Beccy: An After-Hours Chat -- Her Story of Healing and Giving

In this episode, Derek is joined by his friend and former colleague, Beccy.  Beccy shares some of her story growing up on a farm in the 80s and 90s, and how she dreamed of being a mother and supporter of her children, along with offering a safe place to the friends of her children.  Additionally, she opens up about part of her journey that led her to a career path similar to Derek's own, but much sooner in her life.  

She and Derek offer similar approaches to therapy in an effort to, ultimately, see their clients successful and confident in their own self-sufficiency to live healthier lives after therapy than before, regardless of the previous chapters written so far.

Transcript

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Welcome back to the podcast. This is Derek Wittman with Sage In Time and I am joined today by another former colleague and friend of mine, Beccy I'm in the Syracuse, New York area. I'm licensed in New York and Pennsylvania and I'm working talking today with Beccy who is also a therapist in New York. Beccy, do you have any other states you got a license in currently? just New York State right now. just New York right now. Are we working to move on that or just getting through the summer? with Connecticut, I think I've like gotten some things in order and then that was during COVID and then I ended up buying a house up way up north and that didn't end up coming to fruition. So let's talk about, tell your story. What got you into the field as a therapist? You're an LMHC in New York. That's a licensed mental health counselor. So tell us about that journey, if you would. Yeah, so growing up I always wanted to be a teacher because I was wanting to help. I had a really great kindergarten teacher and I knew that's what I wanted to be. I just knew that's what I wanted to be up until I took my first Psych 101 class and entered a psych. I took that in high school. All of my friends, between that and all my friends coming to me, hey, what do I do in this situation? I guess maybe I just, I'm an older soul. I've always been told that. So I guess maybe that was something where they were like, hey, like she's got like a good head on her shoulders. She seems like she can be pretty, you know, even. That's what I make it look like. But so, and then, and it was just from there, it was still a helping profession. I'm obviously a people -pleaser in recovery. so it's, it's something I think that fit really well. and also helped me on like my own therapeutic journey too. So I started my AP classes, my junior year decided that's what I was going to do. Went to SUNY Albany for three and a half years. tried to get a job, like a, you know, like a entry level job. and it was, hey, you don't have any experience. And I was like, it's an entry level job. And so then I was like, well, I guess I'm just gonna go back to school to get my master's and finish it out. Cause I was between therapy and being a forensic psychologist as well. That was my other, I was like, that would be so cool to like. do that, but then that's such a small field and I knew that I wanted to have a family so I knew that probably wasn't gonna mix well. So I ended up going the route of therapy and went to Walden University when it wasn't cool to do school online, which was hard when it came to my internship. They're like, you go to school online? And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. And I found again It was just like time after time everything I went to they were like, you went to school online So we're not really sure you know, it's not really, you know What kind of a program it is and it was accredited and all that stuff. So I thought it was safe And then luckily I got an internship on somebody who wanted to take a chance with me at a mental health hospital in Connecticut and I still chat with my supervisor today and she's, I tell you what, she definitely, I think between the school, but also her guidance on that mental health unit, I had so much supervision. It was, that was a big, that was a big thing, I think, for how I inform my practice now. Now you said going back and my brain just tries to hold on to things that have been said 20 minutes ago. But you said, obviously, you used the word obviously, a people pleaser in recovery. Is that a door you're willing to open today? What's up? Is that a door you're willing to open today? yeah. Yeah. what happened. well, I'm the oldest, and I grew up on a farm and, I still struggle today with, trying to have fun versus working. and I think that's where that kind of came from. growing up, my dad had his own business, worked at home. The garage, he's a mechanic, worked right down, you know, next to the house. Mom worked out of the home. She worked in Syracuse area. Grandma and grandpa lived across the road on 80 acres of land and a farm. There was always work to do. So it was always just expected. If you didn't, you got shit. I think growing up on a farm, I never got hit or anything like that, but yeah, it was very much implied and through tone, expectations. And if you don't do it, well, you just didn't. not do it. Cows to be fed, stuff to be swept. I was driving the tractor with the hay baler and the hay wagon, which is longer than a limousine, all combined. gosh, middle school. Bailing hay, stacking hay, all summer. The kids were like out vacationing and stuff. And we did for a week. My mom always made sure