literally how we're going to change the world and how we're going to live in a place that, you know, we can handle things and we can live like better lives. It doesn't mean hard things are not going to happen though. Oh my God, they are going to happen. There's going to be things that come up. There's going to be, things completely out of our control. And it's gonna happen. I think that we can work through it together and we can feel it and we can, just hold space and have understanding for one another. It's just so amazing. And then when these hard things come up, we're willing to feel it. We're willing to see if we're responding or are we reacting. We're willing to do the work to make sure we can be in a state of response so that, we don't become victims. We don't become voyagers. We don't, we just stay in the space of, Just being love. That's it. And trying our hardest and it doesn't mean we're going to feel love all the time, but always trying to get awesomely back into that space, is kind of where I come to and it's been in terms of like work. Like, I, it's truly changed my life like doing the inner work I've done. I've done the therapy. Presence process was. It was after a year and a half of like, figuring out my past a little bit. But maybe my past when I was looking at it, it was more of a blame game for me. It was more of a, this is what happened to me. And like all these things that I was just like mad, I was mad at people around me, mad at people in my life. And it's, it was so part of the process. It's okay. I needed to feel that. I needed to feel that anger. I needed to, you know, have, play that blame game. I needed to be looking at it. At least it was getting me into reflecting and looking at it. So that's where it started. I maybe wasn't responding. I was reacting at the time, but now I, it's, it truly is a journey and As you just keep looking at it and keep going and keep trying to ask yourself questions and sit with yourself, eventually you'll start asking more questions of like, hey, like, you know, maybe I need to look at this differently because it's still happening. Why is it still happening? Why am I still struggling with this? And yeah, and then it's the powers in you and then it's, it's really, it's really helped me, you know, just ride the tides of, business of life of, and I feel like I haven't been taking things. I've been taking the right things seriously. And I've been taking the non essential things that the, just the silly things, not as seriously. Yeah. It's so it's really as a, I think I'm still in the space of moving through it, but I think it's helping me have more boundaries that are appropriate. That are kind communicating a lot more, having understanding a lot more and just not living in this like, worry of the future. I mean, with business, when you own your own business, like worrying about the future is something that kind of comes with it It removes you from enjoying what's happening today and so much good stuff is happening today. We get really amazing, you know, customer emails that come in of people just loving what we're doing. We, you know, we just, we, we do so much donating, like you were saying, and, you know, the organizations that we donated to this past year. Last year we donated outside of Alberta for the first time, so anywhere where purchases were made if it was like a substantial amount, like around 1, 000 or like 800, we then donated back into that place. So I think we donated to two organizations in the States, we donated to Mellie's Cafe in Toronto a big one because we have so many Toronto purchases, and I really was like, I want, when people make purchases, I want my money to go back in their community. So, and then, yeah, Melly's was just like blown away and they're an inclusive cafe and they do amazing work experience program at Milk Jar, hopefully this year. If I have the time and I have the support here, we can work it out, but it's, it's, it's, that's what's present, that's what's happening, that's what's known. So why not enjoy it and stop worrying about, I don't know, some potential hazard or whatever that could happen when we're doing everything in our power to have it not happen, but it could be out of our control. And that has made me, you know, I think less stressed here. Like I, there's periods where I've been really stressed that I'm sure of that worry and, but people feel it, that energy spreads in a workplace and it's not conducive to a good working environment.

Lisa: 59:01

Yeah, I mean, God, everything that you just shared, everybody get into the present moment.

