From Underpaid Bar-Gigs to Seven-Figure Musician: Success Strategies for Creatives with Kris Bradley

Do you ever feel like you don’t have the connections or skillsets to really thrive as a creative? 

Do you wish it felt WAY easier to monetize your talents so that you can get on with creating to your heart’s content while getting paid VERY well for your efforts?

Whether you’re a musician, artist or creative entrepreneur, you will LOVE what this week’s podcast guest, music producer Kris Bradley, has to say about building your own success. 

Kris went from underpaid bar gigs, to building her own thriving music production company, to scaling to 7-figures within just a few years as she started to coach other artists how to succeed financially by producing your own music. 

Whether you're struggling with resistance to sales or feeling overwhelmed by multiple projects, you’ll love Kris’s down to earth strategies to thrive as a multi-passionate and highly ambitious creative. 

She shares how she manages multiple projects without losing focus, along with how following her Human Design was the path to incredibly fast income growth.

If you’re ready to take your creative-entrepreneurship game to the next level, grab a pen and take notes while you tune in! 

In a 90-minute private coaching intensive together, we’ll focus on the most important changes you can start making in your messaging to attract more paying clients into your offers. During our time together we’ll make sure your offer is actually targeted at the kinds of clients you REALLY want to be working with, we’ll tighten up your messaging (or write it from scratch if we need to), and we’ll map out a feel-good launch plan to start filling it up with amazing clients. 
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Transcript

Sarah Mac: 0:12

What's up, this is Sarah Mac, and welcome to Creative Magic Club. Together, we'll discover inspirational stories of creative entrepreneurs living out their dreams, doing the work they are most passionate about, and building wealth in magical and fun ways, while building a six-figure income. As a writer and coach, helping other women to launch their dream businesses, I've connected with so many incredible people and seen it proven again and again that you can thrive financially doing whatever it is you are passionate about. I am here to share life-changing strategies for mindset, making money and reaching more people with your work in a business and life filled with creativity, freedom and fun. Hi everyone, welcome.

Sarah Mac: 0:59

I'm so excited to introduce my guest today. We have with us Kris Bradley, who is a seasoned music producer who has carved out a successful career in the industry, securing hundreds of film and TV placements and collaborating with over 300 clients globally. She's also the creator of Produce Like a Boss, where she empowers fellow musicians by providing them with the necessary tools and knowledge to produce their own music and build successful careers. Hi, chris, thank you so much for joining.

Sarah Mac: 1:27

Hi thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here, so I'm just going to take a little moment to big you up. Chris is one of my favorite entrepreneurs. I joined, I started learning music production with her a few years ago and I've seen her business explode and I just love the way that you have built community. I love the way you've set up your business and, yeah, and I think you're an amazing teacher as well, as you know, obviously you're really amazing at what you do. So I'm super excited to interview you and I know that there are tons of people in my audience who will be super inspired not only by what you've achieved as a musician, but also what you've achieved as a business owner.

Sarah Mac: 2:08

So I think my biggest question for you is obviously I know you didn't set out to, you know, have this amazing seven-figure business like well, I don't know that, but I know you. Originally you started out as a musician and you just wanted to make money as a musician and you, you know, really did the work on your mindset and, you know, looking for other ways for you to succeed in an industry where, you know, there was just a lot of closed doors and a lot of rules that you didn't really agree with and you know you talk a lot about the mindset that was required for you to really pave your own way and create financial success as a musician. So I'm curious at what point did you realize that you kind of wanted to grow more in business beyond just producing music, and did you have a clear vision for your business or did it kind of unfold step by step? Like tell me about that part of your journey?

