This is the terribly unablivious podcast.
Speaker 2:Yep, I said it before and I'll say it again Life moves pretty fast you don't stop and look around once in a while?
Speaker 3:You could miss it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is Brad's fucking theme song. I can't play the rest of it because we'll get copyrighted. I didn't hear the first bit because that's good, we're starting because Got a boy back home in Michigan and it tastes like Jack when I'm kissing him.
Speaker 2:So I told him that we were all going clubbing in Chicago. Dude.
Speaker 1:I'll see, oh come on. Such a, such a banger.
Speaker 3:Do you remember that conversation? Which one? The one where I was, like Martin's, having a meltdown. He was going to Chicago.
Speaker 1:I yeah, you didn't tell me about the Chicago part. You told me it was melting down. Do you want to tell the audience who's here with us today first, before we just go on to talk and shit about him? It's another one. Yeah, it's a fresh app. It's Martin when we're in the studio we do studio things. The elevator. We're going to Chicago. Everyone you want to talk about all the stress that's been going on your life, Martin.
Speaker 2:I can't.
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean we may as well start there. Brad brought it up. He threw it into the bus. Maybe he needs some bad therapy, Bad at love yeah.
Speaker 2:I did better help for A little over a year, did you yeah?
Speaker 1:Did you have the same therapist or was it somebody new?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I stuck on the same therapist I like.
Speaker 3:Are you having stress in your life?
Speaker 2:Everyone has stress.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you should shake it off.
Speaker 1:Oh, that was a. What a fucking intro.
Speaker 3:You should shake it off. You know what you should do. Is that a right hook or is it an uppercut? You should get over it and move on. You know what you should do you should be resilient?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm OK.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So for the audience that doesn't understand all the back log of information here, mr Joe Rogan had an episode recently with a Miss Abigail Shrier. The Shrier, shrier, let's say Shrier, ok, investigative journalist, columbia Oxford Yale.
Speaker 3:She has those three on her resume, by the way.
Speaker 1:That's great. Got into some. Got into some deep thoughts. That Nothing. Deep thoughts that yeah, they're a little superficial. Basically, that therapy is making the next generation weak. Is that is that? Is that a good?
Speaker 3:summarization Brad, there's not a good summarization of irrational thought. Ok but there's a link to this particular clip.
Speaker 1:Yeah we play a lot of copyrighted material, but we're not going to risk the Joe Rogan because that's definitely going to get kicked off.
Speaker 3:It's about 14 minutes. They cover that. You get the real general gist of what she's talking about, and she has. This is in her new book called Bad Therapy.
Speaker 1:It essentially says good cognitive therapists will remove people from the rumination of their problems, versus bad therapists will just sit and talk to you about your problems over and over again. It's a little.
Speaker 3:You know what? That? That's probably a nice way. That's a nice way of putting it, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not trying to get kicked off the podcast spectrum quite yet, oh well, I'm just like. Joe Rogan was like the Dom, it was like the Sopranos and he was like the king. He just whacked us. We got whacked all of a sudden. Buzzsprouts like you're off, you're gone.
Speaker 3:Do I not have to listen to another episode like?
Speaker 1:that it wasn't good. It was really bad. It wasn't his best.
Speaker 3:This. This just started the other day, because this is a as we're talking about it. It's only a couple days old, I think, and so it popped up on one of my feeds, and it was a two or three minute clip initially, and so I, you know, I started listening to it and I didn't get 60 seconds into it and got all kinds of cringe factors going from it.
Speaker 1:And so I'm really sent it to Dylan. Case of the yuck.
Speaker 3:Case of the yips and what were those yucky yips?
Speaker 2:be I, because we I mean obviously we can't share.
Speaker 3:Watch. Watch the video and then listen to this. And and I tried to write notes down just so that I could kind of follow along with her. It would be much easier to do a video analysis of this, as, as they play it and then we respond to it, but we're not really quite some solid terms of what I mentioned in the video is like never, which is is is a difficult word, because I mean when even children say the word oh, I'd never do that.
Speaker 2:It's like that doesn't pan out right.
Speaker 3:Maybe, we have an episode on therapy or denied that there were any.
Speaker 1:We're going to get. But isn't that like Jiffy Lou, like we?
Speaker 3:were totally off the edge of that much.
Speaker 2:Well, it's their business to change oil.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Can you just stop it? Exactly, so like okay, it's listen to it or don't.
Speaker 3:Whatever you know, these two didn't listen to it.
Speaker 1:The idea we bits pieces. This is that false dichotomy. And you versus them. Bullshit that. You fucking it is it is.
Speaker 3:It is me that had to listen to the entirety of this thing. I am sad right now. That's right, I am sad. Thank you, jordan. Listen to the, listen to that logical fallacy episode before you watch that 14 minute clip and see if you can pick some things out, because she hits quite a few game five of them. So after getting the, the initial cringe factor, of course, I go to the Google.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, what did you find in the Google? What's this about?