we... We went on vacation for a week at the beach, so it was nice. But there was something in the summer, something in the winter, something in the fall. And we just, you just needed to do that. And if you didn't... Like I said, we never got beat or anything like that, but it was expected. You just, you had to. You never did. You never did find out. You just did what you were told. So. You've always done what you've been told. You've always done what you've been told to do. Until when? three, four, five years ago. That was probably towards, towards maybe the beginning of my separation, maybe from my ex -husband. I think I started as a mom. I think that's when it kind of started being like, you know, I can't, I can't give to everybody. I have to be able to. I have to be able to take care of my kids and I know that if I don't have anything in my cup, right, I can't give it to my kids. And so that I would have to let things drop off here, there, I'd have to make some choices. I have to be able to please me. And so I kind of was learning that through raising babies. You know that song, like growing up raising you, that country song? I've heard it a few times. It's all over TikTok too, I think, but I definitely, I think I grew up a lot even there. And that's when I started to recognize I couldn't be a good mom. And that's the only other thing I wanted to be when I grew up besides a therapist was a mom. I always, that never changed. I always wanted to be a good mom. You know, not necessarily the mom that had all the stuff for... whatever, it was just that mom, you could go to their house and you knew she would have like a snack or a hug or some words of encouragement and just being able to just set everything down like that mom. And I couldn't be that mom if I was so concerned with everything else so that I couldn't even focus on what was in front of me. So probably about being a mom, I think we separated when Hunter was. Well, no, maybe Colin was only one, two, one and a half. I think maybe one and a half, and he's four and a half now. So, about three years. So it's been coming for a little while. Yeah. So you wanted your home to be the place where your kids' friends are coming over. You've got the snacks, you've got the maybe the cool stuff. I don't know what cool stuff kids are into these days, but your mom is so cool, you know. And we love hanging out at your place. Our place isn't this fun. I feel like I can just be myself here. she was. Yeah, I think, you know, we grew up on a farm. We certainly didn't have, we never went without, that's for sure. We definitely had more than the kids in my town. I grew up in a town of like 300 people, tops. My elementary school is now a hotel and wedding venue. Which is so trippy. I don't know why they chose that location, but it's I drive up and I'm like Okay, no, yes And I guess she she was really like that too and a lot of my friends really liked coming to my house and I guess I don't I mean I probably my kids probably have a little bit more than we did have more square feet though, so It's probably evens out for the square footage, but yeah, I guess that's kind of how my mom was. And she was always very, very giving, making sure, you know, that, you know, if a kid came to my house and they didn't have something that they left with it, you know, if a kid didn't have something for Christmas, we always grew up taking angels off the trees. And I remember being able to go shopping for them. We would pick out clothes and toys and that's what I do with my kids now. And they love it. They just, as much as I do, I think that's just, I guess that's kind of part of where I got, like that's what I want to do as a mom. that absolutely love that so I mean, how are you navigating where you are now since you're separated, divorced? How are you navigating just making sure everything is done for you? everything doesn't get done. And that's the biggest thing to like recognize is that for me, it's different, right? Because relationships are work, yes. And there's like that consideration of that other person and caring for that person in a non codependent way and stuff like that. And I think there was some unhealthy stuff that I even did in my own people please eat. Right? Marriage, like putting everybody before me. And that's where, when that started to turn a little bit, because I had to, that's when things started not. So we're navigating, ideally it would be, you know, co -parenting, I think is more parallel, unfortunately, right now. So we're just kind of hanging out with that. The kids... They're doing well in school. They have a busy schedule. Hunter is wrapping up with dance. She's eight. She started soccer. She loves soccer. I always tell them, you gotta do something. Whatever you wanna do, it's just gotta be something. If you don't like dance anymore, finish it out, start something else. Gotta finish it out though. gotta finish it out. Cause you have a team, right? You have your whole like dance lineup you're accounted for when you're doing the routines, you know, all that stuff we can't, we can't abandon them. Obviously if there was something going on mentally that was not great, well then that's, that's where I would draw that exception I suppose, but that's not the case. So I'm like, finish it out. She's got a recital today. She just chopped off all her hair. So I'm gonna have to figure out how you get it in a bun. That'll be fun. She wanted to chop her hair off. It was probably