Kris Bradley: 3:06

Yeah, the transition from being the freelancer to becoming the that was actually doing the work right, as an expert, if you will, and then into becoming the teacher and the guide and the building the education based business. So I had been working pretty diligently for, I would say, about seven years, you know, trying to figure out how to monetize my skills as a musician and I was actually a singer, songwriter, so music production wasn't something that was immediately on my peripheral and, like you know, things revealed themselves to me as I kept seeking. And, you know, once I learned how to produce, I was obviously able to empower myself, as you know. And you know I was able to get those placements, and so things were starting to really take off. I had a roster full of clients. I was finally getting those consistent TV placements that I had been dreaming of for years right, this was not like the time that I was like, you know, I think I'll go start another business, teaching. It didn't really happen like that. It was like I felt like I had just got to the top of a mountain and there was like more mountains to climb and I could go at it alone. But then there was this moment of like I had gained all this knowledge and all this wisdom and people were asking me already in my studio like artists would come over that I'd be producing them. They'd be like how do you do that? How do you make money? How do I produce? You know, and produced, you know. And so I was already kind of teaching people and people kept asking me for more. They're like you're so good at explaining this, Like could you make a YouTube video or a course? And in one at first I was like no, I'm not a teacher, cause, like I didn't even graduate high school, let alone. I'm not like classically musically trained, like my music theory is very low. So I was like I can't be a teacher, that's not even possible. But people, I can't be a teacher, that's not even possible, but people. It happened several times in one week where people are like you must teach this, like you're so good at explaining it. And so I kind of took that as a sign, you know.

Kris Bradley: 4:52

And one thing led to another. A book fell into my lap called Launch by Jeff Walker, so I learned a little bit about the expert industry and then talk about like how, when you're following like the path, how things just kind of start unfolding like magic, right. So it was like within a week I had lunch with somebody who's like you've got to meet this guy. And this guy happened to be in Jeff Walker's mastermind and happened to know the entire PLF process. And he, like I, followed him out to the parking lot after we had a big lunch and I was like I don't have money, but I want you to be my mentor and I'll come up with the money, like whatever it takes. Can I hire you to coach me? Because I built this course, because I had already built the course. And he was like I'll just help you out, I'm retired. And so one thing led to another and I started building the business.

Kris Bradley: 5:36

But to rewind a little bit, because I kind of fast forward, the first thing I did is I actually built the course. So when people said like oh, you should teach this, I just went okay and I sat down. I'd never built a course before and I was like, well, and it was like this natural thing. I was like where are they? Where do they want to go? I laid out a bit of a hero's journey, kind of like where was I? What did I need to hear when I was trying to learn this thing Rather than try and teach it theoretically which I didn't know how to, I didn't have the knowledge to do that. I didn't look up how to teach this. I went, what did I do, which turned out to be very bass-ackwards from what a lot of other people were teaching and I just kind of I think, intuitively knew to lean into that. Now, what's funny about that is when I built the course, then I learned how to market, then I learned how to build funnels, then I learned how to launch, and all these things started to unfold, like I said, like like magic. It was. It was, it was crazy.

Kris Bradley: 6:27

And I found that as I was sharing my story about you know how I learned how to produce, people were like, wow, you're really good at copywriting. I'm like what's that? And they're like, oh, that, that's, that's copy that you write to sell. And I was like I'm just talking, I was just telling the truth. You know people like, oh, you're good at marketing and I'm like, what does that mean? And it's like, oh, you're good at communicating how what you have can provide value for others. But where it really all came from was this deep seated, like authentic expression of oh, you need me to help you. You invited me to help you. I know how to help you.

Sarah Mac: 7:01

Here's how I can express that I know how to help you. Here's how I can express that. It's so important to just underscore that I think, specifically for musicians, who do tend to struggle with like the sales part of business and like selling themselves and there's so much like it and resistance around, what we have come to associate with selling and making money is like manipulation or taking advantage of people, like a lot of people still kind of carry this baggage around making sales and around putting themselves out there and promoting themselves. And this is really, you know, I mean, I'm constantly studying sales and marketing and content and, you know, refining my skills. But at the heart of it and this is why, similarly for me, like I instantly, you know, had a lot of success in my coaching business is because I think when you come from a place of authenticity and you genuinely want to help people and you're able to tell the truth, you're able to communicate the truth of how you feel and what you want and your vision and what you know.

Sarah Mac: 8:04

That's essentially what sales and marketing is. It's just your ability to tell the truth about who you are, how you can help people and how you genuinely want to help people. And, yeah, that makes for a really good copy. So I think this is just really important to remember because sometimes we can get in our head with all of these strategies and you know funnels and complex ways that people have designed sales and marketing systems which, yeah, can kind of become overwhelming if you're not like as good as that side of things or you have resistance coming up around those things, because really, at the heart of it, it is just telling the truth and, yeah, Well, if you're in fact in integrity with what you've created, right.