Speaker 1:the Schmugelsphere.
Speaker 3:Yes, I did come up with some website listed, like all of her appearances on media, or is it? Is it in the notes? I don't know if I kept that one, but you can kind of guess the Let me guess.
Speaker 1:Okay, you guess.
Speaker 3:Martin, guess he was really wrong. He was like Oprah.
Speaker 2:I didn't say Oprah.
Speaker 1:I didn't say, oprah Does she still do her favorite things Does she still do her favorite things. I did say I did say Kelly Clarks.
Speaker 2:I said, uh, Newsmax. And I said, uh, what is it? O A N news.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know. That is Okay, so that right you go. It's not on cable news. Jordan Peterson Yep, only one time. That was about when she was talking about those, the transgender, one irreversible damage, the transgender craze seducing our daughters. Hmm, keep going down that road. You can do it.
Speaker 1:That's all I got, really, the Daily Wire, oh, okay, well, prager, you Jordan Peterson's on the Daily Wire, yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, but the Joe Rogan, this is our first appearance on this one, so then. So then I do that little, you know echo chamber thing where I'm like the Rubin report, oh bitchapiro, she bought a bitchapiro several times, trigger Nometry, which they're all they're all the Daily Wire.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 3:So now she's written a new book called Bad Therapy. And why this?
Speaker 3:the subtitle is why, the kids aren't growing up. So in this 14 minute clip we start with things. Like you know, kids need to suck it up and they need to shake it off. And no one tells you to shake it off anymore. And it's not just that parents don't say it, it's that nobody says it. And as me and Martin are sitting here looking at it, we're like pretty sure, pretty sure, we say that a lot and I don't just say it to my kids, I say it to kids that I coach too, get up, let's go. Yeah, just in the sense that, like, if it's not a big deal, we're not making it a big deal.
Speaker 2:So Well, in reference to that, though, it's like there's also, there's also an understanding of of when you parent, and if you make it a big deal, then the child makes it a big deal. Yes, and if you know how to parent I'm not saying that people don't know how to parent, but if you test out the waters around parenting and then you see your child fall and you kind of play the dumb card and look away, they're not going to cry.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes. So I remember my one of my friends was telling me example of a professor that they took that to the extreme, so like when their kid was bleeding he's like mom, I'm leaking. So, yes, you do. You do have some influence on your account. I'm not joking.
Speaker 1:This is true? I'm not joking.
Speaker 3:So the fact that nobody ever says these things to kids anymore. Okay, I'm going to say so. Is parenting different now than it is in the 1950s?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes, in America.
Speaker 1:Yes, and was it different in the 1950s than it was in the?
Speaker 3:1890s. Yes, yes, it's generational. Are we just doing math now? Are we going to do this thing?
Speaker 1:You don't know how to do math. I've got a math.
Speaker 2:But you can measure things.
Speaker 3:I know how to turn alerts off, it's just getting that's a window's flaw, that's a window's flaw. So basically we get into this thing where now therapy is a thing right, and we can get into some of the logical fallacies of why this may be an issue. Now kids don't know how to handle anything because all they do is now they're just going to therapy. They go to therapy all the time. Okay, so not all kids go to therapy. Kids don't go to therapy all the time.
Speaker 1:I don't know a lot of people that go to therapy. I would say 90% of the people I know don't go to therapy, and 30 years ago, therapy wasn't a thing like it is today.
Speaker 2:Right. But we also have to understand that if you have a core group of friends that is kind of like your therapy, no that's your dumpster fire.
Speaker 3:No, it's not because sometimes your friends are fucking dumb.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, that is your dumpster fire.
Speaker 2:But there's that dichotomy to that too.
Speaker 3:That's an issue.
Speaker 1:But she's just throwing down the steps, man See.
Speaker 3:You don't want to do that. Passion, more passion. Need more passion.
Speaker 1:Football is life.
Speaker 3:So she somehow gets this idea that, if so, this whole clip you will find half-true. This is why it's dangerous. You will hear things such as like yeah, kids need to toughen up. Okay, yeah, that's a thing, that's always been a thing. Like are kids too comfortable now? Yeah, sometimes they are, are they? Dealing. It's not just kids, though, it's everybody Right.
Speaker 1:Everyone's comfortable.
Speaker 3:So at one point she says she's talking with a professor, a friend of hers, and she goes these kids just they're not confident in doing anything. Like they're intelligent, they don't want to run their own experiments in college. Like they're intelligent, they don't want to even get their driver's license. You know to like they just don't think that they're capable of anything. She was in the. The millennials were like this, this group of people that could do anything, and they created all of these, these things on the internet and social media and all of this stuff, and it was just like they could do anything.