about as long as mine, and she cut up to her shoulders. She loves it. It's cute. It's hair. You know, one of those things I don't, it's something she can control, so she's gonna do that. Collin's doing T -ball. I am, I got roped into. to coaching T -ball. She's like, it's like seven days. Just come and do T -ball. And I'm like, I quite literally have only done like softball and gym in high school. I said, so I really don't know. So I also roped Mr. Fowler into doing that as well. And I was like, hey, we're doing this. And he's like, And I was like, yep, because I don't do. voluntold, right? And he's the best sport about it. I think he really does. He does love it. You know, we've got... He is. He is. And for our listeners, I get to see Beccy and her family's adventures on Facebook and all the things that they're involved in and that they're going through. I actually met, was it Hunter? I think I met Hunter when you were doing a live on, was it Facebook Live or something? And I was commenting, I think you were working on the Christmas tree or something like that. She's like, Mom, who's Derek? Yeah, I met the family. But that's... and lay down one side and the bottom. It's time for a new tree. I found a plug. I found another plug. So we're gonna, we're gonna see if it works. So, but I mean, with some of the stuff that you've gone through, like as a people pleaser in recovery, and I mean, how do you as a clinician address issues of counter transference? And before you answer, counter transference for our audience is not transference. It's not, you know, you're having feelings about... what's going on in therapy and they're impacting your daily life. And you're, I mean, therapy does change our daily lives, but sometimes, you know, we, we develop transference and we, you know, drop out of therapy because our therapist reminds us of somebody who's hurt us in the past. And then, you know, there are movies and suspenseful TV shows made up about individuals who start pining or have interest in their therapist. So that's transference. But counter -transference is the opposite. It's when we as therapists are working with you and our own stuff from our own lives is bubbling up, regardless of where we've been. And it's not the client's fault. We don't share that stuff with the client, but it happens. And it's not a big secret that it happens. We just don't see it in media that much. So how do you manage your counter transference as it comes up? That I definitely have to say is from two big places. One being my supervision. Through both my supervisor Meg Young, you'll have to look her up. She's absolutely amazing. She's in Florida now. She just, she's a wealth of knowledge. She's incredible. I can't say enough amazing things about her because she really taught me a lot. And the biggest thing, right, is boundaries and being self -aware and being able to be present in that moment. You know, I worked at the hospital with you and we would have people, like 60 people on our caseload that would, you know, 50, 60 people and I would say, yeah, yeah. I see we were allowed 15 by state regs. no. So I would have that many clients, so I would see them and I would remember them all. And I remember a lot of my clients being like, geez, you remember that? I said that like when we first started and we're like two years in and I was like, absolutely, because I'm sitting here with you and I'm paying attention to what you're saying and I'm listening to how I'm feeling. And I'm not gonna say it doesn't come up because it absolutely does, because I'm in recovery, right? But the biggest thing for me is I do therapy to help, right? And that's where I have to do it in a not harmful way. So it's not my motivation. It's not coming from me. I have to lean back on my evidence -based skills, right, that were taught. with the boundaries, with being self-aware. So if I feel like I'm struggling with that in a session, I will stop talking. Because most of the time the client will just start talking anyways. They'll fill it. So then we go from there. But the biggest thing I always remember, and that I teach my clients too who also struggle with the same issue, is learning to tie your shoes. I could help my daughter. all day learning to tie their shoes. I can help my son all day trying to tie their shoes and do it for them. That's great, but they're always gonna need me. And I always open up with a new client to say, listen, I'm working myself out of a job. My job is to work myself out of a job. My job is so that you don't need me, so that you say, I had this therapist one time who taught me this skill, and that's my goal. And I know that if I'm going to stay true to that goal, I can't keep tying those shoes as much as my mama heart may want to. That's also the other part of like, I can't be the person that they have to call all the time because how awful does that feel knowing you can't supply your clients with these skills. and then they go out and they do the hard stuff. My client's like, Beccy, you're so amazing. I was like, absolutely not. I said, you listen in session, you listen in session, you do the hard stuff all week. You're the ones making those decisions. Yeah, but not for you. I said, I just gave you the skills and you were just open to listening to me. So I never take accountability for any of their, you know. wins or losses. We process those. I be quiet if I feel like I'm feeling some kind of a way to kind of sit with that in session. And