Kris Bradley: 8:48

So where I see a lot of people struggling is they're making a product, a secondary thing, kind of like yeah, yeah, how do I make money? Okay, I made this thing. Now how do I sell it? And it's like well, do you think that maybe your resistance to selling is goes down to the core of your actual, authentic, true self, knowing you didn't make something that can actually get results for people? I mean, like I, I wonder, because when I've I've worked with a couple people where you know, after a couple calls, I'm like do you like what you're selling?

Kris Bradley: 9:15

Like, do you believe in it? And they've went oh, it was like this light bulb moment where I'm like yeah, like, and that's actually what made me decide to make a course on how to make courses is as much as I love marketing and selling, I love it from the magical perspective of like marketing is just communicating how what you have has value. So it's like reverse engineer just tell the truth, make something awesome. If you don't believe that what you've made is awesome, you're going to feel like a fraud. Sales is just acting like you have conviction. So if you don't actually believe that what you have can help people. You're going to feel that disconnect. So really it's like everyone's rushing to market and learn how to sell and blah, blah, blah, and it's like, okay, all the tactics, strategies, they work, but why do they work for some and not for others? Go to the foundation of it, like like you know what I mean.

Sarah Mac: 10:04

So yeah, yeah, a hundred percent, and it's a nuanced conversation, because I think sometimes it's not that people are intentionally doing that and I think a lot of it sometimes has to do with the mindset, too, of just being like willing to do that, reconditioning and seeing yourself as really valuable and seeing what you have to offer is really valuable, when maybe a lot of people have you know, told you otherwise throughout your life, particularly as as creatives and musicians. So okay, this brings me to another great question I want to ask you, like what are some of the main kind of mindset shifts that you see in musicians specifically, around you know, making that shift from under earning or not seeing opportunities to really, you know, being empowered in being able to make the money that they want to make you know, as a musician, and in the ways that you know they're feeling creatively pulled towards.

Kris Bradley: 10:59

Yeah, I think the biggest mindset shift for musicians specifically but I guess you could say it's all all creatives is it is the combination of the left and the right brain. It's actually. It's actually that taking that creative part of you that is like kind of out there, that's the magic part that's able to go and capture those ideas and be the visionary and also like understand that like nobody's coming to save you and nobody's coming to execute those ideas for you. No one's coming to build your business, no one's coming to do it Right. So you have to be able to. This is why I'm so passionate about skill stacking, because you know, this is not. We don't all have the luxury of having a huge team when we first start Right. So we have to be able to go OK, ideas, great excitement, abstract creativity, fun and then be able to go cool. I'm gonna ground into that and now activate my masculine energy and my left brain and get in there and get systems in place and organization and structure and actually treat this as somebody who's already getting paid. Before I do so, I'll just back that up with a quick story.

Kris Bradley: 12:01

I was a bartender. I was randomly playing these cover gigs. I wasn't really making great money. And when I flipped the switch in my head where I said I want to make money with my music, I didn't say I wanted to be famous, you know. I was very clear. I didn't say I wanted to get more streams or be famous on Spotify or get up. I said I want to make enough money with my music so I don't have to work a job. And so I started asking questions to the universe like what would that look like? What would that take? Boom book falls into my lap. That teaches me about habits and productivity. So now every day I'm getting up. I'm like shit. I used to sleep until 12. Now I get up at eight and I meditate and I journal, I watch an educational video about the music business and then I reach out to book some gigs, you know. And I started acting like my own personal assistant for crying out loud, you know, and that was my left brain coming in and going how can I structure this and build some foundation for you? And then being able to context switch, which I'm not going to say is easy, but it's a muscle that you can practice and be able to go great. Now that I've built all this beautiful structure.

Kris Bradley: 12:57

I call it containers for my creativity. Now I can flow into something. So the way that I like to explain this it's like think of water that doesn't have a container, like water without a cup is just kind of right. Water without anything surrounding it is flood, and it can be chaotic and it's beautiful and emotional but it's not intentional. So what happens when you get a container? Now the water takes shape and form. What happens if you were to put banks along that flood? It would become a river, it would flow with intention and it would arrive at a destination. So that to me, is marrying the right and left brain.

Sarah Mac: 13:31

That is the biggest mindset shift that any creative can have, because oftentimes they're too far in one place, in my opinion no, I think this is really really key and and I like the way how you break this down in your music production course and you're like I'm going to be do the job of my assistant and like set up all the sounds and the instruments and like set up the structure, and then I'm going to come back as the artist and play with it, you know, within those creative parameters. So I'm presuming that you, it's the same thing, it's the same thing in business.