Speaker 1:And my first say was the Mark Zuckerberg era.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Mark Zuckerberg is not a millennial. He's back in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he is Okay, he's got to be. I don't know, and my first thought was don't you think that some of the problems that the kids today are facing are because of all the shit the millennials created that didn't? Does that not cross your mind one time? I'm like, oh yeah, we're dealing with a lot of, like, anxiety and depression. Okay, and, and what is new in our culture today that we didn't have 20 years ago? Can we not look at those things? Nope, not a look at those things. Let's look at therapists comments.
Speaker 2:Well, there's more people and with more people we have more revealing articles of information from the general population around, like what's happening versus historically when we had less people. There's just not enough media coverage around the less people win. Less people like like in the nineties, Even before in the eighties and seventies but then also the exposure to information as well.
Speaker 3:So that's a major part of this discussion is like if these things didn't exist.
Speaker 2:It's like they've always existed. It's just about revealing the therapy has always existed. To I would say yeah, I mean cognitive, behavioral therapy that is something that I have no authority is speaking around of when it was in existence and when what was revealed for existence. But in terms of therapy itself and understanding how the human mind works, has always been something that's been intrigued by people that wanted to study of how we operate, but not always.
Speaker 3:What do you mean by always? You're saying, oh, it's not been the modern day idea of psychology. How long has that been? Around 120 years, maybe something along those lines.
Speaker 1:So why did we used to just ring the bell over the kids, the babies, and they cry those experiments that's when modern psychology was involved.
Speaker 3:No, modern psychology had more to do with like vibrators. Look at up salivating dogs no those were two separate experiments, thank you, okay. True, though, what was the ringing of the babies? That's fine. Or like the dead cat in the trunk, what?
Speaker 2:No, that's a philosophy thing I will say, like the ringing of the babies. I'm not too sure. Maybe.
Speaker 1:Dylan might. First psychology laboratory by Wilhelm Wund in 1879 at the University of Lipsig 1879. Okay.
Speaker 2:I will say that in China what they do is they with the infants. They whistle to help them go to the bathroom.
Speaker 1:How Does that follow you all the way through grade school, middle school, high school?
Speaker 2:That is interesting yeah.
Speaker 1:They throw whistles out there just so they can all piss at the same time, so we can get algebra done. You whistle really loud.
Speaker 3:Do you pee your pants?
Speaker 2:No, I don't, but maybe I could see. Not in America, no, but maybe in China.
Speaker 1:Oh, we're going to need a whistle. Did you do that? Did you pad? Now no, oh.
Speaker 3:No, I'm nervous. Just try it out, maybe Experiment. What? What did I do? Nothing?
Speaker 1:Why do you fucking look at me like that? All right.
Speaker 3:You need to check your attitude. Thank you.
Speaker 1:You had a shit show. You were all excited this morning and then this is what you do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is what I do, or bread moody bread.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hate this podcast.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't like it either.
Speaker 1:Good, why don't you formalize it? Then Tell the audience yeah, fuck this show.
Speaker 3:So she quickly compares ruminating on bad thoughts in your own head to talking about those thoughts to therapists and that they're essentially the same thing. You shouldn't do them, because they just bring about more bad thoughts.
Speaker 1:The more we talk about the bad, the more bad happens. Yes, love it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you never get it out of your head right? And we're under the complete assumption that therapists are total jackholes that do nothing other than sit there silently and just listen to you talk about your bad shit. That's going to be our general assumption. Never are you given tools or asked questions or strategies for dealing with these bad feelings or thoughts.
Speaker 3:Right, just shove that shit down. That is the shoving the feelings down. Gets somewhere in the middle of this clip they start talking about the human spirit, and the story of the human spirit is that it is resilient and that it overcomes things, and that in the past, you know people have lost siblings. Even 100 years ago, it was very, very normal to lose a sibling at some point in your young life, right, and even you know you would lose parents at a much younger age than you lose them today, even though people still lose them. And the story is that you just continue on with life and you're able to have a family and lead a good life, and you just got to keep going.
Speaker 1:Mom Pa made spaghetti. Tonight we're talking about organ trail.
Speaker 3:I love that game. Yes, it's very much like organ trail Was organ trail eight bit or 16 bit. Please don't dis-tarrie though, because you'll die. Yeah, 16 bit.
Speaker 1:It was, it was, it was it wasn't, it wasn't 32.
Speaker 2:You want to die? I think I beat the game a couple of times. You want to die of dysentery?
Speaker 1:No, I don't want to die of dysentery. There was a some punk rock group wrote a song called dysentery gig oh, blake 182.
Speaker 2:Okay, but you got to get across the river at some stage. A couple of rivers, thank you. Ford. Ford the Ford River. Ford the River, mmm Yep.
Speaker 1:No, I don't want the Donner party. Where do you get so mad? Brad Early versus the organ trail Right.
Speaker 3:I'm trying so hard to stay focused.
Speaker 2:Okay, come on, let's go.
Speaker 3:Oh.
Speaker 1:Nintendo Wii has an organ trail, fuck it.
Speaker 2:It's on. It's on Apple Arcade too 1975 is the OG so.