those are the things that I guess I always kind of just keep is boundaries, self -awareness, and always going back to the evidence -based stuff because that's what I want to do. I want to help and I can't help if I'm always the one to... do it. Well, I love the analogy of tying their shoes. Because yes, we could tie our kids shoes forever. But how much more helpful is it to teach them that the bunny runs around the tree? Which I never learned as a kid. So way. My daughter does it. She was me. That's what I was like, you know, that's the way she does it. That's her. That's her process. And that's. That's what works for her. So when our clients are out in town or at the racetrack or whatever, they're thinking, I got to tie my shoes. What would Beccy say? Loop, loop, bunny goes around the tree. Solid. And no, I don't know that rhyme. So if anybody is like, that's totally wrong. No. don't know it either. I did it the other way and there's no running for that. It's just rough. And now with my build, the shoelaces get tucked underneath my feet. I'm not bending over to, I'm not doing it. And even at the gym, I've got the ones you just pull them tight and they kind of spring out. So helpful. But. that like part of getting old? It's not like the same way I'm like I'm not putting shoes on and I'm not tying anything. There's a lot more to look forward to in getting old Beccy. Stay with me. Okay, stay with me. So, what type of clients do you work with? Because you know, this podcast is geared toward specifically bringing attention to how we work within marginalized populations. I do focus my practice niche work with those within different lifestyles, whether they're LGBTQ or what we call consensual non -monogamy, but who do you work with and and and why? Well, I guess I'm pretty open to work with a lot of different things. I guess I can speak to what my profile and my word of mouth kind of brings in, which I guess would just kind of turn into my niche. But I do, I work with a lot of like first timers in therapy. which is really exciting. I can't pick a favorite, but I really love being able to like dig in with somebody who's new and you know, see them be like, wait, that's not, that's not normal. Like that's not like in the normal word, we work around that too, but you know, it's so cool to like see that progress and. I work with a lot of people who are very anxious, struggling with self -esteem, a lot of communication. I've seen a lot of people really get a lot of relief with just switching up a few things in their communication toolbox. The biggest thing is like "butt" and "and" a lot of people like, and it's not really a big deal to like, it's not like. for us who work with that I suppose. It's not really a big thing. It's such a small thing we can do that helps so much. Yes, and that's, I think that's, you know, I certainly have, it's funny being working in addiction, I guess, for the three years before private practice. I really only have come across that maybe a couple times. I don't see that a lot. at least from my profile, life transitions. I definitely have seen people transitioning from high school to college or college to a career. It's, my God, there's just. so much that you can do and there's just so much of an opportunity to learn and to be able to give these people these simple tools that have such a big impact. And then they're like, hey, like, Beccy, I thought of you the other day and you were like in my head and I thought, well, what would Beccy say or what would she, if I was doing this right now, like what would, and I'm just like, you know what, there it is. I'm almost out of a job. Like that's. And the cool thing about what would Becky Beccy or what would Derek say is it's forward thinking. It's hope based. It's not shame filled like, you know, that's not the old I'm Gen X wait till your father gets home. And, you know, for my for my listeners, that was not an issue in my home. But it was in a lot of people's homes, you know, wait till your father gets home or, you know. somebody say I thought of you and I have that conversation with my clients too like look you get an hour with me a week two hours if you're in a crisis less as you're making progress you know in firing me and and yes we do use the word firing you know may not be client centered and it's definitely not said with pain. We look forward to successful firing, working ourselves out of a job because that means that we have done our job well. But more importantly, our clients have done their jobs even better. But I'll tell people, you're with me an hour a week. There are 167 other hours of the week. I'm not following you. I'm not that kind of therapist. There are some, but I'm not one of them. I'm not a peer. I'm not a coach. We're not. Go live your life. And it's so cool to see that and that's like the biggest thing for me that you know as a people pleaser and trying to keep that in line like that's what I want. I don't want my clients to keep coming to me and be like every week and struggling and not learning something because that tells me I'm not functioning. And in working with and I guess the other thing I work with a lot is trauma. I have a couple of really heavy cases for I do some intensives as well and those are heavy but I also love them too and you know people are like jeez Beccy like how do you do that and I was like well that's what I signed up for you know I didn't sign up for people to come and say hey like I had a