Kris Bradley: 14:05

You can apply that with the creativity, but it's a framework, right, of just providing structure and then going instead of going. No, but I'm a creative, I don't want to do that. It's like you're doing that so that you can be creative, because the muse and your creativity actually loves boundaries. You ever notice, when you have too much freedom and you don't know what you really want, how it just becomes nebulous and then confusing and then anxious and then depressive and nothing. Nothing good comes from lack of clarity, right. So it's like I think it's a, it's one of those things that requires discipline. But then once you do it, you're like, oh wait, like wish I did that sooner, like I never used to finish songs until I came up with a system of roadmapping out my songs before going.

Sarah Mac: 15:08

I love that posts that lead to easy sales that fill your offer on repeat month after month. Do you wish it felt so easy and natural to talk about how you help people when you get interested clients popping up in your inbox? I can help you In a 90-minute private coaching intensive. Together we'll focus on the most important changes you can start making in your messaging to attract more paying clients into your offers. During our time together, we'll make sure your offer is actually targeted at the kinds of clients you really want to be working with. We'll tighten up your messaging or write it from scratch if we need to, and we'll map out a feel-good launch plan to start filling it up with amazing clients. You'll come away with powerful copy targeted at the kinds of clients who are truly ready to buy your offer and do the work with a clear, step-by-step action plan to start connecting with the right kinds of clients, tailored to your strengths and audience. No cookie cutter approaches here, plus clarity on your own story and which parts to share to attract the right people, with a list of content topics and a few solid pieces of sales content that you can start sharing to make sales right away. Clients who have done my intensive have gone on to get 20 applications within 48 hours of hitting publish on their new sales page, tripled their workshop signups, designed and launched new exciting offers, raised their offer price above five figures and signed new dreamy clients into their high ticket offer within days. To chat about how we can use our time together to start welcoming more amazing clients into your world, message me the word intensive, either over on Instagram at creative magic club, or to my email, sarah, at with sarahackcom, if you're wondering what is your most profitable offer and the angles of your story and how you know when you've landed on it, or if you would like some support in developing the pricing strategy for your ideal client, or to define your content topics to turn them into content that's consistently producing sales for you. This is the work that we do in depth inside my one-on-one three-month private mentorship, which is called High Ticket Soul Clients, and it's the place to do all this, to start celebrating those 5k, 10k, 20k plus monthly income milestones, celebrating six-figure years and, most importantly, having so much fun doing it, working with your soulmate clients. This is what it looks like inside that container.

Sarah Mac: 17:38

After our 90 minute private intensive, we're going to be in Voxer together over the rest of the three months, daily checking in to keep you focused. I always outline the clear next step priority for my clients to be making moves and taking action on, to be making money with confidence and clarity. I'm there to support you, to iron out the money mindset ish going on under the surface which inevitably always comes up during a launch. That can kind of seep in and lead to a lack of confidence and clarity in your content. I'm really going to be teaching you how to consistently fill your audience with soulmate clients, month after month, with strategic content that we'll be developing and refining together while you really launch in harmony with your energy and actually start feeling more energized rather than like you're headed towards a burnout. And this is what happens when you're really in alignment with who you are and your truth and your desires and your energy type, not only in your business and your message on your offers, but in the way that you're consistently creating clients in your business. So we'll outline a clear, feel-good sales process for your offer that's repeatable and works to consistently enroll new clients every month in a way that feels fun and sustainable for you long term in your business.

Sarah Mac: 18:48

Okay, so you're like a content producing machine, like I've seen you over the last few years. You're just like, obviously you're cranking out music in your music production, you're cranking out courses in your business, have a big bit of a bigger team to kind of support you with this now. But I see that I think you know, piggybacking off what we were just talking about. This is one way that creatives really self-sabotage is. We try and give ourselves too many projects at once and then we're just kind of like flailing and nothing's really getting completed and and then that momentum isn't happening and then that impacts our you know our confidence because we're like, oh I suck and none of these things that are working out. So yeah, give us some project management wisdom around, like what to prioritize, how to like really say no to things and like put things on the back burner. And you know what that has kind of looked like for you as you've grown your business.