Speaker 3:Okay, you go, okay, I, you have some. You have some processing of this Dylan.
Speaker 1:Okay, talk to me about it.
Speaker 3:You've lost a sibling. You should just continue on and push down whatever feelings you have about it into your gut hole. Do you agree with her, Dylan? And live a perfect life and, uh, I don't know, just I don't know, don't think about it, just don't think about it.
Speaker 2:So I yeah no.
Speaker 3:Is. Is what she is saying possible? Yes, 100%. People go. People, uh, compartmentalize things and don't think about things all the time and continue on with their lives like shit never happened, or they try to forget about all of the bad shit that ever happened to them, and maybe I'm just not going to think about how that could unconsciously affect any of my behavior for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's fucking bonkers, because like yeah, you go. Like World War II, the returning vets that came back Got on with their lives.
Speaker 3:They shook it off, martin.
Speaker 2:I yeah, yeah, that's you know, you know the fact that a lot of those guys came back and they weren't right, but it's not really talked about my grandpa was a POW and he had a family and clearly couldn't have lived a better life whatsoever.
Speaker 1:Other than the fact that all of you are fucked up.
Speaker 3:No one says that. So what she's saying is like it's the, it's the opposite of, of, like that continual improvement, right. Or it's like no, no, no, no, these guys managed. Why? Why can't we just keep managing? I really don't think about.
Speaker 2:I mean, how did they manage through alcohol?
Speaker 1:Sometimes, and zero grace, and this is my I. I didn't deal with my sister's death for a very long time and my I was very numb to the world for a very long time. The highs weren't very high, the lows weren't very low. I did that for longer than I'll care to admit, and my level of patience, my level of grace for the common person, the really the only, my only saving grace was the fact that my parents ingrained in me that I had to be polite, so much that that was really the only thing that stopped me from being an absolute shit head in the world was that you needed to be respectful.
Speaker 1:I look at it as like a video game, like um health bar and it's Brad, you've used this analogy before. It's the people that are driving home at five o'clock, totally cracked out of their mind from stress, that they're upset when somebody accidentally turns in their lane without a blinker and it's like I'm going to murder that person. They're the worst human being in the world, fuck that guy. There's like it's whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa Things that really escalate again. Cars are a whole different thing. They're dangerous, they're, they're, they're a loaded weapon at the end of the day because of how powerful they are, but we've really escalated this.
Speaker 1:You have zero grace in your life. Your bars all the way at left, at zero, you're empty, whereas if you deal with your issues and you, I understand what she's saying, but she's conflating it with if you go to therapy and you ruminate and you're not willing to put in the hard work, that's a problem. You're just going to talk and in a cycle without and not actually putting in the hard work. There's something we said about that oh, I go to therapy, I go to therapy, I go to therapy. It's like okay, what are you actually doing to solve it, though? Are you actually?
Speaker 3:are you actually doing the things that you're told to be doing, or to you're doing or well and we've talked about this too, in terms of like, are you being authentic with what you're actually or you are you?
Speaker 1:lying to your therapist because you're embarrassed, which is a big thing. But if you are actually working on that, grace bar, by the way, gets bigger and bigger. It's like leveling up in a video game too. It gets longer and longer and longer and you have a. The amount of patience and grace you have for your fellow man or woman is amazing, and I think that's what I've gotten out of it. It's like I can sit here and take so much more because I've worked on the not piddly stuff, but stuff that's underlying, that shouldn't affect what I'm doing right now. So I have patience for being in the moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a long way to get to that Sorry.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, it's good.
Speaker 1:It's good. So she just grossly throws in the negative Nancy's. That are the bad apples that go to therapy and they I don't discount the fact that there are people out there that will talk about going she that talk about going specifically after therapists.
Speaker 1:She is, but she's also going, but she's a. The herd data is being fueled by the people that are the influencers not the right term the people that want attention and they're going to be like oh, I got a therapy, I do this and this and this, but those are the same people that repeat their same negative or their same toxic behavior over and over and over and over. It's like if you were actually making an effort in therapy and you were going to the appropriate place, you would be not doing that Like you, you, you, you. It again doesn't have to be a fast train to the repair or I'll say grace repairs, the wrong word but if you're doing the same shit over and over again, you're really not working on yourself and so don't. But she's using the bad data points as her data points.
Speaker 3:Definitely that part Um there's. There's also maybe we talk about Ted lasso all the time in terms of like um, there's a lot of good type of therapy involved in that show. There's also the show shrinking, which is kind of by the same. So good.
Speaker 3:So, good it's also good, but it it cuts to the point where I think she's talking about gender dysphoria at one point, cause she's also written up I'm sure what is a fabulous book on this topic and uh, you know she'll have a. She'll say there'll. There'll be like a 12 year old girl that comes in and and is talking to a therapist about gender dysphoria. She goes the therapist never say like you don't have gender dysphoria, because that is scientifically proven to only happen in young boys. And she's like the therapist, never say like you don't they. Essentially she's trying to say like they don't prescribe them specific actions.