great day and like look at what I did it's like hey I'm struggling here and what do you got for skills like what am I supposed to and this is this is what I want to be and we work on defining that, right? Like I tell people, we use words all the time of like successful or better, or I wanna, you know, vague. And I said, okay, what does that look like? What does that look like? Because we don't know that we've arrived until we know what our arrival even looks like. We don't, and people are like, wow, yeah, I guess I really like, you know, didn't think about that. And we work on that and we work on how to get there and we establish the goal and then I'd say we work it back. We create that ladder and we just work it back to where you are right now and then boom, there you go. And we switch it up here and there, but that's your rough draft. That's your like little skeleton plan. that we go from the vague to building some definition. I do a lot, I say, tell people we can't have goals unless we have values. Yes, we still do the treatment plan. We still got to do that. But, you know, you're, and you know this, I'm repeating to somebody who's well knowledgeable of this, you've got your values. What's important to you? then you set your goals based on that. Our goals align with our values. Where we struggle and where we see our clients in therapy is my behavior isn't matching up with my goals. And then we start using that should word. all over yourself. I have a dear friend of mine who I chatted with several times back in the day. We don't follow each other too much anymore because he's busy on his own journey. But he'll say don't should on yourselves and don't should on other people. Yeah, and society, right? Like, there's so many times that, ooh, that means I have to go get my son, but I don't pick him up today. So, fine, sorry. So, there's ADHD assistance there. But, you know, society, like, this is what we're supposed to have to be happy. You know, I have a client, they're like, Well, I did the house and the family and the job and like the two kids and the dog and I'm not, I'm like waiting for the happy and you're talking about like values and what's important to you. That's not even the side of the close to what society is telling you or selling you. That's what we're told, right? And so, and hopefully as a clinician and as a mom, You know, we kind of instilled that like, let's put some thought and some work and some questions into that to make sure that it feels right. And listen, over our lives, we want different things. We think, you know. things are how they're supposed to be. And I had this vision when I was married, like we're gonna have kids and we're gonna be, like this is gonna be my golden years, right? And I'm gonna be involved in the school and blah, blah, blah. And then I got divorced and I was like, I can't have any of that. And I was like, hold on a minute. Started to do my own process to really find like those sticking points and why that thought of, I can't do that. Where does that come from? because I have to be married? Well, that doesn't make any sense because what is that? I can still go to all my kid's stuff. I can still do all of these things. I just don't have a ring on my finger and another adult human with me or not with me or whatever the situation is. And I think being able to... help people slow down and really process and understand from a perspective that they're happy with or that that line up with their values. I think that's that's a huge gift I think. And that gift extends to our kids when they see it in us. Your kids already see a diff... I mean, granted, it's been a few years, been through almost three years, so something. going into my, well, yeah, probably about three years because he left right before Hunter started kindergarten. So kindergarten first and she's finishing up second grade. So. I thought it was about three years. So your kids have been there, seen the transformation. And of course, it's slower when you're there than when you come in like five years later, like, my god, your class reunions, I imagine, are interesting. haven't really had, I tried to set up a class reunion once and I just didn't get feedback and I don't know if that's a generational thing. Everybody's on Facebook and I guess people are like, well if I want to keep up with people, I keep up with people. Or if we just don't value that, the people that are a few years older than me, or if it's just my class. I mean, I don't. I don't really know. I don't know. We've never, because I graduated in 2007. So, yeah, we're coming up in a few years on 20 years, but I haven't heard boo about anything since I think our five year. And we tried to plan that, just didn't. First of all, you had a five year. We had a 10 and we didn't end up going, but we crashed it. Some circumstances I'm not going to put on the recording. But we knew crashing it, it was at a hotel bar anyway, so you can come and go as you please. And then we did attend our 20th, our 25th ended up. was 25. 