holly: 59:10

Oh my gosh, it changes your life and it's, yeah, just be present and I mean, I've heard that for so long. Like just be present, just be present and I was like, how the hell do I just be present? Like, it's like almost like you can snap your fingers and be present, it's like, it's really hard when we've been living together. In a world and grew up in this society where it's constantly about the future, the future, the future. Like, think about where you want to go to school, think about what career you're gonna have. Like, even like not embracing the time that you're in when you're a kid. Like, I remember even just so much feeling like, Oh, I want to be older. I want to be older. And, you know, it's, uh, really how you, I mean, if you want to look at the presence process, you can look it up. I mean, doing this 10 week, Breathing exercise. So it was, I don't meditate or I haven't ever, but it was just more breathing. So it was 15 minutes in the morning, 15 minutes at night, uh, before bed. So right when you wake up, right before you go to bed and you breathe for 15 minutes and it's more, it's not any certain type of breathing. It's literally just life breathing, just how to live. So it's not hard to do. It's just reminding you to come back. I am here now in this. And with each breath I am here now in this and it just brings you back down into that and it really does work where you carry. It with you throughout your day, like I didn't believe any of that stuff that it was gonna. Okay, I'll breathe for 15 minutes then I'm gonna forget about it right away and it's, it really does kind of change you like I really, and I do understand why the process was now 10 weeks because you're supposed to keep at it and stuff. And it's really all about being accepting that hard moments happen is, and forgiving yourself and looking back at kind of, you know, why, why we struggle with things and why we struggle in different ways. Like my, if someone does something that makes me react. not everyone would have reacted to that same thing. So why did I react to it? Why did that ruin my day? And then it's about looking at like, okay, like for, Someone else that that wouldn't have bothered him. How do I get there? Or how do I like just kind of how do I not let this not that it doesn't upset me, but I don't react to it. Things can still upset me. I am who I am. And that's it. It's understanding that you accept who you are and what you've dealt with. But it's learning to just ride the tides as they happen. So it's been an amazing thing. And it's really cool. I'm happy I was able to share that today because I truly believe now, if you're going to be an entrepreneur, you better be, you better be ready to do some work because especially if you have employees more so, and you're really trying to, you know, motivate and be this, I mean, be the best boss he can be. It's going to bring up a lot of, A lot of reflections from your past of things you've got to deal with too, and if you can't manage yourself, you can't manage other people. So, I though think though, don't be scared to do it, because see it as if it's a little scary, that's that uncomfortability of like, Ooh, I'm not going to be very good at this, but I want to be good at it, and it's going to teach me a lot. I'm going to dive right in, own this business, have the staff, and I'm going to go through all the motions and I, this is my lesson. Like, I'm going to learn a lot and I'm going to, like, tackle it head on.

Lisa: 1:02:40

Yeah. Absolutely. And leading by example. You know, it's such a great opportunity to step into that leadership role because you're right, business highlights all the shit. Ain't no hiding.

holly: 1:02:56

Yeah.

Lisa: 1:02:58

There's, there's no hiding, especially like you said, when you have employees and you're like trying to manage all of these things, it will come out, you know, and so having these skills and being able to. Yeah. have these processes that help you to see the triggers as opportunities. as opportunities to go deeper into ourselves and see how we can become more responsive and not always so reactive. And that shit's always going to happen. There's always going to be something that comes up that, is going to make us reactive but, we can lessen those times. I'm really happy that you were able to come on here and share so much of your journey and your vulnerabilities around being in business, but also being on this, this healing journey. And so I just want to say. Thank you so much for for being here with me today. And I also would love to hear where people can find you. And also if you have any new projects coming up that you would love for people to know about.

holly: 1:04:01

Thank you so much, Lisa, for having me. It's been an honor to share a little bit more of more personal side of, you know, dealing with. The things that come with being an entrepreneur and yeah, I think what you're doing is amazing. So thanks for creating a platform for people to hear this sort of thing. So you can find us if you're in Calgary. We have a workshop in the central northeast. We're near near Marlboro, Marlboro Mall. We teach candle making classes that you can view on our website and come learn how to blend scents and make a candle diffuser. You can purchase at our workshop and online. So our website's milkjar. ca. And some things coming down the pipe. We are going to be at the stampede this year, uh, the market. Get there for the first time. We're going to be trying to come out with some maybe stampede scents perhaps a pancake breakfast. We're not sure yet. I was thinking a dill pickle would be cool. Like they have the dill pickles and the dill pickle scent, but I don't know if we'll go for that. We're trying to come out with a couple new products that it's not set in stone yet, so I probably shouldn't say it, but it might be something for the car. Okay, you got what I mean. So we're hoping to do that. Yeah, we're hoping to do that this year this summer. We'll be at Folk Fest again at Lilac Fest. So yeah, it's summer's coming. It's getting warmer. I mean, it's gonna snow again, pretty soon, but it's getting warmer now. And yeah. I'm super excited to see, like, kind of, what happens to the milk chart this year. It's, it's, it's been a beautiful, beautiful journey, professionally and personally, and I wouldn't change it for anything, 100%.

Lisa: 1:05:46

Hmm. Beautiful. Holly. Well, I hope that you're able to enjoy some of the sunshine that's out there today before it snows. I think that's coming Wednesday, a big dump. And thank you for letting us know what is coming up for a milk jar. I love your company. I love what you stand for. Yeah. So thank you so much for putting out your passions and yourself into the world.

holly: 1:06:11

Lisa,

Lisa: 1:06:12

you're welcome. So yeah, enjoy the day and bye for now. As always, thank you so much for listening. Life is busy. So it means even more that you're carving out time in your day to be here. Listen, we've got so many great episodes coming up, so please make sure you subscribe to follow along on Apple podcasts or Spotify. And for those of you who like to watch your podcasts, we are now uploading them to YouTube. And if you appreciate these episodes, please do us a favor and leave a rating or a review and share it with anyone you think could benefit. See you again next Wednesday.