Speaker 1:I don't think you have gender dysphoria. I will invalidate what you feel it's right there. You put it in the notes.
Speaker 3:And it's, it's. It reminds me of the part in shrinking where he kind of gets to the point where he's like you know what fuck this? I'm going to tell these patients exactly what I think, but it's what I mean you've talked about before when interpreting certain parts of books where in the context of the book it sounds reasonable and when you take it out of context it sounds a lot more like I can do whatever the fuck I want to weaponizing man.
Speaker 3:So, and the very last episode is case in point, yes, Uh, so you, you don't know how how people are going to take things. And so when it almost sounds like she wants therapists to prescribe actions for people to take, and you're like, whoa, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:That can be, yeah, so vigilante therapy she doesn't have that psychology degree.
Speaker 2:Is that correct?
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's, she has a law degree from Yale, so that that sure they're super proud of her.
Speaker 2:That's different, because there's standards and practices around patients of like how to help them understand where they need to go, and strategies of how to help improve their lifestyle. Yeah, mentally yes, and so that's yeah, that's, that's how to how to left field.
Speaker 3:So I. So at one point Rogan says well, did you talk to a therapist about this? And she goes oh, I talked to a lot of therapists. Okay, what, what was their take? What's?
Speaker 1:that.
Speaker 3:What's a lot mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's the number Does she have any data? She hasn't read the book.
Speaker 3:And why are?
Speaker 1:you bringing it to us this is because I found it today.
Speaker 3:That's why this is a half baked episode. You watched two minutes of the fucking clip that I sent to you and I'm not leading the charge here. I'm leading the charge on this clip. Okay, keep going. I fucking hate this show. So I'm. I'm doing research on. Words are hard bad therapy, right, and there are some things that uh, uh, so cognitive behavioral therapy in general, and then there are specific lines of thinking that you can, you can go down. So people have certain techniques that they can use for certain situations, right, and there are certain techniques, like anything, that uh, people will be like.
Speaker 3:Oh I wonder if we try this, I wonder, I wonder if by, like, uh, hitting a mouse with a hammer, if it'll run faster, right. And so there's these things that are created and you're like, oh yeah, maybe that's not, maybe that's not the best way to do it, but are there going to be, like some people that believe in it, even though it's a bad idea, like shop therapy? Oh, I was thinking more like religion, but but they're so. You went there, so they're.
Speaker 3:They're so that, basically, some of the the literature I found is like there's about five ish percent and this is just across the board of what is reported in the world of people that go to therapy and have worsening symptoms. Okay, now, if they didn't go to therapy with, their symptoms get worse anyways. Yeah, we don't know is what they say, we don't know. So what kind of fucking data are you basing this on? That? This doesn't work. So you're five percent. Okay, statistical analysis you guys are better at numbers than I am, just because of major. Something works 95% of the time and I'm going to write a book on why it's bad Seems legit, okay. So then they, they go into comparing. I mean, basically, therapy is like a snake oil salesman, where, once you come in, you're never going to leave, and we literally talked about this where, like our therapists are asking us are you, is this still?
Speaker 1:beneficial to you at all. Do you want to come back? Do you need to come back? Are you sure you need to be here?
Speaker 3:I mean both of ours have. So again, are there some bad therapists out there?
Speaker 2:Yes, Are there some?
Speaker 3:therapists? That are shitty people. Yes, there certainly are. So it's a new profession. Yeah, any yeah.
Speaker 1:It's the, and I love where it's a generalization.
Speaker 2:You put.
Speaker 1:You put some moral high ground on somebody. It's like, oh, there's one person in this entire group of people and they're they're supposed to be held to a higher standard. You're like whoa.
Speaker 3:She then goes, goes through and gives examples of why anxiety and depression are good for our, for our lives. You know, and her example was if I didn't have anxiety, like I wouldn't have you know I had anxiety coming on the show and if I didn't have anxiety, I wouldn't have prepared and been ready to do the show. Yes, that's anxiety. It's not the same as I have anxiety all the time about fucking everything and I have no idea why. No, those two are the same. Sure Pressure.
Speaker 1:Invited. There's pressure, did yeah, there's some, there's some conflation there, yeah. So you have anxiety about a forward thing your career's on the line here. So you have anxiety about some of this, moving the needle forward Right, whereas other people have anxiety where they're laying in bed all day because they have something. That means they have no concept of what is keeping them down, but the whole world's imploding for no reason.
Speaker 3:But like depression, you know you, you have a breakup and you feel sad, and then the depression You're really sad to see that. Yes, thank you, jordan. You're really sad to see, you know, that that relationship go away and and then you get over it and that and that feeling is, is an accomplishment and without that sad feeling you wouldn't have the accomplishment feeling of getting over it. You know clearly that's the same as clinical depression.
Speaker 1:She's putting revenge sex in the same category as clinical depression.