2021. Now 2020. I don't know how old I am. I do that too. I'm like now I'm like like bang on mid-30s and I was like okay I'll know how old I am for a year and then after that I don't know. 27. Still. Birthday is next week. Right. Let's see. 20 years. I got 20, 30 years. Okay, so 30 years would have been mid pandemic. It would have been 2021 for me. Yeah. 2021 for me. I can't do math apparently. That's a therapist thing. That's what I say. Like I do, I do. no. My math, believe it or not, my math slows down with my ADHD meds. I mean, because you know, we were working on something a few weeks ago and I was just spitting numbers out. That was the top of my head. And you're like, you're like, you did that? I was like, yeah, that was in my head. Boom. It was 30 years ago, early pandemic in 2021 and people like nothing happened. Okay. Yeah, are we gonna do 40? Who knows? Who knows? hard with social media now. I feel like it's so, it's so different. And I think that that definitely impacts, you know, mental health and I think accountability too. you about what you're seeing in terms of, you know, obviously keep everything confidential in general, but what are you seeing is the impact of social media? I think a lot of people are thinking everything is better for everybody than it actually is. And I could say, like, you know, everything looks perfect. Like they're all smiling and they're on vacation now and they're, you know, whatever that is. Everybody was shocked when I got divorced. And I think part of that was, yeah, like obviously we were trying, everybody was crying at our wedding like it was, it was beautiful. And, and... and mental health things happened and things changed and so we got to where we were and you know I just I think that that's a big thing. of like have and have nots. You know, like I'm constantly seeing people like in relationships and getting married and like having babies and like people are just like, I'm not in that spot in my life right now and I should be because right, societal stuff. And I think that's a huge, that's a huge impact on there or being bombarded. You need to get on TikTok. and I'll end off in some other TikTok land of stuff that I don't even care to watch, whether it's, I'm gonna say it now and then my phone's gonna pick it up, but like snakes or something, or, you know, something that is just, it's a lot of exposure, it's a lot of like dopamine, like stuff that just, it, it. We just, it's a lot and even I have tried to, I do stuff for the race page and for my business page and here and there, but mostly I try to just stay away from it. And I think it helps with being able to be present and really enjoy those moments. And I think that that's where, and then the accountability piece, right? Which. I see a lot of people struggling with, I don't know if you see that. People in therapy will be like, well I'm taking all this accountability and I'm like, okay, you can take this part because this part is in your locus of control, your ability. I said, and that's not yours to take accountability for. That's something that somebody else needs to take accountability for. You know, people say, well, social media is the reason why people are cheating. No. It makes it easy. I think it makes it very easy and accessible. And people have to be able to have good boundaries, good impulse control, good communication about what their needs are. People don't know what their needs are. they think magically that I've been in this relationship for three, four, five years. My partner knows my needs already. No, they do not. Our love language is right. Yeah. But even that depends on the day. My wife and I have been married 26, almost 27 years, and we're still figuring out the rules. They're not rules. This is what works for us. Yeah, yeah. And that's the other thing, right? People in other relationships will be like, well, they do this all the time, so this is what we have to do to be successful. It's because we're not going on date nights. Well, it actually could be the little tiny bits of communication of like, hey, I need to do something for myself because I'm going to lose my mind. you know, or you know, so and so doesn't do this or so and so doesn't fight or so and so they don't do this or whatever that is when, you know, we really all look inside and see like, what is it that I specifically need, what my specific relationship, what my partner needs, what we need, because everything else doesn't have to make sense to anybody else. Beccy, do you work with couples? I do, I don't have a lot right now. I've had a couple and I love being able to work with communication with couples. It's... much. awesome. I think a lot of times though couples will come in and think, you know, we're going to take a side. Nope. He's, you know, one partner's a hundred yards that or 50 yards that way. One partner's 50 yards that way. I'm dead center, precisely dead center. And that's where the relationship is. I call that the team project and I call that the our plate, right? It's not your plate. It's not his plate. It's our plate. It's our group project and you have to come this way to the group project and you have to come this way to the group project. We use our skills. We work on because it doesn't matter who's right, who's wrong, who did this, who did that. It's you know, if we want this group project to survive, what do we both have to do? And what does that look like? So I think a lot of people get that's the and and but right? Like I have to rest because I'm more tired. I changed more diapers. I've worked harder. I've you know, we all have different capacities. So that that back and forth of more or less and who's more tired or who's less or who's done more dishes or whatever that is. Sometimes we come into the table with 10 % to put towards the project. Our partners gotta make 90. How do we get to them? Do you follow Brene Brown? see her stuff