Kris Bradley: 21:46

Okay, but first I have to start with the full confession that I still totally deal with all of those things. But I also know that you know I've been able to overcome them at times, but it is I'm a lifelong student, you know, when it comes to this stuff as well, and sometimes I have to stop and go take your own damn medicine, chris Bradley, because I get, I'm such a multi-passionate person and I really want to. I sometimes I just I'm like I want to eat the world, like there's so much I want to experience and do so. I just wanted to be transparent about that so that I'm not trying to act like a full blown expert. But I will give some advice based on what I've had success with, which is finishing projects Right. So, as far as my courses go like and I taught this, really, I think well, in my in the last course I made on how to make courses, which it's all about the outline, so it's like it even goes back to produce like a boss begin with the end in mind, like where are you going? Not just I have an idea. Let me start taking action, because now there's too much room for falter. There's too much room to go here. It could go there, right. And then, oh, I got another idea Right, and so we start spinning like it's trying to like.

Kris Bradley: 22:49

Launch five rockets at once is not going to get you where you want to go, but what I have found to work really good for me is to go. What am I trying to achieve? Begin with the end in mind right, you could still be an artist and go. You know, it might not even end up that way. That's not the point. It's just like goals. You set them to give you clarity, focus and the ability to move towards it with speed, right. So whenever I go let's use a course and as an example I go. What is the ultimate result I'm trying to get for this person? I reverse, engineer it from where they're at, and then I start with the macro steps and I go. What are the big major steps? It might be like mindset, organization, stuff. That's really broad. Then I break down into the micro steps.

Kris Bradley: 23:29

Now, when I work on an outline for a project, I spend more time on the outline than I do on creating the project. That is my biggest like claim to success with finishing things is I actually spend more time in the planning because what happens is, the more clear I get, and the more clear I get on that outline, the more seamless shooting the content is writing, creating and whatever I have to do, and I'm always going like does this get me to the next place, right? So I would say that for doing courses, that's a bit. That is a big one.

Kris Bradley: 24:04

And then the second thing which is really easy to remember, which I got from a friend of mine, jordan, is this acronym called WIN, w-i-n, and it's like what's important now? So when there's a million things on your plate, it's like, okay, it's really hard to prioritize, but it's not if you know what your ultimate objective is. So, if you're always holding your goals right in front of you, it's like, oh, right, now it's that I need more revenue in my business. Well then, it's really easy. Your most important thing to do is marketing and sales, but it's not always about more revenue in the business right now. It might be about health. It might be about health, it might be about relationships. So, whatever the most important thing right now is is what determines, like, what to work on next.

Sarah Mac: 24:41

I love that so important. And what would you say when, like how do you deal with that sabotage? You know, when you're like I know this and I know what I should be doing, but there's just this like really icky resistance, and you know, like, which inevitably comes up when we're stepping into that growth and you know doing something that we haven't done before or doing it, you know, finishing stronger, in a different way. How do you deal with that?

Kris Bradley: 25:05

Okay, well, here's the thing. Like it there's, and I'm learning this. Still, like I said, I'm in the process of this and that's why I think, like, my ultimate and objective in life like is beyond building successful business is to raise my consciousness, know thyself, heal thyself and I and love myself, because I know that, the more that I do, that that's the way I can be the most valuable to anybody else, right? So it's like, oftentimes, like when we go to sabotage and we go, oh, that's just resistance. Is it resistance?

Kris Bradley: 25:32

Or is that your inner guidance system telling you that this thing isn't for you and it's a thing that you're chasing because of the conditioning that actually isn't who you are? So the reason I said what I said before, that is it all boils down to know thyself and learn to listen to your heart, your intuition, to know what's truly for you and what's not. I do this through reflection, introspection. I do this through personality and branding, quizzes and tests, like reassessing my values and my needs and my strengths, so that I have that foundation from which to make decisions on. And then I assess that, like, is this thing I'm facing resistance or can I cuss on this or no?

Sarah Mac: 26:11

Yes, absolutely, yes, absolutely.

Kris Bradley: 26:12

Or is it what I call the full body? Fuck, no. Which is when I go to do something, and it's beyond resistance, like my body, my inner guidance is like this is not what you're supposed to be doing. But my conditioning might go Chris, you have to do this, you have to do this to make money or you have to do this. And it's like the only way to quiet all of that is to know thyself, is to actually get still enough to hear. It's like if prayer and manifesting is asking, intuition is listening, then we go.