Speaker 3:She's putting a lot of things in the same category as a lot of things. So that's rough. Then then Rogan is like oh, it's like the Jiffy loop, you don't have to change it every 3000 miles. But we're in the business of changing oil. And she goes yeah, you know it, but eventually you do, you do have to change your fucking oil. You do have to change your oil, I mean, so you have to change every 3000 miles.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:Dylan, how often did you change oil in your Jeep? Never. Okay, he doesn't have a Jeep, not anymore. Jokes on you.
Speaker 1:Martin.
Speaker 2:Set that up. No, that's true.
Speaker 3:I'd still have my Jeep so by her, by her analogy we're the Jeep and if we don't change the oil we'll be fine, Until our engine blows up. Yeah, Shit hits a fan. I mean that that actually works out really well. So what happened when the engine blows up you? Die, you know what, and everybody else that loves you. They got to get over it, oh geez.
Speaker 3:What it's not my idea. So off off of the Jiffy loop thing. Then she's like off off of the Jiffy loop thing. Then she starts talking about how you know therapists don't turn like if you go to a therapist and you're like, hey, I'm feeling this way she goes. They don't just say like and I'm not gonna work with you, which is false. For one, like therapists, all the time We'll say like this is not something I specialize in, I'm not gonna you need to see. So yeah, like this, let me refer you out. So one, they do say that. And for two, like if it's something that they think that they can help you with, why are they gonna turn you away? So it'd be like you know what people that go in bleeding to the ERs, like the doctors like never turn them away. Like yeah, no shit, that's their fucking job. If that's what they do, there's yeah. So if they can help you, they're gonna help you.
Speaker 2:Responsibility to care one thing and also but there's an oath to that as well the to that part, yes, so she.
Speaker 3:She leans Kind of hard on the fact that, like the what we typically think about anxiety and depression are, they don't constitute real problems.
Speaker 1:So it's fictitious. Are we in the matrix? I don't know, dude, just a which pill are we taking here? I don't remember we, I thought we went through this one time.
Speaker 3:Then she goes into the. The goal of therapists is to treat the least problematic patient for the longest period of time, because that's that's the best benefit for them, because they don't have to work very hard and they will just keep them coming back, and coming back, and coming back. Okay, and she says, she says of one therapist as she talked to you she's like he said that I Set a number of sessions from the get-go. This is for Gen.
Speaker 2:Z's right we're talking about, or anyone. She doesn't qualify.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm. Okay, that's interesting she is. She is qualifying that like Gen, not even Z. There's like a new generation to you, right, like alpha, I think, generation alpha, all I can think about is those are like the little kids Wayne's world when you say a new generation.
Speaker 3:I think of some of the ways that she's Reasoning in terms of the way that people thought about COVID. They're like, if we just don't, if we stop testing for it, like the numbers will go down. Just thank you, captain. Obvious, just like there were. No, there was no AIDS epidemic before we knew what the fuck AIDS was. That doesn't mean it didn't exist. It was there. Yeah, didn't have a name for it. So how is this? Different you guys can me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you fucking look at a man, yeah.
Speaker 3:There's just. There's a lot, so we talk about nuances all the time. There's a lot of fucking nuances that go into this problem, yeah there was some broad sweeping generalizations.
Speaker 2:So we don't have a fentanyl issue.
Speaker 1:What has? What has changed? We have a cocaine issue. It's just being cut with fentanyl.
Speaker 3:What has changed in in our children's minds in the last 25 years? Any major developments happen in terms of humanity. Tell the tubbies that could be wildly different for Growing minds her um, but I know I can't think of any. Okay, yeah, no, zero, no, nothing.
Speaker 2:I don't know why we just flew.
Speaker 3:No, that was a long time ago 1908 yeah, yeah. I mean basically, the things that we encounter today are exactly like they were in 1908 and we should think about them as such 1918, 1920, bummer.
Speaker 2:That was our chasm, by the way. Yeah, but context-wise, like, of course, the kids that are growing up today, their exposure to different experiences are Very much different than our experiences growing up, and what they have in terms of tools and materials, yes, so wild.
Speaker 1:There was four waves of Spanish flu. Oh my god, why can't we talk about this? 500 million people, about a third of the global population, and Four successive waves. Deaths ranged from 17 million to 50 million. I'm having a fake depressive episode right now good.
Speaker 3:I know it's not real, I'll just go for it. Let's shake it off.
Speaker 1:Why is that? It's fascinating so.
Speaker 3:They. They kind of touch on some things and I'm a bit disappointed in the non pushback In the comments from the host, mmm, it just Like all three of us listen to it and almost every other sentence you're like hit the pause button, but wait, what about this? And he doesn't do that. Why? Why would he do that? Why would he do that?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:He's an interviewer. He's not a listener.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's making a shit ton of money right now. He used to be pretty good at it. Yeah, he seems to be less so I don't want to. The objective is the wrong term, but he seems to be less pushy than he used to be. I Don't. I don't listen to a constant cost to use your work. You know where's your Show your work he's. He's less show your work than he used to be yes.