every now and then. Yeah, I do like her a lot. that's exactly, when you talked about 10 or 90%, that's a conversation she shares openly regarding her marriage with her husband Steve. He'll come home and she'll be like, I've had a rotten day, I got 20%. What can you pick up today? Or I'm at 80 % or 90%, what can I take from you today? And that kind of thing. So when we go going along that vein, you don't look at work around the house as my job, his his job. What I mean, single mom, they're all your job. Right. As much as he can take and from what I can tell, I've interacted with him a little bit on Facebook, mostly on your awesome posts. He takes on a lot. And I really. I love the support. Yes, it's very hard too for somebody who, in my whole marriage, like that was, it was me. I did everything but the dishes, but the dishes, so I will say he did that. And he would vacuum every now and then. But it was, everything else was expected and it helped, you know, Michael will come in and I'll be not feeling so great. And he's like, just go lay down. And I was like. I feel like, is this a trick? He literally never gives me any shit about like not feeling well. He's always very concerned. Cause he knows I stress myself out and I do too much. and, and what is that? Right? Is that part of being a single parent? Like, you know, am I doing more sometimes? Sure. But you know, it's, it's, he's very much, he's... He's been single for a long time, so he does that stuff anyways. So the difference is, it's at my house or his house. And we work really well together. I do what I can for the race car, which is not a whole lot. I provide some good entertainment sometimes. But you know, he's very equal. And that's really nice. And it's hard for me to learn sometimes. Sounds like it's hard for you to let him do the stuff. for sure. For sure. So, you know, one of the things, whether I'm working with an individual or a couple, I talk about, we don't help each other with work around the house. If there's something I'm trying to do that I don't know how to do or I'm unable to do, then my partner helps me. But the project is a family project. Right now we're empty nesters, so it's her and me. but it's a family project or it's a marital project or it's a house project. kids. I'm not going to watch my kids, I'm going to be a mom to my kids, I'm going to be a dad to my kids, I'm not going to babysit my kids, I'm going to be a mom to my kids, I'm not going to fulfill parental role, I'm going to be a mom. It just comes with that territory. So I think there's... unwritten things that's here and then I'm realizing we're not actually doing video so I'm actually pointing to my chest my heart when I went out back in my engineering days we had a I was one of the few married folks in the department and we had now we had two small children at the time a baby and a toddler And one of my coworkers was like, can you do this over the weekend? I said, I can't, my wife's gonna be out of town. And they're like, you have to watch the kids? I said, no, I'm the dad. being a dad. Yes. Yes. And even in therapy, I'll say, what happens if we change the words have to or should and convert them to get to? I get to do that. little work. You sound like words are important to you though from some of this conversation and others we've had. Words are though, you know, people do listen and not listen and that's where I think a lot of people get their issues from that sometimes because we don't recognize how much value and how much meaning words hold. So if we're just not paying attention and just talking like a lot of people do and then somebody's like, my gosh, you said that this way, tone. is a big thing for me. My dad, always growing up, he was like, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. And there's a lot to that. It is what you say and it is how you say it. And I think that's another skill that obviously I work with in therapy too, which is. been remiss. I'm looking at the time. You needed to leave about four minutes ago, I think. I'm sorry. Beccy, I just want to thank you for joining me today. I hope we can do it again. I am determined, maybe not tonight, but I am determined to make it up to the raceway. I will be at a recital, so if you feel like you want to, we will be at the Fulton Speedway tomorrow. Tomorrow we've got a show we're gonna see. We're gonna be downtown Syracuse. So... Do you? to find us hopefully Do I need to follow the race car? You could follow it for sure. I try to always share everything and he usually shares everything. So between, yeah, I'll send it to you. So that said, thank you again for your time. How can folks reach you if they're, I mean, I don't know if you keep a wait list, I know you're pretty full, but how can folks find you? I don't keep a wait list. I don't keep my schedule packed either. But I am on Facebook at CNY Serenity Center. I'm there. You can look me up at Psychology Today, Rebecca O 'Hara. And I do believe my website is up at CNYSerenityCenter .com. It's still a little bit of a construction zone, but there's still some helpful links on there, how to get a hold of me. Either of those ways is totally fine. It's easy enough. much. The least I can do is let you let you talk about the business a little bit. Good seeing you again by the way we haven't talked in a long time. Well thank you for having me. I will. I'm gonna get a massage. Self care, self care. Yes, yes, yes. Kids get out later. See ya. Bye bye.