Kris Bradley: 26:38

Is this resistance where I just feel like a little bit uncomfortable? Full transparency. Every time I do a fucking podcast or go live, I am so scared, I don't know why. I'm just like nervous and I'm like, oh, but I know that's resistance, right. And then there's other thing and it's like there's nothing in my body that's like, no, don't do that. It's just this uncomfortable thing that I'm like grow, go, do it, you'll get better. And then the more I do it, the more comfortable I feel. But there are some things I go to do in my business that I've mistaken as resistance push myself through to do it and then ended up burning out, only to find out it wasn't to spend time alone. Reflection and meditation right.

Sarah Mac: 27:21

Yeah, that's so key. I just want to like underline that point because I think it's really important. Number one is having a decision-making process, like knowing how you make decisions with yourself, and I find I don't know if you're familiar with human design, but that's a really great framework for that, which I love, which just acknowledges that everybody's different and everybody makes decisions in different ways and is kind of like moved and energized in very different ways. So, like you're saying, knowing what that is for you and actually building in reflection as a part of your process, so that you have the space to really get clear on. Is this, you know, just resistance because it's growth, or is this a sign to go in a different direction?

Kris Bradley: 28:01

So I love that. I love that you brought up human design, because that's something that like has been like in my like sphere for like a while, but I wasn't zooming in on it until literally recently. And you know, what's really funny is that I discovered that I am a projector, and if you would have asked me what I thought I was, I would have said like a manifesting generator, obviously Same.

Sarah Mac: 28:26

So are you also? I'm a manifesting generator. I would have assumed that about you. But yeah, tell me about your projector insights.

Kris Bradley: 28:35

Like, literally, that's so funny you brought that up because it's been the last few days, that and I'm kind of going huh, okay, and I'm like, where does that make sense for me? Because I am such, I have so much output and I am so prolific, if you will, and I feel like I have a full sacral chakra. Come on, I'm like I have all this creativity, but here's the thing. I went okay, what's the like the most successful, like most downstream, like things that have ever happened for me. Produce Like a Boss is a prime example.

Kris Bradley: 29:00

I got a very clear invite to that business. It's like like I said, three people in one week were like, please make a course. It was so like pulled out of me and it was. I'm getting chills all over my body right now and kind of emotional, to be honest. It was like the most work I've ever done, that felt the most effortless in my whole life, and I went, oh my God, like and I was invited and I was the guide.

Kris Bradley: 29:25

And then I think of the things that I've kind of forced and I've pushed and how they didn't work and when I deplete myself and when the difference between how I can work like 12 hours and feel like it was two, or I can work three hours and feel like it was 20. And it's like, oh, where's that coming from? So, yeah, my biggest insight is going when did you get the invitation? And also being able to recognize when was the energy you were feeling in your body your own, or something you were amplifying from someone else and I was like, oh so I don't even get to pretend to like know much more about it than that, cause I'm still in like the preliminary stages, but I'm I'm very compelled to dive deep and hard on this because, like I said, the know thyself part of me has been awake for a very long time. But the human design aspect is a new territory I'm crossing into.

Sarah Mac: 30:11

I love that. Yeah, that was some really powerful questions for projectors out there, so I hope if you're a projector, you took note on those. Well, I could keep talking to you for hours and hours and hours about all of this, chris, but thank you so much for coming and sharing your wisdom and, um. Please let us know, like, where can people find you? What have you got going on? Um? But yeah, where can people learn more about what you're up to?

Kris Bradley: 30:34

yeah. So, uh, produce like a boss is uh alive and well and it's the company that I'm the founder of. We're still serving musicians, teaching them how to produce from home and how to monetize their skills. But I've also launched a new podcast called Create with Chris Bradley on YouTube so that I can kind of expand to go beyond music and talk about other things creativity, spirituality, mindset, business. It's kind of like my way of letting my Renaissance woman come out and out and say, okay, I got more to talk about besides just music and that's going to be. That's on youtube and spotify and all places that you can find podcasts.

Sarah Mac: 31:09

So yes, so exciting. Definitely check that out. Chris is amazing in business so, yeah, everyone has a lot to learn from her and if you're into music production, definitely check her out out. She just like makes it so simple. It's really empowering the way that you teach and, yeah, I'm a big fan. So, thank you for everything that you do, chris. Thank you everybody for listening. If you know someone who could benefit from this conversation, please share it with them and we'll see you next week. Bye, bye, thanks. For more inspirational content, head over to my website withsarahmackcom, and please support the show by liking, commenting and subscribing.