Speaker 1:I, I Think. So he used to be like what words I say, that I, I, yeah. I was a massive listener of his yeah and I Agree. I used to enjoy it because he, it was always show your work, show your work, show your work, show your work.
Speaker 3:And not only that, but you had, you had a lot of both sides of you know, and so maybe somebody else will come on. That is. That is very Opposite. This lady's opinion, mm-hmm, I don't, I don't know if it's, if it's really going that way. It so at one point she's talking about you know somebody. Somebody drives by their old high school and you know they. They claim they can't take that way anymore because it gives them PTSD of when they were bullied in high school. Should have been a nerd and I'm really sad.
Speaker 3:And and he's like yeah, but I mean he goes, I I get like angst. I had remember getting anxiety driving by my high school, like after I was out and just you know she, what is that? She's like that's a bad memory and I'm like okay.
Speaker 1:Are we just generalizing? This is a bad memory.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what can we get some more definitions on, like what is teasing?
Speaker 2:bullying memory, ptsd going on.
Speaker 3:She's like that's just a bad memory that you know you're not handling very well, and in my head I'm like hey, you know what helps with that fucking therapy.
Speaker 1:If you don't remember, maybe you've suppressed so far that you need to really just untuck that bad boy.
Speaker 3:Oh my god it's, it's a lot. They talk about it Again, modeling it all up.
Speaker 1:They also talk about really good for you, what you?
Speaker 3:know why are we not talking about like you know, going outside or like exercise, you know exercising is great for your mental health? Like, yeah, thank you, fucking no shit. What are we in 2024,?
Speaker 3:okay, I think we're aware of that. So you're telling me that you're not gonna be able to find any person that Eats well, works out, has a job and has some sort of major Depressive or anxiety or any other type of issues going on? Not, none of those, you know. I think those people exist. If they do exist, isn't the problem a little bit more than what you're leading it on to believe Possibly? So then they go on to. Well, you know, we have a luxury. We have a luxury to think about the things that we do think about in this country. If you were in, you know, if you were in like a war-torn country, you wouldn't, you wouldn't be thinking about anxiety in the same way as we think about anxiety. You would have actual anxiety because you would have bombs going off all the time. And I don't really know that, just to the sense that, like, those little things won't help you out, like you know, like going outside isn't gonna cure that, so like that's a real problem.
Speaker 3:Like yeah, that that is a real problem. But then Rogan goes on to say I say this all the time like the worst thing that's happened to you is the worst thing that's happened to you. So whether you got in a minor fender bender or you just lost a parent, like whatever, the worst thing is that's happened in your life. That's what you're dealing with and it's like okay. So didn't you just validate that point for everybody?
Speaker 1:No, Relativity man Relativity.
Speaker 3:So I mean, I think about this, going to therapy and like are my problems as bad as other people's problems?
Speaker 1:It's not just equals in C squared man.
Speaker 3:Does shit that happened to me as bad as the shit that happened to other people? No, it's not. It's just that it happened to me and I want to improve it, or or bury it, I mean whatever. Well, that's what she's saying.
Speaker 1:You bury it, fuck it, it doesn't matter, you bury it, though Actually it is equals MC squared because you bury it. It's fucking exponentially more powerful than it is if you just deal with it.
Speaker 3:Not if it's not a real problem. What they go find themselves, they shit don't fly on my side. When I graduated college, I couldn't tell my father that I'm gonna go to Europe to go find myself. What do you mean? Go find yourself? I Found you. You're right here at my house when you gonna go. It's different you want to see you Go look in the mirror, you got no job. It's different. So there there is a sense of it just is all of these things we've talked about like, do we need to self-reflect?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:She's saying like no, don't do that at all, because then you get stuck in your head and that's bad for you, to a point like if you're only in your head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I disagree with that. You got it. You have to do that, you have to improve. But also, how do you?
Speaker 3:So she's taking the people that have like clinical depression, that are not going to work, that are not talking to, people that are removing the help spells from everything and they're in their own head for a Long period of time. Is that healthy? No, no, it's not healthy. And she's saying that's what it's like talking to the therapist.
Speaker 1:What she makes, some large leaps. Large, it's quantum. Yeah, it's a little, so I just it's a little cringy yeah.
Speaker 3:Little major again. Are there certain things like does going outside improve your mood? Yeah, yeah, it does. Just let's do a whole podcast about forest bathing the other day, which is also a Japanese thing. What's forest bathing?
Speaker 1:I've heard about mudding, but forest bathing, forest bathing, okay, one, what is forest bathing? Two, what is mudding?
Speaker 3:There's a lot of different terms for that. What?
Speaker 2:No, muddy, it's from suits.
Speaker 3:But yes, I can't think of the Japanese word. But muddings, the actual physiological changes when you spend time in specific areas and you watch the trees start to anything Okay.
Speaker 1:So I got Lord of the Rings, forest mudding or any snow muddings.
Speaker 2:Different it's you go to more of a like a spa and they have a tub full of Specific type of mud and you so I'm from Jennifer would call it grounding, oh yes, where she she likes to garden or just digging the dirt. No, no, no, you lay in the mud.
Speaker 3:I know what that is but, but there is a Very visceral feeling of like connecting back with the earth.
Speaker 1:I live in the clouds. I don't hang out with peasants on earth.
Speaker 3:God, we talk about practice, so Listen to that, you know. Check the book out from the library, don't buy it. What bug.
Speaker 1:Her book. We're not suggesting this book.
Speaker 2:Oh Jesus.
Speaker 1:Christ man. Don't tell them check it out. Tell them look at the clip.
Speaker 3:Okay, so to In ending of this, like I mean we've got links up the ass over here.
Speaker 1:I want therapy causes harm. Yeah, what is this? Yeah, it's from 2008. This is wow.
Speaker 3:Oh, what I? The list of of available things was not long for this list of harmful therapies.
Speaker 1:What do we have for harm with the third harmful therapies?
Speaker 3:Yes now you're just reading and you're not saying any about loud, which is not helpful.
Speaker 1:Against the backdrop of a parent ignorant. Scott Lennon fell, the professor of psychology at Emory University in America. But professional sensitivity is the one side. Last year and use current research findings to propose a preliminary list of potentially harmful therapies, a work in progress to be revised and refined. Lennon fell 2007. Okay, point me where I'm supposed to go.
Speaker 3:If we're going to look at a list of treatments that are effective, then it makes sense to Look at treatments that could be potentially harmful. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, it's almost like we do that in the medical profession too, mm-hmm where you shouldn't leave like a Scalpel inside of a body. You can I mean you could. It's not the best treatment, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Do people do it on purpose? No, maybe never know what was that thing they used to do that they thought was a good idea, a little bottom.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's it.
Speaker 1:You guys seem all too familiar with it.
Speaker 3:I Don't remember. I have asked for one.
Speaker 1:What was that, isn't they? They separated your frontal lobes from your cortex. I don't know, they took out a chunk of some, but they would just like take the knife and they were just severed the nerves between them. Yeah, because they would it would reduce your nasal cavity or Texas.
Speaker 3:All about your sensory and it was one doctor that did a pretty large majority of those, I believe. Yeah, if you want to know more about lobotomy is check out last podcast on the left. They've got a good series on lobotomy's. It's pretty bananas. That's crazy man so, but To end this, I think why. What would be a good cause to write a book like this, joe?
Speaker 1:rugged. What, what? Yeah, it's an interesting point.
Speaker 2:It's not interesting thinking well, I mean what I mean towards. That is like what, what are you trying to inform? Are you trying to inform and?
Speaker 3:So, are you trying to misinform?
Speaker 2:Why are you trying to inform? Is this something that needs to be? The light needs to be shed on.
Speaker 3:So that the overarching point of the book is that Maybe most people don't need therapy. True, true, wait thoughts more just opinions. Maybe it is. This leads me to hand lens razor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, never attribute to malice that which is Adequately explained by stupidity. Yes, so I? What? Oh you? You think this is malice or do you think this is just stupidity? I?
Speaker 3:No, I think this is. This is tending towards malice.
Speaker 1:Hmm, why, though, what happened in her life? I?
Speaker 3:Don't know if it's, I don't know that it's specifically about her life, but it seems a lot more towards and they do talk about social emotional learning as a Kind of trigger to this this new therapy, new age of therapy, again, social emotional learning, something that's New, curriculum, wise, but not new necessarily as a as a human thing, by any means, but in terms of how we're incorporating it into our daily lives. And that seems to be a real threat, for some reason, to a large group of people. And what is therapy? Do well it? It helps you connect with what's going on in your own life and how you engage with people and how you think about things and how you think about how other people think about things.
Speaker 2:Well, provide you those strategies.
Speaker 3:Yeah, lean into and you know, and so you have to ask yourself why would a large group of people not want you to have those strategies, taxes? Why would a large group of people not want you to be self-reflective?
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, may have some more.
Speaker 3:That's a good question.
Speaker 1:It's fun though, because that's a whole other topic. I didn't know it. Okay is that all we had? We just, we just bashed Miss Abigail Shrier for 53.45 seconds. She wrote the book. We didn't read it. We took 14 minutes of her. You want me to do it. We shredded her you want me to do it, are we?
Speaker 3:I'm just asking I'm doing all our kinds of bad stuff right now. Are we looking at just taking it for the team? Oh, look at Brad, he's just going muddin.
Speaker 2:Hey, it's it's good therapy.
Speaker 1:Proud of you I had first first step is acceptance.
Speaker 3:He hasn't even watched it.
Speaker 2:You're still here. It's over, go home.
Speaker 3:Oh.